DST/DWT in North America (US/Canada)

[hotdogPi]

Sure, of course I understand that. I remember being in Edinburgh one April and it was just getting dark around 20:30. Really that's another example of why one's location can be so relevant to this issue. I mentioned before about the hours in Helsinki when we were there, and they were also on what we call DST. Alaska is a great example. People there quite validly question the point of going to DST when the days are already so long during the summer, but on the other hand, since they're already four hours behind the East Coast, the business and government sectors view being five hours behind as even more of a hassle.

Yes, the benefit of DST is primarily in places between about 30 degrees and 60 degrees north or south of the equator.  More tropical than 30 degrees, and there's not that much difference in day length between winter and summer.  More polar than 60 degrees, and there's so much daylight in the summer that you don't need the extra hour, and so little daylight in the winter that you're going to work and coming home in the dark regardless.  However, there's still some value in being at the same time difference to major cities that do have DST.

Edinburgh is south of the 60th parallel. Where I live, in New England, is between the 42nd and 43rd, nowhere near 60, and people are mentioning how DST is not needed in New England.

[hbelkins]

NOTE: DWT is my term for this policy (Daylight wasting time)

Are you paying royalties to Tim for using his term?

And seriously, how is it wasting daylight? To me, daylight is wasted in the morning when you're showering and driving to work. I'd much rather have it in the afternoons when I get off work and can actually see to do something outside if I want to.

[US71]

NOTE: DWT is my term for this policy (Daylight wasting time)

Are you paying royalties to Tim for using his term?

And seriously, how is it wasting daylight? To me, daylight is wasted in the morning when you're showering and driving to work. I'd much rather have it in the afternoons when I get off work and can actually see to do something outside if I want to.

My 2 pfennigs: the later sunset gives me more time for Road Scholaring It's nice to have sun at 7pm vs 7am when I'n just getting started on my day.

[busman_49]

NOTE: DWT is my term for this policy (Daylight wasting time)

Are you paying royalties to Tim for using his term?

And seriously, how is it wasting daylight? To me, daylight is wasted in the morning when you're showering and driving to work. I'd much rather have it in the afternoons when I get off work and can actually see to do something outside if I want to.

My 2 pfennigs: the later sunset gives me more time for Road Scholaring It's nice to have sun at 7pm vs 7am when I'n just getting started on my day.

My job starts at 6 AM and I'm done around 5 or 5:30 PM.  During the winter, I leave for work & it's dark...coming home, basically the same thing.  I like being able to take little stop-offs on the way home from work and having the daylight available to do such a thing.

[mrsman]

Sure, of course I understand that. I remember being in Edinburgh one April and it was just getting dark around 20:30. Really that's another example of why one's location can be so relevant to this issue. I mentioned before about the hours in Helsinki when we were there, and they were also on what we call DST. Alaska is a great example. People there quite validly question the point of going to DST when the days are already so long during the summer, but on the other hand, since they're already four hours behind the East Coast, the business and government sectors view being five hours behind as even more of a hassle.

Yes, the benefit of DST is primarily in places between about 30 degrees and 60 degrees north or south of the equator.  More tropical than 30 degrees, and there's not that much difference in day length between winter and summer.  More polar than 60 degrees, and there's so much daylight in the summer that you don't need the extra hour, and so little daylight in the winter that you're going to work and coming home in the dark regardless.  However, there's still some value in being at the same time difference to major cities that do have DST.

And likewise the primary benefit of DST, being able to enjoy your afternoons with daylight comes right around the time of the transition.  The last 3 weeks of March and the last 2 weeks of October heading into November.  In those transition periods, DST gives you the afternoon sun after work.  You would have afternoon sun in the summer anyway (with or without DST), likewise in December you will have afternoon darkness with or without DST.

[paulthemapguy]

I was trying hard to figure out what DWT stood for...All I came up with was "Daylight Wanking Time."

Not really too far off, though, was I... 

[1995hoo]

Sure, of course I understand that. I remember being in Edinburgh one April and it was just getting dark around 20:30. Really that's another example of why one's location can be so relevant to this issue. I mentioned before about the hours in Helsinki when we were there, and they were also on what we call DST. Alaska is a great example. People there quite validly question the point of going to DST when the days are already so long during the summer, but on the other hand, since they're already four hours behind the East Coast, the business and government sectors view being five hours behind as even more of a hassle.

Yes, the benefit of DST is primarily in places between about 30 degrees and 60 degrees north or south of the equator.  More tropical than 30 degrees, and there's not that much difference in day length between winter and summer.  More polar than 60 degrees, and there's so much daylight in the summer that you don't need the extra hour, and so little daylight in the winter that you're going to work and coming home in the dark regardless.  However, there's still some value in being at the same time difference to major cities that do have DST.

And likewise the primary benefit of DST, being able to enjoy your afternoons with daylight comes right around the time of the transition.  The last 3 weeks of March and the last 2 weeks of October heading into November.  In those transition periods, DST gives you the afternoon sun after work.  You would have afternoon sun in the summer anyway (with or without DST), likewise in December you will have afternoon darkness with or without DST.

Around here without DST sunset on the summer solstice would be at 19:37 (recognizing darkness comes a while after sunset). That's not much time after the commute. I'm sure that's one thing that makes me like DST for the summer.

[kendancy66]

I'm sure this has been stated before, but whoever voted to move the start of DST to the beginning of March should come live in the Northeast where your mornings are sent back into the dark after a couple of weeks of lighter mornings before springing forward.

Just putting them through that would be some measure of justice.

I believe that would be former President George W Bush

[texaskdog]

Just make it year round everywhere, problem solved.  People cry about kids walking to school in the dark.  First of all, kids never walk anymore.  Second, in Minnesota little kids went to school last and high schools first, problem solved.

[vdeane]

Just make it year round everywhere, problem solved.  People cry about kids walking to school in the dark.  First of all, kids never walk anymore.  Second, in Minnesota little kids went to school last and high schools first, problem solved.

1. It is EXTREMELY difficult to wake up when it looks like it's still midnight out.  I've been excruciatingly tired for several months now because of it.
2. It's actually better for the little kids to go first and high schoolers last because teenagers have a different circadian rhythm than adults and naturally sleep/get up later.  Forcing them to get up early just results in sleep deprived teens, as they are biologically incapable of falling asleep at times adults would consider normal (unfortunately, for me this persisted into adulthood as well).

[kkt]

Just make it year round everywhere, problem solved.  People cry about kids walking to school in the dark.  First of all, kids never walk anymore.  Second, in Minnesota little kids went to school last and high schools first, problem solved.

Doesn't even touch the problems, let alone solve them.

It's not just little kids.  Drivers are better when they're not half asleep too.

Kids do indeed still walk to school.  The schools here don't give bus rides to anyone student who lives less than two miles as the crow flies from school.  Actual walking distance might be greater, and it doesn't matter how many high speed arterials they have to cross.

What vdeane posted about the sleep-wake cycle of teens vs. younger kids is true and very well documented.  Teens aren't really awake enough to think until a couple of hours after sunrise.  If they have to have an early class, it should be something nonintellectual like PE.

[pumpkineater2]

Teens aren't really awake enough to think until a couple of hours after sunrise.  If they have to have an early class, it should be something nonintellectual like PE.

Unfortunately for me, school starts at 7:25am. Getting up for that in the winter months even here is horrible as it still looks like midnight at 7:00am when I leave.
To make it worse, my first class is senior english. Fortunately, the dark mornings don't last as long here as in other places.

[CNGL-Leudimin]

Starting next night, my forum time will be accurate again .

[english si]

It's quite nice now at 7pm to have the sun still up, but if I had to get up at 7am (like I did last week without problem as it was light, though the sunshine helped there) every weekday, I might have a problem for a couple of weeks. Certainly mornings are a problem for the couple of weeks before the fall back (there's a lopsidedness to it, with Europe's 7-5 split having the extra month of DST entirely in the fall), and in mid-winter (when there's nothing to do about it but fly south).