Traffic signal

[TheArkansasRoadgeek]

Recently (as of a few weeks ago, maybe 3) Fort Smith installed overhead [Turning Vehicles YIELD To Peds] and that has got to be the most ignored sign the city or AHTD has installed down Garrison Avenue! I almost got hit by a car today. Either, find a way to do more to minigate this or just make all intersections on the Avenue protected right turns (Hehe). No, but really, this is an issue to some degree.

[roadman65]

Being the average driver now relies on the GPS (as figuring out things for yourself is no longer the option) many ignore signs on purpose as they are now irrelevant to the needs of the driver (as the GPS tells me everything) so they will just turn freely.

Its sad that we as humans have evolved so much on not using our own minds and senses that modern technology is what leads us and guides us through driving.  If a GPS were to tell you where stores were once in side a mall, people would be right in front of that store and their own minds would not alert them that their vision can see the words on the store's sign.  They would have to hear it themselves on the device.

[jakeroot]

roadman65, could you please stop with the constant GPS bashing? People usually ignore pedestrians because they aren't used to seeing them, especially outside of downtown areas.

Honestly, if the alternative is to try and figure out a paper map while driving, I think we're much safer with GPSs.

[US 89]

If a GPS were to tell you where stores were once in side a mall, people would be right in front of that store and their own minds would not alert them that their vision can see the words on the store's sign.  They would have to hear it themselves on the device.

I think most humans can read the store name on their own without a GPS.

[SignBridge]

I agree with Roadman65 on this one. GPS's are part of the so called "dumbing down of America" and I for one do not own a GPS. I still prefer paper road-maps so I see the "big picture." But then again, I'm an old-school guy.

[jakeroot]

I agree with Roadman65 on this one. GPS's are part of the so called "dumbing down of America" and I for one do not own a GPS. I still prefer paper road-maps so I see the "big picture." But then again, I'm an old-school guy.

Oh please. It's all relative. No one's dumber for not having learned how to read a map, because the value of map-reading dropped off dramatically over the last ten years.

[roadman65]

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8672412,-71.887515,3a,37.5y,279.75h,91.47t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdwbFAblkc3p4tRPxPpVtiQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Interesting that all but one direction is not 12-12-12.  Its a three way installation due to it being an intersection of two one way freeway ramps, but one direction of travel on the main road here gets 8-8-8.

[jakeroot]

Here's something I've never seen in the US before. A partial signal: https://goo.gl/SAERDA

Northbound on Grant St in Thornton, CO, at the intersection with Thornton Pkwy, the left turn is a standard 5-head, PPLT display. There's a repeater head on the far left mast, but the only repeated part of the signal are the two arrow displays. Once the arrow is gone, that corner of the intersection goes dark.

The three head signal above the two dark displays is the repeater for the perpendicular through movement.

I've seen this in other countries (South Africa mostly, I think AUS or NZ as well), but never in the US before. Anyone else seen this practice elsewhere in the country?

[Ian]

Here's something I've never seen in the US before. A partial signal: https://goo.gl/SAERDA

I've seen similar set-ups in New York before, mainly outside of the city. Here's an example in Glens Falls: https://goo.gl/maps/8aK6GmCyins

[cl94]

Here's something I've never seen in the US before. A partial signal: https://goo.gl/SAERDA

I've seen similar set-ups in New York before, mainly outside of the city. Here's an example in Glens Falls: https://goo.gl/maps/8aK6GmCyins

Heh, we went through there on my meet, but I didn't bother pointing it out as it's extremely common in this state. But I'd say that's more like a side-by-side or add-on arrow than a completely separate thing.

[SignBridge]

There used to be a similar one on Middle Neck Rd. in Great Neck, NY on Long Island, installed by Nassau County DPW. It has since been replaced by a post-mounted 5-stack. I'm not sure if partial heads are permitted by the MUTCD, but even if they are, I think they're a dumb idea.

[jakeroot]

Here's something I've never seen in the US before. A partial signal: https://goo.gl/SAERDA

I've seen similar set-ups in New York before, mainly outside of the city. Here's an example in Glens Falls: https://goo.gl/maps/8aK6GmCyins

Heh, we went through there on my meet, but I didn't bother pointing it out as it's extremely common in this state. But I'd say that's more like a side-by-side or add-on arrow than a completely separate thing.

Yeah. It's in the spirit of the Thornton signal (although it appears to be older), but it's not quite the same thing. It doesn't help that much of the country doesn't specify far left supplemental mast signals.

I'm not sure if partial heads are permitted by the MUTCD, but even if they are, I think they're a dumb idea.

The only use for them, as I see it, would be when a state DOT nominally doesn't permit green orb signals left of the median (WSDOT has this rule), but some sort of secondary signal is considered helpful for the approach.

[Revive 755]

There used to be a similar one on Middle Neck Rd. in Great Neck, NY on Long Island, installed by Nassau County DPW. It has since been replaced by a post-mounted 5-stack. I'm not sure if partial heads are permitted by the MUTCD, but even if they are, I think they're a dumb idea.

The partial heads are not permitted by the national edition of the MUCTD:
https://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/pdfs/2009r1r2/part4.pdf

Unless otherwise provided in this Manual for a particular application, each signal face at a signalized location shall have three, four, or five signal sections.   Unless otherwise provided in this Manual for a particular application, if a vertical signal face includes a cluster (see Section 4D.09), the signal face shall have at least three vertical positions.

A single-section signal face shall be permitted at a traffic control signal if it consists of a continuously-displayed GREEN ARROW signal indication that is being used to indicate a continuous movement.

The only use for them, as I see it, would be when a state DOT nominally doesn't permit green orb signals left of the median (WSDOT has this rule), but some sort of secondary signal is considered helpful for the approach.

If they don't want a circular green left of the median, but still want to have protected indications for the left turn, they need to go with flashing yellow arrow or flashing red arrow heads.

[SignBridge]

Jakeroot, Wisconsin seems to have a lot of unique rules. Don't they also require that there be a near-right corner signal head at all signalized locations? Or is that just a common practice? I like that idea btw!

[Big John]

Jakeroot, Wisconsin seems to have a lot of unique rules. Don't they also require that there be a near-right corner signal head at all signalized locations? Or is that just a common practice? I like that idea btw!

That used to be the rule, but is more optional now but are still mostly installed everywhere except in Eau Claire.

[jakeroot]

The only use for them, as I see it, would be when a state DOT nominally doesn't permit green orb signals left of the median (WSDOT has this rule), but some sort of secondary signal is considered helpful for the approach.

If they don't want a circular green left of the median, but still want to have protected indications for the left turn, they need to go with flashing yellow arrow or flashing red arrow heads.

Certainly now that's the case. An FYA is an easy fix to any odd PPLT setup (one that requires supplemental signal heads, where lead/lag is helpful, etc). But before the advent of the FYA, agencies were limited in their options (I think the Thornton signal pre-dates the FYA). You could convert to a protected-only signal, but studies may have shown that phasing to be unnecessary. What Thornton did here was unnecessary (far left green orbs are ubiquitous in Colorado and are very much permitted), but it's clever nonetheless.

[jakeroot]

Jakeroot, Wisconsin seems to have a lot of unique rules. Don't they also require that there be a near-right corner signal head at all signalized locations? Or is that just a common practice? I like that idea btw!

That used to be the rule, but is more optional now but are still mostly installed everywhere except in Eau Claire.

While Eau Claire seems to be the "traffic control leader" in WI (they seem to be the first to do everything), I do feel like excluding near-side right and median-mounted signals is a mistake (for various reasons).

[US 89]

I was recently in the Kalispell/Whitefish area of MT and saw several PPLT signals where yellow and green arrows were combined into a single arrow. The order was from top to bottom, red ball-yellow ball-green ball-arrows.

Is this allowed, and has anyone seen it anywhere else? I would think it shouldn't be, for two reasons:
1. Color blind people might not be able to distinguish the yellow and green arrows, and
2. It could be confused with a fully split phased intersection, since that is what the four-light arrangement is usually used for.

[cl94]

I was recently in the Kalispell/Whitefish area of MT and saw several PPLT signals where yellow and green arrows were combined into a single arrow. The order was from top to bottom, red ball-yellow ball-green ball-arrows.

Is this allowed, and has anyone seen it anywhere else? I would think it shouldn't be, for two reasons:
1. Color blind people might not be able to distinguish the yellow and green arrows, and
2. It could be confused with a fully split phased intersection, since that is what the four-light arrangement is usually used for.

We refer to that as a bimodal arrow. VERY common in New York and I have seen it used somewhat-commonly elsewhere (think NJ was one place). NYSDOT generally stopped installing them when they adopted the national MUTCD in 2009 (Region 9 [Central New York] being a huge exception here), but Erie and Monroe Counties still put them up for all PPLT situations. Main rationales given were cost and reduced load on span wires. NYSDOT switched to exclusively doghouses around 2010 or so (and recently, there has been a shift to FYAs in much of the state), but there are still quite a few bimodals around.

[jakeroot]

^^
They are exceptionally common in the Pacific Northwest as well. Snohomish County, WA used them exclusively until conversion to FYA. They are the most common right-turn filter signal in Western Washington as well (far more common than 5-section towers, outside of Tacoma).

EDIT: To extend on cl94's comments, doghouses are most common with span wire installations around here. Bimodal signals seem to be used at mast-arm installations almost exclusively.

EDIT 2: They are also still being installed with alarming regularity.

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

I was recently in the Kalispell/Whitefish area of MT and saw several PPLT signals where yellow and green arrows were combined into a single arrow. The order was from top to bottom, red ball-yellow ball-green ball-arrows.

Is this allowed, and has anyone seen it anywhere else? I would think it shouldn't be, for two reasons:
1. Color blind people might not be able to distinguish the yellow and green arrows, and
2. It could be confused with a fully split phased intersection, since that is what the four-light arrangement is usually used for.

We refer to that as a bimodal arrow. VERY common in New York and I have seen it used somewhat-commonly elsewhere (think NJ was one place). NYSDOT generally stopped installing them when they adopted the national MUTCD in 2009 (Region 9 [Central New York] being a huge exception here), but Erie and Monroe Counties still put them up for all PPLT situations. Main rationales given were cost and reduced load on span wires. NYSDOT switched to exclusively doghouses around 2010 or so (and recently, there has been a shift to FYAs in much of the state), but there are still quite a few bimodals around.

Some towns in Suffolk County NY are still installing new bimodal arrows. Suffolk county itself was installing them up until about 4 or 5 years ago, either as a 4 stack or an arrow next to the green ball, with the other balls directly above the green ball.

Are bimodal arrows allowed in the MUTCD outside of 3 stack FYA applications?

[7/8]

I was recently in the Kalispell/Whitefish area of MT and saw several PPLT signals where yellow and green arrows were combined into a single arrow. The order was from top to bottom, red ball-yellow ball-green ball-arrows.

Is this allowed, and has anyone seen it anywhere else? I would think it shouldn't be, for two reasons:
1. Color blind people might not be able to distinguish the yellow and green arrows, and
2. It could be confused with a fully split phased intersection, since that is what the four-light arrangement is usually used for.

This is the most common type of PPLT signal in Ontario. I have seen a few signals with separate yellow and green arrows, but they're a lot less common. In the Region of Waterloo, left green arrows flash, and we don't have FYA's, so this helps with colour blindness. I agree though that separate heads would be better for your first point. Your second point doesn't apply to Ontario since most 4-head signals are PPLT.

[PColumbus73]

I was recently in the Kalispell/Whitefish area of MT and saw several PPLT signals where yellow and green arrows were combined into a single arrow. The order was from top to bottom, red ball-yellow ball-green ball-arrows.

Is this allowed, and has anyone seen it anywhere else? I would think it shouldn't be, for two reasons:
1. Color blind people might not be able to distinguish the yellow and green arrows, and
2. It could be confused with a fully split phased intersection, since that is what the four-light arrangement is usually used for.

Hawaii uses bimodal arrows exclusively for protected/permissive left turn signals.

[jeffandnicole]

I was recently in the Kalispell/Whitefish area of MT and saw several PPLT signals where yellow and green arrows were combined into a single arrow. The order was from top to bottom, red ball-yellow ball-green ball-arrows.

Is this allowed, and has anyone seen it anywhere else? I would think it shouldn't be, for two reasons:
1. Color blind people might not be able to distinguish the yellow and green arrows, and
2. It could be confused with a fully split phased intersection, since that is what the four-light arrangement is usually used for.

We refer to that as a bimodal arrow. VERY common in New York and I have seen it used somewhat-commonly elsewhere (think NJ was one place). NYSDOT generally stopped installing them when they adopted the national MUTCD in 2009 (Region 9 [Central New York] being a huge exception here), but Erie and Monroe Counties still put them up for all PPLT situations. Main rationales given were cost and reduced load on span wires. NYSDOT switched to exclusively doghouses around 2010 or so (and recently, there has been a shift to FYAs in much of the state), but there are still quite a few bimodals around.

Some towns in Suffolk County NY are still installing new bimodal arrows. Suffolk county itself was installing them up until about 4 or 5 years ago, either as a 4 stack or an arrow next to the green ball, with the other balls directly above the green ball.

Are bimodal arrows allowed in the MUTCD outside of 3 stack FYA applications?

Yes. Several states use them.

[jakeroot]

Are bimodal arrows allowed in the MUTCD outside of 3 stack FYA applications?

Yes...

If a dual-arrow signal section (capable of alternating between the display of a GREEN ARROW and a YELLOW ARROW signal indication) is used in a vertically-arranged signal face, the dual-arrow signal section shall occupy the same position relative to the other sections as the signal section that displays the GREEN ARROW signal indication in a vertically-arranged signal face would occupy.

(Thanks to jeffandnicole)