I-85 overpass collapse northeast of downtown Atlanta

[Beltway]

I-85 to reopen by 15 June, per GDOT: http://www.ajc.com/news/breaking-reopen-june-officials-say/fQcpIeQxcrptK4jarOZSqM/

Congratulations to GDOT for reopening so quickly!

Now that's progress!

They did a great job designing and constructing the replacement bridge spans and completing the project quickly.

Now, we need national standards to be promulgated regarding not storing flammable materials underneath major bridges.

[silverback1065]

I-85 to reopen by 15 June, per GDOT: http://www.ajc.com/news/breaking-reopen-june-officials-say/fQcpIeQxcrptK4jarOZSqM/

Congratulations to GDOT for reopening so quickly!

Now that's progress!

They did a great job designing and constructing the replacement bridge spans and completing the project quickly.

Now, we need national standards to be promulgated regarding not storing flammable materials underneath major bridges.

INDOT released one for indiana.  i bet a lot of states did the same

[kalvado]

I-85 to reopen by 15 June, per GDOT: http://www.ajc.com/news/breaking-reopen-june-officials-say/fQcpIeQxcrptK4jarOZSqM/

Congratulations to GDOT for reopening so quickly!

Now that's progress!

They did a great job designing and constructing the replacement bridge spans and completing the project quickly.

Now, we need national standards to be promulgated regarding not storing flammable materials underneath major bridges.

Given that PVC is considered fire retardant...

[Beltway]

They did a great job designing and constructing the replacement bridge spans and completing the project quickly.

Now, we need national standards to be promulgated regarding not storing flammable materials underneath major bridges.

Given that PVC is considered fire retardant...

Well something obviously burned and in a large enough quantity that it produced enough thermal heat to collapse several bridge spans on each roadway.

[Tom958]

A section of the median barrier on I-85 just south of the viaduct has been cut out, surely for installation of a decades-overdue overhead sign gantry. The new overhead is one mile from the 400 split.

No. To my shock and horror, that section of barrier has been poured back with no provision for a sign gantry. Really, I could understand if a new sign and gantry couldn't be fabricated and installed before the bridge was reopened, but to not even stick a bit of extra concrete and rebar and some big anchor bolts in a hole they'd already made? What the actual... I'm told that some effort was made to incorporate new signage, but something went wrong. Wow.

Now, as before, the only notice of a lane drop for the 400 split is actually beyond the nose of the gore c/o this thing of beauty (actually, it's fun to explain why that sign looks like that!  ). And this after the huge effort and expense put into signing (and re-signing!) across metro Atlanta. Sometimes I think that GDOT's motto must be Derp Omnia Vincit.

[Finrod]

My office is just on the far side of the bridge, so I had to deal with the whole time.  Powers Ferry south of Windy Ridge Parkway (right where it drops from 3 lanes southbound to 2) was a parking lot every morning.

Lots of this mess could have been avoided had people taken the idea of a tunnel to connect 400 to 675 seriously back when it was brought up in 2010.

[Henry]

Lots of this mess could have been avoided had people taken the idea of a tunnel to connect 400 to 675 seriously back when it was brought up in 2010.

Maybe, but now we'll never know for sure. And then again, this is proof that I-420, I-485 and I-675 should've been built out when the opportunity was still there.

[RoadWarrior56]

Good luck getting any new freeway (or new tollway) corridors built in the greater Atlanta area, no matter how bad the traffic is or will get.  As a long-time resident of suburban Atlanta and having spent my entire career in transportation project development, I can testify that this entire metro area is full of smug and militant NIMBY's.  Look what happened with the Northern Arc.  The outcry from a subdivision (existing or proposed, I don't remember which) in Forsyth County, which in-turn embroiled it in a governor's race basically killed it.  You will see a system of toll lanes added to many of the existing freeway corridors plus various interchange improvements, but I would be pleasantly shocked to ever see another single mile of new alignment limited access roadway built anywhere that serves regional needs.

[Mergingtraffic]

Good luck getting any new freeway (or new tollway) corridors built in the greater Atlanta area, no matter how bad the traffic is or will get.  As a long-time resident of suburban Atlanta and having spent my entire career in transportation project development, I can testify that this entire metro area is full of smug and militant NIMBY's.  Look what happened with the Northern Arc.  The outcry from a subdivision (existing or proposed, I don't remember which) in Forsyth County, which in-turn embroiled it in a governor's race basically killed it.  You will see a system of toll lanes added to many of the existing freeway corridors plus various interchange improvements, but I would be pleasantly shocked to ever see another single mile of new alignment limited access roadway built anywhere that serves regional needs.

compared to the Northeast, I'd say Atlanta is pretty lucky.  CT would never have a 16-lane freeway or full beltway.  NIMBYs killed it all.

[Anthony_JK]

It seems that the "no more freeways" trend is going nationwide.

I suppose the next goal for the New Urbanists will be to call for existing "throughpass" freeways to be torn down, have through traffic diverted to the beltway loops, and have surface at-grade boulevards and light rail networks replace the central freeways for serving downtown and the central neighborhoods...all in the name of "redevelopment".

How all that will handle actual traffic patterns is still up in the air.

[RoadWarrior56]

We know how the closing of an existing "throughpass" freeway worked out in Atlanta this spring.  The collapse of the I-85 bridge served as an unwitting six week experiement.  I-285 is normally bad anyway during the workweek anyway.  It got even worse.  Much of the roadway was virtually undrivable for the majority of daylight hours, even on weekends.  I live more than 20 miles from the bridge collapse area and I don't communte downtown, but the indirect traffic effects of that closure even affected me.

[seicer]

Good luck getting any new freeway (or new tollway) corridors built in the greater Atlanta area, no matter how bad the traffic is or will get.  As a long-time resident of suburban Atlanta and having spent my entire career in transportation project development, I can testify that this entire metro area is full of smug and militant NIMBY's.  Look what happened with the Northern Arc.  The outcry from a subdivision (existing or proposed, I don't remember which) in Forsyth County, which in-turn embroiled it in a governor's race basically killed it.  You will see a system of toll lanes added to many of the existing freeway corridors plus various interchange improvements, but I would be pleasantly shocked to ever see another single mile of new alignment limited access roadway built anywhere that serves regional needs.

compared to the Northeast, I'd say Atlanta is pretty lucky.  CT would never have a 16-lane freeway or full beltway.  NIMBYs killed it all.

Do we need all of these freeways? The tolling of I-65's Kennedy Bridge over the Ohio River, and the tolling of I-265 over the Ohio River (both in Louisville) has demonstrated that even with a modest toll, traffic levels will collapse and will remain low - even during rush hour. Congestion pricing and tolls is a great method to encourage mass transit development.

[silverback1065]

It seems that the "no more freeways" trend is going nationwide.

I suppose the next goal for the New Urbanists will be to call for existing "throughpass" freeways to be torn down, have through traffic diverted to the beltway loops, and have surface at-grade boulevards and light rail networks replace the central freeways for serving downtown and the central neighborhoods...all in the name of "redevelopment".

How all that will handle actual traffic patterns is still up in the air.

they're already at this point, they want to kill i-70 in denver (thankfully failed), and 980 in oakland.  neither make any sense to do, and i've yet to see any evidence that their methods actually work to lower traffic, americans like to drive, nothing will change that.  they think that they can turn every city into NYC in terms of transit and density, but now I'm reading that people actually aren't moving back downtown like everyone says, it's starting to go back to suburbs (i'll try to post the articles on this if i have time later)

[silverback1065]

Good luck getting any new freeway (or new tollway) corridors built in the greater Atlanta area, no matter how bad the traffic is or will get.  As a long-time resident of suburban Atlanta and having spent my entire career in transportation project development, I can testify that this entire metro area is full of smug and militant NIMBY's.  Look what happened with the Northern Arc.  The outcry from a subdivision (existing or proposed, I don't remember which) in Forsyth County, which in-turn embroiled it in a governor's race basically killed it.  You will see a system of toll lanes added to many of the existing freeway corridors plus various interchange improvements, but I would be pleasantly shocked to ever see another single mile of new alignment limited access roadway built anywhere that serves regional needs.

compared to the Northeast, I'd say Atlanta is pretty lucky.  CT would never have a 16-lane freeway or full beltway.  NIMBYs killed it all.

Do we need all of these freeways? The tolling of I-65's Kennedy Bridge over the Ohio River, and the tolling of I-265 over the Ohio River (both in Louisville) has demonstrated that even with a modest toll, traffic levels will collapse and will remain low - even during rush hour. Congestion pricing and tolls is a great method to encourage mass transit development.

In Atlanta, most certainly, using Louisville as an example here is completely irrelevant.  And I'd say Louisville doesn't need all the freeways it has.  Using congestion pricing in Atlanta won't turn it into what happened in Louisville, 85 and really all of Atlanta's highways are in the middle of a large, dense population, 265 and 65 (referring to the bridges) are in the sparely populated northern suburbs in Indiana, and there are 2 free alternatives (31 and 64) nearby.  traffic also looks to be increasing as well http://www.wdrb.com/story/35225397/traffic-increasing-on-ohio-river-toll-bridges-riverlink-says

[Henry]

It seems that the "no more freeways" trend is going nationwide.

I suppose the next goal for the New Urbanists will be to call for existing "throughpass" freeways to be torn down, have through traffic diverted to the beltway loops, and have surface at-grade boulevards and light rail networks replace the central freeways for serving downtown and the central neighborhoods...all in the name of "redevelopment".

How all that will handle actual traffic patterns is still up in the air.

they're already at this point, they want to kill i-70 in denver (thankfully failed), and 980 in oakland.  neither make any sense to do, and i've yet to see any evidence that their methods actually work to lower traffic, americans like to drive, nothing will change that.  they think that they can turn every city into NYC in terms of transit and density, but now I'm reading that people actually aren't moving back downtown like everyone says, it's starting to go back to suburbs (i'll try to post the articles on this if i have time later)

They've already killed I-710 out in Pasadena.

[silverback1065]

this is a list of some freeways these new urbanists want to kill https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2017/01/the-highway-hit-list/514965/?utm_source=FB_CL_P_514965_1

[kkt]

It seems that the "no more freeways" trend is going nationwide.

I suppose the next goal for the New Urbanists will be to call for existing "throughpass" freeways to be torn down, have through traffic diverted to the beltway loops, and have surface at-grade boulevards and light rail networks replace the central freeways for serving downtown and the central neighborhoods...all in the name of "redevelopment".

How all that will handle actual traffic patterns is still up in the air.

they're already at this point, they want to kill i-70 in denver (thankfully failed), and 980 in oakland.  neither make any sense to do, and i've yet to see any evidence that their methods actually work to lower traffic, americans like to drive, nothing will change that.  they think that they can turn every city into NYC in terms of transit and density, but now I'm reading that people actually aren't moving back downtown like everyone says, it's starting to go back to suburbs (i'll try to post the articles on this if i have time later)

They've already killed I-710 out in Pasadena.

Not the same thing as demolishing an existing freeway.

Although the I-85 collapse is a short-term experiment, everyone knew it would be short term, so they didn't undertake long-term solutions like moving to nearer where they work.  Although I'm glad I-85 is back, temporary closure is not a representative experiment of what would happen if it was gone permanently.

[RoadWarrior56]

In Atlanta it would be a good experiment.  Besides the sheer size of the metro area and the large population, there are two problems that Atlanta would have in removing any in-town freeways (not that anybody has ever seriously proposed such a thing) - (1) Lack of redundancy in the existing freeway network.  Some cities have parallel freeways that could at least take up part of the slack if a freeway is removed.  NOT HERE.  (2) Very primitive street and arterial grid (what a laugh) network of surface streets.  Atlanta nor its suburbs have a well-developed interconnected system of surface roadways.  Mant main roads follow ridge lines and have been there for many decades, and there are few connecting roadways in many areas.  Streets are often curvy and narrow, often forcing significant traffic onto the freeways that do exist, just for local trips.

[jeffandnicole]

In Atlanta it would be a good experiment.  Besides the sheer size of the metro area and the large population, there are two problems that Atlanta would have in removing any in-town freeways (not that anybody has ever seriously proposed such a thing) - (1) Lack of redundancy in the existing freeway network.  Some cities have parallel freeways that could at least take up part of the slack if a freeway is removed.  NOT HERE.  (2) Very primitive street and arterial grid (what a laugh) network of surface streets.  Atlanta nor its suburbs have a well-developed interconnected system of surface roadways.  Mant main roads follow ridge lines and have been there for many decades, and there are few connecting roadways in many areas.  Streets are often curvy and narrow, often forcing significant traffic onto the freeways that do exist, just for local trips.

Most cities with parallel freeways don't have much excess capacity, so the whole "there's no parallel freeways" thought isn't relevant, as the other highway will quickly become jammed.  Or the traffic network to and from that alternative route would be congested.  If anything, Atlanta's issue worked out WELL because they have a significant beltway around the city.  Traffic could get to I-20 or I-75 with relative ease.  Yep, it was jammed, because a major route was out of commission.

Even in cities where there is duplication, that may be the case for one or two highways, but probably not all of them.

The likelihood of any highway being out of commission is pretty rare.  While traffic engineers and coordinators try to plan for such events, the location of the incident is a major factor.  If the I-85 incident happened a few miles to the north, the necessary detours would've been much different.

[RoadWarrior56]

"Atlanta's issue worked out WELL because they have a significant beltway around the city."

I am not trying to start an argument here.  But I live here and I lived through the bridge outage.  I-285 is indeed a significant beltway, but it had no reserve capacity to begin with.  Adding 50,000 to 100,000 vehicles per day to it, made significant parts of it a parking lot all day every day.  It didn't work out well, traffic-wise.  I-20 and I-75 were adversely affected as well, although I-285 and surface streets in parts of Atlanta got hurt the worst.

The bridge got fixed in 6 weeks, because this area was going to choke in traffic otherwise otherwise.  Kudos to GDOT for getting this fixed quickly. 

[Finrod]

"Atlanta's issue worked out WELL because they have a significant beltway around the city."

I am not trying to start an argument here.  But I live here and I lived through the bridge outage.  I-285 is indeed a significant beltway, but it had no reserve capacity to begin with.  Adding 50,000 to 100,000 vehicles per day to it, made significant parts of it a parking lot all day every day.  It didn't work out well, traffic-wise.  I-20 and I-75 were adversely affected as well, although I-285 and surface streets in parts of Atlanta got hurt the worst.

The bridge got fixed in 6 weeks, because this area was going to choke in traffic otherwise otherwise.  Kudos to GDOT for getting this fixed quickly.

I couldn't agree with this more.  I-285 is a nightmare during rush hour under normal conditions; Atlanta has grown to where half the metro area population is outside of it, and so it's not a 'bypass' any more by any reasonable definition.

Personally I had little sympathy for the traffic problems that central Dekalb County had, because it was the fault of the NIMBYs there that there wasn't any extra freeway capacity or grid to handle it, because those bastards got all those freeways canceled.  Go to wikipedia and put in 'Atlanta freeway revolts' to see what the planned expressway map of Atlanta was supposed to look like.

[Michael]

While looking around in Street View near the I-85 bridge, I noticed a photo sphere, and it was a picture of the construction.

[kalvado]

While looking around in Street View near the I-85 bridge, I noticed a photo sphere, and it was a picture of the construction.

Almost looks like they are building a wooden bridge

[rickmastfan67]

Just happened to have this 5-year video retrospective of the event pop up for me on YouTube.  It's a good watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RN7wOO331Lg

[triplemultiplex]

That was a fun local news doc.  Though I do have one large criticism; how does one put together a three-part report 17 minutes long about that topic and not include ONE SINGLE MAP!  I mean come on!  That's a huge oversight in my mind.