How do you define Northern/Southern CA?

[Henry]

Yet another "How do you define" thread...

We all know that the San Francisco Bay Area (including Oakland and San Jose) is Northern CA, and Los Angeles and San Diego are in Southern CA. But where is the dividing line between the two? That is, where does Northern end and Southern begin (or vice versa, depending on how you put it)?

[Max Rockatansky]

Throw a line across the state on CA 152, north up I-5 and across the Sierras along Tioga Pass out to Nevada on CA 120.  Basically all the cities I would typically considered "Northern Californian" like San Jose, San Francisco and Saramento would be above that line.  Most of the traditional gold mine towns would be in the north along with the high desert of the Great Basin.  South California would have the glut of Fresno, Bakersfield, L.A., Riverside, San Bernardino and San Diego for cities...  US 66 and the Mojave Desert would be in the south....plus Big Sur which I kind of consider the scenic gateway to the north.

[ZLoth]

Somewhere between CA-152 and CA-198.

Of course, there is Kettleman City, California.

[CNGL-Leudimin]

I actually have no clear border between Northern and Southern California. What I have sure, is that anything North of I-80 is truly Northern California, and of course Los Angeles and the Inland Empire is Southern California, but nothing clear between them.

[DTComposer]

Throw a line across the state on CA 152, north up I-5 and across the Sierras along Tioga Pass out to Nevada on CA 120. 

I think that's too far north - it may work from a strictly geographical standpoint, but ignores the cultural reality. CA-152 would put Monterey in Southern California, CA-120 would put Modesto and a good chunk of the Gold Country in Southern California.

From a socio/cultural standpoint, I think this map works pretty well - Dodgers fans vs. Giants fans:

https://www.facebook.com/sportsonfb/photos/pcb.10153153336072457/10153153319327457/?type=3&theater

From a driving standpoint, I've always felt like the "gateways" are the Gaviota Tunnel on US-101 and the Grapevine grade on I-5.

[Max Rockatansky]

Throw a line across the state on CA 152, north up I-5 and across the Sierras along Tioga Pass out to Nevada on CA 120. 

I think that's too far north - it may work from a strictly geographical standpoint, but ignores the cultural reality. CA-152 would put Monterey in Southern California, CA-120 would put Modesto and a good chunk of the Gold Country in Southern California.

From a socio/cultural standpoint, I think this map works pretty well - Dodgers fans vs. Giants fans:

https://www.facebook.com/sportsonfb/photos/pcb.10153153336072457/10153153319327457/?type=3&theater

From a driving standpoint, I've always felt like the "gateways" are the Gaviota Tunnel on US-101 and the Grapevine grade on I-5.

I'd say cities like Fresno and Bakersfield have more of the Southern California vibe to them than the north.  I don't maybe the Bixby Bridge or even Hearst Castle probably would a more specific geographic marker for me along the coastal mountains because I'll give Monterrey is more of a Northern California place to me.  There isn't any way it would be a straight line across the state though when you have places like Bishop that feel more like a SoCal type of place even though they are fairly northern but are divided from the rest of the state by the Sierras out in the Mojave.  It's a pretty dramatic change regardless going north from there. 

[TheStranger]

There's that latitudinal line that divides San Luis Obispo and Monterey counties and cuts straight across west-to-east (which I think was a product of an 1850s attempt at defining Southern and Northern California as different states).  Having said that...

Monterey to me has always been definitively Northern California, as is Fresno

Tulare is north of that latitudinal county-dividing line but so far south that it's "Central California" at best.  Santa Barbara is Southern California to me but considered central coast.  Kern County/Bakersfield is definitely the Southern California part of the Central Valley.

[Max Rockatansky]

There's that latitudinal line that divides San Luis Obispo and Monterey counties and cuts straight across west-to-east (which I think was a product of an 1850s attempt at defining Southern and Northern California as different states).  Having said that...

Monterey to me has always been definitively Northern California, as is Fresno

Tulare is north of that latitudinal county-dividing line but so far south that it's "Central California" at best.  Santa Barbara is Southern California to me but considered central coast.  Kern County/Bakersfield is definitely the Southern California part of the Central Valley.

What's your thoughts on Inyo County?  I'd say southern even though that may not be completely geographically true.

[DTComposer]

maybe the Bixby Bridge or even Hearst Castle probably would a more specific geographic marker for me 

San Luis Obispo, both the county as a whole and the city itself, have a much more Northern California feel.

I mentioned the Gaviota tunnel strictly from a driving standpoint (I think the "boundary" is actually to the north - the Santa Maria River). You're heading south on US-101 through the oak-studded rolling hills of Central Coast Wine Country, you go through the tunnel, take a sharp left turn, suddenly you're hugging the ocean, the hills on your left have a more rugged feel, the climate becomes more Mediterranean, your next urban area is Santa Barbara. It always has a visual "welcome to a different part of the state" feel as I make that drive.

It's the same on I-5. You've been slogging through the valley for hours, and perhaps you crossed some cultural line between Northern and Southern California somewhere along the way, but there's no visual representation of it. Then the Grapevine comes into view, you feel like you're going to drive smack into the mountains, you go up the grade, into the mountains, come down into urban L.A. It feels even more like a transition going north - as you start down the grade, when the expanse of the valley comes into view (haze notwithstanding) - it's another visual representation of "you're somewhere else now."

[TheStranger]

What's your thoughts on Inyo County?  I'd say southern even though that may not be completely geographically true.

I think...that's "eastern California" if that is even a thing, but otherwise very hard to really lump with the NorCal/SoCal distinctions.  It's north of Kern BUT the road access is much easier from the SoCal counties than from most of NorCal. 

I mentioned the Gaviota tunnel strictly from a driving standpoint (I think the "boundary" is actually to the north - the Santa Maria River). You're heading south on US-101 through the oak-studded rolling hills of Central Coast Wine Country, you go through the tunnel, take a sharp left turn, suddenly you're hugging the ocean, the hills on your left have a more rugged feel, the climate becomes more Mediterranean, your next urban area is Santa Barbara. It always has a visual "welcome to a different part of the state" feel as I make that drive.

This makes me think of the difference between the Santa Maria half of Santa Barbara County, and Santa Barbara itself (both separated by 70 miles).  If the Santa Maria area had been able to separate from Santa Barbara County (as was proposed in the early 2000s), would it be considered SoCal or just "Central Coast"?

[cpzilliacus]

What's your thoughts on Inyo County?  I'd say southern even though that may not be completely geographically true.

Los Angeles DWP took most of their water.

[nexus73]

California is multiregional, not dualregional.

Rick

[Max Rockatansky]

What's your thoughts on Inyo County?  I'd say southern even though that may not be completely geographically true.

Los Angeles DWP took most of their water.

Yeah interesting to read up on the town of Manzanar before it became a war camp.  Basically the aqueduct authority bought all the water rights out underneath them.  Interestingly Mono County basically blocked L.A. from taking all the water rights out of Mono Lake to the north.

[mrsman]

If I had to divide up it up into two, I'd use the line dividing the state's two branches of AAA:  ACSC and CSAA

see the map on this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_Club_of_Southern_California

This is especially true for me as I grew up in CA and would really look at the AAA maps of the cities.  ACSC and CSAA had different map styles, I preferred the great color maps of ACSC.

But I generally also consider CA to be properly divided into three: Northern, Central, Southern.  I'd consider SB, SLO, and Monterey counties to be in Central CA, whereas areas north of that to be Northern and south of that to be southern.  Along the I-5/99 corridor, you are definitely in Central CA north of the Grapevine (the gateway to LA) until you reach the I-5/I-580 split (the gateway to the SF Bay.   

[jwolfer]

I am not too familiar with dividing line of California since I live in Florida.

However I met a couple both were from near Mt Shasta. They resent SF Bay area being called northern California

[Max Rockatansky]

If I had to divide up it up into two, I'd use the line dividing the state's two branches of AAA:  ACSC and CSAA

see the map on this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_Club_of_Southern_California

This is especially true for me as I grew up in CA and would really look at the AAA maps of the cities.  ACSC and CSAA had different map styles, I preferred the great color maps of ACSC.

But I generally also consider CA to be properly divided into three: Northern, Central, Southern.  I'd consider SB, SLO, and Monterey counties to be in Central CA, whereas areas north of that to be Northern and south of that to be southern.  Along the I-5/99 corridor, you are definitely in Central CA north of the Grapevine (the gateway to LA) until you reach the I-5/I-580 split (the gateway to the SF Bay.

Personally anything south of the San Joaquin River at the Fresno County line until it swings north would be part of what I see as "Southern" California.  So basically that would include Kings County but I think that Monterrey County would definitely be a different beast and more Northern...besides San Joaquin Valley is arid enough that it fits in better with the south.  I still think of San Luis Obispo as part of Southern California...especially because of Hearst Castle, I've always associated it with the "Southern California" trip that the family took when I was a kid, that was really the dividing line for us.  Even though Mono is mainly accessed form the Southern Part of the state I associate it more with the Northern part due to things like Volcanos, high mountains, snow and the Great Basin.

maybe the Bixby Bridge or even Hearst Castle probably would a more specific geographic marker for me 

San Luis Obispo, both the county as a whole and the city itself, have a much more Northern California feel.

I mentioned the Gaviota tunnel strictly from a driving standpoint (I think the "boundary" is actually to the north - the Santa Maria River). You're heading south on US-101 through the oak-studded rolling hills of Central Coast Wine Country, you go through the tunnel, take a sharp left turn, suddenly you're hugging the ocean, the hills on your left have a more rugged feel, the climate becomes more Mediterranean, your next urban area is Santa Barbara. It always has a visual "welcome to a different part of the state" feel as I make that drive.

It's the same on I-5. You've been slogging through the valley for hours, and perhaps you crossed some cultural line between Northern and Southern California somewhere along the way, but there's no visual representation of it. Then the Grapevine comes into view, you feel like you're going to drive smack into the mountains, you go up the grade, into the mountains, come down into urban L.A. It feels even more like a transition going north - as you start down the grade, when the expanse of the valley comes into view (haze notwithstanding) - it's another visual representation of "you're somewhere else now."

With all of that in mind even I-15, CA 2 and even CA 62 have a dramatic change rising over the mountains out to the Mojave.  I look around Bakersfield and it resembles more a desert more closely than anything else in the immediate area...basically of San Joaquin Valley has that feel up to Fresno.  I always thought of low desert or low lying arid areas as being something more of a theme to the southern part of the state.  About the biggest cultural difference once you hit San Joaquin is that it becomes heavily agricultural as opposed to suburban like L.A., Ventura, Orange, Riverside, San Bernadino and San Diego counties largely are.  The cities in San Joaquin still have that grimy Southern California feel with..but also largely have things you'd see around L.A. like palm trees.

[DTComposer]

I am not too familiar with dividing line of California since I live in Florida.

However I met a couple both were from near Mt Shasta. They resent SF Bay area being called northern California

This is a relatively common sentiment among small-government advocates in the rural north part of the state (Google "State of Jefferson") - they feel under-represented and ignored in comparison to the urban areas of Sacramento and the Bay Area.

That said, a strict geographic division of the state into north and south would indeed include almost the entire nine-county Bay Area in the north (excepting the very southern part of Santa Clara County).

Politically, economically, and culturally, to the rest of the world the Bay Area is Northern California.

[sparker]

Having lived in both halves of the state, attempting to come up with a distinct N-S division is a bit dicey -- some party will always object to being classified as a member of "tribe A" or "tribe B" based on strictly geographic locale.   The best I can do is more or less what the old Division of Highways did with the original (pre-1964) east-west San Joaquin Valley routes.  All those even numbers above 100 and divisible by 4 (104, 108, etc.) started around Sacramento and increased southward; the interim even numbers (118, 126, 138.....) commenced in the L.A. basin and increased northward.  The highest route number was (and is) 198, which extends from US 101 to the SW entrance of Sequoia Nat'l Park via Coalinga and Visalia.  Since the northern half of this division didn't go past 180 (Fresno), I'd just place the N-S division right along 198, extending the basic trajectory to the coast on the west and the Nevada line on the east.  When I was a kid growing up in Glendale, my family would drive up 99 at least twice per year to visit relatives in the Sacramento area; I'd always consider crossing 198 as the point where I was really in Northern California.  I see no reason to deviate from that today.

[DTComposer]

This is especially true for me as I grew up in CA and would really look at the AAA maps of the cities.  ACSC and CSAA had different map styles, I preferred the great color maps of ACSC.

That's interesting - the ACSC maps were definitely more colorful, but I found them much less attractive in terms of typographical layout, and they were definitely less finessed in their depictions of roads, coastlines, etc. Their use of city boundaries were often years (sometimes decades) out of date. It would be interesting to dig them out and do a side-by-side comparison.

I'd always consider crossing 198 as the point where I was really in Northern California.  I see no reason to deviate from that today.

I have spent almost exactly half of my life in Northern California (both Sacramento and the Bay Area) and the other half in Southern California (mainly Santa Barbara and Long Beach). Most of my family is in the Bay Area, and most of my wife's family is in Orange County. My step-siblings and siblings-in-law are in Bakersfield and Fresno; my brother lived in San Luis Obispo for eight years, and I had close friends end up in Chico and San Diego. In other words, I've spent my entire life going back and forth across the state.

If I'm going to hold to just a north-south division, I'd still say that San Luis Obispo is Northern California. The topography and vegetation of the Los Osos Valley is closer to, say, the Sonoma or Livermore Valleys than, say, the Santa Clarita or Temecula Valleys; the college-town atmosphere is closer to Davis or Chico than it is to...well, there aren't any small college towns in Southern California, but I'd say the Cal Poly vibe is closer to Berkeley than it is to UCLA. Morro Bay is closer in feel to Monterey Bay than to Santa Monica Bay.

[CNGL-Leudimin]

After a new look to the map, I divide California into nine regions: Southern California, Central coast of California, Central (or San Joaquin) Valley, Owens Valley (includes Death Valley), the Bay Area, Sacramento area, West Lake Tahoe, Northern coast of California (for some reason I thought Alanland was located there), and Northern California.

[bing101]

Harris Ranch is my reference point as the dividing line between Northern California and Southern California.

[sparker]

Harris Ranch is my reference point as the dividing line between Northern California and Southern California.

Wow!  Right along CA 198, which matches my own historical division point.  Wish there was some way to shift the odor from the Harris stockyards across the line into SoCal, but no -- we Northern Californians own that! 

[Scott5114]

Northern California is the part that's north of the southern part.

[Roadgeekteen]

SFO Bay Area and North is northern cal

La metro and South is southern cal
Everywhere else is central cal

[kkt]

If dividing the state into two halves, yes, 198 is about right.

One could also make the case for more regions - north coast, valley, east of the Sierra, SE... but that gets more complicated.