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New Jersey Turnpike

Started by hotdogPi, December 22, 2013, 09:04:24 PM

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bzakharin

Quote from: vdeane on July 09, 2017, 07:12:18 PM
I-95 will be entering the Turnpike at exit 6; the current de facto I-95 route is exit 7A, so there's really no reason not to sign it north of there, and I don't understand why the Turnpike doesn't.
I can think of two reasons:
I agree with you Northbound as NJDOT has frequent TO I-95 signs along 295 South and 195 East, but no follow-thru once you enter the Turnpike. Southbound it doesn't matter as much since most traffic is not going to that part of I-95, but rather joining I-95 in Delaware.


storm2k

Quote from: Mergingtraffic on July 09, 2017, 07:16:32 PM
Are these signs NJ TPKE jurisdiction?

On-ramp to the pike from US-46 EB in Ridgefield Park.



[url=https://flic.kr/p/WjQ5EC]


NJDOT. You can see one of their structure identification signs on the structure on the left in the picture. There's also a small Begin NJ Turnpike sign beyond there that marks the start of their jurisdiction.

roadman65

That is from NJDOT maintained free 95 left over I believe. Plus US 46 is state maintained anyway.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

Mergingtraffic

Quote from: roadman65 on August 01, 2017, 09:09:39 PM
That is from NJDOT maintained free 95 left over I believe. Plus US 46 is state maintained anyway.

I noticed the signs to the Turnpike & I-80 from US-46 WEST have been replaced, but these haven't.
I only take pics of good looking signs. Long live non-reflective button copy!
MergingTraffic https://www.flickr.com/photos/98731835@N05/

Mergingtraffic

I only take pics of good looking signs. Long live non-reflective button copy!
MergingTraffic https://www.flickr.com/photos/98731835@N05/

MikeSantNY78

Quote from: Alps on December 27, 2013, 07:04:59 PM
Quote from: bzakharin on December 27, 2013, 02:35:21 PM
I always figured the X in 15X was the next letter after W. If they ever build another exit in that area and call it 15Y, I wouldn't be surprised. 15A would be really weird. Are there any places on any freeway where they needed to add another exit after E and W or N and S pairs? If so, what was it numbered?
New York has used A in places like the Meadowbrook (M3AW, M3AE, just to be awesome).
Before I-190 (the Niagara Section of the NYS Thruway) lost its "N" prefix, there was (northbound) Exit N-18A (Grand Island Blvd.) and N-18B (Beaver Island Pkwy.).

MikeSantNY78

#2231
Quote from: NE2 on December 27, 2013, 05:27:09 PM
Quote from: Don'tKnowYet on December 27, 2013, 04:33:14 PM
http://www.graveinfo.com/NJ/Secaucus/hcbg/news/JJ050703.html
Quote"No one can identify any other roads with an X in the exit number. None at all," said Travis Johnson, information services manager at the International Bridge, Tunnel and Turnpike Association, whose members include 119 toll agencies from around the world. "You see things like exit 35A, but X is rare, if entirely unknown."

Ahem.


from http://www.okroads.com/guides/mo/i35.html
Blame whoever built the Alphabet Loop in Kansas City for this...

Roadwarriors79

#2232
In this video (in the first 15 seconds of it), the northbound pull-through sign at exit 14 has "George Washington Bridge" as the control city. Wouldn't be surprised if this is what NJTA goes with in the future for the northbound signs that don't have "New York" or "New York City" as the control city.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYsnoc8E6mc

SignBridge

Surprised that NJTA posted that, 'cause the MUTCD that they are now following requires place names as the destination, and elsewhere they seem to be following the rules closely.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: SignBridge on August 18, 2017, 08:32:46 PM
Surprised that NJTA posted that, 'cause the MUTCD that they are now following requires place names as the destination, and elsewhere they seem to be following the rules closely.

New York City is tough, especially when it would apply to probably a half dozen exits from Exit 10 and North.

roadman65

By rule of thumb it should be Manhattan as reference to NYC in signing.  The other boroughs should really be considered entities of their own rite. 


BTW I-80 has NYC signed at Exit 53 in Wayne as to stay on I-80 rather than use US 46 to NJ 3 to the Lincoln Tunnel.  I guess that has to do with both US 46 and NJ 3 not being full freeways and NJDOT wants a complete freeway routing to the city.   But still it has the same scenario as NJ Turnpike at Exit 14: The through route goes to the GWB like it does in Wayne, and the exit route goes to one tunnel of the two leading also into NY.  Therefore having NYC on the pull through would be the same as on I-80 there.

Also a directory list exit panel should be in place before Exit 14 letting motorists know of the three main exits into the big city, and New Haven Should become pull through from Exit 14 all the way to the GWB.  Having that would make it out as destination arrived for New York City signed all the way from Baltimore (and even the I-495 beltway near College Park) along both I-95 and the unnumbered NJ Turnpike). :)
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

Roadwarriors79

#2236
Quote from: roadman65 on August 19, 2017, 09:54:28 AM
By rule of thumb it should be Manhattan as reference to NYC in signing.  The other boroughs should really be considered entities of their own rite. 


BTW I-80 has NYC signed at Exit 53 in Wayne as to stay on I-80 rather than use US 46 to NJ 3 to the Lincoln Tunnel.  I guess that has to do with both US 46 and NJ 3 not being full freeways and NJDOT wants a complete freeway routing to the city.   But still it has the same scenario as NJ Turnpike at Exit 14: The through route goes to the GWB like it does in Wayne, and the exit route goes to one tunnel of the two leading also into NY.  Therefore having NYC on the pull through would be the same as on I-80 there.

Also a directory list exit panel should be in place before Exit 14 letting motorists know of the three main exits into the big city, and New Haven Should become pull through from Exit 14 all the way to the GWB.  Having that would make it out as destination arrived for New York City signed all the way from Baltimore (and even the I-495 beltway near College Park) along both I-95 and the unnumbered NJ Turnpike). :)


What signage looks like on I-80 EB at exit 53:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Wayne,+NJ+07470/@40.8956718,-74.2568809,3a,66.8y,83.65h,87.3t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sOsembS55Jvf6b3OAiv_x9Q!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x89c30260113c84d3:0xe654539a1cb20344

Other than Staten Island, I have only seen references to the individual boroughs within New York itself.

I was checking out a video of NJ 3 EB. No mention of I-95 at the Turnpike exit (Western Spur). The only I-95 shields I saw were cosigned for the Eastern Spur.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pZWGORkrKs

02 Park Ave

Shouldn't truck restrictions regarding access to New York City be included on signage from Exit 14 northward?
C-o-H

SignBridge

J & N's point above is well taken. Once you get that close to NYC, the bridges and tunnels are reasonable destinations, just not consistent with MUTCD theory. Though maybe the borough should also be shown with the bridge or tunnel.

storm2k

Quote from: SignBridge on August 19, 2017, 08:38:54 PM
J & N's point above is well taken. Once you get that close to NYC, the bridges and tunnels are reasonable destinations, just not consistent with MUTCD theory. Though maybe the borough should also be shown with the bridge or tunnel.

All three lead to Manhattan, so that's kind of moot. To be fair, this is also how NJDOT approaches signing for the Hudson River crossings, so the Turnpike Authority is being consistent. It's the way that makes the most sense. And they're using the VMS's to put up time to messages, which look like this:

+--------------------------------------------+
|                 New York City Via                     |
+--------------------------------------------+
|     Holland     |       Lincoln      |       GWB   |
|     XX Min      |       XX Min      |      XX Min |
+--------------------------------------------+

I think that gets the point across. The fact is that there are 3 crossings, the Turnpike takes you to all 3 of them, and you may want to take one over the other depending on traffic conditions.

roadman65

#2240
Quote from: Roadwarriors79 on August 19, 2017, 01:23:55 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on August 19, 2017, 09:54:28 AM
By rule of thumb it should be Manhattan as reference to NYC in signing.  The other boroughs should really be considered entities of their own rite. 


BTW I-80 has NYC signed at Exit 53 in Wayne as to stay on I-80 rather than use US 46 to NJ 3 to the Lincoln Tunnel.  I guess that has to do with both US 46 and NJ 3 not being full freeways and NJDOT wants a complete freeway routing to the city.   But still it has the same scenario as NJ Turnpike at Exit 14: The through route goes to the GWB like it does in Wayne, and the exit route goes to one tunnel of the two leading also into NY.  Therefore having NYC on the pull through would be the same as on I-80 there.

Also a directory list exit panel should be in place before Exit 14 letting motorists know of the three main exits into the big city, and New Haven Should become pull through from Exit 14 all the way to the GWB.  Having that would make it out as destination arrived for New York City signed all the way from Baltimore (and even the I-495 beltway near College Park) along both I-95 and the unnumbered NJ Turnpike). :)


What signage looks like on I-80 EB at exit 53:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Wayne,+NJ+07470/@40.8956718,-74.2568809,3a,66.8y,83.65h,87.3t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sOsembS55Jvf6b3OAiv_x9Q!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x89c30260113c84d3:0xe654539a1cb20344

Other than Staten Island, I have only seen references to the individual boroughs within New York itself.

I was checking out a video of NJ 3 EB. No mention of I-95 at the Turnpike exit (Western Spur). The only I-95 shields I saw were cosigned for the Eastern Spur.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pZWGORkrKs

The signs at US 46 on I-80 EB need to have APL's and most likely will. In addition one of three control cities will have to go per MUTCD requiring only two places.  Most likely Clifton will go and Wayne and Lincoln Tunnel will stay.

I-95 was never mentioned on too many places entering the Turnpike even I-280 another interstate.  I think they are adding them slowly as what I have seen on GSV and on here from postings.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

SignBridge

Roadman65, thanks for highlighting an ongoing issue with NJ DOT. They often overload their exit signs with too many destinations such as three, when there should only be two. The MUTCD recommends (and I agree) a maximum of three lines of copy, other than the distance message and exit number tag. So that allows for route number(s) on the top line plus two destinations. Works fine most other states. If necessary, two additional destinations can be shown on a supplemental sign located after the first advance sign.

roadman65

It might be better to have Wayne and Clifton and to use a supplemental signs for Lincoln Tunnel and Midtown NY as another location.

Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

storm2k

Quote from: SignBridge on August 19, 2017, 10:35:13 PM
Roadman65, thanks for highlighting an ongoing issue with NJ DOT. They often overload their exit signs with too many destinations such as three, when there should only be two. The MUTCD recommends (and I agree) a maximum of three lines of copy, other than the distance message and exit number tag. So that allows for route number(s) on the top line plus two destinations. Works fine most other states. If necessary, two additional destinations can be shown on a supplemental sign located after the first advance sign.

Not to take this discussion too far off topic, but NJDOT has been changing their practices with newer signs, they tend to have fewer lines of legend on them. Sometimes, though, it makes sense to have several lines of legend on the signs, and to mix street name and destinations.

roadman65

The Turnpike too has been following this as well.  Exit 8 now omits East Windsor and only uses Hightstown and Freehold.  Exit 10 omits Edison on the three legend signs and only uses Perth Amboy and Metuchen.   Exit 4, though still I heard uses three  Mount Laurel, Camden, and Philadelphia (on a tack on bottom tab) I am guessing until both PTC and PennDOT finally get that lengthy project of connecting the PA Turnpike with the Delaware Expressway complete at which Exit 6 will serve as the SB Turnpike's exit for Philly.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

jeffandnicole

Quote from: roadman65 on August 20, 2017, 09:48:43 AM
The Turnpike too has been following this as well.  Exit 8 now omits East Windsor and only uses Hightstown and Freehold.  Exit 10 omits Edison on the three legend signs and only uses Perth Amboy and Metuchen.   Exit 4, though still I heard uses three  Mount Laurel, Camden, and Philadelphia (on a tack on bottom tab) I am guessing until both PTC and PennDOT finally get that lengthy project of connecting the PA Turnpike with the Delaware Expressway complete at which Exit 6 will serve as the SB Turnpike's exit for Philly.

The 'Philadelphia' tab is indeed supplemental until the 95 interchange is completed in PA.

Exit 5 used to have 4 towns on the Southbound 2 Mile Ahead sign (with the bottom one being an add-on to make it look like one continuous sign), until it was cut back to two.  https://goo.gl/maps/GMLQgCnnAt12

storm2k

Quote from: roadman65 on August 20, 2017, 09:48:43 AM
The Turnpike too has been following this as well.  Exit 8 now omits East Windsor and only uses Hightstown and Freehold.  Exit 10 omits Edison on the three legend signs and only uses Perth Amboy and Metuchen.   Exit 4, though still I heard uses three  Mount Laurel, Camden, and Philadelphia (on a tack on bottom tab) I am guessing until both PTC and PennDOT finally get that lengthy project of connecting the PA Turnpike with the Delaware Expressway complete at which Exit 6 will serve as the SB Turnpike's exit for Philly.

If anything, the Turnpike Authority is being very vigilant about obeying the 2 line maximum thing.

thenetwork

Quote from: jeffandnicole on August 20, 2017, 10:33:47 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on August 20, 2017, 09:48:43 AM
The Turnpike too has been following this as well.  Exit 8 now omits East Windsor and only uses Hightstown and Freehold.  Exit 10 omits Edison on the three legend signs and only uses Perth Amboy and Metuchen.   Exit 4, though still I heard uses three  Mount Laurel, Camden, and Philadelphia (on a tack on bottom tab) I am guessing until both PTC and PennDOT finally get that lengthy project of connecting the PA Turnpike with the Delaware Expressway complete at which Exit 6 will serve as the SB Turnpike's exit for Philly.

The 'Philadelphia' tab is indeed supplemental until the 95 interchange is completed in PA.

Exit 5 used to have 4 towns on the Southbound 2 Mile Ahead sign (with the bottom one being an add-on to make it look like one continuous sign), until it was cut back to two.  https://goo.gl/maps/GMLQgCnnAt12


As city-happy the NJ Turnpike is/was on their BGS, they still couldn't hold a candle to the Indiana Toll Road in the 70s, when they had supplemental BGSs which would regularly list 5 or more cities on the same sign that you could access from the upcoming exit.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: thenetwork on August 20, 2017, 04:54:10 PM
As city-happy the NJ Turnpike is/was on their BGS, they still couldn't hold a candle to the Indiana Toll Road in the 70s, when they had supplemental BGSs which would regularly list 5 or more cities on the same sign that you could access from the upcoming exit.

I remember those signs well - they persisted well into the 1980's.  And the Indiana Toll Road was good about posting the names of places on the Michigan side of the state line too.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

roadman

Quote from: SignBridge on August 18, 2017, 08:32:46 PM
Surprised that NJTA posted that, 'cause the MUTCD that they are now following requires place names as the destination, and elsewhere they seem to be following the rules closely.

From the 2009 MUTCD

QuoteSection 2E.13 Designation of Destinations
Standard:
01 The direction of a freeway and the major destinations or control cities along it shall be clearly identified
through the use of appropriate destination legends (see Section 2D.37). Successive freeway guide signs shall
provide continuity in destination names and consistency with available map information. At any decision
point, a given destination shall be indicated by way of only one route.

Although the George Washington Bridge is not on AASHTO's control cities list, an argument could be made that it satisfies the requirements of the above section.  Especially given that the Turnpike splits at the northern end, and it's desirable to keep traffic bound for the bridge on the 'left' fork.
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)



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