Virginia

[ixnay]

On the DC thread use of NPS roads (Rock Creek Parkway, GWMP, B-WP, Suitland Pkwy.) as commuter routes was mentioned.

Do the Skyline Drive and BRP get much commuter traffic?

ixnay

[Mapmikey]

Skyline Drive only has 3 access points in 105 miles, so definitely no for that route.

Blue Ridge Pkwy around Asheville could see a smidge but I'm less confident it would see any around the Roanoke area.

Mapmikey

[Thing 342]

Skyline Drive only has 3 access points in 105 miles, so definitely no for that route.

Blue Ridge Pkwy around Asheville could see a smidge but I'm less confident it would see any around the Roanoke area.

Mapmikey

As far as I have been able to discern, no on both counts.

[dfnva]

For anyone on Facebook, I recommend joining the group "Northern Virginia History."  Lots of old road pics from VA -- in the last few days there have been numerous old pics of the I-495 Beltway posted with original signage.  (You may have to scroll a bit -- but worth it )

[WillWeaverRVA]

For anyone on Facebook, I recommend joining the group "Northern Virginia History."  Lots of old road pics from VA -- in the last few days there have been numerous old pics of the I-495 Beltway posted with original signage.  (You may have to scroll a bit -- but worth it )

Joined. There's some really cool stuff here, such as this:

[dfnva]

I like this sign a lot at I-495 NB at VA-7 (found in the Northern Virginia History Facebook group).

Was it a common practice for VDOT to post populations on BGS's? 

[cpzilliacus]

For anyone on Facebook, I recommend joining the group "Northern Virginia History."  Lots of old road pics from VA -- in the last few days there have been numerous old pics of the I-495 Beltway posted with original signage.  (You may have to scroll a bit -- but worth it )

Joined. There's some really cool stuff here, such as this:

VDH liked to use Frederick [Md.] as the control city on the Inner Loop of I-495 between Springfield and the American Legion Bridge.

[1995hoo]

I know nothing about Facebook, but you can find a treasure trove of old photos of the Beltway at the following link:

http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=pst.000017394611;view=1up;seq=3

It's a transcript of Congressional hearings from 1968 regarding how to improve road signs. Funny thing is, a lot of the same driver misbehavior goes on around here today.

[cpzilliacus]

I know nothing about Facebook, but you can find a treasure trove of old photos of the Beltway at the following link:

http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=pst.000017394611;view=1up;seq=3

It's a transcript of Congressional hearings from 1968 regarding how to improve road signs. Funny thing is, a lot of the same driver misbehavior goes on around here today.

Not just the Capital Beltway, either! 

Am going to have to download that document and snip-out the images with Photoshop later.

[WillWeaverRVA]

I know nothing about Facebook, but you can find a treasure trove of old photos of the Beltway at the following link:

http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=pst.000017394611;view=1up;seq=3

It's a transcript of Congressional hearings from 1968 regarding how to improve road signs. Funny thing is, a lot of the same driver misbehavior goes on around here today.

Not just the Capital Beltway, either! 

Am going to have to download that document and snip-out the images with Photoshop later.

Indeed, I'm already skimming through and seeing some great photos of old signage from New York City, Los Angeles, and other areas. There's a lot of really cool stuff in here.

[1995hoo]

I hadn't mentioned the other stuff because this thread is the Virginia thread, but I also didn't look all that closely at the California photos because I've never been there and thus they don't fascinate me in the same way the evolution of the Beltway does.

[adventurernumber1]

I like this sign a lot at I-495 NB at VA-7 (found in the Northern Virginia History Facebook group).

Was it a common practice for VDOT to post populations on BGS's? 

If posting populations was a regular practice, they'd have to replace signs crazily frequently due to the fact a city's population is always changing, whether the change be big or small. It probably wouldn't be a huge deal if a city's population changed by just a matter of a few hundred, but say a city grew from 30k to 40k. That would require some replacing 

Also, they could format the population as I just did (ex. 40k which stands for 40,000), to avoid having the exact specific population, and then the city's population changing by a few hundred going up and down all the time would cause zero problem.

[1995hoo]

Those signs are from the 1960s. Back then, they probably would have written "40M" to denote 40,000. The use of "M" derived from Roman numerals, where "M" denoted 1,000. The use of "K" or "k" to denote thousands was less common in the USA until the mid- to late 1980s, when the use of "KB" and "MB" in the computer context caused a gradual shift. In the accounting world, I believe "M" to denote a thousand is still common.

I have no idea whether wider knowledge of the metric system, with its use of "k" in the context of kilograms and kilometres (and its far less common use of "M" for "mega-" to denote a million, as in a megagram, or Mg, being a million grams or a thousand kilograms), contributed.

Either way, there is normally no reason why the population would be at all useful on a BGS for navigation purposes unless, perhaps, it might help distinguish between two similarly-named places (perhaps Washington, Virginia, versus Washington, DC?). But I'm sure there are better ways than population to distinguish that sort of thing.

[ixnay]

Skyline Drive only has 3 access points in 105 miles, so definitely no for that route.

Blue Ridge Pkwy around Asheville could see a smidge but I'm less confident it would see any around the Roanoke area.

Mapmikey

As far as I have been able to discern, no on both counts.

Does the Colonial Parkway (fairly close to the Hampton Roads commuter zone) get a workout in that regard?

ixnay

[froggie]

Not really.  Folks might use it as a shortcut between Yorktown and Williamsburg but there's not a lot of traffic that actually tries to do such.  Because it lacks direct connections to both I-64 and most of the Yorktown Naval Weapons Station, it's not used much for commuting.

[NE2]

Some random chump at Wikipedia says:

The lower speed limits, enforced by the National Park Service law enforcement rangers, coupled with few exits, combine to help preserve the road for tourists and protect wildlife by making it an unattractive short-cut for most local traffic and commuters.

I suppose it could be useful between the Middle Peninsula and Williamsburg, but 238 to I-64 isn't much longer.

[WillWeaverRVA]

Some random chump at Wikipedia says:

The lower speed limits, enforced by the National Park Service law enforcement rangers, coupled with few exits, combine to help preserve the road for tourists and protect wildlife by making it an unattractive short-cut for most local traffic and commuters.

I suppose it could be useful between the Middle Peninsula and Williamsburg, but 238 to I-64 isn't much longer.

Yeah, the only reason I would use the Colonial Parkway as a commuter route between Williamsburg and Gloucester would be if both I-64 and US 60 were severely congested.

[1995hoo]

When my brother was attending William & Mary and I was visiting him from either Charlottesville or Durham, we used to use the Colonial Parkway a lot because it was the most direct route from the College over to the Cheatham Annex, where there was a golf course that was open to the public. It wasn't much of a course, and in fact two fairways actually crossed each other, but it was $10 for all-you-could-play so it was perfect for students. My brother was over there so frequently the guards would know he was coming from the sound of his car (a 1974 Beetle) and they'd be waving him through before he even reached the gate.

But we seldom encountered any other cars on that road. It just wasn't used much. 

[roadman65]

Those signs are from the 1960s. Back then, they probably would have written "40M" to denote 40,000. The use of "M" derived from Roman numerals, where "M" denoted 1,000. The use of "K" or "k" to denote thousands was less common in the USA until the mid- to late 1980s, when the use of "KB" and "MB" in the computer context caused a gradual shift. In the accounting world, I believe "M" to denote a thousand is still common.

I have no idea whether wider knowledge of the metric system, with its use of "k" in the context of kilograms and kilometres (and its far less common use of "M" for "mega-" to denote a million, as in a megagram, or Mg, being a million grams or a thousand kilograms), contributed.

Either way, there is normally no reason why the population would be at all useful on a BGS for navigation purposes unless, perhaps, it might help distinguish between two similarly-named places (perhaps Washington, Virginia, versus Washington, DC?). But I'm sure there are better ways than population to distinguish that sort of thing.

Ontario along the QEW uses population approaching all large cities along its route.   For the Ontario Ministry of Transportation it is to let drivers know the big population centers for tourists interests as well as travelers.

I imagine that VDOT was doing it for the same purpose at the time. 

I also remember seeing those type of notations along I-95 for Fredericksburg, Ashland, and Emporia back in the 70's on many exit guides.

Also, I remember how the beltway exit numbers were placed beneath the signs and not on tabs above and especially on overheads where the exit number was placed to the side of the road next to the sign supports.  The above photos bring back those memories.

[1995hoo]

Has it been signed as USBR 1 yet?

I presume that's a bike route reference? I didn't notice. I'll try to remember to look next time I go that way, but it probably won't be this week.

Yep. USBR 1 used to go through Fort Belvoir, but since the Feds got uppity it's had a gap. Mulligan has been set to be USBR 1 for a while.

Following up, I was on this road the other day (it's now Jeff Todd Way, as noted above, confirmed by signs) and the bike path was open but was marked simply with the normal rectangular green "Bike Route" sign with a picture of a bike. No number posted. Interestingly, there was also a "Keep Right Except to Pass" sign posted at the Telegraph Road end of the bike trail (its positioning strongly suggests it's not aimed at motorized traffic).

[Thing 342]

Some random chump at Wikipedia says:

The lower speed limits, enforced by the National Park Service law enforcement rangers, coupled with few exits, combine to help preserve the road for tourists and protect wildlife by making it an unattractive short-cut for most local traffic and commuters.

I suppose it could be useful between the Middle Peninsula and Williamsburg, but 238 to I-64 isn't much longer.

Yeah, the only reason I would use the Colonial Parkway as a commuter route between Williamsburg and Gloucester would be if both I-64 and US 60 were severely congested.

I occasionally use the parkway to get home from Williamsburg (specifically the theme parks), but it adds ~10-15 minutes to my trip.

[1995hoo]

The Washington Post has this rendering of one of the "Active Traffic Management" gantries planned for I-66. I cannot imagine VDOT ever allowing different speed limits for different lanes absent some sort of barrier like the one on the Beltway.




Link to full piece: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dr-gridlock/wp/2014/11/12/road-work-starting-for-i-66-traffic-management-program/

[mtantillo]

The Washington Post has this rendering of one of the "Active Traffic Management" gantries planned for I-66. I cannot imagine VDOT ever allowing different speed limits for different lanes absent some sort of barrier like the one on the Beltway.




Link to full piece: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dr-gridlock/wp/2014/11/12/road-work-starting-for-i-66-traffic-management-program/

I noticed they are installing a lot of the infrastructure (control boxes, ramp meters) inside the beltway on I-66.

Differential speed limits that are legally enforcable are not used in the US. Different speeds of an advisory nature only can be used (they are used in Minnesota). Really what they are trying to do is get people to ease off the gas before approaching an area with stopped traffic. Just like on the NJ Turnpike where reducing from 65 to 45 really means "something is up, so maybe go 65 instead of 80".

Incidentally, that is an old photo of I-66. This is eastbound approaching Exit 52, and the signs are different now. Exit 53 only leads to NB Route 28, so there is one less control city on the left sign and a cardinal direction next to the shield. The Exit direction sign for Exit 52 has been completely replaced with a new one stating "29 to 28 south".

[1995hoo]

The new signs are also in Clearview. But I don't think the BGSs are the point.

[ARMOURERERIC]

For anyone on Facebook, I recommend joining the group "Northern Virginia History."  Lots of old road pics from VA -- in the last few days there have been numerous old pics of the I-495 Beltway posted with original signage.  (You may have to scroll a bit -- but worth it )

Joined. There's some really cool stuff here, such as this:

Can you please post a link.  I went to that site and there were few photos, I must have the wrong site.