California Traffic signals

Started by blue.cable82, August 07, 2017, 02:45:23 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

blue.cable82

California  Traffic signal  are most interest In the USA.

LGMS210



jakeroot

Quote from: blue.cable82 on August 07, 2017, 02:45:23 AM
California  Traffic signal  are most interest In the USA

Most interesting word arrangement, comrade!




California has some excellent signals. They've been on the backplate bandwagon for seemingly longer than anyone else. And no corner of an intersection is left untouched by secondary signals. Here in Washington, I could easily pull the "I didn't see the signal, officer" excuse. Not in California!

I do think it's strange that so many of their left turn signals are hung from the top, whereas the rest of the signals are mast-arm mounted somewhere between the top-middle and/or middle.

sparker

Quote from: jakeroot on August 07, 2017, 03:30:09 AM
Quote from: blue.cable82 on August 07, 2017, 02:45:23 AM
California  Traffic signal  are most interest In the USA

Most interesting word arrangement, comrade!




California has some excellent signals. They've been on the backplate bandwagon for seemingly longer than anyone else. And no corner of an intersection is left untouched by secondary signals. Here in Washington, I could easily pull the "I didn't see the signal, officer" excuse. Not in California!

I do think it's strange that so many of their left turn signals are hung from the top, whereas the rest of the signals are mast-arm mounted somewhere between the top-middle and/or middle.

For the most part, it looks like they're attempting to keep the signals more or less in a straight horizontal line -- and since the cantilevered mast is usually at a higher point near the center of the street, the hanging option would be utilized to keep the left-turn signal in line with the others situated along the mast.  In the Sacramento area there are numerous interchanges with mast-arms fully extending across the street, anchored on both sides; these are invariably horizontally oriented, which obviates the need to vary the mounting techniques to achieve a straight line.  Having signals arrayed in such a straight line minimizes the need for motorists to "hunt" for the signal they need; all that is necessary is to scan across a particular part of the field of vision. 

jakeroot

Quote from: sparker on August 07, 2017, 12:56:32 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on August 07, 2017, 03:30:09 AM
I do think it's strange that so many of their left turn signals are hung from the top, whereas the rest of the signals are mast-arm mounted somewhere between the top-middle and/or middle.

For the most part, it looks like they're attempting to keep the signals more or less in a straight horizontal line -- and since the cantilevered mast is usually at a higher point near the center of the street, the hanging option would be utilized to keep the left-turn signal in line with the others situated along the mast.  In the Sacramento area there are numerous interchanges with mast-arms fully extending across the street, anchored on both sides; these are invariably horizontally oriented, which obviates the need to vary the mounting techniques to achieve a straight line.  Having signals arrayed in such a straight line minimizes the need for motorists to "hunt" for the signal they need; all that is necessary is to scan across a particular part of the field of vision.

It can be higher, but not by several feet, I don't think?

In the example images above, the left turn signal (the Hwy 67 intersection) is clearly lower than the through signal several feet over. Although the mast-arm is cantilevered, the part of the mast-arm that has the left-most signals mounted to it is flat. They could have been placed level to each other.

With that in mind, why would California use the cantilevered mast-arm if they want drivers to minimize vertical scanning? They could just use (nearly) level mast-arms, like these (Federal Way, WA). No need to look up or down. Everything is right in line:


Ian

Quote from: jakeroot on August 07, 2017, 03:30:09 AM
I do think it's strange that so many of their left turn signals are hung from the top, whereas the rest of the signals are mast-arm mounted somewhere between the top-middle and/or middle.

From what I saw when I was out there last summer, I think California is moving away from hanging their outermost signal heads from the top. All of the new overheads I saw now have the plumbizer mounted between the amber and red sections. Here's a newer example in Dana Point...

UMaine graduate, former PennDOT employee, new SoCal resident.
Youtube l Flickr

sparker

Quote from: jakeroot on August 07, 2017, 01:57:28 PM
Quote from: sparker on August 07, 2017, 12:56:32 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on August 07, 2017, 03:30:09 AM
I do think it's strange that so many of their left turn signals are hung from the top, whereas the rest of the signals are mast-arm mounted somewhere between the top-middle and/or middle.

For the most part, it looks like they're attempting to keep the signals more or less in a straight horizontal line -- and since the cantilevered mast is usually at a higher point near the center of the street, the hanging option would be utilized to keep the left-turn signal in line with the others situated along the mast.  In the Sacramento area there are numerous interchanges with mast-arms fully extending across the street, anchored on both sides; these are invariably horizontally oriented, which obviates the need to vary the mounting techniques to achieve a straight line.  Having signals arrayed in such a straight line minimizes the need for motorists to "hunt" for the signal they need; all that is necessary is to scan across a particular part of the field of vision.

It can be higher, but not by several feet, I don't think?

In the example images above, the left turn signal (the Hwy 67 intersection) is clearly lower than the through signal several feet over. Although the mast-arm is cantilevered, the part of the mast-arm that has the left-most signals mounted to it is flat. They could have been placed level to each other.

With that in mind, why would California use the cantilevered mast-arm if they want drivers to minimize vertical scanning? They could just use (nearly) level mast-arms, like these (Federal Way, WA). No need to look up or down. Everything is right in line:



That one on the CA 67 cross-street is indeed a bit strange: the left-turn and the rightmost signal assemblies are more or less in line, while the center one is raised on the arm-mast.  Why that was done is perplexing; since this assembly is along a state highway, maybe D11 might be able to shed light on the choice.  As to why CA elects to use angled mast-arms rather than straight -- maybe (a) they have a shitload of them stashed in various corporation yards or (b) it what their contractors utilize.  Next time I'm in SoCal, I'll have to keep an eye out for various mast configurations -- if indeed a straight mast (otherwise than a full-span horizontal arm) would be optimal for vertical-scan minimization (and the older my eyes get, the more I appreciate such things), it might be interesting to see if they happen to show up in newer installations. 

Come to think of it -- in now very old installations featuring thin curved mast arms with support beams or cables, any separate left-turn signal was usually placed on a ground-mounted pole and set approximately the height of pole-mounted signals at the intersection corner -- always considerably lower than the overhead assembly.  Perhaps the lowered left-turn signal -- if replacing an older installation, is an attempt to duplicate the historic location of the signals as much as possible.   

jakeroot

Quote from: Ian on August 07, 2017, 04:32:42 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on August 07, 2017, 03:30:09 AM
I do think it's strange that so many of their left turn signals are hung from the top, whereas the rest of the signals are mast-arm mounted somewhere between the top-middle and/or middle.

From what I saw when I was out there last summer, I think California is moving away from hanging their outermost signal heads from the top. All of the new overheads I saw now have the plumbizer mounted between the amber and red sections. Here's a newer example in Dana Point...

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2948/32805053304_3ee7d9e075_z.jpg

Thanks for the name help, there. I had no idea what those things were called (otherwise I would have used the term in my post, obviously).

They definitely have been moving away from it. They seem to be mostly prevalent in pre-mid-2000s install. I have also seen the "hanging left turn signal" in Oregon. I'm sure I've seen it in Washington too, but I can't remember where.

paulthemapguy

I do really enjoy California's curved mast arms.  When I was a small child, I fell in love with the curved mast arms that DuPage County used to use, and I wished every agency would use them.  It's nice to see them used all over California and in some adjacent states as well (looking at you, Arizona).
Avatar is the last interesting highway I clinched.
My website! http://www.paulacrossamerica.com Now featuring all of Ohio!
My USA Shield Gallery https://flic.kr/s/aHsmHwJRZk
TM Clinches https://bit.ly/2UwRs4O

National collection status: 361/425. Only 64 route markers remain

jakeroot

^^
Pierce County, WA also used those curved mast arms, oh-so-prevalent in California, for several years. But their most recent installations have been of the straight style. The few intersections that have them seem to be only curved mast arms in Western Washington (I think Spokane has quite a few).

roadman65

What I like about CA is that even on wide intersections they install mast arms where here in FL, the engineers claim that they cannot be installed as you will find many wide intersections using span wire even where the norm is mast arms. 

CA also uses 12 inch signal head back plates for 8 inch signal heads which no other state uses.  I do not even think that they will let a signal go without em (except SF) like in FL if one gets damaged they will remove it completely and not replace it usually.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

dfnva

I like when states, like California and Illinois, for example, install traffic signals in a number of locations in the intersection -- mounted/hung above the intersection, side pole or pedestal mounted, and near-side mounted.  Then, again, I also like how, traditionally, Virginia's VDOT (except Northern Virginia in the last 20-ish years), mounts a signal above each lane.  I think a mixture of these installation methods would be best.

UCFKnights

Quote from: roadman65 on August 13, 2017, 03:07:49 AM
What I like about CA is that even on wide intersections they install mast arms where here in FL, the engineers claim that they cannot be installed as you will find many wide intersections using span wire even where the norm is mast arms. 

CA also uses 12 inch signal head back plates for 8 inch signal heads which no other state uses.  I do not even think that they will let a signal go without em (except SF) like in FL if one gets damaged they will remove it completely and not replace it usually.
To be fair, I don't think outside of Orange County (or Central Florida at least) thats normal either. I don't think I've ever seen that in any of South Florida that didn't get repaired within a few months. I hate just about everything about how Orange County hangs and runs their signals.

RG407

Quote from: UCFKnights on August 13, 2017, 09:32:55 PM
To be fair, I don't think outside of Orange County (or Central Florida at least) thats normal either. I don't think I've ever seen that in any of South Florida that didn't get repaired within a few months. I hate just about everything about how Orange County hangs and runs their signals.

California's signal style very consistent all over the state.  Orange and Seminole Counties in Florida are a big mish-mash of designs, and they are all mostly ugly.

ixnay

Yes, blue.cable, CA's stoplights are very funk, er, interesting.  Thanks, Hollywood.   :cool:

ixnay
The Washington/Baltimore/Arlington CSA has two Key Bridges, a Minnesota Avenue, and a Mannasota Avenue.

SignBridge

I also find California signal configurations the most interesting. I especially like the curved mast-arms and the combination of overhead and post/pole mounted signals. It is the best of all worlds. Though sometimes I find Calif. a little overwhelming at major intersections where there are heads all over the place pointing all different ways.

Coming from New York where almost all signals are overhead, it took me some time to get used to Calif's signals on my first trip out there years ago. I even went thru a red light (!!!!!) one time when I was looking for an overhead that wasn't there and didn't see the (then) 8 inch pole mounted heads on either side. Friggin' scary; almost had an accident. But after I'd been there a week I was sold on Calif's system.

calsignalfan85

Anaheim area has a few straight mast arms. They are becoming more rare these days, but in the 90s there were a bunch of installations that utilized straight mast arms in Anaheim around the Knott's Berry Farm area.

8500 S Knott Ave at Crescent.

https://goo.gl/maps/jZMTKVwM5A62

mrsman

I feel CA does an excellent job of positioning the signals.  Since they are generally at different heights and positions, it is very unlikely that your view of them will be blocked by a truck.  And generally, this is done pretty efficiently, 3 signal faces per approach, even on very wide streets.

And backplates are absolutely necessary when driving into the sun.  I can't beleive that other states haven't figured out how important these are.  There are very few backplates in the area of suburban MD.

calsignalfan85

Most definitely. Born and raised in California myself, when I travel out of state I'm pretty surprised other stares do not follow their model, especially in states like New Mexico, which I currently reside in, which utilize a signals mounted in medians, specifically the Albuquerque area. I've been pretty spoiled also in California with protected left turns at the greater majority of intersections, for the most part with decent programming, detection and calibration of the detection systems, especially in the late evenings, when you pull up and can get a green arrow almost instantaneously. Lastly I really enjoy the structures used, from soft curving poles to much more angular ones. A lot of variation within a standard design. I love it

jakeroot

Quote from: calsignalfan85 on November 09, 2017, 04:20:21 AM
Anaheim area has a few straight mast arms. They are becoming more rare these days, but in the 90s there were a bunch of installations that utilized straight mast arms in Anaheim around the Knott's Berry Farm area.

8500 S Knott Ave at Crescent.

https://goo.gl/maps/jZMTKVwM5A62

I noticed these a few weeks ago, but I didn't realize it until seeing this post. Something looked funny about those signals, but I couldn't put my finger on it.

Brandon

Quote from: mrsman on November 10, 2017, 10:41:31 AM
I feel CA does an excellent job of positioning the signals.  Since they are generally at different heights and positions, it is very unlikely that your view of them will be blocked by a truck.  And generally, this is done pretty efficiently, 3 signal faces per approach, even on very wide streets.

And backplates are absolutely necessary when driving into the sun.  I can't beleive that other states haven't figured out how important these are.  There are very few backplates in the area of suburban MD.

Come to Illinois.  Outside of the City of Chicago, backplates are always found on the overhead signals, and some IDOT districts use them on all signals (such as District 3).
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

jakeroot

Quote from: Brandon on November 10, 2017, 05:13:00 PM
Quote from: mrsman on November 10, 2017, 10:41:31 AM
I feel CA does an excellent job of positioning the signals.  Since they are generally at different heights and positions, it is very unlikely that your view of them will be blocked by a truck.  And generally, this is done pretty efficiently, 3 signal faces per approach, even on very wide streets.

And backplates are absolutely necessary when driving into the sun.  I can't beleive that other states haven't figured out how important these are.  There are very few backplates in the area of suburban MD.

Come to Illinois.  Outside of the City of Chicago, backplates are always found on the overhead signals, and some IDOT districts use them on all signals (such as District 3).

I do find it rather interesting that Illinois, in addition to Colorado and British Columbia (and the city of Spokane, WA), generally only use backplates on overhead signals. Truthfully, backplates are really only necessary on overhead signals because that's where the sun is located. But as a matter of practice, most other areas that use post-/mast-mounted signals at all intersections (CA, AZ, NV, WI, MN, etc) use backplates with these signals. I guess I'm more surprised that a state's "signal design manual" (or whatever it's called) is that specific.

SignBridge

California and other jurisdictions are wise to use backplates on post/pole mounted signals. They are necessary due to background lighting, particularly storefront lighting and lighted advertising signs in commercial areas. My county hardly uses backplates ever, and I remember one pole-mount on the high side of a T-intersection that was almost invisible at night, viewed against a bright yellow lighted awning on a storefront. 

paulthemapguy

Quote from: Brandon on November 10, 2017, 05:13:00 PM
Come to Illinois.  Outside of the City of Chicago, backplates are always found on the overhead signals, and some IDOT districts use them on all signals (such as District 3).

When I was a kid, I was appalled by the lack of backplates on overhead signals when I'd leave the state, especially to go to points east.  District 3 and District 2 are both insistent on using backplates on every single signal head.  Overall, signal quality increases as you go west (highly general statement with obvious exceptions).  And what state is farthest west?

My only gripe about California's signals is that their signal heads aren't as abundant as they could be at some intersections.  I know the MUTCD specifies that there should always be at least two green balls for thru traffic, and I'm not aware of anything specifically requesting multiple signal heads for turning traffic.  But it still bothers me when I only see one signal head with left arrows, even if there's only one left turn lane.  Same goes for right arrows.  There should be a backup signal head for all movements in case one dies out, in my opinion.  I also think there should be one signal head for each thru lane...There are places in CA where I'll still only see two green balls for three lanes of thru traffic.
Avatar is the last interesting highway I clinched.
My website! http://www.paulacrossamerica.com Now featuring all of Ohio!
My USA Shield Gallery https://flic.kr/s/aHsmHwJRZk
TM Clinches https://bit.ly/2UwRs4O

National collection status: 361/425. Only 64 route markers remain

hotdogPi

Quote from: paulthemapguy on November 10, 2017, 07:57:16 PM
And what state is farthest west?

Even ignoring Alaska and Hawaii, Washington and Oregon are both farther west than California, whether you determine it by westernmost point, geographical center, or center of population.
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

jakeroot

Quote from: paulthemapguy on November 10, 2017, 07:57:16 PM
My only gripe about California's signals is that their signal heads aren't as abundant as they could be at some intersections.  I know the MUTCD specifies that there should always be at least two green balls for thru traffic, and I'm not aware of anything specifically requesting multiple signal heads for turning traffic.  But it still bothers me when I only see one signal head with left arrows, even if there's only one left turn lane.  Same goes for right arrows.  There should be a backup signal head for all movements in case one dies out, in my opinion.  I also think there should be one signal head for each thru lane...There are places in CA where I'll still only see two green balls for three lanes of thru traffic.

I need some clarification here. California, evidently, requires a pole-mounted signal head for each movement, and a minimum of two signals per movement. A typical setup, assuming three through lanes, two left turn lanes (no u-turn permitted), and one right turn lane, would be to have one left turn signal overhead, one left turn signal mast/pole mounted on the far left, one or two through signals mounted overhead, and two 5-section towers mounted on the far-right and near-right side of the intersection (the near-side being pole mounted and the far side being attached to the mast usually). California does not prescribe to the signal-per-lane philosophy, instead opting for signals in other areas, such as in corners, and attached to poles or masts. It's not unusual to see one overhead signal (left or straight movement) for three lanes, with additional supplementary signals in the corners of the intersection.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.