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IL: I-270 Chain of Rocks Canal Bridges to be replaced

Started by Revive 755, December 02, 2009, 09:03:48 PM

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NE2

Quote from: kharvey10 on January 18, 2013, 10:00:23 PM
NE2 that one dates back to the early 1980s at best, maybe late 1970s at the earliest.  The I-43 concoction dated early 1970s and Wisconsin really wanted to number that I-57 at first.  The IDOT vs WisDOT thing has been going on at least 40 years.

Way to answer the question. What's wrong with the current routes of I-39 and I-43?
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".


Brandon

Quote from: NE2 on January 19, 2013, 03:35:01 AM
Quote from: kharvey10 on January 18, 2013, 10:00:23 PM
NE2 that one dates back to the early 1980s at best, maybe late 1970s at the earliest.  The I-43 concoction dated early 1970s and Wisconsin really wanted to number that I-57 at first.  The IDOT vs WisDOT thing has been going on at least 40 years.

Way to answer the question. What's wrong with the current routes of I-39 and I-43?

No one said anything about the routings being wrong, we're explaining what happened to make it so, if you'd have read the last few comments.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

NE2

What happened is that (supposedly) Illinois said they preferred I-39 on US 51. Well good for them. Complaining about it makes you an idiot, not them.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

Brandon

Quote from: NE2 on January 19, 2013, 08:36:20 AM
What happened is that (supposedly) Illinois said they preferred I-39 on US 51. Well good for them. Complaining about it makes you an idiot, not them.

Again, you missed the point.  I'm not complaining about anything.  All I did is tell you that they do not play nicely with other state DOTs.  IDOT went with I-39 even after WisDOT discussed I-43 with them.  Stop puting words in my text.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

NE2

So they rejected Wisconsin's I-43 proposal. Whoop-de-doo.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

Brandon

Quote from: NE2 on January 19, 2013, 09:25:43 AM
So they rejected Wisconsin's I-43 proposal. Whoop-de-doo.

Pardon me, Dan, but YAWN!
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

Alps

Quote from: Brandon on January 19, 2013, 09:07:16 AM
Quote from: NE2 on January 19, 2013, 08:36:20 AM
What happened is that (supposedly) Illinois said they preferred I-39 on US 51. Well good for them. Complaining about it makes you an idiot, not them.

Again, you missed the point.  I'm not complaining about anything.  All I did is tell you that they do not play nicely with other state DOTs.  IDOT went with I-39 even after WisDOT discussed I-43 with them.  Stop puting words in my text.
Brandon: IDOT did not play nicely with I-39.
NE2: I-39 makes more sense than I-43 anyway, so IDOT was right.
Me: Stop it. Go fight each other in the parking lot, buy each other a beer, and let it go.

Mamba205

Quote from: Brandon on January 15, 2013, 02:52:44 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on January 15, 2013, 12:54:56 PM
Why does everyone on this forum call Idot Idiot?  Do they suck at their jobs?  I don't live in Illinois so i have no idea. 

It is used often by roadgeeks and non-roadgeeks in Illinois as a shot at the foul-ups of the state DOT, IDOT.  The jokes usually are 'IDiOT", and that IDOT can't even spell "idiot" properly.  The foul-ups can be anything from a signage screw up to a failure to address a real infrastructure problem such as a bridge falling apart or capacity (incidentally, both of which I-270 has at the Chain of Rocks Canal Bridge).  I've heard it from municipal government officials when they're frustrated that IDOT under-designs roads consistently or drags their feet on fixing a problem.

Part of this frustration stems from the fact that IDOT tends to spend money on political projects instead of fixing real problems.  A case in point: IDOT widened I-55 to six lanes from Sherman to Lincoln (I-155) as a political favor before any other stretch of freeway outside Chicagoland was widened to six lanes.  This was done even though other freeways in the state (I-270, I-55/70, etc) needed the widening more.  Ever wonder why I-255 is six lanes around Metro East, and I-270 is not?  Political favors and a near-complete lack of wanting to cooperate with neighboring state DOTs (in this case, MoDOT).  That lack of cooperation pisses off the surrounding state DOTs such as WisDOT.  WisDOT wanted to extend I-43 south to Bloomington along US-51.  Makes sense, doesn't it?  IDOT told WisDOT to F-off and picked their own number instead.  That's why I said in the US-41 conversion thread that IDOT would drag their feet and balk at extending I-55 north even though that makes sense.

Makes me wonder what derisive terms are used for other state DOTs.

Yeah, it is very weird how I-55 becomes 6 lanes in a low-traffic area between Springfield and Lincoln, whereas I-270 from 255 to the 270/70/55 interchange in Troy is only 4 lanes. One thing I have noticed, however, is excluding commute times, that stretch of I-270 going through Glen Carbon receives quite little traffic...little enough to still be comfortable at only 4 lanes. 270 west of Route 3 is where traffic is constant throughout the day, and they need serious interchange redesigns badly.

Mamba205

#58
An interchange that is simply not safe is the Rt 159 interchange with I-55/70 in Collinsville. The ramp speed is 20 mph, and you cannot go much faster before you feel as if your car is going to flip. But you have to go faster, because a line of semi trailers going 80 mph will not, and often cannot, move over to let you merge. And the merge lane is so short that if you cannot make it over in 3 seconds, you become forced into the exit ramp. Meanwhile, just three miles away, IDOT is busy redesigning the Rt 162 interchange with I-55/70 in Troy...an interchange that was perfectly fine to begin with.

Mamba205

Quote from: kharvey10 on September 22, 2011, 11:27:34 PM
and IDiOT hasn't given a care since day 1.  It took IDiOT a very long time to cave into pressure from Alton in replacing the Clark Bridge back in the day.  The locals only needed 8 months after the new one opened to realize they got screwed.  At the same time, those same locals realized that IDiOT didn't give a care about the 270 corridor at all.  Since that infamous August night in 1994, IDiOT still hasn't given an effing care in the world and every time things go horribly wrong on 270 you can't get around Alton unless you know every back alley in town.

I was driving to work on 270 from Glen Carbon into Earth City, and there was a car stalled on the left shoulder just a few hundred feet before the Canal Bridge. I thought, if that car had stalled just two seconds later, we would be stuck. I simply cannot believe these bridges have no shoulders.

adt1982

That 159 ramp onto 55/70 is the worst.  Even when on 55/70 I make sure I'm in the left lane with my foot on the gas just to get through that without someone almost merging into me.

kharvey10

This past week, the flooding closed down the southbound 67 lanes just south of the Clark Bridge.  MoDOT closed both southbound lanes and had no intention in converting the higher-ground northbound lanes into 2-way traffic when water covered that roadway on Monday afternoon.  The following morning, Route 3 backs up from 270 all the way towards Wood River because of the screwed up ramp to westbound 270 thanks to construction, AND 270 backs up all the way to 255 because everyone from the Riverbend was forced to cross the river on 270.  The locals were PISSED OFF so much they gave MoDOT some serious heat via social media.  That afternoon, MoDOT does an about face and converts the northbound lanes of 67 to 2-way traffic, but still urged the locals to avoid the area anyway.

All this came following an month that saw two straight days of wrecks that shut down both eastbound lanes on the river bridge for no less than 2 hours on both incidents, another day that had multiple mainline lanes closed due to a truck fire in between the canal and river bridges, and an EF 3 tornado that nearly took an direct hit.
Quote from: Mamba205 on January 25, 2013, 07:25:54 PM

I was driving to work on 270 from Glen Carbon into Earth City, and there was a car stalled on the left shoulder just a few hundred feet before the Canal Bridge. I thought, if that car had stalled just two seconds later, we would be stuck. I simply cannot believe these bridges have no shoulders.

I have personally witnessed multiple stalls and wrecks on both the canal and river bridge in my lifetime and my sister has witnessed quite a few as well.  Its only going to be a matter of time before the "big wreck" will happen, given that the lighting is not working at all when its dark outside.

adt1982

IDOT brilliance continues.

They're going to be doing lane closures on the Clark Bridge for the next two weeks.  Expect significant delays at times, they say.

This is at the same time the work on the Canal Bridges is ongoing and the ramp from IL 3 to westbound 270 is closed.

How smart.

Brandon

Quote from: adt1982 on June 09, 2014, 08:00:21 AM
IDOT brilliance continues.

They're going to be doing lane closures on the Clark Bridge for the next two weeks.  Expect significant delays at times, they say.

This is at the same time the work on the Canal Bridges is ongoing and the ramp from IL 3 to westbound 270 is closed.

How smart.

Sounds like IDOT being IDiOT again.  Of course, this is the same DOT that decided to work on IL-47 through Yorkville at the same time at IL-71 through Oswego.  The IL-71 route is a truck detour (via IL-71 and US-34) for IL-47.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

Revive 755

The bridge situation for St. Louis will probably get worse though, since the MLK will be closing for work later this summer (project is one the June letting, see http://eplan.dot.il.gov/desenv/061314/76B03-251/PLANS/), the Eads has lane closures, the PSB has one WB lane closed, sometimes two, and I'm sure some new project will pop up for the JB/I-255 crossing, in addition to all of the other work on elsewhere on the I-255 corridor.

kharvey10

Since the I-70 bridge opened up, IDOT has gotten very bold with scheduling lane closures.  Apparently there is a conspiracy theory of getting more Illinois residents from Alton/Granite City/Wood River to fill up on the Illinois side of the river, so they naturally planned all the lane closures for both the Clark Bridge and I-270 at the same time.  My nephew has bragged about saving $3 per trip when he fills up in West Alton on the night he shoots pool at Riverbend Billards (right next to the Clark Bridge).

IDOT has finally gotten around to spilling the beans that the traffic will be switched over in the August-September time window.

MoDOT did the JB Bridge work earlier this winter, so don't expect a lot of closures there.  The rest of the 255 mainline, however, is a different story.

thenetwork

For those of you wondering what has become of the old I-270 bridge...It got blown up pretty good:



Approves: 

Brandon

^^ And there goes yet another wonderful metal monster to the replaced by a boring plate girder bridge.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

SteveG1988

I would have approved of a copy of the Jefferson Barracks Bridge, it looks like it would have been fairly easy to get one made, since....it is a cookie cutter design.
Roads Clinched

I55,I82,I84(E&W)I88(W),I87(N),I81,I64,I74(W),I72,I57,I24,I65,I59,I12,I71,I77,I76(E&W),I70,I79,I85,I86(W),I27,I16,I97,I96,I43,I41,

Rick Powell

#69
Quote from: Brandon on June 12, 2014, 05:39:49 PM

Sounds like IDOT being IDiOT again.  Of course, this is the same DOT that decided to work on IL-47 through Yorkville at the same time at IL-71 through Oswego.  The IL-71 route is a truck detour (via IL-71 and US-34) for IL-47.

The Kendall County work really didn't cause a problem the way it actually worked out in the real world.  The first year of construction on IL-71 was mostly off-road utility work and didn't affect any of the traffic staging.  IL-47 through Yorkville has about 2/3 of the 4-laning done and open to traffic now, with IL-71 traffic staging still being similar to conditions before construction.  And very little of the traffic would actually use all of the marked detour anyway, but would use US 34 to the county's Orchard Road bridge, and then IL 71 to the west, to bypass the under construction portion of IL-71 to the east of Orchard. 

Compared to the IL-47 project thru Huntley (which I drove a few times during the heaviest construction) the IL-47 Yorkville project has been much less hectic of a work zone.

I-39

Quote from: Brandon on January 15, 2013, 02:52:44 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on January 15, 2013, 12:54:56 PM
Why does everyone on this forum call Idot Idiot?  Do they suck at their jobs?  I don't live in Illinois so i have no idea. 

It is used often by roadgeeks and non-roadgeeks in Illinois as a shot at the foul-ups of the state DOT, IDOT.  The jokes usually are 'IDiOT", and that IDOT can't even spell "idiot" properly.  The foul-ups can be anything from a signage screw up to a failure to address a real infrastructure problem such as a bridge falling apart or capacity (incidentally, both of which I-270 has at the Chain of Rocks Canal Bridge).  I've heard it from municipal government officials when they're frustrated that IDOT under-designs roads consistently or drags their feet on fixing a problem.

Part of this frustration stems from the fact that IDOT tends to spend money on political projects instead of fixing real problems.  A case in point: IDOT widened I-55 to six lanes from Sherman to Lincoln (I-155) as a political favor before any other stretch of freeway outside Chicagoland was widened to six lanes.  This was done even though other freeways in the state (I-270, I-55/70, etc) needed the widening more.  Ever wonder why I-255 is six lanes around Metro East, and I-270 is not?  Political favors and a near-complete lack of wanting to cooperate with neighboring state DOTs (in this case, MoDOT).  That lack of cooperation pisses off the surrounding state DOTs such as WisDOT.  WisDOT wanted to extend I-43 south to Bloomington along US-51.  Makes sense, doesn't it?  IDOT told WisDOT to F-off and picked their own number instead.  That's why I said in the US-41 conversion thread that IDOT would drag their feet and balk at extending I-55 north even though that makes sense.

Makes me wonder what derisive terms are used for other state DOTs.

I couldn't agree more! Plus I'd like to add IDOT always goes the cheap way out in upgrading their corridors rather than building them properly (see for example, U.S 51 south of Bloomington-Normal), while our neighbors to the north (WisDOT) always build high quality highways on their major corridors (either full freeway or high-quality upgradable expressways). U.S Highways 41, 51, 53 and 151 are good examples of this.

kharvey10

The second implosion took place on Feb. 3, and it was botched:

https://corb270.wordpress.com/2015/02/04/phase-2-of-implosion-complete/

It caused a 12 mile traffic jam the ensuing evening peak for eastbound traffic while crews were forced to do emergency repairs, and caused an unplanned full closure the very next day when the weather was not favorable.

adt1982

They can't even get rid of things without making a mess.  Wow. 

kharvey10

The final implosion is set for Feb 19.  It was originally scheduled for yesterday but weather delayed it. 



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