I was driving across I-80 in Wyoming a couple of days ago at the same time a WYDOT crew was covering the previous FHWA E(m) "Denver" with "Fort Collins" in Clearview. Here is Google Street View (https://goo.gl/maps/qvPAa) of the assembly pre-modification.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7750/16729019943_1f59dd5467_o.jpg)
That's crazy unless someone nuked Denver a la "Jericho"...LOL!
Rick
That's similar to Orange County CA removing all Los Angeles controls and replacing them with Santa Ana on I-5 northbound between the San Diego County line and Santa Ana.
The better approach would be two controls: Fort Collins and Denver
Quote from: mrsman on May 03, 2015, 08:42:17 AM
That's similar to Orange County CA removing all Los Angeles controls and replacing them with Santa Ana on I-5 northbound between the San Diego County line and Santa Ana.
The better approach would be two controls: Fort Collins and Denver
Bingo!
Rick
They're just getting even because the control for NB I-25 at Denver is Fort Collins. As you would expect - Fort Collins is in Colorado, and is larger than Cheyenne.
Now I wonder if Cheyenne is still the control city on I-80 eastbound in SLC?
Rick
That matches what I-25 south has shown for years (I took the below photo in 2009)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.corcohighways.org%2Fhighways%2Fwy%2F25%2F80cheyenneto80%2F2.JPG&hash=1955de55f97734d9270a408daa1179a13c9882ad)
What I'm curious about is if I-80 east still uses Omaha, or if they changed that to SidneY
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.corcohighways.org%2Fhighways%2Fwy%2F80%2F80cheyenneto25%2F2.JPG&hash=4d532b228c7d18531399f1667c7b1d48ddc60057)
Quote from: nexus73 on May 03, 2015, 06:23:02 PM
Now I wonder if Cheyenne is still the control city on I-80 eastbound in SLC?
As far as I recall from driving through there about a week ago, the control cities at the I-15/I-80 split were Las Vegas and Cheyenne, respectively (which is what Street View still shows).
Quote from: corco on May 03, 2015, 06:25:00 PM
What I'm curious about is if I-80 east still uses Omaha, or if they changed that to SidneY
I can't say definitively, but I think I would have recalled an odd control city like "SidneY" –and I don't remember seeing that last week. I'll assume it was still Omaha.
Thanks for the reply Brian!
Rick
Quote from: nexus73 on May 03, 2015, 06:23:02 PM
Now I wonder if Cheyenne is still the control city on I-80 eastbound in SLC?
Controls in Salt Lake remain: Reno, Las Vegas, Cheyenne and Ogden.
I think it's interesting that they downgraded from the closest large city to a smaller town along the way that I-25 barely brushes to the east of.
I guess it begs the question, whither the two-control-city sign? They seem so sensible — put a short/mid-range and long-range destination on the signs. Was there some research that found this to be confusing or otherwise wasteful? Feels like I don't see them too often anymore.
Quote from: NickCPDX on May 04, 2015, 07:42:19 PM
I guess it begs the question, whither the two-control-city sign? They seem so sensible — put a short/mid-range and long-range destination on the signs. Was there some research that found this to be confusing or otherwise wasteful? Feels like I don't see them too often anymore.
Anyone can step in and correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that the practice of signing two control cities (local/regional) was ever endorsed–or even condoned, for that matter–by the FHWA. If anything, the MUTCD's guidelines on amount of legend:
Quote from: MUTCDWhere two or three signs are placed on the same supports, destinations or names should be limited to one per sign, or to a total of three in the display.
...would seem to discourage the practice.
Quote from: NickCPDX on May 04, 2015, 07:42:19 PM
I guess it begs the question, whither the two-control-city sign? They seem so sensible – put a short/mid-range and long-range destination on the signs. Was there some research that found this to be confusing or otherwise wasteful? Feels like I don't see them too often anymore.
Bingo! "Other Desert Cities" indeed...LOL! PHOENIX works for me! I know where the major cities are but the podunk towns not so much.
Rick
Quote from: briantroutman on May 02, 2015, 10:27:43 PM
I was driving across I-80 in Wyoming a couple of days ago at the same time a WYDOT crew was covering the previous FHWA E(m) "Denver" with "Fort Collins" in Clearview. Here is Google Street View (https://goo.gl/maps/qvPAa) of the assembly pre-modification.
Great picture, Brian! Thank you for sharing. I went through there last year heading north and encountered some changed signs, but didn't see the changes you showed here. Neat to see the crews making the sign replacement right when you passed through the area.
Quote from: Henry on May 04, 2015, 12:56:20 PM
I think it's interesting that they downgraded from the closest large city to a smaller town along the way that I-25 barely brushes to the east of.
I don't consider FoCo a small town. It used to be, but now it's three times the size of Cheyenne, and it's the 4th-largest city in Colorado. It's arguably the "capital" of the booming Northern Front Range, and in my opinion it totally makes sense to use it as a control city from Cheyenne.
Quote from: usends on May 05, 2015, 09:57:12 AM
Quote from: Henry on May 04, 2015, 12:56:20 PM
I think it's interesting that they downgraded from the closest large city to a smaller town along the way that I-25 barely brushes to the east of.
I don't consider FoCo a small town. It used to be, but now it's three times the size of Cheyenne, and it's the 4th-largest city in Colorado. It's arguably the "capital" of the booming Northern Front Range, and in my opinion it totally makes sense to use it as a control city from Cheyenne.
Is the signage consistent? Is Ft Collins used as a control city on all signage on I-25 north of Denver and south of Cheyenne until the highway reached Ft Collins city limits?
It would be confusing if I-25 southbound had a control of Denver from Cheyenne, but then switch to Ft Collins when crossing into Colorado and then back to Denver S of Ft Collins. If they decide to add Ft Collins as a control, then all the signs need to be changed on I-25 southbound (and connecting roads) from CHeyenne to FC and on I-25 northbound (and connecting roads) from Denver to FC.
I know Denver does use Fort Collins as the control city for I-25 heading north. It's been years since I've traveled the highway north of Denver so I can't recall mileage signs but the BGSs for I-25 in town, as well as I-270 at I-70 and C-470 (or whatever it's called) all use Fort Collins. I was actually surprised to see Cheyenne not using Fort Collins as noted here.
Quote from: tdindy88 on May 06, 2015, 09:59:36 PM
I know Denver does use Fort Collins as the control city for I-25 heading north. It's been years since I've traveled the highway north of Denver so I can't recall mileage signs but the BGSs for I-25 in town, as well as I-270 at I-70 and C-470 (or whatever it's called) all use Fort Collins. I was actually surprised to see Cheyenne not using Fort Collins as noted here.
I concur with this assessment ... I think it was the late 1990s or early 2000s when CDOT changed the control city from Cheyenne to Denver along I-25 north. I'm sure Milepost 61 will know for sure.
Quote from: mrsman on May 06, 2015, 09:43:52 PM
It would be confusing if I-25 southbound had a control of Denver from Cheyenne, but then switch to Ft Collins when crossing into Colorado and then back to Denver S of Ft Collins. If they decide to add Ft Collins as a control, then all the signs need to be changed on I-25 southbound (and connecting roads) from CHeyenne to FC and on I-25 northbound (and connecting roads) from Denver to FC.
Oh, you mean like how I-5 north shows a control city of Los Angeles in San Diego County, then becomes a control city of Santa Ana once in Orange County, then Los Angeles again after passing through Santa Ana?
Quote from: andy3175 on May 06, 2015, 11:17:17 PM
Quote from: mrsman on May 06, 2015, 09:43:52 PM
It would be confusing if I-25 southbound had a control of Denver from Cheyenne, but then switch to Ft Collins when crossing into Colorado and then back to Denver S of Ft Collins. If they decide to add Ft Collins as a control, then all the signs need to be changed on I-25 southbound (and connecting roads) from CHeyenne to FC and on I-25 northbound (and connecting roads) from Denver to FC.
Oh, you mean like how I-5 north shows a control city of Los Angeles in San Diego County, then becomes a control city of Santa Ana once in Orange County, then Los Angeles again after passing through Santa Ana?
Yes. That was a result of Dist. 12 of Caltrans (Orange County) deciding to promote Santa Ana, but not thinking through that it would be confusing if Dist. 11 of Caltrans (San Diego) did not also update its signs.
The first picture of this thread shows the replacement of Denver controls with Fort Collins. This would only be sensible if every sign on southbound I-25 between Cheyenne and Fort Collins (both states) actaully followed through with the replacement. Otherwise, they should put in two control cities (fort collins and denver) where appropriate.
I just drove I-80 east through Cheyenne today and Denver is still listed as the control city for I-25 south. Maybe the fact US 287 in Laramie has 3rd Street and Fort Collins listed as the control city would explain why there isn't a change on the sign going eastbound?
It was the mid-90s (or earlier) when the control city in Denver for I-25 North was changed from Cheyenne to Fort Collins. The overhead sign on Speer Blvd is I think the only sign left with the cover-up plate left from the change.
Just drove I-25 North into Wyoming today. While I wasn't able to get a picture of it, the overhead sign for I-80 West mounted on the College Ave overpass (Exit 7) now has Rock Springs as the control city. The actual exit sign at I-80 still shows Laramie however the ramp is closed for construction. I'll try and get a picture on my next trip through there ... I wonder if the actual exit is going to be changed to note Rock Springs as well. Southbound still shows Laramie on all signs.
That's extremely weird. Rock Springs has a smaller population than Laramie. I don't know the official guidelines for signage like this, but having Laramie signed seems far more useful than Rock Springs. The only thing possibly more logical would be Salt Lake City (if they were going for a metropolitan control city), but that's a stretch based upon distance.
That transition (from Laramie to Rock Springs) is the opposite of the changes in the other two directions (east and south). East I-80's old control city was Omaha, and that was changed to the much closer, but much smaller Sidney. Likewise, the Fort Collins for Denver change discussed above. Laramie is an important enough town that I truly can't understand why it would be replaced with Rock Springs.
It makes sense to use For Collins in the NB direction but in the SB I would still use Denver. Fort Collins vs Cheyenne is not the same thing as Fort Collins vs Denver.