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Dec. 26, Interstate 5

Started by Sub-Urbanite, January 06, 2017, 12:40:14 PM

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Sub-Urbanite

Dec. 26 was an interesting day to drive across California.

I left Las Vegas around 8 a.m., headed south on I-15 for the first time in a decade, past the super-sized truck inspection station at Mtn. Pass, down to Barstow and Tehachapi and Bakersfield.

And I decided to take the Westside Parkway and Stockdale Highway to I-5, instead of going up 99, on my way to the Bay Area.

Big mistake.

I knew I was in trouble when Waze tried to divert me to the 101 via Paso Robles. But, I checked, and there had been a fatal crash that morning on I-5, and maybe Waze just had bad data because even a fatal should have been cleared by the time I was going through there.

I passed CA 46 and kept going. Waze told me to exit at Kettleman and divert back to 46.

But traffic was going a decent clip, 55ish, and there was a lot of traffic but at least we were moving. So I kept going.

And that was a mistake. The next 20 miles were excruciating. It probably took 2 hours.

The crash was long cleared by the time I got to the site, but it didn't matter — too many cars, too much traffic, and we never really regained speed until the 580 split.

Two things caught my mind as I sat in this mess:

1. Why is this stretch of freeway only 4 lanes?  Why wouldn't Caltrans widen it?

Oh yeah, because why invest money making I-5 faster when you're instead investing in a train that is both faster and better for the environment. Duh.

2. How stupid is it to have signs next to the freeway that say "Build dams, not trains!"? I get that farmers are suffering from the drought, but, A) Dams are a net loser of water, because of seepage, evaporation, etc., and B) Not sure traffic stuck on I-5 is your target audience for the message of "A faster way to get where your going is a waste of money."

Anyway, that's been bottled up for awhile. I should have taken 99. Always. Take. 99.


coatimundi

99 is pretty rough too. Lots of trucks, and not all of it is 3x3.
5 always gets bad on holiday weekends. It was bad on New Year's Eve. It was bad on the Sunday after Thanksgiving. It's bad when everyone drives it at the same time. The fact is that a ton of Angelenos live in the Bay Area and a ton of Bay Area people live in the LA area now. So, on holidays, they all seem to switch sides to visit family. And they all drive at the same time. Solution? Don't drive at the same time as everyone else. I-5 is mostly fine 98% of the year.
Caltrans D6 has widening I-5 in its plans for 2035. In 2011, the level of service was a "C" (http://www.dot.ca.gov/d6/planning/tcrs/i5tcr/i5tcr.pdf), which I would agree with based on most of my driving on that road throughout the year. You get stuck behind slow traffic sometimes, but it's generally fine. Certainly better than many other rural interstates in the rest of the country.

There are alternatives to I-5 that are virtually empty, even around holidays when I-5 is packed. The difference is that they're not freeways so a GPS service will never recommend them. They'll either take just as long or probably longer, but you won't be in traffic. Best thing to do with I-5 is to look at a map and plan an alternative. Because of I-5's holiday issues, I've learned what exits go where along most of the route.

And I don't believe that Caltrans is funding much of the high-speed rail project. A lot of it was federal money.

Max Rockatansky

99 almost is always in worse shape than I-5 is.  99 heads through Fresno which has a way higher chance of a wreck than I-5 does.  The truck traffic is infinitely higher on I-5 given all the local farms, towns, and cities that are along the route.  More than likely you'll be directed to take 152 through Los Banos to get over to I-5 before making the split to I-580.

My recommended route for next time would be the following once you hit San Joaquin Valley; 99 north to CA 46, 46 west to I-5, to I-5, I-5 north to exit 325 for Jayne Avenue, Jayne Avenue west to where it becomes CA 33, CA 33 to CA 198 in Coalinga, CA 198 west to CA 25, CA 25 north to US 101, and US 101 north to the Bay Area.

CA 198 and CA 25 run through the mountains but are in good shape with little traffic, you wouldn't have much difficultly maintaining the speed limit.  Its a good break up of all that freeway and probably a good transition to prepare for the slog that hits once you approach the Bay Area.  You could take CA 46 west to US 101 since 101 is an four-lane expressway or CA 152 over the Diablos.  If you try CA 152 make sure to head onto CA 156 west once the expressway ends and north to US 101 via CA 25.  152 seems great over Pacheco Pass until you hit Gilroy where the road becomes two-laned again and makes I-5 look like a cake walk.  Really it is all about preference, some people are cool with taking lesser routes to avoid traffic.

Hiroshi66

Great topic, and it's similar to something I've been thinking about recently, too - only my comment is about getting stuck on I-5 southbound at the Grapevine, in the event of snow.

Many people get stuck before entering the Grapevine when it is snowing. What would the best bet for motorists be instead of having to be stuck in traffic for hours or staying at a hotel?

I wonder why, in the event of snowfall in the Grapevine, motorists are not advised to take CA 166-W (Maricopa Highway) to CA-33 and then take that down to Ojai and eventually to Ventura and US 101? (They could also take CA-166 all the way to US-101 in Santa Maria but that would take much longer and wouldn't be necessary if the motorists are heading to destinations in LA or Southern California).

Max Rockatansky

#4
Quote from: Hiroshi66 on January 09, 2017, 01:20:31 PM
Great topic, and it's similar to something I've been thinking about recently, too - only my comment is about getting stuck on I-5 southbound at the Grapevine, in the event of snow.

Many people get stuck before entering the Grapevine when it is snowing. What would the best bet for motorists be instead of having to be stuck in traffic for hours or staying at a hotel?

I wonder why, in the event of snowfall in the Grapevine, motorists are not advised to take CA 166-W (Maricopa Highway) to CA-33 and then take that down to Ojai and eventually to Ventura and US 101? (They could also take CA-166 all the way to US-101 in Santa Maria but that would take much longer and wouldn't be necessary if the motorists are heading to destinations in LA or Southern California).

For me if I'm heading to Los Angeles or San Diego from Bakersfield the alternate would be CA 14 or in some rare cases I-15 over Cajon Pass.  I've had to take CA 62 in one extreme circumstances.  If 166 and 33 are in bad shape than 58 probably will be too heading west out of San Joaquin Valley, so really 46 is probably the best bet in that case.

BTW when did we all start accepting all of I-5 being called the "Grapevine" when typically that was only the portion through Grapevine Canyon to Lebec?   Most people don't even know what the Ridge Route even is anymore which I would argue was the cooler sounding name.  It's actually pretty amusing to tell people you are heading south on I-5 via Grapevine Canyon and Ridge Route Alternate, I've run into many a confused look from that statement.

kkt

2035, really?  Today's babies will be adults before I-5 gets two more lanes?

It only took 12 years to build I-5 through the San Joaquin Valley in the first place, and in most places they left enough space in the median for two more lanes.

sparker

Quote from: Hiroshi66 on January 09, 2017, 01:20:31 PM
Great topic, and it's similar to something I've been thinking about recently, too - only my comment is about getting stuck on I-5 southbound at the Grapevine, in the event of snow.

Many people get stuck before entering the Grapevine when it is snowing. What would the best bet for motorists be instead of having to be stuck in traffic for hours or staying at a hotel?

I wonder why, in the event of snowfall in the Grapevine, motorists are not advised to take CA 166-W (Maricopa Highway) to CA-33 and then take that down to Ojai and eventually to Ventura and US 101? (They could also take CA-166 all the way to US-101 in Santa Maria but that would take much longer and wouldn't be necessary if the motorists are heading to destinations in LA or Southern California).

CA 33's a winding mountain road at best -- and its summit is about 900 feet higher than Tejon/Grapevine on I-5.  Chances are that if snow is closing I-5, it's also affecting CA 33 (the Frazier ski area is between the two); and having driven 33 many times, one doesn't want to drive it during foul weather!

coatimundi

Quote from: sparker on January 09, 2017, 04:50:28 PM
Quote from: Hiroshi66 on January 09, 2017, 01:20:31 PM
Great topic, and it's similar to something I've been thinking about recently, too - only my comment is about getting stuck on I-5 southbound at the Grapevine, in the event of snow.

Many people get stuck before entering the Grapevine when it is snowing. What would the best bet for motorists be instead of having to be stuck in traffic for hours or staying at a hotel?

I wonder why, in the event of snowfall in the Grapevine, motorists are not advised to take CA 166-W (Maricopa Highway) to CA-33 and then take that down to Ojai and eventually to Ventura and US 101? (They could also take CA-166 all the way to US-101 in Santa Maria but that would take much longer and wouldn't be necessary if the motorists are heading to destinations in LA or Southern California).

CA 33's a winding mountain road at best -- and its summit is about 900 feet higher than Tejon/Grapevine on I-5.  Chances are that if snow is closing I-5, it's also affecting CA 33 (the Frazier ski area is between the two); and having driven 33 many times, one doesn't want to drive it during foul weather!

It's been discussed on here before, how there's no really good alternative if the Grapevine is closed. 101 to 41 was mentioned (also using 126 to reach 101 when turned around), I believe, as was 14 to 58 but I think it was pointed out that, again, the weather system that closes the Grapevine is likely to close Tehachapi Pass as well.

It's pretty wild out there right now. I drove round-trip to Oakland this weekend. Saw a few wrecks and some pretty heavy rain. Nothing apocalyptic, but they also did a good job encouraging people to stay off of the roads. If they hadn't, then it'd probably be a lot worse.

Hiroshi66

A semi-related aside...

Last Thursday, I took CA-33 from its terminus at US 101 in Ventura all the way to CA-58 in the Central Valley. It was basically through the Maricopa Hwy and Petroleum Hwy portions of the route.

You're right, CA-33 is not a viable alternate if I-5 is closed due to bad weather. First of all, the 86 miles from Ventura to Taft is no joke! After Ojai, there are basically no auto services until you hit Maricopa, and the winding road through the mountains and then the desolate terrain through the Cuyama Valley (as you drive through Ventucopa before hitting CA-166) is not for inexperienced motorists who are heading to or from the Bay Area and looking for an alternate route.

Out of all the routes that connect US-101 to I-5 in the Central Valley (CA-166, CA 41, CA 46, CA 58, etc.) I wonder if CA-33 is the longest and most arduous treks? I guess this is due to the amount of terrain that separates US 101 and I-5 at this point - it might be due to the geography but it just feels like this journey is so much longer than the other routes that connect the two highways at points further north.

In addition, since CA 33 is not a viable option if I-5 is closed, who takes this route between Ventura and I-5? I am imagining that residents of Ventucopa would have to take CA-33 if they are trying to get to points within Ventura or Santa Barbara County. Ventucopa is in Santa Barbara County but is isolated from the county seat as well as other areas in the county due to its position, so if residents need to get to points within their county, they would either have to make the long trek via CA-166 to Santa Maria and then head south on US 101, or go through CA-33 to Ventura and head north. Both of those routes are no joke!

Also, it's interesting that the rural areas of Ventura and Santa Barbara counties served by CA-33 have the area code of 661 and not 805.

coatimundi

Quote from: Hiroshi66 on January 24, 2017, 11:27:50 AM
You're right, CA-33 is not a viable alternate if I-5 is closed due to bad weather.

I didn't want to do a new thread on it, but I noticed that this past weekend 33 had chain restrictions while the Grapevine did not.

Quote from: Hiroshi66 on January 24, 2017, 11:27:50 AM
Out of all the routes that connect US-101 to I-5 in the Central Valley (CA-166, CA 41, CA 46, CA 58, etc.) I wonder if CA-33 is the longest and most arduous treks? I guess this is due to the amount of terrain that separates US 101 and I-5 at this point - it might be due to the geography but it just feels like this journey is so much longer than the other routes that connect the two highways at points further north.

I don't know, 58 feels really long too because it's just endless curves. I don't know what the mileage looks like, but it would be interesting to do a comparison on the drive time.

Quote from: Hiroshi66 on January 24, 2017, 11:27:50 AM
Also, it's interesting that the rural areas of Ventura and Santa Barbara counties served by CA-33 have the area code of 661 and not 805.

That is really odd. 33 is actually used as a boundary for a time. Wonder what was going on there.
http://www.allareacodes.com/805

Hiroshi66

Yes, when I went last week there was quite a lot of snow on the side of the road, but nothing too major.

It's bizarre about the area code, isn't it!? I think it goes to show how arbitrarily the county lines were drawn. Parts of eastern Ventura and Santa Barbara counties seem to share more in common with Kern County geographically. Not to speak on their behalf, but I wonder if residents of Ventucopa would prefer heading to Bakersfield for official business rather than making the long trek across the Transverse Ranges to Santa Barbara.

58 is next on my list! I recall seeing some signs on 33 for back roads leading to Soda Lake - 32 miles, to be exact. Not sure if they are official county routes and they definitely weren't signed but I presume they terminate at 58.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: Hiroshi66 on January 24, 2017, 02:37:24 PM
Yes, when I went last week there was quite a lot of snow on the side of the road, but nothing too major.

It's bizarre about the area code, isn't it!? I think it goes to show how arbitrarily the county lines were drawn. Parts of eastern Ventura and Santa Barbara counties seem to share more in common with Kern County geographically. Not to speak on their behalf, but I wonder if residents of Ventucopa would prefer heading to Bakersfield for official business rather than making the long trek across the Transverse Ranges to Santa Barbara.

58 is next on my list! I recall seeing some signs on 33 for back roads leading to Soda Lake - 32 miles, to be exact. Not sure if they are official county routes and they definitely weren't signed but I presume they terminate at 58.

Soda Lake Road will lead you up to 58 from 166.  I'd be really careful about that road though since most of it is dirt or gravel.  I've only been as far as Soda Lake from the north end south from 58 but I'm to understand it might not be something low clearance can't handle.

Hiroshi66

Yes, it didn't look like the road for the faint of heart! LOL.

Like I said, 33 is no joke either - especially the portion from Wheeler Ridge to Ventucopa. That being said, it is a beautiful highway in the Los Padres National Forest and the views of the Cuyama River Basin from the summit  are breathtaking.

coatimundi

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 24, 2017, 02:49:01 PM
Soda Lake Road will lead you up to 58 from 166.  I'd be really careful about that road though since most of it is dirt or gravel.  I've only been as far as Soda Lake from the north end south from 58 but I'm to understand it might not be something low clearance can't handle.

Right, and all of these roads are going to be worse after this winter. I wouldn't try anything too rough this spring.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: coatimundi on January 24, 2017, 03:28:48 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on January 24, 2017, 02:49:01 PM
Soda Lake Road will lead you up to 58 from 166.  I'd be really careful about that road though since most of it is dirt or gravel.  I've only been as far as Soda Lake from the north end south from 58 but I'm to understand it might not be something low clearance can't handle.

Right, and all of these roads are going to be worse after this winter. I wouldn't try anything too rough this spring.

Hell I'd be leery about even some of the normal stuff here in the Central Valley.  There are some normally well graded dirt roads that basically just become a bog of muck and mud.  I'd hate to be stuck in some mud hole that might sink even 4WD.

Quillz

Quote from: Hiroshi66 on January 24, 2017, 03:25:14 PM
Yes, it didn't look like the road for the faint of heart! LOL.

Like I said, 33 is no joke either - especially the portion from Wheeler Ridge to Ventucopa. That being said, it is a beautiful highway in the Los Padres National Forest and the views of the Cuyama River Basin from the summit  are breathtaking.

I've done 33 now a few times this month, and it really hasn't been that bad. There was a bit of snow on the side, maybe a couple small rocks in the road, but nothing too bad. It's paved and does seem to attract a lot of tourists who take photos. Granted, I haven't been on it during a heavy downpour, but right afterward, so Caltrans does seem to be quick to clean up any damage that might happen.

I've also read it's the preferred highway for dumping bodies... A 1991 article on CA-33 mentioned that police have recovered many bodies, weapons and other evidence of crimes occurring. They stated it was because of CA-33's remote and twisty nature, it seems like a good place to hide things.



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