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MassPike - new interchange?

Started by SidS1045, July 21, 2017, 06:43:16 PM

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SidS1045

According to WCVB-TV, the state budget just passed contains a directive to MassDOT to study adding an interchange in the 30-mile stretch between exits 2 and 3.  The report must be delivered to the legislature no later than July 1, 2018.


New England Public Radio speculated on one possible location: the Blandford service plaza, where MassDOT already owns much of the land that would be needed.
"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves." - Edward R. Murrow


jp the roadgeek

An interchange where the service area is would really serve no purpose, seeing it's in a remote area and would probably use Chester Rd. as a dump off point.  It would be over a mile to Blandford Center and MA 23, and over 5 miles up to US 20 in Chester.  With the smaller footprint required because of AET, an interchange near the US 20/MA 8 junction works the best.  It would serve Tanglewood, as well as traffic using MA 8 coming from CT.  I also considered one near the US 20/MA 23 junction in Russell, but with it being at the bottom of a steep hill, trucks would have a hard time using it.  I hope MassDOT considers it
Interstates I've clinched: 97, 290 (MA), 291 (CT), 291 (MA), 293, 295 (DE-NJ-PA), 295 (RI-MA), 384, 391, 395 (CT-MA), 395 (MD), 495 (DE), 610 (LA), 684, 691, 695 (MD), 695 (NY), 795 (MD)

Beeper1

Blandford would actually be a really good location.  It would provide the best central access to the hilltowns via Chester Road or Russell Stage Road, plus good access to points south on Route 8 via Route 23. 

An interchange in West Becket is close enough to Lee to not make much difference. The idea of the new interchange is to provide better access for some of the small towns in the eastern Berkshires.   Tanglewood is located west of Lee, so any interchange on the 30 mile stretch wont help access to that. 

The 20/23 junction is the same issue only on the other end.  Close enough to Westfield that it wouldn't really serve the purpose.  Also, as you mentioned, the topography in that stretch would make a new interchange really difficult.

Another thing to note for Blandford is that the road from the overpass near the service plaza to Route 23 is already a state-maintained road, and Chester Road headed towards route 20, while town maintained, was recently repaved and is in good shape to handle increased traffic.

The only other location that seems to make sense would be in Otis at Algerie Road. That could connect to Otis Reservoir and points south on MA-8, to US-20 and MA-8 north/Jacob's Pillow area, and to Blandford via North Blandford Rd.   But that is a slightly windier road, that may not be as friendly for larger vehicles.  The advantage here is it would get the large trucks from the Otis granite quarry onto the highway faster and off the local roads.   

hotdogPi

I was thinking of having one at the center of Blandford with easy access to MA 23, even though the Pike does not quite intersect MA 23 there. It would be signed as "TO [23]". Given that the service plaza is only about a mile away, if using the service plaza is easier, it works well.
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

Duke87

With the pike having gone to AET, and thus allowing for interchanges with smaller footprints, really there are several places that could all be worthy of adding one. I would go as far as to propose adding four of them:
- direct access to US 7
- MA 8/US 20 at West Beckett
- Blandford (putting it at the service plazas is fine)
- US 20 near the Westfield River bridge
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

Rothman

#5
Quote from: Duke87 on July 23, 2017, 08:50:53 PM
With the pike having gone to AET, and thus allowing for interchanges with smaller footprints, really there are several places that could all be worthy of adding one. I would go as far as to propose adding four of them:
- direct access to US 7
- MA 8/US 20 at West Beckett
- Blandford (putting it at the service plazas is fine)
- US 20 near the Westfield River bridge
Putting it at the bridge would be unfortunate.  The valley there is actually quite scenic.


I have been for putting it near US 20/MA 8/Jacob's Pillow in Beckett for years.  Makes the most sense there.  Not sure why there is a lean towards Blandford; there is nothing out there.

It is also just a study.  Probably won't result in anything anyway since traffic counts out there are so low the expense isn't justified.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

hotdogPi

Quote from: Rothman on July 24, 2017, 08:47:59 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on July 23, 2017, 08:50:53 PM
With the pike having gone to AET, and thus allowing for interchanges with smaller footprints, really there are several places that could all be worthy of adding one. I would go as far as to propose adding four of them:
- direct access to US 7
- MA 8/US 20 at West Beckett
- Blandford (putting it at the service plazas is fine)
- US 20 near the Westfield River bridge
Putting it at the bridge would be unfortunate.  The valley there is actually quite scenic.


I have been for putting it near US 20/MA 8/Jacob's Pillow in Beckett for years.  Makes the most sense there.  Not sure why there is a lean towards Blandford; there is nothing out there.

It is also just a study.  Probably won't result in anything anyway since traffic counts out there are so low the expense isn't justified.

Putting it at MA 23 would help those going to Hudson NY or Catskill NY.
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

Rothman

Quote from: 1 on July 24, 2017, 10:39:35 AM
Quote from: Rothman on July 24, 2017, 08:47:59 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on July 23, 2017, 08:50:53 PM
With the pike having gone to AET, and thus allowing for interchanges with smaller footprints, really there are several places that could all be worthy of adding one. I would go as far as to propose adding four of them:
- direct access to US 7
- MA 8/US 20 at West Beckett
- Blandford (putting it at the service plazas is fine)
- US 20 near the Westfield River bridge
Putting it at the bridge would be unfortunate.  The valley there is actually quite scenic.


I have been for putting it near US 20/MA 8/Jacob's Pillow in Beckett for years.  Makes the most sense there.  Not sure why there is a lean towards Blandford; there is nothing out there.

It is also just a study.  Probably won't result in anything anyway since traffic counts out there are so low the expense isn't justified.

Putting it at MA 23 would help those going to Hudson NY or Catskill NY.

I wonder by how much.  Cuts off, what, 15-20 miles, while MA 23 is essentially a curvy back road.  The difference would be a matter of minutes at a time when Hudson's flash-in-the-pot allure is wearing off (City folk are realizing the "redevelopment" of a couple of blocks still doesn't change the fact that Hudson's main export is still crack).
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

jp the roadgeek

Quote from: Rothman on July 24, 2017, 11:26:53 AM
Quote from: 1 on July 24, 2017, 10:39:35 AM
Quote from: Rothman on July 24, 2017, 08:47:59 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on July 23, 2017, 08:50:53 PM
With the pike having gone to AET, and thus allowing for interchanges with smaller footprints, really there are several places that could all be worthy of adding one. I would go as far as to propose adding four of them:
- direct access to US 7
- MA 8/US 20 at West Beckett
- Blandford (putting it at the service plazas is fine)
- US 20 near the Westfield River bridge
Putting it at the bridge would be unfortunate.  The valley there is actually quite scenic.


I have been for putting it near US 20/MA 8/Jacob's Pillow in Beckett for years.  Makes the most sense there.  Not sure why there is a lean towards Blandford; there is nothing out there.

It is also just a study.  Probably won't result in anything anyway since traffic counts out there are so low the expense isn't justified.

Putting it at MA 23 would help those going to Hudson NY or Catskill NY.

I wonder by how much.  Cuts off, what, 15-20 miles, while MA 23 is essentially a curvy back road.  The difference would be a matter of minutes at a time when Hudson's flash-in-the-pot allure is wearing off (City folk are realizing the "redevelopment" of a couple of blocks still doesn't change the fact that Hudson's main export is still crack).

I would just stay on and get off at B1 and go down US 9 to get to Hudson or Catskill.  Plus, MA 23 has a bottleneck through downtown Great Barrington.  I'm sorry, I just don't see any purpose for an exit at MA 23 other than for the people of Blandford and Chester unless you somehow built an extension of MA 189 from Granville.  An exit near the MA 8/US 20 junction would serve so much more; someone who uses MA 8 to US 20 to get to the Albany area would be better served to continue on to Lee rather than backtrack on MA 23 East from Otis to Blandford
Interstates I've clinched: 97, 290 (MA), 291 (CT), 291 (MA), 293, 295 (DE-NJ-PA), 295 (RI-MA), 384, 391, 395 (CT-MA), 395 (MD), 495 (DE), 610 (LA), 684, 691, 695 (MD), 695 (NY), 795 (MD)

Rothman

Quote from: jp the roadgeek on July 24, 2017, 01:04:02 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 24, 2017, 11:26:53 AM
Quote from: 1 on July 24, 2017, 10:39:35 AM
Quote from: Rothman on July 24, 2017, 08:47:59 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on July 23, 2017, 08:50:53 PM
With the pike having gone to AET, and thus allowing for interchanges with smaller footprints, really there are several places that could all be worthy of adding one. I would go as far as to propose adding four of them:
- direct access to US 7
- MA 8/US 20 at West Beckett
- Blandford (putting it at the service plazas is fine)
- US 20 near the Westfield River bridge
Putting it at the bridge would be unfortunate.  The valley there is actually quite scenic.


I have been for putting it near US 20/MA 8/Jacob's Pillow in Beckett for years.  Makes the most sense there.  Not sure why there is a lean towards Blandford; there is nothing out there.

It is also just a study.  Probably won't result in anything anyway since traffic counts out there are so low the expense isn't justified.

Putting it at MA 23 would help those going to Hudson NY or Catskill NY.

I wonder by how much.  Cuts off, what, 15-20 miles, while MA 23 is essentially a curvy back road.  The difference would be a matter of minutes at a time when Hudson's flash-in-the-pot allure is wearing off (City folk are realizing the "redevelopment" of a couple of blocks still doesn't change the fact that Hudson's main export is still crack).

I would just stay on and get off at B1 and go down US 9 to get to Hudson or Catskill.  Plus, MA 23 has a bottleneck through downtown Great Barrington.  I'm sorry, I just don't see any purpose for an exit at MA 23 other than for the people of Blandford and Chester unless you somehow built an extension of MA 189 from Granville.  An exit near the MA 8/US 20 junction would serve so much more; someone who uses MA 8 to US 20 to get to the Albany area would be better served to continue on to Lee rather than backtrack on MA 23 East from Otis to Blandford

That's what I'm thinking:  MA 8/US 20 in Becket have to be used more than MA 23 in Blandford.  Not saying there's a huge amount of traffic at either location, but the Becket location would seem to serve a lot more traffic heading to the Berkshires and from more directions than just east.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

cl94

US 20/MA 8 in Becket would help people getting to the CT 8 expressway, as well as the central Berkshires. Where MA 23 crosses the Pike would get traffic from the western part of Westfield and US 20 east of MA 112, as that's about a mile from the bridge. Blandford, while easy, wouldn't do a whole heck of a lot.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

Duke87

Quote from: Rothman on July 24, 2017, 08:47:59 AM
It is also just a study.  Probably won't result in anything anyway since traffic counts out there are so low the expense isn't justified.

And let's also not forget that this is New England, which means all the steady habits types come out of the woodwork.

Already I've seen comments from people in Blandford and Otis voicing their opposition to the idea, saying basically "don't go routing more cars through my town to fix Westfield's traffic problem".
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

Beeper1

Not sure about Otis, but the opposition in Blandford is very much the minority.  The Town has been trying to get an interchange built for decades, but the state kept shrugging it off. 

Not only will it help take some pressure off the bottleneck of downtown Westfield, but will allow said Blandford and Otis residents to by-pass that mess, saving them hassle.   

sparker

Quote from: Rothman on July 24, 2017, 08:47:59 AM
I have been for putting it near US 20/MA 8/Jacob's Pillow in Beckett for years.  Makes the most sense there.  Not sure why there is a lean towards Blandford; there is nothing out there.

Since MSR 8 does function as the principal N-S corridor between I-91/US 5 and US 7, it makes more sense to place an interchange at or near that route's crossing of the Pike.  And although the chances of CT extending the CT 8 freeway facility north to the state line are slim & none, there's still a significant amount of traffic that continues along that route.  Placing an interchange in proximity to 8 might prompt some level of enhancement to the corridor from Winsted north to the Pike and/or US 20 -- which is currently a bit of a slow slog (I've used it several times to travel between Bennington -- my unofficial HQ when I'm in New England -- and New Haven, where my GF is originally from -- and where her brother still lives).  Certainly wouldn't mind an improved N-S corridor in that neck of the woods!   

Rothman

Traffic in Westfield?  Baloney.  It is off the beaten path and no one has any real reason to go through it except to attend that cruddy college.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Beeper1

Westfield downtown is a huge traffic bottleneck that can get bad at times.  Between the college, the large amount of industrial traffic from the two major industrial parks in town and the Air Reserve base, and all the commute traffic from Exit 3 to the hilltowns on Route 20 and along the Route 10 corridor there is quite a bit of traffic through town.  What makes it worse is the fact that there all that traffic has to funnel onto US-202 to cross the river, which means everyone has to go through downtown where the narrow RR underpass forces traffic into 1 lane each way.  With all the roads in/through town loaded with traffic lights (though this has been helped a bit by the reconstruction of 202/10 between the river bridge and the Turnpike, it can be slow going.  The westbound offramp at exit 3 often backs up onto the turnpike, with the line stretching back to the state police barracks.   


cl94

Quote from: Beeper1 on July 25, 2017, 08:14:27 PM
Westfield downtown is a huge traffic bottleneck that can get bad at times.  Between the college, the large amount of industrial traffic from the two major industrial parks in town and the Air Reserve base, and all the commute traffic from Exit 3 to the hilltowns on Route 20 and along the Route 10 corridor there is quite a bit of traffic through town.  What makes it worse is the fact that there all that traffic has to funnel onto US-202 to cross the river, which means everyone has to go through downtown where the narrow RR underpass forces traffic into 1 lane each way.  With all the roads in/through town loaded with traffic lights (though this has been helped a bit by the reconstruction of 202/10 between the river bridge and the Turnpike, it can be slow going.  The westbound offramp at exit 3 often backs up onto the turnpike, with the line stretching back to the state police barracks.

I concur. I've been through the area a few times during rush hour and, while not horrendous, it's quite bad for a town of that size. Having only 1 through road river crossing between US 20 east of Westfield and Huntington other than the Turnpike doesn't help matters.
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.

Travel Mapping (updated weekly)

Beeper1

Exactly.  They could relieve a good amount of traffic by building another bridge somewhere at the west end of town, maybe connecting the end of Pochassic Street near the gravel pit with US 20 near the Russell line.


kefkafloyd

Quote from: Rothman on July 25, 2017, 07:57:26 PM
Traffic in Westfield?  Baloney.  It is off the beaten path and no one has any real reason to go through it except to attend that cruddy college.

As an alum of Westfield State, I resemble that remark. ;)

Those hilltowns might get a little busier with an extra exit here or there. Put some basic diamond interchanges at Russel Stage Road, Algerie Road, and call it a day. The backtracking problems are real, especially for emergency services.

Not to mention people who miss exit 2 or 3 no longer having a 60 mile u-turn penalty.

Rothman

Nobody cares about Westfield.  Nobody. :D

Quote from: kefkafloyd on July 25, 2017, 11:55:37 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 25, 2017, 07:57:26 PM
Traffic in Westfield?  Baloney.  It is off the beaten path and no one has any real reason to go through it except to attend that cruddy college.

As an alum of Westfield State, I resemble that remark. ;)


Went to UMass for grad school. :P :D
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Rothman

#20
Quote from: cl94 on July 25, 2017, 08:20:36 PM
Quote from: Beeper1 on July 25, 2017, 08:14:27 PM
Westfield downtown is a huge traffic bottleneck that can get bad at times.  Between the college, the large amount of industrial traffic from the two major industrial parks in town and the Air Reserve base, and all the commute traffic from Exit 3 to the hilltowns on Route 20 and along the Route 10 corridor there is quite a bit of traffic through town.  What makes it worse is the fact that there all that traffic has to funnel onto US-202 to cross the river, which means everyone has to go through downtown where the narrow RR underpass forces traffic into 1 lane each way.  With all the roads in/through town loaded with traffic lights (though this has been helped a bit by the reconstruction of 202/10 between the river bridge and the Turnpike, it can be slow going.  The westbound offramp at exit 3 often backs up onto the turnpike, with the line stretching back to the state police barracks.

I concur. I've been through the area a few times during rush hour and, while not horrendous, it's quite bad for a town of that size. Having only 1 through road river crossing between US 20 east of Westfield and Huntington other than the Turnpike doesn't help matters.

Why the devil would anyone need to go through Westfield, let alone a few times? :D Heck, having grown up in the Pioneer Valley myself, I know generations of people in western MA that have never been to downtown Westfield since it isn't on the way to anywhere and there's really nothing there of regional interest (as opposed to Northampton or Amherst).
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Alps

Quote from: Rothman on July 26, 2017, 12:03:23 AM
Quote from: cl94 on July 25, 2017, 08:20:36 PM
Quote from: Beeper1 on July 25, 2017, 08:14:27 PM
Westfield downtown is a huge traffic bottleneck that can get bad at times.  Between the college, the large amount of industrial traffic from the two major industrial parks in town and the Air Reserve base, and all the commute traffic from Exit 3 to the hilltowns on Route 20 and along the Route 10 corridor there is quite a bit of traffic through town.  What makes it worse is the fact that there all that traffic has to funnel onto US-202 to cross the river, which means everyone has to go through downtown where the narrow RR underpass forces traffic into 1 lane each way.  With all the roads in/through town loaded with traffic lights (though this has been helped a bit by the reconstruction of 202/10 between the river bridge and the Turnpike, it can be slow going.  The westbound offramp at exit 3 often backs up onto the turnpike, with the line stretching back to the state police barracks.

I concur. I've been through the area a few times during rush hour and, while not horrendous, it's quite bad for a town of that size. Having only 1 through road river crossing between US 20 east of Westfield and Huntington other than the Turnpike doesn't help matters.

Why the devil would anyone need to go through Westfield, let alone a few times? :D Heck, having grown up in the Pioneer Valley myself, I know generations of people in western MA that have never been to downtown Westfield since it isn't on the way to anywhere and there's really nothing there of regional interest (as opposed to Northampton or Amherst).
Damn son, quit your Westfield bashing. I've been through there and it's a nice New England mountain town with enough going on to warrant consideration for a local exit.

Rothman

Quote from: Alps on July 26, 2017, 12:16:56 AM
Quote from: Rothman on July 26, 2017, 12:03:23 AM
Quote from: cl94 on July 25, 2017, 08:20:36 PM
Quote from: Beeper1 on July 25, 2017, 08:14:27 PM
Westfield downtown is a huge traffic bottleneck that can get bad at times.  Between the college, the large amount of industrial traffic from the two major industrial parks in town and the Air Reserve base, and all the commute traffic from Exit 3 to the hilltowns on Route 20 and along the Route 10 corridor there is quite a bit of traffic through town.  What makes it worse is the fact that there all that traffic has to funnel onto US-202 to cross the river, which means everyone has to go through downtown where the narrow RR underpass forces traffic into 1 lane each way.  With all the roads in/through town loaded with traffic lights (though this has been helped a bit by the reconstruction of 202/10 between the river bridge and the Turnpike, it can be slow going.  The westbound offramp at exit 3 often backs up onto the turnpike, with the line stretching back to the state police barracks.

I concur. I've been through the area a few times during rush hour and, while not horrendous, it's quite bad for a town of that size. Having only 1 through road river crossing between US 20 east of Westfield and Huntington other than the Turnpike doesn't help matters.

Why the devil would anyone need to go through Westfield, let alone a few times? :D Heck, having grown up in the Pioneer Valley myself, I know generations of people in western MA that have never been to downtown Westfield since it isn't on the way to anywhere and there's really nothing there of regional interest (as opposed to Northampton or Amherst).
Damn son, quit your Westfield bashing. I've been through there and it's a nice New England mountain town with enough going on to warrant consideration for a local exit.

It already has a local exit at US 202/MA 10.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

kefkafloyd

The Westfield discussion is really a distraction except for being "the place where all the hilltowners have to go to get on the highway." Other people have to backtrack to Lee, which can be just as bad. There's other people that drive through Westfield too, like Connecticut border towns, Southwick, Congamond lakes recreational traffic, but that's neither here nor there with relation to the hilltowns.

The point is to let the people in the hill towns (Russel, Blandford, Otis, Huntington, Chester) get on and off the highway, or let people who miss the exits turn around without taking a 60 mile penalty. These are legit reasons to build an interchange or two, something that the state could certainly afford to do. The interchanges would improve the traffic and QOL for all these communities. Having to get off at Westfield to get to Blandford or Chester easily doubles the time spent driving versus the Turnpike even if there is no traffic, and there almost always is.

Rothman

Nobody lives in those hilltowns, though, and how do you know what the State can and cannot afford?
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.



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