News:

Thanks to everyone for the feedback on what errors you encountered from the forum database changes made in Fall 2023. Let us know if you discover anymore.

Main Menu

The role the County plays in each state

Started by roadman65, July 14, 2017, 12:34:00 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

txstateends

There are 254 counties in TX, but no townships, nor city-county combos.  Wxfree explained it earlier, but Wikipedia has alt-info at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_counties_in_Texas

There have been moves in the past to merge counties in TX due to declining population and/or less tax revenue to operate with, but so far in recent years, nothing has happened in that regard.
\/ \/ click for a bigger image \/ \/


roadman65

Kenedy County, TX is all privately owned and although has towns in it, the fact is is on private land and most likely governed by owners of its land no doubt.

I see Dallas is in two counties.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

vdeane

Quote from: roadman65 on July 15, 2017, 08:18:15 AM
Not in NYC, as Kings County and Richmond County are governed by the same body just like New York, Queens, and Bronx counties.  Yes certain things change like tax rates on sales, and even self serve gas as at one time NYC and one upstate county near the Canadian Border disallowed self service and was like NJ with attendants pumping your fuel.

In NYC the difference between boroughs are that each has its own district attorney.  The borough president of each is really an assistant to the Mayor of NYC and a borough is a subdivision of the municipality being the City of New York.
NYC is weird, but certainly not the model for the state.  Note that the second sentence of my post began with "outside NYC".  Never thought I'd see the New York = New York City fallacy happen on this forum.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Road Hog

Quote from: roadman65 on July 15, 2017, 09:00:09 AM
Kenedy County, TX is all privately owned and although has towns in it, the fact is is on private land and most likely governed by owners of its land no doubt.

I see Dallas is in two counties.
Five, actually. Far North Dallas spills over into Collin and Denton County, and the city owns Lake Ray Hubbard, which straddles the border with Rockwall County and takes in a small corner of Kaufman County.

epzik8

Maryland has 23 counties and the independent Baltimore city, which was once part of Baltimore County. They are geo-political divisions of the state.
From the land of red, white, yellow and black.
____________________________

My clinched highways: http://tm.teresco.org/user/?u=epzik8
My clinched counties: http://mob-rule.com/user-gifs/USA/epzik8.gif

empirestate

Quote from: vdeane on July 15, 2017, 09:44:37 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on July 15, 2017, 08:18:15 AM
Not in NYC, as Kings County and Richmond County are governed by the same body just like New York, Queens, and Bronx counties.  Yes certain things change like tax rates on sales, and even self serve gas as at one time NYC and one upstate county near the Canadian Border disallowed self service and was like NJ with attendants pumping your fuel.

In NYC the difference between boroughs are that each has its own district attorney.  The borough president of each is really an assistant to the Mayor of NYC and a borough is a subdivision of the municipality being the City of New York.
NYC is weird, but certainly not the model for the state.  Note that the second sentence of my post began with "outside NYC".  Never thought I'd see the New York = New York City fallacy happen on this forum.

And New York is fairly unusual in that both counties and their subdivisions (towns, fundamentally) are relatively strong governments. Strong towns are typical in New England, where counties are essentially vestigial, whereas strong counties are characteristic of the Midwest, where town[ships]s are much weaker, or the West, where they're non-existent as municipal entities. But only one or two other states have towns and counties each providing a full suite of services the way they do in NY.


iPhone

bing101

#31
In California counties are divided into Charter Counties and General Law Counties.
Likewise cities in California are divided into Charter and General Law cities.

In California Charter cities and Charter counties play a greater role though.
http://www.seecalifornia.com/counties/charter.html

https://www.cacities.org/Resources/Charter-Cities.


Charter cities and counties tend to carry the state of California most populated areas like Sacramento and Los Angeles.

roadman65

I have found where the municipal governments are strong are where there are no unincorporated areas within a state. NY is one of them and so is NJ where no place is solely county governed.   
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

empirestate

Quote from: roadman65 on July 17, 2017, 07:50:41 AM
I have found where the municipal governments are strong are where there are no unincorporated areas within a state. NY is one of them and so is NJ where no place is solely county governed.   

Better to say no "unorganized" areas for NY, because we don't semantically consider towns to be "incorporated". And PA is another close example, but their townships aren't as strong as NY's towns; and furthermore, the different township classes seem to have a more widely-ranging set of services.

tchafe1978

Counties in Wisconsin play a pretty important role in the day to day functions of government and offer many services to citizens. This document pretty much covers it all:

https://www.wicounties.org/uploads/pub/county-government-2012.pdf

cl94

New York is weird, as there is very little consistency across the state regarding the role of the county. The one consistent thing is this: the lowest level of government (town/city/village) is more powerful than in any state outside of New England. Generally, in the eastern part of the state (roughly east of NY 12), counties aren't much more than a sheriff, DPW and court. If municipal water infrastructure exists, it's typically on a town level and the county only maintains major non/state roads. Towns control most services, such as libraries, etc.

The western part of the state is another animal. Generally, there's a big county government that provides most services, such as libraries, water, etc, similar to states further west. Relatively few services are provided on a town level. Several counties out here maintain a massive county road network. Erie County (Buffalo), for example, maintains most non-state through roads outside of cities, giving it the largest CR network in the state by far. Onondoga County (Syracuse) comes in second in terms of county route network.

The 5 New York City counties exist in name only; as they're all entirely contained within the City of New York and cities can do everything a county can (and then some), there is no reason for them to exist. Also, while strong towns/counties exist inside the state, strong counties rarely have strong towns (and vice-versa). Towns are generally stronger in the east, while counties are stronger in the west.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

ixnay

I find municipalities that are in more than one county intriguing for some reason. 

NYC and Dallas have already been mentioned.

The little town of Bethlehem, PA (Xmas in July, don't you know) is roughly split evenly between Lehigh and Northampton Counties.  So is Milford, DE (shared by Kent and Sussex Counties, which are separated there by the mighty Mispillion).

ixnay
The Washington/Baltimore/Arlington CSA has two Key Bridges, a Minnesota Avenue, and a Mannasota Avenue.

cl94

Quote from: ixnay on July 22, 2017, 08:15:19 PM
I find municipalities that are in more than one county intriguing for some reason. 

New York has nine municipalities that are in multiple counties other than New York City. The only city in two counties is Geneva (Ontario and Seneca). The villages are:

-Almond (Allegany and Steuben)
-Attica (Genesee and Wyoming)
-Deposit (Broome and Delaware)
-Dolgeville (Fulton and Herkimer)
-Earlville (Chenango and Madison)
-Gowanda (Cattaraugus and Erie)
-Rushville (Ontario and Yates)
-Saranac Lake (Essex and Franklin). Until Essex County raised its sales tax to 8%, matching Franklin County's, the village had sales tax rates differing by 1% depending on where you were.

On a roads-related note, Earlville, Geneva, Rushville and Saranac Lake are split between two NYSDOT regions as well.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

empirestate

Quote from: cl94 on July 22, 2017, 06:43:49 PM
The 5 New York City counties exist in name only; as they're all entirely contained within the City of New York and cities can do everything a county can (and then some), there is no reason for them to exist.

Essentially true, although there are certain functions that are carried out in the name of the county, rather than the coterminous borough. It seems to be that state functions within NYC are divided by county, while city functions are separated by borough.



iPhone

Brandon

Quote from: ixnay on July 22, 2017, 08:15:19 PM
I find municipalities that are in more than one county intriguing for some reason. 

Illinois has a shit-ton, including some county seats.

Chicago (county seat - Cook) - Cook & DuPage
Aurora - Kane, DuPage, Kendall, & Will
Joliet (county seat - Will) - Will & Kendall
Naperville - DuPage & Will
Elgin - Kane & Cook
Bolingbrook - Will & DuPage

And on and on.  There's far too many to list, but the above are some of the largest, but there is at least one other in four counties, Barrington Hills - Cook, Kane, McHenry, & Lake.

Then the capital of the State of Michigan is in three counties (Ingham, Clinton, and Eaton), but id the only state capital not to be a county seat.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

Desert Man

Quote from: bing101 on July 16, 2017, 10:14:56 PM
In California counties are divided into Charter Counties and General Law Counties.
Likewise cities in California are divided into Charter and General Law cities.

In California Charter cities and Charter counties play a greater role though.
http://www.seecalifornia.com/counties/charter.html

https://www.cacities.org/Resources/Charter-Cities.


Charter cities and counties tend to carry the state of California most populated areas like Sacramento and Los Angeles.

CA has a total of 58 counties, some are rather large, like Riverside and San Bernardino, also Kern to be as big as states in New England. Riverside county should be divided into two: the eastern part for the Coachella Valley (Indio has the county government offices) and a need to sub-divide Los Angeles county (and city) 5 ways: The Antelope Valley. Santa Monica/Agoura Hills, the South Bay/Culver City, Long Beach and Pomona (the county fairgrounds), and the city itself to a borough system similar to NYC: 1. Central (downtown LA), 2. Hollywood, 3. Venice/Westwood, 4. San Pedro/Harbor City, and 5. San Fernando Valley. However, L.A. has 4 million people and the county has over 10 million.
Get your kicks...on Route 99! Like to turn 66 upside down. The other historic Main street of America.

The Nature Boy

Quote from: cl94 on July 22, 2017, 06:43:49 PM
New York is weird, as there is very little consistency across the state regarding the role of the county. The one consistent thing is this: the lowest level of government (town/city/village) is more powerful than in any state outside of New England. Generally, in the eastern part of the state (roughly east of NY 12), counties aren't much more than a sheriff, DPW and court. If municipal water infrastructure exists, it's typically on a town level and the county only maintains major non/state roads. Towns control most services, such as libraries, etc.

The western part of the state is another animal. Generally, there's a big county government that provides most services, such as libraries, water, etc, similar to states further west. Relatively few services are provided on a town level. Several counties out here maintain a massive county road network. Erie County (Buffalo), for example, maintains most non-state through roads outside of cities, giving it the largest CR network in the state by far. Onondoga County (Syracuse) comes in second in terms of county route network.

The 5 New York City counties exist in name only; as they're all entirely contained within the City of New York and cities can do everything a county can (and then some), there is no reason for them to exist. Also, while strong towns/counties exist inside the state, strong counties rarely have strong towns (and vice-versa). Towns are generally stronger in the east, while counties are stronger in the west.

I believe I've posted this here before (so forgive me if I have). I once had a central New Yorker friend tell me that the different regions of New York State tends to take on whatever characteristics its nearest state or region has. Eastern New York is most similar to New England because it borders New England whereas Western New York is basically an eastern extension of the Midwest. The Southern Tier is also basically Northern Pennsylvania.

Basically, New York City is more similar to Boston than it is to Buffalo and Buffalo is more similar to Detroit than it is New York City.

cl94

Quote from: The Nature Boy
I believe I've posted this here before (so forgive me if I have). I once had a central New Yorker friend tell me that the different regions of New York State tends to take on whatever characteristics its nearest state or region has. Eastern New York is most similar to New England because it borders New England whereas Western New York is basically an eastern extension of the Midwest. The Southern Tier is also basically Northern Pennsylvania.

Basically, New York City is more similar to Boston than it is to Buffalo and Buffalo is more similar to Detroit than it is New York City.

Correct. Buffalo is undoubtedly Midwest, while Albany may as well be New England. Rochester and Syracuse lie in a transition zone. Basically, west of I-390 is Midwest and east of I-81 is East Coast. The counties that border PA are very similar to PA in terms of culture, government, etc. Likewise, north of Albany blends into Vermont and the mid-lower Hudson Valley blends into Connecticut and New Jersey. These major cultural differences are why there is so much of a regional tug of war in NY. Don't want to get too off-topic here, as this discussion could go on forever.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

Doctor Whom

Quote from: epzik8 on July 16, 2017, 01:06:09 PM
Maryland has 23 counties and the independent Baltimore city, which was once part of Baltimore County. They are geo-political divisions of the state.
In addition, the county is a powerful unit of government in Maryland. In some of the most populous areas outside of Baltimore City, the county is the sole general-purpose local government. Counties have discretion to block the incorporation of new municipalities in their territories.

jwolfer

Quote from: Doctor Whom on July 25, 2017, 11:30:54 AM
Quote from: epzik8 on July 16, 2017, 01:06:09 PM
Maryland has 23 counties and the independent Baltimore city, which was once part of Baltimore County. They are geo-political divisions of the state.
In addition, the county is a powerful unit of government in Maryland. In some of the most populous areas outside of Baltimore City, the county is the sole general-purpose local government. Counties have discretion to block the incorporation of new municipalities in their territories.
Maryland has surprisingly few incorporated places.

LGMS428


oscar

#45
Quote from: roadman65 on July 14, 2017, 12:34:00 PM
In Hawaii, although they have 5 counties their delegation is different as education is not a power granted to them by the state government as they have control over all schooling within the State.

One of the five counties, Kalawao (once a place of exile for Hansen's Disease patients, but the few who remain could leave if they wanted now that medications make the disease non-contagious) really is a benevolent co-dictatorship of the state Department of Health and the National Park Service. While state law makes it a county of its own (and not a part of Maui County), it says that Hawaii's laws on counties don't apply there.

For the other four counties, while education and libraries are state functions, vehicle registration and traffic law enforcement are exclusive county functions. (The state's brief foray into traffic law enforcement, via speed cameras, ended very, very badly. When uniformed county police officers were photographed making obscene gestures at the speed cameras, that was a sign that the state really screwed up.) And counties maintain most public non-state roads, some of which are numbered.

The most unique feature of Hawaii's counties is that there are no municipal governments below the county level.

Alaska has boroughs and other county-like units, but also a vast Unorganized Borough where the state handles county-level functions. However, both that borough and others (except city-boroughs like Juneau, Sitka, and Yakutat) have separate municipal governments within their boundaries. As for transportation, almost all significant roads, and many insignificant ones, are state-maintained, as is the Alaska Marine Highway auto ferry system (but there are some local non-AMHS ferries too).
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
http://www.alaskaroads.com/home.html

JKRhodes

Graham County, Arizona:

Maintains non-state roads outside of city limits..

Sheriff's office provides law enforcement outside city limits, jail for entire county, single 911 PSAP /Dispatch Center for all law enforement and fire deprs. in county.

Court System: One Superior Court two Justice of the Peace courts, Probation.

Treasurer, Recorder and Assessor: Taxes, real property records, etc.

Other Departments: Other government-y stuff.

Arizona's other 14 counties basically work the same.... except Graham is the only county with a single 911 PSAP for the entire county.

bandit957

Is a canton really just an area that's the size of a county but has the powers of a state?
Might as well face it, pooing is cool

hotdogPi

Quote from: bandit957 on September 26, 2017, 05:59:49 PM
Is a canton really just an area that's the size of a county but has the powers of a state?

Are you referring to the cantons in Switzerland? They seem to be the primary subdivision, as Switzerland's total area is much smaller than that of the United States. If any relatively small country was divided into 20-30 pieces (Switzerland has 26 cantons), they would be more comparable to US counties in area but US states in function.

One exception: Sometimes the best analogy is US-state-county to EU-country-[name of subdivision]. Switzerland is not part of the European Union, though.
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

1995hoo

Quote from: ixnay on July 22, 2017, 08:15:19 PM
I find municipalities that are in more than one county intriguing for some reason. 

NYC and Dallas have already been mentioned.

The little town of Bethlehem, PA (Xmas in July, don't you know) is roughly split evenly between Lehigh and Northampton Counties.  So is Milford, DE (shared by Kent and Sussex Counties, which are separated there by the mighty Mispillion).

ixnay

You'd probably like Lloydminster, which straddles the border between Saskatchewan and Alberta but is a single municipality (unlike, say, Bristol, which is two separate municipalities in Virginia and Tennessee).
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.