Who still use's hand/arm signals when driving?

[jakeroot]

But if the elective use of hand signals in a modern vehicle is legal, that would seem to be quite a loophole. Federal standards dictate the brightness, viewable angle, flash rate, surface area, color, and other aspects of turn signal lamps–which have been federally mandated for decades. And somehow Cletus hanging his arm out the window is enough to circumvent decades of federal regulations?

I'm curious to know if broken signals need to be repaired. Like, if your bumper falls off, your car isn't roadworthy until the bumper is re-fastened. How about blinkers? If they don't work, are you allowed to drive the car? I would think so, as you can still signal with your hand. But maybe not?

[briantroutman]

^ In Pennsylvania, anyway, a burned out bulb or any other fault in the directional indicator system would cause a vehicle to fail its required annual safety inspection–and therefore, be illegal to drive.

[1995hoo]

^ In Pennsylvania, anyway, a burned out bulb or any other fault in the directional indicator system would cause a vehicle to fail its required annual safety inspection–and therefore, be illegal to drive.

Same in Virginia, although we can avoid inspection on certain cars (mainly those eligible for antique status). It doesn't exempt those cars from the requirement to have working blinkers, but one can get around that. 

[jakeroot]

^ In Pennsylvania, anyway, a burned out bulb or any other fault in the directional indicator system would cause a vehicle to fail its required annual safety inspection–and therefore, be illegal to drive.

Same in Virginia, although we can avoid inspection on certain cars (mainly those eligible for antique status). It doesn't exempt those cars from the requirement to have working blinkers, but one can get around that.

AFAIK, once a car is 25 years old, any and all requirements to pass an inspection no longer matter. I swear you could drive around with just the frame of the car and it would still be legal.

[briantroutman]

^ Perhaps some states phase out inspections after a number of years, but that's not the case in Pennsylvania. If you had a forty-year-old Dodge Aspen as a daily driver, it would still have to pass all applicable standards for tire tread depth, body integrity, and so on....plus an emissions inspection.

PennDOT does have an Antique plate that can be obtained for cars over 25 years old, and Antique-plated vehicles are exempted from safety and emissions inspections. But there are a few catches. Officially, the car must be "...maintained in or restored to a condition which is substantially in conformance with manufacturer specifications."  The bigger restriction is usage, which is limited to "...participation in club activities, exhibits, tours, parades, occasional transportation and similar uses."  State law spells out "occasional transportation"  as being less than one day per week.

[7/8]

^ In Pennsylvania, anyway, a burned out bulb or any other fault in the directional indicator system would cause a vehicle to fail its required annual safety inspection–and therefore, be illegal to drive.

Same in Virginia, although we can avoid inspection on certain cars (mainly those eligible for antique status). It doesn't exempt those cars from the requirement to have working blinkers, but one can get around that.

AFAIK, once a car is 25 years old, any and all requirements to pass an inspection no longer matter. I swear you could drive around with just the frame of the car and it would still be legal.

[steviep24]

The only people I see still using hand signals are motorcyclists and even that's rare.

[TheArkansasRoadgeek]

I thought a vehicle in certain states without turn signals was classified as "not road worthy"?

[renegade]

AFAIK, once a car is 25 years old, any and all requirements to pass an inspection no longer matter. I swear you could drive around with just the frame of the car and it would still be legal.

So THAT'S what became of my old Chrysler ...

[TheArkansasRoadgeek]

AFAIK, once a car is 25 years old, any and all requirements to pass an inspection no longer matter. I swear you could drive around with just the frame of the car and it would still be legal.

So THAT'S what became of my old Chrysler ...

Perfect!

[jakeroot]

^ In Pennsylvania, anyway, a burned out bulb or any other fault in the directional indicator system would cause a vehicle to fail its required annual safety inspection–and therefore, be illegal to drive.

Same in Virginia, although we can avoid inspection on certain cars (mainly those eligible for antique status). It doesn't exempt those cars from the requirement to have working blinkers, but one can get around that.

AFAIK, once a car is 25 years old, any and all requirements to pass an inspection no longer matter. I swear you could drive around with just the frame of the car and it would still be legal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6rGMNtXHgs

[PHLBOS]

^ Perhaps some states phase out inspections after a number of years, but that's not the case in Pennsylvania. If you had a forty-year-old Dodge Aspen as a daily driver, it would still have to pass all applicable standards for tire tread depth, body integrity, and so on....plus an emissions inspection.

IIRC, the emissions inspections/testing are only required in certain PA counties & only on '75 or newer gasoline-powered vehicles.  So somebody still using a '72 Torino as a daily driver registered in Lancaster County is only subject to the safety inspection (i.e one sticker on the windshield vs. two).

Massachusetts also requires an annual safety inspection for all its vehicles w/standard registrations (i.e. not an antique) regardless of age/vintage.

[roadman]

^ In Pennsylvania, anyway, a burned out bulb or any other fault in the directional indicator system would cause a vehicle to fail its required annual safety inspection—and therefore, be illegal to drive.

Same in Virginia, although we can avoid inspection on certain cars (mainly those eligible for antique status). It doesn't exempt those cars from the requirement to have working blinkers, but one can get around that.

AFAIK, once a car is 25 years old, any and all requirements to pass an inspection no longer matter. I swear you could drive around with just the frame of the car and it would still be legal.

In Massachusetts, a vehicle 25 or more years old is exempt from the emissions requirements, but still has to pass the safety inspection.  And a failed turn signal bulb will get you a 'fail' on the safety inspection.

[briantroutman]

IIRC, the emissions inspections/testing are only required in certain PA counties & only on '75 or newer gasoline-powered vehicles.

Correct on both counts.

The pre-1975 exemption is why was careful to select an Aspen in my example, a model which Chrysler introduced in 1976. And admittedly, the required emissions testing on such old vehicles is cursory–a check of fuel cap integrity and a visual inspection to verify that original emissions control equipment hasn't been tampered with.

Current regulations require emissions testing in 25 of the Commonwealth's 67 counties, although those counties make up approximately 80% of the state's (human) population. Even if we adjust for the higher car to human ratio in the rural counties which aren't covered by the emissions testing program, I'd guess that the number would still be 75% or higher.

[bzakharin]

But if the elective use of hand signals in a modern vehicle is legal, that would seem to be quite a loophole. Federal standards dictate the brightness, viewable angle, flash rate, surface area, color, and other aspects of turn signal lamps–which have been federally mandated for decades. And somehow Cletus hanging his arm out the window is enough to circumvent decades of federal regulations?

I'm curious to know if broken signals need to be repaired. Like, if your bumper falls off, your car isn't roadworthy until the bumper is re-fastened. How about blinkers? If they don't work, are you allowed to drive the car? I would think so, as you can still signal with your hand. But maybe not?

I was involved in an accident in PA which damaged my rear bumper. After all the details were written up, the cop on the scene ripped what was left of the bumper off, handed it to me, and told me to drive home. I didn't ask him to put it in writing, but drove home (into NJ) without any trouble from the cops.

[bandit957]

I remember my aunt using these signals in the '80s. I don't think her car had turn signals.

[inkyatari]

Do it all the time on my bicycle.

As far as driving goes, it appears that 50% of the turn signals in Illinois are broken, but nobody uses the hand signals.

[jakeroot]

^ In Pennsylvania, anyway, a burned out bulb or any other fault in the directional indicator system would cause a vehicle to fail its required annual safety inspection–and therefore, be illegal to drive.

Same in Virginia, although we can avoid inspection on certain cars (mainly those eligible for antique status). It doesn't exempt those cars from the requirement to have working blinkers, but one can get around that.

AFAIK, once a car is 25 years old, any and all requirements to pass an inspection no longer matter. I swear you could drive around with just the frame of the car and it would still be legal.

In Massachusetts, a vehicle 25 or more years old is exempt from the emissions requirements, but still has to pass the safety inspection.  And a failed turn signal bulb will get you a 'fail' on the safety inspection.

Safety inspections seem to be more common out east. Here in Washington, as with most western states, apart from Nevada (according to this page), do not require safety inspections. Emissions testing is required on diesel vehicles older than 2007, and petrol vehicles older than 2009, but only until the car is 25 years old. At that point, you're scot-free. No inspection of any kind is required after that point. I'm pretty sure you can get stopped if any required features (like lights) are broken, but no real inspection is ever performed.

[PHLBOS]

Emissions testing is required on diesel vehicles older than 2007

Really?  Such is usually the opposite in other areas; i.e. older diesel-powered vehicles were exempt from emissions testing mainly because such vehicles were not equipped with any emission-control devices.

and petrol vehicles older than 2009, but only until the car is 25 years old.

For most East Coast states; once a new car becomes a year old, it's subject to emissions testing (in states/counties that require such).

[jakeroot]

Emissions testing is required on diesel vehicles older than 2007

Really?  Such is usually the opposite in other areas; i.e. older diesel-powered vehicles were exempt from emissions testing mainly because such vehicles were not equipped with any emission-control devices.

and petrol vehicles older than 2009, but only until the car is 25 years old.

For most East Coast states; once a new car becomes a year old, it's subject to emissions testing (in states/counties that require such).

*diesel vehicles less than 6000lbs, until they're 25 years old. I believe the vehicles only have to meet the standards for the year they were produced.

I'm not sure why newer vehicles are exempt. There's no explanation given online.

[slorydn1]

Do it all the time on my bicycle.

As far as driving goes, it appears that 50% of the turn signals in Illinois are broken, but nobody uses the hand signals.

Man things must have really changed since I left the area. Back then EVERYBODY used hand signals. Middle finger up meant what you think it does, 1st finger at the side of the road means pull over so I can kick your ass, hand out (palm up) means WTF  are you doing you stupid idiot?!?!?! I'm sure there were others that I forgot after a quarter century of being away. 

[jeffandnicole]

and petrol vehicles older than 2009, but only until the car is 25 years old.

For most East Coast states; once a new car becomes a year old, it's subject to emissions testing (in states/counties that require such).

PA is very old school in those regulations, which requires a car to undergo full emissions and safety testing every year.  NJ and DE don't require them for the first 5 years, and after that, NJ only requires emissions testings now every 2 years. 

But glancing around, I was amazed how many states on the east coast still require annual inspections...even though there's nothing that shows annual inspections are any safer than bi-annual (or fewer) inspections.

In PA, all inspections are done at private garages, so there's a financial incentive by those garages to keep cars coming in, regardless if it's really needed.  And it seems like cars in PA have an unusual number of failed inspections, such as windshield wipers needing replacing and brakes that that need resurfacing.  And when a mechanic 'finds' a problem, the owner of the vehicle is basically held hostage until those repairs are done.

[PHLBOS]

In PA, all inspections are done at private garages, so there's a financial incentive by those garages to keep cars coming in, regardless if it's really needed.

Similar is done in MA as well.  However, unlike PA, the basic inspection costs (i.e. if the vehicle passes & doesn't need anything) is the same regardless of which garage one goes to; whereas in PA, the basic inspection rates wildly vary from garage to garage.