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Would it be fesible to toll I-49?

Started by TheArkansasRoadgeek, March 13, 2017, 03:06:22 PM

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TheArkansasRoadgeek

Ok, so why not have what I would call "Litter Tolls" on our highways? The gist is, If you have the money to smoke, drink, and buy fast food you surely have the money to contribute to a litter toll, if you will. The idea is to cut down on litter, since taking out of gas taxes for the funds is no biggie we should do that.

That brings way more resistance though... Just a thought I had.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!
Well, that's just like your opinion man...


Rothman

The idea that everyone litters that eats fast food is pretty specious.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

TheArkansasRoadgeek

Quote from: Rothman on March 16, 2017, 12:08:36 PM
The idea that everyone litters that eats fast food is pretty specious.

Yes, I did notice the idea was flawed, but it is just a thought for a more noticible impact on what the cost is and how much manpower it takes for litter control in the state.

I thought of people that pay the toll even though they are not one of the many litter bugs, they would just compinsate for the people that have major amounts of debris in the road that don't bother to stop and either secure better (before it happens) or calls and lets the litter crew know of the obstruction.
Well, that's just like your opinion man...

Brandon

Quote from: Bobby5280 on March 15, 2017, 01:19:47 AM
Isn't at least some of I-49 between Fort Smith and Texarkana supposed to be built on top of existing US-71? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't know of any US highway that is designated along a toll road.

US-51 says hello with I-90 and I-39.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

Brandon

Quote from: IDriveArkansas on March 13, 2017, 03:06:22 PM
So, I understand why tolls aren't popular in Arkansas, but it would be great if AHTD was honest about where money was going and we could have even better transportation infrastructure.

NUMBERS: They want to charge $5 in the study they did about tolling, but why couldn't they charge what other states like Florida charges? :confused: When I went to FL for the summer, I saw they charged around $1.50 per toll (obviously depending on whether you stay on the Tollway for the entirty or not). Point being, is that why can't AHTD charge similar amounts? The income wouldn't be just  our state pop. that would be contributing to the toll revenue. MO and LA would be also! (As in, the residents that take I-49 of the two states, including us).

I wouldn't mind paying for direct connection, but only at a reasonable price. We aren't that big of a state, so why would we to have a too pricey toll?

Sounds like a pretty good option, especially when you consider that this section of interstate will be a large connector between two already completed sections of I-49.  Make it a ticket type turnpike (like the Ohio Turnpike) and it should do just fine, IMHO.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

TheArkansasRoadgeek

Quote from: Brandon on March 16, 2017, 12:39:44 PM
Quote from: IDriveArkansas on March 13, 2017, 03:06:22 PM
So, I understand why tolls aren't popular in Arkansas, but it would be great if AHTD was honest about where money was going and we could have even better transportation infrastructure.

NUMBERS: They want to charge $5 in the study they did about tolling, but why couldn't they charge what other states like Florida charges? :confused: When I went to FL for the summer, I saw they charged around $1.50 per toll (obviously depending on whether you stay on the Tollway for the entirty or not). Point being, is that why can't AHTD charge similar amounts? The income wouldn't be just  our state pop. that would be contributing to the toll revenue. MO and LA would be also! (As in, the residents that take I-49 of the two states, including us).

I wouldn't mind paying for direct connection, but only at a reasonable price. We aren't that big of a state, so why would we to have a too pricey toll?

Sounds like a pretty good option, especially when you consider that this section of interstate will be a large connector between two already completed sections of I-49.  Make it a ticket type turnpike (like the Ohio Turnpike) and it should do just fine, IMHO.

I wouldn't mind tolling I-49 for maybe to $2-3.50. What do residents of a state that has either a turnpike or just a tolled road in general feel is a reasonable toll rate(s)?
Well, that's just like your opinion man...

TheArkansasRoadgeek

Here it is guys! I recieved an email form District four of the AHTD and this is what they said:

Trenton —

I am the District Engineer for District 4, which covers State Highways in Sebastian County.  As such, your inquiry was forwarded to me for review and response.  I appreciate your email and the opportunity to answer some of your questions.

Your email doesn't specifically indicate which area of Hwy. 71 in Sebastian County you are referring to, but we have upcoming work that might address some of your concerns.  Our local maintenance forces are scheduled to remove and repave the top layer of asphalt in short, select areas north and south of the new I-549 interchange (between Fort Smith and Greenwood) this summer.  Keep in mind that this is maintenance work and will not consist of a large scale project.  We also have a 2019 Construction project that will overlay close to 4 miles of Hwy 71B (Towson Ave.) between Hwy 271 and Hwy 64.

As for your questions about expected pavement life, the true "life-span"  of pavement varies.  Because of the differing materials around the state, some asphalt sections of highway last longer than others.  The materials used in NWA yield asphalt that is relatively maintenance free for up to 20 years, while the material in the River Valley seems to begin needing preventative maintenance work within 7 to 10 years.  In reality, we would love to have the funds to do major work on every section of highway at least every 15 years.  And while I wish that I could tell you these highway conditions are rare, that isn't the case.  We continually monitor all state highways and can easily identify several that would benefit from an overlay or reconstruction.  However, we simply do not have the necessary funds to improve these highways to the level that you (or we) desire.  With the Department having $20 billion in needed highway improvements over the next 10 years and only anticipating $4 billion in revenue to meet those needs in the same timeframe, not all needs or wants can be met as they are identified.  As it is with all sustainable organizations, we must operate within our budget.  Knowing that reconstruction or repaving of Hwy 71 is not an option at this time, we will continue to preserve and prolong the life of the highway with routine maintenance practices.

Again, I do appreciate your comments and interest in the highway system.  I hope this information sheds some light on the infrastructure challenges that our state and nation are facing.

Sincerely,
cid:image004.png@01D092EC.D44986F0

Chad Adams  | District Four Engineer
Arkansas State Highway and Transportation Department
P.O. Box 11170 | Fort Smith, AR  72917
(: 479.484.5306
*: Chad.Adams@ahtd.ar.gov  |  www.arkansashighways.com




From: Trenton Wallace [mailto:twallace@fsfuture.org]
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2017 11:05 AM
To: Public Information Office
Subject: Future Plans for US 71

   
Click here to Reply, Reply to all, or Forward
Well, that's just like your opinion man...

TheArkansasRoadgeek

They've wanted to toll I-40 for a while. But, FHWA won't allow it!  :banghead: :clap:
Well, that's just like your opinion man...

Bobby5280

#33
QuoteThe Indian Nation is pretty light on traffic in general, but the portion south of US 69 is particularly useless with less than 2000 VPD. And, it really would have been better if it was a little more direct of a routing between DFW and Tulsa and if it replaced US 75 north of Henryetta with a full freeway all the way to Tulsa. The Cimarron also doesn't carry much and doesn't even have the Cherokee excuse of fixing a crooked routing. The southern portion of the Muskogee doesn't carry much either and largely duplicates US 64. Would have been perfectly reasonable to just end it at US 62.

I forget where I heard the statistic, but my understanding is the Will Rogers Turnpike and Turner Turnpike are the only ones in the OTA system which turn a profit. All the others apparently don't have the traffic/toll amounts to be self-sufficient.

It's arguable which OTA turnpikes are just a waste of road bed. I imagine the traffic counts on the Indian Nation Turnpike have to be miniscule. Same goes for the little 2-lane Chickasaw Turnpike between Ada and Sulphur.

Ultimately any super highway has to go somewhere. Certain politicians and powerful/connected citizens have wanted to use turnpikes as a means of economic development rather than their normal purpose of getting people from point a to point b faster. That was clearly the motivation behind scrapped turnpike proposals like ones from Duncan to Davis and Snyder to Clinton in the late 1990's. Oklahoma might have more turnpike mileage if the powers that be looked at more obviously productive travel corridors rather than just build an expensive road out in the middle of nowhere. For instance, Oklahoma City is in the geographical center of the nation's highway system. I think there should be a diagonal spoke across OKC from Southeast (Texarkana) going Northwest (Denver). Such a road could connect a lot of communities in the state and be more complimentary to the national highway grid. But the powers that be can't even get major corridor ROW secured in the OKC metro much less do anything logical like that.

Quote from: IDriveArkansasThere is just a lot of negitivity associated with tolls and tolling a road around here. Mainly truckers and the trucking industry, but let's not forget about the person who has a $6.58 pay-check to live off of. That is why tolls are so unaccepted, if we had a little higher income rates we might be able to get away with it. But, our state and its residents are dead-ass broke!

Personal income growth in real dollars has been pretty stagnant over the past 20 or so years. It has not kept pace with the very high inflation rates in things like health care costs, college tuition, fuel and infrastructure.

TheArkansasRoadgeek

Quote from: Bobby5280 on March 16, 2017, 03:16:44 PM
QuoteThe Indian Nation is pretty light on traffic in general, but the portion south of US 69 is particularly useless with less than 2000 VPD. And, it really would have been better if it was a little more direct of a routing between DFW and Tulsa and if it replaced US 75 north of Henryetta with a full freeway all the way to Tulsa. The Cimarron also doesn't carry much and doesn't even have the Cherokee excuse of fixing a crooked routing. The southern portion of the Muskogee doesn't carry much either and largely duplicates US 64. Would have been perfectly reasonable to just end it at US 62.

I forget where I heard the statistic, but my understanding is the Will Rogers Turnpike and Turner Turnpike are the only ones in the OTA system which turn a profit. All the others apparently don't have the traffic/toll amounts to be self-sufficient.

It's arguable which OTA turnpikes are just a waste of road bed. I imagine the traffic counts on the Indian Nation Turnpike have to be miniscule. Same goes for the little 2-lane Chickasaw Turnpike between Ada and Sulphur.

Ultimately any super highway has to go somewhere. Certain politicians and powerful/connected citizens have wanted to use turnpikes as a means of economic development rather than their normal purpose of getting people from point a to point b faster. That was clearly the motivation behind scrapped turnpike proposals like ones from Duncan to Davis and Snyder to Clinton in the late 1990's. Oklahoma might have more turnpike mileage if the powers that be looked at more obviously productive travel corridors rather than just build an expensive road out in the middle of nowhere. For instance, Oklahoma City is in the geographical center of the nation's highway system. I think there should be a diagonal spoke across OKC from Southeast (Texarkana) going Northwest (Denver). Such a road could connect a lot of communities in the state and be more complimentary to the national highway grid. But the powers that be can't even get major corridor ROW secured in the OKC metro much less do anything logical like that.

Quote from: IDriveArkansasThere is just a lot of negitivity associated with tolls and tolling a road around here. Mainly truckers and the trucking industry, but let's not forget about the person who has a $6.58 pay-check to live off of. That is why tolls are so unaccepted, if we had a little higher income rates we might be able to get away with it. But, our state and its residents are dead-ass broke!

Personal income growth in real dollars has been pretty stagnant over the past 20 or so years. It has not kept pace with the very high inflation rates in things like health care costs, college tuition, fuel and infrastructure.

I am certianly too young to have experienced this, but I would like to find ways to counter the effects of our passed economys. I don't particularly love the generation I am in, but I want to change the preseption of us for the better. Anyways, if you read the email respose AHTD basically admited they were broke!
Well, that's just like your opinion man...

TheArkansasRoadgeek

Quote from: IDriveArkansas on March 15, 2017, 11:22:00 PM
There is just a lot of negitivity associated with tolls and tolling a road around here. Mainly truckers and the trucking industry, but let's not forget about the person who has a $6.58 pay-check to live off of. That is why tolls are so unaccepted, if we had a little higher income rates we might be able to get away with it. But, our state and its residents are dead-ass broke! How could the AHTD say we have come up to nearly one of the best in the nation in road and transportation standards?

This message is what I am talking about:

"Thank you for visiting ArkansasHighways.com. It is an honor for me to serve as Director of the Arkansas State Highway and Transportation Department. Some of the most ambitious highway construction programs we've ever undertaken are currently underway across The Natural State, and I'm proud to say that we are up to the challenge.

The people of Arkansas have shown tremendous confidence in our ability to maintain and improve our state's highway system. Approved by voters in 2011, our Interstate Rehabilitation Program is now funding between 75 and 80 individual projects around the state. More than half of that work will be underway by 2015, and when completed, will give Arkansas one of the best Interstate systems in the country.

Our work isn't stopping there. In November, 2012, voters approved Issue Number 1, funding our $1.8 billion Connecting Arkansas Program. "CAP"  is a perfect name, since the planned improvements to our state's four-lane highways will increase CAPacity and improve connectivity. And, because the revenue generated by Issue Number 1 has a CAP of 10 years, all this work will be completed in that timeframe.

We are thankful for Arkansans who have helped pave the way for a brighter future. Now, as we work to complete these projects, I'd like to remind all drivers to always use caution when entering work zones. We value your safety, and that of every member of our Highway Department family.

Our mission remains to provide a safe, efficient aesthetically pleasing and environmentally sound intermodal transportation system for the user. Rest assured that all of us at the Arkansas State Highway and Transportation Department will work our hardest to meet the needs of the traveling public across this great state."
Well, that's just like your opinion man...

Bobby5280

AHTD, like so many other state transportation agencies, is broke or nearly broke in part because of the high cost inflation of road construction. The raw materials (steel, concrete, etc.) cost way more now than in the early 1990's. Labor costs are higher. Insurance costs (like worker's comp.) are far higher. New safety standards and other quality standards have added to the costs of the roads. There's more environmental regulation. Then add in all the legal red tape of public hearings, law suits, delays, political stunts, etc. All of that stuff has turned road building and infrastructure projects in general into a very slow, costly slog that can be soul-draining for anyone directly involved. A highway project that could have been done in just a few years during the 1970's is now something that will take decades to complete.

TheArkansasRoadgeek

Quote from: Bobby5280 on March 16, 2017, 04:09:22 PM
AHTD, like so many other state transportation agencies, is broke or nearly broke in part because of the high cost inflation of road construction. The raw materials (steel, concrete, etc.) cost way more now than in the early 1990's. Labor costs are higher. Insurance costs (like worker's comp.) are far higher. New safety standards and other quality standards have added to the costs of the roads. There's more environmental regulation. Then add in all the legal red tape of public hearings, law suits, delays, political stunts, etc. All of that stuff has turned road building and infrastructure projects in general into a very slow, costly slog that can be soul-draining for anyone directly involved. A highway project that could have been done in just a few years during the 1970's is now something that will take decades to complete.

Well, we don't have the ability to "drawn from the pot" on most of our highway infatructure rehibilitation. And I think our state's situation is amplified, due to our all around finanical stituation.
Well, that's just like your opinion man...

kphoger

Quote from: IDriveArkansas on March 16, 2017, 01:02:58 PM
What do residents of a state that has either a turnpike or just a tolled road in general feel is a reasonable toll rate(s)?

I feel like $5 per 100 miles is appropriate, with $7 or $8 per 100 miles acceptable if the terrain and alternate routes make it worth the extra.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

sparker

Quote from: kphoger on March 16, 2017, 04:30:18 PM
Quote from: IDriveArkansas on March 16, 2017, 01:02:58 PM
What do residents of a state that has either a turnpike or just a tolled road in general feel is a reasonable toll rate(s)?

I feel like $5 per 100 miles is appropriate, with $7 or $8 per 100 miles acceptable if the terrain and alternate routes make it worth the extra.

5-6 cents per mile ($5-6/100 mi. as per above) is about what OK charges on most of their toll facilities; it's likely that if a long-distance toll route were to be deployed in neighboring AR, they'd utilize the OK rates as a form of baseline. 

Bobby5280

Quote from: IDriveArkansasWell, we don't have the ability to "drawn from the pot" on most of our highway infatructure rehibilitation. And I think our state's situation is amplified, due to our all around finanical stituation.

It's a very basic math problem that both politicians and the public deliberately ignore. Not enough money is coming in through taxes and too much is going out via costs. The imbalance is getting ever worse. Average wage/income levels are growing at a really low inflation rate. Meanwhile a few different "business" sectors (like health care and higher education) are greedily eating up an ever greater share of our nation's total economy. The costs they are charging to individuals and the government are at an inflation rate far higher than those personal wage/income levels. Infrastructure, construction, etc. is another one of those sectors with much higher than normal cost inflation. This is clearly a very unsustainable situation. Health care, higher education and infrastructure are all in price bubbles that deserve to be popped with a sledge hammer.

TheArkansasRoadgeek

QuoteAHTD, like so many other state transportation agencies, is broke or nearly broke in part because of the high cost inflation of road construction. The raw materials (steel, concrete, etc.) cost way more now than in the early 1990's. Labor costs are higher. Insurance costs (like worker's comp.) are far higher. New safety standards and other quality standards have added to the costs of the roads. There's more environmental regulation. Then add in all the legal red tape of public hearings, law suits, delays, political stunts, etc. All of that stuff has turned road building and infrastructure projects in general into a very slow, costly slog that can be soul-draining for anyone directly involved. A highway project that could have been done in just a few years during the 1970's is now something that will take decades to complete.

QuoteIt's a very basic math problem that both politicians and the public deliberately ignore. Not enough money is coming in through taxes and too much is going out via costs. The imbalance is getting ever worse. Average wage/income levels are growing at a really low inflation rate. Meanwhile a few different "business" sectors (like health care and higher education) are greedily eating up an ever greater share of our nation's total economy. The costs they are charging to individuals and the government are at an inflation rate far higher than those personal wage/income levels. Infrastructure, construction, etc. is another one of those sectors with much higher than normal cost inflation. This is clearly a very unsustainable situation. Health care, higher education and infrastructure are all in price bubbles that deserve to be popped with a sledge hammer.

So, between the two statements (quoted above) you think that it isn't nessessarily just the culture of the state that makes it poor? As you have said, "AHTD, like so many other state transportation agencies, is broke or nearly broke in part because of the high cost inflation of road construction. The raw materials (steel, concrete, etc.) cost way more now than in the early 1990's. Labor costs are higher. Insurance costs (like worker's comp.) are far higher. New safety standards and other quality standards have added to the costs of the roads. There's more environmental regulation. Then add in all the legal red tape of public hearings, law suits, delays, political stunts, etc." and more so building materials regarding suffient construction of it's highways? Basically, We aren't the only ones stuck between a rock and a hard place. But, if you consider Arkansas' history, you see we have always struggled in some way or another.
Well, that's just like your opinion man...

kphoger

Less-poor and more-poor are both still poor.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

kphoger

#43
Don't let NE2 get under your skin.  He's kind of like that mouse you can never get rid of in your kitchen.  He'll poke his head in every so often just to annoy you, but he's really pretty harmless.  But he's an invaluable resource when it comes to historical highway information and the like, so he has is own suite here at the Highway Hotel.  By and large, the group on here is really quite respectful and patient with each other.  The only real fights you see are when newbies act like they own the place, or when things get political or religious.

Remember, all newbies get a little flak at first, because they're eager beavers and haven't yet found their path in the forum.  Don't worry and don't let it get to you.  Take it in, let it teach you a lesson or two, and remember that we're all human with flaws of our own.

I never did get you a real welcome in my reply earlier, so...  Welcome to the forum, from Wichita.  I'll be in Arkansas for the first time in my life in two weeks.  My wife and I will be taking a quick trip to Eureka Springs to celebrate our 11th anniversary (April 22).  Even though she grew up in Branson and I've been there a thousand times, I've somehow never made it across the Arkansas line.  I'm planning on taking some of the byways to get there, coming into Missouri from OK-10C and into Arkansas from MO-37.

[Edited to correct routing:  OK-10C doesn't go to Akrnasas.]
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

inkyatari

Quote from: IDriveArkansas on March 17, 2017, 12:37:25 PM

So, you think just because I took after an agency's name that means I am part of it? Really? I guess I need to change my signature to start pleasing people... Telling people that I am not associated with something judging by my age.

Thanks for making people feel welcome and comfortable in the community! I am sorry my username doesn't meet your judgemental standards of perfection! Wow I thought this forum was filled with more mature people than this guy, I guess I was wrong.

He comes into threads all the time and posts anti- certain political candidate crap, whether its relevant to the topic at hand or not.  Just report his post. The rest of us are pretty cool.

My name is Inkyatari, yet I don't work for Atari, nor am I ghost in Pac-Man.  I'm not changing my name, and neither should you.

You're fine in here. :)
I'm never wrong, just wildly inaccurate.

TheArkansasRoadgeek

#45
I hope I haven't walked in like I have owned the place, but I would to ease into the forum. But, back on topic about I-49.

I am fine.
Well, that's just like your opinion man...

kphoger

Yes, back on topic...

Quote from: IDriveArkansas on March 17, 2017, 12:00:00 PM
it isn't necessarily just the culture of the state that makes it poor?

The above statement is certainly true.  Arkansas may be historically on the low end of the prosperity spectrum, but these issues exist at a national level and affect all states to some degree or another. 
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Bobby5280

#47
Quote from: IDriveArkansasSo, between the two statements (quoted above) you think that it isn't nessessarily just the culture of the state that makes it poor?

It's a nation-wide problem. Maybe even a global one. It's all rooted in simple, greedy human nature. We want all sorts of things but don't want to pay one penny for it. We come up with all kinds of kooky ways to rationalize the contradictory attitudes while living in absolute denial of mathematical, financial reality. That's one of the corner stones of politics.

Now, some of this kookiness is worse in some states than others. I think the financial situation has gone to hell here in Oklahoma. Single party, super-majority rule has done nothing to grow the economy here. The big tax cuts they handed out like candy to us selfish, idiot voters got us into a very deep hole. Our public education system has been weathering horribly deep, painful cuts. Our teachers are among the lowest paid in the nation; most haven't seen a raise in over a decade. Many are fleeing to other states where they can be paid much better. Now with single party rule at the federal level and plans to push far more costs onto the shoulders of states Oklahoma's budget situation only stands to get considerably worse. Oklahoma is not unique either. Kansas' state government is in a financial disaster. There's plenty of other states with governments in bad financial shape too.

This crap makes me wish I wasn't a home owner. If you suddenly have to leave the state for better prospects elsewhere it's tough to unload a house in a market where no one wants to buy.

J N Winkler

A few days ago, while surfing the Web to check construction plan downloaders that are now showing signs of script rot, I ran across a preliminary tolling feasibility study that was done for AHTD around 2002.  The URL escapes me at the moment, but I recall that in the I-49 corridor, only the Bella Vista Bypass was considered likely to recover its construction costs in tolls.  Cost cover for Bella Vista was on the order of 97% or so; for other I-49 corridors (US 71 back then), it was 17% and lower.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

TheArkansasRoadgeek

Quote from: Bobby5280 on March 18, 2017, 03:33:08 PM
Quote from: IDriveArkansasSo, between the two statements (quoted above) you think that it isn't nessessarily just the culture of the state that makes it poor?

It's a nation-wide problem. Maybe even a global one. It's all rooted in simple, greedy human nature. We want all sorts of things but don't want to pay one penny for it. We come up with all kinds of kooky ways to rationalize the contradictory attitudes while living in absolute denial of mathematical, financial reality. That's one of the corner stones of politics.

Now, some of this kookiness is worse in some states than others. I think the financial situation has gone to hell here in Oklahoma. Single party, super-majority rule has done nothing to grow the economy here. The big tax cuts they handed out like candy to us selfish, idiot voters got us into a very deep hole. Our public education system has been weathering horribly deep, painful cuts. Our teachers are among the lowest paid in the nation; most haven't seen a raise in over a decade. Many are fleeing to other states where they can paid much better. Now with single party rule at the federal level and plans to push far more costs onto the shoulders of states Oklahoma's budget situation only stands to get considerably worse. Oklahoma is not unique either. Kansas' state government is in a financial disaster. There's plenty of other states with governments in bad financial shape too.

This crap makes me wish I wasn't a home owner. If you suddenly have to leave the state for better prospects elsewhere it's tough to unload a house in a market where no one wants to buy.

I still scratch my head at the fact that we are taught economics and yet our government can't put the concepts within economics to good use. Greed.

I would like to intern with the AHTD someday to see what goes on in an organization like that. I want to be able to abserve and possibily fix flaws within my state's transportion infastructure.
Well, that's just like your opinion man...



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