Update on I-69 Extension in Indiana

[LM117]

69 is absolutely needed from indy to eville, it's absolutely unnecessary south of that.

It's worth extending I-69 to Memphis IMO, since it would link Indy to I-55 and New Orleans, allowing traffic traveling between those two cities to bypass Birmingham and Nashville, which would otherwise be encountered via the I-59/I-65 route.

Another bonus of the extension is that it made Future I-169 in KY possible, which will give Evansville an interstate connection to Nashville (via link to I-24).

[Life in Paradise]

One other plus for Southwestern Indiana and Western Kentucky (as well as north/south traffic through the area) is that it gives further thought and importance to a new bridge spanning the Ohio River between Evansville, IN and Henderson, KY.  The current bridges are at the tail end of their lifespan, and in addition are not constructed to today's current earthquake resistant standards (although the big one will take down any bridge).  There is a lot of north/south traffic through the area via US41, not to mention the local traffic between the two cities.  At best now, it will be 10 years before traffic goes over a new bridge.  I just hope that we don't have a major maintenance issue or structural failure before that time.

[I-39]

Most definitely the entire I-69 corridor was overreaching, but especially the segment between Memphis and Shreveport. Its simply unneeded political pork. You want to build a much cheaper alternative? Finish the I-57 extension, which would connect Indianapolis to Texarkana and then upgrade US 59 to interstate standards between there and Houston.

You'll probably get your wish; I'd be willing to bet that the I-57 extension -- and the I-69/369 continuum between Houston and Texarkana -- will be finished long before much more than a few initial I-69 steps done as SIU's (like the 2-lane bypass of Monticello, AR and the proposed connector from existing I-69 near Tunica and the Clarksdale bypass) are completed.  Right now, Arkansas seems to be more interested in finishing off the ancillary AR 530 Pine Bluff-Monticello route than the main I-69 trunk despite rumblings about a Monticello-McGehee connector project.  Between I-49 and the new kid on the block, I-57, AR attention appears to be focused elsewhere.

Good, because I-69 is not needed in Arkansas.

[ATLRedSoxFan]

The only way I-69 in Arkansas will ever get built is if the Great River Bridge gets built, which neither Arkansas or Mississippi can afford at the moment. And Mississippi's more concerned with I-269 and Arkansas with I-49 getting connected.

[ITB]

Let's remember the big gem of the I-69 corridor will be Houston. The value of connecting Houston, one of America's most important economic engines, to the heartland is momentous. Interstate 69 also will go through some of the more impoverished areas of the country, namely the Mississippi Delta and the corresponding delta region of Arkansas. A direct link to Houston may give these regions a significant economic boost, one they badly need. At this point, the value of the I-69 corridor may be dubious to some. And yet the population of the United States continues to steadily grow, particularly in the South. By 2050, the corridor's purpose and benefits may be more tangible.

Both Texas and Mississippi continue to slowly push ahead with their respective I-69 projects. Mississippi is currently finishing up I-269, the eastern outer beltway around Memphis, and is applying for a grant to extend I-69 a few miles deeper into the Delta. (link below)

http://www.desototimes.com/news/desoto-county-i--work-on-track/article_eb121a4a-18c4-11e7-838f-5fb9dfe54812.html

[Georgia]

Building an interstate through the Delta wont help it much, it is in bad need of good jobs and a systemic change.  The problem is, the educated workforce isnt there really for the good jobs to want to come.  What the delta has going for it is cheap everything and good people.

[thefro]

With this public private garbage INDOT has fumbled away any momentum it had on 69 and gave the anti people more ammo.

Well, I think the main reason it failed was because they used a foreign company that was being investigated for corruption. If they had used an American company and properly vetted it (and preferably, a local Indiana company) things may be vastly different). That being said, I'm generally not a fan of public-private partnerships anyway.

As far as the "anti people", to be fair, I really struggle to see the need for the vast majority of the extended I-69 (from Indianapolis to Texas). Existing Interstates can serve the job well, and now that I-57 will be extended to Little Rock, the combined I-70/57/30 corridor between Indianapolis and Texarkana really removes the need for I-69 between Indianapolis and Shreveport. Indiana could have done a lot with the money it wasted on I-69, including widening I-65 to three lanes for the entire length of the state.

It's likely the Indiana segment would have eventually been built in any instance, for one reason -- Evansville (and its associated interests).  The facility may have extended just to I-64 (using old I-164, as it does today, to access the city itself) or if KY ambitions could be likewise harnessed, down the Pennyrile to I-24.  The initial push for I-69 SW of Indianapolis came from Evansville; the entire corridor as currently legislated was the result of efforts from both IN and TX (some might say overreaching!), which brought in similar interests from southern Arkansas who cobbled up the central (Shreveport-Memphis) section to link the two independent north/south proposals.  The overall I-69 concept is like the proverbial "camel as a horse put together by a committee".  Nevertheless, given the successive post-ISTEA omnibus transportation bills (1995, 1998, 2005, etc.), and the history of development efforts in certain parts of the country, it's probable that at least the southern and northern thirds of I-69 would have been independently legislated by this time.

We'd probably be in roughly the same spot (Indiana-wise) given that "Major Moves" would have still happened and would have funded the new terrain section.  Might be less momentum for the bridge and I suspect you're right that Kentucky would have focused on upgrading the Pennyrile.

[sparker]

Let's remember the big gem of the I-69 corridor will be Houston. The value of connecting Houston, one of America's most important economic engines, to the heartland is momentous. Interstate 69 also will go through some of the more impoverished areas of the country, namely the Mississippi Delta and the corresponding delta region of Arkansas. A direct link to Houston may give these regions a significant economic boost, one they badly need. At this point, the value of the I-69 corridor may be dubious to some. And yet the population of the United States continues to steadily grow, particularly in the South. By 2050, the corridor's purpose and benefits may be more tangible.

Both Texas and Mississippi continue to slowly push ahead with their respective I-69 projects. Mississippi is currently finishing up I-269, the eastern outer beltway around Memphis, and is applying for a grant to extend I-69 a few miles deeper into the Delta. (link below)

http://www.desototimes.com/news/desoto-county-i--work-on-track/article_eb121a4a-18c4-11e7-838f-5fb9dfe54812.html

The one thing Houston always lacked with the original Interstate plan was an outlet heading northeast; the in-state HPC #20 (Laredo-Houston-Texarkana) addressed that rather directly & succinctly.  Incorporating it into the larger nationwide I-69 scheme was cobbled up by Indiana and South Texas interests, abetted by a few Arkansas folks, who grafted #20 onto their #18 and promptly trademarked the whole thing as "I-69" (along with the notorious suffixes!).  But the principal goal, as viewed from a Houston standpoint, remains to link that city with corridors heading northeast (such as I-30); if a direct link to either Texarkana or Shreveport -- now that I-49 is functionally a fait accompli between those two cities -- that will likely be sufficient to satisfy Houston interests; development of the Shreveport-Memphis segment won't likely garner the support that the in-state (TX) segments have received to date.  Lip service may be paid to the full corridor concept, but whether that is followed by funding remains to be seen.  Once the segments northeast of Memphis and southwest of Shreveport/Texarkana are completed or in progress, the central section won't be summarily abandoned -- but will probably proceed at a very leisurely pace -- most likely in small segments where local congresspeople and other officials want to make a splash with a "see what I've done" project; this'll include such things as upgrades of US 61 in MS and the Shreveport SE bypass.  It's simply a less pressing priority than the remainder of the corridor.     

[aboges26]

Let's remember the big gem of the I-69 corridor will be Houston. The value of connecting Houston, one of America's most important economic engines, to the heartland is momentous. Interstate 69 also will go through some of the more impoverished areas of the country, namely the Mississippi Delta and the corresponding delta region of Arkansas. A direct link to Houston may give these regions a significant economic boost, one they badly need. At this point, the value of the I-69 corridor may be dubious to some. And yet the population of the United States continues to steadily grow, particularly in the South. By 2050, the corridor's purpose and benefits may be more tangible.

Both Texas and Mississippi continue to slowly push ahead with their respective I-69 projects. Mississippi is currently finishing up I-269, the eastern outer beltway around Memphis, and is applying for a grant to extend I-69 a few miles deeper into the Delta. (link below)

http://www.desototimes.com/news/desoto-county-i--work-on-track/article_eb121a4a-18c4-11e7-838f-5fb9dfe54812.html

Whoa whoa whoa, using your brain like this to analyze connectivity and future potential growth scenarios to determine long-range planning is not welcome around here!   

I agree with you that despite the cost of new freeway corridors, they are well worth it when you consider all the angles.  Sure I-69 will be a slow process and may seem porky, but it will take traffic headed from and destined for Houston and other areas of Texas off existing routes that are currently under strain such as I-40 between Little Rock and Memphis, I-30, and more that facilitate Texas connections with the Midwest and the east coast.  The I-69 concept is rightly putting the horse before the cart and will be a boon for areas along its path once it is complete in about 50 years.

[silverback1065]

i think the idea that this will help the delta region is bullshit.  just another pie in the sky excuse to get it built in the first place. 

[I-39]

How much economic development is realistically going to come from building I-69 between Memphis and Texas through the Mississippi Delta region? I doubt very much. Even if it brings more economic investment, if they don't have a good-educated skilled workforce, it is not going to do much. Problem with these areas (and rural areas in general) tend to be when people get a good education, they leave for better opportunities elsewhere.

I'll say it again, I-69 is an unfunded boondoggle that is eating up lots of resources that could be used elsewhere.

[codyg1985]

Other than services which would pop up along the interstate, I don't know of any other long-term economic impact that I-69 would have in the Delta or in Southern Arkansas.

[sparker]

How much economic development is realistically going to come from building I-69 between Memphis and Texas through the Mississippi Delta region? I doubt very much. Even if it brings more economic investment, if they don't have a good-educated skilled workforce, it is not going to do much. Problem with these areas (and rural areas in general) tend to be when people get a good education, they leave for better opportunities elsewhere.

I'll say it again, I-69 is an unfunded boondoggle that is eating up lots of resources that could be used elsewhere.

Other than services which would pop up along the interstate, I don't know of any other long-term economic impact that I-69 would have in the Delta or in Southern Arkansas.

It's more than likely that the projected economic impact to Southern Arkansas (and possibly the Mississippi Delta region as well) would be dominated by the construction activity involved in the building of the road itself; if the project, including the AR 530 extension, were to extend over a decade or more, there might be something of an uptick in local economic activity to support the deployment.  The only potential long-term effect would be if large-scale warehousing or distribution facilities were to be sited along the alignment, likely near El Dorado, Monticello, or McGehee (where there are also railroad lines to serve such activities), attractive because of relatively cheap acreage. 

On a side note, frequently I hear (via jazz & blues blogs/publications and record-collectors' databases) that a Mississippi Delta music museum has been planned for the Clarksdale area for some time now -- and like most enterprises of that sort, is attempting to identify funding.  While proportionally minor in the overall scheme of things of concern, something like this would probably be rendered more viable (and attractive to investors and/or donors) if fast & efficient (read: Interstate-grade) egress were to advance to some state of certainty rather than contingent speculation.     

[Hot Rod Hootenanny]

On a side note, frequently I hear (via jazz & blues blogs/publications and record-collectors' databases) that a Mississippi Delta music museum has been planned for the Clarksdale area for some time now -- and like most enterprises of that sort, is attempting to identify funding.  While proportionally minor in the overall scheme of things of concern, something like this would probably be rendered more viable (and attractive to investors and/or donors) if fast & efficient (read: Interstate-grade) egress were to advance to some state of certainty rather than contingent speculation.     

There is the Delta Blues Museum in Clarksdale, been around since 1980. There are plenty of mom & pop stores based on blues music tourism centered around the twin suns of Ground Zero Restaurant (Co-owned by Morgan Freeman) & Cathead General Store.

But still the traffic lights don't always work.
With the Grammy museum in Cleveland (http://www.grammymuseumms.org/) and the Blues Foundation (finally) getting their museum operating in Memphis, I don't see the demand forthcoming for another blues museum in Clarksdale.

[sparker]

Actually, the museum plans to which I was referring involved moving the present museum from the old RR station to a new facility near the freeway bypass.  But if the Blues Foundation's Memphis plans are finally gelling (after a quarter-century of negotiations that went nowhere for the longest time), you're probably correct that the impetus for a new Clarksdale facility will be blunted -- in fact, I wouldn't at all be surprised if the existing Clarksdale museum eventually became a branch of the Memphis operation -- that would certainly enhance the smaller town's status and visibility!

[I-39]

One museum isn't going to bring enough tourism. They will need to build factories, intermodal yards and other things to really spur economic growth.

[ITB]

It appears I touched upon a nerve by suggesting I-69 may have an economic impact on the Mississippi-Arkansas Delta region. The Delta is first and foremost an agricultural area. With its rich alluvial soil, it's been immensely productive since the 1840s. The coming of I-69, whenever that might be, won't be some magic wind that will usher in significant change to the area. In all likelihood, it will never be a hub for factories or distribution facilities. The Delta will remain the Delta, primarily agricultural, and for the far foreseeable future.

Areas in the United States where agriculture is the primary industry tend to change slowly. But they do change. For the past several decades, rural area have been steadily losing population to metropolitan areas. This trend is likely to continue, as commercial agriculture becomes even more intensive and ingrained. The family farm is almost dead. Although many ag regions are shrinking population wise, their importance to the U.S. and world economies remains strong. People need food. More people means more food production.

Roads are important to food production because they are the primarily method to move product to market or to production facilities. The easier and faster the transport, the better. This is how I-69 may benefit the Delta. It's not a panacea by any means, but the Mississippi-Arkansas Delta will be better off with an interstate than not. We really can't predict how the Delta might change fifty years out. Farming practices and crops tend to change. Once it was cotton and corn, now it's rice, cotton, soybeans and catfish. At the same time, it may not change much at all. But as the population of the United States continues to steadily grow, it's very possible the Delta's fertile productive soil may become all the more important.

According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the population of the United States crossed the 325 million threshold May 7, 2017. In 2014, the Bureau released population projections up to the year 2060:

2020     334,503,000
2030     359,402,000
2040     380,219,000
2050     398,328,000
2060     416,795,000

If these estimates hold true, just 33 years from now there will be 73 million more people calling the United States home; in 43 years that figure will jump to nearly 92 million. We're going to need more roads, bigger roads.

Here's some historical population stats for Texas and the city of Houston (from Wikipedia):

Texas
1970     11,196,730
1990     16,986,510
2010     25,145,561

Houston
1970       1,232,802
1990       1,953,631
2010       2,100,263

According to one projection, Texas will have a population of 40,698,640 by the year 2040. Houston, too, is likely to double in population by 2040, if it maintains its growth rate of prior decades. By 2050, Harris County, in which Houston is the county seat, probably will have a population of roughly 8,000,000. With I-69, the Delta may become one of the principal food producing regions for Houston and the state of Texas.

Links:
https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/popproj.html
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/10/05/future-immigration-will-change-the-face-of-america-by-2065/
http://statchatva.org/2016/05/11/national-population-projections/

[ITB]

I've been out and about recently taking a look at Section 5 to see how things are coming along.

Crews are working hard in the vicinity of SR 37 and Sample Road blasting rock and grading to prepare for the future roadbed of the new southbound lanes of I-69. Work on the local access roads in the area is well underway as well; in fact, there's been some paving in that regard.

Work to complete the Fullerton Road/SR 37 interchange is steadily continuing. With some work remaining, it looks like the interchange may finally open to traffic in August. At Tapp Road, crews have been busy building up the land for the interchange ramps. This is a good move as it will reduce the time needed to construct the interchange once the SR 37/Tapp Road intersection is closed. The Tapp Road/SR 37 intersection is now the only light-controlled crossing between Evansville and Martinsville, Indiana. This intersection is an important gateway for east-west traffic on Bloomington's southside. When the intersection is sealed off, there is likely to be a lot of consternation and whining, so the quicker the interchange can be built, the better. And speaking of Martinsville and Morgan County, work to complete the Liberty Church Road interchange appears to have been put off to 2018. Nothing much has happened there this spring and early summer.

Let's get to the pictures. Photos were taken July 8, 2017, unless otherwise indicated.


SR 37/Fullerton Road interchange in Monroe County, Indiana; looking east. The traffic roundabout is one of two featured as part of the interchange, one on each side of the overpass. This is the western roundabout, which will handle I-69 southbound exiting and entering traffic. Photo was taken June 28, 2017.


Similar vantage point as above, 11 days later. Wait, what?! Yup, they removed the I-69 shields. Apparently, until Section 5 is officially designated Interstate 69, the shields are not allowed.


Close up view of the western traffic roundabout at the Fullerton Road interchange; looking east.


Looking north toward the entrance and exit ramps for southbound I-69 traffic at Fullerton Road. The exit ramp (left) splits into two, with the right lane (far left) exiting directly onto Fullerton Road. The other exit lane intersects with the traffic roundabout. A concrete barrier wall has been placed to separate the entering/exiting steams of traffic.


Another perspective of the entrance and exit ramps for southbound SR 37/I-69 traffic at Fullerton Road; looking southeast. Earthwork continues on the path of the exit ramp (foreground, left of the dozer).


Looking south through the metal railings of the Fullerton Road overpass. Crews continue to work on the northbound entrance and exit ramps. The bridge in the background is for Rockport Road.


A broader perspective of the Fullerton Road western roundabout and the southbound exit and entrance ramps; looking northwest.

[silverback1065]

who designed those 37 shields? they look awful!

[ITB]

Some more pictures. Photos were taken July 5, 2017, unless otherwise identified.


Looking north toward a section of one of the local access roads that will link into the I-69/Sample Road interchange. This particular section is located to the east of the mainline and runs between E. Wylie Road (where the equipment is) and E. Ellis Rd. (foreground). To get a fuller understanding exactly where this is, power up Google Maps.


A slighter zoomed in perspective of the above access road route. Normally I'd expand and crop a photo like this, but the Flickr editing software is undergoing a upgrade, so no can do. Anyway, the reason I'm uploading this particular photo is the drainage conduit in the middle of roadway. Crews will be building up the ground to nearly the top of drain. That's a lot of work to undertake for a minor local road, but, I'd guess since the route runs adjacent to an interstate, it must meet certain requirements.


Looking across SR 37 from near the same position as the above photos. The area where earthwork is ongoing is for the local access road on the western side of SR 37/future I-69. The reflectors on the construction barrels really caught the camera flash. Not sure how wise it is to be driving a little Smart car on SR 37, but to each his own.


Grading and rock excavation work underway for the western local access road that will link into the I-69/Sample Road interchange; looking northwest. This particular spot was about a 1/2 mile south of the Sample Road crossing.


Just south of the Sample Road/SR 37 crossing, rocks and associated debris spilled into the southbound lanes of SR 37 after a 6:00pm blasting event. Crews brought out their beast of a front-end loader, a Caterpillar 992K, to clean it up. The 992K is one big machine; the picture doesn't do it justice.


Another perspective of the area where the blast event took place; looking southwest. At the time the photo was taken, crews had opened one lane of southbound SR 37 to traffic. The paved road is N. Wayport Road, which will become a section of the eastern local access that will link into the I-69/Sample Road interchange. This section runs north nearly up to Sample Road where a traffic roundabout will be built. Just around the bend and on a bit, the pavement comes to any end. In total, about 1/3 of the eastern access road is now paved. A lot of work remains, however, particularly between N. Wayport Road at SR 37 and E. Wylie Road (see top picture), where earthwork has yet to commence.


A more expansive perspective of the eastern access road; looking south. Here, where the picture was taken, the road cuts right through the parking lot of Nature's Way, a landscaping business. To get your bearings, just behind Nature's Way (off to the right) is the Circle K Mobil gas station and convenience mart.

Edit: Switched out one picture for another of slightly better quality; minor wording changes.

[sparker]

who designed those 37 shields? they look awful!

It's just a cookie-cutter square -- but this particular version seems to be a bit larger than normal, with a lot of space around the numbers themselves -- which gives the impression of a lot of empty white sign!  At least it's readable.  Not a lot one can do with the basic "design".

[silverback1065]

there's a user on here that had a modified Indiana SR Shield on their profile, it looked cool.  It was blue like the state flag, had the stars on it, and had indiana on the top and the number on the bottom.  We should consider a new shield design, none of which should involve the state shape in them. 

[hbelkins]

the state sure knows how to pick em 

The term you are looking for is "The lowest bidder".

This is why, when I got a new A/C and furnace, I got five estimates and threw out the lowest and highest, then looked at the other three.

I believe in a lot of states DOTs are legally-bound to take the lowest bidder.  Here in NY, there are one or two exceptions to that (e.g., a proven bad contractor or deeply flawed bid), but they are hard to prove and are rarely pursued.

And if by some turn of fate the low bid isn't accepted, expect a lawsuit.

But to be honest, most of the bidders on these projects have been around awhile and are generally known quantities. There isn't a lot of difference in the quality on most of the grade and drain projects in this area among different winning bidders.

[I-39]

So do we have a firm completion date for the I-69 Bloomington to Martinsville segment yet?

[2trailertrucker]

So do we have a firm completion date for the I-69 Bloomington to Martinsville segment yet?

Eventually.