Is it legal to buy a new car in Mexico and bring it back to the US?

[corco]

I met a gentleman last year, at the hotel I work at in Tacoma. He had a Mercedes Benz B class, which has never been sold in the US. His car was registered in California. He bought the car straight-up in Vancouver, went to a registered importer in California, was able to convince the local registration office that the vehicle met US safety standards -- and bam. Here's a photo I took. Judging by the plate series (starting with 5), the car has been in the US for some time.

Canada's standards are more in line with those of the United States. Local car dealers around here buy used vehicles from Canada all the time, and resell them to the American market. It's not uncommon to see used cars with speedometers in kilometers around here.

For sure. Most American cars are virtually indistinguishable from their Canadian counterparts (sometimes, the lights are different, but that's rare). The catch here is that the B class was never sold in the US (only recently as an electric car). There's nothing substantially similar to it here. The safety standards are basically the same in both countries, but it's harder to prove your point about the car being safe when there's no American counterpart to compare it to.

The B-Class, like the Nissan Micra, was crash tested in the U.S. for potential sale. So it's on the list of legal Canadian imports.

Here's some evidence of that: http://www.benzworld.org/forums/407304-jotaeh.html

[US 41]

As to the OP, you could attempt to prove that the Nissan Tsuru is substantially similar to Sentras of the past. They look identical, after all. Maybe your local registration office is easily persuaded.

I don't think my BMV cares that much honestly. I might have to just stop in one sometime and ask them about it. I don't think my BMV has probably ever dealt with plating foreign cars. My BMV seems to plate anything as long as you have the bill of sale and your money.

I think my biggest problem might be when I try to enter the US with the car. I'm not sure what I might run into there. I would hate for them to confiscate something brand new with less than 200 miles on it I just paid $7800 for.

[NJRoadfan]

They won't let the car into the country without the proper paperwork.

[briantroutman]

I'd go further than "substantially similar" . The Tsuru is a 1993 Nissan Sentra that you can still buy brand new today. I suspect it's been de-contented to make it cheaper to build, and there have probably been a few minor refinements, but otherwise, it's the same as it was 23 years ago–much the same way and for the same reasons you could buy a brand new '70s-era Volkswagen Beetle in Mexico up until 2004.

And like the Beetle, you might be able to engage in the same chicanery to import one semi legally. When the old Beetle was still in production in Mexico, a few specialty companies were taking the chassis of junked '60s and '70s German Volkswagens that were legally imported to the US decades ago, then somehow moving its floor pan (and VIN plate) onto a new Mexican Beetle–so that as far as the US and state DOTs were concerned, you had a 1967 Volkswagen that just happened to have all brand-new 2003 parts.

Since the Sentra is a unibody car, it might be a more difficult swap (and more blatantly illegal), but you might be able to somehow transfer certain parts from a junked 1993 Sentra so that US authorities would recognize the car as a 1993 Sentra and not a 2016 Tsuru. But by that time, you'd certainly have much more money into the process than just buying a completely legal 2016 Nissan Versa at your local dealer.

[corco]

I wonder how that would work - if you drove into Mexico in a 1993 Sentra, told customs you were going down to Mexico to get the car restored, which while an odd thing to do would be completely legal, and drove back up in a 2016 Tsuru with swapped VINs? Obviously the VIN-swapping would be illegal, but what method would they have to identify it - especially since we don't have exit controls in the U.S.?

Or, for instance, if I lived in a state with no emissions testing, and drove a U.S. titled and registered 2016 Nissan Frontier to Mexico, and came back with the same 2016 Nissan Frontier, now with a Nissan diesel engine not available in the U.S., would that be legal? What level of car modification is legal to undertake in Mexico with a U.S. plated car?

[US 41]

I wonder how that would work - if you drove into Mexico in a 1993 Sentra, told customs you were going down to Mexico to get the car restored, which while an odd thing to do would be completely legal, and drove back up in a 2016 Tsuru with swapped VINs? Obviously the VIN-swapping would be illegal, but what method would they have to identify it - especially since we don't have exit controls in the U.S.?

Or, for instance, if I lived in a state with no emissions testing, and drove a U.S. titled and registered 2016 Nissan Frontier to Mexico, and came back with the same 2016 Nissan Frontier, now with a Nissan diesel engine not available in the U.S., would that be legal? What level of car modification is legal to undertake in Mexico with a U.S. plated car?

It might work in a border town or in Baja, but I'm not sure about the rest of Mexico since you would have to import the car. Maybe I'm over thinking this.

[US 41]

I found this video online. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1kXQDDuMZM
If I was able to get an official letter from Nissan stating that its Versa meets US, EPA, and DOT standards apparently I can import the car legally. If I understood right I also won't have to pay duty on it since it's Mexican manufactured. The problem is that I probably won't be able to get the letter from the manufacturer (Nissan), but it's worth looking in to.

[corco]

There is absolutely no way the new Nissan Tsuru meets current standards. You'd be looking at retrofitting airbags, something on the front to help with pedestrian safety, a completely reinforced body that crumples, an engine that isn't an ancient Renault engine and meets modern emission standards, etc. And that's just the obvious stuff.

There's a reason cars today don't look like cars in 1993 here - it largely has to do with safety regulations. A Tsuru upgraded to 2016 safety standards is something I can't even picture.

Also, you can usually find a base Versa in the U.S. for about $10,000 if that is what you want.

[kphoger]

I wonder how that would work - if you drove into Mexico in a 1993 Sentra, told customs you were going down to Mexico to get the car restored, which while an odd thing to do would be completely legal

Why would you tell customs that?  If you're talking about the border bridge, then they don't care what you plan to do in México as long as it isn't illegal.  If it's the inland customs office you're talking about, then all they care about is that you legally own the vehicle and will be returning it to the USA before your permit expires.

and drove back up in a 2016 Tsuru with swapped VINs? Obviously the VIN-swapping would be illegal, but what method would they have to identify it - especially since we don't have exit controls in the U.S.?

Your issue here would not be US customs, but rather Mexican customs.  If you had the work done within the border zone, than neither the Americans nor the Mexicans would have any record of your VIN having crossed the border.  However, if you actually temporarily imported your vehicle to México and had the work done south of the border zone, then you'd be dead in the water.  You would have no vehicle with the VIN on your import permit to return to the US, meaning you'd forfeit the deposit you had put down and likely be black-listed from ever driving into México again.  Either way, though, you'd have a vehicle in the States whose VIN didn't match your title and registration, so I'm not sure how you'd go about renewing your tags when they expired.

Or, for instance, if I lived in a state with no emissions testing, and drove a U.S. titled and registered 2016 Nissan Frontier to Mexico, and came back with the same 2016 Nissan Frontier, now with a Nissan diesel engine not available in the U.S., would that be legal? What level of car modification is legal to undertake in Mexico with a U.S. plated car?

If you had a US-registered car, drove it to México for an engine swap, then returned to the US...nobody would ever know.  It would be no different than having a tire changed, as far as the authorities were concerned.  The VIN they check is under the windshield or on the door frame.

[Max Rockatansky]

I like how the seats have been somewhat modernized. 

Love that big rubbery manual shifter, that's a relic in of itself.  At least you get an actual gauge that shows your water temperature and a warning light to boot.  I like the paint delete front bumper....thought it was interesting that they made sure to emphasize that it is indeed a 16 valve inline four.

I'm surprised nobody has even thrown out the Spark, doesn't that start somewhere around 12K for the base model?

[SP Cook]

I think some of you are selling your local DMV very short.  It is all in the computers today.  You show up with a bill of sale and $$ for a grey market import and the computer is going to reject the transaction.    I don't care how far out in the country and unsophisticated you think the local office is, there are boxes that must be ticked and so on or the edits in the program will just reject the transaction.

And even if a DMV does not catch is, the insurance company will.  Every company runs a VIN check with the NICB and would reject such a car.

The only major difference between US and Canadian models (aside from Metric issues) is passive restraints.     If you can show it meets US standards, the US DOT will allow importation.  But your local DMV needs a document from the US DOT that certifies that.    I have seen originally Canadian vehicles for sale from time to time.  I will say that generally just the Metric spedo will cut it a couple hundred under a similar US vehicle in resale.   I have seen lots of Florida plated cars with dealer add on labels from Ontario, but I'm sure these snowbirds have filled out the proper paperwork. 

Other countries, including Mexico, do not meet US safety or emission standards.  Even if it is a model sold in the US, one sold in Mexico is not the same.  The auto companies know where a vehicle is going to be sold and have different production codes.  It might even be made on the same production line, but it will leave out US mandated safety equipment, and US emissions devices (both physical devices and different toggles in the engine control software, in fact a lot of this hipster "tuner" stuff is just reflashing the software to a third world setting).  If you go to a car lot in Mexico you will often see a sticker that the dealer is supposed to remove in prep that says "FOR EXPORT" on US made vehicles, similar to that weird tape the trunk shut deal that US dealers are supposed to remove at prep from Mexico made cars, but often do not.    The US DOT, save impractical nitpicky loopholes, will not issue a clearance for a car from Mexico.

However, there used to be a guy in Cincinnati who, pretty openly sold brand new Beetles (which were made in Mexico until 2003 and Buses (which were made in Brazil until last year and available for purchase in Mexico) .  He would take a worn out Beetle down there and do a VIN swap.  Apparently he had been around the tree with the government enough times on the idea that he had "repaired" the car in Mexico (by replacing every single part in it) and he was so much trouble and so small they let him by with it. 

And, the people who live across from my daughter in Lexington, KY, have a Kentucky plated VW Caddy (a Type 9K in VW internal speak) and what I am pretty sure is a Mexican spec Toyota, and have guests that have a Chevy Tornado, also Kentucky plated.   How they did that, I don't know.

[briantroutman]

Your issue here would not be US customs, but rather Mexican customs.  If you had the work done within the border zone, than neither the Americans nor the Mexicans would have any record of your VIN having crossed the border.  However, if you actually temporarily imported your vehicle to México and had the work done south of the border zone, then you'd be dead in the water.  You would have no vehicle with the VIN on your import permit to return to the US, meaning you'd forfeit the deposit you had put down and likely be black-listed from ever driving into México again. 

I think you're misunderstanding–the idea would be to drive a '93 Sentra into Mexico, then move its VIN plate to a 2016 Tsuru. So you would have a VIN that matches the temporary import record. The issue would be whether the swap could be done professionally enough to avoid either the Mexican or US authorities noticing that the VIN had been tampered with.

But still, I don't see any reason that such a ruse shouldn't be done in the border zone anyway–to avoid suspicion.

As to issues with registration in your home state, I know that every state operates differently, but most I'm familiar with require a VIN verification only when a vehicle has been brought in from out of state and is being registered for the first time. Even then (in PA at least) verification can be done by any state-licensed inspection garage. I'm sure it would't be too hard to find a "Lenny's Discount Auto Repair"  where they wouldn't know (or care) that the VIN plate had been swapped. But as long as you stayed in the same state, you could continue to renew your '93 Sentra registration forever with no questions asked.

[kphoger]

I think you're misunderstanding–the idea would be to drive a '93 Sentra into Mexico, then move its VIN plate to a 2016 Tsuru. So you would have a VIN that matches the temporary import record. The issue would be whether the swap could be done professionally enough to avoid either the Mexican or US authorities noticing that the VIN had been tampered with.

But still, I don't see any reason that such a ruse shouldn't be done in the border zone anyway–to avoid suspicion.

Ah, gotcha.  But then you'd have a VIN on a different model of vehicle than the one you brought into México.  The import paperwork includes manufacturer, model year, and VIN.  Huge red flag.

As you state, though, importation only applies south of the border zone.  Any modifications done in Nuevo Laredo, for example, would be off the radar as far as Mexican and American customs go.  However, a VIN plate ending up on a different model of vehicle would then cause issues if you ever moved to another state and had to have it inspected for registration.

[briantroutman]

Ah, gotcha.  But then you'd have a VIN on a different model of vehicle than the one you brought into México.  The import paperwork includes manufacturer, model year, and VIN.  Huge red flag.

The vehicle prompting this discussion is the Nissan Tsuru–which, apart from a minor change to the grille, is visually identical to the car sold in this country 20-odd years ago as the Nissan Sentra. So if you peel off the "TSURU"  on the back and slap on the "SENTRA"  badge from your '93, you'd have paperwork that says "1993 Nissan Sentra"  with a certain VIN and a vehicle that matches that description. Is someone going to say "This car looks too nice to be a '93?"



It's like the situation with the gray market Mexican Volkswagens which were imported into the country in the '80s and '90s–if the VINs match, would most people be able to tell a '75 from a '95?

[Avalanchez71]

Goes to show you that regulations add thousands of dollars.

[kphoger]

The vehicle prompting this discussion is the Nissan Tsuru–which, apart from a minor change to the grille, is visually identical to the car sold in this country 20-odd years ago as the Nissan Sentra. So if you peel off the "TSURU"  on the back and slap on the "SENTRA"  badge from your '93, you'd have paperwork that says "1993 Nissan Sentra"  with a certain VIN and a vehicle that matches that description. Is someone going to say "This car looks too nice to be a '93?"

We're assuming ALL of the following are true:

1) Your Mexican buyer is willing to own a car that cannot be legally registered in México (because it entered the country with either no paperwork or temporary paperwork), or your Mexican buyer is just like you in reverse (willing to trade vehicles and also try and trick the Mexican authorities).

2) You successfully swap the VIN plate under the windshield and the VIN sticker on the door frame without any evidence of tampering; by the way, they take photo record of your vehicle upon permit cancellation from three different angles, including those VIN locations.

3) Nobody at customs (assuming you did a temporary import) catches on that the vehicle in front of them is not the vehicle on your permit being canceled.

3) Nobody during any future inspection in the US catches on that the vehicle in front of them is not the vehicle on your title either.

I suppose this might theoretically be possible, IF all of the above were true,  but the chances of that are fairly slim.  Also, if the person you sell to in México is NOT doing the exact same as you in reverse, then he would need to get unofficial license plates through an organization like ONAPPAFA.  These organizations are halfway to organized crime, as they strong-arm the authorities into letting illegal vehicles slide due to public opposition to the current vehicle import regulations.  Those who deal with these organizations are generally poor people with very limited means to secure a decent car through legal means, which means they're also not likely to own a vehicle you'd actually want to have.

For what it's worth, here is what a temporary importation permit looks like.  As you can see, it include model year, manufacturer, and full VIN.

[vdeane]

Also of note - US customs DOES, at least occasionally, run exit inspections on the Mexican border, and plans to make them permanent.

[kphoger]

And, in case anyone is wondering how closely border officials check the VIN plates on vehicles...  I personally know someone who ran into a headache with border officials because he'd had major work done on his vehicle and so the VIN sticker on the door frame didn't match the VIN plate under the windshield.  He and the official were at an impasse until the official gave up trying to understand the whole story and just waved him through; if she hadn't, it's likely he wouldn't have been allowed entry.

[SteveG1988]

I'd go further than "substantially similar" . The Tsuru is a 1993 Nissan Sentra that you can still buy brand new today. I suspect it's been de-contented to make it cheaper to build, and there have probably been a few minor refinements, but otherwise, it's the same as it was 23 years ago–much the same way and for the same reasons you could buy a brand new '70s-era Volkswagen Beetle in Mexico up until 2004.

And like the Beetle, you might be able to engage in the same chicanery to import one semi legally. When the old Beetle was still in production in Mexico, a few specialty companies were taking the chassis of junked '60s and '70s German Volkswagens that were legally imported to the US decades ago, then somehow moving its floor pan (and VIN plate) onto a new Mexican Beetle–so that as far as the US and state DOTs were concerned, you had a 1967 Volkswagen that just happened to have all brand-new 2003 parts.

Since the Sentra is a unibody car, it might be a more difficult swap (and more blatantly illegal), but you might be able to somehow transfer certain parts from a junked 1993 Sentra so that US authorities would recognize the car as a 1993 Sentra and not a 2016 Tsuru. But by that time, you'd certainly have much more money into the process than just buying a completely legal 2016 Nissan Versa at your local dealer.

This mini was imported with forged numbers. It is a 2000, but was imported as a 25 or older mini. Once discovered, the car has to be destroyed. Since it has no legal identity in terms of a Vin #, they cannot ever link it back to a proper vin.

The VW pan swap is legal, because you are still keeping the chassis the same as a 1960s VW. In a way it is more akin to restoration with new-old stock parts.

It can even happen with cars like the pre-production vipers that were donated to schools, and are not road-worthy in the sense of smog and safety.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/news/a7277/chrysler-crushing-first-vipers-video/

[roadman]

Goes to show you that car companies use regulations as an excuse to add thousands of dollars.

FIFY

[US 41]

I hate all of our stupid regulations, especially ones created by the EPA. It makes everything here so much more expensive and it makes us even less competitive with the rest of the world.

Obviously making a GM vehicle to Mexican standards is a lot cheaper to do in Mexico with cheaper wages, etc. Which is why they have a huge plant in Saltillo. Plus in Saltillo you don't have the to worry about meeting EPA standards for emissions from the factory into the air.  I'm sure Mexico has some standards, but I know for a fact they're not as high. And since everything is already cheaper to produce in Saltillo, why not just build cars down there that meet American standards too?

On a side note Ford also announced this year that they were going to build a new plant in San Luis Potosi.

[kkt]

The air pollution and safety regulations are a minor reason cars are more expensive to make here.  The major reason is workers in Mexico don't get paid nearly as much.

[SP Cook]

The air pollution and safety regulations are a minor reason cars are more expensive to make here.  The major reason is workers in Mexico don't get paid nearly as much.

The UAW claims that labor costs represent only 10% of a car's costs.  The NY Times believes that this figure was somewhat understated and believes it is about 15%.   

In any event the UAW cites $40/hour as its standard wage cost (not including benefits) while Mexican wages are about 1/10th of that, with much less benefits.

Regulations have two cost factors relative to cars.  First, of course, are those related to the product itself.  A car, no matter where made, has to meet the standards of the place it is to be sold.  This is true, but it is also true that every such regulation add to the costs.  It is certainly a fair statement to understand that every person's material wealth is going to be less every time yet another regulation is passed.  Many people, including apparently the OP, would be quite happy with a product without the current enviomentally extreme devices.  I certainly would.

But most importantly, is the crushing burden of US regulations on the operation of a factory, mill, mine, or whatever.  These regulations only need be met in the US.  The EPA, and other regulators, kill 100s of 1000s of jobs every year with more and more burdens that must be passed on to the consumer.  Since consumers will go for items of the lowest price, job creators will move their jobs to places with more reasonable regulations. 

So it is certainly far to understand that, even if so called "Trans-plants" paid US level wages, one, a product many people desire such as the car in question, without all these "modern" features, could be made, but for government.  And, two, any product (including those that meet US standards)  can be made more economically because of the absense of job killing regulations.   Or both.

It is easy to blame low paid workers for the transplants.  They are only a small part of the causes.

[vdeane]

Those regulations are, however, a major reason why new cars cost so much these days.  All those extra airbags, automatic braking, etc. aren't cheap.  Plus all the extra material to meet crash standards add weight to the car, which requires more R&D resources if the companies want to meet mileage standards.  The extra bulk needed to meet crash standards made it more difficult to see, leading to the backup camera mandate (and the invention of side cameras).  The crash standards also make repairs more expensive; when a car crumples, even what used to be a minor fender bender can total the car (not to mention the complexity of getting at the components of a modern car).

Normally I'm all in favor of having regulations to protect the environment and consumers (lord knows they're needed, given how badly corporations act if not restrained), but when it comes to cars, it's been getting ridiculous.  We're at the point where the automakers are doing the equivalent of adjusting the margins and line spacing to meet a page count (the massive phase out of manuals is because the modern mileage standards can only be met by adding a large number of gears and telling the computer to upshift too soon).  I think it's interesting that US car regulations are stricter than Europe's... normally, it's the other way around!

[Scott5114]

The price of new cars has actually decreased since 1996 relative to inflation.