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Massachusetts low number license plate lottery announced

Started by roadman, June 27, 2016, 12:08:04 PM

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roadman

http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/rmv/rmv-2016-low-number-plate-lottery-applications-now-accepted/

The annual excuse for the RMV to waste resources and taxpayer money.  OMG, a "connected" person might get one of these "coveted' plates if we don't do something - what utter nonsense.
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)


kefkafloyd

People in Mass. like low number plates and the lottery is the most fair way to do it. Reserved series plates have a higher registration fee so the lottery almost certainly pays for itself and it keeps the plates out of graft.

What most people don't know is that you can get a non-lotto reserved plate number just by calling the RMV and asking if the number is available. There's a lot of reserved series plates that you could get if you're hankering for a particular number, especially if it's a five digit alphanumeric.

mariethefoxy


roadman

Quote from: kefkafloyd on June 28, 2016, 12:16:46 AM
People in Mass. like low number plates and the lottery is the most fair way to do it. Reserved series plates have a higher registration fee so the lottery almost certainly pays for itself and it keeps the plates out of graft.

What most people don't know is that you can get a non-lotto reserved plate number just by calling the RMV and asking if the number is available. There's a lot of reserved series plates that you could get if you're hankering for a particular number, especially if it's a five digit alphanumeric.
Not true.  RMV does not allow a person to reserve a normal registration number (I know, as I tried several years ago).  Further, while RMV has been encouraging people to upgrade their 1970s and 1980s era single green plates to the current red and white series, they do not allow you to transfer your old registration number to the new plates.

And if the idea of this lottery is to avoid "graft", then there's something really wrong with government's priorities.  OMG, somebody with influence can get a low numbered license plate - the world's not about to end.
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

kefkafloyd

Quote from: roadman on June 28, 2016, 09:11:11 AM

Not true.  RMV does not allow a person to reserve a normal registration number (I know, as I tried several years ago).  Further, while RMV has been encouraging people to upgrade their 1970s and 1980s era single green plates to the current red and white series, they do not allow you to transfer your old registration number to the new plates.

That's different. I am not talking about reserving a six-digit PAN license plate (which is indeed not possible), but a PAR (an actual Passenger Reserved plate type). PAR plates are five digits or less, of which the lottery plates are a subset thereof. You can call the registry special plates department at 857-368-8031 and ask about PAR type plate numbers to see if they are available. If the number is available (and not a lotto number), you can go get your low-number reserved plate by trading in your current registration. You'll pay more for the privilege (PAR plates cost $100 every two years as opposed to PAN's $60/two years plus the swap fee) but it's not hard to get a 5 digit (or less) plate if you put in the effort. I have a vanity plate, so it doesn't matter much to me, but most people either don't know (or care) that much about it and they think that five digits or less can only be acquired via lottery, which isn't true. See also: http://redstreak150cc.blogspot.com/2009/09/snagged-highest-low-digit-motorocycle.html

And yes, you are correct that Green PAN plate replacements cannot be reserved because they are PAN type, although, IMO, they should be able to. But that's not what I was referring to when talking about reserved series.

machias

So, outside of personalized license plates, there's some sort of status symbol for having a low numbered license plate in Massachusetts?

froggie

Quoteseems fairer than the crazy way Delaware does it

I don't see it that way.  Delaware doesn't do any fancy lottery for a low-numbered plate.  Plate numbers are simply transferrable from vehicle-to-vehicle or from owner-to-owner for a fee.

If there's anything crazy in Delaware, it's the dollar amounts that low plates bring in when they go to auction.  Plate #14 fetched $325K this past winter.  Plate #11 sold for $675K back in 2008.  Even three-digit plates will fetch five-digits of cash.

AMLNet49

Quote from: upstatenyroads on June 28, 2016, 12:39:48 PM
So, outside of personalized license plates, there's some sort of status symbol for having a low numbered license plate in Massachusetts?
Correct, generally the license plates with very few digits were among the earliest given out, and they are passed down from generation in many cases to keep the low number in the family. Some relatives of mine have had a 3 digit license plate passed between countless cars for over 40 years.

kefkafloyd

Quote from: upstatenyroads on June 28, 2016, 12:39:48 PM
So, outside of personalized license plates, there's some sort of status symbol for having a low numbered license plate in Massachusetts?

Low number plates (five digits or less) belong to a Reserved series that is not given out for regular registrations. Usually they're a sign that you've been in the state for a long time as those plates are often passed down in families. A bunch of other reserved plates are held by politically connected people or their relatives because that's how they were doled out. A lot of reserved plates were simply old registration numbers that were transferred to Reserved status after the state went to six digit plates in 1916. Not all reserve plates are lottery plates. The state lists the following series as Lottery, though I'm sure they've flagged other specific low number reserved number returned plates as lottery: 1, 12, 123, 1234, A1, 1A, 12A, A12, A. If it doesn't fall in that series, and you find no record of the registration using the registration lookup tool on the RMV's website (or it's cancelled returned and over a year old), you have a chance of getting it just as a regular reserve plate by calling the RMV's special plates department.

The lottery was started in 1987 by then-Governor Dukakis because Registrar Alan Mackey was distributing low number plates to his own family and friends. It ran for a few years until Weld suspended it, and it came back in 1997 and has been going on since. The notable thing is that this year you can enter the lottery online for the first timeā€“up until now you had to send a letter to the RMV to enter. This'll increase the pool of applicants by a large amount, I'm sure.

Quote from: froggie on June 28, 2016, 01:00:06 PM
I don't see it that way.  Delaware doesn't do any fancy lottery for a low-numbered plate.  Plate numbers are simply transferrable from vehicle-to-vehicle or from owner-to-owner for a fee.

If there's anything crazy in Delaware, it's the dollar amounts that low plates bring in when they go to auction.  Plate #14 fetched $325K this past winter.  Plate #11 sold for $675K back in 2008.  Even three-digit plates will fetch five-digits of cash.

The lottery is an equalizer. Anyone, if they're lucky enough, can get a lotto plate. However, they will auction off low-number plates in special plate series to raise money for charity. They did this for the Red Sox Jimmy Fund plates. Obviously there's room for opinion on this front, but I like that there is an equal chance to get a rare plate.

As far as transfers, plates are technically property of the RMV, you can transfer the registration to another vehicle you own or in some cases to a relative if it falls under special or reserved plate types (and special plates often have restrictions beyond that), but if you have a PAN (normal) registration you can't transfer that to another individual as far as I know. If you cancel it, plates have to go back to the RMV. The RMV will hold canceled reserved plates for up to a year in case you get another car. So you wouldn't be able to auction off your low number plate to somebody else if you tire of it.

vdeane

Wouldn't the fact that people who are politically connected or win a lottery can get the low number plates dilute the status symbol aspect?  There's no point in ascribing status to something that's meaningless.

Humanity will never cease to amaze me.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

roadman

Quote from: kefkafloyd on June 28, 2016, 12:00:11 PM
Quote from: roadman on June 28, 2016, 09:11:11 AM

Not true.  RMV does not allow a person to reserve a normal registration number (I know, as I tried several years ago).  Further, while RMV has been encouraging people to upgrade their 1970s and 1980s era single green plates to the current red and white series, they do not allow you to transfer your old registration number to the new plates.

That's different. I am not talking about reserving a six-digit PAN license plate (which is indeed not possible), but a PAR (an actual Passenger Reserved plate type). PAR plates are five digits or less, of which the lottery plates are a subset thereof. You can call the registry special plates department at 857-368-8031 and ask about PAR type plate numbers to see if they are available. If the number is available (and not a lotto number), you can go get your low-number reserved plate by trading in your current registration. You'll pay more for the privilege (PAR plates cost $100 every two years as opposed to PAN's $60/two years plus the swap fee) but it's not hard to get a 5 digit (or less) plate if you put in the effort. I have a vanity plate, so it doesn't matter much to me, but most people either don't know (or care) that much about it and they think that five digits or less can only be acquired via lottery, which isn't true. See also: http://redstreak150cc.blogspot.com/2009/09/snagged-highest-low-digit-motorocycle.html

And yes, you are correct that Green PAN plate replacements cannot be reserved because they are PAN type, although, IMO, they should be able to. But that's not what I was referring to when talking about reserved series.

So noted.  However, if the RMV is trying to encourage people to update plates to the current red/white two plate series, there is NO legitimate reason to not allow people to transfer their current registration number, especially as white on green PAN numbers have not been duplicated in the current series.  I know several people who have hung on to their white on green plate for just this reason, and would be more than happy to upgrade if they could keep their current number - even if they had to pay an extra fee to do it.

But instead of doing something logical that people actually want, the RMV has get all worked up about who gets "low numbers" because the media has nothing better to do than create a major "scandal" where none exists.  Sad that Howie Carr (Boston Herald columnist who's spent most of his life leeching off of the White Bulger issus) and his ilk get to dictate state government policy.
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

kefkafloyd

#11
I actually saw a green PAR plate today on route 3... I 213 was the reg. Those are rarer than hen's teeth these days.

Personally, if I had a green plate, I would hold on to it as long as possible because front plates (and front plate holders) are generally ugly. But I would not begrudge someone who wanted to get red plates and keep the same number. As far as I know the RMV doesn't reissue PAN series plates after they've been cancelled and returned even in red plates, which is why they keep moving on to new number series despite the fact that the amount of combinations should not be exhausted so quickly. While I'm sure there's some perfectly sensible reason for this method, at some point they'll have to start reclaiming some reg numbers.

There is a fellow in-state who will do legal restorations of green plates, assuming the owner can go without the plate for two-ish weeks. A friend of mine (he and I both owned Trans Ams at the time) used him with great success. Uses the same retroreflective paint colors as the originals, it looks brand new and will pass inspection. But if the holder has only have one car, it's hard to go without while you get it restored.

vdeane

Wouldn't it just be simpler to discontinue the low number plates are require existing ones to be turned in the next time they come up for renewal?
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

roadman

One thing that I can't figure out even more than this obsession with low numbered plates - this aversion many people have to putting a plate on the front of their car.
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

kefkafloyd

Quote from: roadman on June 30, 2016, 05:02:59 PM
One thing that I can't figure out even more than this obsession with low numbered plates - this aversion many people have to putting a plate on the front of their car.

Because it can look ugly, especially on certain types and a lot of people care how their car looks and don't want holes drilled in their bumpers. If I owned a Corvette, I wouldn't want a front plate on it (though the C6's new factory plate holder is great at not distracting from the car). It also looks bad on new Mazda 3s or Challengers. But since having a front plate is a requirement for Spirit plates, one must deal with it. There are retractable plate holders and relocation brackets if it bothers people.

On my particular car it doesn't look bad, and I have a vanity plate anyway, so I want people to see it coming AND going. :V

Duke87

Quote from: vdeane on June 30, 2016, 01:25:02 PM
Wouldn't it just be simpler to discontinue the low number plates are require existing ones to be turned in the next time they come up for renewal?

No need to force people to change them, but one could avoid this rigamaroll by simply retiring the numbers from usage by attrition - i.e., you can keep one as long as you keep continuously renewing the registration, but once you don't, it's gone.

This is how both NY and CT handle registrations - you can transfer a plate number from vehicle to vehicle, but you cannot transfer it from owner to owner. Once the owner of a particular plate number ceases using it it's retired forever. So, older plate numbers have actual status in that you need to have maintained a continuous vehicle registration in the state since the number was first issued in order to still have it.
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

kefkafloyd

Quote from: Duke87 on June 30, 2016, 07:15:16 PM
Quote from: vdeane on June 30, 2016, 01:25:02 PM
Wouldn't it just be simpler to discontinue the low number plates are require existing ones to be turned in the next time they come up for renewal?

No need to force people to change them, but one could avoid this rigamaroll by simply retiring the numbers from usage by attrition - i.e., you can keep one as long as you keep continuously renewing the registration, but once you don't, it's gone.

This is how both NY and CT handle registrations - you can transfer a plate number from vehicle to vehicle, but you cannot transfer it from owner to owner. Once the owner of a particular plate number ceases using it it's retired forever. So, older plate numbers have actual status in that you need to have maintained a continuous vehicle registration in the state since the number was first issued in order to still have it.


FWIW, This is how it works in Mass. for PAN (standard) plates. Once a green or regular red Spirit PAN plate gets returned or cancelled, that number is gone. The only exception is for Special or Reserved plates (and those have restrictions) and it is usually a spouse or direct relative that can accept the transfer. War widows, for example, can inherit Veterans or medal plates from their spouses.

Low number reserve plates will never be retired because they are a source of revenue for the registry. You have to pay a one-time swap fee and your registration goes from $60 biannually to $100 biannually. Given the amount of PAR plates out there (any five digit or less plate, not just the lotto plates), this is not a small number. There are thousands and thousands of PAR and MAR plates on the road. There's probably more of them out there than vanity plates because they cost less (vanity plates have a $50 application fee, plus a one-time swap fee, PLUS an annual renewal of $80).

Pete from Boston

Quote from: roadman on June 27, 2016, 12:08:04 PM
http://blog.mass.gov/transportation/rmv/rmv-2016-low-number-plate-lottery-applications-now-accepted/

The annual excuse for the RMV to waste resources and taxpayer money.  OMG, a "connected" person might get one of these "coveted' plates if we don't do something - what utter nonsense.

But as the article says, this is the most exciting time of the year for RMV customers.



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