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Old NJ Turnpike Photos

Started by Steve D, January 30, 2013, 08:47:56 PM

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Alps

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 01, 2013, 02:58:48 PM
I *think* the Art Deco Style sign still exists on the PA Turnpike Extension EB just before the North/South mainline, which can be seen from I-295.  On my way home today I'll try to take a glance to see if it's still there.
The? There were two of them.


Duke87

Still there as of a couple weeks ago but their days are obviously numbered.
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

roadman

Quote from: Steve D on January 31, 2013, 09:32:52 PM
Part 2...

The signs for the northbound Western Spur split are unveiled for the Western Spur opening in January 1970.  These signs were quickly replaced by drum-style VMS signs around 1973 and then again around 2005.


Another set of signs for the northbound split for the Western Spur, a mile south of the previous.  Again, no drum-style VMS in 1970.  The top sign said TURNPIKE DIVIDES 1 MILE AHEAD (black on yellow).

I find it curious that, on the "1 mile" set of OH signs, the "E" exits and destinations are on the left, with a "Keep Left" designation, and the "W" exits and designations are on the right, with a "Keep Right" designation.

When you then look at the second set of OH signs apporoaching the split, the exit numbers and destinations are reversed (i.e. "W" is now left side and "E" is now right side).

I wonder if the "near" set of signs (second photo from top) is actually at an entrance ramp "split" upon leaving a toll plaza, as opposed to the Turnpike mainline itself.
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

SignBridge

#28
 One set of signs was on the "car lanes" and the other was on the "truck lanes". Looking at it on Google Earth, you can see that in the car lanes the "E" exits are to the left and the "W" exits are to the right. On the truck lanes its the opposite.

Maybe somebody can help me out here with the more recent construction. When did they built that third set of lanes each way north from Exit-14 to the "mixing bowl" just before Exit-15? I only noticed them last year when I drove the Turnpike. Don't remember them before that, though I do remember some construction in that area a couple of years before.

Alps

Quote from: SignBridge on February 01, 2013, 08:35:53 PM
One set of signs was on the "car lanes" and the other was on the "truck lanes". Looking at it on Google Earth, you can see that in the car lanes the "E" exits are to the left and the "W" exits are to the right. On the truck lanes its the opposite.

Maybe somebody can help me out here with the more recent construction. When did they built that third set of lanes each way north from Exit-14 to the "mixing bowl" just before Exit-15? I only noticed them last year when I drove the Turnpike. Don't remember them before that, though I do remember some construction in that area a couple of years before.
They're somewhat older than that. Check www.historicaerials.com and you can narrow it down.

Duke87

1995 aerial shows them under construction.

Which is interesting. I thought I remembered the SB exit 14 being at the interchange rather than before the spurs merged, and I remember you had to take the cars/trucks/buses lanes to get to it. This tripped me up one time years back (I assume shortly after the extra roadways opened) when I was giving my father directions from the passenger seat - we ended up missing the exit, taking exit 13A instead, and asking the toll collector how to get back to I-78. After this happened I convinced myself I had simply misremembered where the exit was. Turns out I was right all along, it was that way before, and I remembered correctly! Hah!
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

SignBridge

I'm sure you're not the first or the last people to ask that question at Exit-13A. I've been interested in this stuff since I was a little kid in the 1950's and even I'm getting dizzy looking at all these lanes and parallel roadways on Google Earth. LOL Highways are finally getting too complicated even for me! Funny, when I was a teenager in the 1960's I didn't have this problem with the then new expanded Geo. Washington Br. complex interchanges. Spent hours diagramming them instead of doing my homework.....

jeffandnicole

Quote from: Steve on February 01, 2013, 06:47:13 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 01, 2013, 02:58:48 PM
I *think* the Art Deco Style sign still exists on the PA Turnpike Extension EB just before the North/South mainline, which can be seen from I-295.  On my way home today I'll try to take a glance to see if it's still there.
The? There were two of them.
You're right...I often forget about the one closest to the interchange.  The one I was thinking of is easily visible when on 295, passing over the Turnpike's PA extension.

And yes, it's still there.

D-Dey65

Art Deco? I don't think so. This is Googie style.


roadman65

You know one thing if you look at the way the road is signed, you can get a glimpse of what was originally signed and figure out the history of the how the Turnpike was originally signed.

For example the SB Eastern Spur has no information  on Exit 15E guide signs about Newark- Jersey City or even US 1 & 9 or US 1 & 9 Truck.  The guide signs just reveal exit number only.  That is because growing up in the Garden State we New Jerseyans would use the exit numbers on both the Turnpike and Parkway very much over the names and road names as reference points in directions on these roads.  The Turnpike, being a closed ticket system, has the information on the tickets anyway.

Of course, now the NJTA will not modernize or should I say standardize the signage as there are far too many other road projects to compete with for funding.  As to go cheap, the elevated structure leading to Exit 15E makes it impossible to add small lgses and the light poles will not allow for a larger than traffic control device to be installed either.  The argument about people knowing Exit 15E all too well is played on me when I wrote to the NJTA about it was explained and that no one has ever complained about it.

Anyway, for years I often remember the sign bridge east of the Exit 14 plaza that was built the same way as the Exit 6 overhead, but having external button copy panels over the backlit built in ones that Exit 6 (and the Newark Bay Extension) had.  Then seeing an old Michael Summa photo submitted to a road geek site, I seen that originally it was a sign assembly with backlit signage.  The panels were added when I-78 and I-95 came into existence as a way to replace the signage without having to replace the entire structure.  Now of course, it has been replaced.

You can easily tell what was a copy of what was before it, by the way information is written.  If the exit number appears at the bottom of the sign, its either the original or a replacement due to age, accident, etc.   The original way the NJT was signed was exit number only at 2 miles with the distance to the next exit after that, at one mile was the route number (if it had one) with the control cities, and exit number below with the bottom border extended at the number itself, at one half mile a sign with route number and control points was signed lacking exit number and 1/2 mile, and at exit were exit number only!  At the start of the deceleration lane was a "EXIT X" with a curved arrow (same as the overhead at exit guide used now) and a "KEEP RIGHT" panel below it and a gore exit sign that was the same shape as the Garden State Parkway's entrance ramp signs with the right side of the sign slanted with the arrow.

I believe the NJTA was trying to force people to learn the exit numbers and implement the way people were thinking at the time to use them in standard talk, hence the larger than normal exit numbers and the more frequent use of them over the road name or cities. 
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

SignBridge

Roadman65, you have a good memory for this stuff. Your description of the original NJT signing matches my own memories exactly.

vdeane

Quote from: roadman65 on February 02, 2013, 11:47:11 AM
I believe the NJTA was trying to force people to learn the exit numbers and implement the way people were thinking at the time to use them in standard talk, hence the larger than normal exit numbers and the more frequent use of them over the road name or cities. 
Well, they succeeded in a way no one else did.  Nowhere else in the country are exit numbers so pervasive.  In NY most people don't even pay attention to them.  NY could convert to distance-based numbers tomorrow and nobody would notice (maybe I should point that out... there's no reason they would need to spend extra money on conversion since nobody uses the numbers except us roadgeeks, so they could replace signs on the normal schedule).  Conversion on the Turnpike will likely be painful.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

roadman65

You know its a shame, once the 6-9 widening is completed the last of the original will be gone.   Currently the NB Exit 6 signs are duplicates of the original signing hence the lack of overhead signs there.  SB you had the classic art decco overhead that was left there as long as it did.  It was always there and someone felt that the sign was still doing its job, it can stay.  I do not know exactly why the NB Exit 6 signs were never modernized over the years, and it was the only Turnpike interchange to not have overheads to this day.

Now, it has to go because of the new interchange configuration.  It is a shame, as it was part of history.  You think that a duplicate one would be made for the new outer roadway and keep some of the nostalgia.  I also believe that the Exit 2 plaza is the only original NJT toll booths left unless 3,4, and 5 are still of the original.  I always liked the classic design with the slanted roof and wide lanes.  Maybe that is where Wawa Food Stores got the idea for their gas pump overhang?
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

akotchi

The northbound Exit 6 signs were changed in about 2002 when the U.S. 130 interchange on the Pa Extension was reconstructed, though they were not placed overhead.  I think originally they only said "Pennsylvania Turnpike" on them.

The widening in this area does not leave enough room in the median between inner and outer for the guide signs to be ground-mounted.
Opinions here attributed to me are mine alone and do not reflect those of my employer or the agencies for which I am contracted to do work.

roadman65

Quote from: akotchi on February 02, 2013, 06:35:24 PM
The northbound Exit 6 signs were changed in about 2002 when the U.S. 130 interchange on the Pa Extension was reconstructed, though they were not placed overhead.  I think originally they only said "Pennsylvania Turnpike" on them.

The widening in this area does not leave enough room in the median between inner and outer for the guide signs to be ground-mounted.
There was even one that said Exit 6 FOR Pennsylvania Turnpike as one of them.  I believe that was a  failed trend that ended up being only used on the Turnpike.  Now, the NJTA is using  the exit number at the bottom of auxillary signs along with "USE" as the Exit 11 SB auxilllary for the The Amboys and Shore Points are now used as well as Rutgers at Exit 9 is now without for or use and the exit number below the university name.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

roadman

Thanks SignBridge for the clarification.
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

ARMOURERERIC

There was a 1977 movie called Heroes starring Henry Winkler and Sally Field and in the flim was a shot of a PA turnpike exit sign of the NJ Turnpike, all I can remember was that it was a non overhead roadside mounted sign.

jeffandnicole

Quote

Now, it has to go because of the new interchange configuration.  It is a shame, as it was part of history.  You think that a duplicate one would be made for the new outer roadway and keep some of the nostalgia.  I also believe that the Exit 2 plaza is the only original NJT toll booths left unless 3,4, and 5 are still of the original.  I always liked the classic design with the slanted roof and wide lanes.  Maybe that is where Wawa Food Stores got the idea for their gas pump overhang?

The original toll plazas at 2, 3, 4 & 5 all still exist, although all are modified. 2 & 5 received an additional lane when EZ Pass came about, so there would be 2 lanes for both entering & exiting traffic. 3 & 4 have been widened over the years.

I want to say some of the plazas up north (ie: 9) have their original structures in use as well.

Alps

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 03, 2013, 03:30:58 AM
Quote

Now, it has to go because of the new interchange configuration.  It is a shame, as it was part of history.  You think that a duplicate one would be made for the new outer roadway and keep some of the nostalgia.  I also believe that the Exit 2 plaza is the only original NJT toll booths left unless 3,4, and 5 are still of the original.  I always liked the classic design with the slanted roof and wide lanes.  Maybe that is where Wawa Food Stores got the idea for their gas pump overhang?

The original toll plazas at 2, 3, 4 & 5 all still exist, although all are modified. 2 & 5 received an additional lane when EZ Pass came about, so there would be 2 lanes for both entering & exiting traffic. 3 & 4 have been widened over the years.

I want to say some of the plazas up north (ie: 9) have their original structures in use as well.

With 8 just moved over, here are the remaining interchanges with original structures:
8A (although a newer interchange to begin with, so it only half counts)
13A (same, a newer interchange)
15E (albeit widened over the years)
15W (a newer interchange)
15X (brand new)
16W (also newer)

Steve D

Quote from: Steve on February 03, 2013, 07:55:09 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 03, 2013, 03:30:58 AM
Quote

Now, it has to go because of the new interchange configuration.  It is a shame, as it was part of history.  You think that a duplicate one would be made for the new outer roadway and keep some of the nostalgia.  I also believe that the Exit 2 plaza is the only original NJT toll booths left unless 3,4, and 5 are still of the original.  I always liked the classic design with the slanted roof and wide lanes.  Maybe that is where Wawa Food Stores got the idea for their gas pump overhang?

The original toll plazas at 2, 3, 4 & 5 all still exist, although all are modified. 2 & 5 received an additional lane when EZ Pass came about, so there would be 2 lanes for both entering & exiting traffic. 3 & 4 have been widened over the years.

I want to say some of the plazas up north (ie: 9) have their original structures in use as well.

With 8 just moved over, here are the remaining interchanges with original structures:
8A (although a newer interchange to begin with, so it only half counts)
13A (same, a newer interchange)
15E (albeit widened over the years)
15W (a newer interchange)
15X (brand new)
16W (also newer)


15E was originally the old slanted roof type and was re-built from scratch in phases during the 1966-1970 Western Spur widening.
Exit 9 same; re-built from scratch during the 1971-74 widening.  I will post a picture of that in-progress toll booth transition in the next batch following today's pictures.

Steve D

Part 3....

This is one of the Turnpike "holy grail" pictures, showing both maybe the only the evidence of the small dual/dual section near the original exit 13 and one of the first overhead signs (pre-dating the funky 1956 art deco signs).  This original dual/dual section had two lanes for express and two lanes for local from 1951 until 1965 when the new interchange 13 opened.  The original exit 13 was located about one mile north of the current, consisting of a loop design similar to that of the original exit 14 I posted.  It had a small toll booth and exited directly to Trenton Avenue (today a warehouse sits on the site).  The new exit 13 opened in 1965, four years prior to the truck/bus lane opening.  However, while the truck/bus project actually started one year later in 1966, exit 13 opened in 1965 with stubs and widened bridges for the future lanes (I think the truck/bus lane concept was approved in 1963).  I've seen a few photos of the stubs but unfortunately do not have them.


Another rarity - maybe the only photo of exit 12 in its short lived configuration between 1962 and 1969.  This revised design replaced the half-diamond interchange (northbound entry/southbound exit).  I've seen photos of that half diamond and am trying to track down.  Interesting that those two movements seem available in the picture below while they are still building the missing movements.  For the 1969 widening the main bridge below was expanded westward (not re-built; you can see evidence today that there are two different sections/styles), ramps added, and the trumpet reversed. (North is to the right)


Exit 11 during re-building in 1968.


Approaching exit 11 northbound.  Note the original sign style, with the exit number in a hump at the bottom.  Also, only two lanes and no median.  Isn't it also interesting that both overpasses above were built with enough room to almost double capacity in the future?  Also, is it ironic that at the one point the Turnpike crosses the Parkway a third road just happens to cross on top?


To be continued....

roadman65

Like the way the Turnpike looked while crossing under the Parkway and Main Street using pretty much the same bridges above.  They were smart in doing that so that expansions on both Toll Roads could be accomodated down the road.  It is also so neat to actually see the Parkway overpass in its original state before the Exit 129 ramps were added to make the structure wider and more modern looking as today.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

NJRoadfan

Quote from: Steve D on February 03, 2013, 10:45:03 AM
Part 3....

This is one of the Turnpike "holy grail" pictures, showing both maybe the only the evidence of the small dual/dual section near the original exit 13 and one of the first overhead signs (pre-dating the funky 1956 art deco signs).  This original dual/dual section had two lanes for express and two lanes for local from 1951 until 1965 when the new interchange 13 opened.

I have scans from a 1955 Turnpike informational brochure that has an overhead photo of this early dual-dual configuration in Elizabeth. It also includes the double decker photo you posted with the caption "Unusual Tri-level Construction in the Woodbridge area"

Steve D

Quote from: NJRoadfan on February 03, 2013, 01:13:50 PM
Quote from: Steve D on February 03, 2013, 10:45:03 AM
Part 3....

This is one of the Turnpike "holy grail" pictures, showing both maybe the only the evidence of the small dual/dual section near the original exit 13 and one of the first overhead signs (pre-dating the funky 1956 art deco signs).  This original dual/dual section had two lanes for express and two lanes for local from 1951 until 1965 when the new interchange 13 opened.

I have scans from a 1955 Turnpike informational brochure that has an overhead photo of this early dual-dual configuration in Elizabeth. It also includes the double decker photo you posted with the caption "Unusual Tri-level Construction in the Woodbridge area"

Cool!  Many of these photos come from old Turnpike documents that I've borrowed or collected.

Steve D

Quote from: Steve D on February 03, 2013, 10:45:03 AM
Part 3....

This is one of the Turnpike "holy grail" pictures, showing both maybe the only the evidence of the small dual/dual section near the original exit 13 and one of the first overhead signs (pre-dating the funky 1956 art deco signs).  This original dual/dual section had two lanes for express and two lanes for local from 1951 until 1965 when the new interchange 13 opened.  The original exit 13 was located about one mile north of the current, consisting of a loop design similar to that of the original exit 14 I posted.  It had a small toll booth and exited directly to Trenton Avenue (today a warehouse sits on the site).  The new exit 13 opened in 1965, four years prior to the truck/bus lane opening.  However, while the truck/bus project actually started one year later in 1966, exit 13 opened in 1965 with stubs and widened bridges for the future lanes (I think the truck/bus lane concept was approved in 1963).  I've seen a few photos of the stubs but unfortunately do not have them.

Correction - the new exit 13 opened in phases beginning in 1966, not 1965



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