Regional boards splitting states.

Started by Indyroads, September 09, 2013, 04:05:41 PM

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Indyroads

I am not sure where to post this, but I was wondering why the regional boards split states in half. particularly the Ohio and Great lakes board. the states of Indiana, Minnesota, Illinois, Ohio and New York are split in half. Geographically speaking it may make more sense for New York, but not necessarily Ill, Ind or, Ohio. For instance if someone wants to post something about the I-465 / I-69 north split does that go into the great lakes board while the I-465/65 south split would go in the Ohio board. it seems that Indianapolis is a city divided between these two boards. Any pointers. Not sure why the dividing lines were not along the state lines.  :hmmm:
And a highway will be there;
    it will be called the Way of Holiness;
    it will be for those who walk on that Way.
The unclean will not journey on it;
    wicked fools will not go about on it.
Isaiah 35:8-10 (NIV)


hotdogPi

Well, Northeast says just "New York" and "Pennsylvania", meaning it's not split in the Northeast board but it is in the other.
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

Molandfreak

#2
Really, more specifically, there could be problems with statewide threads. It seems like the de facto board for Minnesota highways is the Great Lakes, since the eastern part of MN is where the vast majority of people live. Furthermore, I guess you could argue that California north of the Bay Area has more in common with the Pacific Northwest than the Pacific Southwest. Nonetheless, I'm ok with the current setup. Why fix something that isn't broken?
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 05, 2023, 08:24:57 PM
AASHTO attributes 28.5% of highway inventory shrink to bad road fan social media posts.

sbeaver44

At least in my home state of PA, it makes sense to split the state up.  The Erie part of the state is more like the Great Lakes states, the Pittsburgh part of the state is more like the Ohio Valley (the river starts there), and the remainder of the state is more like the Northeast.

That said, if I want to find PA-specific info, it can be a little cumbersome.  But I can deal with either way.  And I like knowing what's going on in states around me, too. 

For PA I'd say PennDOT Region 1 would be Great Lakes, 2, 9, 10, 11, 12 could be the Ohio Valley, and 3 through 8 the Northeast.  (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6AYwWZmobas/UGH-t55koCI/AAAAAAAAB4o/y-BtaBJvcvs/s320/penndot_district_map.jpg)

In defense of my choice for district 2, I submit the Allegheny flows through there which becomes the Ohio...  District 2 is really its own little world.

Alps

It's a "meta" topic, so I'll stick it here in Welcome.

We've had a lot of discussions as to how to split boards. Part of the problem is the states themselves. Pennsylvania is a perfect example. Philadelphia is unquestionably in the Northeast/Mid-Atlantic region (see, there's even a problem right there!), while Pittsburgh is unquestionably in the Great Lakes/Ohio Valley region (see, another problem!). In most cases, it's fairly obvious where to post something - Cleveland to Great Lakes, Cincinnati to Ohio Valley. So what about Columbus? Some people may see it one way, some may see it another.

It's not a perfect system. There are two ways to do it. One is, divide each region into whole states. Now you know exactly where to post your information for a given state, but if you're interested in a particular region, you may get lost. If we divide Nebraska and Iowa, for example, Council Bluffs and Omaha end up in separate boards, despite being the same metro area. That's why we went with the regional approach. If you want to post about something that affects an entire state, it gets fuzzy, but it's the lesser of two fuzzinesses.

agentsteel53

Quote from: Steve on September 09, 2013, 09:26:49 PMIf you want to post about something that affects an entire state, it gets fuzzy, but it's the lesser of two fuzzinesses.

I've had this trouble every so often.  if I post something like "any surviving Ohio state-named interstates left?", where does that go?
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Road Hog

Memphis is another weird animal. It's included in Mid-South but could also belong on the Southeast board. It could go either way depending on the I-22 and I-69 discussions.

Alps

Quote from: agentsteel53 on September 09, 2013, 09:29:16 PM
Quote from: Steve on September 09, 2013, 09:26:49 PMIf you want to post about something that affects an entire state, it gets fuzzy, but it's the lesser of two fuzzinesses.

I've had this trouble every so often.  if I post something like "any surviving Ohio state-named interstates left?", where does that go?
I'd probably post about it in one board, and link to the discussion on the other board in a separate post, and a mod will come along and lock it.

No, scratch that, reverse it. In one board, say "Any surviving Great Lakes area Ohio state-named interstates left?" and in the other, "Any surviving Ohio Valley area..."

NE2

I assume you can't set the forum software to allow a crosspost between forums, where the same topic shows in both?
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

vtk

Quote from: NE2 on September 09, 2013, 09:37:01 PM
I assume you can't set the forum software to allow a crosspost between forums, where the same topic shows in both?

That would be ideal for Columbus or Indianapolis posts.  But I can imagine people abusing such a feature.  Maybe (should the feature exist at all) make it available to mods only, to apply to threads after they are created.
Wait, it's all Ohio? Always has been.

Molandfreak

How about almost ditching the Great Lakes board altogether. All PA and NY posts go to Northeast, all IL, IN, and OH posts go to OH valley; MN, WI, and MI posts can go to a new "Northwoods" board, which Rawmustard would now control. All LA posts go to Mid-South, all TN posts go to Southeast, and all WV posts go to Mid-Atlantic... Just an idea...
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on December 05, 2023, 08:24:57 PM
AASHTO attributes 28.5% of highway inventory shrink to bad road fan social media posts.

froggie

This has been discussed ad nauseum at least 3 times since the forum opened.  At this point, might as well just leave things as-is.  It's not like the mods haven't had a problem moving threads if they need to be moved...

DaBigE

Quote from: Molandfreak on September 09, 2013, 11:55:45 PM
How about almost ditching the Great Lakes board altogether. All PA and NY posts go to Northeast, all IL, IN, and OH posts go to OH valley; MN, WI, and MI posts can go to a new "Northwoods" board, which Rawmustard would now control. All LA posts go to Mid-South, all TN posts go to Southeast, and all WV posts go to Mid-Atlantic... Just an idea...

Agree, with a couple modifications: instead of "Northwoods" how about just plain "Midwest" or "Upper Midwest", containing WI, MN, IA, IL, MI, IN.
"We gotta find this road, it's like Bob's road!" - Rabbit, Twister

vtk

I say leave it as it is, or completely reform the regional definitions.  In the case of the latter, how about using this 38-region regime:
Wait, it's all Ohio? Always has been.

NWI_Irish96

For the most part, Indianapolis-specific discussions have been going in the Great Lakes section.  Perhaps the mods could modify the GL description from "northern Indiana" to "northern and central Indiana". 
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

hbelkins

Indy and C-bus are easy. They go in Ohio Valley because if you pee on the ground in one of those cities, it will eventually flow into the Ohio River and not the St. Lawrence.

Quote from: agentsteel53 on September 09, 2013, 09:29:16 PM
Quote from: Steve on September 09, 2013, 09:26:49 PMIf you want to post about something that affects an entire state, it gets fuzzy, but it's the lesser of two fuzzinesses.

I've had this trouble every so often.  if I post something like "any surviving Ohio state-named interstates left?", where does that go?

That's easy. Traffic Control.  :bigass:


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: hbelkins on September 10, 2013, 09:26:00 AM
Indy and C-bus are easy. They go in Ohio Valley because if you pee on the ground in one of those cities, it will eventually flow into the Ohio River and not the St. Lawrence.

Quote from: agentsteel53 on September 09, 2013, 09:29:16 PM
Quote from: Steve on September 09, 2013, 09:26:49 PMIf you want to post about something that affects an entire state, it gets fuzzy, but it's the lesser of two fuzzinesses.

I've had this trouble every so often.  if I post something like "any surviving Ohio state-named interstates left?", where does that go?

That's easy. Traffic Control.  :bigass:

Using that standard, all but the northernmost 10 miles of Indiana would go in Ohio Valley.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

vtk

Quote from: hbelkins on September 10, 2013, 09:26:00 AM
Indy and C-bus are easy. They go in Ohio Valley because if you pee on the ground in one of those cities, it will eventually flow into the Ohio River and not the St. Lawrence.

Since when are we using hydrography basins to demarcate regions?  I'll go with a cultural argument.  Dayton, Circleville, Zanesville, perhaps Steubenville and maybe even East Liverpool go in Ohio Valley, because they're more culturally aligned with southern Ohio.  Columbus is decidedly more northern, so it goes in Great Lakes.  Toss-ups might include Lima, Springfield, Marion, Coshocton.

Regarding Indiana, I'm less certain, but I'd guess Indianapolis goes in Great Lakes while Terre Haute and Richmond go in Ohio Valley.

(Actually, culturally speaking, I'd say Ohio's main division is four-way: urban, suburban, farming, and hunting.)
Wait, it's all Ohio? Always has been.

J N Winkler

I'm with Froggie--I think the stability that comes from the current arrangement, flawed as it is, is more beneficial than the theoretical gains from any of the reform plans that have been laid out.
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theline

Quote from: cabiness42 on September 10, 2013, 10:12:01 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on September 10, 2013, 09:26:00 AM
Indy and C-bus are easy. They go in Ohio Valley because if you pee on the ground in one of those cities, it will eventually flow into the Ohio River and not the St. Lawrence.

Quote from: agentsteel53 on September 09, 2013, 09:29:16 PM
Quote from: Steve on September 09, 2013, 09:26:49 PMIf you want to post about something that affects an entire state, it gets fuzzy, but it's the lesser of two fuzzinesses.

I've had this trouble every so often.  if I post something like "any surviving Ohio state-named interstates left?", where does that go?

That's easy. Traffic Control.  :bigass:

Using that standard, all but the northernmost 10 miles of Indiana would go in Ohio Valley.
Not exactly. A substantial chunk of northwestern Indiana is in the Kankakee Valley. The Kankakee River empties into the Illinois, not the Ohio. In fact, if I take a leak on the south side of South Bend, I've got a 50/50 chance of it trickling into the Kankakee or the St. Joseph (and on to Lake Michigan).

That being said, I've got no problem with the current arrangement of boards.

NE2

Quote from: theline on September 10, 2013, 10:00:07 PM
Quote from: cabiness42 on September 10, 2013, 10:12:01 AM
Using that standard, all but the northernmost 10 miles of Indiana would go in Ohio Valley.
Not exactly. A substantial chunk of northwestern Indiana is in the Kankakee Valley. The Kankakee River empties into the Illinois, not the Ohio. In fact, if I take a leak on the south side of South Bend, I've got a 50/50 chance of it trickling into the Kankakee or the St. Joseph (and on to Lake Michigan).
So it's even less than the northernmost 10 miles (and according to Wikipedia the Kankakee watershed even enters Michigan). Given that no watershed boundary will exactly follow a line 10 miles from a state line (unless the state line is defined that way - similar to MA-NH and the Merrimack) it's obvious that cabiness was approximating.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

rickmastfan67

Quote from: NE2 on September 09, 2013, 09:37:01 PM
I assume you can't set the forum software to allow a crosspost between forums, where the same topic shows in both?

No such feature to allow something like that to be done.

bugo

Quote from: vtk on September 10, 2013, 03:12:50 AM
I say leave it as it is, or completely reform the regional definitions.  In the case of the latter, how about using this 38-region regime:


The Arkansas delta has nothing to do with the Ozarks.  Also, this map puts Tulsa in a different region than NW Arkansas, while in reality they have a lot in common and there are many connections between the two areas.

bugo

Quote from: hbelkins on September 10, 2013, 09:26:00 AM
Indy and C-bus are easy. They go in Ohio Valley because if you pee on the ground in one of those cities, it will eventually flow into the Ohio River and not the St. Lawrence.

Quote from: agentsteel53 on September 09, 2013, 09:29:16 PM
Quote from: Steve on September 09, 2013, 09:26:49 PMIf you want to post about something that affects an entire state, it gets fuzzy, but it's the lesser of two fuzzinesses.

I've had this trouble every so often.  if I post something like "any surviving Ohio state-named interstates left?", where does that go?

That's easy. Traffic Control.  :bigass:
Quote from: hbelkins on September 10, 2013, 09:26:00 AM
Indy and C-bus are easy. They go in Ohio Valley because if you pee on the ground in one of those cities, it will eventually flow into the Ohio River and not the St. Lawrence.

Did you pee on the ground in Indianapolis?  Rumor is that you farted at the Ashland meet.

hbelkins

You must have me mistaken for someone else who was at Ashland.  :-D


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.



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