Rental car: Trunk taped shut?

[SteveG1988]

Some of us remove the dealer's license plate frame the second the car leaves the lot.

Yes indeed...and peel off the sticker with the dealership's name on the back glass or back bumper.  The way I look at it, they didn't pay for the space on my car to advertise themselves.

The only time I've kept the license plate frame is when I worked for the said dealership.

Some areas in Texas over-enforce the "nothing shall obstruct the license plate" law to mean that all license plate frames are forbidden. The last car I bought, about four different people in the finalizing process offered to remove the frame for me. They said they are required to have them on all cars sold, but have had enough dissatisfaction from new car purchasers having been ticketed and fined that they are trying to find the right balance between following the corporate mandate and (the local interpretation of) the law.

I have seen several modifications of the badges and markings, too. It's fairly common to see "OMG" tacked just in front of "AWD"  or to see the "X" peeled away from the Carmax logo.

I am okay with the plate frame version of dealer advertizing. It is easily removed, can sometimes serve a purpose, and is fairly innocent.

[briantroutman]

There is an old tradition, at least in finer goods, of a retailer leaving some kind of an insignia on products–a label sewn into the lining of a coat, an imprint inside the front cover of a book, etc. It's a relic of an era when well-heeled customers had cordial relationships with local merchants who assorted some of the finer things the world had to offer and brought them to their clients on a personal basis. So assumably in that world, the customer was more receptive to associating him/herself with the discriminating taste of the merchant.

Now–and particularly in automobile sales–you know as much about the product as the dealer. He's merely an impediment (and additional layer of mark-up) standing between you and what you already know you want to buy. If you could do an Amazon-style one click order directly with the manufacturer, you probably would. And so most consumers only think of auto dealers as "those **** who screwed me" .

On a wider scale, I look at it this way: There's a lot of focus on buying local.

I don't think car dealers offer a good analogy to the costermongers who support a locavorist lifestyle...

Without debating the merits of local car dealers being a legitimate part of the "shop local"  movement, I can definitely say that the perception that they are does exist, particularly in smaller communities where you're more likely to find long-running family owned dealerships. In my hometown, there was a very obvious contrast between the local dealers–who sponsored Little League teams, were fixtures at Rotary meetings, had children in the local schools, etc.–and the regional superstores. If you wanted a rock-bottom price, you'd drive an hour or more to one of the destination superstores, but if you wanted to amble down the street to the local showroom, shoot the breeze over the hood of a new '87 Taurus, and feel like an upstanding citizen, you'd buy from Lee Folk Ford.

My understanding, though, is that changes in the size and ownership of car dealerships has in recent years paralleled what has happened in radio, which is to say that most of the small town operations have folded, and control rests with a decreasing number of multi-billion-dollar owners.

I think dealer frames serve some other purposes, too. Sometimes the reverse of the example above–as a way of saying "Screw you overpriced dealers of [name of town]. I went all the way to [other far away city] to get my car."  Or if the dealer plate is from far away, it can say "Yes I now live in this miserable state/town but I used to live in ______."   A dealer plate frame makes the statement a bit subtler because it's not as if you went out and purchased it–it came with the car.

* * *

Returning the Sentra, I saw another Sentra with its trunk seal still in place (albeit broken), so I snapped a pic.

[SP Cook]

I don't care a bit about "buying local" , be it cars or food.

As to dealer ads on cars, these come off my car, day one.  We have a couple of dealers around here that put the front plate holder on (we don't have front plates) and puts an ad plate on there.  Front plate holders ruin the look of many cars and I would pass those lots if I had such a car in mind. 

NC has a rule about plate frames, which gets enforced.  Nothing can cover the state name or any validation stickers.  Enforced both in and out of state cars.

But the thing that amazes me is people that pay for a personalized plate, and then put a dealer frame around it.  You paid extra for a design and then let the dealer put a frame around it? 

[The Nature Boy]

I don't care a bit about "buying local" , be it cars or food.

As to dealer ads on cars, these come off my car, day one.  We have a couple of dealers around here that put the front plate holder on (we don't have front plates) and puts an ad plate on there.  Front plate holders ruin the look of many cars and I would pass those lots if I had such a car in mind. 

NC has a rule about plate frames, which gets enforced.  Nothing can cover the state name or any validation stickers.  Enforced both in and out of state cars.

But the thing that amazes me is people that pay for a personalized plate, and then put a dealer frame around it.  You paid extra for a design and then let the dealer put a frame around it?

What parts of North Carolina do they enforce the plate frame thing? I've driven all over the state with my car and my plate frame (for my alma mater) and have never once encountered any trouble for it.

I've seen tons of people with dealer or other plate frames who aren't stopped either.

[roadman]

NC has a rule about plate frames, which gets enforced.  Nothing can cover the state name or any validation stickers.  Enforced both in and out of state cars.

Massachusetts has a similar law.  Although only the state name, numbers, and valdation sticker are supposed to remain unobscured, some inspection stations are overzealous and will flunk you if the frame obscures the slogan (The Spirit Of America) as well.  This despite court rulings upholding the right of individuals to cover the slogan.

[spooky]

NC has a rule about plate frames, which gets enforced.  Nothing can cover the state name or any validation stickers.  Enforced both in and out of state cars.

Massachusetts has a similar law.  Although only the state name, numbers, and valdation sticker are supposed to remain unobscured, some inspection stations are overzealous and will flunk you if the frame obscures the slogan (The Spirit Of America) as well.  This despite court rulings upholding the right of individuals to cover the slogan.

An inspection station in Quincy removed a Red Sox license plate frame from my wife's car because it obscured the state name. They didn't flunk it, but when she picked it up they made no mention of removing it until she asked why it was gone. "Oh we had to take it off because it covers 'Massachusetts'. Do you want it? I think it's still in the trash can."

Must have been a Yankees fan.

[jeffandnicole]

NJ has a similar law that prohibits obscuring any part of the license plate.  It's usually not enforced, but if a cop needs a reason to stop someone, this provides that reason.

NC has a rule about plate frames, which gets enforced.  Nothing can cover the state name or any validation stickers.  Enforced both in and out of state cars.

Massachusetts has a similar law.  Although only the state name, numbers, and valdation sticker are supposed to remain unobscured, some inspection stations are overzealous and will flunk you if the frame obscures the slogan (The Spirit Of America) as well.  This despite court rulings upholding the right of individuals to cover the slogan.

This is why private inspection station states are bad.  They can literally hold your car hostage for the slightest of reasons...and questionable reasons.  I've heard some stories from my PA coworkers about the things that need to be fixed on their 1 or 2 year old cars, problems which never seem to occur to cars in states with public inspection stations or none at all.

[1995hoo]

I don't care a bit about "buying local" , be it cars or food.

As to dealer ads on cars, these come off my car, day one.  We have a couple of dealers around here that put the front plate holder on (we don't have front plates) and puts an ad plate on there.  Front plate holders ruin the look of many cars and I would pass those lots if I had such a car in mind. 

NC has a rule about plate frames, which gets enforced.  Nothing can cover the state name or any validation stickers.  Enforced both in and out of state cars.

But the thing that amazes me is people that pay for a personalized plate, and then put a dealer frame around it.  You paid extra for a design and then let the dealer put a frame around it?

What parts of North Carolina do they enforce the plate frame thing? I've driven all over the state with my car and my plate frame (for my alma mater) and have never once encountered any trouble for it.

I've seen tons of people with dealer or other plate frames who aren't stopped either.

I've had no problems in North Carolina either. I have a feeling it's the sort of thing the average cop is unlikely to do much about unless you've done something else to draw his attention.

Regarding dealer-supplied plate frames, the Acura dealer from whom I bought my car normally puts one on the car in lieu of a dealer nameplate or sticker, but since I had the plates from my prior car (declared a total by insurance), when I handed them the plates I gave them the plate frame I was already using and they put that on instead of theirs. Nice.

As far as front plates go, having both front and rear plates is the law here and it's pretty much a given that you'll get stopped at some point if you have Virginia plates but don't display the front plate. More importantly, even if Virginia cops ignore you, DC's parking enforcement will give you a ticket, so I just deal with it. (I'm completely serious. DC law requires front and rear plates on all vehicles, but the law contains an exception for vehicles from states that issue only a rear plate. If your vehicle is not bearing a plate from one of those states and you don't have a front plate displayed, DC will ticket you.)

[J N Winkler]

Briantroutman--many thanks for a thoughtful post.

There is an old tradition, at least in finer goods, of a retailer leaving some kind of an insignia on products–a label sewn into the lining of a coat, an imprint inside the front cover of a book, etc. It's a relic of an era when well-heeled customers had cordial relationships with local merchants who assorted some of the finer things the world had to offer and brought them to their clients on a personal basis. So assumably in that world, the customer was more receptive to associating him/herself with the discriminating taste of the merchant.

In the case of automobiles, I don't think this long survived the days of custom coach bodies.

Now–and particularly in automobile sales–you know as much about the product as the dealer. He's merely an impediment (and additional layer of mark-up) standing between you and what you already know you want to buy. If you could do an Amazon-style one click order directly with the manufacturer, you probably would. And so most consumers only think of auto dealers as "those **** who screwed me" .

Dealers also still have a role as repair shops of last resort.  If you have a problem with a car that requires access to a $3000 piece of diagnostic equipment, the dealer is probably the only place where you will find it.  Some ostensibly simple repair operations are literally impossible to perform correctly without such high-end equipment.  For example, in my 1994 Saturn with ABS, I cannot replace the pads in the rear disc brakes without a tool to "park" the ABS motors so the old pads can be removed.  (There is a hillbilly DIY procedure for parking the motors that involves removing a connector and shorting two terminals, but as this causes the pistons to move up abruptly, it can damage the motor pack and is not recommended.)

This is one reason (besides dealers being an entrenched lobby) that I seriously doubt we will ever transition to being able to buy cars as if they were white goods like refrigerators or microwaves.

Without debating the merits of local car dealers being a legitimate part of the "shop local"  movement, I can definitely say that the perception that they are does exist, particularly in smaller communities where you're more likely to find long-running family owned dealerships. In my hometown, there was a very obvious contrast between the local dealers–who sponsored Little League teams, were fixtures at Rotary meetings, had children in the local schools, etc.–and the regional superstores. If you wanted a rock-bottom price, you'd drive an hour or more to one of the destination superstores, but if you wanted to amble down the street to the local showroom, shoot the breeze over the hood of a new '87 Taurus, and feel like an upstanding citizen, you'd buy from Lee Folk Ford.

This can run in the other direction too.  For example, in the autumn of 1985, my parents drove to Arkansas City (about 60 miles away from Wichita) to buy a 1986 Nissan Maxima from Zane Gray Nissan, a small dealer based there.  It would have been more convenient to buy in Wichita, but at the time the Maxima was so popular (rave reviews in Consumer Reports, etc.) that all of the Wichita-area dealers were selling it at a huge markup over MSRP.  Zane Gray was the only dealer my parents could find within reasonable driving distance of Wichita that was not gouging and would sell them the car at MSRP.  The car wound up staying in the family for 22 years, during which time it was driven to 44 US states, 4 Canadian provinces, and 2 Mexican states, and it outlasted the dealership, which folded about 10 years after the original purchase despite its Western-author name.

My understanding, though, is that changes in the size and ownership of car dealerships has in recent years paralleled what has happened in radio, which is to say that most of the small town operations have folded, and control rests with a decreasing number of multi-billion-dollar owners.

I think dealer frames serve some other purposes, too. Sometimes the reverse of the example above–as a way of saying "Screw you overpriced dealers of [name of town]. I went all the way to [other far away city] to get my car."  Or if the dealer plate is from far away, it can say "Yes I now live in this miserable state/town but I used to live in ______."   A dealer plate frame makes the statement a bit subtler because it's not as if you went out and purchased it–it came with the car.

I don't think there is a new-car dealership left even in Wichita, a mid-size town of about 400,000 people, that qualifies as a small, community-focused operation.  And some of them have baggage that would make it very strange for them to do things like sponsoring Little League teams.  As an example, the founder of the major Ford dealership in Wichita had to go to federal prison in the 1970's for income tax evasion.  He was also a notorious womanizer and serial sex harasser and at the time he died, shortly after 2000, he was under indictment for having sex with an underage girl.  When my aunt did accounting work at his dealership at the start of her career in the mid-1970's, her bosses warned her that he had a glass table in his conference room, so she should always wear slacks; moreover, she should take pains never to be alone with him in the same room.

There is one Chevy dealership in Park City (just north of Wichita) that, though a large operation, has been in the same family for three generations.  The current owner is now a woman.  I could see someone agreeing to her putting the dealer name on a new car, on the basis that car dealers (and auto sales in general) are far too male-dominated and that gender balance would not just get rid of the glass ceiling but also ameliorate the shopping experience for customers regardless of gender.  I would not agree to it myself, however, because the dealership is still under the name of the two previous male owners.

[oscar]

There is one Chevy dealership in Park City (just north of Wichita) that, though a large operation, has been in the same family for three generations.  The current owner is now a woman.  I could see someone agreeing to her putting the dealer name on a new car, on the basis that car dealers (and auto sales in general) are far too male-dominated and that gender balance would not just get rid of the glass ceiling but also ameliorate the shopping experience for customers regardless of gender.  I would not agree to it myself, however, because the dealership is still under the name of the two previous male owners.

The Washington D.C. area has a few auto dealers who have or imply female ownership, including at least Karen Radley Acura and Volkswagen (but some other Radley dealerships do not carry her name), and the huge Koons chain (Krystal Koons shows up a lot in the company's ads, but I'm not sure where she fits in her family's business). Both companies are large enough operations that, if you shop there, the odds of your ever seeing Karen or Krystal are pretty close to zero.

Tammy Darvish was also a well-known female name among local car dealers, as an executive VP and front person for the local Darcars dealership network, but that went away after she sued her father over ownership of the company.

[Pete from Boston]

My impression is that the great majority of small dealerships in this area (and in general, frankly) got flushed out during the 2008 auto industry collapse.  I recall automakers revoking the franchise of some, but others surely just took too big a hit from the drop in liquid consumer funds.

[SteveG1988]

The Ford Lincoln and in the lot next to theirs, Subaru Dealer here is fairly good. They are still a local operation and the service department at the ford side actually has good sales on stuff like batteries and tires. All they do is sell Ford/Lincoln and Subaru, as well as a truck leasing company. All locally based, their dealer sticker has not changed much in 25 years. Just says MILLER in a very 80s font with MT HOLLY NJ underneath. I am not a fan of these regional mega dealers that seem to downgrade car buying into a shopping experience and overcharge due to the franchise price of having that big name.

[formulanone]

Trends of dealership consolidations and acquisitions has been on the rise for a few years now. There's still some single-rooftop dealers or those with 2-3 stores in one city (usually dominating the local market in a small way), but it's becoming increasingly less the case, nationwide. There's some successful dealers in which the owner is set to retire, but the family wants nothing to do with the business, so it becomes part of a Large Dealer Group's portfolio.

That said, I've worked for dealers in which the customer actually wants the license plate frame in place of the one the car is already sporting. So some have a great reputation, and others either do not, or have no reputation nor heritage to flaunt. That's a big reason many "new points" have names like "Nissan of North Southchesterburg" or "Central Valleyton Audi" which is convienent during a change of ownership or a turnover in staff doesn't tarnish the name.

[Duke87]

I dislike plate frames of any sort simply for aesthetic reasons. I prefer the simpler look of a bare plate.

[Pete from Boston]

I dislike plate frames of any sort simply for aesthetic reasons. I prefer the simpler look of a bare plate.

I never saw the need until wrestling in between snow banks winter after winter turned my front plate into something like a crumpled-up napkin.  I need some kind of rigid-backed frame on there.

[1995hoo]

I dislike plate frames of any sort simply for aesthetic reasons. I prefer the simpler look of a bare plate.

I should probably have one for the front plate on my RX-7 because the car was not designed with a front plate in mind and the bracket they added is of a design that means if someone parallel-parks New York—style, the plate gets nicked and beat-up. The bracket is essentially just two small vertical pieces of metal to which the plate gets bolted.

[US81]

http://www.kwtx.com/home/headlines/5846986.html

http://www.snopes.com/politics/traffic/texasplate.asp "The Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS) provided us with the ambiguous answer that "the new language could affect license plate brackets, borders or frames if they interfere with the 'readability' of the state where the vehicle is registered" and noted that "DPS policy and interpretation are not binding on law enforcement agencies around the state." In other words, it's up to every local police department to interpret the new law as it sees fit, and any definitive interpretation will come only once some cases involving this law have been brought before the Texas judicial system."

The reported experience of drivers in some areas is that police can use this law both as justification for a stop for an otherwise law-abiding driver and as an add-on to increase revenue by generating multiple offenses from one stop.

[jeffandnicole]

The reported experience of drivers in some areas is that police can use this law (license plate frames) both as justification for a stop for an otherwise law-abiding driver...

The following would work as well:

The reported experience of drivers in some areas is that police can use this law (broken headlight) both as justification for a stop for an otherwise law-abiding driver...

Or....

The reported experience of drivers in some areas is that police can use this law (speeding) both as justification for a stop for an otherwise law-abiding driver...

It doesn't matter the violation, and if the driver is otherwise doing everything right:  If the driver is operating a car that's not operating legally in some fashion, he/she can be stopped and ticketed.

While some people discount the importance of being able to see the state name on the tag number, it would be important if a cop was trying to determine what state that tag was from.  Or, if AAA-123 went thru a red light camera intersection, or a toll lane without paying and it was caught on camera, someone reviewing that may mistake one state's plate for another, and send the bill to the wrong person.  And we've read horror stories on here of people trying to get it dismissed because it wasn't their car!

[1995hoo]

....

While some people discount the importance of being able to see the state name on the tag number, it would be important if a cop was trying to determine what state that tag was from.  Or, if AAA-123 went thru a red light camera intersection, or a toll lane without paying and it was caught on camera, someone reviewing that may mistake one state's plate for another, and send the bill to the wrong person.  And we've read horror stories on here of people trying to get it dismissed because it wasn't their car!

Absolutely. I had a friend in high school who took great delight in the fact that his license-plate frame covered up part of one of the letters in his plate number. Because of that, I still remember that his plate began with "OEY" (I do not remember the numbers) but it looked like "OFY" due to the frame. That sort of thing should be grounds for a ticket, IMO, though I'd find it reasonable if the cop stopping such a person simply pulled out a socket wrench and said, "Remove the frame right now while I watch."

I'm a bit surprised my wife has never gotten a ticket because she has a plate frame on the front of her car that covers up not only the state name but also the "month" and "year" expiration-date stickers. Covering up the state name likely isn't a big deal because it hasn't been driven further from home than Linden, Virginia (about 60 miles west of home), in the past few years, but covering up the expiration date is a problem. The rear plate is unobstructed, though.

[jeffandnicole]

...the "month" and "year" expiration-date stickers...

And if someone sticks a sticker in the center of the plate, or the top right corner, when the instructions clearly say the left corner, then that should be grounds for lethal injection.

Maybe that's a bit overboard, but if they can't properly mount a sticker on a license plate, they're probably a mass murderer as well.

[1995hoo]

...the "month" and "year" expiration-date stickers...

And if someone sticks a sticker in the center of the plate, or the top right corner, when the instructions clearly say the left corner, then that should be grounds for lethal injection.

Maybe that's a bit overboard, but if they can't properly mount a sticker on a license plate, they're probably a mass murderer as well.

Plates here have two stickers each for the front and rear plates. The "month" sticker goes on the left and the "year" sticker goes on the right. Which corner (top or bottom) varies by plate design. I see all sorts of bizarre things, though. Some people put both "month" stickers on the rear plate and both "year" stickers on the front, or vice versa. Some people alternate the side for the "year" sticker each year (e.g., the plate might have "14" on the left and "15" on the right). Some people put the stickers directly below, or above, the words "month" and "year" on the plate as if those words are supposed to be explanatory captions (because cops clearly wouldn't understand what "DEC 15" means).

It seems to me it shouldn't be a big deal UNLESS you do something that makes it impossible for a cop viewing the plate to determine its expiration date–for example, alternating the side for the "year" sticker, such that the "month" sticker is covered, means you don't know whether the plate is valid until you run the plate number. (Similarly, putting both "month" stickers on the front and both "year" on the back, so you have "JUN JUN" and "15 15," should be a ticketable offense.) However, I do know someone who got a ticket in DC for "improper display of a license plate" when he had the stickers backwards on his Virginia plate–I don't remember the month and year, but using the current month, it would have said "15 MAR" instead of "MAR 15." I think that sort of ticket is obnoxious and unnecessary, but at the same time, it's a trivial matter to put the stickers on correctly in the first place.

One guy on the next block over from us simply has no "month" or "year" stickers on his plate at all. I'm not sure how he escapes getting ticketed.


I suppose this is now getting totally off-track from the trunk being taped shut.

[Brandon]

...the "month" and "year" expiration-date stickers...

And if someone sticks a sticker in the center of the plate, or the top right corner, when the instructions clearly say the left corner, then that should be grounds for lethal injection.

Maybe that's a bit overboard, but if they can't properly mount a sticker on a license plate, they're probably a mass murderer as well.

Plates here have two stickers each for the front and rear plates. The "month" sticker goes on the left and the "year" sticker goes on the right. Which corner (top or bottom) varies by plate design. I see all sorts of bizarre things, though.

Bizarre overkill.  Illinois may be archaic in having both front and rear plates, but we only have one sticker that goes on the rear plate only.  No one really cares so long as the sticker is visible.

[roadman]

Bizarre overkill.  Illinois may be archaic in having both front and rear plates, but we only have one sticker that goes on the rear plate only.  No one really cares so long as the sticker is visible.

After about ten years of issuing single plates, Massachusetts went back to issuing two plates for new registrations, but only issues a sticker for the rear plate.  The rationale behind this is to prevent the possibilty of a person using the front plate as a rear plate on another vehicle.

[J N Winkler]

I should probably have one for the front plate on my RX-7 because the car was not designed with a front plate in mind and the bracket they added is of a design that means if someone parallel-parks New York—style, the plate gets nicked and beat-up. The bracket is essentially just two small vertical pieces of metal to which the plate gets bolted.

I don't think I have ever had a car with wholly satisfactory provision for mounting a front license plate.  The 1986 Maxima is the only car we have had in this family that we bought new with a front bracket, probably because it was purchased at a border-town dealership and Oklahoma requires front plates (Kansas itself does not).  It would have supported a license plate mounted to it only at the top, which is a recipe for a lengthwise bend in service.

In my opinion, a bracket for a front license plate should support the entire area of the plate in a flat plane, allowing it to be mounted securely without a frame or any other device for increasing rigidity.

[1995hoo]

...the "month" and "year" expiration-date stickers...

And if someone sticks a sticker in the center of the plate, or the top right corner, when the instructions clearly say the left corner, then that should be grounds for lethal injection.

Maybe that's a bit overboard, but if they can't properly mount a sticker on a license plate, they're probably a mass murderer as well.

Plates here have two stickers each for the front and rear plates. The "month" sticker goes on the left and the "year" sticker goes on the right. Which corner (top or bottom) varies by plate design. I see all sorts of bizarre things, though.

Bizarre overkill.  Illinois may be archaic in having both front and rear plates, but we only have one sticker that goes on the rear plate only.  No one really cares so long as the sticker is visible.

A couple of years ago there was a study of going just to two decals (a month decal and a year decal on the rear plate only) and it was determined it would save the state a maximum of about $110,000 a year, bearing in mind most times when they issue decals it's for a plate renewal, so they only have to issue two (new "year" decals because the month remains the same). They decided it wasn't enough of a cost savings to bother.

Seems the other reasons they didn't want to change were (1) if a car is parked backwards against a wall, it'd be hard for a cop or meter maid to tell whether the plate is expired; (2) unless you reissue all new plates (which defeats any cost savings), people would have to remove the existing stickers from the front plate, which would be messy and would cause confusion if people failed to remove them (and I'm sure some people would still put them on the wrong plate).

The stickers are an utterly minor nuisance, trivial in the scheme of things. Having to have two plates is more of an annoyance.