New Jersey Gas Tax Increase

[jeffandnicole]

Someone recently said to me in a conversation about this that full serve is actually cheaper than self serve because the lower insurance charged for having trained professionals pump your gas offsets the extra expense of hiring the attendants. This argument sounds fishy to me. Is there any truth to it?

Pumping gas is VERY difficult and complex. 

So complex, any idiot can do it.  Oh, wait, I see it all the time here in Illinois, people pumping their own gasoline without a gas jockey.  Oh, the horror!  Oh, the humanity!

/And I'm sincerely hoping jwolfer meant his comment as snark.

Wow.

[1995hoo]

....

And yeah, it's not convenient at all to have to deal with a jockey.  I intent to never refuel in NJ again if I can avoid it on that count alone.  It was one thing when it was cheap.  It's another when the price is nearly the same as everywhere else.  There are others on this forum who wouldn't get gas in NJ even when it was cheap because of the self-serve ban.  If they care so much about having full serve, make it mandatory for gas stations to offer it on at least half the pumps.  Don't take away the choice from the rest of us.

I'll concur with the text in boldface. About ten years ago I was up in the Trenton area for a month on business and I drove across to Pennsylvania to buy gas (yes, I paid the toll to do so) because I won't go to full-serve stations unless it's an emergency, partly for reasons similar to the ones you've already mentioned elsewhere in this thread. Annoyed me all the more when the first station I came to in Pennsylvania was full-serve only....the guy was surprised when I said "forget it" and drove away.

I can think of other places I won't buy gas, but those are for price reasons (crazy to buy gas in DC when it's substantially cheaper right across the river in Virginia, for example).

On the other hand, I know someone from Southside Virginia (she lives in McKenney, for those who know the area) who refuses to pump her own gas, regardless of how much cheaper it may be, and will drive 40 miles out of the way if that's necessary to find full-serve.

[US 41]

I'd never even been to a full service gas station before until last month. East of Sault Ste Marie there is an Esso station near the road that goes to St Joseph Island and it was full service. I was pretty surprised when a guy came up to my window and asked me how much gas I wanted.

[PHLBOS]

Once upon a time, full-serve was all there was regardless of location.  I only started seeing self-serve stations pop up in (at least eastern) Massachusetts was during the early-to-mid 70s (as a kid while riding w/my parents).

[jeffandnicole]

....

And yeah, it's not convenient at all to have to deal with a jockey.  I intent to never refuel in NJ again if I can avoid it on that count alone.  It was one thing when it was cheap.  It's another when the price is nearly the same as everywhere else.  There are others on this forum who wouldn't get gas in NJ even when it was cheap because of the self-serve ban.  If they care so much about having full serve, make it mandatory for gas stations to offer it on at least half the pumps.  Don't take away the choice from the rest of us.

I'll concur with the text in boldface. About ten years ago I was up in the Trenton area for a month on business and I drove across to Pennsylvania to buy gas (yes, I paid the toll to do so) because I won't go to full-serve stations unless it's an emergency, partly for reasons similar to the ones you've already mentioned elsewhere in this thread. Annoyed me all the more when the first station I came to in Pennsylvania was full-serve only....the guy was surprised when I said "forget it" and drove away.

Sounds like you were in Morrisville, PA. I think all the gas stations there are full serve for some reason.

[cpzilliacus]

I can think of other places I won't buy gas, but those are for price reasons (crazy to buy gas in DC when it's substantially cheaper right across the river in Virginia, for example).

Though I have found that pump prices for fuel in Northern Virginia are usually several cents cheaper in Prince William County, because fuel sold there is not subject to the NVTC "stealth" sales tax that is collected to subsidize WMATA trains and buses (since there is no WMATA service of any kind in Prince William County).

[roadman]

Once upon a time, full-serve was all there was regardless of location.  I only started seeing self-serve stations pop up in (at least eastern) Massachusetts was during the early-to-mid 70s (as a kid while riding w/my parents).

When I got my learner's permit in late 1977, I recall the mix of stations in the Lynn and Salem areas was about 60% full serve and 40% self serve.

[1995hoo]

I can think of other places I won't buy gas, but those are for price reasons (crazy to buy gas in DC when it's substantially cheaper right across the river in Virginia, for example).

Though I have found that pump prices for fuel in Northern Virginia are usually several cents cheaper in Prince William County, because fuel sold there is not subject to the NVTC "stealth" sales tax that is collected to subsidize WMATA trains and buses (since there is no WMATA service of any kind in Prince William County).

Often true, but unless I have a reason to be in Prince William I don't bother. I'd use enough gas roundtrip to cancel out the savings.

[epzik8]

I think the reason people from outside of New Jersey (and Oregon) are afraid to refuel in New Jersey is because of the long lines they see at the Turnpike Sunocos. At least that's what keeps me from doing so.

[jeffandnicole]

I think the reason people from outside of New Jersey (and Oregon) are afraid to refuel in New Jersey is because of the long lines they see at the Turnpike Sunocos. At least that's what keeps me from doing so.

On busy travel periods, yes. It doesn't help when they don't have all the pumps open (a big issue for me because of the full service). But, you're not going to see those long lines until you pull into the service area, and if you need gas, chances are you're not going to get to the next state without fueling up.

[vdeane]

True, but one experience like that, and I imagine someone might start refueling in PA/DE/NY near the border specifically to make sure that doesn't happen again.

[cpzilliacus]

I think the reason people from outside of New Jersey (and Oregon) are afraid to refuel in New Jersey is because of the long lines they see at the Turnpike Sunocos. At least that's what keeps me from doing so.

An advantage of having a vehicle that runs on Diesel fuel.  There's seldom a queue at the Diesel pumps at the New Jersey Turnpike's Sunoco stations, though sometimes the service is a little slow.

[bzakharin]

I think the reason people from outside of New Jersey (and Oregon) are afraid to refuel in New Jersey is because of the long lines they see at the Turnpike Sunocos. At least that's what keeps me from doing so.

An advantage of having a vehicle that runs on Diesel fuel.  There's seldom a queue at the Diesel pumps at the New Jersey Turnpike's Sunoco stations, though sometimes the service is a little slow.

NJ allows self serve for diesel, though the Turnpike doesn't have it.

[jwolfer]

I think the reason people from outside of New Jersey (and Oregon) are afraid to refuel in New Jersey is because of the long lines they see at the Turnpike Sunocos. At least that's what keeps me from doing so.

An advantage of having a vehicle that runs on Diesel fuel.  There's seldom a queue at the Diesel pumps at the New Jersey Turnpike's Sunoco stations, though sometimes the service is a little slow.

My friend in NJ drives a VW Jetta TDI...at one time when there was a gas shortage...probably post Sandy.. He had some dude get all pissed off at him and the attendant for allowing him to "cut" in front of all those eaiting for gas... The other driver moron did not understand diesel is not the same as gasoiline

LGMS428

[slorydn1]

To back up what I believe vdeane was trying to say, when I would travel to Long Island to see family, I would quite often stop at one of the NJTP service plazas to get gas even though I could easily make it to my brother's house on the gas that I bought in northern VA, Southern MD. I did this so that I would have enough gas to then get back out of NY for the return trip without having to over pay for gas out on the Island. Putting up with the lines and having someone else pump my gas was worth it to me at the cheaper prices. It won't be worth it now, so I'll go back to refueling at my terminus for the return trip like I do for every other type of trip that I go on.

As for having to have someone else pump my gas for me because it's "complex" I'm not buying it. It's one of the easiest transactions I make on any given day.

1) Park next to pump, drivers side facing it
2) Exit vehicle
3) Swipe card
4) Open fuel door (Mustangs are cap-less now, no cap to remove or lose).
5) Insert nozzle into hole
6) Squeeze handle, lock it so it continues to flow, place hands in pockets when it's cold.
7) Replace nozzle into pump
8) Press NO for car wash, retrieve receipt
9) Go on with the rest of my day.



If I can't figure out how to negotiate those 9 easy steps, then I probably don't need to be operating an almost 2 ton vehicle on the nation's roads to begin with.

[jp the roadgeek]

6) Squeeze handle, lock it so it continues to flow, place hands in pockets when it's cold.

I HATE gas stations to no end that disable this feature.  They're basically giving you a big middle finger by removing the spring that holds it open.  Except in MA where I believe it's actually illegal, so I can give it a pass there. 

[PHLBOS]

6) Squeeze handle, lock it so it continues to flow, place hands in pockets when it's cold.

I HATE gas stations to no end that disable this feature.  They're basically giving you a big middle finger by removing the spring that holds it open.  Except in MA where I believe it's actually illegal, so I can give it a pass there.

Those pump clips have been legal since Jan. 1, 2015.

Below Boston Globe article from Jan. 13, 2015:
Gas pump clips now legal, but may take months to appear 

[vdeane]

I wish we had the pump clips in NY.  I got spoiled on my trip to the Birmingham roadmeet and now I don't want to live without them.

There's one station near my parents house that I almost never wash my windows at (even though I almost always want to) because there's always a HUGE line (it's the cheapest gas in the entire metro area by far) and I feel guilty about taking extra time at the end.  Having the clips would solve that.  Plus I'd like to be able to put my hands in my pockets when it's cold.

[roadman]

6) Squeeze handle, lock it so it continues to flow, place hands in pockets when it's cold.

I HATE gas stations to no end that disable this feature.  They're basically giving you a big middle finger by removing the spring that holds it open.  Except in MA where I believe it's actually illegal, so I can give it a pass there. 

As of January 1, 2015, the Massachusetts ban on locking gas nozzles was eliminated.  However, I'm still trying to figure out what's the issue people have with actually having to hold a gas nozzle while you're pumping the gas.   Seems to be right up there with "OMG, I have to put a license plate on the front of my car.  How can I stand this tyranny!"

[PHLBOS]

As of January 1, 2015, the Massachusetts ban on locking gas nozzles was eliminated.  However, I'm still trying to figure out what's the issue people have with actually having to hold a gas nozzle while you're pumping the gas.

One word answer: Time. 
Especially at a crowded station (see the Prime Energy station in Salem and/or the Pilot station in Sturbridge as examples). 

Those clips allow someone (especially if they're driving alone) to wash their windshield while refueling.

[roadman]

As of January 1, 2015, the Massachusetts ban on locking gas nozzles was eliminated.  However, I'm still trying to figure out what's the issue people have with actually having to hold a gas nozzle while you're pumping the gas.

One word answer: Time. 
Especially at a crowded station (see the Prime Energy station in Salem and/or the Pilot station in Sturbridge as examples). 

Those clips allow someone (especially if they're driving alone) to wash their windshield while refueling.

Fair point PHLBOS.  Guess I'm too used to having grown up in Massachusetts where nozzle clips were illegal for all those years.  I've also had a couple of instances where the nozzle didn't automatically shut off.  So I guess it's second nature for me to always hold the nozzle down when getting gas.

[jeffandnicole]

Don't you people just jam the gas cap in the handle instead??

[roadman]

Don't you people just jam the gas cap in the handle instead??

Hard to do when your car doesn't have a gas cap.

[cl94]

Don't you people just jam the gas cap in the handle instead??

Hard to do when your car doesn't have a gas cap.

Ford in particular doesn't have them on their newer cars.

As far as the locking nozzles, New York hasn't allowed them on new installs for quite a while and very few stations have them.

[compdude787]

Oh wow, I'd hate not having locking nozzles on gas pumps. It's pretty cold here today (i.e. under 40 degrees), and it's nice to be able to go inside my warm car and not freeze my butt off standing outside pumping my gas.