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NC Senate Drafts Anti-Left Lane Hog Bill

Started by slorydn1, March 17, 2017, 10:34:20 PM

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slorydn1

http://www.wcti12.com/news/state/nc-senate-bill-would-fine-slow-drivers-in-the-left-lane/399815475


If passed and signed into law, the fine for hogging the left lane could be as much as $200 which would make it many magnitudes more costly than speeding (which if memory serves is $10 for speeds less than 10 over). Of course the court costs would need to be added into both so the total cost would be near $200 for a $10 speeding ticket anyway, but you get the idea!




I'm all for it, as I have always been convinced that the people who clog the left lane causing the people behind them to start making dodgy moves to get around them have always been potentially more dangerous than those speeding a little over the limit on roads that are already under posted to begin with.






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Brian556

I strongly agree. People going too slow cause way more accidents than those going too fast

compdude787

Good. I'm glad they're increasing the penalties for left-lane hogging.

PColumbus73

I think laws like this should apply to all divided highways (both freeways and non-freeways) with a speed limit at or over 55 MPH outside urban areas.

NJRoadfan

New Jersey along with a few other states have "Keep Right Except To Pass" bills with stiff penalties ($185+2 points in NJ). It doesn't seem to make that much of a difference as enforcement is "difficult" compared to running radar.

JoePCool14

I would agree. Something like this is needed for the pure idiocy of some drivers. Albeit, I haven't been driving for that long, but I've seen enough to know. Good on them.


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orulz

#6
This law is a slippery slope. I don't think I support it as written.

If the only effect of this is to get people obliviously driving in the left lane clearly under the speed limit or slower than the natural flow of traffic, and matching speed or playing leapfrog with a car in the right lane, I think it's OK.

If the intention is to give me a ticket when I'm driving in a 65 zone, going maybe 72 in the left lane, passing somebody going 62 in the right lane, and intending to get right as soon as I have passed the slower car at a safe distance, and then somebody (or even a group of several drivers) who want to go 85 come up on my ass and start tailgating, then no f-ing way. I mean, if somebody comes up behind me who wants to go faster, I'll maybe speed it up to 75 until I clear the slower car and get back in the right lane, but the majority of the time, when somebody comes up on me from behind in a situation like that, they are tailgating roadhogs. I am absolutely opposed to passing any law that enables that sort of behavior.

Therefore, I am suspicious that some people on the interwebs advocating against left-lane hogging are actually in the tailgating roadhog category,  as I encounter that selfish speed demon road hog tailgating behavior WAY more often than I encounter a true left-lane hog. I am strongly of the opinion that anyone who thinks 72 in a 65 is not fast enough for the left lane while passing, should be made to go back through driver's ed.

Another thing is that the "keep right except to pass" and "slower traffic keep right" goes completely out the window when traffic is congested. Say I'm on I-40 at rush hour and traffic is moving about 35mph in all lanes. I happen to be in the left lane, following a safe 2 or 3 seconds behind the driver in front of me. Enter Mr. Roadhog in his BMW, tailgating me at about a distance of 10 feet. I guess he thinks that his desire to drive faster than everybody else means he is entitled to part the traffic like Moses parted the Red Sea. REVOKE!

So maybe if this law came with a drastic increase in license points, financial penalties, and enforcement for tailgating, then I'd be on board. Otherwise, I see it mostly as kow-towing, enabling, and vindicating tailgaters - so, NO THANKS.

thefro

You still should get over and let the idiot going 90 through.

Zeffy

Quote from: NJRoadfan on March 18, 2017, 02:14:09 AM
New Jersey along with a few other states have "Keep Right Except To Pass" bills with stiff penalties ($185+2 points in NJ). It doesn't seem to make that much of a difference as enforcement is "difficult" compared to running radar.

We also have "No Trucks in Left Lane" laws that I've never seen enforced. Same with keep right except to pass.

My question is if you are passing someone who is going under the speed limit and your maneuver causes you to exceed the speed limit by day 5 mph, are you going to get pegged for it if a cop is running radar as you attempt to pass?
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jeffandnicole

Quote from: Zeffy on March 20, 2017, 03:48:08 PM
Quote from: NJRoadfan on March 18, 2017, 02:14:09 AM
New Jersey along with a few other states have "Keep Right Except To Pass" bills with stiff penalties ($185+2 points in NJ). It doesn't seem to make that much of a difference as enforcement is "difficult" compared to running radar.

We also have "No Trucks in Left Lane" laws that I've never seen enforced. Same with keep right except to pass.

My question is if you are passing someone who is going under the speed limit and your maneuver causes you to exceed the speed limit by day 5 mph, are you going to get pegged for it if a cop is running radar as you attempt to pass?

Technically, yes.  You're permitted to drive under the speed limit, not over.

Will a cop give a damn about 5 mph though?  Probably not, unless you're in a few towns that actually care about the limit...or are being a dick about your passing!

1995hoo

Quote from: thefro on March 20, 2017, 03:41:59 PM
You still should get over and let the idiot going 90 through.

I don't think he said he wouldn't do that. I think his point was that he shouldn't have to floor it to finish passing the other guy just because the guy behind him wants to get through faster. What I sometimes do in that situation is to put on my right blinker a little early as a way of saying I'm going to move over once I'm far enough ahead of the guy I'm passing. Sometimes the guy behind me understands, sometimes not.
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kphoger

Quote from: 1995hoo on March 20, 2017, 03:55:24 PM
Quote from: thefro on March 20, 2017, 03:41:59 PM
You still should get over and let the idiot going 90 through.

I don't think he said he wouldn't do that. I think his point was that he shouldn't have to floor it to finish passing the other guy just because the guy behind him wants to get through faster. What I sometimes do in that situation is to put on my right blinker a little early as a way of saying I'm going to move over once I'm far enough ahead of the guy I'm passing. Sometimes the guy behind me understands, sometimes not.

I do that too.  But, honestly, if you're passing someone at a difference of 72 to 62 and somebody still manages to end up on your tail going 90 mph, then he was obviously close enough behind you that you should have seen him coming in your mirrors.  You should have waited to pass until the speed demon got past you.  Yes, tailgating at high speeds is dangerous, but so is pulling out in front of someone going that fast.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

1995hoo

"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

slorydn1

I'm not good with tailgating either. I don't mind getting held up a little by someone who is too timid to complete their pass in a timely manner and get back over, excrement occurs....

I'm talking about the douchebag that you spot 2 miles ahead of you in the left lane and it takes you several minutes to catch up to him and he still doesn't budge. Show him a little left front in the left side mirror-nothing. A flash to pass of the headlights, nada. Nothing budges until the guy in the right lane decides that he no longer wants to be side by side with the moron in the left and speeds up, or slow down (which he shouldn't have to do at all, he's in the right lane). We've all seen what happens next, I don't think I have to go into it here.

"I'm already going the speed limit so no one else should be able to get by me". Let the cops be the cops. If a douchenozzle in a BMW wants to go 90 let him. It's his ticket to chance, it's not up to you to be the enforcer.

I can tell you that most of the road rage incidents that I handle on a daily basis are initially caused by someone one in the left lane refusing to budge. I'm not sticking up for the prick that's trying to run someone off the road but damn, most of it could be avoided if the "it's my right" crowd would just get the hell out of the way.

My dad always used to say "You may be right but what good is it if you're dead right?
Please Note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of any governmental agency, non-governmental agency, quasi-governmental agency or wanna be governmental agency

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Georgia

in Illinois on New Year's Eve, i passed a marked cop car pacing traffic below the speed limit in the left lane.
knowing it was bullcrap, i passed him on the right going 3 mph over the 65 mph speed limit.

best 75 bucks i ever spent.


slory-i think that behavior is worse in the south having driven in the midwest and the south for an equal amount of time.  I think a lot of the left lane hogging has to do with being macho and not letting someone pass you. 

Aerobird

Quote from: kphoger on March 20, 2017, 04:00:21 PMBut, honestly, if you're passing someone at a difference of 72 to 62 and somebody still manages to end up on your tail going 90 mph, then he was obviously close enough behind you that you should have seen him coming in your mirrors.

I can say from experience that this is absolutely not always the case, considering that on a recent drive up I-95 from Jacksonville I had to pull into the left lane to perform a passing maneuver on two trucks, the lane was clear for a very long distance behind me as I did so, but before the trucks were passed I was being tailgated by not one but two drivers who clearly thought they were the second and third coming of Mario Andretti.
Rule 37. There is no 'overkill'. There is only 'open fire' and 'I need to reload'.

LM117

Quote from: Georgia on March 20, 2017, 09:49:08 PMI think a lot of the left lane hogging has to do with being macho and not letting someone pass you.

I agree. Hell, I knew a guy in high school that was bragging to his buddies one day about how every time someone tried to pass him, he would speed up. He thought it was funny. I let him know in a hurry that I didn't think it was.
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kphoger

Quote from: Aerobird on March 21, 2017, 05:53:34 AM
Quote from: kphoger on March 20, 2017, 04:00:21 PMBut, honestly, if you're passing someone at a difference of 72 to 62 and somebody still manages to end up on your tail going 90 mph, then he was obviously close enough behind you that you should have seen him coming in your mirrors.

I can say from experience that this is absolutely not always the case, considering that on a recent drive up I-95 from Jacksonville I had to pull into the left lane to perform a passing maneuver on two trucks, the lane was clear for a very long distance behind me as I did so, but before the trucks were passed I was being tailgated by not one but two drivers who clearly thought they were the second and third coming of Mario Andretti.

What about the right lane?  If the speed demon was keeping right except to pass, then only looking at the left lane in your mirror wouldn't matter.  Sorry, but I've been driving in many situations in which speed demons come up at 20+ mph faster than me, and I always see them coming from afar back, plenty in advance to know whether or not I should overtake or wait when the time comes.  Frequent use of your mirrors should avoid this issue in all but the rarest cases.  And in those rarest cases, switching to your right blinker halfway through the passing maneuver almost always gets the message across; it might not keep them from tailgating, but it keeps them from passing on the inside.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Aerobird

Quote from: kphoger on March 21, 2017, 10:47:13 AMout the right lane?  If the speed demon was keeping right except to pass, then only looking at the left lane in your mirror wouldn't matter.  Sorry, but I've been driving in many situations in which speed demons come up at 20+ mph faster than me, and I always see them coming from afar back, plenty in advance to know whether or not I should overtake or wait when the time comes.  Frequent use of your mirrors should avoid this issue in all but the rarest cases.  And in those rarest cases, switching to your right blinker halfway through the passing maneuver almost always gets the message across; it might not keep them from tailgating, but it keeps them from passing on the inside.

Right lane: Truck.
Center lane: Truck.
Left lane: Me, with the Speed Racer wannabes not visible in any lane as I began the pass. The fact it was dust did make visibility less than it could have been, but the point is going "oh you should have watched your mirrors" does not apply in all cases.
Rule 37. There is no 'overkill'. There is only 'open fire' and 'I need to reload'.

broadhurst04

#19
Quote from: orulz on March 20, 2017, 03:38:41 PM
This law is a slippery slope. I don't think I support it as written.

If the only effect of this is to get people obliviously driving in the left lane clearly under the speed limit or slower than the natural flow of traffic, and matching speed or playing leapfrog with a car in the right lane, I think it's OK.

If the intention is to give me a ticket when I'm driving in a 65 zone, going maybe 72 in the left lane, passing somebody going 62 in the right lane, and intending to get right as soon as I have passed the slower car at a safe distance, and then somebody (or even a group of several drivers) who want to go 85 come up on my ass and start tailgating, then no f-ing way. I mean, if somebody comes up behind me who wants to go faster, I'll maybe speed it up to 75 until I clear the slower car and get back in the right lane, but the majority of the time, when somebody comes up on me from behind in a situation like that, they are tailgating roadhogs. I am absolutely opposed to passing any law that enables that sort of behavior.

Therefore, I am suspicious that some people on the interwebs advocating against left-lane hogging are actually in the tailgating roadhog category,  as I encounter that selfish speed demon road hog tailgating behavior WAY more often than I encounter a true left-lane hog. I am strongly of the opinion that anyone who thinks 72 in a 65 is not fast enough for the left lane while passing, should be made to go back through driver's ed.

Another thing is that the "keep right except to pass" and "slower traffic keep right" goes completely out the window when traffic is congested. Say I'm on I-40 at rush hour and traffic is moving about 35mph in all lanes. I happen to be in the left lane, following a safe 2 or 3 seconds behind the driver in front of me. Enter Mr. Roadhog in his BMW, tailgating me at about a distance of 10 feet. I guess he thinks that his desire to drive faster than everybody else means he is entitled to part the traffic like Moses parted the Red Sea. REVOKE!

So maybe if this law came with a drastic increase in license points, financial penalties, and enforcement for tailgating, then I'd be on board. Otherwise, I see it mostly as kow-towing, enabling, and vindicating tailgaters - so, NO THANKS.

I have always been of the opinion that many drivers interpret Keep Right Except To Pass as Keep Right Except To Speed. They are the drivers who feel speed limits are set artificially low and are really about generating revenue for local governments rather than about public safety. Or, they feel speed limits shouldn't exist because they interfere with the driver's perceived right to operate his/her vehicle in whatever manner he/she sees fit. They effectively take advantage of one law in order to enable them to break another law they don't like. BUT - I also understand that since I am not a law enforcement officer, I do not have the moral or legal authority to write speeding tickets or make people slow down to the speed limit. So, while I do not like the way many drivers apply the Keep Right concept out in the field I make a conscious effort to abide by it, if for no other reason than to avoid a conflict with a driver who wants to go 80 in a 65 because he/she believes speed limits are for pussies.

kphoger

And that's precisely it.  Abiding by the speed limit doesn't give you the right to interfere with traffic by blocking the left lane.  Likewise, going 10 mph over the speed limit doesn't give you the right to interfere with traffic even faster than you by blocking the left lane.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

jemacedo9

Quote from: kphoger on March 24, 2017, 01:14:53 PM
And that's precisely it.  Abiding by the speed limit doesn't give you the right to interfere with traffic by blocking the left lane.  Likewise, going 10 mph over the speed limit doesn't give you the right to interfere with traffic even faster than you by blocking the left lane.

Here in the Northeast, I typically drive 70 in a 55, 75 in a 65, or 80 in a 70.  If I find that I am starting to block traffic wanting to go faster because we're all passing a long line of slower cars, I will speed up 5mph faster than that.  BUT..I refuse to go faster than 15mph faster than the limit in the left lane...people in a hurry behind me are going to have to wait until I reach the first reasonable opportunity to move over to the right lane. Then I signal early that I am going to move over.

And by reasonable, I am not going to cut someone off in the right lane to squeeze into a space barely larger than a car length or two.

kphoger

^^ Sounds like reasonable behavior.

I do duck into the right lane on occasion to let faster traffic by, then dart out into the left again–assuming a decent space in the right lane.  My slowing down by 5 mph to let four other drivers by is quite all right with me:  I'll eat the seven seconds I wasted.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

orulz

You are not technically "blocking the left lane" as long as you are acutally passing cars in the right lane. Say you want to go 70mph in a 65mph zone. There is a line of several semis in front of you going 60mph. You patiently wait while a group of cars going 75mph in the left lane passes, and then an opening presents itself in the left lane. You check your mirrors and note that there is a faster car about a quarter mile back. Even though you know there is a faster car coming, you should still be allowed to get left and complete your pass at 70mph, even if it means the faster car may catch up to you while you are passing and have to slow down. Of course, if this car does come up behind you, you should get into the right lane once you have overtaken the line of 60mph semis. And of course you shouldn't jump out in front of a speed demon and cut them off. But you should still be allowed to pass, even if it means somebody might catch up to you, and have to slow down.

I am generally a "10 over" kind of guy, frequently I wind up in the left lane behind a "5 over" person, who is passing a "stick to the speed limit" person in the right lane. This situation plays out almost exactly like the above. The "5 over" person usually gets back in the right lane once they have completed their pass.  I don't see this as a "left lane hog" situation at all. Being behind this "5 over" person doesn't bother me one bit. I follow 2~3 seconds behind them, waiting patiently for them to complete their pass, then I pass them, and once I have 2~3 seconds lead on them, then I get right too.

But what DOES happen sometimes during this process is that a "20 over" person comes up behind and either starts tailgating me, or else quickly passes me on the right and then cuts me off in order to get between me and the "5 over" driver in front of me. They clearly think that neither me or the 5-over guy have any business being in the left lane and that they should be entitled to drive however fast they want. I say they are just impatient assholes, should slow down a bit and wait patiently like a civilized person, and should furthermore be pulled over and given a ticket for tailgating and/or cutting off.

slorydn1

#24
Quote from: orulz on March 24, 2017, 03:20:54 PM
You are not technically "blocking the left lane" as long as you are acutally passing cars in the right lane.

I am generally a "10 over" kind of guy, frequently I wind up in the left lane behind a "5 over" person, who is passing a "stick to the speed limit" person in the right lane. This situation plays out almost exactly like the above. The "5 over" person usually gets back in the right lane once they have completed their pass.  I don't see this as a "left lane hog" situation at all. Being behind this "5 over" person doesn't bother me one bit. I follow 2~3 seconds behind them, waiting patiently for them to complete their pass, then I pass them, and once I have 2~3 seconds lead on them, then I get right too.



See, I'm more like you when it comes to this. I feel like if I can see you are making progress in passing the other cars  then I have no issue with you, even if that's a little slower than I want to go.


The people I have a problem are the douchebags that run door handle to door handle with one car for miles on end, with nothing in front of them in either lane for a quarter mile or more. Then, if they do finally get past the last car on the right they don't move over, and I'm stuck with a decision to make-can I fit in the tiny amount of room this prick is allowing me to get over so I can now pass him on the right (something one should never be forced to do) or am I still stuck. By this time I usually have some other impatient asshole about an inch off my exhaust tips as if I'm the one holding up the program.


I'm usually pretty mild mannered on the road. I'll let you in even if I have the right of way, I try my best to not cut people off, I allow plenty of room when I merge in front of other people, I don't tailgate (etc,etc). But pricks like this usually get a 4th gear blast of acceleration, the horn and the middle finger as I go by them on the right. Then I usually use the impatient asshole as my teaching tool. After my car finally slows back down to the speed I wanted to go in the first place I stay in the right lane and allow him to pass me on the left. I point at my roof and then to the right,  make a sweeping motion to show a clear left lane, and then a thumbs up back at the hog to show that this is how it's supposed to work. It probably doesn't accomplish anything, most of them are to stupid to be driving to begin with, but hey, it makes me feel better anyway.
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