AARoads Forum

Regional Boards => Great Lakes and Ohio Valley => Topic started by: ssummers72 on February 10, 2009, 09:43:31 AM

Title: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: ssummers72 on February 10, 2009, 09:43:31 AM
Here is an interesting article from Green Bay:
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090208/GPG0101/902080755/1207/GPG01 (http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20090208/GPG0101/902080755/1207/GPG01)
Copy of Article follows:

When U.S. 41 is reclassified as an interstate highway, some area leaders hope it will be renamed Interstate 55.


On Monday the Howard Village Board will look at a resolution supporting the reclassification to I-55, which runs from New Orleans to the south side of Chicago, connecting through Memphis, Tenn., and St. Louis.

"I-55 would give us tremendous lift in terms of economic development," said the Howard village administrator, Joshua Smith, who drafted the resolution. "It's really an additional economic development tool for the Green Bay area."

The Brown County municipal issues committee – a group of administrators who meet monthly with Advance, the economic development arm of the Green Bay Chamber of Commerce – took a look at the resolution on Thursday, Smith said.

The idea for a joint resolution arose from worries that national transportation officials could choose to classify U.S. 41 as I-243 – making it a spur of I-43, which is located entirely in Wisconsin, said Fred Monique, vice president of economic development for Advance.

"We're thinking it's much better for both commercial and tourism marketing if we could have it reclassified to I-55," Monique said.

Ashwaubenon President Jerry Menne said he plans to take the resolution to the Village Board as soon as possible.

"I think it's a good idea, and it will encourage people to recognize Northeastern Wisconsin and bring people up here," Menne said.

Once Brown County communities approve the resolution, Monique said more regional support would be built before contacting the transportation officials in charge of reclassifying the highway.

In 2005, federal legislation authorized funding to Wisconsin to upgrade U.S. 41 between Milwaukee and Green Bay to meet interstate standards. That's the impetus for the planned expansion of U.S. 41 in coming years.

Most interstate highways are designated by one- or two-digit numbers: East to west routes carry even numbers that increase from south to north, and north to south routes carry odd numbers that increase from west to east.

Three-digit highway numbers such as I-794 in Milwaukee represent bypasses attached to a primary interstate highway, according to the state Department of Transportation.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: DAL764 on February 10, 2009, 10:09:12 AM
I-55? Aside from it being completely out of place between I-39 and I-43, how would those folks want to get I-55 into WI, co-sign it with I-94 (and/or perhaps I-294 as well) out of Chicago? Great idea, co-sign around 150 miles of existing interstate just so a 150-mile US highway can be resigned as an interstate. I-243 makes a whole lot more sense.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: DrZoidberg on February 10, 2009, 10:24:27 AM
I agree with DAL, I-55 wouldn't make any sense, and there is no need to multiplex it with I-94 for that distance.  I-41, or even a 3-di I-243, would make more sense.  I'm curious what will become of US 41 in Wisconsin.  Could we see a US 41/I 41 multiplex?  WISDOT doesn't like to duplicate numbers....they already encountered this when WI 39 came within 25 miles of I 39.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Revive 755 on February 10, 2009, 02:34:12 PM
While I think I-55 should somehow extend beyond Chicago, I don't think the US 41 corridor in Wisconsin is the best way.  That said, consigning I-55 with I-94 would make it easier to eventually shift I-94 onto any future Chicago-Madison freeway grade facility.

I-43 and I-39 are already out of place, and will probably be even more so should the Avenue of the Saints, US 67 or, US 63 corridors get an 2di designation some decade.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Voyager on February 10, 2009, 03:09:43 PM
No! US 41 is one of my favorite US highways!
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FLRoads on February 10, 2009, 04:18:52 PM
...and mine.  Why must we continue to just extend existing numbers instead of creating new ones??

And why does US 41 need to be classified as an interstate anyway once its fully upgraded?  We have plenty of US highways that are interstate grade but not designated as such.  I say leave it be.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mukade on February 10, 2009, 07:19:53 PM
Not to rehash an old argument carried on in another forum, my opinion was that this improved road in Wisconsin should be an extension of I-65, I-57, or I-55. That is much more consistent with the original intent of the Interstate Highway System than creating a new short, disjointed route less than 100 miles away from where three other north-south routes terminate.

I suggested I-65 first because it seems like a more logical extension of 57 or 65, but 65 is a more important route of those two. Further, I would guess more people from Wisconsin head south toward Florida than Louisiana or Texas so again 57 or 65 seem more logical than I-55. An I-55 extension would look a little more disjointed and would have a poor Interstate to Interstate connection in Chicago unless it followed I-355 north of I-55 (and I-355 were extended northward). Nevertheless, the new road being an extension of I-55, I-57, or I-65 makes more sense to me than I-41.

As for it being US 41, I don't care for that. Down in Chicago, US 41 is a surface street. In places, it is two lanes, but is mainly very slow. A US number does not signify anything about the capacity or speed of a route. It is just an arbitrary designation.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on February 11, 2009, 01:56:05 PM
Quote from: flaroadgeek on February 10, 2009, 04:18:52 PM
...and mine.  Why must we continue to just extend existing numbers instead of creating new ones??

And why does US 41 need to be classified as an interstate anyway once its fully upgraded?  We have plenty of US highways that are interstate grade but not designated as such.  I say leave it be.
One could have made the same argument about US 51 too  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Scott5114 on February 27, 2009, 01:22:40 AM
We need to stop telling everyone about the difference between 2dis and 3dis. Dumb marketing jockeys appear to have found out about it and want to turn everything into a 2di.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: corco on February 27, 2009, 11:37:49 PM
I'm totally up for renumbering I-43 north of Milwaukee as an extension of I-55 or I-65, but the US-41 freeway corridor is just not long enough to be a full fledged 2di

If it were me, I'd try to get the Tri-State (I-294) north of its current junction with I-55, renumber the rest of I-55 into Chicago as I-555, run I-55 up the Tri-State and then have it concurrent with I-94 to Milwaukee where it would then take over I-43. The old I-43 from Beloit to Milwaukee could become I-139 or something (that number is up for debate). Then number the US-41 freeway corridor as I-255

Nobody in Chicago cares about freeway numbers anyway so confusion would be minimized
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: DrZoidberg on February 28, 2009, 12:09:58 AM
Interesting idea, corco.  I agree that the US 41 freeway would be better off as a 3 di. 

I-139....I like that one! :)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: corco on February 28, 2009, 12:57:37 AM
Under that plan I could even advocate putting the mainline I-55 on the US-41 corridor and putting I-255 on existing I-43. There's some value to giving Appleton a 2di designation, and I think it could benefit from one over Manitowoc/Sheboygan, but the solution is not to have both I-55 and I-43, or I-41 and I-43
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Voyager on February 28, 2009, 03:56:24 PM
Why is this stickied?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on February 28, 2009, 07:13:18 PM
Quote from: voyager on February 28, 2009, 03:56:24 PM
Why is this stickied?
I wanted to ask the same question - but I didn't want to step on any toes. :-/ :paranoid:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: njroadhorse on March 01, 2009, 11:13:51 AM
I personally think it should be I-41 because then Appleton still gets its 2di route, and we won't have another ridiculously long 3di. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Terry Shea on March 03, 2009, 08:15:35 PM
Quote from: corco on February 27, 2009, 11:37:49 PM
I'm totally up for renumbering I-43 north of Milwaukee as an extension of I-55 or I-65, but the US-41 freeway corridor is just not long enough to be a full fledged 2di

If it were me, I'd try to get the Tri-State (I-294) north of its current junction with I-55, renumber the rest of I-55 into Chicago as I-555, run I-55 up the Tri-State and then have it concurrent with I-94 to Milwaukee where it would then take over I-43. The old I-43 from Beloit to Milwaukee could become I-139 or something (that number is up for debate). Then number the US-41 freeway corridor as I-255

Nobody in Chicago cares about freeway numbers anyway so confusion would be minimized
Uh, way to speak for everyone in Illinois.  Come on now, why would you want to inconvenience and confuse a good portion of the people of Illinois and the people who travel through Illinois to get a 2-digit Interstate # that makes absolutely no sense for the region?  Furthermore, and maybe I'm being a bit naive here marketing wise, but how would giving a freeway a 2-digit Interstate # bring even $1 of economic development to the area?  I guess I could see where a new Interstate running between 2 major metropolitan areas could create somewhat of an economic boom for towns along the way, but I don't see where anyone is going to travel to Green Bay or slightly north of there just because just because the freeway has been given a major 2-digit Interstate designation instead of a minor 2-digit, a 3-digit, or remains with a US highway designation.  Meanwhile, any such plan would cost the state of Illinois a lot of money in re-signing their routes and updating various maps.  And the same could be said for Indiana in the case of I-65.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: DrZoidberg on March 04, 2009, 11:58:09 PM
I think the logic behind giving it a "major" 2 di designation would be NAFTA traffic more than anything.  The driver could drive the same route from the Gulf of Mexico to Lake Superior.  Of course, that's just a theory as to why a major 2 di could be beneficial.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on March 07, 2009, 10:35:58 PM
well the Lake Buttes de Mortes causeway and several areas south of that got bumped to starting this year thanks to Obama's stimulus.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Terry Shea on March 08, 2009, 03:53:17 AM
Quote from: DrZoidberg on March 04, 2009, 11:58:09 PM
I think the logic behind giving it a "major" 2 di designation would be NAFTA traffic more than anything.  The driver could drive the same route from the Gulf of Mexico to Lake Superior.  Of course, that's just a theory as to why a major 2 di could be beneficial.
Except for the fact that the future NAFTA Highway, I-69, doesn't go anywhere near Wisconsin or Lake Superior, and the freeway in question (US 41) won't get anywhere near the Canadian  border.  So I still don't see where any additional traffic is going to travel to northern Wisconsin regardless of what the highway number is.  IMO, people who want to visit northern Wisconsin will take the route no matter what the number is and people who otherwise wouldn't visit northern Wisconsin aren't going to do so just because it has a major 2-digit Interstate #.  I mean does anyone actually think about visiting a certain area based on whether it has a major 2-digit Interstate passing through it or not?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Scott5114 on March 16, 2009, 01:21:26 AM
Quote from: Terry Shea on March 08, 2009, 03:53:17 AM
IMO, people who want to visit northern Wisconsin will take the route no matter what the number is and people who otherwise wouldn't visit northern Wisconsin aren't going to do so just because it has a major 2-digit Interstate #.  I mean does anyone actually think about visiting a certain area based on whether it has a major 2-digit Interstate passing through it or not?

I would wager a guess that quite a few of the people on this forum would.  :)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mukade on March 16, 2009, 07:34:38 PM
I don't recall anyone making an argument that more people would use an Interstate based on the number. The point was that the Interstate numbering system was based on having long routes with fewer numbers, not having short spurs everywhere. For example, look at I-75 north of Detroit and in Tennessee where highways that could have ended instead jog around in the interest of having long north-south routes.

This proposed route in Wisconsin is less than 100 miles north of where three existing north-south routes terminate.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mightyace on March 16, 2009, 08:08:03 PM
One place that where it has been stated that more people would use a highway if it had an interstate number is the pending extension of I-376 in PA.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: 74/171FAN on March 16, 2009, 08:48:23 PM
Quotefrom mightyace: One place that where it has been stated that more people would use a highway if it had an interstate number is the pending extension of I-376 in PA.
The same has been stated for VA 895 as well.  Besides US 41 should be an unsigned 3di like I-595 in Maryland.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Terry Shea on March 29, 2009, 06:44:39 PM
Quote from: mukade on March 16, 2009, 07:34:38 PM
I don't recall anyone making an argument that more people would use an Interstate based on the number. The point was that the Interstate numbering system was based on having long routes with fewer numbers, not having short spurs everywhere. For example, look at I-75 north of Detroit and in Tennessee where highways that could have ended instead jog around in the interest of having long north-south routes.

This proposed route in Wisconsin is less than 100 miles north of where three existing north-south routes terminate.
Did you read the article in the first post?  Here's a few quotes from the article:

"I-55 would give us tremendous lift in terms of economic development," said the Howard village administrator, Joshua Smith, who drafted the resolution. "It's really an additional economic development tool for the Green Bay area."

"We're thinking it's much better for both commercial and tourism marketing if we could have it reclassified to I-55," Monique said.

"I think it's a good idea, and it will encourage people to recognize Northeastern Wisconsin and bring people up here," Menne said.

That's cheesehead thinking for ya.  :)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: leifvanderwall on March 30, 2009, 11:46:17 AM
After mulling it over, I think the proper interstate designation would be I-57. Why I-57? Because 57 can multiplex with I-94 and I-43 and can help get rid of I-894.  I would not change it to a  3di because it is just too long (like I-476 in PA). Also what I would do to is reroute US 41 onto Illinois 131, Wisc. 32, & Wisc. 57 from North Chicago to Green Bay.  I would have I-57 terminate where US 41 & US 141 separate north of Green Bay.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on March 30, 2009, 06:06:39 PM
Or we could create a second I-45... :sombrero:  :sombrero:   :sombrero:  :sombrero:  :sombrero:  :sombrero:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: flowmotion on April 05, 2009, 01:56:57 AM
I think it would be beneficial for the North-South portion of I-94 to be signed with an odd-numbered N-S interstate. Don't Chicagoans say things like "Go north on the Kennedy"?

But, I-57 would be a better choice because you could get the whole Dan Ryan.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: corco on April 05, 2009, 12:33:34 PM
We lived in Chicago for 9 years and my Dad had to commute downtown every day.

To this day when talking about free-er-expressways he refers to "The East-West" (now the Reagan), "The Stevenson," "The Eisenhower," "The Dan Ryan," and "The Skyway"

If you asked him the freeway numbers he has absolutely no idea,  but the names are so well signed you don't need them. When I was driving across the country a few years ago, I called my Dad as we were heading from Milwaukee to South Bend Indiana to ask what the best route to take at that time of day (roughly 6:00 AM) was to get across, and he said "Take the Tri-State to the Edens to the Kennedy to the Dan Ryan to the Skyway to the Toll Road." To confirm I said "So...just stay on I-90 the whole way?"  He said "I'm not sure, just follow those names"

When I got clear out to freaking South Bend Indiana the mother of the girl whose house we were eating breakfast at on our way to New Hampshire said "How's construction doing on the Dan Ryan?"


Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on April 06, 2009, 01:27:00 PM
corco brings a good point - other than I-57, Chicagoland doesn't use #s.  I would not be surprised if they don't refer to I-355 and I-90 (NW tollway) by their appropriate names yet (Veterans Memorial and Jane Addams)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Terry Shea on April 06, 2009, 02:21:58 PM
Quote from: Master son on April 06, 2009, 01:27:00 PM
corco brings a good point - other than I-57, Chicagoland doesn't use #s.  I would not be surprised if they don't refer to I-355 and I-90 (NW tollway) by their appropriate names yet (Veterans Memorial and Jane Addams)
And yet people passing through town have no idea what the freeway names mean.  I can tune into several different Chicago area AM radio stations and everytime I hear a traffic report I have no idea what highways or even sections of town they're referring to (unless they mention O'Hare or some equally obvious landmark).  They always refer to "the junction" but I'm not sure what this refers to.  I would assume that it's where I-90 and I-94 begin their multiplex but on which side of town?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on April 06, 2009, 02:27:49 PM
because of who they cater to - definitely not the tourists. :-D

and "the Junction" refers to the Edens/Kennedy interchange.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Terry Shea on April 06, 2009, 02:57:53 PM
Quote from: Master son on April 06, 2009, 02:27:49 PM
because of who they cater to - definitely not the tourists. :-D

and "the Junction" refers to the Edens/Kennedy interchange.
Uh, numbers please.   :banghead:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Revive 755 on April 06, 2009, 04:14:37 PM
Quotecorco brings a good point - other than I-57, Chicagoland doesn't use #s.  I would not be surprised if they don't refer to I-355 and I-90 (NW tollway) by their appropriate names yet (Veterans Memorial and Jane Addams)

Wait, when did I-355 change from North-South to Veterans Memorial?  I could have sworn the signs on I-80 just had "North Tollway" back in December, not some other name.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on April 06, 2009, 10:04:17 PM
November 2007, though the signs don't show it.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mahaasma on April 29, 2009, 09:34:05 AM
Here's another link on the whole I-55 idea.  Repeats some stuff. . .but another person arguing that I-55 would actually be beneficial.  .  .

http://www.marketplacemagazine.com/blogs/blog2.php/2009/02/13/what-s-in-a-number (http://www.marketplacemagazine.com/blogs/blog2.php/2009/02/13/what-s-in-a-number)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on April 29, 2009, 10:36:33 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi9dXDM4YCE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi9dXDM4YCE)

Michael G. Koerner posted this on the Great Lakes Roads yahoo group:

Very interesting intentions - flyovers at WIS 29 (over a diamond with roundabouts to connect Shawano Ave (WIS 29 East) and Dousman Street) with the upgrading of the at-grade of WIS 29 in the adjacent area, having roundabouts at every interchange  :crazy: and rebuilding the I-43 Interchange (which is now a trumpet)  It also expands the capacity to 6 lanes standard.

Can you imagine Green Bay Packer fan traffic backed up into the roundabouts? :eyebrow: (I've went to five games.  US 41, WIS 172, and all the streets around there get backed up before and after games.  And Lombardi Ave isn't the only US 41 interchange to get heavy incoming/outgoing traffic.)

Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Bryant5493 on April 29, 2009, 10:42:23 AM
^^ :cool: :cool:


Be well,

Bryant
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: leifvanderwall on May 06, 2009, 11:48:05 AM
In a response to a poster, I-94 from Milwaukee to Chicago should be I-57 or my I-1. I have I-41 expended all the way to Champaign now as a Chicago bypass. For more details , read my postings in Renumbering the Interstate system and Roads you would like to see in Fictional Highways. Leif Vanderwall
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: DrZoidberg on May 12, 2009, 10:12:29 AM
I looked through the postings, and don't recall seeing anything about this.

What if you route I-90 along I-94's current alignment from Chicago to Milwaukee and then from there to Madison?  It would (IMHO) make more sense to have Milwaukee served by an x0 versus Rockford.

I-94 could be routed along the Northwest Tollway (it would be a numbering violation for a while, until it meets I-90 again in Madison.) and then with I-39 back to it's original alignment.

I think the best idea for the US41 upgrade would still be I-41.  Just my opinion.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Big Dave on May 25, 2009, 07:44:53 PM
Let's let sleeping dogs lie and leave US 41 as US 41.  It's NOT going to bring more people to Green Bay or the Fox Valley; everyone who is going to go there already knows how to get there.  Hwy 41 already one of the busiest highway corridors in the state especially on a Friday going northbound or a Sunday going southbound, so it's obvious that it is being used enough without a blue and red shield.  The powers that be in the Green Bay area are just a little jealous that Wausau and Point pulled the wool over the eyes of the Feds with the whole I-39 thing.  Besides, the only think is which 41 is Interstate standard in in Green Bay is traffic jams. 
Title: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: triplemultiplex on December 03, 2010, 06:57:36 PM
With all the ongoing construction and a forthcoming interstate designation, it's high time we had a thread for US 41 and it's upgrades in Wisconsin.
WisDOT's website: http://us41wisconsin.gov/ (http://us41wisconsin.gov/)

I see the upgrades through Oshkosh south of US 45 on a fairly regular basis.  2010 saw a lot of progress.
The new earthworks for the Lake Butte des Morts causeway are in.
Overpasses for Snell Rd, Butte des Morts Dr, Witzel Ave and CTH K were completed.
Shoulders have been paved out on the SB lanes between WI 21 and south of WI 26 so all traffic can be shifted into the SB lanes while the NB lanes are reconstructed next year.
Earthworks for the new free-flow interchange with US 45 are in on the west side of the interchange.  This includes completion of the bridge that will carry NB 45 -> SB 41 traffic over SB 45 -> SB 41.  Additionally, temporary bypass lanes for US 41 that will allow for the removal of existing bridges and earthworks are ready to go for the start of the 2011 construction season.
Haven't been past it recently, but stuff has been going down at the WI 76 interchange as well.

Meanwhile, the Green Bay upgrades have only just begun.  Only the Schnuering Rd interchange saw significant work this year.
This part of the project will see the rebuild of one system interchange (I-43) and the construction of another(WI 29).

On to the interstate chapter of US 41.
As we're all well aware, that transportation bill from 2006 provided for an interstate designation for US 41 between Milwaukee and Green Bay.  These big projects in Oshkosh and Green Bay will definitely make the "urban" sections of US 41 through the Fox Valley/Cities interstate worthy.  I feel we should document which stretches of US 41 are interstate-ready and which ones still need a median barrier or something.
I drive the Milwaukee - Oshkosh segment often enough to know what's what though there.  The corridor is good to go south of the US 41/45 split in Richfield (could use a new coat of blacktop, though  ;-) ).  US 41 is now interstate standard throughout Fond du Lac County with the completion of an interchange reconstruction in that county's namesake city.  We still need a few miles of cable barrier in Washington County and I'd really like to see the interchange with WI 144 modernized.  The folded diamond configuration SB is crappy and could easily be replaced with a conventional diamond without any new R/W.

The new interstate will doubtlessly benefit from the billion+ dollar project that will come out of the Zoo Interchange Study.  That will rebuild and expand everything south of Burleigh Ave.
I can't recall if the new interstate will end at I-43 or at the 41/141 split in Abrams.  If it's up to me, I'd say Abrams.

Now for the number debate.
The 06 transportation bill made reference to I-41.  This fits the grid as it exists perfectly, but of course, smacks historical precedent in the face with its identical concurrency with US 41.  As a result, many in our roadgeek community support the northern extension of a Chicagoland interstate like 55 or especially 57 in lieu of 41.
My own view of the situation reflects what some may consider a disrespect for the US Highway System.  I see US highways as a secondary numbering system that, in many cases, unnecessarily clutters our maps with long multiplexes and an undeserved importance for what amounts to a frontage road.  As such, I feel the interstate system should be dictating to the US highway system and not the reverse.  So in my opinion, we use I-41 and bend US 41 to accommodate it.  Whether that involves a long concurrency, a secret concurrency like I-94 and US 52 in Minnesota, or, ooh god forbid, a discontinuation, so be it.
I find it interesting, though, that the only reason this is an issue is because the United States is way wider than it is tall.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: SSOWorld on December 20, 2010, 09:53:29 AM
They also have to rework the WI 441/US 10 interchange in Menasha - it's missing several transitions (US 10 E to US 41 N is a key one.)
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: mukade on December 20, 2010, 03:37:12 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on December 03, 2010, 06:57:36 PM
Now for the number debate. The 06 transportation bill made reference to I-41.  This fits the grid as it exists perfectly...

Well, the problem is that existing I-39 and I-43 don't fit the grid. I-39 should have been I-53 or I-51, but different numbers were chosen so as to not have the numbering confusion with US highways. Adding yet another number will set in concrete this poor decision.

Also, looking at the original Interstate plan, there were few, if any stubs like I-41 would be. Going into greater Chicago are three north-south Interstate highways that have their northern terminus there (I-55, I-57, and I-65). Any of those three could be extended north. Extending any of these would have the benefit of giving the truly north-south route from Milwaukee to Chicago a north-south designation. The other thing to look at how to eliminate or minimize cost for interchanges where the existing routes would be diverted/extended - no one has the money to modify big freeway to freeway interchanges (such as I-294/I-55, for example). On that basis, only I-57 and I-65 designations make sense. If you go by the logic of extending an I-x5 major route, I-55 and I-65 make sense. If you want the most direct extension, I-57 makes the most sense. I assume the very best number would be the extending the route that most travellers in Wisconsin going south of Chicago ultimately take, but how could you really know that? To me, any of those three would be far better than I-41.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: english si on December 20, 2010, 03:51:10 PM
Quote from: mukade on December 20, 2010, 03:37:12 PMWell, the problem is that existing I-39 and I-43 don't fit the grid.
How do they not?
QuoteAlso, looking at the original Interstate plan, there were few, if any stubs like I-41 would be.
I-41 won't be a stub?
QuoteGoing into greater Chicago are three north-south Interstate highways that have their northern terminus there (I-55, I-57, and I-65). Any of those three could be extended north.
At great cost of resigning a lot of routes. If you are so against I-41, because of US41, then why not I-47 or I-53 rather than doing masses of renumbering?
QuoteExtending any of these would have the benefit of giving the truly north-south route from Milwaukee to Chicago a north-south designation.
Which shows that the real problem was I-92 not being created, and the N-S road between Chicago and Millaukee not being a N-S number.
QuoteTo me, any of those three would be far better than I-41.
I-41 is the perfect number, given the current road network and means that you don't have to change the route number.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: mukade on December 20, 2010, 05:41:29 PM
Quote from: english si on December 20, 2010, 03:51:10 PM
Quote from: mukade on December 20, 2010, 03:37:12 PMWell, the problem is that existing I-39 and I-43 don't fit the grid.
How do they not?
I thought I explained it, but simply look at a map. I-35, which actually veers east at its north end, goes through Des Moines. I-45 goes from Galveston to Dallas. I-55 goes from New Orleans to Chicago. I-57 and I-65 end in Chicago. So why are I-39 and I-43, two relatively new highways designated the way they are? They don't fit there.

Quote from: english si on December 20, 2010, 03:51:10 PM
QuoteAlso, looking at the original Interstate plan, there were few, if any stubs like I-41 would be.
I-41 won't be a stub?
A highway going from Milwaukee to Green Bay won't be a stub? Look at I-35 in KC: it could have ended there and the highway north to Des Moines could have been I-39, for example. I-75 could have ended in Detroit or Port Huron, but rather, the original design favored long routes, not a myriad of short stubby ones.

Quote from: english si on December 20, 2010, 03:51:10 PM
QuoteGoing into greater Chicago are three north-south Interstate highways that have their northern terminus there (I-55, I-57, and I-65). Any of those three could be extended north.
At great cost of resigning a lot of routes.
I stated a number should be chosen where minimal cost (only signing) would be required. Placing new shields is not too expensive.

QuoteIf you are so against I-41, because of US41, then why not I-47 or I-53 rather than doing masses of renumbering?
I think you misunderstand. This is not about renumbering existing routes. I-39 and I-43 decisions are water under the bridge. It is about selecting the best number for a new Interstate highway. I don't think I-41 is silly like I-99, for example, just that other numbers are better and are more in keeping with the original numbering plan. I-39 (and I-43) in close proximity to I-65 shows bad numbering as does I-29 and I-49 lining up in KC. I-41 being far east of proposed I-49 is similarly, a bad numbering decision, IMO.

QuoteWhich shows that the real problem was I-92 not being created...
Absolutely agree. I-92 was in the original plan. Unlike the situation with the US 41 Interstate in Wisconsin, the two parts of I-94 don't line up and really don't make sense.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: Revive 755 on December 20, 2010, 05:59:47 PM
Quote from: mukade on December 20, 2010, 05:41:29 PM
Absolutely agree. I-92 was in the original plan. Unlike the situation with the US 41 Interstate in Wisconsin, the two parts of I-94 don't line up and really don't make sense.

Which numbering plan?  The ones I can find online still have I-94 going down through Chicago, but then have it going up and replacing I-196 and I-96.
http://www.ajfroggie.com/roads/yellowbook/numbering-1957.jpg (http://www.ajfroggie.com/roads/yellowbook/numbering-1957.jpg)

Quote from: mukadeno one has the money to modify big freeway to freeway interchanges (such as I-294/I-55, for example).

The Illinois Toll Authority seems to be looking at new big projects right now, so they could probably handle a redesign of the I-55/I-294 interchange (which could probably use a redesign without any numbering changes).
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: SEWIGuy on December 20, 2010, 06:01:05 PM
Well, this strikes at the heart of the necessity of a grid in the first place.  Honestly, I doubt most people fully understand the grid system as it stands, and in an era of GPS systems and Mapquest, one has to question how relevant it is.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: english si on December 20, 2010, 06:52:11 PM
Quote from: mukade on December 20, 2010, 05:41:29 PMI think you misunderstand. This is not about renumbering existing routes. I-39 and I-43 decisions are water under the bridge. It is about selecting the best number for a new Interstate highway. I don't think I-41 is silly like I-99, for example, just that other numbers are better and are more in keeping with the original numbering plan. I-39 (and I-43) in close proximity to I-65 shows bad numbering as does I-29 and I-49 lining up in KC. I-41 being far east of proposed I-49 is similarly, a bad numbering decision, IMO.
I think you misunderstood me here - if you are against I-41, why extend an Interstate to (which is renumbering existing highways) from Chicago to Milwaukee to then use. Why not call it I-47 or I-53 (I realise that's taken) or something to give it an interstate number that doesn't cause the conflict. Of course, you'd screw up the grid and I-43, making it further east than a higher number.

Of course, in my mind making it I-41 would be the simplest renumbering, would fit the existing grid easiest and having US41 and I-41 together wouldn't be a problem and pretty much everything else will make it worse. Effectively treat it as an Interstate section of route 41.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: NE2 on December 20, 2010, 06:54:31 PM
Go British and make it US 41(I) :)
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: Brandon on December 20, 2010, 07:23:19 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on December 20, 2010, 05:59:47 PM
Quote from: mukadeno one has the money to modify big freeway to freeway interchanges (such as I-294/I-55, for example).

The Illinois Toll Authority seems to be looking at new big projects right now, so they could probably handle a redesign of the I-55/I-294 interchange (which could probably use a redesign without any numbering changes).

It needs it, badly, IMHO.  A very outdated trumpet for the amount of traffic it carries; too close to the County Line Rd interchange (Exit 276); missing movements (I-55 Sbd to I-294 Sbd).

My idea:
1. Make the County Line Rd interchange a parclo facing away from the I-294 interchange - remove the ramps on the east side of the interchange.
2. High capacity ramps from Nbd I-55 to Nbd I-294 and Sbd I-294 to Sbd I-55.
3. Add in the missing movement (see above).
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: triplemultiplex on December 21, 2010, 11:55:03 AM
In retrospect, it would've been nice to do I-92 between Chicagoland and Port Huron, bring 55 up all the way to Green Bay and end 94 in Milwaukee in the original plan.  I-39 would be I-47 to keep it different from US 51. Then we would now be discussing the addition of an I-53 for a Beloit-Milwaukee-Fox Cities interstate.  So yeah, in this universe, WI 15 would still exist as it did prior to the extension of I-43 to Beloit.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: mgk920 on December 21, 2010, 04:04:21 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on December 21, 2010, 11:55:03 AM
In retrospect, it would've been nice to do I-92 between Chicagoland and Port Huron, bring 55 up all the way to Green Bay and end 94 in Milwaukee in the original plan.  I-39 would be I-47 to keep it different from US 51. Then we would now be discussing the addition of an I-53 for a Beloit-Milwaukee-Fox Cities interstate.  So yeah, in this universe, WI 15 would still exist as it did prior to the extension of I-43 to Beloit.

What is now I-43 was originally planned to be 'I-57' and supplant WI 57 between Milwaukee and Green Bay.  If you note the public trail along WI 57 between New Holstein and Kiel, WI, it was built on already-owned WisDOT ROW - existing WI 57 there is the northbound side of the never-built 'I-57' and even though it snakes through cornfields, the trail was built on the southbound side.

Mike
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: mukade on December 21, 2010, 06:14:13 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on December 20, 2010, 05:59:47 PM
Quote from: mukade on December 20, 2010, 05:41:29 PM
Absolutely agree. I-92 was in the original plan. Unlike the situation with the US 41 Interstate in Wisconsin, the two parts of I-94 don't line up and really don't make sense.
Which numbering plan?  The ones I can find online still have I-94 going down through Chicago, but then have it going up and replacing I-196 and I-96.
http://www.ajfroggie.com/roads/yellowbook/numbering-1957.jpg (http://www.ajfroggie.com/roads/yellowbook/numbering-1957.jpg)

Quote from: mukadeno one has the money to modify big freeway to freeway interchanges (such as I-294/I-55, for example).

The Illinois Toll Authority seems to be looking at new big projects right now, so they could probably handle a redesign of the I-55/I-294 interchange (which could probably use a redesign without any numbering changes).

The URL you show displays an error message. The draft Interstate numbering map that used to appear in Stephen Summers' old web site showed I-92 from Port Huron to Chicago. I-94 went from Milwaukee to Montana.

ISTHA may have money, but how are they getting it? Are they selling more bonds? Are they getting it from fining people $20-$50 per supposed "violation"? I think their history shows they are yet another corrupt Illinois governmental agency, but it might be that they are simply inept.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: mightyace on December 21, 2010, 06:54:31 PM
Quote from: mukade on December 21, 2010, 06:14:13 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on December 20, 2010, 05:59:47 PM
http://www.ajfroggie.com/roads/yellowbook/numbering-1957.jpg (http://www.ajfroggie.com/roads/yellowbook/numbering-1957.jpg)

The URL you show displays an error message. The draft Interstate numbering map that used to appear in Stephen Summers' old web site showed I-92 from Port Huron to Chicago. I-94 went from Milwaukee to Montana.

You have to cut and paste that link into a browser window/tab for it to work right.

Froggies map has both I-92 and I-94 starting in Detroit.  I-94 follows current I-96 and I-196 while I-92 follows current I-94.  As you see I-94 leaving Milwaukee, I assume it's continuous through Chicago.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: hobsini2 on February 16, 2011, 03:44:50 PM
I see no problem in having US 41 and I-41 exist in the same area.  You could even revive the old Business 41s in Fond du Lac, Oshkosh, and Appleton as US 41.  WI 175, which was at one point US 41, could also be US 41 again.
I would go even further and extend I-41 south into Chicago, follow IL 394 (always hated that one) and continue going south toward Terre Haute, Vincennes, Evansville, Hopkinsville, and Florence AL and end it in Pensacola FL.  This is for 2 reasons.  First, a new Hurricane relief route.  Second, I-x1 is SUPPOSED to be LONG.  I know it violates the precious grid (sarcasm) but it makes sense!  i would rather have a route number that makes sense despite violating the grid.  Proposed I-3 i think is a dumb number to use but they signed it into law (should be a Southern I-79).
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: SEWIGuy on February 25, 2011, 10:14:54 AM
I think WIDOT would rather decommission WI-175 than turn it back into a USH.  It really isn't worthy of a state highway designation right now.  I would simply have an unsigned duplex.  US-41 disappears at the WI/IL state line and reappears at the northern end of I-41.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: agentsteel53 on February 25, 2011, 11:18:48 AM
why does US-41 need an interstate shield again?  I thought US-74 was bad enough.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: mgk920 on February 25, 2011, 11:22:23 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 25, 2011, 10:14:54 AM
I think WIDOT would rather decommission WI-175 than turn it back into a USH.  It really isn't worthy of a state highway designation right now.  I would simply have an unsigned duplex.  US-41 disappears at the WI/IL state line and reappears at the northern end of I-41.
I'm suggesting moving US 41 to replace WI 57 between Milwaukee and Green Bay (following I-43 to the Port Washington split), with present US 41 becoming 'I-57'.

Mike
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: english si on February 25, 2011, 12:59:13 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on February 25, 2011, 11:18:48 AMI thought US-74 was bad enough.
US74 is far worse - I-41 is simply an interstate upgrade of part of the US41 corridor, whereas I-74 is a road that multiplexes with US74 for a bit but is on a different corridor. Also it's way too-far south to be called I-74 and won't get joined up with the other section: they should have given it a free number in the 30s or something. At least I-41 fits the grid perfectly, even if, like I-74 it breaks the rules about same-state same-number US route and Interstate.

I-41/US41 is like the state route extensions, except that it's a US route extension and goes from both ends.

I've never understood why some roadgeeks find I_41 so abhorrent that they want to renumber hundreds (sometimes thousands) of miles of road to avoid having I-41 along US41. Perhaps as I'm used to things like the M23 running parallel to the A23, and the M40 paralleling the A40 from London to Oxford, before heading in different directions (north west to Birmingham and west to Cheltenham and beyond respectively), I'm rather open to the idea of even I-74/US74 type things. I buy the rule-breaking arguments against I-41, but cannot see how it is such a disaster as needing millions of dollars spend, and lots of confusion caused, by renumbering a load of major roads. Business routes are similar to having US41 remain on surface streets in Milwaukee as now, with I-41 on the freeway a bit to the west - two roads, same number, different colour shields, and it wouldn't be hard to just renumber US41 there anyway as it's not that long.

I can't see a logical, rational reason to not have I-41 along US41 if US41 is upgraded to interstate standards and will be signed as an interstate. You could argue that it could just be upgraded and signed as US41 and have a hidden I-41 designation or something, but if blue and red shields go up, can anyone suggest to me any practical reason (ie not "it breaks the rule") why they shouldn't have a number 41 on them? Confusion is a non-argument as, at worst, it'll be no worse than having a business loop and state route continuations. Large amounts of renumbering to get I-55 or I-57 up there is just a bit impractical.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: agentsteel53 on February 25, 2011, 01:45:55 PM
my question is not why interstate 41 is 41, but why it is interstate.  Not every freeway in the country needs a red, white, and blue shield!
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: english si on February 25, 2011, 02:12:40 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on February 25, 2011, 01:45:55 PM
my question is not why interstate 41 is 41, but why it is interstate.  Not every freeway in the country needs a red, white, and blue shield!
Which I said was a perfectly valid argument. But why mention US74 being 'bad enough'?
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: agentsteel53 on February 25, 2011, 02:22:44 PM
Quote from: english si on February 25, 2011, 02:12:40 PM
Which I said was a perfectly valid argument. But why mention US74 being 'bad enough'?

because it seems they randomly upgraded a US route to interstate shields.  To do something twice is worse than doing it once.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: english si on February 25, 2011, 02:31:39 PM
but they didn't upgrade US74 to interstate - they upgraded a different corridor that happened to use part of US74. Add to that the multiplex of US and I- routes with the same number that '41 has and it confuses your point.

There's probably an example that would have made your point more obvious - US220, perhaps? In PA (I-99) and NC (I-73/74)!
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: mightyace on February 26, 2011, 01:47:48 AM
^^^

But, the part of US 220 that originally was designated I-99 was already interstate standard.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: hobsini2 on February 26, 2011, 04:12:45 AM
I personally have no problem what so ever with US 41 becoming I-41 since it fits reasonably into the current grid.  All I am saying is US 41 signage should either stay with the freeway or use WI 175 which years ago WAS US 41 to begin with.  And you can have 41 return to 27th Street in Milwaukee and drop 241.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: froggie on February 28, 2011, 07:40:13 AM
Quotemy question is not why interstate 41 is 41, but why it is interstate.  Not every freeway in the country needs a red, white, and blue shield!

As a general rule, I agree.  But in this particular case, the Appleton/Fox Cities area (~140K pop, plus another 60K in nearby Oshkosh) is large enough to warrant Interstate access.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: SEWIGuy on February 28, 2011, 10:30:18 AM
The reason that US-41 was dropped from 27th Street pretty much had everything to do with the fact that the Layton Boulevard neighborhood wanted any highway designation dropped from their street.  (Layton is essentially 27th Street between about National Ave. and Loomis Ave.)  The WI-241 designation and the WI-36 (Loomis) now begin at the same intersection.

So no, US-41 will not be moved back to 27th Street.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: triplemultiplex on February 28, 2011, 07:10:26 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 28, 2011, 10:30:18 AM
The reason that US-41 was dropped from 27th Street pretty much had everything to do with the fact that the Layton Boulevard neighborhood wanted any highway designation dropped from their street.  (Layton is essentially 27th Street between about National Ave. and Loomis Ave.)  The WI-241 designation and the WI-36 (Loomis) now begin at the same intersection.

So no, US-41 will not be moved back to 27th Street.
Close.
When WisDOT rebuilt Layton Blvd in the 90's they wanted to make some upgrades that would widen the street in a way that locals were opposed to.  Rather than get in big fight over what amounts to an unnecessary part of the numbered highway system in the area, WisDOT just reconstructed as-is and yanked US 41 (or any other potential state highway) off of Layton.  And so now we've got WI 241 and secret WI 341.


I came through Oshkosh earlier today and southbound traffic has been shifted over to make room for northbound traffic to share the southbound carriageway while the northbound carriageway is reconstructed.  The shift for northbound traffic is next week.  Tonight, the 9th Street interchange closes for reconstruction.  This follows the recent start of the long term closure for Schnuering Rd and it's interchange in De Pere.  This is just the start for 2011; it's going to be a busy year on US 41.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: mgk920 on March 01, 2011, 11:22:33 PM
Also, the interchanges at US 41/Breezewood-Bell (interchange 129) in Neenah and at US 41/9th Ave (interchange 117) in Oshkosh will be gong down for the summer within the next couple of weeks.  9th Ave may already be closed.  In both cases, the interchanges will be rebuilt as standard diamonds with roundabouts at their ramp intersections and the intersections between the cross roads and the adjacent frontage roads.  Breezewood-Bell is expected to reopen in October.

Further, this summer, US 41 will be getting auxiliary lanes in both directions between College Ave (WI 125 - interchange 137) and Wisconsin Ave (WI 96 - interchange 138) in Appleton, as well as northbound between Winchester Rd (interchange 133) and US 10/WI 441 (interchange 134) between Appleton and Neenah.

Agreed, it will be construction geek HEAVEN!

:clap:  :spin:

:cheers:

Mike
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: hobsini2 on March 03, 2011, 02:43:15 PM
Yeah I am not looking forward to visiting my grandmother with all these closures in Oshkosh.  It was bad enough with Witzel Ave closed last summer.  Now 9th and WI 21 are slated for this summer.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: triplemultiplex on March 04, 2011, 06:42:32 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on March 03, 2011, 02:43:15 PM
Yeah I am not looking forward to visiting my grandmother with all these closures in Oshkosh.  It was bad enough with Witzel Ave closed last summer.  Now 9th and WI 21 are slated for this summer.
It's 9th and US 45 this year.  WI 21 is next year.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: kharvey10 on March 06, 2011, 05:00:14 AM
Yeah WisDOT didn't get their first option of the 141 alignment being I-57 because of the rumor that IDiOT did not want to sign a I-57/94 concurrency, which would had at the very least corrected the cardinal direction stupidity that is I-94 from Chicago to Milwaukee.  (Chicagoland residents would cared less about the renumbering, they call their highways by names anyway.)

You know that WisDOT isn't going to get their I-41 numbering nor will IDiOT.  That is how I-39 came into play.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: hobsini2 on March 06, 2011, 08:03:35 AM
The only exception to the named highway rule in Chicago is I-57.  It has been called by some older state maps the "West Leg of Dan Ryan Expy" but no one calls it that.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: mukade on March 06, 2011, 08:36:11 AM
Quote from: hobsini2 on March 06, 2011, 08:03:35 AM
The only exception to the named highway rule in Chicago is I-57.  It has been called by some older state maps the "West Leg of Dan Ryan Expy" but no one calls it that.
Assuming Chicagoland instead of Chicago proper, I-80 west of the Tri-State also is not named, AFAIK.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: mukade on March 06, 2011, 09:23:28 AM
Quote from: kharvey10 on March 06, 2011, 05:00:14 AM
Yeah WisDOT didn't get their first option of the 141 alignment being I-57 because of the rumor that IDiOT did not want to sign a I-57/94 concurrency, which would had at the very least corrected the cardinal direction stupidity that is I-94 from Chicago to Milwaukee.  (Chicagoland residents would cared less about the renumbering, they call their highways by names anyway.)

You know that WisDOT isn't going to get their I-41 numbering nor will IDiOT.  That is how I-39 came into play.
Although I-57 looks like the best route number on a map, judging by the control "city" (i.e. Indiana, not St. Louis, Joliet, or Kankakee) once in Chicago's northern suburbs, I bet more southbound drivers from Wisconsin going past Chicago actually go toward I-65 than I-55 or I-57. I would hate to see Illinois get yet another Interstate number, but if an existing route were to be extended, that probably makes the most sense from a thru traffic perspective. Comparing AADT, I-65 clearly carries the most traffic of the three routes south of Chicagoland. I-55 would probably be second best as a good number of Wisconsin drivers would be heading toward St. Louis and toward Texas. I still don't see I-57 as a heavily used interstate past Kankakee and down to Mt. Vernon where traffic from St. Louis joins.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: Brandon on March 06, 2011, 10:50:21 AM
Quote from: mukade on March 06, 2011, 08:36:11 AM
Quote from: hobsini2 on March 06, 2011, 08:03:35 AM
The only exception to the named highway rule in Chicago is I-57.  It has been called by some older state maps the "West Leg of Dan Ryan Expy" but no one calls it that.
Assuming Chicagoland instead of Chicago proper, I-80 west of the Tri-State also is not named, AFAIK.

It's the Moline Expressway.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: hobsini2 on March 06, 2011, 11:31:58 AM
Quote from: Brandon on March 06, 2011, 10:50:21 AM
Quote from: mukade on March 06, 2011, 08:36:11 AM
Quote from: hobsini2 on March 06, 2011, 08:03:35 AM
The only exception to the named highway rule in Chicago is I-57.  It has been called by some older state maps the "West Leg of Dan Ryan Expy" but no one calls it that.
Assuming Chicagoland instead of Chicago proper, I-80 west of the Tri-State also is not named, AFAIK.

It's the Moline Expressway.
It is the Moline Expy but now one, not even WBBM in their traffic reports, refers to it as such.  It's just I-80.  Also, the Broman Expressway is hardly ever mentioned.  It is more of 80/94 being used.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: Grzrd on May 03, 2011, 03:48:30 PM
US 41 may be getting interstate shields by 2015, number to be determined after FHWA approval:
http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/121132114.html
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: Presty1965 on May 04, 2011, 11:21:09 PM
http://presteblog.blogspot.com/2011/05/interstate.html (http://presteblog.blogspot.com/2011/05/interstate.html)

My preference is I-55 if I-41 is not possible.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: triplemultiplex on May 24, 2011, 11:13:31 AM
While driving though the Oshkosh work zone last weekend, it occurred to me that the stretch of what is now US 45 between Oshkosh and US 10 has been detoured quite frequently in recent years.
As WI 110, it was detoured in the mid 90's for a 2 lane rebuild between Butte Des Mortes and Winchester.
It was detoured again for the expressway expansion getting on 10 years ago now.
Another detour to fill the gap in the four lane 3 years ago.
Now it's detoured yet again to upgrade the US 41 interchange.

At least after this year, it'll be decades before it get's detoured again.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: mgk920 on May 28, 2011, 02:27:27 PM
A few more words on the subject....

http://www.postcrescent.com/article/20110528/APC0101/105280483

Article includes a neat image of the upgrade construction in Neenah.

Enjoy!

:cheers:

Mike
Title: Future US 41 Interstate freeway notes 05-30-11 (WI)
Post by: Alex on June 04, 2011, 11:21:12 AM
Drove the entire Future Interstate corridor of US 41 from Milwaukee to Green Bay on Memorial Day. Some notes:
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: Alps on June 04, 2011, 11:28:26 AM
It's a one-state route of approximately 100 miles (or even less), has any thought been given to making it an x43?
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: Alex on June 04, 2011, 02:36:45 PM
Quote from: Steve on June 04, 2011, 11:28:26 AM
It's a one-state route of approximately 100 miles (or even less), has any thought been given to making it an x43?

Interstate 243 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=350.0) was also suggested.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: Stephane Dumas on June 04, 2011, 02:44:21 PM
Quote from: Alex on June 04, 2011, 02:36:45 PM


Interstate 243 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=350.0) was also suggested.

There was even I-65 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=350.msg8450#msg8450) who was suggested as well.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: mgk920 on June 04, 2011, 07:36:36 PM
WisDOT is also just beginning work on the US 41/WI 29 major interchange in Green Bay.

Mike
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: mgk920 on June 07, 2011, 12:12:39 AM
Minor upgrade project oopsie:

http://www.postcrescent.com/article/20110606/APC0101/106060460

I was wondering why that whole section of new retaining wall mysteriously disappeared a few weeks ago....

Mike
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: mgk920 on June 08, 2011, 12:02:19 PM
Interesting, this traffic alert was just posted on the WisDOT website regarding a traffic blockage in the US 41 construction-geek zone in Oshkosh:

"Winnebago County: on Wednesday, June 8th, law enforcement is reporting that the southbound lanes of US 41 near Oshkosh are closed due to a traffic incident. Traffic must exit at WIS 76 and follow the detour signs back to the interstate (emphasis added)".

:-o

Mike
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: agentsteel53 on June 08, 2011, 12:09:01 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on June 08, 2011, 12:02:19 PM
"Traffic must exit at WIS 76 and follow the detour signs back to the federal highway (emphasis added)".


FTFS5114
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: NE2 on June 08, 2011, 05:27:52 PM
Since US 41 crosses the state line, it's interstate.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: Jordanah1 on October 07, 2011, 12:58:35 PM
roadgeek update from U.S.41/U.S.45 interchange. i went sunday driving today(friday 10-7-2011) and drove around the interchange. with the temporary bypass removed, they are grading the approach to the us45 overpass, and are grading the flyover approach. they have also started more of the flyover ramp pillings. the us 45 overpass appears compleated, but still needs to be painter on one half. the southbound us45 bridge over the south us45-south us41 ramp is still under construction, but appears to be nearing completion, as the 45s-41s ramp beneith it is open.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: triplemultiplex on October 10, 2011, 04:39:36 PM
Couple pics from the end of September coming through on the newly opened US 45 SB -> US 41 SB ramp.

Here's where US 45 will exit off itself SB
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi113.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn208%2Ftriplemultiplex%2FOshkosh%2520fall%25202011%2FIMG_1562.jpg%3Ft%3D1318278193&hash=6801a0653af7130f9ee94a5114cf608426dfd8a3)

45 SB passing over the 'mainline' ramp to 41 SB.  NB->NB flyover has half of it's girders in place off to the left.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi113.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn208%2Ftriplemultiplex%2FOshkosh%2520fall%25202011%2FIMG_1564.jpg&hash=0b83f5c0e342eaeb1a632d84be70e02ea1b72613)

Ramp from Algoma St/US 45 NB will merge here as the 'mainline' ramp passes beneath the newly constructed Butte des Mortes Dr.  You can see all traffic utilizing the SB carriageway on US 41 while the NB carriageway is still to be finished.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi113.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn208%2Ftriplemultiplex%2FOshkosh%2520fall%25202011%2FIMG_1568.jpg%3Ft%3D1318278606&hash=fe475c769e48606566209abae3b2086bdc0ac3d3)

Looking good so far.  I'll be through there again this weekend and get some shots going NB on 41 through this interchange.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: mgk920 on October 11, 2011, 12:28:07 AM
^^
As part of that project, the interchange at Breezewood Ln/Bell St in Neenah will open and a major southbound traffic shift from there to near the prison will be taking effect on Tuesday.

Mike
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: Jordanah1 on October 13, 2011, 06:43:28 PM
hopefully i will remember to bring a camera one of these days and get some pictures of the construction from surface streets. does anyone know when the US41 connecting Wisconsin website will have any new pictures, and materials? i think the most recent pictures are from june'ish or earlier.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: Jordanah1 on October 14, 2011, 05:47:05 PM
i took some pictures (friday 10-14-2011) of the US41-US45 interchange. im not very good at taking pictures while driving on a curvy road, and the camera has essentially no zoom, so some in the album are of sky and ground, and they repeatedly failed to upload, and when they finaly did, all the failed uploads were in the album, so theres actually only 12 pictures. link http://s1110.photobucket.com/albums/h454/jordanah1/
looking south from snell road overpass
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1110.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh454%2Fjordanah1%2FDSCF3573.jpg&hash=5be43f7350b7e694b7424fbc749095bfc635c99d)
US41north-US45north flyover
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1110.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh454%2Fjordanah1%2FDSCF3569-4.jpg&hash=8db227892822e015a45122b563bcc95461b934ef)
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: mgk920 on October 18, 2011, 11:50:09 PM
My biggest impression with the newly-rebuilt US 41/Breezewood-Bell interchange, with its four roundabouts, in Neenah, WI so far since it was completed and fully opened a week ago - 'Where did all of that interchange's legendary street traffic congestion go?'

:hmmm:

Mike
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: Jordanah1 on October 28, 2011, 01:22:42 PM
US45 overpass and US41southbound ramps opening at 6:00pm today. mabey tomorow morning ill go take some pictures, it will probly be to dark today
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: mgk920 on October 28, 2011, 04:06:39 PM
Quote from: Jordanah1 on October 28, 2011, 01:22:42 PM
US45 overpass and US41southbound ramps opening at 6:00pm today. mabey tomorow morning ill go take some pictures, it will probly be to dark today

This is the bridge that connects the US 45 freeway to the northeast with the city streets (Algoma BD, which is US 45, et al) to the southeast.  Also opening are the ramps that connect that street crossing to SB US 41.  It includes a roundabout for the street/ramps intersection.

The northbound ramps will all open next summer (likely by EAA week).

Mike
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: Jordanah1 on October 30, 2011, 09:49:18 AM
i got some pictures from outside the car of the flyover ramp taking shape, most of the pictures from in the car are really bad though.
http://s1110.photobucket.com/albums/h454/jordanah1/Us41-US45%20interchange%202/
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: US71 on October 30, 2011, 09:57:24 AM
US 41 got mention on Whad Ya Know: something about an archaeological dig in the way of an upgrade to I-43?
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: mgk920 on October 30, 2011, 11:43:52 AM
Quote from: US71 on October 30, 2011, 09:57:24 AM
US 41 got mention on Whad Ya Know: something about an archaeological dig in the way of an upgrade to I-43?

No idea, but I-43 ends at US 41 in the Green Bay area and WisDOT is finalizing plans for a major upgrade to the interchange.

Mike
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: mgk920 on November 18, 2011, 02:29:41 PM
(cues: Mormon Tabernacle Choir - Chorus from Handel's 'Messiah')

No article links handy, but WisDOT has just completed and opened all six lanes on US 41 from the south end of the project (just south of WI 26) to just south of WI 21 in Oshkosh.

See:
http://www.511wi.gov/Web/Cameras.aspx?countyfilter=Winnebago
especially the cameras for US 41 at WI 26, WI 44 and 9th Ave.

:hyper:

:cheers:

Mike
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: Jordanah1 on December 28, 2011, 11:44:36 PM
the girders for the flyover ramp at US41/US45 are almost done. last i saw, they stretched across the last collumn. with the only remaining stretch being to the approach of the flyover. they were also preparing to pour jersey barriers, curbs, and more retaining wall on the approach. ill try to get some pictures tomorow
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: Jordanah1 on December 29, 2011, 12:27:31 PM
i was lucky enough to be there when they were lifting the last girder into place.
before
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1110.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh454%2Fjordanah1%2Fus45%2520interchange%25203%2FDSCF3620.jpg&hash=cc3e37781fd2846be8342aedb5a5621a9006beb2)
after
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1110.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh454%2Fjordanah1%2Fus45%2520interchange%25203%2FDSCF3638.jpg&hash=078333f70194891257adc677584566ffe44133b4)
here is the link to the rest of the album
http://s1110.photobucket.com/albums/h454/jordanah1/us45%20interchange%203/
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: Duke87 on December 30, 2011, 08:15:06 PM
It would seem as though as things stand the plan for the northern end of the I-41(or whatever) designation is at the interchange that's also the north end of I-43 in Green Bay.

This... kinda bothers me. First of all, you have two interstates ending at the same spot, which is silly. Second, you have perfectly good freeway continuing further north that will be seemingly arbitrarily left off the designation, which is even sillier.
The north end of I-41 should be at the 41/141 split near Abrams. You know, the end of the freeway, where one might logically expect an interstate designation to end.

Also, WI 172 = I-241 or I-243 and WI 441 = I-441 (yeah, yeah, getting fictional here, I know...).
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: Jordanah1 on December 30, 2011, 08:36:53 PM
i thought that WI172 should be I x41 aswell, probley I 241, if WI 441 in the fox cities would be I 441. i think that I the interstate designation should end at I43, untill perhaps if a freeway on US41 gets extended all the way to I75 thrn it could terminate there. otherwise besides the fact that it technicaly could end at the abrams split, there is no reason that the fed government should commit to another 20 or so miles of interstate highway.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: hobsini2 on December 31, 2011, 05:37:53 PM
Quote from: Jordanah1 on December 30, 2011, 08:36:53 PM
i thought that WI172 should be I x41 aswell, probley I 241, if WI 441 in the fox cities would be I 441. i think that I the interstate designation should end at I43, untill perhaps if a freeway on US41 gets extended all the way to I75 thrn it could terminate there. otherwise besides the fact that it technicaly could end at the abrams split, there is no reason that the fed government should commit to another 20 or so miles of interstate highway.
Actually I doubt that WI 172 freeway becomes I-241 for the simple reason that Wisconsin does not like to duplicate numbers on the highway system with one exception. There is no WI 43, 90, or 94 for this reason. WI 39 is in exsistance because it predates I-39 and is far enough away from I-39 to not be confused with it. WI 241 already exists in Milwaukee for 27th St.  If anything, more likely to be I-641 or I-443.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: SSOWorld on December 31, 2011, 11:45:24 PM
If 172 was going to be a 3di - it would have been x43 a long time ago.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: triplemultiplex on January 03, 2012, 05:55:04 PM
Oh cool beans!
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/neregion/41/index.htm (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/neregion/41/index.htm)

I was going to post some crap about this 3di dreaming (I'm definitely pro-I-441 & I-243), but this is way more interesting:

QuoteInstallation of Interstate signs anticipated to start in 2014

Interestingly, no number is referred to anywhere.  Just the phrase "Study route designation alternatives" as an ongoing aspect.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: Jordanah1 on January 04, 2012, 09:42:35 PM
oh...that is cool beans...it is supposed to be from the mitchel interchange, so im guessing numberwise, that is ruling out I57/I55.....
im sure its been talked about before, but why havent(or have they) considered if designating it I41, extend its designation all the way to Chicagoland, giving I94 north-south a proper N-S designation?
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: mgk920 on January 04, 2012, 10:34:32 PM
Quote from: Jordanah1 on January 04, 2012, 09:42:35 PM
oh...that is cool beans...it is supposed to be from the mitchel interchange, so im guessing numberwise, that is ruling out I57/I55.....
im sure its been talked about before, but why havent(or have they) considered if designating it I41, extend its designation all the way to Chicagoland, giving I94 north-south a proper N-S designation?

55 or 57 would fit right in to the Mitchell interchange, especially if one of those numbers is extended northward from Chicago.  Either would give I-94 a proper 'north-south' route number, too (I-94 is signed as 'east-west' between Chicago and Milwaukee).

BTW, the numbers being proposed to AASHTO by WisDOT are '41', '55', '57' and '243'.

Mike
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: Alps on January 05, 2012, 09:05:21 PM
I didn't consider I-243, but that seems like a nice option, since US 41 and I-43 connect the same two cities.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: Revive 755 on January 05, 2012, 10:58:56 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 04, 2012, 10:34:32 PM
BTW, the numbers being proposed to AASHTO by WisDOT are '41', '55', '57' and '243'.

Mike

There isn't a list of AASHTO voting members out there perhaps, so I can do some lobbying for a particular number?  :sombrero:
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: hobsini2 on January 05, 2012, 11:20:05 PM
Quote from: The Situation™ on January 05, 2012, 09:05:21 PM
I didn't consider I-243, but that seems like a nice option, since US 41 and I-43 connect the same two cities.
One problem with making 172 as I-243. State Hwy 243 already exists by Osceola (admittedly small and on the other side of the state) and WI does not like to make duplicate routes.
More likely as I-443 if going to be a x43.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: Brandon on January 06, 2012, 07:12:41 AM
Quote from: hobsini2 on January 05, 2012, 11:20:05 PM
Quote from: The Situation™ on January 05, 2012, 09:05:21 PM
I didn't consider I-243, but that seems like a nice option, since US 41 and I-43 connect the same two cities.
One problem with making 172 as I-243. State Hwy 243 already exists by Osceola (admittedly small and on the other side of the state) and WI does not like to make duplicate routes.
More likely as I-443 if going to be a x43.

I-39 and Wis-39, anyone?
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: Jordanah1 on January 06, 2012, 04:24:30 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 04, 2012, 10:34:32 PM
Quote from: Jordanah1 on January 04, 2012, 09:42:35 PM
oh...that is cool beans...it is supposed to be from the mitchel interchange, so im guessing numberwise, that is ruling out I57/I55.....
im sure its been talked about before, but why havent(or have they) considered if designating it I41, extend its designation all the way to Chicagoland, giving I94 north-south a proper N-S designation?

55 or 57 would fit right in to the Mitchell interchange, especially if one of those numbers is extended northward from Chicago.  Either would give I-94 a proper 'north-south' route number, too (I-94 is signed as 'east-west' between Chicago and Milwaukee).

BTW, the numbers being proposed to AASHTO by WisDOT are '41', '55', '57' and '243'.

Mike
what i was refering to is that they were planning to start signing of the Ixx from the mitchel interchange to the north, suggesting that it wouldn't be I55 or I57 because they would also at the same time have ro sign it to the south of the mitchel interchange, it doesnt make sense to have I55 or  I57 terminate in chicago, while a new stretch is signed 50 miles to the north in Milwaukee with no signs in between....i think one indication of the p[ossible identity of our Ixx is the fact that as far as i know, illinois has no plans to do signing of any new interstates within the state....my origional statement was i think misunderstood.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: Brandon on January 06, 2012, 07:45:35 PM
^^ I-57 would work better, however, than I-55.  I-55 would require one lane ramps to get onto the Ryan or the Tri-State (or I-355 for that matter).  I-57 has a ready-made Merge (and Split) with I-94.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: tchafe1978 on January 06, 2012, 10:00:24 PM
One question I have, since the new interstate designation will start at the Mitchell Interchange, is what will happen to the current routing of US 41 along Appleton Ave. and the Stadium North Freeway in Milwaukee? Will US 41 move entirely onto the new interstate routing as well? Or will it stay on its present routing? If US 41 is rerouted, will the current routing be renumbered as a state highway? If it is, it would make for a perfect extension of WIS 341, which is currently unsigned along Miller Park Way.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: mgk920 on January 06, 2012, 11:01:07 PM
Quote from: Jordanah1 on January 06, 2012, 04:24:30 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 04, 2012, 10:34:32 PM
Quote from: Jordanah1 on January 04, 2012, 09:42:35 PM
oh...that is cool beans...it is supposed to be from the mitchel interchange, so im guessing numberwise, that is ruling out I57/I55.....
im sure its been talked about before, but why havent(or have they) considered if designating it I41, extend its designation all the way to Chicagoland, giving I94 north-south a proper N-S designation?

55 or 57 would fit right in to the Mitchell interchange, especially if one of those numbers is extended northward from Chicago.  Either would give I-94 a proper 'north-south' route number, too (I-94 is signed as 'east-west' between Chicago and Milwaukee).

BTW, the numbers being proposed to AASHTO by WisDOT are '41', '55', '57' and '243'.

Mike
what i was refering to is that they were planning to start signing of the Ixx from the mitchel interchange to the north, suggesting that it wouldn't be I55 or I57 because they would also at the same time have ro sign it to the south of the mitchel interchange, it doesnt make sense to have I55 or  I57 terminate in chicago, while a new stretch is signed 50 miles to the north in Milwaukee with no signs in between....i think one indication of the p[ossible identity of our Ixx is the fact that as far as i know, illinois has no plans to do signing of any new interstates within the state....my origional statement was i think misunderstood.

How long did it take for IDOT and the ISTHA to post I-39 signs north of the Cherry Valley I-90 interchange after WisDOT marked their part?

Mike

Post Merge: January 08, 2012, 07:42:03 AM

Quote from: tchafe1978 on January 06, 2012, 10:00:24 PM
One question I have, since the new interstate designation will start at the Mitchell Interchange, is what will happen to the current routing of US 41 along Appleton Ave. and the Stadium North Freeway in Milwaukee? Will US 41 move entirely onto the new interstate routing as well? Or will it stay on its present routing? If US 41 is rerouted, will the current routing be renumbered as a state highway? If it is, it would make for a perfect extension of WIS 341, which is currently unsigned along Miller Park Way.

For many years I have been trying to prod WisDOT into marking US 41 to follow the logical routing through Milwaukee County (I-94 -> I-894 -> US 45).  Under that, Appleton Ave and the Stadium Freeway/Miller Park Way would be a natural for a southward extension of WI 175.

Mike
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: hobsini2 on January 07, 2012, 01:05:24 AM
Brandon, I didn't forget about I-39 and Wis 39 both existing. But that was also a case where the state highway existed long before the interstate route. But that is the only exception currently to the duplication rule in Wisconsin.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: triplemultiplex on January 09, 2012, 04:24:02 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on January 07, 2012, 01:05:24 AM
Brandon, I didn't forget about I-39 and Wis 39 both existing. But that was also a case where the state highway existed long before the interstate route. But that is the only exception currently to the duplication rule in Wisconsin.
Well we also have I-794 and WI 794, but that's slightly different since they are connected.
I personally don't give a crap about duplicating route numbers. No one's going to mistake a freeway in Green Bay for a bridge to Minnesota, in this case.

I'm curious as to whether or not the new interstate will spell the end of I-894.  It seems pretty logical to me to get rid of 894 thus giving us continuity and eliminating a potential useless duplex.  It's certainly something I'd bring up at a future PIM.
If they do ditch 894, I wouldn't mind getting my hands on a sign or two.  ;)
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: SEWIGuy on January 09, 2012, 04:52:14 PM
While I realize that I-57 would make the most sense coming from the Chicago area, I would assume that it would require a renumbering of WI-57 simply because it is the same number, essentially connecting the same two cities.

What I think they should do is number it I-41 from the Mitchell Interchange north...extending WI-175 south through Milwaukee to the Stadium interchange, and then simply have US-41 unsigned throughout Wisconsin until north of Green Bay.  It's been known for years as "Highway 41"...just keep it that way.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: mgk920 on January 18, 2012, 03:20:57 PM
Impressive 'after' view of NB US 41 at Mason St in Green Bay, looking north:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=352312674796237&set=a.290084707685701.85975.139159859444854&type=1&ref=nf

:wow:

Enjoy!

Mike
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: hobsini2 on January 18, 2012, 10:27:03 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on January 18, 2012, 03:20:57 PM
Impressive 'after' view of NB US 41 at Mason St in Green Bay, looking north:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=352312674796237&set=a.290084707685701.85975.139159859444854&type=1&ref=nf

:wow:

Enjoy!

Mike

It certainly looks cool but i have one gripe with the signage. 41 North should still have a control city on it say Oconto, Marinette, or Marquette MI. I hope 41 south at the least will have Appleton or Oshkosh with the new signage.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: Jordanah1 on January 19, 2012, 05:51:22 PM
i could be COMPLEATLY wrong, but i think the only control cities are green bay and milwaukee...and im sure chicago in the millwaukee area....there are new electronic signs...and mabey they will have times to city X on them...but i dont think any other signs do...this is from what i have seen in renderings...and a few signs up here in Oshkosh.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: rawmustard on January 19, 2012, 06:29:16 PM
Quote from: Jordanah1 on January 19, 2012, 05:51:22 PM
i could be COMPLEATLY wrong, but i think the only control cities are green bay and milwaukee...and im sure chicago in the millwaukee area....there are new electronic signs...and mabey they will have times to city X on them...but i dont think any other signs do...this is from what i have seen in renderings...and a few signs up here in Oshkosh.

I would want to think WisDOT would use whatever control city is used at the northern 41/141 split. Oconto would make the most sense. I'm not sure what MDOT uses, but probably not Marquette until US-41 heads north out of Escanaba.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: agentsteel53 on January 19, 2012, 06:37:01 PM
Quote from: Jordanah1 on January 19, 2012, 05:51:22 PMi could be COMPLEATLY wrong

yes.  yes you are.

could you please, possibly, with a cherry on top, "mabey" use correct English spelling and grammar in your posts?
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: mgk920 on January 19, 2012, 10:17:24 PM
'Appleton' is used as a US 41 control at the WI 172 Ashwaubenon Interchange.

As for the BGSes at Mason St, just the 'NORTH US 41' control is fine, as it serves a lot of local traffic.  Now, OTOH, at I-43, 'Marinette/Iron Mountain' would be my control.

I would also use 'Appleton' instead of 'Fond du Lac' as the control for US 45/I-894 in metro Milwaukee.

Mike
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: Alps on January 20, 2012, 12:14:04 AM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on January 19, 2012, 06:37:01 PM
Quote from: Jordanah1 on January 19, 2012, 05:51:22 PMi could be COMPLEATLY wrong

yes.  yes you are.

could you please, possibly, with a cherry on top, "mabey" use correct English spelling and grammar in your posts?
The Compleat Angler was there first. Therefore Jordana is correct.

yes i know it's jordan a h
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: GeekJedi on January 21, 2012, 11:19:25 PM
IIRC, Marinette is used as a control city for NB US 41 from WIS 172.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: Jordanah1 on January 26, 2012, 06:25:01 PM
Quote from: Upside down frog in a triangle on January 20, 2012, 12:14:04 AM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on January 19, 2012, 06:37:01 PM
Quote from: Jordanah1 on January 19, 2012, 05:51:22 PMi could be COMPLEATLY wrong
yes.  yes you are.

could you please, possibly, with a cherry on top, "mabey" use correct English spelling and grammar in your posts?
The Compleat Angler was there first. Therefore Jordana is correct.

yes i know it's jordan a h
i think i can read your white thing at the bottom...yes.. its jordan a h...(initials). and i was refering to the new signage along the corridor in oshkosh and green bay. and potential sign upgrades in the milwaukee area when the interstate designation is given, and signage changes....and..im sorry that i was wrong...at least i said that i wasn't sure...

Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: mgk920 on January 28, 2012, 12:48:56 AM
Interesting - WisDOT has just distributed brochures explaining the 2012 work plans for US 41 in both the Oshkosh-Neenah and Green Bay areas in Thursday's (2012-01-26) editions of the newspapers in NE Wisconsin.

Neat!

:nod:

Mike
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: mgk920 on February 23, 2012, 09:00:23 PM
I went to an informational meeting this evening in Oshkosh for the WI 21 interchange area and have a few interesting tidbits to report.

-WisDOT had a REALLY NICE scale model of that interchange and causeway area on display.   :cool:

-The US 41/WI 21 interchange and WI 21 across US 41 will close in the early AM of Monday, 2012-03-19 and is planned for reopening on 2012-11-15.  The contractor will receive a $50K/day bonus for each day that it opens early, up to $500K (ten days) - and that is the contractor's schedule.

-The southbound side of the Lake Butte des Morts Causeway is being worked on as I type this, crews are setting beams on one of the bridges tonight and tomorrow night. Northbound will be done next year.

-Two county highway bridges to the north of the causeway (County 'Y' and County 'G') will be replaced in either 2013 and/or 2014.  This is mainly to bring things up to modern standards plus add off-road trail facilities to each.  I was told that snowmobilers frequently cross US 41 at County 'G'.

-Forget about adding any additional interchanges between WI 76 by Oshkosh and Breezewood-Bell in Neenah.  Interstate standards will not allow a new access in that short of distance without a lot of Federal messing around and the added utility of such an interchange will not be worth the hassles.  This idea has been seriously talked about and studied as recently as the late 1990s/early 2000s.

-(*IMPORTANT ITEM!!!*) Speaking of interstate standards, even though they did not give a percentage likelihood, the WisDOT guys all sounded about 98-99% certain that the I-route number that US 41 will receive upon its pending promotion *WILL NOT* be '41'.  Far and away their favorite number is '55'.  They also said that ID(i)OT isn't thrilled with any of the numbers (but oh well - hehehehe  :-P  ).

I did discuss at length with them how things are all wired together in Chicagoland.  Yes, they are aware of the numbering situation with I-55 vs. I-57 in Chicago and that if the chosen number will indeed be '55', at least part of the Stevenson Expressway will then have to be changed to an 'odd' 3DI.  One of them also said the words "New Orleans".  Regardless, they'll be leaving it up to ID(i)OT and the ISTHA to figure out how to tie the ends together.

(An aside, I actually kind of like the idea that was discussed a while back that if the number is '55', then, with the plans that the ISTHA has to re-engineer the Tri-State Tollway (I-294)/Stevenson (I-55) interchange, I-55 could be rerouted to follow the Tri-State from there to Wisconsin, reflagging the entire Stevenson from there 'in' as an odd 3DI.  I-555 anyone? :nod: [Note, 'I-155' is already in use in Illinois.])

Wither WI 55 in that case?  The WisDOT guys told me that the current plan is to do nothing with it and that they believe that public confusion surrounding such an I-route number (US 41 meets WI 55 in Kaukauna) will not be a problem.

They are expecting preliminary word on the number assignment from the FHWA by sometime in mid to late spring.

Also, I can announce a website on the pending US 41 interstate promotion that has recently gone 'live':
http://www.dot.wi.gov/projects/neregion/41/index.htm

-The NB US 41 to NB US 45 flyover ramp at Algoma Bd in Oshkosh is expected to open by late June.

Mike
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: Revive 755 on February 23, 2012, 10:51:50 PM
So US 41 will likely be I-243?   :)

I can see IDOT not wanting to change all the signs extending I-55 or I-57 would require, but I'm not seeing why IDOT "isn't thrilled with any of the numbers - there isn't exactly a good place for an I-243 to enter Illinois, and I highly doubt there is a secret plan for an I-41 in Illinois.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: JREwing78 on February 24, 2012, 02:12:34 AM
I-55 would be far and away the most prominent choice, not just because of "New Orleans, but also "Memphis" and "St. Louis". It also is probably the best fit for the interstate highway grid in general, though it does make I-43 north of Milwaukee look even more out of place.

We could really cheese off the IDOT guys and team this with a I-57 extension replacing I-43 north of Milwaukee.

I'm not sure now would be the best time for WisDOT to go against their "no concurrency" policy. WI-39 was different because it was sufficiently separated from I-39. But having "55" and "55" meet at an interchange would make providing directions a pain for the folks in Kaukauna. I would rather see it replaced with WI-155 or WI-255. Or, dig up WI-62 or WI-150 out of the ashes.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: hobsini2 on February 24, 2012, 07:29:39 AM
There are a couple major issues of rebuilding the I-55/I-294 interchange to allow I-55 to go up US 41 i can think of.

First is the room for widening the ramps from NB 55 to NB 294 and SB 294 to SB 55. You would have to close the Joliet Rd part of the interchange (which would piss off people in Indian Head Park and Countryside), widen SB 294 to SB 55 ramp to at least 2 lanes if not 3 lanes, and the proximaty (sp) of the County Line Rd interchange on 55 would need a 3 lane wide c-d roadway.

Secondly, 294 itself would have to add at least 1 more lane each direction (making 294 a 10 lane highway at minimum) to carry the flow of new traffic to go with the current traffic along with 94 in Lake, Kenosha, Racine, and Milwaukee Counties.

This is a construction nightmare if you ask me.

If one were to extend 55 or 57 into WI, it should be 57 since you already have to interchanges in place to accomidate the added traffic.

I could see 55 being rerouted onto a farther bypass of Chicago like 355 if the 53 Tollway is ever built into Lake County to Waukegan but frankly i would just keep 55 ending in Chicago.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: NE2 on February 24, 2012, 09:06:00 AM
Changing numbers doesn't change traffic flow. If the interchange is fine currently, it doesn't need reconfiguration just because the numbers change. (Even if it's not currently fine, it doesn't need to jump the queue.)
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: SEWIGuy on February 24, 2012, 02:01:29 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 23, 2012, 09:00:23 PM
Wither WI 55 in that case?  The WisDOT guys told me that the current plan is to do nothing with it and that they believe that public confusion surrounding such an I-route number (US 41 meets WI 55 in Kaukauna) will not be a problem.


Why don't they just renumber the section south of WI-29?  (They can get rid of the 15 mile duplex between Shawano and Angelica.)  Only about 30 miles...and they could do some 3di.  That way they don't have to change the entire highway north of WI-29.

Regardless, I think I-55 with a WI-55 interchange would be much less confusing than an I-57 and a WI-57 both connecting Milwaukee and Green Bay.

Will they keep US-41 on its current routing from the IL border through northern Wisconsin...including a really long concurrency from Appleton Avenue through Green Bay?

Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: mgk920 on February 24, 2012, 04:03:54 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 24, 2012, 02:01:29 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 23, 2012, 09:00:23 PM
Wither WI 55 in that case?  The WisDOT guys told me that the current plan is to do nothing with it and that they believe that public confusion surrounding such an I-route number (US 41 meets WI 55 in Kaukauna) will not be a problem.


Why don't they just renumber the section south of WI-29?  (They can get rid of the 15 mile duplex between Shawano and Angelica.)  Only about 30 miles...and they could do some 3di.  That way they don't have to change the entire highway north of WI-29.

Regardless, I think I-55 with a WI-55 interchange would be much less confusing than an I-57 and a WI-57 both connecting Milwaukee and Green Bay.

Will they keep US-41 on its current routing from the IL border through northern Wisconsin...including a really long concurrency from Appleton Avenue through Green Bay?

From what I could gather, US 41 will stay where it is, too.

Also, a couple of more items:

-I forgot to ask about whether or not WI 441 is also in line for 'promotion'.  :meh:

-WisDOT is likely to start studying US 41 between WI 15 at Appleton and Scheuring Rd in De Pere after all of the current work is complete, but as it stands now, any upgrades on that section are years, if not decades, away.

Mike
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: JREwing78 on February 24, 2012, 11:09:24 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 24, 2012, 02:01:29 PM
Why don't they just renumber the section south of WI-29?  (They can get rid of the 15 mile duplex between Shawano and Angelica.)  Only about 30 miles...and they could do some 3di.  That way they don't have to change the entire highway north of WI-29.

A solid idea. That would at least avoid two routes with the same number meeting up. Call it Highway 62. ;-)


Quote from: mgk920 on February 24, 2012, 04:03:54 PMFrom what I could gather, US 41 will stay where it is, too.

Not surprising, given that WisDOT has no issue with the I-39/US-51 concurrency that largely there for historical purposes. It would also cause a lot more route resigning headaches north of Green Bay than removing US-51 from its route would've.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: hobsini2 on February 25, 2012, 07:14:29 AM
Quote from: NE2 on February 24, 2012, 09:06:00 AM
Changing numbers doesn't change traffic flow. If the interchange is fine currently, it doesn't need reconfiguration just because the numbers change. (Even if it's not currently fine, it doesn't need to jump the queue.)
I disagree with "Changing numbers won't change the traffic flow."
The 55/294 interchange has the NB 55 to NB 294, SB 294 to NB 55, SB 294 to SB 55 ramps all single lane. The only double lane part of any of these ramps is SB 294 to SB 55 until you get to the toll plaza then it becomes a single lane. If 55 was to be routed onto the interchange like some propose, the interchange will need to be widened at a minimum of 2 lanes each direction. Trust me. The interchange unless widened could not handle the traffic.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: Brandon on February 25, 2012, 08:44:12 AM
Quote from: hobsini2 on February 25, 2012, 07:14:29 AM
Quote from: NE2 on February 24, 2012, 09:06:00 AM
Changing numbers doesn't change traffic flow. If the interchange is fine currently, it doesn't need reconfiguration just because the numbers change. (Even if it's not currently fine, it doesn't need to jump the queue.)
I disagree with "Changing numbers won't change the traffic flow."
The 55/294 interchange has the NB 55 to NB 294, SB 294 to NB 55, SB 294 to SB 55 ramps all single lane. The only double lane part of any of these ramps is SB 294 to SB 55 until you get to the toll plaza then it becomes a single lane. If 55 was to be routed onto the interchange like some propose, the interchange will need to be widened at a minimum of 2 lanes each direction. Trust me. The interchange unless widened could not handle the traffic.

Shoot.  It already can't handle the existing traffic.  Part of the problem is the County Line Rd cloverleaf next to it.  I favor getting rid of the eastern half of that interchange and making it into a folded diamond to give the I-294 ramps more room.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: SEWIGuy on February 25, 2012, 08:45:21 AM
Quote from: JREwing78 on February 24, 2012, 11:09:24 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 24, 2012, 02:01:29 PM
Why don't they just renumber the section south of WI-29?  (They can get rid of the 15 mile duplex between Shawano and Angelica.)  Only about 30 miles...and they could do some 3di.  That way they don't have to change the entire highway north of WI-29.

A solid idea. That would at least avoid two routes with the same number meeting up. Call it Highway 62. ;-)


Except I completely forgot that WI-55 heads south along the east side of Lake Winnebago.  Blah...
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: SEWIGuy on February 25, 2012, 08:46:25 AM
Quote from: hobsini2 on February 25, 2012, 07:14:29 AM
Quote from: NE2 on February 24, 2012, 09:06:00 AM
Changing numbers doesn't change traffic flow. If the interchange is fine currently, it doesn't need reconfiguration just because the numbers change. (Even if it's not currently fine, it doesn't need to jump the queue.)
I disagree with "Changing numbers won't change the traffic flow."
The 55/294 interchange has the NB 55 to NB 294, SB 294 to NB 55, SB 294 to SB 55 ramps all single lane. The only double lane part of any of these ramps is SB 294 to SB 55 until you get to the toll plaza then it becomes a single lane. If 55 was to be routed onto the interchange like some propose, the interchange will need to be widened at a minimum of 2 lanes each direction. Trust me. The interchange unless widened could not handle the traffic.


You seem to be saying that by simply changing the routing of I-55 that a bunch of people would take the route that didn't take it previously.  That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: mgk920 on February 25, 2012, 10:52:30 AM
Regardless of the numbering issue, the Tri-State/Stevenson interchange badly needs a complete re-engineering.  If/when the ISTHA ever converts to a transponder/photo only toll system (perhaps set up as a 'virtual ticket' system with the gantries being set up on all of the entrances and exits), then full-speed flyovers can be built there, they could use air-rights over that sewage treatment plant for those and there is room for then to set down for the tollway north.  (For example, I like how that full-speed ramp was done for NB I-39 at the Northwest Tollway at Rockford.)

Yes, the rest of that mess also needs redoing, including finding a new way to handle Joliet Rd (old US 66).

Mike
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: Brandon on February 25, 2012, 04:19:45 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 25, 2012, 10:52:30 AM
Regardless of the numbering issue, the Tri-State/Stevenson interchange badly needs a complete re-engineering.  If/when the ISTHA ever converts to a transponder/photo only toll system (perhaps set up as a 'virtual ticket' system with the gantries being set up on all of the entrances and exits), then full-speed flyovers can be built there, they could use air-rights over that sewage treatment plant for those and there is room for then to set down for the tollway north.  (For example, I like how that full-speed ramp was done for NB I-39 at the Northwest Tollway at Rockford.)

Yes, the rest of that mess also needs redoing, including finding a new way to handle Joliet Rd (old US 66).

Mike

Joliet Rd is the easy part.  It's the County Line Rd ramps that muck up the movements here.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: GeekJedi on February 25, 2012, 11:41:32 PM
Quote from: NE2 on February 24, 2012, 09:06:00 AM
Changing numbers doesn't change traffic flow. If the interchange is fine currently, it doesn't need reconfiguration just because the numbers change. (Even if it's not currently fine, it doesn't need to jump the queue.)

But what about all of those people that took I-55 -> I-294 -> I-94 -> US-41??  They're all going to take I-55 the entire way now!!   :wow:
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: mgk920 on February 26, 2012, 01:19:38 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on February 25, 2012, 11:41:32 PM
Quote from: NE2 on February 24, 2012, 09:06:00 AM
Changing numbers doesn't change traffic flow. If the interchange is fine currently, it doesn't need reconfiguration just because the numbers change. (Even if it's not currently fine, it doesn't need to jump the queue.)

But what about all of those people that took I-55 -> I-294 -> I-94 -> US-41??  They're all going to take I-55 the entire way now!!   :wow:

For us here in the Oshkosh/Appleton/Green Bay, WI area, the route number order is usually 'I-55 -> I-39 -> WI 26 -> US 41'.

:jumping:

Mike
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: triplemultiplex on February 27, 2012, 06:05:01 PM
So WisDOT is betting on 55?  Hmm.  My preferred option has always been 41 as I've said before.  Extending a Chicagoland interstate puts it out of sequence and that always rubs me wrong.  At least it would be rooted in the grid.
And I can understand picking 55 over 57 because of that whole x5 emphasis the grid uses.  55 is what should've been the number for the original Milwaukee-Green Bay interstate.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi113.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn208%2Ftriplemultiplex%2FHighway%2520System%2FUSChicagolandcap.jpg%3Ft%3D1330382712&hash=8139575c3561f635c618b2ada6ab2d2c62316896)
(Sorry to get fictional, but visual aids are great.  That's not a proposed renumbering scheme, but the numbering system I would've used from the beginning; renumbering that much highway is just unreasonable.  I'll be happy to discuss this image further in the fictional subforum.)

Mike, did you discuss with anyone the possible fate of I-894?  Regardless of the number we get, it seems logical to eliminate 894 as it would create a useless duplex with the new interstate.  But I'm just speculating; does WisDOT see that happening?

I think all the verbiage on WisDOT's site has I-43 as the northern terminus, but was there any mention of taking the new interstate to Abrams right away?  That split is major enough for an interstate terminus in my mind.

Finally, was there any display about the WI 144 interchange in Slinger?  It's up for reconstruction next year, I believe, and is the last paleo-interchange left on the interstate corridor. It seems to me like they have room to eliminate the loop ramp and turn it into a straight-up diamond.  Just curious.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: kharvey10 on February 28, 2012, 02:41:35 AM
I recalled in early 80s that IDiOT told WisDOT off about extending 43 into IL on that US 51 freeway that was under construction at the time.  They also told them to shove it on I-57 back in the 70s.  WisDOT should go right after IDiOT and pursue 57 or 55, I see 57 the better choice - IDiOT and ITHA is actually getting off their butts in building that interchange with 294.  Chicagoland locals don't refer any of the main expressway/tollway by number anyway - except for 57.  The trucking industry sees I-57 as basically I-55 ALT anyway, there are places on I-57 south of Chicago that at least 30% of traffic is trucks.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: mgk920 on February 28, 2012, 02:45:33 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 27, 2012, 06:05:01 PM
So WisDOT is betting on 55?  Hmm.  My preferred option has always been 41 as I've said before.  Extending a Chicagoland interstate puts it out of sequence and that always rubs me wrong.  At least it would be rooted in the grid.
And I can understand picking 55 over 57 because of that whole x5 emphasis the grid uses.  55 is what should've been the number for the original Milwaukee-Green Bay interstate.

Mike, did you discuss with anyone the possible fate of I-894?  Regardless of the number we get, it seems logical to eliminate 894 as it would create a useless duplex with the new interstate.  But I'm just speculating; does WisDOT see that happening?

I think all the verbiage on WisDOT's site has I-43 as the northern terminus, but was there any mention of taking the new interstate to Abrams right away?  That split is major enough for an interstate terminus in my mind.

Finally, was there any display about the WI 144 interchange in Slinger?  It's up for reconstruction next year, I believe, and is the last paleo-interchange left on the interstate corridor. It seems to me like they have room to eliminate the loop ramp and turn it into a straight-up diamond.  Just curious.

I did not ask anything about I-894 or anything else south of the Oshkosh area, as that is not in the area covered by the Green Bay WisDOT office.  I would safely assume that I-894 will likely go 'bye-bye' when the US 41 promotion happens.  One additional idea that I heard chatter on a few years back would also reroute I-94 to replace what is now I-894, with the I-94 East-West freeway east of the Zoo Interchange then becoming I-794 (the North-South Freeway part of I-94 would reduced to just I-43 in that case), and idea that, IMHO, has some merit.

BTW, as I mentioned elsewhere, the original working number for what ultimately became I-43 was 'I-57' and it was to closely follow WI 57 between Milwaukee and Green Bay.

I am aware of plans to re-engineer the US 41/WI 144 interchange, but it too is not in the area covered by the Green Bay WisDOT office.  I am also aware of no near-term plans to extend interstate numbering north of the Howard interchange (US 41/I-43 in northwest Green Bay), although it might well someday happen (I am not losing any sleep on that one).

-One more item that I forgot to mention earlier, as a part of the upgrade project, WisDOT will be installing permanent 'weigh in motion' scales on US 41 on the Oshkosh Causeway, with the State Patrol (motor carrier enforcement section) having primary access to it.

Mike
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: mgk920 on February 28, 2012, 02:49:13 AM
Quote from: kharvey10 on February 28, 2012, 02:41:35 AM
I recalled in early 80s that IDiOT told WisDOT off about extending 43 into IL on that US 51 freeway that was under construction at the time.  They also told them to shove it on I-57 back in the 70s.  WisDOT should go right after IDiOT and pursue 57 or 55, I see 57 the better choice - IDiOT and ITHA is actually getting off their butts in building that interchange with 294.  Chicagoland locals don't refer any of the main expressway/tollway by number anyway - except for 57.  The trucking industry sees I-57 as basically I-55 ALT anyway, there are places on I-57 south of Chicago that at least 30% of traffic is trucks.

In a somewhat joking manner, I suggested to the WisDOT guys that they simply mark whatever the number is to the state line and let ID(i)OT and the ISTHA worry about their side.  Recall that WisDOT marked I-39 to the Illinois state line several years before Illinois did their side.

Mike
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: kharvey10 on February 28, 2012, 03:23:21 AM
Not only that, those bastards also had to redo the Cherry Valley area of I-39 to get rid of a mainline loop ramp (that predated I-39) and the infamous exact change toll plaza.  I-39 still has a single lane mainline at US 20 but the traffic delays don't compare to those days the toll booth was still in operation.  Those locals in Wisconsin started referring the concurrency as the 39/90 in the relatively short time its been signed.

WisDOT should just use 57, as 55 got that functionally obsolete junctions with both 294 and 90/94; simply ignore both IDiOT and ITHA anyway as they're both state agencies in a very corrupt state.  The more $$$ that WisDOT extracts from IDiOT the better. it just means less $$$ they can spend on their so called pipe dream list around Chicagoland.  WisDOT isn't the first state that extracted money from IDiOT in this manner - MoDOT pulled it off in 1987 with I-64 - the locals simply blew it off but IDiOT was forced to replace all the signage for a 4 mile section of I-55/70.

Down here, MoDOT has taken some heat in the past but the locals are pretty much pissed off with IDiOT.  Its a long story and off-topic for this.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: SSOWorld on February 28, 2012, 04:23:05 PM
If they use I-57, they could re-align US-41 to replace it ;)

Same with WIS 55, but then you'd still have some from Appleton northward.

But AASTHO has a rule against demoting US Routes from freeways.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: GeekJedi on March 01, 2012, 07:20:38 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 26, 2012, 01:19:38 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on February 25, 2012, 11:41:32 PM
Quote from: NE2 on February 24, 2012, 09:06:00 AM
Changing numbers doesn't change traffic flow. If the interchange is fine currently, it doesn't need reconfiguration just because the numbers change. (Even if it's not currently fine, it doesn't need to jump the queue.)

But what about all of those people that took I-55 -> I-294 -> I-94 -> US-41??  They're all going to take I-55 the entire way now!!   :wow:

For us here in the Oshkosh/Appleton/Green Bay, WI area, the route number order is usually 'I-55 -> I-39 -> WI 26 -> US 41'.

:jumping:

Mike

Wouldn't that be I-55 -> I-39 -> US 151 -> WI 26 -> US 41?  I did take that route when I lived in Dekalb, IL and drove to Neenah.  However when I moved closer to Chicago, I always went up the Tri-State to I-94.  Of course, now that I'm back in SEWI, it's often WI 83 -> WI 175 -> US 151 -> US 41, always pausing to honor the memory of the WI 175/WI 33 "interchange" and the WI-175/US 41 "rotary". :)
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: mgk920 on March 01, 2012, 08:08:21 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on March 01, 2012, 07:20:38 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 26, 2012, 01:19:38 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on February 25, 2012, 11:41:32 PM
Quote from: NE2 on February 24, 2012, 09:06:00 AM
Changing numbers doesn't change traffic flow. If the interchange is fine currently, it doesn't need reconfiguration just because the numbers change. (Even if it's not currently fine, it doesn't need to jump the queue.)

But what about all of those people that took I-55 -> I-294 -> I-94 -> US-41??  They're all going to take I-55 the entire way now!!   :wow:

For us here in the Oshkosh/Appleton/Green Bay, WI area, the route number order is usually 'I-55 -> I-39 -> WI 26 -> US 41'.

:jumping:

Mike

Wouldn't that be I-55 -> I-39 -> US 151 -> WI 26 -> US 41?  I did take that route when I lived in Dekalb, IL and drove to Neenah.  However when I moved closer to Chicago, I always went up the Tri-State to I-94.  Of course, now that I'm back in SEWI, it's often WI 83 -> WI 175 -> US 151 -> US 41, always pausing to honor the memory of the WI 175/WI 33 "interchange" and the WI-175/US 41 "rotary". :)

No, I-39 -> WI 26 at Janesville (with a short diversion on US 151 at Waupun) -> US 41 at Oshkosh.  The entire length of WI 26 is a pretty active truck route, except that as WI 26 is laid out right now, they'll often use US 151 and County 'A' between Waupun and a point on WI 26 between WI 16/60 and Juneau.

Mike
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: GeekJedi on March 01, 2012, 08:50:28 PM
My bad.  I forgot that 26 and 39 met up in Janesville (I still have a mental block with that whole 39/90 thing.  Sort of the way I still occasionally lose my grip with reality and refer to the Rock Freeway as "Highway 15"!). With the Jeff bypass (and soon Watertown) I could absolutely see that as the way to go!
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: SEWIGuy on March 02, 2012, 10:52:31 AM
And starting this year, the construction of a Milton bypass and four-laning up to Fort Atkinson.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: mgk920 on March 22, 2012, 01:27:39 PM
A week or so ago, as I was driving southwards towards Neenah, I noticed a crew taking soil boring samples from the green area between the SB US 41 mainline lanes and the C/D lanes where the long-planned EB US 10 to NB US 41 'missing move' free-flow ramp is expected to go in the US 10/41/WI 441 'Bridgeview' Interchange, whenever its planned upgrades are built.

Mike
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: triplemultiplex on March 22, 2012, 06:09:23 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on March 22, 2012, 01:27:39 PM
A week or so ago, as I was driving southwards towards Neenah, I noticed a crew taking soil boring samples from the green area between the SB US 41 mainline lanes and the C/D lanes where the long-planned EB US 10 to NB US 41 'missing move' free-flow ramp is expected to go in the US 10/41/WI 441 'Bridgeview' Interchange, whenever its planned upgrades are built.

I bet they found in order of increasing depth:
clay
sandy, carbonate-rich glacial till
limestone

That's Ordovician bedrock overrun by Pleistocene glaciers with a brief time under the waters of Glacial Lake Oshkosh.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.uwgb.edu%2Fdutchs%2FGeologyWisconsin%2Fgeohist%2Fwi12ka.gif&hash=70ca3bb09a842b040c69f81eebe032f9d0eebf07)
(Wisconsin c. 12,000 years ago)
Geology is cool.
Title: The Northwestern: US 41 to become interstate by 2014
Post by: GeekJedi on May 03, 2012, 12:37:13 PM
The thing that caught my eye was this:

"DOT officials said Highway 41 is not likely to be given its own interstate number, but would instead designated as a spur or beltway addition to an existing highway, which would be identified by a three-digit number."

http://www.thenorthwestern.com/article/20120503/OSH0101/305030084/Highway-41-become-interstate-by-2014 (http://www.thenorthwestern.com/article/20120503/OSH0101/305030084/Highway-41-become-interstate-by-2014)
Title: Re: The Northwestern: US 41 to become interstate by 2014
Post by: Alps on May 03, 2012, 07:02:00 PM
Saw that article over lunch. I played around with the idea that it would likely become an even x43 based on its location, maybe 243. Would 441 then become I-443? How about some of the other longer freeways like US 45 and 10, would Wisconsin seek Interstate designations for any of those? And finally, what becomes of I-894 now that its western leg becomes another concurrency - does it remain an entirely overlapped route?
Title: Re: The Northwestern: US 41 to become interstate by 2014
Post by: triplemultiplex on May 03, 2012, 07:56:06 PM
Really hope the 3di is not what we get.  That is the least palatable of the numbering options that have been tossed around, in my opinion.  What are they going to do?  Create an X43 that's only like 50 miles shorter than the parent?  That's stupid.

Frickin' I-41 is available and fits the grid in this part of the country.  Screw that same number bullshit and toss US 41 in the dustbin between Illinois and Green Bay.  It's the most sensible option to me.
Title: Re: The Northwestern: US 41 to become interstate by 2014
Post by: JREwing78 on May 03, 2012, 08:58:00 PM
Ugh! A 3-digit interstate would largely defeat the purpose of the interstate upgrade! If the Portage to Wausau stretch of US-51 merited a 2-digit interstate number, why the hell doesn't US-41?
Title: Re: The Northwestern: US 41 to become interstate by 2014
Post by: mgk920 on May 03, 2012, 09:51:58 PM
Quote from: JREwing78 on May 03, 2012, 08:58:00 PM
Ugh! A 3-digit interstate would largely defeat the purpose of the interstate upgrade! If the Portage to Wausau stretch of US-51 merited a 2-digit interstate number, why the hell doesn't US-41?

I think that I'll stand by what the WisDOT guys directly told me a few weeks ago and not put as much credence in what a non-roadgeek reporter says that they told him, especially one of today's breed.

BTW, the same article ran in today's Appleton Post-Crescent.

Mike
Title: Re: The Northwestern: US 41 to become interstate by 2014
Post by: DaBigE on May 04, 2012, 03:02:54 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 03, 2012, 07:56:06 PM
Really hope the 3di is not what we get.  That is the least palatable of the numbering options that have been tossed around, in my opinion.  What are they going to do?  Create an X43 that's only like 50 miles shorter than the parent?  That's stupid.

Frickin' I-41 is available and fits the grid in this part of the country.  Screw that same number bullshit and toss US 41 in the dustbin between Illinois and Green Bay.  It's the most sensible option to me.

I couldn't agree more.  Besides, the average driver won't care if there's both a US 41 and an IH 41.  Hell, if I had a nickel for every time I've heard someone "mistakenly" call it I-41 (or even I-45 for that matter), I could purchased a tank of gas.
Title: Re: The Northwestern: US 41 to become interstate by 2014
Post by: ARMOURERERIC on May 04, 2012, 12:51:09 PM
I wish they could get IL and DC to reroute 55 at Bloomington along 39 and drop 39 completely to it's terminus, make 43 from Beliot to Milwaukee to Appleton to GB a northern 59, make Milwaukee to GB-61 or 63
Title: Re: The Northwestern: US 41 to become interstate by 2014
Post by: NE2 on May 04, 2012, 01:02:24 PM
I wish they could get people to post fiction in the fictional forum.
Title: Re: The Northwestern: US 41 to become interstate by 2014
Post by: Brandon on May 04, 2012, 06:48:12 PM
Quote from: ARMOURERERIC on May 04, 2012, 12:51:09 PM
I wish they could get IL and DC to reroute 55 at Bloomington along 39 and drop 39 completely to it's terminus, make 43 from Beliot to Milwaukee to Appleton to GB a northern 59, make Milwaukee to GB-61 or 63

Not gonna happen.  I-55 is a major route (I-x5), and Chicago is a major city.
Title: Re: The Northwestern: US 41 to become interstate by 2014
Post by: Alps on May 04, 2012, 06:48:18 PM
For mgk920, who seems to have connections, I re-pose my question as a multiple choice:

a) Are there plans to make WI 441 or any other freeways connecting to the US 41 corridor into their own 3-digit Interstates?
b) Has the topic simply not been discussed yet, but not been ruled out?
c) Does WisDOT have no Interstate intention beyond US 41 itself?
Title: Re: The Northwestern: US 41 to become interstate by 2014
Post by: mgk920 on May 04, 2012, 08:42:33 PM
Quote from: Steve on May 04, 2012, 06:48:18 PM
For mgk920, who seems to have connections, I re-pose my question as a multiple choice:

a) Are there plans to make WI 441 or any other freeways connecting to the US 41 corridor into their own 3-digit Interstates?
b) Has the topic simply not been discussed yet, but not been ruled out?
c) Does WisDOT have no Interstate intention beyond US 41 itself?

a & b)  I am unaware of any immediate plans - however such a 'promotion' would not surprise me, but not right away.  Remember that the part of the US 10/WI 441 freeway that is in Winnebago County (east of US 41 to where US 10 hops off at Oneida St) is not up to full interstate standards.  It has several substandard radius curves, several closely-spaced interchanges and no shoulders on the bridge over Little Lake Butte des Morts (French - 'Hill of the Dead', named for the Indian effigy/burial mounds that were found in the area by early explorers).  WisDOT has *firm* plans to upgrade the Winnebago County part to be a fully interstate-compatible six lanes (a parallel bridge, broaden the 'S' curves, complete and upgrade the interchange at US 41, etc), waiting on funding.

This freeway will certainly be on the tour for any meet that takes place here in the Appleton area (right now, I'm shooting for the weekend of 3-5 August).

c)  I have heard of no other 'official' interest in seeking interstate promotion for any other freeways and/or near-freeways anywhere in the state, including in the US 41 corridor, other than for that short section of combined US 51/WI 29 in the Wausau area (proposed to be promoted to become 'I-39', which has not yet happened).  WisDOT is not an agency that likes to go out and try to put those snazzy signs on roads just for the sake of putting up snazzy signs, even if the roads are fully up to standard and 'promoting' them would otherwise make sense from a mapping and navigation standpoint, without a very good reason.

Mike
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: Fox 11 News on May 06, 2012, 01:20:13 AM
The DOT and other agencies held a news conference this week regarding the weight limits on U.S. 41 for after it goes to interstate status.

Here's the story:
http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/fox_cities/trucks-need-weight-waiver-when-41-becomes-interstate

Here's the excerpt about the number designation.

"And once the road is designated an interstate highway, what number will it be? The DOT says several options are on the table right now.

A spokesperson says naming it Interstate 41 is unlikely. The DOT wants to avoid confusion since parts of 41 will remain a U.S. Highway.

"Some other numbers we are looking at are three digit numbers which would be a loop of ighway 43 or a spur of highway 94, so we are looking at all the different numbers and the opportunities," said Tammy Rabe, of the state DOT.
     
That could make the highway's designation as I-243 or an extension of I-894, although the DOT would not confirm either number as among the possibilities.

Public input sessions on the interstate designation will be held in the coming weeks. Officials say they hope to start putting the new signs up by the summer of 2014."
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: hobsini2 on May 06, 2012, 05:38:58 AM
If it is to be I-243, then Wisconsin has another duplication something that the DOT frowns upon. WI 243 currently is a bridge connection over the St Croix River at Osceola. I still see no reason why US 41 and I-41 could not coexist with US 41 being moved onto WI 175 between Milwaukee and just south of Oshkosh like it originally was prior to the freeway. US 51 south of Portage for all but 5 miles is not on I-39/90. Hell i would even swallow the bullet and take I-57 up from Chicago (not I-55 though) and have WI 57 become a new number say my newly freed up WI 175.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: mgk920 on May 06, 2012, 12:14:43 PM
Amazing, has a legitimate news agency ever joined a roadgeek discussion forvm before ('Fox 11 News' - WLUK-TV, channel 11 in Green Bay, WI http://www.fox11online.com/ )?

:wow:

Anyways, there is a lot that can be read into the 'will not get a number of its own' statement from WisDOT.  Recall that a few years ago, WisDOT submitted a 'suggestion' list of four potential route numbers to AASHTO (the 'American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials', keeper of the standards and holder of the registered federal trademark on the snazzy interstate highway sign shield design) for US 41's pending interstate promotion - '41', '55', '57' and '243'.  Two of them, '55' and '57', would be extensions of already-existing cross-country interstate highway routes, both of which now end in the City of Chicago.

I can see much merit in either of those two numbers as US 41 is a well-used cross-country highway, not a local loop or spur freeway, and, IMHO, is well deserving of a two-digit I-route number.  Also, either one will give the very confusing I-94 south of Milwaukee a proper north-south route number (the north-south Chicago-Milwaukee I-94 highway is signed as being 'east-west' with 'westbound' being towards Milwaukee - yes, it is confusing as all get-go for those not familiar with the road).  Either will also make navigating the 'best' routing around Milwaukee for traffic transiting between Chicagoland and the Fox Valley (FdL, Oshkosh, Appleton, etc) as right now, that corridor, I-94/US 41 <-> I-43/894 <-> I-894/US 45 <-> US 45 <-> US 41, has no single route number - even though US 41 is on it at either end.  Again, it is majorly confusing for those not familiar with those roads.

In my conversations with Kim Rudat from WisDOT's Green Bay office a couple of months ago, he also said that the number '41' was pretty much out of contention and seemed must 'bullish' on it ultimately being '55'.

We shall see.

:nod:

Mike
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: NE2 on May 06, 2012, 12:38:15 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on May 06, 2012, 12:14:43 PM
a legitimate news agency
Fox? Nope.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: SEWIGuy on May 06, 2012, 12:54:43 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on May 06, 2012, 05:38:58 AM
If it is to be I-243, then Wisconsin has another duplication something that the DOT frowns upon. WI 243 currently is a bridge connection over the St Croix River at Osceola. I still see no reason why US 41 and I-41 could not coexist with US 41 being moved onto WI 175 between Milwaukee and just south of Oshkosh like it originally was prior to the freeway. US 51 south of Portage for all but 5 miles is not on I-39/90. Hell i would even swallow the bullet and take I-57 up from Chicago (not I-55 though) and have WI 57 become a new number say my newly freed up WI 175.


Wisconsin deals with duplications already.  WI-39 and I-39 are currently in existence, but nowhere near one another.

They should simply sign it I-41... extend WI-175 south along US-41 in Milwaukee...and eliminate US-41 between Waukegan and the end of I-41...US-41 then reappears.

Sometimes I think DOTs out-think themselves.  It will still be "highway 41," it will just have different color signs.  I-243, 894 or 194 would just be silly.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: mgk920 on May 06, 2012, 01:30:23 PM
Quote from: NE2 on May 06, 2012, 12:38:15 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on May 06, 2012, 12:14:43 PM
a legitimate news agency
Fox? Nope.

Do you have anything else that you can add to the conversation?

:rolleyes:

Mike
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: mukade on May 06, 2012, 01:31:54 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on May 06, 2012, 12:14:43 PM
In my conversations with Kim Rudat from WisDOT's Green Bay office a couple of months ago, he also said that the number '41' was pretty much out of contention and seemed must 'bullish' on it ultimately being '55'.

I can definitely see how I-41 is out as it would be very confusing, but I-55 is a strange choice other than it is an I-x5. Let's say I lived in Chicago and wanted to go to St. Louis, Kanasas City, Oklahoma City, or Dallas. I would take I-55 south and ultimately end up where I wanted to go. If I lived in Milwaukee, on the other hand, I would most likely take I-43 to I-39 to I-55 because I would want to avoid Chicago.

So to me, a continuing route number should carry a significant amount of traffic between its key points. In addition to the silly 100 mile north-south section of I-94, it also bugs me because I doubt that many people going from Detroit to Minneapolis (or even Chicago to Minneapolis) would take I-94 - there are better routes. So why have this indirect route carry the same number?

So in that sense, the I-57 designation makes sense because people in Wisconsin going south to Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, etc. could take I-57 to I-55 or I-24. But remember - there are three N-S Interstates ending in Chicago. I still maintain that I-65 would have also made sense as a potential alternative. It can take you to most of the same major destinations down south, but also is the logical route to Indy, Louisville, Cincy, Columbus, Washington DC, Baltimore, and the Carolinas. Like I-57, but unlike I-55, it has high speed interchanges where it meets I-94 and where the Kingery splits off to the Bishop Ford. The interchanges with I-55 (whether on the Dan Ryan or the Tri-State) are substandard. Yes, that could change, but the fact remains that most people in Wisconsin have a much more convenient alternative to go to points southwest.

I wonder if studies have been made to study destinations of people from Wisconsin driving south of Chicago. Whichever existing Interstate route carries the highest number should be the designation of the US 41 upgrade, IMO. I would put my bet on either I-57 or I-65 to be that route. Something like that would take the subjectivity out of it.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: Fox 11 News on May 07, 2012, 02:06:38 PM
Quote from: NE2 on May 06, 2012, 12:38:15 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on May 06, 2012, 12:14:43 PM
a legitimate news agency
Fox? Nope.

WLUK-TV is a local affiliate. We are owned by LIN Media, based on Providence, R.I. If you ever travel to Wisconsin from Florida, I hope you check us out and watch before making any judgments. Thanks.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: texaskdog on May 07, 2012, 02:15:57 PM
Yeah I'd end 94 in Milwaukee and extend 55 north to Green Bay
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: NE2 on May 07, 2012, 02:23:20 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on May 07, 2012, 02:15:57 PM
Yeah I'd end 94 in Milwaukee and extend 55 north to Green Bay
And do what in Michigan?
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: hobsini2 on May 07, 2012, 07:07:27 PM
Quote from: NE2 on May 07, 2012, 02:23:20 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on May 07, 2012, 02:15:57 PM
Yeah I'd end 94 in Milwaukee and extend 55 north to Green Bay
And do what in Michigan?
Not to mention the mess that would be created by moving 94 or 55 out of their current alignment in Chicago. 57 makes the most sense because there would not be a stub freeway between Tri-State or Ryan to Lake Shore Dr.
I could see 65 being used since the general direction between Appleton and Louisville is SSE.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: Alps on May 07, 2012, 08:41:58 PM
Quote from: Fox 11 News on May 07, 2012, 02:06:38 PM
Quote from: NE2 on May 06, 2012, 12:38:15 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on May 06, 2012, 12:14:43 PM
a legitimate news agency
Fox? Nope.

WLUK-TV is a local affiliate. We are owned by LIN Media, based on Providence, R.I. If you ever travel to Wisconsin from Florida, I hope you check us out and watch before making any judgments. Thanks.

Pwned. This is why public relations is a profession. Well played.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: Alps on May 07, 2012, 08:42:47 PM
Quote from: NE2 on May 07, 2012, 02:23:20 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on May 07, 2012, 02:15:57 PM
Yeah I'd end 94 in Milwaukee and extend 55 north to Green Bay
And do what in Michigan?
I-92 the way it was originally proposed.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: triplemultiplex on May 08, 2012, 03:25:58 PM
Well good to hear you locals are still confident it'll be a 2di.  That's good news, but I'm disappointed they're pussing out on I-41.
You know, I wish they had figured out this number stuff before they started the huge reconstruction projects in Oshkosh and Green Bay.  That way they could've made all the signs right away, even if they'd spend a couple years with the interstate shields covered up.

If we do get 55, I see no need to do anything to the interchange with 90/94 in Chicago (well not because of different shields).  That ain't going to change any traffic flow if 55 has to exit off itself to continue north.  In Chicago, any numbering changes aren't really going to affect traffic patterns.  And the stub to Lake Shore Drive can become an X55 no problem.

Came through Oshkosh again last weekend (fishing opener) and crews seemed to have brushed off the week's earlier deluge and were getting ready to do a lot of slip-form paving.  All the NB stuff looks ready for concrete around the US 45 interchange.  I'm getting antsy for this beauty to open up:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi113.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn208%2Ftriplemultiplex%2FOshkosh%2520US%252041%2520pics%2FIMG_1751.jpg%3Ft%3D1336503903&hash=ad975b8e77167c009f31b497304488e5cf15454b)
(NB US 41 -> NB US 45 flyover)

On the way back south Monday, crews were unloading slip-form pavers on the Lake Butte des Mortes Causeway and the bridges looked pretty much done so I imagine they'll be shuffling traffic around between new and old bridges there in a few weeks.

US 41 traffic is using temporary bypass lanes at WI 21 while they rebuild that interchange.  This is one where the freeway used to go over the surface street, but they're switching it so it goes under.  This was also done at US 45.  The posted detour for WI 21 has you get off at WI 44/91 while locals and knowledgeable out-of-towners could make a faster detour exiting at 9th Street and using local roads.
This will be the third interchange with a quartet of roundabouts on the surface street, if you've been following that roundabout thread. :)
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: on_wisconsin on May 08, 2012, 05:44:58 PM
^ nice pic
The state just released some prelim interchange layouts for the upcoming WIS 441 rebuild:
http://www.dot.wi.gov/projects/d3/wis441/alternatives.htm
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: DaBigE on May 08, 2012, 05:56:45 PM
WisDOT just announced a round public meetings for the US-41 conversion:

QuoteWisDOT has scheduled six public information meetings. Each will be held from 5 to 6:30 p.m., with a brief presentation at 5:15 p.m., followed by an open house format where WisDOT representatives will be available to discuss the project on an individual basis. The public information meetings will be held at the following locations:

-Wednesday, May 16, at the Brown County Public Library in downtown Green Bay
    515 Pine Street, Green Bay (Auditorium)
-Thursday, May 17, at Fox Valley Technical College in Appleton
    1825 N. Bluemound Drive, Appleton (Entrance #16 - Room A-170)
-Tuesday, May 22, at Fox Valley Technical College Riverside Campus in Oshkosh
    150 N. Campbell Road, Oshkosh (Conference Center Room 133)
-Wednesday, May 23, at Fond du Lac Public Library
    32 Sheboygan Street, Fond du Lac (McLane Room)
-Wednesday, May 30, at the Germantown Public Library
    N112 W16957 Mequon Road, Germantown (Meeting Room)
-Thursday, May 31, at the Wauwatosa Public Library
    7635 West North Avenue, Wauwatosa (Firefly room)

Full Press Release: http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/opencms/export/nr/modules/news/news_3328.html_786229440.html (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/opencms/export/nr/modules/news/news_3328.html_786229440.html)
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: kphoger on May 08, 2012, 07:12:33 PM
You know you're a roadgeek if.....you ponder the little white number on the little blue sign more than the actual highway itself.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: agentsteel53 on May 08, 2012, 07:21:33 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 08, 2012, 07:12:33 PM
You know you're a roadgeek if.....you ponder the little white number on the little blue sign more than the actual highway itself.

what's the little white number on the little blue sign?  here in California it identifies the motorist call box by postmile from the county line, multipled by 10.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: kphoger on May 08, 2012, 07:36:27 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on May 08, 2012, 07:21:33 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 08, 2012, 07:12:33 PM
You know you're a roadgeek if.....you ponder the little white number on the little blue sign more than the actual highway itself.

what's the little white number on the little blue sign?  here in California it identifies the motorist call box by postmile from the county line, multipled by 10.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.wikia.com%2Fexpressways%2Fimages%2Fe%2Feb%2FI-55.png&hash=447ad12477a2987b6d5deb1f6a0ae5f7321f1cb0)!  :bigass:
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: agentsteel53 on May 08, 2012, 07:38:16 PM
oh, that's the big white number!
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: mgk920 on May 08, 2012, 07:53:04 PM
Quote from: on_wisconsin on May 08, 2012, 05:44:58 PM
^ nice pic
The state just released some prelim interchange layouts for the upcoming WIS 441 rebuild:
http://www.dot.wi.gov/projects/d3/wis441/alternatives.htm

Most of that is similar or identical to what I have already seen.  BTW, the US 10/41/WI 441 interchange is often referred to as the 'Bridgeview' interchange.

Also, crews poured concrete on NB US 41 at US 45/Algoma in Oshkosh a couple of weeks ago already.

Mike
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: mukade on May 08, 2012, 09:00:19 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 08, 2012, 03:25:58 PM
If we do get 55, I see no need to do anything to the interchange with 90/94 in Chicago (well not because of different shields).  That ain't going to change any traffic flow if 55 has to exit off itself to continue north.  In Chicago, any numbering changes aren't really going to affect traffic patterns.  And the stub to Lake Shore Drive can become an X55 no problem.

I agree that is the easy part and would not affect Chicago drivers. I-55 does not seem to match traffic long-distance patterns, and there already is an Interstate alternative to the southwest. It seems more like a connect the dots routing just like I-94 is. If it did become I-55, it also would leave more than 20 miles of north-south I-94 that isn't counterbalanced with an odd-numbered route.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: Alex on May 09, 2012, 12:38:17 PM
My bet is that I-894 is extended northward. It does not create a new designation, which DOT's seem to scoff at these days, and the precedent for such an extension already took place successfully with I-476 over PA 9 in 1996.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: hobsini2 on May 12, 2012, 02:16:07 PM
Quote from: Alex on May 09, 2012, 12:38:17 PM
My bet is that I-894 is extended northward. It does not create a new designation, which DOT's seem to scoff at these days, and the precedent for such an extension already took place successfully with I-476 over PA 9 in 1996.
While that maybe true Alex, 3dis should not be over 100 miles long. If 894 was to be the number, that would make it 140 miles.

Begrudgingly, I would rather see 55 moved onto 41 and 94 than 894. I still think the LOGICAL number would be 57 or 65. Cross country traffic patterns be damned.
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: GeekJedi on May 14, 2012, 12:38:47 PM
Here's another article about it in the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinal:

http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/meetings-planned-for-highway-41-interstate-conversion-ke5cseg-151325935.htm (http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/meetings-planned-for-highway-41-interstate-conversion-ke5cseg-151325935.htm)
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: mgk920 on May 14, 2012, 12:56:38 PM
Quote from: Alex on May 09, 2012, 12:38:17 PM
My bet is that I-894 is extended northward. It does not create a new designation, which DOT's seem to scoff at these days, and the precedent for such an extension already took place successfully with I-476 over PA 9 in 1996.

Although more the realm of the 'Fantasy' part of this forvm, the NE Wisconsin cross-county '3DI' extension that I can best foresee is for once US 41 becomes, let's say, 'I-55' and WI 441 becomes, let's say, 'I-455', for such 'I-455' to ultimately be extended westward along a 'completed' US 10 freeway to end at I-39 at the future 'Plover' interchange (I-39 by County 'HH' in Plover, immediately south of Stevens Point).

But then again, this is Wisconsin.

(Mods, would it be possible to combine all of the 'US 41 in Wisconsin' threads into this one?  Thanx!  :nod: )

Mike
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: Alps on May 14, 2012, 06:54:33 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on May 14, 2012, 12:56:38 PM

(Mods, would it be possible to combine all of the 'US 41 in Wisconsin' threads into this one?  Thanx!  :nod: )


I only see this one... unless someone snuck in already
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: mgk920 on May 14, 2012, 08:48:52 PM
Quote from: Steve on May 14, 2012, 06:54:33 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on May 14, 2012, 12:56:38 PM

(Mods, would it be possible to combine all of the 'US 41 in Wisconsin' threads into this one?  Thanx!  :nod: )


I only see this one... unless someone snuck in already

There are several on the previous index pages ('US 41 upgrade report', etc).

Mike
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: on_wisconsin on May 14, 2012, 09:59:16 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on May 14, 2012, 12:56:38 PMThere are several on the previous index pages ('US 41 upgrade report', etc).
Mike

Here are a few threads found that could be merged into this one:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=350.0

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4865.0

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=5006.0
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: rawmustard on May 15, 2012, 08:17:56 AM
Quote from: on_wisconsin on May 14, 2012, 09:59:16 PM
Here are a few threads found that could be merged into this one:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=350.0

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4865.0

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=5006.0


The first link you mentioned definitely was warranted merging into this thread. The latter two are less so (especially the third which is about a specific incident, not about the US 41 upgrade in Wisconsin as a whole).
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on May 15, 2012, 04:00:14 PM
A few more tidbits - Apparently, WisDOT is interested in US 41's 'promotion' I-route number extending southward to the Illinois state line via I-94.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/meetings-planned-for-highway-41-interstate-conversion-ke5cseg-151325935.html

BTW, I'll likely be at the PIM in Green Bay.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Alps on May 15, 2012, 08:16:07 PM
Quote from: rawmustard on May 15, 2012, 08:17:56 AM
Quote from: on_wisconsin on May 14, 2012, 09:59:16 PM
Here are a few threads found that could be merged into this one:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=350.0

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4865.0

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=5006.0


The first link you mentioned definitely was warranted merging into this thread. The latter two are less so (especially the third which is about a specific incident, not about the US 41 upgrade in Wisconsin as a whole).
Looks like the first one has been merged. I'm less concerned when a thread has fallen off the first index page, because if people see a thread on their topic of interest, they're not going to keep looking back farther.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: sr641 on May 15, 2012, 08:31:21 PM
Bring on Interstate 41!
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: kphoger on May 15, 2012, 08:39:06 PM
Roads are nifty!  :biggrin:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: sr641 on May 15, 2012, 08:39:48 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 15, 2012, 08:39:06 PM
Roads are nifty!  :biggrin:

Ya!
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: NE2 on May 15, 2012, 08:57:07 PM
Broads are thrifty!
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on May 16, 2012, 03:13:30 PM
I've been reading this thread for quite some time, and am looking forward to when US41 will finally become I-??. I apologize that you've probably heard all of this before--and read it--but being new to this site, well blogging in general, and being a budding roadgeek myself, I hope you all understand.

That being said...

That i know of, and can confirm through local newspapers and DOT documents, the numbers, as you all are aware, are 55, 57, 41, 65 and 243. IMHO, 243 would just be a slap in the face of the whole reason they're upgrading it to an I route in the first place. The reasoning behind it being economic development and what not, a "spur" interstate will not do that. Simply put. It just doesn't have the same power (for lack of better words) that a main 2di route would, i.e. 57. Not to mention something I'd read a few pages back, about less driver confusion only having to follow one number from Chicago to NE Wisconsin.

Rather than get into fictional ideas, realistically speaking let's assume they agree and throw out the 243 option (or any other one being a 3di), because you have auxiliary routes like WIS 441 in Appleton, WIS 172 in Green Bay and US 45 coming out of Oshkosh -as well as from Richfield split in the Milwaukee area to West Bend, that could all, in theory, eventually become spurs/3di's off of the main route, current US 41. And AFAIK, you can't have a spur off a spur--correct me if i'm wrong. Strictly looking at maps, as I am located in the Fond du Lac, WI area, it seems as though 55 does not seem likely. I know from experience that when I'm traveling anywhere where I have to go thru Chicago, I take 43 to 39 @ Beloit just to avoid the Chicago traffic. While it is a mainline, it may not be so realistic. 57? Definitely seems more feasable, it even looks like it would flow nicely from its current terminus, and just shoot up the Dan Ryan/Kennedy Expy (again, strictly looking at a map as i don't get to chicago often) I-65...that seems, to me at least, IMO, to be the better option, because 65 will take you all the way down south, whereas 57 will only take you midway between St. Louis and Memphis, roughly. A good Regional Freeway, no question. But it'd make more sense, if we're trying to encourage economic mobility, that we'd want to give the impression that we're moving things transcontinent. You think I65 you think "OK I'm going to Indy. I'm going to Louisville. Nashville. Birmingham. Ultimately, Mobile (and the Gulf). With 57, you'd be thinking "I've got Chicago...and...the rest of Illinois (my apologies if this offends, I merely phrase it like that to make a point. I know and am related to plenty of those "other Illinoisans"...my relation live in Minooka and refuse to acknowledge it as Chicago.)

I haven't quite looked enough at the map setup with I-65 from its current terminus to see if on map it would work to extend that designation through the Chicago area, but doesn't it make sense? It would also give I-65 more of a Chicago freeway feel (again, for lack of better words). I 65 ends, how many miles away from the Loop? Chicagoans, do you have a name for I 65 i.e. Kingery, Dan Ryan? If they extend 65 thru Chicago and up to Green Bay, I suppose there'd have to be one (not sure how the naming system works down there), but it would feel more like a route that would take you to Chicago, not just the outlying suburbs. I guess the only hurdle would be for WISDOT and the governing powers that be to cooperate not only with IDOT but Indiana's DOT (do you have a "cool" name like us in WI and IL in IN?) to accomplish. But, in my opinion, I believe that to be the best option. One further addition is that 55, 57, 65 and even 243 are all WIS state highways... at least, though, 65 is on the opposite end of the state whereas 55 and 57 are right in the heart of the designated route. Not even bothering with 243. IMO dumb idea. Just saying.

Once again i apologize for my wordy case for I-65. I assure you that any future posts will not be quite this long.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on May 16, 2012, 04:43:40 PM
The only real major upgrade that would be needed to use '65' would be at its terminus at I-90 - direct full-speed free-flow ramps, instead of the many circles of existing tight loop curves, between I-65 to the south and I-90 (Indiana Toll Road) to the west.  The ROW is there, all that's needed is the desire and the few millions of dollars of cash required to do the work.

Heck, I'd almost reroute I-94 to follow the Toll Road and Skyway instead of the Borman/Kingery/Bishop Ford/(south) Dan Ryan along with it.

See:
http://maps.google.com/?ll=41.648801,-87.454605&spn=0.295022,0.441513&t=m&z=11

and

http://maps.google.com/?ll=41.59054,-87.303543&spn=0.018456,0.027595&t=k&z=15

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mukade on May 16, 2012, 05:13:51 PM
That is an interesting idea for I-94 that makes a lot of sense when/if they fix that substandard I-94/Toll Road interchange, but for I-65 to work, it would have to follow the Borman and Bishop Ford. The I-65/Borman interchange was recently rebuilt and is high speed/high volume as is the Kingery/Bishop Ford interchange. There would need to be an I-165 or something, but that is minor. Getting 65 on the entire north-south section of 94 would allow it to finally correctly be designated as a north-south route. The Borman/Kingery would have an east-west I-65 that is balanced by I-80 (and I-94 for now at least).

For Wisconsin, it would give it an I-x5 highway. On the negative side you would then have to get agreement with two other agencies, but I can't see that being too difficult.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Alps on May 16, 2012, 06:54:15 PM
Quote from: merrycilantro on May 16, 2012, 03:13:30 PM
And AFAIK, you can't have a spur off a spur--correct me if i'm wrong.
I-990 (NY).
I-795 (MD).
I-478, I-678, I-878 (NY).
Also look at San Jose. I'm done here.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Jordanah1 on May 16, 2012, 07:45:28 PM
Quote from: merrycilantro on May 16, 2012, 03:13:30 PM
And AFAIK, you can't have a spur off a spur--correct me if i'm wrong.
no ones perfect, it is possible. I-370 spurs off of I-270 in the D.C. area...and there may be more...
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Takumi on May 16, 2012, 08:12:31 PM
^I-695 in DC.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: NE2 on May 16, 2012, 08:15:07 PM
I-238 in CA. It's a spur of I-238.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: JREwing78 on May 16, 2012, 08:43:16 PM
I wouldn't move I-94 off its current alignment, but routing I-65 over the Tri-State Tollway would remove the need for its current I-294 designation. And unlike the other options, it would span the entire Tollway from end to end; I-55 and I-57 couldn't do that.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on May 16, 2012, 09:15:06 PM
Quote from: Steve on May 16, 2012, 06:54:15 PM
Quote from: merrycilantro on May 16, 2012, 03:13:30 PM
And AFAIK, you can't have a spur off a spur--correct me if i'm wrong.
I-990 (NY).
I-795 (MD).
I-478, I-678, I-878 (NY).

Nice. I had no idea they even did that. Though what else makes sense, i suppose. Thanks for the info Steve & Jordanah1. In any case, these spurs off of spurs aren't close to 100+ miles long (although before I put my foot in my mouth again I will say To the Best of my Knowledge :P ), which US 41 is. It's going to serve 2 major metropolises in WI and 3 smaller metro areas in between, I'd say it deserves more than just a spur designation. But then again that's just me. Locals here just refer to it as "41" anyway, so even with the new number they'll still call it 41, even if they take the US41 designation off instead of cosigning it.

@mgk920, I see what you mean with the circles and tight loop curves referenced in your reply. I guess I never really zoomed that far in to see that. It had appeared to me that 65 flowed right into 90. I agree though that to reroute 65 onto the Borman and the Bishop Ford would be the way to go. The remainder of current I-65 north from the Borman to the Toll Road would make a decent spur (i.e. I-165). It would seem like a natural flow from Indiana into the Chicago area.

I do also like the idea of 65 taking over the Tri-state tollway. Very fitting.

I suppose it would seem (again this is strictly by looking off of Google Maps) that extending I-57 would be most cost efficient, as it appears not to affect so many roadways/interchanges. Not to mention I-43 from Milwaukee to Green Bay was supposed to be I-57 anyway. Because just as natural as the 65-80/94 flow seems, so is the flow from 57-90/94. 55 does not look like it will be easy to route it thru Chicago, and be able to maintain the major transcontinental status I understand it has. Its junctures with 355, 294 and even the Dan Ryan don't really make it look as free-flowing as 57. Although I'd like to see 65 extended, I'd place my bets on it being 57 straight thru.

It'd be easy enough to place the US41 designation onto the current WIS 57 to avoid the duplicate I-route/US designations, all the way to Green Bay. Then just designate 57 from Green Bay thru Door County via Sturgeon Bay as WIS-157, for example. Seems logical...but for the duplicate concern, i'd still have to go with I-65, as WIS 65 is far enough away.

One concern would be that WISDOT will take the "half-a**ed" approach, as they have done with US 151 in the Fond du Lac area with the bypass that was completed some years ago, and just slap I-243 signs on right next to US 41 and, as the infomercial goes, "Set it and forget it." Almost identical to what they did to US 51 with I-39. The other options have numbers in WI...so then if not 243, then 443, 643, 843. Just to save a buck. But none of the 3dis would spur economic development...it'll just be a bunch of blue signs with 3di numbers on it.

PS-I got it, there ARE such things as spurs of spurs :) Thank you all.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Stratuscaster on May 16, 2012, 09:20:55 PM
To use I-65, I don't know if I'd bother to re-route I-94 onto the IN Toll Road/Skyway - just from a users' perspective - it's familiar to people and it's been that way for a long time.

Yes, that would leave you with a triple-plex in 2 sections - 65/80/94 on the Kingery/Borman and 65/90/94 on the Ryan/Kennedy - but that's not so bad, is it?

If you have to have signs on the stretch between the Borman and the IN Toll Road, go with I-165 - I'd just as soon sign it as "To I-90/IN Toll Road" without a number.

I think I'd prefer I-65 over I-57, and I-57 over I-55. I-41 makes sense, but that gives you an intrastate Interstate. I-243 isn't that bad and makes sense, too.

The grid's already busted, so having I-65 (or 57, or 55) west of I-43 isn't much of an issue for me.

I don't think I would route I-65 on the Tri-State - at least, not to replace I-294. It's been I-294 since at least 1965 - again, ingrained in people's minds.

Once they build that I-57/I-294 interchange, you could route I-57 up the Tri-State. But it's not like the Tri-State needs an odd-number route to justify itself - it's been signed as N-S for as long as I can remember as I-294.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mukade on May 16, 2012, 09:29:34 PM
Quote from: JREwing78 on May 16, 2012, 08:43:16 PM
I wouldn't move I-94 off its current alignment, but routing I-65 over the Tri-State Tollway would remove the need for its current I-294 designation. And unlike the other options, it would span the entire Tollway from end to end; I-55 and I-57 couldn't do that.

That is true, but I-65 (or I-57) going through downtown Chicago mitigates the N-S I-94 problem from the Kingery (or Dan Ryan split) to Lake-Cook Rd. There is no expectation that the cardinal direction of a 3di will follow the even-odd number rule that should apply to a 2di.

Either way works, but in case you haven't noticed, the 100 mile N-S I-94 bugs me (and many others) so taking advantage of this unique opportunity of the Wisconsin US 41 upgrade  to solve a problem in Illinois would be nice.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mukade on May 16, 2012, 09:38:23 PM
Quote from: Stratuscaster on May 16, 2012, 09:20:55 PM
If you have to have signs on the stretch between the Borman and the IN Toll Road, go with I-165 - I'd just as soon sign it as "To I-90/IN Toll Road" without a number.

If there were no interchange between the Borman and Toll Road, that would work, but there are really two - assuming you count the US 12/20 one. So I-165 would be better than a connector designation.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on May 17, 2012, 09:16:50 AM
Quote from: mukade on May 16, 2012, 09:29:34 PM
Quote from: JREwing78 on May 16, 2012, 08:43:16 PM
I wouldn't move I-94 off its current alignment, but routing I-65 over the Tri-State Tollway would remove the need for its current I-294 designation. And unlike the other options, it would span the entire Tollway from end to end; I-55 and I-57 couldn't do that.

That is true, but I-65 (or I-57) going through downtown Chicago mitigates the N-S I-94 problem from the Kingery (or Dan Ryan split) to Lake-Cook Rd. There is no expectation that the cardinal direction of a 3di will follow the even-odd number rule that should apply to a 2di.

Either way works, but in case you haven't noticed, the 100 mile N-S I-94 bugs me (and many others) so taking advantage of this unique opportunity of the Wisconsin US 41 upgrade  to solve a problem in Illinois would be nice.


It doesn't bother 95% of the travelling public, so leave it how it stands. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hobsini2 on May 18, 2012, 01:46:40 PM
Merrycilantro, i never really thought about having I-65 being routed onto the Tri-State around Chicago BUT i like that idea better than routing through the Loop. I think I would also keep the 294 signs on it as well since it is the only real bypass of Chicago. I know some might scoff at a co-signing for no other reason but that but that's "how I roll". LOL Essentially nothing would be changed with the existing routes in Chicagoland other than I-65 being added and a x65 for the connector to the Indiana Toll Rd.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Stratuscaster on May 18, 2012, 08:18:07 PM
Co-sign with I-294 would have course work - and for travelers outside the area it might be beneficial. Locals will never call it "I-65" or "65" and would just keep referring to it as "294". I think my overall idea was to keep I-65 toll-free. Not that there's any reasoning behind it - just because.

Regardless of the US12/20 interchange, the very short connector - in my mind - doesn't require an "I-165" designator. Although I suppose if I-190 for O'Hare gets an I-number (not that I agree with that either)...
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: kphoger on May 19, 2012, 10:28:12 AM
Quote from: Stratuscaster on May 18, 2012, 08:18:07 PM
Co-sign with I-294 would have course work - and for travelers outside the area it might be beneficial. Locals will never call it "I-65" or "65" and would just keep referring to it as "294".

They won't call it 294.  They'll keep calling it the Tri-state.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on May 19, 2012, 11:08:54 AM
Agreed.  They refer to their freeways *cough* expressways and tollways by name, not number.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on May 19, 2012, 11:37:24 AM
It seems as though routing I-65 up I-294 (Tri State Tollway) would work well, it seems as though there are enough access points where travelers desiring to go to Chicago could get down to the Loop. This would, in theory, also alleviate additional traffic I'm sure routing I-65 through the Loop would do. Again, correct me if I am wrong about the access points, my only point of reference is Google Maps. On that end of the interstate, I guess it's just up to IDOT to see how willing they are to work with WISDOT and to what extent. I mean, either way, there would be a cosigned route with 90/94. Us Cheeseheads are used to that, we have 39/90/94 from Madison to Tomah. Travelers wanting to simply go through Chicago, I assume, will want to bypass Chicago anyway, so routing 65 with 294 would be a good fit, and on the Cheesehead side, it would do the same thing in the Milwaukee area, as it will follow the Airport and Zoo Freeways (I-894), and on a smaller scale, Appleton.

Does anybody happen to know how they figure out what the costs would be, for example, to sign 65 thru Chicago versus signing 57 or 55? I can only assume they'd want to do the cheaper of the two...On a more humorous note, WISDOT might have to offer a decent bribe to IDOT to get the ball rolling on that one...eh?...eh?...*crickets................

More to come later
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Jordanah1 on May 19, 2012, 11:54:42 AM
off of the topic of US41 future signing, ill throw in a quick report of the progress in oshkosh.
the US41 southbound lanes are being poured from the north side of the Butte des morts causeway, all the way south to just north of the witzel overpass. from what i can see, all the concrete is poured for the US41-US45 interchange, and painting on the flyover is almost complete. i could see that interchange opening a few weeks ahead of schedual. the girders over US41 are all in place at the WI21 interchange, and the roundabouts are completely poured at the frontage roads accept for the red apron in the middle. traffic is even allowed to continue east in wi21 to the koller roundabout, and turn right on it. concrete is poured on the northbound lanes through the US45 interchange, and grading is largely complete up to the WI76 interchange. north of WI 76 however, they are still removing all of the old concrete.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: kphoger on May 19, 2012, 12:05:04 PM
Quote from: merrycilantro on May 19, 2012, 11:37:24 AM
This would, in theory, also alleviate additional traffic...

I am not convinced that changing a number on a sign alleviates traffic.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on May 19, 2012, 12:30:37 PM
Quote from: merrycilantro on May 19, 2012, 11:37:24 AM
It seems as though routing I-65 up I-294 (Tri State Tollway) would work well, it seems as though there are enough access points where travelers desiring to go to Chicago could get down to the Loop. This would, in theory, also alleviate additional traffic I'm sure routing I-65 through the Loop would do. Again, correct me if I am wrong about the access points, my only point of reference is Google Maps. On that end of the interstate, I guess it's just up to IDOT to see how willing they are to work with WISDOT and to what extent. I mean, either way, there would be a cosigned route with 90/94. Us Cheeseheads are used to that, we have 39/90/94 from Madison to Tomah. Travelers wanting to simply go through Chicago, I assume, will want to bypass Chicago anyway, so routing 65 with 294 would be a good fit, and on the Cheesehead side, it would do the same thing in the Milwaukee area, as it will follow the Airport and Zoo Freeways (I-894), and on a smaller scale, Appleton.

Does anybody happen to know how they figure out what the costs would be, for example, to sign 65 thru Chicago versus signing 57 or 55? I can only assume they'd want to do the cheaper of the two...On a more humorous note, WISDOT might have to offer a decent bribe to IDOT to get the ball rolling on that one...eh?...eh?...*crickets................

More to come later

Well, I have no idea on actual costs, but I would think that from the standpoint of Illinois, the least signage work would be a toss-up between using '57' and '65' via the Skyway and Indiana Toll Road.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: kharvey10 on May 19, 2012, 01:50:43 PM
http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/meetings-planned-for-highway-41-interstate-conversion-ke5cseg-151325935.html

If they intend on signing to to Chicago, call it I-57 and piss off IDiOT in the process.  At least it will correct some of the cardinal direction screwups on I-94 between Chicago and Milwaukee, and correct a mistake made over 40 years ago.  IDiOT balked at the first attempt cause they didn't want to spend the dough on signs and they're not entirely on the hook with the signage (ITHA).  With IDiOT allegedly broke as is and that new interchange at 294 due to be built, WisDOT can really extract dough from the IDiOT emergency fund. Truckers that heavily use the Chicago-New Orleans corridor see it as I-55 anyway.  I-55 won't work functionally cause the truckers would get off at I-39 in B-Normal and bypass Chicagoland - and that does not play into WisDOT plans at all.  WisDOT just needs to stick it to IDiOT; it appears that the ITHA doesn't give a care anyway.  People from Chicagoland know their expressways and tollways by name with a couple exceptions.

65 would been better off being signed up towards Michigan and it would been a more expensive signage option than I-57.

If they don't want to do the signage, just call it an even-numbered x43 and see how AASTHO and FHWA loves it.  Its unlikely that they will approve a 3di that is just as long as I-39 in Wisconsin.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mukade on May 19, 2012, 07:40:24 PM
Quote from: kharvey10 on May 19, 2012, 01:50:43 PM
65 would been better off being signed up towards Michigan and it would been a more expensive signage option than I-57.

No way I-65 could ever go to Michigan. Think about the ony two options: - option 1 would be to move I-65 designation to US 31. That will not ever happen under any circumstances. Option 2 would be to extend I-65 via I-94 and up I-196. If you did that, you would have the exact same situation as I-55 in Wisconsin - there is a much better alternative over it. In the case of Michigan, the far superior alternative is US 31 due south to Indy. No one from Michigan would ever follow an indirect I-65 routing like that (not to mention going thru all that congestion). Just as with the potential I-55 designation in Wisconsin, look at a map and you will see it is a non-starter.

In addition to I-57 being a relatively minor route, that would still leave a good chunk of I-94 going north and south with no odd number Interstate designation to balance it. As for I-57 being an alternate I-55, think about if more Wisconsin traffic goes toward New Orleans or points east and southeast. I bet it is the latter. If it is the latter, I-65 is the logical route. If it is the former, I-57 is.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: NE2 on May 19, 2012, 07:51:24 PM
There's already a better alternative to I-55... If I-55 went to Green Bay, it would simply serve Chicago as it serves St. Louis.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on May 19, 2012, 09:51:22 PM
Quote from: mukade on May 19, 2012, 07:40:24 PM
Quote from: kharvey10 on May 19, 2012, 01:50:43 PM
65 would been better off being signed up towards Michigan and it would been a more expensive signage option than I-57.

No way I-65 could ever go to Michigan. Think about the ony two options: - option 1 would be to move I-65 designation to US 31. That will not ever happen under any circumstances. Option 2 would be to extend I-65 via I-94 and up I-196. If you did that, you would have the exact same situation as I-55 in Wisconsin - there is a much better alternative over it. In the case of Michigan, the far superior alternative is US 31 due south to Indy. No one from Michigan would ever follow an indirect I-65 routing like that (not to mention going thru all that congestion). Just as with the potential I-55 designation in Wisconsin, look at a map and you will see it is a non-starter.

In addition to I-57 being a relatively minor route, that would still leave a good chunk of I-94 going north and south with no odd number Interstate designation to balance it. As for I-57 being an alternate I-55, think about if more Wisconsin traffic goes toward New Orleans or points east and southeast. I bet it is the latter. If it is the latter, I-65 is the logical route. If it is the former, I-57 is.

Well...

...'I-65' could certainly go into Michigan.  Assuming that it is chosen as the I-route number for US 41 in Wisconsin, it could, conceivably, someday be extended farther northeastward along US 41 to about Powers, MI and then eastward along US 2 to end at I-75 near Saint Ignace, MI.

:nod:

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mukade on May 19, 2012, 10:04:40 PM
Doh!

Not sure about going east, but to Escanaba and Marquette, it actually could.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Stratuscaster on May 20, 2012, 12:20:52 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 19, 2012, 10:28:12 AM
They won't call it 294.  They'll keep calling it the Tri-state.
Quote from: Master son on May 19, 2012, 11:08:54 AM
Agreed.  They refer to their freeways *cough* expressways and tollways by name, not number.
As one who lives here, I'll just say that they'll call it both - as we do today. What they wouldn't call it is "I-65" if it were to be routed that way.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on May 20, 2012, 01:15:39 AM
In reference: "Truckers that heavily use the Chicago-New Orleans corridor see it as I-55 anyway.  I-55 won't work functionally cause the truckers would get off at I-39 in B-Normal and bypass Chicagoland"

I see that point, they'd just take 39 north to 43 and 43 to Milwaukee.

I know quite a few people on here have basically indicated all signs point to 57, and as I review the maps I tend to see the "writing on the noise wall", pun intended. I assume it would be easier to slap 57 signs on the Dan Ryan and the Edens than to reconfigure signing for interchanges along the Borman and Tri-State. The second easiest option, it appears, is I-55, and slapping a 1, 3, 5, 7 or 9 in front of the 55 on that last leg of the Stevenson. And actually, on second thought...switch that around. Less mileage and 4 interchanges vs an alternative of 8 to a dozen or so with the other options.

My reference to alleviating traffic, was merely that travelers who are not familiar to the Chicago Area who are merely driving through would presumably stay on the main route as opposed to bypassing. So travelers from Indy and south would stay on the 65 freeway(s) rather than bypass. Again, that is only speculative.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Brandon on May 20, 2012, 08:16:51 AM
Interestingly enough, I-65 would be easier to bring up than I-55.  I-65 has very nice higher-speed ramps from north to west and from east to south at the interchange with the Borman.

I-55 has very tight, 20mph ramps to do the same to either the Tri-State or the Ryan.

I-57 would be even easier as it has a high-speed connection at The Merge with the Bishop Ford to form the Ryan.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mukade on May 20, 2012, 10:16:49 AM
Regarding signage cost, how expensive would it be? Presumably, Wisconsin is planning new signage along I-94 anyway. In Indiana, they have the option of using the Indianapolis I-465 strategy for US 6 - that is putting up a sign at SR 51 saying something like "US 6 follow I-80 west to Exit 161". Then the US 6 shield could simply be replaced by an I-65 shield on all signs along the parts of the Borman that might carry I-65. No one wants to follow US 6 across the country anyway.

Illinois is where there is more problem - it has several new (mostly Clearview) signs all the way up with no room for an additional shield. That would run into some money regardless of an I-55, I-57, or I-65 designation. Then again, if IDOT had money to replace perfectly good signs simply for a new font...

Some web sites to see signs:
- Roads of the Mid-South & West - I-94 (http://www.billburmaster.com/rmsandw/illinois/interstate/94il.html)
- Highway Explorer - I-94 (http://highwayexplorer.com/il_EndsPage.php?id=3094&section=1)
- and of course Google Maps street view

Not that it would be my first choice, but replacing I-294 signs with I-65 ones would be the simplest option from a signage perspective.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: kharvey10 on May 20, 2012, 02:15:19 PM
TN got approval to put up I-69 signs around the same time as Mississippi but opted not to do so.  Where IDiOT put up the crapview depends on the interstate (there are some that have yet to see any new signs).  WisDOT knows that Illinois is broke.  If WisDOT can manage to get 55 or 57 extended on the US 41 freeway, this forces IDiOT one of two things:  either blow WisDOT off or pony up for new signs.  ITHA will likely follow suit with WisDOT, although not right away.  WisDOT is using I-94 corridor from Milwaukee to Chicago as their excuse.

WisDOT can extract the most money out of IDiOT by going with 57.  IDiOT and ITHA is in process of building that 57-294 interchange.  WisDOT also wants to stick a N/S interstate on the section of 94 from Chicago to Milwaukee so bad - they wanted to do this 40 years ago when they built I-43.  WisDOT is hoping that doing this would force IDiOT to beef up the I-39 corridor - a corridor with significant lobbying leverage with the transport industry (hint: truck traffic sometimes outnumber automobile traffic on the section of I-39 from Rockford to I-80 as it is cheaper for I-90 and I-94 truck traffic to use 39/80 combo to bypass Chicago than use I-294 due to less traffic and just 30 miles of toll roads to contend with).  WisDOT has already successfully forced ITHA to dump the Cherry Valley tollbooths plus widen the 39/90, and IDiOT to start planning a new I-39/US 20 interchange - all by getting approval for I-39 for the US 51 freeway 20 years ago.  The 39/90 widening is packaged with a total rebuild to some extent - a rebuild that WisDOT was going to do anyway. 

By going with I-57, it can force IDiOT and ITHA to push up that interchange with I-294 on a faster timeline.  It will likely force more work on the Dan Ryan, which is congested as it is and any fix on that is not cheap.  It could also force IDiOT downstate to beef up I-57 even faster as I-57 already got truck traffic in spots exceeding 30% of the AADT. 

If they went with I-55 (like some of those locals want) there are some major drawbacks.  First is that interchange with the Dan Ryan.  Single lane ramps as opposed to the multi-lane ramps at 94-57 interchange.  Upgrading the 90/94 and 55 interchange would be cost-prohibitive due to all the expensive development and railroad overpasses in the area.  Second drawback is what would they do with the stub left behind.  It will also encourage truckers to utilize I-39 and I-43 to get to Milwaukee which totally defeats WisDOT purpose of getting US 41 to interstate standards.  IDiOT could also put IL 53 north of I-90 on a fast track just to piss off WisDOT if they wanted to.

When IDiOT built I-39, WisDOT promptly got I-43 extended to I-90 and started beefing up their section of US 51.  It kept IDiOT from further extending I-39 to their intended target of I-57 because that would enable the truckers to avoid the well known ISP revenue enhancement corridor on I-55 in Springfield.

Its also possible that WisDOT plans could trigger some mass remumberings.  WisDOT sees an x43 as a slap to their face and IDiOT would love to see it get an x43 cause that means they don't have to spend a dime.  IDiOT could get really classy and switch around I-39, I-55, and/or I-57 - potentially setting off a chain reaction of outrage on both the local and political stage.  (IDiOT tried pulling off a renumbering stunt on two different occasions, first one the locals told them off and the second one IowaDOT told them no.)

Bottom line is that this will be a political firestorm.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mukade on May 20, 2012, 02:48:43 PM
I don't see how the Tri-state/I-57 interchange factors in. I also don't see how extending any number means widening other roads - whether that be on the Ryan or downstate. It would not generate any additional traffic whatsoever.

If WisDOT hates IDOT so much, then get INDOT involved to put even more pressure on IDOT and the Illinois Tollway. Also, even though IDOT may be broke, the Tollway is not. If I-65 were chosen and followed the Tri-State, IDOT would have less than 5 miles to worry about, right?

The I-55 alternative does not make any sense on any level - poor interchanges and would not follow established traffic patterns.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: kharvey10 on May 20, 2012, 04:35:51 PM
IDOT only would have to deal with 2 miles with the I-65 on the tri-state plan, which is not WisDOT intention.  WisDOT has every intent of going after IDiOT as they have pulled it off before.  WisDOT is pouring a lot of money on that north-south I-94 corridor, the ITHA recently widened it as well.  Therefore, WisDOT is using the I-94 corridor to "extend" one of the odd-numbered 2di that terminate in the Chicagoland area onto that US 41 freeway.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: InterstateNG on May 20, 2012, 06:34:51 PM
Quote from: kharvey10 on May 20, 2012, 02:15:19 PM
Where IDiOT put up the crapview depends on the interstate (there are some that have yet to see any new signs).

My eyes are burning.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: on_wisconsin on May 20, 2012, 06:41:50 PM
Quote from: kharvey10 on May 20, 2012, 04:35:51 PM
WisDOT has every intent of going after IDiOT.....
[Citation Needed] (sorry)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: kharvey10 on May 20, 2012, 08:53:15 PM
Quote from: on_wisconsin on May 20, 2012, 06:41:50 PM
Quote from: kharvey10 on May 20, 2012, 04:35:51 PM
WisDOT has every intent of going after IDiOT.....
[Citation Needed] (sorry)
See I-43 and I-39 when they were planned.  Its a very long story.  But look at both their history.  WisDOT only throws their money on heavily used corridors.  IDiOT throws their money on corridors that are better off no-build while the corridors that desperately need the funds get shafted.  WisDOT sees the portion of I-94 from Milwaukee to Chicago and I-90 from the state line to Portage as north-south highways and so do the locals.  WisDOT attempted to try to fix the problem with I-94 way back in the 1970s by proposing "I-57" from Milwaukee to Green Bay (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=bQkkAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4hAEAAAAIBAJ&dq=interstate%2057&pg=5568%2C722965 ).  WisDOT had every intention of linking that with the Illinois section using I-94. IDiOT is formed in 1972.  Well, someone whined about WisDOT proposal and it ends up becoming I-43.

After the section from Milwaukee to Green Bay is built, WisDOT starts beefing up WIS 15 from Milwaukee to Beloit and attempts to make that I-43.  IDiOT was busy upgrading the US 51 from Rockford to I-80.  IDiOT wants US 51 upgraded into an interstate and there were some key political influence in the state house going on from a few local politicians.  WisDOT was hoping that AASTHO and FHWA would make that US 51 freeway into I-43 as well, but it fell through.  WisDOT starts beefing up their US 51 corridor in that same time frame and starts pushing it to be I-39 as well.  WisDOT gets it but doesn't sign it for a few years due to an interchange reconstruction project at I-90/94.  When that was done I-39 gets signed and ITHA goes along with it although not right away. 

Most of this was gotten from going through archives on some of the local newspapers, mainly the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel.

WisDOT wants a 2di if at all possible.  An x43 will be a slap on the wrist (Look at Arkansas with the I-49/I-540 mess they're in) and will defeat their original plan in correcting that cardinal direction issue between Chicago and Milwaukee.  With 3 odd numbered interstates having their northern end in Chicagoland, WisDOT got a prime opportunity to go at IDiOT.  They tried it in the early 1970s but didn't get their way.

Regardless this is how it will end up happening:  http://xxcheshiii-chanxx.deviantart.com/art/Troll-Face-190586335
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: InterstateNG on May 20, 2012, 09:37:42 PM
Unless someone that doesn't have a well-documented axe to grind with IDOT buttresses these claims, I find all of this far-fetched.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Stratuscaster on May 20, 2012, 10:29:24 PM
Been traveling between Illinois and Wisconsin for a number of decades, and despite the two major Interstates being marked "W-E" instead of "N-S" I've never gotten lost nor do I know of anyone else that has gotten lost because of it.

Not seeing where (other than relieving some folks' pet peeves about highways marked in incorrect cardinal directions due to a geographical issue) multi-plexing an odd Interstate number between Chicago and Milwaukee would solve any perceived problem or somehow magically bring peace to the world.

Remember what they did with US-66 in Illinois? It ran more N-S than W-E, so instead it got "CHICAGO" and "ST. LOUIS" directional markers. Label I-90 "MADISON" and "CHICAGO" and label I-94 "MILWAUKEE" and "CHICAGO".

Or better yet, leave them alone - that's what control cities are for.

If WisDOT absolutely MUST have another 2DI and can't get IL and IN to play ball, then use I-41 and be done with it. That is the simplest solution. Already precedent for 2-digit intrastate Interstates.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on May 21, 2012, 01:10:33 AM
I honestly had no idea the politics that went into the odd numbering the way it is between Wisconsin and Illinois. What exactly did Illinois want to do with their renumbering attempts? Were there any renumbering attempts made in any other Midwestern states?

I actually hope it does spark a whole renumbering storm, because the way it's setup now makes no sense. Maybe that's the OCD in me...OK Probably is. I guess we just hope that AASHTO picks the logical answer as opposed to the cheapest quick-fix they can.

Does the apparent animosity exist between WISDOT and ITHA as well, or is it just with IDOT? If the tensions aren't as bad, I could see them being more willing to spend the cash and run a 2di up the tollway system, though getting INDOT involved would help too, I would hope. I apologize for sounding naive, as i've said i'm just getting into this and am still unaware of things such as past politics, signage costs, etc.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on May 21, 2012, 10:40:40 AM
Quote from: kharvey10 on May 20, 2012, 08:53:15 PM
After the section from Milwaukee to Green Bay is built, WisDOT starts beefing up WIS 15 from Milwaukee to Beloit and attempts to make that I-43.  IDiOT was busy upgrading the US 51 from Rockford to I-80.  IDiOT wants US 51 upgraded into an interstate and there were some key political influence in the state house going on from a few local politicians.  WisDOT was hoping that AASTHO and FHWA would make that US 51 freeway into I-43 as well, but it fell through.  WisDOT starts beefing up their US 51 corridor in that same time frame and starts pushing it to be I-39 as well.  WisDOT gets it but doesn't sign it for a few years due to an interchange reconstruction project at I-90/94.  When that was done I-39 gets signed and ITHA goes along with it although not right away. 


I'm not sure you are saying this correctly...I believe the order of things was this:

**I-43 signed from GB to Milwaukee
**WI-15, and US-51 in Illinois are upgraded to interstate status, WIDOT proposes I-43 for the entire corridor, but US-51 is completed first and IDOT gets its own number...I-39.
**I-43 is extended along WI-15
**I-39 is extended along US-15 in Wisconsin
**Illinois doesn't sign the I-39 extension for a number of years.

The point is that the entire duplex with I-39 and I-90 was completely unnecessary had AASHTO planned it right and IDOT would have gone along.  What should have resulted was a much shorter duplex of I-43 and I-90.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: sr641 on May 21, 2012, 05:34:29 PM
Thy should just call the US 41 freeway in Wisconsin, Interstate 41.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: US71 on May 21, 2012, 09:01:04 PM
Quote from: sr641 on May 21, 2012, 05:34:29 PM
They should just call the US 41 freeway in Wisconsin, Interstate 41.

That would violate the MUTCD.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Alps on May 21, 2012, 09:12:33 PM
Quote from: US71 on May 21, 2012, 09:01:04 PM
Quote from: sr641 on May 21, 2012, 05:34:29 PM
They should just call the US 41 freeway in Wisconsin, Interstate 41.

That would violate the MUTCD.
Talk to I-74 in North Carolina. Where in the MUTCD does it prohibit Interstate and US highway numbers from being the same?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: US71 on May 21, 2012, 09:15:27 PM
Quote from: Steve on May 21, 2012, 09:12:33 PM
Quote from: US71 on May 21, 2012, 09:01:04 PM
Quote from: sr641 on May 21, 2012, 05:34:29 PM
They should just call the US 41 freeway in Wisconsin, Interstate 41.

That would violate the MUTCD.
Talk to I-74 in North Carolina. Where in the MUTCD does it prohibit Interstate and US highway numbers from being the same?

Does it not? I thought it did.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Alps on May 21, 2012, 09:17:02 PM
Quote from: US71 on May 21, 2012, 09:15:27 PM
Quote from: Steve on May 21, 2012, 09:12:33 PM
Quote from: US71 on May 21, 2012, 09:01:04 PM
Quote from: sr641 on May 21, 2012, 05:34:29 PM
They should just call the US 41 freeway in Wisconsin, Interstate 41.

That would violate the MUTCD.
Talk to I-74 in North Carolina. Where in the MUTCD does it prohibit Interstate and US highway numbers from being the same?

Does it not? I thought it did.
AASHTO numbered the Interstates so as not to conflict. It's all on them, unless Congress overrules them. But the MUTCD is only for uniform traffic control devices, it doesn't matter what numbers go on the device.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: adt1982 on May 21, 2012, 09:21:54 PM
Illinois has had US 24 and I-24 for years...
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: US71 on May 21, 2012, 09:28:03 PM
Quote from: Steve on May 21, 2012, 09:17:02 PM
AASHTO numbered the Interstates so as not to conflict. It's all on them, unless Congress overrules them. But the MUTCD is only for uniform traffic control devices, it doesn't matter what numbers go on the device.

You are correct. I was thinking AASHTO, but wrote MUTCD.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.quicksprout.com%2Fimages%2Fhomerdoh.jpg&hash=d0c60033c2ef01dae6ef9614fc2b29c9a7c203e9)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Alps on May 21, 2012, 09:29:51 PM
Quote from: US71 on May 21, 2012, 09:28:03 PM
Quote from: Steve on May 21, 2012, 09:17:02 PM
AASHTO numbered the Interstates so as not to conflict. It's all on them, unless Congress overrules them. But the MUTCD is only for uniform traffic control devices, it doesn't matter what numbers go on the device.

You are correct. I was thinking AASHTO, but wrote MUTCD.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.quicksprout.com%2Fimages%2Fhomerdoh.jpg&hash=d0c60033c2ef01dae6ef9614fc2b29c9a7c203e9)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.myteespot.com%2Fimages%2FImages_d%2Fd_7416.jpg&hash=5e3b38ad181b8dfb99ebc636a2e3aa7bf8d7af06)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: NE2 on May 21, 2012, 09:31:31 PM
They're both federal highway numbers anyway.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hbelkins on May 21, 2012, 09:32:29 PM
Why would two border state transportation agencies hate each other the way Kim indicates Wisconsin and Illinois do?

And isn't I-47 available?

Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on May 21, 2012, 10:46:36 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 21, 2012, 09:32:29 PM
Why would two border state transportation agencies hate each other the way Kim indicates Wisconsin and Illinois do?

And isn't I-47 available?



Yes, it is, but just like with '55', WI 47 intersects US 41 here in Appleton.  WI 47 is, regionally, a much more important highway than WI 55 is, too.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Stratuscaster on May 21, 2012, 10:52:22 PM
Precedent for "split" Interstates, too. Use I-45 - gives Wisconsin a 2DI and and an x5.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hbelkins on May 21, 2012, 10:56:03 PM
Quote from: Stratuscaster on May 21, 2012, 10:52:22 PM
Precedent for "split" Interstates, too. Use I-45 - gives Wisconsin a 2DI and and an x5.

In that case, Wisconsin could use I-57 or I-65 and Illinois wouldn't have to change any signage.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: kharvey10 on May 22, 2012, 09:01:40 AM
Quote from: adt1982 on May 21, 2012, 09:21:54 PM
Illinois has had US 24 and I-24 for years...
They're in different parts of the state - I-24 in Southern Illinois and US 24 in Central Illinois.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on May 22, 2012, 11:33:03 AM
Different locations, and also I-24 has a very short distance in Southern IL. This would be cosigning a U.S. 41/I-41 for a majority of its length in the state of WI.

We really could just sign it 57, or even 65 or 55 for that matter, since there are split interstates like that (in reference to the I-45). This region really doesn't need another INTRAstate Interstate. Though, if we DID sign it one of the 3 numbers, we'd just wait for IL (and possibly IN) to respond as well, which, if what I'm reading here is true, just might not ever happen. Though reading about AASHTO in regards to I-43 and I-39...almost makes me wonder if they, too, will just respond by slapping an x43 or x94 onto it and move onto the next project. Just goes back to the Wizard of Oz quote that fits pretty well in with politicians: "Sometimes people without brains do a lot of talking."

the only solution to comply with the federal rules on numbers would be to decommision US41 and sign it I-41, and then renumber the parts of US 41 north of Green Bay to the MI state line, and the portions from Milwaukee to the IL state line as state highways...which in my mind would take too much time/money. Unless they just decided screw it let's break the rules. Ya, i know, Captian Obvious...but even typing it out, it seems like a waste.

If there's anybody in the IL area that has IDOT inside information...I wonder what their thought process is, knowing WISDOT wants to do either of these possibilities. And if they're as at odds as it appears (based on this blog), i wonder which one we could get them to come to an agreement on. Maybe give them Kenosha as a thank you. Just kidding.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on May 22, 2012, 01:24:14 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 21, 2012, 10:56:03 PM
Quote from: Stratuscaster on May 21, 2012, 10:52:22 PM
Precedent for "split" Interstates, too. Use I-45 - gives Wisconsin a 2DI and and an x5.

In that case, Wisconsin could use I-57 or I-65 and Illinois wouldn't have to change any signage.


I-57 would likely need to cause the massive renumbering of WI-57, which also runs from Milwaukee to Green Bay but along a different route.

I-55 would cause a similar renumbering, but I-65 wouldn't.  I-41 would probably just cause a renumbering of the "on-street" US-41 in the Milwaukee area and a re-route of the USH on I-94.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on May 22, 2012, 01:36:50 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 22, 2012, 01:24:14 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 21, 2012, 10:56:03 PM
Quote from: Stratuscaster on May 21, 2012, 10:52:22 PM
Precedent for "split" Interstates, too. Use I-45 - gives Wisconsin a 2DI and and an x5.

In that case, Wisconsin could use I-57 or I-65 and Illinois wouldn't have to change any signage.


I-57 would likely need to cause the massive renumbering of WI-57, which also runs from Milwaukee to Green Bay but along a different route.

I-55 would cause a similar renumbering, but I-65 wouldn't.  I-41 would probably just cause a renumbering of the "on-street" US-41 in the Milwaukee area and a re-route of the USH on I-94.

For many years I begged and pleaded with the area WisDOT guys to reroute US 41 to follow I-894 and US 45 through Milwaukee County and reflag US 41 on the city streets as 'WI 175' as a way of ending navigational confusions for those unfamiliar with the area while transiting between Chicagoland and the Fox Valley - not just for Appleton and Oshkosh area locals who seldom leave their home towns but also for others like out of state OTR truck drivers who are unfamiliar with the area (it was always fun to give those directions out over a CB radio while near Milwaukee County on earlier roadtrips).

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: kphoger on May 22, 2012, 01:59:06 PM
Maybe we should all just admit that we're at the point that 3-digit numbers can no longer only serve short highways.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: rawmustard on May 22, 2012, 03:50:05 PM
Quote from: kphoger on May 22, 2012, 01:59:06 PM
Maybe we should all just admit that we're at the point that 3-digit numbers can no longer only serve short highways.

I thought we admitted that when I-476 was extended along the Northeast Extension.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: sr641 on May 22, 2012, 04:30:28 PM
Why does it matter what US 41 is called? Anything it's called is going to break some kind of rule. Interstate 66 in Kentucky is going to break the rules. Just call US 41 in Wisconsin Interstate 41 and co-sign them from Milwaukee-Green Bay.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: bulldog1979 on May 22, 2012, 04:31:58 PM
Quote from: merrycilantro on May 22, 2012, 11:33:03 AM
the only solution to comply with the federal rules on numbers would be to decommision US41 and sign it I-41, and then renumber the parts of US 41 north of Green Bay to the MI state line, and the portions from Milwaukee to the IL state line as state highways...which in my mind would take too much time/money. Unless they just decided screw it let's break the rules. Ya, i know, Captian Obvious...but even typing it out, it seems like a waste.
Such a change would require Michigan's permission first, and I doubt that MDOT will want to change US 41's number through the UP. It could be downgraded to M-41 and retain the number, but again, AASHTO would require Michigan's consent. (Such a sticking point stalled the US 27 truncation out of Michigan when INDOT wasn't in on the application.)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on May 22, 2012, 06:09:48 PM
The I-476 in PA seems completely ridiculous. 476 would imply that its beginning and endpoint would be at I-76 and that it would be a bypass route. Now before I stick my foot in my mouth again, I am sure there are *plenty* of other Interstates, spurs, what have you, that follow the same ridiculousness. I wonder what the story is behind the numbering of that particular interstate. It would seem that PennDOT can't seem to make up their mind (or AASHTO, whichever...not leading to positive thoughts about a 2di for 41 in WI), given the status of that freeway. Though, with how many states seem to break the rules, so to speak (ahem...Pennsylvania, California, and well actually many places east of the Mississippi), what harm would it be, allowing Wisconsin to follow suit? Call it Devil's Advocate...that's just my simple-minded POV.

If WisDOT and/or AASHTO really wanted to be ambitious, they would build Wis29 up to Interstate standards, make THAT an X94 (like 840 around Nashville only on a larger scale), and move the 43 designation onto current US41, leaving the former WIS 15 from Milwaukee to Beloit as part of the 43 corridor. 1. But, that'd be for another Thread, as 1-it is fictional, and number 2-there's other options for that. I'll have to search if not create a thread on the Fictional Highways forum on that topic of WIS29.

Back to the subject of 41, so many upgraded or highways to be upgraded are connected to 41 that it would be a shame to slap the x43 designation on them. If any of the spurs from 41 or connector freeways were built up to interstate standards, they'd have a difficult time numbering them, and it'd just lead to further confusion.

bottom line--keep it a 2di.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Alex on May 22, 2012, 06:18:09 PM
Quote from: merrycilantro on May 22, 2012, 06:09:48 PM
The I-476 in PA seems completely ridiculous. 476 would imply that its beginning and endpoint would be at I-76 and that it would be a bypass route. Now before I stick my foot in my mouth again, I am sure there are *plenty* of other Interstates, spurs, what have you, that follow the same ridiculousness. I wonder what the story is behind the numbering of that particular interstate. It would seem that PennDOT can't seem to make up their mind (or AASHTO, whichever...not leading to positive thoughts about a 2di for 41 in WI), given the status of that freeway. Though, with how many states seem to break the rules, so to speak (ahem...Pennsylvania, California, and well actually many places east of the Mississippi), what harm would it be, allowing Wisconsin to follow suit? Call it Devil's Advocate...that's just my simple-minded POV.


They wanted the Blue Route (I-476) and the Pennsylvania Turnpike Northeast Extension (PA-9) to have a common number to provide a seamless route between Philadelphia and Scranton.

The history of the 1996 signed extension can be found at http://www.interstate-guide.com/i-476_pa.html and www.pahighways.com/interstates/I476.html
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: agentsteel53 on May 22, 2012, 06:25:07 PM
why did they choose 476 back in the day?  CA chose similar new numbers to the old when upgrading 7 to 710 and 11 to 110.  why not 976 for PA-9?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: TheStranger on May 22, 2012, 06:41:35 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on May 22, 2012, 06:25:07 PM
CA chose similar new numbers to the old when upgrading 7 to 710 and 11 to 110.

In that vein, I've always felt that I-5W becoming I-505 and I-580 was not coincidental, either.  (580, 5W before that, also happens to be on much of former US 50.)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: agentsteel53 on May 22, 2012, 07:11:06 PM
hadn't thought about 5W and 505/580; but yes, 50 to 580 is one that I had noted before as well.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hobsini2 on May 22, 2012, 07:13:47 PM
Couple of things to address:
Masterson:
You are correct partially when it comes to the names of Chicagoland highways. More often than not, Tri-State is used in speaking terms however I don't know anyone who calls 90 the Jane Addams Tollway instead of the NW Tollway other than the news broadcasts. Same goes for 88 Reagan and 355 Veterans Tollways. To me they will always be the E-W Tollway and N-S Tollway. So in reality, yes and no.

The other point is someone had asked why would adding a number to an existing route change the traffic for such a route.

The point I and others were making about the specific interchanges where the current number would exit for the new number is the lack of RAMP capacity to handle such a change. For example, 55 at 294 and at 90/94. Both the northbound ramps are single lane ramps at 30 mph. Those ramps should be at least 2 lanes. That's the main reason why I would be against having 55 being extended north. 57 and 65 already have multilane merges heading north/west at 55 mph(which could also be safely taken at 65).

Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: kphoger on May 22, 2012, 07:17:06 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on May 22, 2012, 07:13:47 PM
however I don't know anyone who calls 90 the Jane Addams Tollway instead of the NW Tollway other than the news broadcasts. Same goes for 88 Reagan and 355 Veterans Tollways. To me they will always be the E-W Tollway and N-S Tollway. So in reality, yes and no.

And people call I-90 "The one that goes to Rockford, whatever the number is".
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: froggie on May 22, 2012, 08:40:53 PM
Not to burst anyone's bubble, but it appears AASHTO's route numbering committee discussed the US 41 corridor (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=6658.msg150401#msg150401) at their meeting last week and is interested in making it I-55.  Here's the entry from the meeting minutes (http://www.transportation.org/sites/route/docs/Report%20to%20SCOHSM2012%205-19-2012.pdf):

"The USRN discussed the Interstate 55 through Wisconsin that connects with I-55 in Illinois. It was decided that the committee Secretary, M. Vitale, will coordinate with Wisconsin in sending a letter to Illinois and copying FHWA on the need for I-55 and to support the value of I-55. It is Wisconsin's intent to get this process completed by the AASHTO Annual Meeting 2012 in Pittsburgh, PA."

Let the fireworks begin...
Title: Re: US 41 to I-55 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on May 22, 2012, 09:12:24 PM
Quote from: froggie on May 22, 2012, 08:40:53 PM
Not to burst anyone's bubble, but it appears AASHTO's route numbering committee discussed the US 41 corridor (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=6658.msg150401#msg150401) at their meeting last week and is interested in making it I-55.  Here's the entry from the meeting minutes (http://www.transportation.org/sites/route/docs/Report%20to%20SCOHSM2012%205-19-2012.pdf):

"The USRN discussed the Interstate 55 through Wisconsin that connects with I-55 in Illinois. It was decided that the committee Secretary, M. Vitale, will coordinate with Wisconsin in sending a letter to Illinois and copying FHWA on the need for I-55 and to support the value of I-55. It is Wisconsin's intent to get this process completed by the AASHTO Annual Meeting 2012 in Pittsburgh, PA."

Let the fireworks begin...

I would just be interested in seeing how WisDOT will ultimately handle its existing WI 55, which intersects US 41 (I-55?) in Kaukauna and then goes snaking its way tru da nortwoods all da way to da Michigan state line.  The other way, WI 55 is a semi-major state highway that runs southwards towards Fond du Lac along Lake Winnebago's east shore, becoming US 151 about half way down.

In Illinois, the point was driven home to me yet again a few weeks ago while I was driving down to the Joliet meet - that Tri-state Tollway (I-294)/Stevenson Expressway (I-55) interchange needs some big-ass major upgrades - regardless of what happens with I-55's numbering and continuance.

It now has some tight one-lane ramps and a couple of EZPass/unmanned coin drop tollgate lanes each way.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: JREwing78 on May 22, 2012, 09:25:44 PM
It wouldn't be terribly difficult for WisDOT to stick a 1 or 2 on the front of WI-55.
Title: Re: US 41 to I-55 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on May 22, 2012, 09:49:49 PM
Quote from: JREwing78 on May 22, 2012, 09:25:44 PM
It wouldn't be terribly difficult for WisDOT to stick a 1 or 2 on the front of WI-55.

Well, there already is a 'WI 155', but '255' is available.  Among two-digit numbers, '62', '84' and '99' are available.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Stratuscaster on May 22, 2012, 10:57:43 PM
Wait...now it's all becoming clear...

Run I-55 up the Ryan and Kennedy and Edens and into WI and all that...

And then when the IL-53/IL-120 extension-expansion is done, I-355 can get routed north and loop back to connect with...I-55. And because it's now a loop, it becomes I-455.

Make perfect sense, right? Right? ;)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: on_wisconsin on May 22, 2012, 10:58:49 PM
I can live very peacefully with I-55 if that ends up being the chosen interstate. Thank god they are not going with some sort of 3-di craziness!
Anyone want to make an I-55 state name shield for Wisco? :colorful:
Title: Re: US 41 to I-55 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on May 22, 2012, 11:35:23 PM
Quote from: on_wisconsin on May 22, 2012, 10:58:49 PM
I can live very peacefully with I-55 if that ends up being the chosen interstate. Thank god they are not going with some sort of 3-di craziness!
Anyone want to make an I-55 state name shield for Wisconsin? :colorful:

Heck, in addition to a few full-sized ones, make up a bunch of them (well, enough of them) of about 50 x 50 mm size, with strong magnets on their backsides, that we can pass out at a forthcoming roadgeek meet....

:happy:

:poke:

:cheers:

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hbelkins on May 22, 2012, 11:53:50 PM
OK, someone tell me why a 3di would be bad for this route.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on May 23, 2012, 11:55:27 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on May 22, 2012, 09:12:24 PM
I would just be interested in seeing how WisDOT will ultimately handle its existing WI 55, which intersects US 41 (I-55?) in Kaukauna and then goes snaking its way tru da nortwoods all da way to da Michigan state line.  The other way, WI 55 is a semi-major state highway that runs southwards towards Fond du Lac along Lake Winnebago's east shore, becoming US 151 about half way down.


My thought....

Keep it WI-55 north of WI-29.  South of WI-29, extend WI-160 south from the same interchange to WI-55's end with US-151.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on May 23, 2012, 12:21:07 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 23, 2012, 11:55:27 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on May 22, 2012, 09:12:24 PM
I would just be interested in seeing how WisDOT will ultimately handle its existing WI 55, which intersects US 41 (I-55?) in Kaukauna and then goes snaking its way tru da nortwoods all da way to da Michigan state line.  The other way, WI 55 is a semi-major state highway that runs southwards towards Fond du Lac along Lake Winnebago's east shore, becoming US 151 about half way down.


My thought....

Keep it WI-55 north of WI-29.  South of WI-29, extend WI-160 south from the same interchange to WI-55's end with US-151.

I was thinking on the same lines, except that instead of WI 29, I would cut WI 55 back to its north split from WI 47 at Keshena.  That split is a 90 degree 'T' intersection 'favoring' WI 47, making that a convenient ending point.

IMHO, the really big bugaboo with '55', though, is in Chicagoland.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on May 23, 2012, 12:37:42 PM
Oh I forgot about the duplex with WI-47.  You are correct...much better endpoint.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Stratuscaster on May 23, 2012, 08:29:38 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 22, 2012, 11:53:50 PM
OK, someone tell me why a 3di would be bad for this route.
Sounds like it would only be "bad" because someone thinks Wisconsin thinks it would be a "slap in the face" somehow.

You know, kinda like how some folks think that the red-white-and-blue Interstate shields are a magic generator of business and jobs when compared to a US shield or a state shield. But now it's that a 2DI is obviously MUCH better than a 3DI in that regard. I'm sure there are business studies that can be cited...somewhere. Or not.

Again, I'd personally tag it as I-243. If you absolutely have to have a 2DI from Illinois, then use I-57.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: on_wisconsin on May 23, 2012, 09:09:44 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on May 22, 2012, 09:12:24 PM
IMHO, the really big bugaboo with '55', though, is in Chicagoland.
One way WisDOT could potentially save themselves a lot of headaches is to deal with the Illinois Tollway (I-294 Tri-state) instead of dealing with only the Illinois DOT (I-94 Kennedy- Edens).
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mukade on May 23, 2012, 09:48:28 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 22, 2012, 11:53:50 PM
OK, someone tell me why a 3di would be bad for this route.

- Population served: The section in question goes from a metro area of over 1.5 million people connecting to counties with populations of around 100K, 160K, 175K, and 250K. To me, this area should have been served by a 2di Interstate from the beginning.
- The original Interstate plan: I would compare this to I-35 and to some extent, I-75. Not that extensions north of either of these would be be 3dis, but the original philosophy was to have longer 2dis (especially I-x5 ones). The fact that Chicago received a strange treatment where all three odd-numbered 2dis all ended south of the Loop created a different situation than Interstates going north from the Twin Cities and Detroit.

Why shouldn't it be a 2di?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on May 24, 2012, 12:27:07 AM
All right, so we've got some solid evidence in the 55 camp. I can live with that. And for a I-x5 freeway to get closer to being truly transcontinental, is even better. Quite frankly anything that's not a 2di or an intrastate number works for me. Can someone tell me: Spurs and bypasses off a 2di, can they repeat in individual states? example: if they wanted to sign, say WIS 441 and WIS 172, and maybe even US45 from the Richfield Interchange to West Bend, and then north of Oshkosh, as spurs, could they use numbers that are used in other states? I see it in place now, with I-155 in Illinois and Missouri/Tennessee...but is that an anomaly? Although, looking at Google Maps I only see 155 and 355 being used along the entire route (unless I have not zoomed in far enough). We could potentially have an I-555. I'd say either from Richfield to West Bend or more appropriately, Oshkosh to Stevens Point. then just do 855 and 755 for WIS 441 and WIS 172 respectively.

I wonder if they'll drop the 894 designation altogether...though I imagine they'd keep it on for the sheer fact that the outsider traveling through the Milwaukee area would then know that 894 will bypass Milwaukee.

Anyway thanks for the post from the meeting about I-55!
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Alex on May 24, 2012, 12:48:45 AM
Quote from: merrycilantro on May 24, 2012, 12:27:07 AM
Can someone tell me: Spurs and bypasses off a 2di, can they repeat in individual states? example: if they wanted to sign, say WIS 441 and WIS 172, and maybe even US45 from the Richfield Interchange to West Bend, and then north of Oshkosh, as spurs, could they use numbers that are used in other states? I see it in place now, with I-155 in Illinois and Missouri/Tennessee...but is that an anomaly? Although, looking at Google Maps I only see 155 and 355 being used along the entire route (unless I have not zoomed in far enough). We could potentially have an I-555. I'd say either from Richfield to West Bend or more appropriately, Oshkosh to Stevens Point. then just do 855 and 755 for WIS 441 and WIS 172 respectively.

States can replicate 3di's from other states, but not within the same state. For instance there are seven different versions of Interstate 295 presently, with an eighth signed as a Future Route in Fayetteville, NC.

There was one instance of two Interstate 280 routings in Iowa: one an extension from Nebraska on the north side of Omaha, and the other the southwest portion of the Quad Cities belt route. The Nebraska-Iowa version was later renumbered to I-680.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on May 24, 2012, 01:06:28 AM
Quote from: merrycilantro on May 24, 2012, 12:27:07 AM
All right, so we've got some solid evidence in the 55 camp. I can live with that. And for a I-x5 freeway to get closer to being truly transcontinental, is even better. Quite frankly anything that's not a 2di or an intrastate number works for me. Can someone tell me: Spurs and bypasses off a 2di, can they repeat in individual states? example: if they wanted to sign, say WIS 441 and WIS 172, and maybe even US45 from the Richfield Interchange to West Bend, and then north of Oshkosh, as spurs, could they use numbers that are used in other states? I see it in place now, with I-155 in Illinois and Missouri/Tennessee...but is that an anomaly? Although, looking at Google Maps I only see 155 and 355 being used along the entire route (unless I have not zoomed in far enough). We could potentially have an I-555. I'd say either from Richfield to West Bend or more appropriately, Oshkosh to Stevens Point. then just do 855 and 755 for WIS 441 and WIS 172 respectively.

I wonder if they'll drop the 894 designation altogether...though I imagine they'd keep it on for the sheer fact that the outsider traveling through the Milwaukee area would then know that 894 will bypass Milwaukee.

Anyway thanks for the post from the meeting about I-55!

If anything, with US 41 becoming either I-55, 57 or even 65, I can see I-94 also being rerouted to replace I-894, with the East-West Freeway east of the Zoo Interchange becoming I-794 and the I-94 part of the North-South Freeway just becoming I-43.

As for the other interesting spurs along US 41 north of Milwaukee, I can see the US 45 West Bend Spur becoming 'I-3xx', WI 441 becoming 'I-4xx' and WI 172 becoming 'I-343'.  Note that there already are state highways in Wisconsin numbered '155', '157' and '165'.  Also, as upgrades progress, I can foresee US 10 between US 41 and I-39 becoming a westward extension of the 'I-4xx'.  Also note that US 45 between US 41 at Oshkosh and US 10 at Winchester has a couple of freeway-to-freeway 'missing moves' at the US 41 end (must use local street access ramps for two moves there), although there are other instances where I-route split interchanges do not include all of the turns.

We shall see.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: OCGuy81 on May 24, 2012, 10:44:37 AM
QuoteWell, there already is a 'WI 155', but '255' is available.  Among two-digit numbers, '62', '84' and '99' are available.

They made things work when I-39 entered the state, but granted WI-39 doesn't intersect 90/39.  Does Wisconsin have some aversion to using single digit routes?  1,3,4,5,6,7, and 9 are all available as well.

QuoteIf anything, with US 41 becoming either I-55, 57 or even 65, I can see I-94 also being rerouted to replace I-894, with the East-West Freeway east of the Zoo Interchange becoming I-794 and the I-94 part of the North-South Freeway just becoming I-43.

Curious how this would work.  Would 94 and 55 be routed on I-894?  That would give Wisconsin another Interstate triplex, 43/55/94!  Kind of coool. Or would 94 keep it's current route?  I think 55 would make sense to route via 894 and then continuing north via the Zoo Freeway and intersecting with the current US 41 corridor.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: agentsteel53 on May 24, 2012, 11:01:41 AM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 24, 2012, 10:44:37 AM
They made things work when I-39 entered the state, but granted WI-39 doesn't intersect 90/39.  Does Wisconsin have some aversion to using single digit routes?  1,3,4,5,6,7, and 9 are all available as well.


as far as I can tell, no single-digit state route has ever been on the books.  so, yes.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on May 24, 2012, 12:11:14 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 24, 2012, 10:44:37 AM
QuoteWell, there already is a 'WI 155', but '255' is available.  Among two-digit numbers, '62', '84' and '99' are available.

They made things work when I-39 entered the state, but granted WI-39 doesn't intersect 90/39.  Does Wisconsin have some aversion to using single digit routes?  1,3,4,5,6,7, and 9 are all available as well.

As mentioned above, it seems so.

Quote from: OCGuy81 on May 24, 2012, 10:44:37 AM
QuoteIf anything, with US 41 becoming either I-55, 57 or even 65, I can see I-94 also being rerouted to replace I-894, with the East-West Freeway east of the Zoo Interchange becoming I-794 and the I-94 part of the North-South Freeway just becoming I-43.

Curious how this would work.  Would 94 and 55 be routed on I-894?  That would give Wisconsin another Interstate triplex, 43/55/94!  Kind of coool. Or would 94 keep it's current route?  I think 55 would make sense to route via 894 and then continuing north via the Zoo Freeway and intersecting with the current US 41 corridor.

The current plan for whatever number is chosen is for it to follow I-894 and US 45 around Metro Milwaukee.  That is the logical routing for those transiting the area between Chicagoland and the Fox Valley (Fond du Lac, Oshkosh, Appleton, etc) and right now has no single route number covering its entire length.  There are a couple of overhead BGSs on souteastbound US 41/45 (future I-xx) by the Milwaukee-Waukesha County line, in the area of 124th St and the WI 145 Granville Interchange, that include 'To I-894 Bypass' as a control.

See:
http://maps.google.com/?ll=43.164653,-88.070569&spn=0.008999,0.013797&t=k&z=16&layer=c&cbll=43.164741,-88.070698&panoid=9H5BInu_TQDQAbIIl7V9uQ&cbp=12,122.51,,0,-8.22
for an example.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on May 24, 2012, 12:16:55 PM
Quote from: on_wisconsin on May 23, 2012, 09:09:44 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on May 22, 2012, 09:12:24 PM
IMHO, the really big bugaboo with '55', though, is in Chicagoland.
One way WisDOT could potentially save themselves a lot of headaches is to deal with the Illinois Tollway (I-294 Tri-state) instead of dealing with only the Illinois DOT (I-94 Kennedy- Edens).

That would still require that the Stevenson be renumbered from there to Lake Shore Drive.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: OCGuy81 on May 24, 2012, 01:00:20 PM
QuoteThat would still require that the Stevenson be renumbered from there to Lake Shore Drive.

I-555?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on May 24, 2012, 04:17:09 PM
I suppose, routing 94 onto 894 would allow for easier upgrading/reconstruction in the future. There was something in the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel a while back that had one of the former mayors (who was extremely anti-freeway), planning to do just that, except turn 794 into an Urban Boulevard. Interesting view on the spurs...is there something that determines what freeway gets the spur (In Green Bay's case, I-43 or I-55)?

One would think, in regards to the Spring Meeting discussion of I-55, that if FHWA is going to coordinate with IDOT, that IDOT really can't back down, can they? ...

I guess with 55 in mind, now the question remains, do they route it up 294 — Tristate, or the Dan Ryan/Edens? And for those concerned with IDOT and Illinois Numbering, do they finish IL-53, route it back to the new 55 and change THAT number to 2/4/6/8-55? My thought was that at some juncture in the future, they would connect IL-53 to the current US12 freeway in WI and make a Chicago/Madison route. So many options, so little money (as I read) from IDOT to do anything.

...
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Jordanah1 on May 24, 2012, 09:34:43 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on May 21, 2012, 10:46:36 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 21, 2012, 09:32:29 PM
Why would two border state transportation agencies hate each other the way Kim indicates Wisconsin and Illinois do?

And isn't I-47 available?





Yes, it is, but just like with '55', WI 47 intersects US 41 here in Appleton.  WI 47 is, regionally, a much more important highway than WI 55 is, too.

Mike

i went to the interstate conversion meeting at the FVT oshkosh riverside campus, and they had 4 numbers on a map....I-41 extending from illinois bornder to green bay(assumingly would travel further south), I-47 from mitchel interchange-green bay, I-X43from hale interchange-green bay, and I-X94 from the zoo interchange-green bay.i think the X's were a 5 and a 7, but dont quote me on that.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Revive 755 on May 24, 2012, 10:31:53 PM
Article in the Fond du Lac paper suggest I-41, I-47, I-55, I-594, or I-643:

http://www.fdlreporter.com/article/20120524/FON0101/205240352/-Interstate-41-would-benefit-FdL-area-officials-say?odyssey=nav|head (http://www.fdlreporter.com/article/20120524/FON0101/205240352/-Interstate-41-would-benefit-FdL-area-officials-say?odyssey=nav%7Chead)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mukade on May 24, 2012, 11:44:23 PM
Wow, what a bad list of potential route numbers. Are they pulling numbers out of the air? I-41 and I-47 would be barely better than a 3di and would result in yet another intrastate Interstate. Where did I-47 come from? At least I-41 fits between I-39 and I-43.

Wisconsin ranks 20th in population, and it does not have an I-x5. There are currently 5 states in the lower 48 without an I-x5 Interstate unless I missed some:
(Arizona barely makes the list, I realize)

So on this basis, I-55 or I-65 make more sense with I-57 certainly being a better alternative than I-41 or I-47.

I think you could poll long distance southbound travelers from Green bay and Appleton to get a good idea where most go (and eliminate those not going through Chicago). That would be the best way to determine the best number, and let the chips fall where they may.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on May 25, 2012, 12:22:32 AM
I also would like to know where these numbers came from (except for 55 of course). I can't believe the DOT would promote breaking a rule like the repeat USH/Int numbering...and here we go again with the dang x43/x94s...they're messing with us now! They make public the information that AASHTO or whomever, is going to have FHWA coordinate with IDOT to get I-55 brought up from Chicago...what, did IDOT issue a negative response already or something? From the sounds of it, 55 sounded like a pretty done deal, basically just awaiting FHWA approval. OK just a little frustration. 47 wouldn't work though either because there is a WIS 47 that would intersect, just as WIS 55 will. And I agree, that would be JUST what WI needs is another Intrastate Interstate. To quote a former president, these people just need to brainificate.

I suppose, that just gives us more to talk about and make conjectures. Glad I didn't put more than a fake-money bet on I-55...yet...

Though I could be completely off base here and they just threw 47 out there (and maybe these x43/x94s too) for a backup...albeit MULTIPLE backups...Yeah let's hope for that. Because I mean really...From the Hale to the Zoo interchange, a duplex of 2 3di's? I'm sure it's been done before...but I am biased against 3di's so it makes it all better. :)

47......SMH!
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: english si on May 25, 2012, 05:08:41 AM
Quote from: merrycilantro on May 25, 2012, 12:22:32 AMI can't believe the DOT would promote breaking a rule like the repeat USH/Int numbering.
I can't believe that such a rule is cared about, especially so passionately, in this case - given that the US route can easily be rerouted a short distance so as to be concurrent with the grid-fitting interstate number. As mentioned upthread by a local, it's called "the 41", so that doesn't have to change with such a number. It's a rule that says "Drivers are massive dumb asses", and while the I-74/US74 freeway split in NC could be confusing to such stupid drivers that can't tell the difference between the two different shields, sensible things like this with the Interstate and US route not intersecting, or splitting, but running concurrently, can't happen - not about navigation, or safety, but about anal-retentiveness.

The only problem with it is that you won't get IDOT to sign it, meaning it would be intrastate. I don't see how that would be a problem, anyway - a little bit with I-x43 (less so with I-x94). There's quite a few longish 3dis that could have been 2dis, but no complaints - I-555 could have been an I-22 extension, for instance. I don't hear those places on I-86 (both, though I know that there's some short bits in PA, like they matter), I-87, or I-88 (both), and so on complaining about their interstate only being intrastate - because they are on the network and that's what matters. Would this discussion be happening if I-43 went to Bloomington, as WiDOT planned, rather than I-39? probably not if there wasn't the "can't have I-41 due to the rule crowd".

Clearly the problem was in the beginning with I-94 being used from the start for the N-S interstate between Chicago and Milwaukee. It's annoying that Chicago has some N-S interstates end, and Milwaukee will have one start (probably at the IL line with I-41) - and an I-x5 number would give it some prestige. But if you read back in this thread, roadgeeks have tried to avoid I-55 - preferring I-57, or even I-65 to that number - I-57 has been the clear favourite number to extend from Chicago to Green Bay among roadgeeks and other numbers have been purely about WI57 needing renumbering.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: tchafe1978 on May 26, 2012, 11:30:56 AM
I don't get the whole fuss over what interstate number US 41 gets. It's not that big of a deal, really. If I had a choice, I'd make it I-41 and run it concurrent with US 41. I have friends in the Oshkosh area, and everyone there refers to the highway as "highway 41" or just "41". It would save a lot of confusion and a lot of having to renumber other highways if it just stayed as "41". ANybody who's using the highway already knows the quality of the road, so I don't see what difference a red, white, and blue sign will make, but that's just me.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on May 27, 2012, 12:02:44 AM
Regardless of the number, locals will always refer to Wisconsin's newest interstate as "41". It's what happened with the I-39 extension to Wausau. People continue to call it 51. That won't go away no matter what they number the freeway.

Here's my thing. When you have a US Highway, for a non-local, you never really know what to expect, really. You might have a 2 lane rural road, you might have an urban arterial going through a bustling downtown, or you might have a fully interstate-standard freeway. You just never know. (Like I said, unless you're a local and know better). Many people plan their road trips based on the Interstates to where they're going, because they know, hey, I'm getting at the very least, a 4 lane, divided freeway with limited access only at interchanges. Most people look to get from Point A to Point B in the quickest way possible, and they know they can do that with an Interstate. Even 4 lane divided highways with US Highway designation will downgrade into something less desirable for quick travel. Does not happen with Interstates. (Not considering the traffic aspect of it).

I do believe it will bring more traffic to the area, because it will put Fond du Lac, Oshkosh and Appleton on the map, so to speak. It'll also bring more truck traffic, regardless of any weight restrictions 41 currently has. All three of these towns have Walmarts, Targets, malls...and are the only 50,000+ cities not currently served by an interstate, save for Texas and California as I have read on here. As for economic benefits, that is not my area of expertise. One will simply have to check back with us in 5-10 years to see how we're doing. I hope it does spur more economic development; our state needs it (not that other states don't). So yes, having red white and blue shields on 41 will undoubtedly bring more traffic to the area, be it consumer, business or personal.

The grid system in this nation is completely screwed up. Especially east of the Mississippi River. I think the only thing that could solve this "numbering system crisis" (term used loosely), would be a *MASS* renumbering of every Interstate Freeway from LA to Boston. The Eisenhower Interstate System of the 40's and 50's is considered a mere skeleton compared to today's network of Interstate Freeways. I don't even know that Eisenhower himself envisioned it being as complex as it currently is. Be that as it may, the grid system can't really be perfect due to the shape of the nation. Look at all the x5 freeways, which are supposed to go from north to south as main trans-continent. OK...5-good. 15-good. 25-good...ish. Montana gets the shaft. 35-good. 45-what? it's only in Texas? How does that work. 55-good...ish. The Midwest doesn't end with Chicago. Wisconsin gets the shaft, as does the UP. but they get 75. 65-same concept. Michigan or Wisconsin get the shaft, depending on what way you look at it. 75-good. 85-what the hell were they thinking? 95-great.

And wouldn't it be nice to have one cohesive number going from Chicago north into Badgerland, through Milwaukee and the Fox Cities? "Grandpa, how do I get to your house?" "Well okay, you take 94 out of Chicago, up through Milwaukee, and then you take the 894 bypass till it turns into Highway 45, then follow that. It's gonna turn into Highway 41, but don't worry, you're on the same road. And you take that all the way to Appleton." as opposed to "Take 55 from Chicago all the way up." I'm not saying people are stupid, and that they don't have GPS, but if the Grandson is not familiar with the area, there could be a lot of confusion as opposed to just following the I-55 sign.

I say it is a slap in the face to turn it into a spur, 243, 594 or whatever, because the whole premise behind promoting 41 to an interstate is to bring economic business to the area (among other things). Let's assume this to be true, that it will in fact spur business and that this is how they think. What business will be like "Let's build over there on that spur?" The only type of economic business it'll bring will be from Milwaukee, because "Oh hey look there's a spur around the mainline 43!" Promoting it to 55, say, they'll bring business from not just Milwaukee but Chicago - one of the nation's leading economic centers - St Louis, Memphis and New Orleans. The same holds true for an Intrastate (41, 47, or whatever other number they threw out there). Making it a spur or an intrastate will only help locals, and we want to open Wisconsin's door to the rest of the nation. At least I *THINK* that's the goal here. If *ANYTHING* should be a spur, it should be US 53 from Superior to Eau Claire. Extend 535.

All it takes from IDOT is placement of signs on what are already interstate freeways. Slap a "55" sign next to 90, 94, 294, however you want to route it. Put the prison system to work to make the signs, not just in IL but in WI too. Wisconsin has enough prisoners, and I'm sure Illinois has its fair share too. They already make license plates. Boom. Cheap labor. done. (Shouldn't even pay them anyway...) Sure, some overhead signs will have to be amended and redone because there's currently no room for another shield.

What is the hold up? An argument over a number in an otherwise messed up grid system? Who cares! I know! But unless they're going to do a spur, any number they have will break someone's rule that you can't have a state/US highway with an Interstate number. Regardless of what's done in NC. Ironically enough, Wisconsin started the whole road numbering process, circa 1918 if my memory serves me correctly. What that has to do with this argument, I couldn't tell ya. But you look at the numbers we are throwing out there. 41 - US Highway. Rule breaker. 47 - WIS highway, which intersects the Interstate-to-be in question. Rule Breaker. 55, 57, 65, 243 - Rule breakers, WIS highways in the general vicinity. AND, none of them are even in the grid. (well besides 243 but as I have said I am anti- that number and any other 3di) You see what I am saying? There really isn't any other option, other than to slap Wisconsin in the face and say here here's a spur number. Deal with it and shut up. Sure, that'll give us the Interstate we want, but not for the purpose we want it for.

I should have gone to that meeting on the 23rd!!
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: on_wisconsin on May 27, 2012, 02:00:46 AM
Remember the only tangible evidence we have is that the AASHTO is strongly leaning toward I-55, maybe the folks who ran that exact PIM where not informed of the latest AASHTO meeting happenings.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Brandon on May 27, 2012, 09:11:06 AM
Quote from: on_wisconsin on May 27, 2012, 02:00:46 AM
Remember the only tangible evidence we have is that the AASHTO is strongly leaning toward I-55, maybe the folks who ran that exact PIM where not informed of the latest AASHTO meeting happenings.

AASHTO can lean where they want.  It's getting IDOT do work with them that's the problem.  IDOT gave WisDOT the finger back when I-39 was numbered in 1988.  WisDOT wanted an I-43 extension, IDOT chose I-39 and signed it.  Wouldn't surprise me if IDOT did the same again.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on May 27, 2012, 11:56:19 AM
Quote from: Brandon on May 27, 2012, 09:11:06 AM
Quote from: on_wisconsin on May 27, 2012, 02:00:46 AM
Remember the only tangible evidence we have is that the AASHTO is strongly leaning toward I-55, maybe the folks who ran that exact PIM where not informed of the latest AASHTO meeting happenings.

AASHTO can lean where they want.  It's getting IDOT do work with them that's the problem.  IDOT gave WisDOT the finger back when I-39 was numbered in 1988.  WisDOT wanted an I-43 extension, IDOT chose I-39 and signed it.  Wouldn't surprise me if IDOT did the same again.

Can they do that? I mean can a state agency argue and completely blow off a federal agency? Wouldn't there be repercussions for IDOT? Not saying I don't believe you, it just boggles my mind that IDOT would have the audacity to thumb its nose at 2 federal agencies.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Mdcastle on May 27, 2012, 02:22:36 PM
Roadgeeks and politicians may be passionate about this, but I guess I'm dubious as to whether businessess really make decisions on where to locate based on the color and shape and what and how many digits are on the signs on the nearby freeway. But having said that I'd like I-57. It's out of order but on the other hand the Dan Ryan, Kennedy, and part of the Tri-State could actually be signed north-south like the actual directions they go.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Brandon on May 27, 2012, 02:47:01 PM
Quote from: merrycilantro on May 27, 2012, 11:56:19 AM
Quote from: Brandon on May 27, 2012, 09:11:06 AM
Quote from: on_wisconsin on May 27, 2012, 02:00:46 AM
Remember the only tangible evidence we have is that the AASHTO is strongly leaning toward I-55, maybe the folks who ran that exact PIM where not informed of the latest AASHTO meeting happenings.

AASHTO can lean where they want.  It's getting IDOT do work with them that's the problem.  IDOT gave WisDOT the finger back when I-39 was numbered in 1988.  WisDOT wanted an I-43 extension, IDOT chose I-39 and signed it.  Wouldn't surprise me if IDOT did the same again.

Can they do that? I mean can a state agency argue and completely blow off a federal agency? Wouldn't there be repercussions for IDOT? Not saying I don't believe you, it just boggles my mind that IDOT would have the audacity to thumb its nose at 2 federal agencies.

One Federal agency - FHWA.  AASHTO is not a Federal agency.  Plus, FHWA does not choose or approve numbering.  AASHTO does, and they've been given the finger by states before (Oklahoma and US-377 comes to mind).

Having gone back and forth to the Indiana Dunes yesterday, I believe I-65 is an even stronger candidate to go to Wisconsin than I-55, if an I-x5 must be used.  The ramps from eastbound I-80/94 to southbound I-65 and from northbound I-65 to westbound I-80/94 are both two-lanes.  Thus, routing I-65 over I-94 to Milwaukee would be fairly easy and require no reconstruction of any ramps.  All that would be needed is signage.  The short section from I-80/94 to US-12/20 could become I-165 (or I-665 for the anal since is does meet I-90 just before US-12/20).
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: froggie on May 28, 2012, 09:36:44 AM
QuotePlus, FHWA does not choose or approve numbering.

Actually, yes they do.  FHWA has final approval on Interstate numbering/renumbering.  This is why AASHTO's decisions on such are always "Conditional Approval", pending a letter of approval by FHWA.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mukade on May 28, 2012, 12:55:41 PM
Quote from: Brandon on May 27, 2012, 02:47:01 PM
Having gone back and forth to the Indiana Dunes yesterday, I believe I-65 is an even stronger candidate to go to Wisconsin than I-55, if an I-x5 must be used.  The ramps from eastbound I-80/94 to southbound I-65 and from northbound I-65 to westbound I-80/94 are both two-lanes.  Thus, routing I-65 over I-94 to Milwaukee would be fairly easy and require no reconstruction of any ramps.  All that would be needed is signage.  The short section from I-80/94 to US-12/20 could become I-165 (or I-665 for the anal since is does meet I-90 just before US-12/20).

I hope you went to West Beach in the National Lakeshore. It is an amazing place so close to Chicago. When I lived up there, I would wonder why it was usually so empty, but I bet it was packed yesterday.

Back on subject, the I-65/Borman interchange construction cost something like $100M and took four years to build. As you said, it is two lanes between the highways both ways and has good merges. My brother who lives in Chicago says it is the second busiest interchange in the Chicago area (is that true?). The Borman Expressway is the defacto extension of I-65 as a large majority of traffic exits there.

Peeling back a layer, we know the upgraded highway in Wisconsin will get an Interstate designation, and we know that WisDOT wants that number to continue south into Illinois. Why it is a wider discussion is that it would affect Chicago and regional highway routings. I think what some people may be missing in this discussion is that both I-65 and I-57 would be "free" other than signage costs exactly as you said (e.g. no Dan Ryan and Kennedy widenings). Although I personally think the I-94 number from Milwaukee to Chicago is really stupid and confusing so I favor fixing that with this change, if money is the overriding issue, I-65 simply replacing I-294 would be the most inexpensive.

As your post suggests, for those who favor I-55, they need to consider the cost to upgrade either of the I-55 interchanges (either at I-94 or I-294). IDOT or ISTHA would be absolutely right to fight that plan so hopefully WisDOT carefully thinks this through. Exactly why does WisDOT favor the most expensive option for Illinois? And that would be for an illogical route that few people from Milwaukee and northward would use to travel south past Chicago.

This is a real opportunity where both the infrastructure is in place and the legitimate will of a state to extend a route is there. Yeah, it is a roadgeek's dream, but it just objectively makes sense.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Jordanah1 on May 28, 2012, 02:03:00 PM
Quote from: merrycilantro on May 27, 2012, 12:02:44 AM
Here's my thing. When you have a US Highway, for a non-local, you never really know what to expect, really. You might have a 2 lane rural road, you might have an urban arterial going through a bustling downtown, or you might have a fully interstate-standard freeway. You just never know. (Like I said, unless you're a local and know better). Many people plan their road trips based on the Interstates to where they're going, because they know, hey, I'm getting at the very least, a 4 lane, divided freeway with limited access only at interchanges. Most people look to get from Point A to Point B in the quickest way possible, and they know they can do that with an Interstate. Even 4 lane divided highways with US Highway designation will downgrade into something less desirable for quick travel. Does not happen with Interstates. (Not considering the traffic aspect of it).


And wouldn't it be nice to have one cohesive number going from Chicago north into Badgerland, through Milwaukee and the Fox Cities? "Grandpa, how do I get to your house?" "Well okay, you take 94 out of Chicago, up through Milwaukee, and then you take the 894 bypass till it turns into Highway 45, then follow that. It's gonna turn into Highway 41, but don't worry, you're on the same road. And you take that all the way to Appleton." as opposed to "Take 55 from Chicago all the way up." I'm not saying people are stupid, and that they don't have GPS, but if the Grandson is not familiar with the area, there could be a lot of confusion as opposed to just following the I-55 sign.


well, wisconsin uses the same color line on its state maps for all freeways-interstate or not, but other maps dont.

google maps as you zoom in however, only has US41 marked as a freeway from Green Bay to oshkosh, no road at all marked south to fond du lac and milwaukee, and instead has US41 turns into WI44 going to ripon? idk wtf google thinks, but they are idiots...all i will say.

GPS's arent that great either, my ever so brilliant sister used a gps to get from green bay to appleton, and it told her to take I43 to US10, obviously a bad route choice, but of coarse she couldnt even folow those directions right, and called at midnight in sheboygan lol.... dont always trust gps's.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on May 28, 2012, 02:06:53 PM
Would anyone require IDOT or ISTHA to upgrade either of the I-55 interchanges?  I mean, there are plenty of instances that are similar to the situation that Illinois would face with this right?  Unless you believe that the "traffic would follow the number," but do we have evidence that this occurs?  I can think of multiple incidents where I-94 is cut down to one lane in interchanges in both Wisconsin and Illinois for instance...

Anyway, I think the cheapest option would be I-57.  You don't have to re-route any interstates in Chicago...simply extend it northward from its current endpoint.  You would have to re-number WI-57 in Wisconsin, but you would need that with I-55 too.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hbelkins on May 28, 2012, 02:18:49 PM
Geez. A 3di isn't going to kill anyone. I don't hear Scranton, Wilkes-Barre or Allentown whining that the NE Extension got I-476 instead of a two-digit number.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hobsini2 on May 28, 2012, 03:42:02 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 28, 2012, 02:18:49 PM
Geez. A 3di isn't going to kill anyone. I don't hear Scranton, Wilkes-Barre or Allentown whining that the NE Extension got I-476 instead of a two-digit number.

The difference HB is the US 41 interstate is rougly going to be 120 miles with the likelyhood of WI 441 becoming a 3di.  I can't think of any instance where a 3di is the parent of another 3di. Calling it I-243 with I-443 or I-894 with I-494 for example is wrong. Besides, I-476 north of I-76 should be a odd number.  Even number 3dis unless they are a complete loop generally don't go more than 50 miles.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mukade on May 28, 2012, 03:54:04 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 28, 2012, 02:18:49 PM
Geez. A 3di isn't going to kill anyone. I don't hear Scranton, Wilkes-Barre or Allentown whining that the NE Extension got I-476 instead of a two-digit number.

Well, I-99 and I-238 also don't kill anyone, but they are still very bad choices.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mukade on May 28, 2012, 04:26:04 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 28, 2012, 02:06:53 PM
Would anyone require IDOT or ISTHA to upgrade either of the I-55 interchanges? 

If you have other options, why would you want to have this sub-optimal situation? If traffic isn't going to follow the route number when it changes roads, why would that be a good choice?

Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 28, 2012, 02:06:53 PM
Anyway, I think the cheapest option would be I-57.  You don't have to re-route any interstates in Chicago...simply extend it northward from its current endpoint.  You would have to re-number WI-57 in Wisconsin, but you would need that with I-55 too.

I-57 obviously should be considered. It is a straight shot and really only signage would need to be changed. The question is whether or not it would be the best choice. Objectively, I-57 is a relatively minor Interstate (compared to I-55 and I-65) that hits no more major cities south of Chicago. It looks good on a map, though.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on May 28, 2012, 05:10:10 PM
Quote from: mukade on May 28, 2012, 04:26:04 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 28, 2012, 02:06:53 PM
Would anyone require IDOT or ISTHA to upgrade either of the I-55 interchanges? 

If you have other options, why would you want to have this sub-optimal situation? If traffic isn't going to follow the route number when it changes roads, why would that be a good choice?

Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 28, 2012, 02:06:53 PM
Anyway, I think the cheapest option would be I-57.  You don't have to re-route any interstates in Chicago...simply extend it northward from its current endpoint.  You would have to re-number WI-57 in Wisconsin, but you would need that with I-55 too.

I-57 obviously should be considered. It is a straight shot and really only signage would need to be changed. The question is whether or not it would be the best choice. Objectively, I-57 is a relatively minor Interstate (compared to I-55 and I-65) that hits no more major cities south of Chicago. It looks good on a map, though.


Well, you answered the question of "why would you want to have this sub-optimal situation" with your response below...I-57 is a relatively minor interstate.

I-55 and I-65 are major interstates...but they would require re-routing and new numbers in Chicago to make it work.

A 3di makes little sense.

An I-41 type choice doesn't make sense because of the intrastate issue, but that doesn't bother me as much as others.

So that means I-57.  As a benefit it also solves the I-94 N/S problem between Chicago and Milwaukee.  It would require renumbering of WI-57, but I think WIDOT could use that as an opportunity to get rid of a couple long duplexes.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mukade on May 28, 2012, 06:45:27 PM
Agreed on most of your points, but the reroutings of 55 and 65 would both be very short (<2 miles) to the point it is not an issue. I-65 would also have the addition complication of getting buy-in from another state.

Of all people leaving southbound from Appleton, Oshkosh, etc., where would more of them pass? Joliet, IL? Matteson, IL? Merrillville, IN? If they could be counted, that should at least be a factor in determining the number.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: on_wisconsin on May 28, 2012, 07:56:32 PM
At this point as long as its not a god damn 3di I will be content. (So we can get back to talking about the physical construction going on...)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hbelkins on May 28, 2012, 10:28:30 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on May 28, 2012, 03:42:02 PM
I can't think of any instance where a 3di is the parent of another 3di.

I-795 in Maryland says hello. So does I-990 in New York.

Quote from: mukade on May 28, 2012, 03:54:04 PM
Well, I-99 and I-238 also don't kill anyone, but they are still very bad choices.

I-238, maybe, because there is no I-38 in California. But what else would you call a two-state interstate? I-99 is a more appropriate number for that route than any 3di.

Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 28, 2012, 05:10:10 PM
As a benefit it also solves the I-94 N/S problem between Chicago and Milwaukee.  It would require renumbering of WI-57, but I think WIDOT could use that as an opportunity to get rid of a couple long duplexes.

How does it solve the I-94 problem? I-94 is still going to run from Chicago to Milwaukee, unless you want to supplant I-94 with I-55 or I-57 or I-65 and have two separate sections of I-94, one ending at Milwaukee and another beginning at Gary.

Quote from: on_wisconsin on May 28, 2012, 07:56:32 PM
At this point as long as its not a god damn 3di I will be content. (So we can get back to talking about the physical construction going on...)

I finally looked at the map to see where this will run. It's another, longer, westerly route from Green Bay to Milwaukee. It doesn't deserve its own two-digit number. Any of the proposed numbers would break the grid, which seems to be a big sin for some, because I-55/57/65 would run west of I-43. A 3di would be perfectly fine. The ideal solution would be I-43E and I-43W if you have to have a two-digit number. But we know that won't happen.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mukade on May 28, 2012, 11:11:06 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 28, 2012, 10:28:30 PM
I-99 is a more appropriate number for that route than any 3di.

If I-99 gets extended, perhaps. As it stands, I-99 is 86 miles and I-476 is 132 miles. The US 41 section in Wisconsin is 142 miles. It (or I-43) could conceivably be extended north at some point in the future.

Quote from: hbelkins on May 28, 2012, 10:28:30 PM
How does it solve the I-94 problem? I-94 is still going to run from Chicago to Milwaukee, unless you want to supplant I-94 with I-55 or I-57 or I-65 and have two separate sections of I-94, one ending at Milwaukee and another beginning at Gary.

It mitigates the problem it if the top/first route number becomes the N-S one. For example, having northbound Edens, northbound Dan Ryan, etc. matching the cardinal direction posted would solve a lot of confusion. All people want is for it to match reality - nothing more. While what is I-94 should have been two routes as originally planned, it is far too late to change it now.

Quote from: hbelkins on May 28, 2012, 10:28:30 PM
Any of the proposed numbers would break the grid, which seems to be a big sin for some, because I-55/57/65 would run west of I-43.

Technically, I-39 and I-43 broke the grid. I-45 and now I-49 are considerably further west than either of these. 55, 57, and 65 were there in Chicago a long time before 39 and 43 came into being. I think it is expected that most routes meander to a degree so that mitigates the sin, don't you think? I can't think of many that don't meander.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Stratuscaster on May 28, 2012, 11:59:15 PM
This "problem" with 94 through Chicago and Milwaukee has existed for decades - so long that it's actually not a problem, in my opinion. While there may be some that view it as a problem, there are plenty more that accept it for the oddity that it is.

Going from Chicagoland to Milwaukee? 94 (Or, 294 to 94 if you are out in the burbs.) If the BGS says "Indiana" you went the wrong way.
Going to Chicagoland to Madison? 90. If the BGS says "O'Hare", "Chicago", or "Indiana", you went the wrong way.
Going to Chicagoland to Green Bay? 94 to 43. If the signs say "Madison" or "Beloit", you went the wrong way.

For those in Wisconsin that think it's wrong to have I-94 WEST head north to Milwaukee, well that's why you have US 41 NORTH along for the ride. ;)

If Wisconsin wants I-55 bad enough, let them pay to fix the Ryan/Stevenson interchange. If it even NEEDS to be fixed. The only thing that will change will be for the NEXT generation of drivers. The current and past generations know that 55 goes to Chicago and ends. Extending it will mean nothing to them, because if they were taking 55 from the south to get to Milwaukee or Green Bay, they would likely have gotten off on 294 north in the first place.

Compare Green Bay's population with Champaign-Urbana - I-57 would do just fine, even though it's only a "minor" interstate.

I don't think breaking the grid is really an issue for anyone but the roadgeek community. No one I know navigates based on the grid system.

Again, despite the length, a 3di makes the most sense here. I think that means it's automatically disqualified from contention. :lol:

I'll stop here - I think I've repeated myself enough. ;)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on May 29, 2012, 03:27:19 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 28, 2012, 10:28:30 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on May 28, 2012, 03:42:02 PM
I can't think of any instance where a 3di is the parent of another 3di.

I-795 in Maryland says hello. So does I-990 in New York.

Quote from: mukade on May 28, 2012, 03:54:04 PM
Well, I-99 and I-238 also don't kill anyone, but they are still very bad choices.

I-238, maybe, because there is no I-38 in California. But what else would you call a two-state interstate? I-99 is a more appropriate number for that route than any 3di.

Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 28, 2012, 05:10:10 PM
As a benefit it also solves the I-94 N/S problem between Chicago and Milwaukee.  It would require renumbering of WI-57, but I think WIDOT could use that as an opportunity to get rid of a couple long duplexes.

How does it solve the I-94 problem? I-94 is still going to run from Chicago to Milwaukee, unless you want to supplant I-94 with I-55 or I-57 or I-65 and have two separate sections of I-94, one ending at Milwaukee and another beginning at Gary.

Quote from: on_wisconsin on May 28, 2012, 07:56:32 PM
At this point as long as its not a god damn 3di I will be content. (So we can get back to talking about the physical construction going on...)

I finally looked at the map to see where this will run. It's another, longer, westerly route from Green Bay to Milwaukee. It doesn't deserve its own two-digit number. Any of the proposed numbers would break the grid, which seems to be a big sin for some, because I-55/57/65 would run west of I-43. A 3di would be perfectly fine. The ideal solution would be I-43E and I-43W if you have to have a two-digit number. But we know that won't happen.

US 41 is far, far busier than I-43 north of Milwaukee.  Remember that parts of US 41 already are or are currently being upgraded to six lanes - with some sections of the highway running over 100K AADT.

Why was I-43 completed 30+ years earlier?  It was cheaper and faster to do I-43 on a virgin ROW than it was to upgrade the already four-lanes non-freeway US 41, just like with I-5 v. US 99 in California's central valley.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on May 29, 2012, 09:07:18 AM
Correct, a 3di doesn't make a lot of sense because US-41 is by far the more heavily traveled route.  If you live in the western Milwaukee suburbs and points west (including Madison), you are taking US-41 up to Green Bay and not driving through the city to I-43.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hbelkins on May 29, 2012, 09:48:00 AM
Quote from: mukade on May 28, 2012, 11:11:06 PM
If I-99 gets extended, perhaps. As it stands, I-99 is 86 miles and I-476 is 132 miles. The US 41 section in Wisconsin is 142 miles. It (or I-43) could conceivably be extended north at some point in the future.

I-99 will eventually go all the way to Corning, NY, and really should take over I-390 and be extended all the way to Rochester.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Stratuscaster on May 29, 2012, 09:01:34 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 29, 2012, 09:07:18 AM
Correct, a 3di doesn't make a lot of sense because US-41 is by far the more heavily traveled route.  If you live in the western Milwaukee suburbs and points west (including Madison), you are taking US-41 up to Green Bay and not driving through the city to I-43.
Pretty much the same thing with Chicagoland and I-294. Those in the western suburbs aren't going to drive into Chicago to get on I-94. I'd venture to guess - but admittedly do not know for fact - that I-294 carries more traffic than I-94 between the WI state line and O'Hare - if not all the way from the I-80/94/294 junction.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: kphoger on May 29, 2012, 09:10:58 PM
3di versus 2di shouldn't depend on traffic counts, appeal to businesses, or what have you, but rather on the route's history and function in the overall scheme.  Is it a branch (/spur/loop) off another highway?  Then give it a 3-digit number.  Is it a whole corridor in its own right?  Then give it a 2-digit number.  If that question is hard to answer, then I would lean toward its being a corridor in its own right.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: JREwing78 on May 30, 2012, 05:49:31 AM
Quote from: kphoger on May 29, 2012, 09:10:58 PM
3di versus 2di shouldn't depend on traffic counts, appeal to businesses, or what have you, but rather on the route's history and function in the overall scheme.  Is it a branch (/spur/loop) off another highway?  Then give it a 3-digit number.  Is it a whole corridor in its own right?  Then give it a 2-digit number.  If that question is hard to answer, then I would lean toward its being a corridor in its own right.

Given those standards, US-41 in Wisconsin certainly qualifies for a 2-di.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hobsini2 on May 30, 2012, 01:08:43 PM
HB, ok maybe i didnt qualify my statement enough. In both instances you mentioned of a 3di being a parent of another 3di, it was an odd number coming off the parent. Nowhere is there an even off a parent (don't start with that I-238 crap). This corridor does not justify I-243 or I-894 as some have proposed. Besides the pop of Appleton and the Fox Valley, Oshkosh, and Fond du Lac is bigger than the current I-43 corridor. By that account, the more important corridor is US 41 and not I-43.

And that still doesn't address the issue of the length of the 41 corridor (120 mi) that I mentioned earlier.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: TheStranger on May 30, 2012, 01:16:47 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on May 30, 2012, 01:08:43 PM
Nowhere is there an even off a parent (don't start with that I-238 crap).



I-135 (the former I-35W) in Kansas is the parent for I-235, and unsigned I-444 in Tulsa has I-244 as its parent route.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hobsini2 on May 30, 2012, 01:28:51 PM
Man i am not thinking at all today. I forgot about Tulsa but that is also as you say an unsigned route that is not longer than 5 miles.  You're talking about a short bypass of a bypass not something that will be 120 miles long.
And don't forget 441 is 10 miles.

I disagree though with the I-135 and 235 situation in Wichita. While technically 235 does start off 135, The sign off 35 do not say TO I-235. I have always considered the real start of 235 to be at this sign.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Wichita,+KS&aq=0&oq=Wichita+KS&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=33.626896,49.833984&vpsrc=6&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Wichita,+Sedgwick,+Kansas&ll=37.596076,-97.324104&spn=0.01656,0.024333&t=m&z=15&cbll=37.596287,-97.324209&panoid=APtc_Wm1115-PVl8o-orOA&cbp=12,13.17,,0,-13.97&ei=v1bGT9XrPIWSNYOgyfMO&pw=2
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Alps on May 30, 2012, 06:22:30 PM
Just because you want to be disagreeable doesn't make you right.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Alps on May 30, 2012, 08:01:22 PM
http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/highway-41-interstate-naming-could-boost-property-values-state-says-b85jub1-155835395.html

Another article today. Nothing really new, but just something interesting that will put to bed a few of the thoughts on here:
QuoteThe Highway 41 designation still would be used for the Stadium Freeway, on Appleton and Lisbon avenues on Milwaukee's northwest side, and north of Green Bay, transportation officials said.

For that reason, national guidelines would not allow the new interstate to be designated Interstate 41, Rabe said. The route number would be chosen by the American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials and the Federal Highway Administration, she said.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on May 30, 2012, 09:50:18 PM
Continuing the US-41 designation on the city streets of Milwaukee is just so damn annoying.  Seriously, just extend WI-175 along its route to the Stadium interchange and be done with it...or even have it take over WI-341 to end at WI-59 at National Avenue.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on May 31, 2012, 04:56:15 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 30, 2012, 09:50:18 PM
Continuing the US-41 designation on the city streets of Milwaukee is just so damn annoying.  Seriously, just extend WI-175 along its route to the Stadium interchange and be done with it...or even have it take over WI-341 to end at WI-59 at National Avenue.

This is one of the things I'll likely bring up at tonight's PIM in Wauwatosa.  (I'll be leaving within the hour.)   So look for that report later today maybe.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on May 31, 2012, 07:23:10 PM
They should truncate US 41 - gonna follow a highway most of the way anyway!  :P

j/k
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on May 31, 2012, 10:11:28 PM
Well I'm back from the PIM in Wauwatosa.  I had some good conversations with WisDOT people.  Lots of stuff to cover, so I'll just start rattling it off.

First of all, no surprise that WisDOT is apparently not getting much cooperation with the folks south of the border, so this seriously jeopardizes the extension of one of the Chicagoland interstates.  Apparently, some folks are zeroing in on I-55 because that's the only one that Illinois is even remotely considering going along with.  And even then, they are not very enthusiastic about it.  It seems unlikely that WisDOT will have the cooperation of their flatlander counterparts to submit simultaneous applications to AASHTO this fall.

There was one display with the following possible numbers on it:
41   (starts @ Mitchell Interchange)
47   (starts @ Mitchell Interchange)
594 (starts @ Zoo Interchange)
643 (starts @ Hale Interchange)

But it was mentioned that these were not the only ones under serious consideration; hence the buzz about 55.  I think Mike mentioned this from an earlier PIM, but 57 and 65 are almost certainly out.  It's going to be 55 or one of those ^^ I mentioned.

WisDOT is really high on getting a 2di for this corridor due in no small part to the 3di possibilities.  But mostly because of the perceived importance of a 2di.

I can confirm that WisDOT will likely move US 41 on to an all-freeway alignment in Milwaukee along with the new interstate.  They like the idea of matching US 41 and the new interstate throughout the length of the corridor.

I was told they are not considering dropping I-894 in favor of the new interstate at this time.  So 894 may become a useless duplex or we might even have another triplemultiplex (who, me?) in Wisconsin between the Hale and Mitchell interchanges.

The WisDOT people I spoke to said the number most people in the general public want at these meetings is 41.  I think they can see the grid and how nicely 41 fits between 39 and 43.  Plus, it's already 41.

Basically, every proposed number violates AASHTO numbering convention in some way, so WisDOT is looking for the one they could most easily talk them into.  And to that end, it was mentioned to me that WisDOT is interested in talking to folks from North Carolina about how they've been able to make AASHTO their bitch in recent decades (I'm paraphrasing, of course.)  Especially with that I-74/US 74 thing.

Despite Wisconsin's long standing non-duplication of numbers whether they be state, US or Interstate (prior to WI-39/I-39), nobody from WisDOT seemed overly concerned about duplicating any state highway number as the new interstate even though there is a WI 47, 55 and 57 in this part of Wisconsin.  So if they get I-55, they have no plans to renumber WI 55.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on June 01, 2012, 07:32:48 AM
Thank you very much for the update.  I am guessing that it is going to end up being I-41.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: froggie on June 01, 2012, 08:50:43 AM
QuoteNowhere is there an even off a parent (don't start with that I-238 crap).

I-695 in DC.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on June 02, 2012, 01:28:02 AM
Seriously IDOT? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't they be getting federal money to do the signing? It's not like we're asking them to build a new freeway, much less upgrade an existing one. All we want is signage. I would think that would create a few jobs too...but I'm not going to talk politics on a road blog. And why would they be so Anti-57/65? Now one more question would be, does this noncooperation on IDOT's part take into account that someone (I can't remember if it's AASHTO or FHWA) is supposed to mediate or work with IDOT to get the 55 extension? I could kick myself for not going to Fondy's PIM meeting...IDOT just needs to get their heads out of their asses and get the ball rolling to sign the road. How childish.

Don't get me wrong, I'm shaking my head at WisDOT too. Look at a map of North Carolina. The whole 73/74 corridor looks messed up and cluttered an non-cohesive. As I've stated before, the grid system in this nation (East especially) is already effed up, what difference would it make?

As for Milwaukee's realignment, it'd be easy enough just to extend either WIS 341 from Miller Park Way north onto the alignment for current US 41, or WIS 175 south along Appleton Ave. It's never going to get built to what it was originally planned to be anyway. They could also be creative and make a WIS highway with the new interstate's number (provided it's not 41 or a 3di)...but I'd assume they'd do the 341 extension.

Really would like to know where 47 mysteriously appeared from...worst comes to worst they could always do what they have in the Twin Cities, and go I-43W and I-43E...not sure that would work out well though, as this would go on for 120 some miles, and they've done away with most if not all the other E/W N/S routes.

Time will tell...we shall soon see who can back down first. But, as the song goes, "da Bears still suck". And where are the Bears? Chicago. nuff said.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Revive 755 on June 02, 2012, 09:55:22 AM
Quote from: merrycilantro on June 02, 2012, 01:28:02 AM
Really would like to know where 47 mysteriously appeared from...worst comes to worst they could always do what they have in the Twin Cities, and go I-43W and I-43E...not sure that would work out well though, as this would go on for 120 some miles, and they've done away with most if not all the other E/W N/S routes.

The option of I-47 probably came about since it is the next readily usable number that is not too badly out of place, is not already in use somewhere, and has no conflicting US routes.  But since WisDOT wants to take lessons from NCDOT, maybe they should try for a northern I-45.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: InterstateNG on June 02, 2012, 02:59:07 PM
How would a 100+ mile multiplex benefit Illinois in any way?  A third interstate on the Kennedy?  Great idea!  What's that?  Put it on the Tri-State?  Then everyone bitches about how it's on a toll road.

I'd be more understanding if the new facility was anywhere near the Illinois border.  But it doesn't, so I don't understand the desire to extend one of three designations that terminate south of the Loop, or in the case of 65, two states away.

Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on June 02, 2012, 06:00:20 PM
Quote from: InterstateNG on June 02, 2012, 02:59:07 PM
How would a 100+ mile multiplex benefit Illinois in any way?  A third interstate on the Kennedy?  Great idea!  What's that?  Put it on the Tri-State?  Then everyone bitches about how it's on a toll road.

I'd be more understanding if the new facility was anywhere near the Illinois border.  But it doesn't, so I don't understand the desire to extend one of three designations that terminate south of the Loop, or in the case of 65, two states away.


Simply extending I-57 would only require signage...it would require nothing else and would not increase traffic one bit.

The system is a national system and shouldn't be "held hostage" because bordering states don't want to participate.  That being said, I don't have a problem with an intrastate interstate.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on June 02, 2012, 07:58:47 PM
This discussion is sounding more and more like we're 'trash talking' the upcoming NFL season.  Right now, I'm just sitting back, eagerly waiting for the Week 1 games to start.

:spin:

Still, I will be submitting some commentary on those PIMs to WisDOT within the next week or so.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: InterstateNG on June 02, 2012, 08:32:14 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 02, 2012, 06:00:20 PM
Quote from: InterstateNG on June 02, 2012, 02:59:07 PM
How would a 100+ mile multiplex benefit Illinois in any way?  A third interstate on the Kennedy?  Great idea!  What's that?  Put it on the Tri-State?  Then everyone bitches about how it's on a toll road.

I'd be more understanding if the new facility was anywhere near the Illinois border.  But it doesn't, so I don't understand the desire to extend one of three designations that terminate south of the Loop, or in the case of 65, two states away.


Simply extending I-57 would only require signage...it would require nothing else and would not increase traffic one bit.

The system is a national system and shouldn't be "held hostage" because bordering states don't want to participate.  That being said, I don't have a problem with an intrastate interstate.

It just seems like an unnecessary and lengthy concurrency for a number that is different than what the locals prefer.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on June 02, 2012, 09:46:18 PM
Quote from: InterstateNG on June 02, 2012, 08:32:14 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 02, 2012, 06:00:20 PM
Quote from: InterstateNG on June 02, 2012, 02:59:07 PM
How would a 100+ mile multiplex benefit Illinois in any way?  A third interstate on the Kennedy?  Great idea!  What's that?  Put it on the Tri-State?  Then everyone bitches about how it's on a toll road.

I'd be more understanding if the new facility was anywhere near the Illinois border.  But it doesn't, so I don't understand the desire to extend one of three designations that terminate south of the Loop, or in the case of 65, two states away.


Simply extending I-57 would only require signage...it would require nothing else and would not increase traffic one bit.

The system is a national system and shouldn't be "held hostage" because bordering states don't want to participate.  That being said, I don't have a problem with an intrastate interstate.

It just seems like an unnecessary and lengthy concurrency for a number that is different than what the locals prefer.
unnecessary and lengthy concurrencies are something Wisconsin doesn't give a shit about. :-D
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on June 05, 2012, 12:05:22 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 02, 2012, 06:00:20 PM
Quote from: InterstateNG on June 02, 2012, 02:59:07 PM
How would a 100+ mile multiplex benefit Illinois in any way?  A third interstate on the Kennedy?  Great idea!  What's that?  Put it on the Tri-State?  Then everyone bitches about how it's on a toll road.

I'd be more understanding if the new facility was anywhere near the Illinois border.  But it doesn't, so I don't understand the desire to extend one of three designations that terminate south of the Loop, or in the case of 65, two states away.


Simply extending I-57 would only require signage...it would require nothing else and would not increase traffic one bit.

The system is a national system and shouldn't be "held hostage" because bordering states don't want to participate.  That being said, I don't have a problem with an intrastate interstate.

I agree. the Interstate System should not be held hostage, as it were. If Wisconsin wants a connection to the national grid, as opposed to an intrastate that would appeal really to locals, we are as entitled as Illinois. It should not be up to them to decide, and as I've said before, if there's federal funding involved, what's the big effin deal? I don't think what we need is another intrastate. Especially since I-39...well...might as well be, and 43 is. One good solid number - 55 - *yes i've switched teams to the I-55 side, as it appears highly unlikely that 65 will be chosen* coming up from Illinois, will give WI one cohesive number, like I-90, going from north to south. Throw us a frickin bone, IDOT. Yes, I'm well aware I went from football to movie quotes but it seems to work in this instance.

If WI breaks one rule, let it be that the damn number 55 is not in between 39 and 43.

And if Illinois wants to say no and thumb their nose up at us Wisconsinites, fine. Let's sign 94 from IL state line to the Mitchell Interchange, and then shoot 55 up the Bypass, just as they want. What's Illinois gonna do? Eventually, someone has to be like "You know what screw it. Sign the rest of it 55 and shut them cheeseheads up." There are Western routes and Eastern Routes...so we'll be the Northern 55 until IDOT finally rolls over and gives in.

There, problem solved.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on June 05, 2012, 12:23:59 AM
US 41 becomes I-43W, and I-43 becomes I-43E.

Problem solved!!   :poke:

:happy:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on June 05, 2012, 07:38:33 AM
Quote from: GeekJedi on June 05, 2012, 12:23:59 AM
US 41 becomes I-43W, and I-43 becomes I-43E.

Problem solved!!   :poke:

:happy:

You know that really wouldn't be a bad idea, seeing as how they'd have their origins and termini in both Milwaukee and Green Bay, respectively. I guess that would only work if it were shorter and had Twin Cities that were vying for the Major Route Number...

But I agree, that would be "Problem solved" as well!
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on June 05, 2012, 09:39:50 AM
No actually that would be worse.  Split interstates currently serve "twin cities" in the same metropolitan area....they don't run from one metropolitan area to another.  There will be massive confusion with that number being on two different highways that run to and from the same places.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hbelkins on June 05, 2012, 10:00:18 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 05, 2012, 09:39:50 AM
No actually that would be worse.  Split interstates currently serve "twin cities" in the same metropolitan area....they don't run from one metropolitan area to another.  There will be massive confusion with that number being on two different highways that run to and from the same places.

No there wouldn't. There's no confusion with US 25E and 25W, or US 31E and 31W in Kentucky and Tennessee. The only confusion is when some uninformed person makes reference to "25 East" or some such.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on June 05, 2012, 12:14:26 PM
Upon further consideration, I do agree. What we're shooting for is 55, to alleviate confusion and such. 43-E and 43-W would confuse. And there aren't enough 4-lane highways to go from US41 to I-43 should a person get onto 41 thinking it was 43-E hoping to go from Milwaukee to Sheboygan. I know from personal experience. WIS 23 sucks for the time being between Fond du Lac and Sheboygan.

Talk of 43-E/43-W is a moot point anyway, because AASHTO did do away with the split interstates like that how many years ago to avoid confusion. I highly doubt they'd bring one back just because one number doesn't go between 2 others. Now how hard does Badgerland want to fight? I'd like to reiterate, we could just as easily give the finger to IDOT, sign 55 from the IL state line to GB, and see what happens. I-76 comes to mind. So does I-74 (regrettably), I-84, I-86 and I-88 come to mind, where there's an Eastern one and a Western one. What'd be the difference there? (besides not being at opposite ends of the country)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: InterstateNG on June 05, 2012, 01:19:33 PM
Why does it need to be 55?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on June 05, 2012, 01:46:48 PM
Quote from: InterstateNG on June 05, 2012, 01:19:33 PM
Why does it need to be 55?

It's being pushed hard by business interests in the Green Bay area.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: InterstateNG on June 05, 2012, 03:20:26 PM
That doesn't answer my question.  And if the answer is "prestige", they need to try again.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: gbgoose on June 05, 2012, 03:42:30 PM
Quote from: InterstateNG on June 05, 2012, 01:19:33 PM
Why does it need to be 55?

Money - or at least the perception of more money for the area.  Living in Green Bay, this area thinks having an interstate route from New Orleans to Green Bay could attract more business to this part of the state vs. having say an I-41 or a 3-digit interstate designation.  Whether it's right, I'm not sure, but that's just the gut feel in the limited information I've heard.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: JREwing78 on June 05, 2012, 07:39:01 PM
Quote from: InterstateNG on June 05, 2012, 03:20:26 PM
That doesn't answer my question.  And if the answer is "prestige", they need to try again.

"Prestige" is the entire point of doing this. It's not like US-41 functions any differently as a highway with blue interstate shields on the highway signs, or that local residents would confuse US-41 for a winding 2-lane back road. The entire point is to signal to businesses that NE and SE Wisconsin is an important region, and in particular the Fox Valley cities (Fond du Lac, Oshkosh, Appleton, Green Bay).

And, since "Prestige" is the entire point, why would you settle for a 3di or some minor footnote route? Certainly in pre-interstate days, this was a major enough area to merit a US-x1 designation connecting the UP to Florida. What about the area doesn't merit a major north-south interstate highway designation?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hbelkins on June 05, 2012, 09:51:12 PM
Quote from: gbgoose on June 05, 2012, 03:42:30 PM
Quote from: InterstateNG on June 05, 2012, 01:19:33 PM
Why does it need to be 55?

Money - or at least the perception of more money for the area.  Living in Green Bay, this area thinks having an interstate route from New Orleans to Green Bay could attract more business to this part of the state vs. having say an I-41 or a 3-digit interstate designation.  Whether it's right, I'm not sure, but that's just the gut feel in the limited information I've heard.

If it's vital that the route from NO to GB have the same number (which it really won't, since no one wishing to make the fastest trip possible would take I-55 from Memphis to Chicago, they'd use I-57 instead), then the US 66 purists will probably go apoplectic because this corridor has one number and the legendary Chicago to LA corridor uses four separate interstate numbers (55, 44, 40 and 15).
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on June 05, 2012, 10:04:15 PM
Quote from: JREwing78 on June 05, 2012, 07:39:01 PM
Quote from: InterstateNG on June 05, 2012, 03:20:26 PM
That doesn't answer my question.  And if the answer is "prestige", they need to try again.

"Prestige" is the entire point of doing this. It's not like US-41 functions any differently as a highway with blue interstate shields on the highway signs, or that local residents would confuse US-41 for a winding 2-lane back road. The entire point is to signal to businesses that NE and SE Wisconsin is an important region, and in particular the Fox Valley cities (Fond du Lac, Oshkosh, Appleton, Green Bay).

And, since "Prestige" is the entire point, why would you settle for a 3di or some minor footnote route? Certainly in pre-interstate days, this was a major enough area to merit a US-x1 designation connecting the UP to Florida. What about the area doesn't merit a major north-south interstate highway designation?

Very True. 41 and 51 go through Wisconsin. So if in 1918 (circa) they thought Wisconsin worthy enough of a US X1 number (let alone 2), then why wouldn't we be worthy of a modern day I-X5? Why waste another number by making it an intrastate?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: english si on June 06, 2012, 05:09:17 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on June 05, 2012, 09:51:12 PMIf it's vital that the route from NO to GB have the same number (which it really won't, since no one wishing to make the fastest trip possible would take I-55 from Memphis to Chicago, they'd use I-57 instead)
But for NO to GB, you'd not go via Chicago, using I-39 and I-43.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on June 06, 2012, 09:55:30 AM
Quote from: merrycilantro on June 05, 2012, 10:04:15 PM
Quote from: JREwing78 on June 05, 2012, 07:39:01 PM
Quote from: InterstateNG on June 05, 2012, 03:20:26 PM
That doesn't answer my question.  And if the answer is "prestige", they need to try again.

"Prestige" is the entire point of doing this. It's not like US-41 functions any differently as a highway with blue interstate shields on the highway signs, or that local residents would confuse US-41 for a winding 2-lane back road. The entire point is to signal to businesses that NE and SE Wisconsin is an important region, and in particular the Fox Valley cities (Fond du Lac, Oshkosh, Appleton, Green Bay).

And, since "Prestige" is the entire point, why would you settle for a 3di or some minor footnote route? Certainly in pre-interstate days, this was a major enough area to merit a US-x1 designation connecting the UP to Florida. What about the area doesn't merit a major north-south interstate highway designation?

Very True. 41 and 51 go through Wisconsin. So if in 1918 (circa) they thought Wisconsin worthy enough of a US X1 number (let alone 2), then why wouldn't we be worthy of a modern day I-X5? Why waste another number by making it an intrastate?


Actually Wisconsin has three USX1 numbers....US-61.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: NE2 on June 06, 2012, 10:13:05 AM
Question: if you're going from downtown Milwaukee to downtown Green Bay, are both routes about equal? Or is one significantly better? If the former, it makes sense to give both routes two-digit numbers to tell unfamiliar drivers that either route works.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on June 06, 2012, 10:28:01 AM
Quote from: NE2 on June 06, 2012, 10:13:05 AM
Question: if you're going from downtown Milwaukee to downtown Green Bay, are both routes about equal? Or is one significantly better? If the former, it makes sense to give both routes two-digit numbers to tell unfamiliar drivers that either route works.

I-43 is definitely the better way to go between DT Milwaukee and the Green Bay area.  West of about Miller Park, Milwaukeeans often use US 41 (at least on Packers game days).  Also, the population *between* metro Milwaukee and Green Bay is several orders of magnitude higher along the US 41 corridor than it is along I-43 and US 41 thus carries significantly more traffic (remember that lengthy parts of US 41 are now being upgraded to six lanes while all of I-43 north of Milwaukee County is only four lanes).

Why was I-43 built where it was back in the 1970s?  The exact same reason why CalTrans built I-5 through the middle of nowhere in the Central Valley instead of upgrading the existing four lanes US (now CA) 99 - it was much faster and cheaper to do a new-ROW than upgrade the existing highway (parts of CA 99 are still substandard) and the last substandard parts of US 41 are only now being addressed.  US 41 has been all four lanes since the mid-late 1960s.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: NE2 on June 06, 2012, 10:33:40 AM
Sounds like a three-digit might make the most sense then. Make it obvious to through traffic that I-43 is a better route.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: texaskdog on June 06, 2012, 10:35:02 AM
The whole "prestige" thing may have made sense back in the old days when cities were afraid of being off the beaten path, but in 2012 it really means little.  If I-35 through Austin was I-31 it wouldn't change anyone's opinion.  We treat Mopac (Texas Loop 1) as an equal to I-35 anyway.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on June 06, 2012, 12:03:04 PM
First of all, how do you quote multiple entries at the same time?

Secondly, NE2, did you fully read the response directly before yours, as to which freeway was better than the other? I'm just curious as to why, after the explanation saying the US41 corridor is being (or is) upgraded to 6 lanes, while 43 is only 4 from MKE to GB, and that there's a greater population along the US41 corridor as opposed to I-43, why would you then turn around and say make it a 3di...

It's true, you go from Milwaukee to GB, on either freeway you're looking at about 2 hours. There is little difference time-wise. The upgrade may mean more to Suburban (especially Western suburbs/exurbs) Milwaukeeans than to Inner-City Milwaukeeans. Be that as it may, should you CHOOSE to go, say from New Orleans to Green Bay as english si, via 55 to 39 to 43, the logical thing to do then would be to use the current US41 corridor, once you come up the Rock Freeway (43) into Milwaukee, avoid the bypass and downtown and just shoot straight up, because you're looking at traffic jams should you decide to venture into the Marquette. Thus, a 2di would be the logical choice.

In that respect, a more radical approach would be, Renumber 39 and 43 to the Hale Interchange as 55, current 55 as a X55(odd number) into Chicago, and let traffic go up 39/43(/41?).  AASHTO or FHWA or the respective states' DOTs could choose whether or not to number 41 or 43 as 55, makes no difference there...but then it saves on some traffic in Chicagoland :) But if IDOT won't even slap a 55 on an existing freeway from Chicago to state line, I highly doubt they'd be game for that.

SEWI Guy, I completely omitted US61! *smack my head* Duh... thank you for the clarification :) I've tried, since my first entry, to not put my foot in my mouth again, which is why you'll see a bunch of "correct me if i'm wrong's" and such. I rarely venture to the West Side of Wisconsin however, and it had completely slipped my mind.

Economics seems to be what's on the politicians' minds. And if the whole "Interstate freeway will attract business to the area" concept is, in fact, true, then give 41 the 55 designation, as this population center (as opposed to the I-43 corridor population center) is more important, IMHO. Perhaps I am just biased as this is my hometown. Call it what you want. Just don't call it a 3di. And please don't give us yet another Intrastate. Either one defeats the purpose.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on June 06, 2012, 12:46:24 PM
Quote from: merrycilantro on June 06, 2012, 12:03:04 PM

SEWI Guy, I completely omitted US61! *smack my head* Duh... thank you for the clarification :) I've tried, since my first entry, to not put my foot in my mouth again, which is why you'll see a bunch of "correct me if i'm wrong's" and such. I rarely venture to the West Side of Wisconsin however, and it had completely slipped my mind.


Well it is an easy mistake.  It was a major USH, but serves a relatively minor purpose in Wisconsin.  If you were driving from Dubuque to the Twin Cities, you certainly wouldn't take US-61 to get there...unless you had the time to take the more scenic route.  US-52 is the much better alternative....but that wasn't around when US-61 was routed.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: NE2 on June 06, 2012, 01:17:55 PM
Quote from: merrycilantro on June 06, 2012, 12:03:04 PM
Secondly, NE2, did you fully read the response directly before yours, as to which freeway was better than the other? I'm just curious as to why, after the explanation saying the US41 corridor is being (or is) upgraded to 6 lanes, while 43 is only 4 from MKE to GB, and that there's a greater population along the US41 corridor as opposed to I-43, why would you then turn around and say make it a 3di...
Because the purpose of Interstate numbering is to help those who are not familiar with the area. If I-43 is a better route, then it makes sense to tell drivers that by not also giving US 41 a two-digit number. People going to Appleton and such will take US 41 no matter what it's numbered. People going to Green Bay will either do whatever their satnav tells them to do, or look at the map and determine which route looks better. Currently that's I-43 by default, since it's an Interstate. If US 41 also gets a 2DI designation, both will look roughly equivalent, and about half the drivers will choose each route. But if I-43 is significantly better, this is less than ideal. Numbering it I-243 will show that it's a good route, but not necessarily the best. The point about traffic coming up I-43 from Beloit is interesting, but from that direction it would be clear that I-243 bypasses downtown Milwaukee and may in fact be the better route during rush hours. (Assuming you don't use US 151 or WIS 26 and bypass Milwaukee entirely.)

Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 06, 2012, 12:46:24 PM
US-52 is the much better alternative....but that wasn't around when US-61 was routed.
US 55 went Dubuque to Minneapolis in 1926. 61 may have been better road quality-wise though in the early days.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Stratuscaster on June 06, 2012, 07:23:46 PM
I wonder if some folks just get hung up on the whole "3di as a loop, bypass, or spur" thing. US 41 certainly wouldn't be a spur, and it's not really a loop either - although I suppose it could be considered the "Lake Winnebago Loop."
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hobsini2 on June 06, 2012, 07:47:18 PM
Quote from: NE2 on June 06, 2012, 01:17:55 PM
Quote from: merrycilantro on June 06, 2012, 12:03:04 PM
Secondly, NE2, did you fully read the response directly before yours, as to which freeway was better than the other? I'm just curious as to why, after the explanation saying the US41 corridor is being (or is) upgraded to 6 lanes, while 43 is only 4 from MKE to GB, and that there's a greater population along the US41 corridor as opposed to I-43, why would you then turn around and say make it a 3di...
Because the purpose of Interstate numbering is to help those who are not familiar with the area. If I-43 is a better route, then it makes sense to tell drivers that by not also giving US 41 a two-digit number. People going to Appleton and such will take US 41 no matter what it's numbered. People going to Green Bay will either do whatever their satnav tells them to do, or look at the map and determine which route looks better. Currently that's I-43 by default, since it's an Interstate. If US 41 also gets a 2DI designation, both will look roughly equivalent, and about half the drivers will choose each route. But if I-43 is significantly better, this is less than ideal. Numbering it I-243 will show that it's a good route, but not necessarily the best. The point about traffic coming up I-43 from Beloit is interesting, but from that direction it would be clear that I-243 bypasses downtown Milwaukee and may in fact be the better route during rush hours. (Assuming you don't use US 151 or WIS 26 and bypass Milwaukee entirely.)
Bare with me this is a bit long.

NE2, just because the 2 downtown are "better accessed" by I-43 than US 41 doesn't make it a better route. Of course if the Belt Frwy was built back in the 70s like it was planned, this would certainly be no contest between the 2 routes.  There are more people who use US 41/45 from the Hale to the I-43/US 41/141 jct in Green Bay than taking I-43 between those jcts. That is do in large part to Appleton (and the Fox Cities: Neenah, Menasha, Kaukauna), Oshkosh, and Fond du Lac being major commercial cities with larger populations than Manitowoc, Sheboygan, and Port Washington. 

Major industries/companies in Appleton (78,000 pop) include Appleton Paper and Miller Electric.  Neenah (25,000) has Kimberly-Clark, one of the largest paper products companies and Neenah Foundry which makes manhole covers. It is very likely that the manhole covers in your town come from them. Menasha has 16,000 people.  Kaukauna (13,000) has International Paper (Thilmany Paper) and Kaukauna Cheese (now Bel/Kaukauna in Little Chute which is a neighboring town).  Oshkosh (66,000) has OshKosh B'Gosh, Oshkosh Corp (makes vehicles for Dept of Defense, fire engines/ambulances, and commercial construction), Bemis (plastics), Hughes (chocalates) and Oaks (chocolates).  It has UW-Oshkosh with 14,000 students. Oshkosh also hosts the AirAdventure Show which is the largest air show in the world and one of the largest country music festivals so tourism is a big deal in Oshkosh as well. Fond du Lac (42,000) has Mercury Marine (boat engines), ACNeilsen (of the Neilsen ratings fame), and Charter Communications call center for NE Wisconsin.

Conversly, Manitowoc (34,000) has 2 ship/yacht building companies and Lakeside Foods. Sheboygan (49,000) has Johnsonville Brats, tourism, and Koch Industries.  Port Washington (10,500) has one of the largest charter fishing fleets on the Great Lakes.

So saying that US 41 should become I-243 or what ever 3di you like would be counterproductive. That's why 41 needs to be a 2di. I would prefer 57 or 65 to 55 since the freeflow connection if IDOT ever got their act together would be simple but i suppose i can be convinced otherwise.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: NE2 on June 06, 2012, 09:42:51 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on June 06, 2012, 07:47:18 PM
There are more people who use US 41/45 from the Hale to the I-43/US 41/141 jct in Green Bay than taking I-43 between those jcts. That is do in large part to Appleton (and the Fox Cities: Neenah, Menasha, Kaukauna), Oshkosh, and Fond du Lac being major commercial cities with larger populations than Manitowoc, Sheboygan, and Port Washington. 

Existing traffic, especially that to intermediate destinations, is going to use it no matter what the number. The purpose of Interstate numbering is to help long-distance travelers pick the best route.

You seem to be arguing that it should be a two-digit number because it has more population than I-43. But why should a less-direct route with more population be presented as equal to a shorter route?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mukade on June 06, 2012, 10:04:06 PM
What was the original concept of a route number in the US? I think they came about in the 1920s or thereabouts to replace named routes. Was the idea that a single number would follow actual highest volume traffic patterns? In other words, was there some sort of objective criteria or logic when deciding how a route would be numbered, and shouldn't a route follow where people actually go instead of asking the majority of people to change routes unnecessarily?

The original US and Interstate highways were generally long routes. I suppose that is why I-94 takes the questionable route it does. The major highways (I-x0 and I-x5 -- US x0 and US x1) were meant to connect the largest cities as much as possible. The three digit Interstates were meant to be relatively short bypasses or spurs. Was that not the original idea? If it still is, the answer is pretty clear for this case - this should be part of a long distance major route. No doubt about it.

If none of this matters anymore, US 41 can be numbered as anything because it is all arbitrary anyway. I think roughly half the people here think there should be a system and half don't care at all. It also seems like many people in DOTs don't care either.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: DaBigE on June 06, 2012, 11:52:12 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on June 06, 2012, 07:47:18 PM
Major industries/companies in Appleton (78,000 pop) include Appleton Paper and Miller Electric.  Neenah (25,000) has Kimberly-Clark, one of the largest paper products companies and Neenah Foundry which makes manhole covers. It is very likely that the manhole covers in your town come from them. Menasha has 16,000 people.  Kaukauna (13,000) has International Paper (Thilmany Paper) and Kaukauna Cheese (now Bel/Kaukauna in Little Chute which is a neighboring town).  Oshkosh (66,000) has OshKosh B'Gosh, Oshkosh Corp (makes vehicles for Dept of Defense, fire engines/ambulances, and commercial construction), Bemis (plastics), Hughes (chocalates) and Oaks (chocolates).  It has UW-Oshkosh with 14,000 students. Oshkosh also hosts the AirAdventure Show which is the largest air show in the world and one of the largest country music festivals so tourism is a big deal in Oshkosh as well. Fond du Lac (42,000) has Mercury Marine (boat engines), ACNeilsen (of the Neilsen ratings fame), and Charter Communications call center for NE Wisconsin.

Conversly, Manitowoc (34,000) has 2 ship/yacht building companies and Lakeside Foods. Sheboygan (49,000) has Johnsonville Brats, tourism, and Koch Industries.  Port Washington (10,500) has one of the largest charter fishing fleets on the Great Lakes.

Can't forget Pierce Manufacturing (yes, technically a subsidiary of Oshkosh Corp.), with all their fire trucks visible from US-41 just as you're entering Appleton from the south.  Technically, Oshkosh builds very few, if any ambulances in Wisconsin (they are built by the MedTec subsidiary in Bradenton, FL).  And while not an industry in the traditional sense, you cannot forget the Fox River Mall in Grand Chute, (just west of US-41, between College Ave & Wisconsin Ave), and its vast regional draw.

For I-43, I'm surprised you left out Kohler...both for plumbing fixtures and Whistling Straits.

Now, back to the number debate.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: english si on June 07, 2012, 05:24:46 AM
Quote from: NE2 on June 06, 2012, 09:42:51 PMYou seem to be arguing that it should be a two-digit number because it has more population than I-43. But why should a less-direct route with more population be presented as equal to a shorter route?
I-10/I-12 - the longer, more populated route is presented as more important to the shorter route, which while 2di, requires a change of number.

Likewise 3dis that cut the corner off, missing out the core of large population centres:
I-270 v I-70 St Louis; I-470 v I-70 Wheeling; NJTP (not even a 3di) or I-295 v I-95 Philadelphia.

Plus the long-distance bypasses:
I-57 v I-55 to avoid St Louis, I-83-I-81-I-84 v I-95 to avoid New York-New Jersey-Philly, I-395-I-290-I-495 v I-95 to avoid Providence-Boston.

Also, 'I-7' or 'I-9' along CA99 is 4 miles longer than I-5 between LA and Sacramento, though obviously the shorter I-5 route is more major, extending at both ends. In a similar way, I-41 on US 41 wouldn't extend at either end and would function similarly, but I-55 would.

I guess the answer to this problem is control city signage - in central Milwaukee, sign Green Bay via I-43 and not I-55 and vice versa.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: NE2 on June 07, 2012, 10:17:21 AM
Quote from: english si on June 07, 2012, 05:24:46 AM
I-10/I-12 - the longer, more populated route is presented as more important to the shorter route, which while 2di, requires a change of number.
New Orleans is an order of magnitude more important than the cities along US 41 south of Green Bay. (It's also rather obvious on the map which one is shorter.)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on June 07, 2012, 11:16:31 AM
Quote from: NE2 on June 06, 2012, 01:17:55 PM
Quote from: merrycilantro on June 06, 2012, 12:03:04 PM
Secondly, NE2, did you fully read the response directly before yours, as to which freeway was better than the other? I'm just curious as to why, after the explanation saying the US41 corridor is being (or is) upgraded to 6 lanes, while 43 is only 4 from MKE to GB, and that there's a greater population along the US41 corridor as opposed to I-43, why would you then turn around and say make it a 3di...
Because the purpose of Interstate numbering is to help those who are not familiar with the area. If I-43 is a better route, then it makes sense to tell drivers that by not also giving US 41 a two-digit number. People going to Appleton and such will take US 41 no matter what it's numbered. People going to Green Bay will either do whatever their satnav tells them to do, or look at the map and determine which route looks better. Currently that's I-43 by default, since it's an Interstate. If US 41 also gets a 2DI designation, both will look roughly equivalent, and about half the drivers will choose each route. But if I-43 is significantly better, this is less than ideal. Numbering it I-243 will show that it's a good route, but not necessarily the best. The point about traffic coming up I-43 from Beloit is interesting, but from that direction it would be clear that I-243 bypasses downtown Milwaukee and may in fact be the better route during rush hours. (Assuming you don't use US 151 or WIS 26 and bypass Milwaukee entirely.)


Actually, I-43 may likely not be the "better route" if you are in Waukesha County or in other parts west of Milwaukee.  US-41 is 11 miles longer from its interchange with I-94.  That extra amount may be worth not having to drive downtown.  (Not to mention that there are routes available that would allow you to travel even a shorter distance to go straight north to US-41 from that part of the state.)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: english si on June 07, 2012, 11:38:45 AM
Quote from: NE2 on June 07, 2012, 10:17:21 AMNew Orleans is an order of magnitude more important than the cities along US 41 south of Green Bay. (It's also rather obvious on the map which one is shorter.)
Well yes - that is true - I was just suggesting that the shortest route often involves a change of number.

How about Madison to Billings - I-90 or I-94? Which one do you take? There's a 35 mile difference, and it's not obvious on the map, one going through a large Met area, the other going through a few more minor cities en route. I-94 is both shorter and more populated, but it's I-90 that gets the through number, and that being the case, does it matter if US41 - more populated but longer, gets the through number, rather than I-43?

Driving the shortest and quickest route between Seattle to Chicago involves changing onto I-94 at the first split between I-90 and I-94, and I-90 at the second. Is Chicago signed at Billings? Seattle in WI? no - but control destinations in Milawaukee will help you, unlike with that route - coming north on I-55 or I-43 into Milwaukee, sign Green Bay via I-43 and the Lake Winnebago cities via I-55.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 07, 2012, 11:16:31 AMActually, I-43 may likely not be the "better route" if you are in Waukesha County or in other parts west of Milwaukee.  US-41 is 11 miles longer from its interchange with I-94.  That extra amount may be worth not having to drive downtown.  (Not to mention that there are routes available that would allow you to travel even a shorter distance to go straight north to US-41 from that part of the state.)
So Green Bay coming up I-55 towards Milwaukee would be via I-43 north of Milwaukee, and vice versa. Interesting...
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hbelkins on June 07, 2012, 10:23:36 PM
Don't get me started on I-10 and I-12. The situation as it currently exists is a cluster foxtrot.

If I-10 has to go through NO, then I-12 should be a 3di, as it serves as a bypass of NO for through traffic.

The best solution would be for I-10 to go straight, north of Lake Ponchartrain, and the interstate looping to NO should be either a 3di, or if it has to be its own interstate, I-6.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: rickmastfan67 on June 08, 2012, 12:45:43 AM
Quote from: merrycilantro on June 06, 2012, 12:03:04 PM
First of all, how do you quote multiple entries at the same time?

You select the first post you want to quote and then hit the quote button there.  Then once you're on the "Post reply" page, find the 2nd post you want to quote and then hit the "Insert Quote" text.

Simple as that. ;)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: colinstu on June 08, 2012, 12:26:06 PM
See this guys?

http://www.dot.wi.gov/projects/neregion/41/index.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmnCeLER35E
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hobsini2 on June 08, 2012, 02:42:07 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 07, 2012, 11:16:31 AM
Quote from: NE2 on June 06, 2012, 01:17:55 PM
Quote from: merrycilantro on June 06, 2012, 12:03:04 PM
Secondly, NE2, did you fully read the response directly before yours, as to which freeway was better than the other? I'm just curious as to why, after the explanation saying the US41 corridor is being (or is) upgraded to 6 lanes, while 43 is only 4 from MKE to GB, and that there's a greater population along the US41 corridor as opposed to I-43, why would you then turn around and say make it a 3di...
Because the purpose of Interstate numbering is to help those who are not familiar with the area. If I-43 is a better route, then it makes sense to tell drivers that by not also giving US 41 a two-digit number. People going to Appleton and such will take US 41 no matter what it's numbered. People going to Green Bay will either do whatever their satnav tells them to do, or look at the map and determine which route looks better. Currently that's I-43 by default, since it's an Interstate. If US 41 also gets a 2DI designation, both will look roughly equivalent, and about half the drivers will choose each route. But if I-43 is significantly better, this is less than ideal. Numbering it I-243 will show that it's a good route, but not necessarily the best. The point about traffic coming up I-43 from Beloit is interesting, but from that direction it would be clear that I-243 bypasses downtown Milwaukee and may in fact be the better route during rush hours. (Assuming you don't use US 151 or WIS 26 and bypass Milwaukee entirely.)


Actually, I-43 may likely not be the "better route" if you are in Waukesha County or in other parts west of Milwaukee.  US-41 is 11 miles longer from its interchange with I-94.  That extra amount may be worth not having to drive downtown.  (Not to mention that there are routes available that would allow you to travel even a shorter distance to go straight north to US-41 from that part of the state.)

That's exactly my point. Just because it is shorter in distance dopesn't make it better in time.
NE2, you wanted a long distance traveler POV. If i am going to Green Bay from my home in suburban Chicago, I want to avoid Downtown Milwaukee and the N-S Frwy up to Brown Deer Rd due to the frequent backups. Yes 45/894 has it's share too but nowhere near as bad. The only time I would ever take 43 over 41 is if I am going to Door County because 41 would be out of the way.
That's why i said you can't judge a highway strictly by going the easiest access between Downtowns.

BTW TY Big E. I did forget Kohler when looking up the major businesses.

Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Jordanah1 on June 11, 2012, 07:48:40 PM
the WI21/Washburn st roundabout at the new WI21 interchange is open, and i believe the Koller roundabout opens tomorow, or very soon anyway. the US41/US45 interchange is nearly complete, there are a few areas of jersey barriers that still needed work as of last weekend (june 9-10) but those were just short segments were different barriers connected. most of the lane striping is in place, the shoulders are finished, and some of the signage is up. light poles were laying next to there sockets, waiting to be put in place. the Northeast side of the flyover still needes to be painted, as well as the US45 overpass over the US41 southbound lanes only, also the US45 overpass over the US45 south to US41 south ramp needes to be painted aswell.

http://www.us41wisconsin.gov/gallery/general-construction

some new pictures of the construction there at US45, and the butte des morts causway.

http://www.us41wisconsin.gov/flex/Alert_US41_6_8_12_WCBC.874

info about lane closures associated with opening the interchange.

im guessing that the US41 southbound butte des morts causway is completed, and traffic will switch to the southbound US41 lanes from north of Witzel, through WI21, and across lake butte des morts, and then will switch so southbound is on southbound, and northbound is on northbound untill snell road, were traffic will cross back to southbound. north of snell road, the inside lane, and most of the inside shoulder is poured all the way past county Y, and the to right lanes were paved, and being prepared for concrete.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Jordanah1 on June 19, 2012, 06:21:17 PM
here are some pictures of the US41/US45 interchange in oshkosh, and also some of the butte des morts causway. they have moved southbound US41 onto the new southbound roadway from the US45 interchange, across lake butte des morts, and under the new WI21 overpass being built, connecting to the already completed section of 6-lane roadway just north of witzel ave. northbound traffic is still on the bypass around WI21, and on the old butte des morts bridges. they are removing the old southbound roadway across lake butte des morts, and are demolishing the bridges. http://s1110.photobucket.com/albums/h454/jordanah1/highway%202/

Also the WI21/Koeller St roundabout is now open. http://us41wisconsin.gov/flex/AlertDraft+US4121KoellerRABOpens6-18-12WC.878
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1110.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh454%2Fjordanah1%2Fhighway%25202%2FDSCF9124-Copy.jpg&hash=b57891d9a7eee37836b3bdf61ccaa7cc51ef3935)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on June 22, 2012, 01:33:52 PM
WisDOT just announced via a Facebook posting that, weather permitting, the NB US 41 -> NB US 45 flyover ramp at Algoma BD, along with the rest of the interchange, in Oshkosh will be complete and opened to traffic at 02:00 on Tuesday, 2012-06-26 - in time for the July 4th holiday traffic crush.

https://www.facebook.com/WisconsinUS41/posts/468759706484866

:jumping: :hyper: :clap:

NOW, will the street section of US 10 in Stevens Point be ready for that?

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: texaskdog on June 22, 2012, 02:14:24 PM
Quote from: english si on June 07, 2012, 11:38:45 AM
Quote from: NE2 on June 07, 2012, 10:17:21 AMNew Orleans is an order of magnitude more important than the cities along US 41 south of Green Bay. (It's also rather obvious on the map which one is shorter.)
Well yes - that is true - I was just suggesting that the shortest route often involves a change of number.

How about Madison to Billings - I-90 or I-94? Which one do you take? There's a 35 mile difference, and it's not obvious on the map, one going through a large Met area, the other going through a few more minor cities en route. I-94 is both shorter and more populated, but it's I-90 that gets the through number, and that being the case, does it matter if US41 - more populated but longer, gets the through number, rather than I-43?

Driving the shortest and quickest route between Seattle to Chicago involves changing onto I-94 at the first split between I-90 and I-94, and I-90 at the second. Is Chicago signed at Billings? Seattle in WI? no - but control destinations in Milawaukee will help you, unlike with that route - coming north on I-55 or I-43 into Milwaukee, sign Green Bay via I-43 and the Lake Winnebago cities via I-55.
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 07, 2012, 11:16:31 AMActually, I-43 may likely not be the "better route" if you are in Waukesha County or in other parts west of Milwaukee.  US-41 is 11 miles longer from its interchange with I-94.  That extra amount may be worth not having to drive downtown.  (Not to mention that there are routes available that would allow you to travel even a shorter distance to go straight north to US-41 from that part of the state.)
So Green Bay coming up I-55 towards Milwaukee would be via I-43 north of Milwaukee, and vice versa. Interesting...

Yes I-94 Madison to Billings should have  been I-90.  I-90 from Madison to Buffalo, WY should have carried a different number.  Oh well.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on June 25, 2012, 10:43:58 AM
Does anybody have any Inside Information on IDOT, as to whether or not any debate was given at all to the notion of I-55 being extended into WI? It's been a while, but someone posted that they were not enthused about the idea one bit. And quite frankly, I can't imagine why. Wouldn't the Fed be fronting the money for it? And, wouldn't that create jobs for Illinoisans? Besides the point...
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on June 25, 2012, 11:43:36 AM
How would extending I-55 into Wisconsin "create jobs" for Illinois?  Outside of those who have to erect signage, I can't imagine how that would be the case.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hobsini2 on June 25, 2012, 10:48:37 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 25, 2012, 11:43:36 AM
How would extending I-55 into Wisconsin "create jobs" for Illinois?  Outside of those who have to erect signage, I can't imagine how that would be the case.
Other than the sign erection, it would not unless they somehow redid the interchange why some people want I-55 to head north.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on June 26, 2012, 09:16:32 AM
Yeah, I understand that, but I would run it north along the Tri-State anyway.  It would save much time and keep through traffic away from downtown. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Jordanah1 on June 26, 2012, 07:28:24 PM
US41/US45 interchange northbound ramps all opened today (southbound offramp closed temporarily to finish painting flyover). i got o at 9th street, and took the flyover ramp at US45, so here are some pictures from along the way. i also have a picture of the new roundabout at CTY Y/ CTY T intersection.
http://s1110.photobucket.com/albums/h454/jordanah1/highway%203/
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1110.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh454%2Fjordanah1%2Fhighway%25203%2FDSCF9181.jpg&hash=124db0b54de8b1c2b627138d4da0ca93513bd48a)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on June 26, 2012, 08:15:09 PM
They're adding a roundabout at County 'T'/County 'Y'?  Didn't know that one.

:meh:

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Jordanah1 on June 26, 2012, 10:46:05 PM
it is a seperate project, i just happened to drive through it, they are reconstruction 2 miles or so of CTY T from just south of CTY Y (near the US45 interchange) to the north. including storm sewers, and i believe curb some of it.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on June 26, 2012, 11:06:14 PM
 :eyebrow:That road looks like it's made of ice.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on June 27, 2012, 01:39:29 AM
Quote from: Jordanah1 on June 26, 2012, 10:46:05 PM
it is a seperate project, i just happened to drive through it, they are reconstruction 2 miles or so of CTY T from just south of CTY Y (near the US45 interchange) to the north. including storm sewers, and i believe curb some of it.

Well, a small part of County 'T' close to the US 45 interchange is in the City of Oshkosh, but that section is not anywhere near enough to prompt the city to do anything like that.  Perhaps the county is doing that due to that small neighborhood by the intersection.  OTOH, whenever that neighborhood will be needing sewer and/or water service, into the City it will have to go as the township (Oshkosh Twp.) is unable to do anything like that (check a map to see how chopped up it is already!) and doing that now will save the city the bother of upgrading the street when that time comes.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on June 27, 2012, 08:35:20 AM
Some more information on 41 & 45:
http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/fox_cities/highway-45-highway-41-interchange-reopens
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Jordanah1 on June 27, 2012, 09:10:25 AM
i took a walk down CTY T from the north a few weeks ago, and i talked to a resident, he thought that (besides the road needing repair) that it was to lure in developers to build some subdivisions in the area, a curbed street looks more appealing. *only storm sewers for rain, not actual sewers...i was a little misleading with that statement...
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on June 27, 2012, 10:03:20 AM
Quote from: Fox 11 News on June 27, 2012, 08:35:20 AM
Some more information on 41 & 45:
http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/fox_cities/highway-45-highway-41-interchange-reopens


No there isn't anything "new" about this article that wasn't reported earlier in the thread.  Just a lame attempt to increase your page views.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: DaBigE on June 27, 2012, 10:15:27 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 27, 2012, 10:03:20 AM
Quote from: Fox 11 News on June 27, 2012, 08:35:20 AM
Some more information on 41 & 45:
http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/fox_cities/highway-45-highway-41-interchange-reopens


No there isn't anything "new" about this article that wasn't reported earlier in the thread.  Just a lame attempt to increase your page views.

Technically, they never said there would be anything "new"...they just said "more". Either way, with a photojournalist all they could muster up were two photos?!?? That's it?? :confused:  And one of them has a large utility pole smack in the middle of the shot. :no:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Jordanah1 on June 27, 2012, 10:18:33 AM
just look at all of my photos...
http://s1110.photobucket.com/albums/h454/jordanah1/highway%202/
http://s1110.photobucket.com/albums/h454/jordanah1/highway%203/
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on June 27, 2012, 09:10:02 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 27, 2012, 10:03:20 AM
Quote from: Fox 11 News on June 27, 2012, 08:35:20 AM
Some more information on 41 & 45:
http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/fox_cities/highway-45-highway-41-interchange-reopens

No there isn't anything "new" about this article that wasn't reported earlier in the thread.  Just a lame attempt to increase your page views.

Yes, because the 10 of us here would make a huge difference.  Cut them some slack.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: on_wisconsin on June 27, 2012, 11:33:07 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on June 27, 2012, 09:10:02 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 27, 2012, 10:03:20 AM
Quote from: Fox 11 News on June 27, 2012, 08:35:20 AM
Some more information on 41 & 45:
http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/fox_cities/highway-45-highway-41-interchange-reopens

No there isn't anything "new" about this article that wasn't reported earlier in the thread.  Just a lame attempt to increase your page views.
Cut them some slack.  :rolleyes:
Seriousy. Also be happy that a mainstream tv station even knows about us. :nod:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on June 28, 2012, 10:33:00 AM
Quote from: on_wisconsin on June 27, 2012, 11:33:07 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on June 27, 2012, 09:10:02 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 27, 2012, 10:03:20 AM
Quote from: Fox 11 News on June 27, 2012, 08:35:20 AM
Some more information on 41 & 45:
http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/fox_cities/highway-45-highway-41-interchange-reopens

No there isn't anything "new" about this article that wasn't reported earlier in the thread.  Just a lame attempt to increase your page views.
Cut them some slack.  :rolleyes:
Seriousy. Also be happy that a mainstream tv station even knows about us. :nod:

Why should I be happy that a mainstream TV station knows about us and posts redundant information???
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on June 28, 2012, 10:35:33 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 28, 2012, 10:33:00 AM
Why should I be happy that a mainstream TV station knows about us and posts redundant information???

What if you don't speak for everyone?  I didn't have any problem with their post.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: DaBigE on June 28, 2012, 10:58:04 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 28, 2012, 10:33:00 AM
Quote from: on_wisconsin on June 27, 2012, 11:33:07 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on June 27, 2012, 09:10:02 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 27, 2012, 10:03:20 AM
Quote from: Fox 11 News on June 27, 2012, 08:35:20 AM
Some more information on 41 & 45:
http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/fox_cities/highway-45-highway-41-interchange-reopens

No there isn't anything "new" about this article that wasn't reported earlier in the thread.  Just a lame attempt to increase your page views.
Cut them some slack.  :rolleyes:
Seriousy. Also be happy that a mainstream tv station even knows about us. :nod:

Why should I be happy that a mainstream TV station knows about us and posts redundant information???

Welcome to the "modern" mass media way of reporting. You'll find the same type of reporting in any newspaper project updates as well...the last half of the article is usually redundant from the very first news release. The articles are written so that the copy editor can truncate the story at any point to fit in the space allowed, while still having the story read properly. Many of the same [old-school] methods have unfortunately found their way into electronic media outlets as well.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on June 28, 2012, 03:15:35 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on June 28, 2012, 10:35:33 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 28, 2012, 10:33:00 AM
Why should I be happy that a mainstream TV station knows about us and posts redundant information???

What if you don't speak for everyone?  I didn't have any problem with their post.


Did I claim to speak for anyone but myself???
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on June 28, 2012, 11:53:25 PM
tone it down guys - it was a good post. please keep it civil.  --ms
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Alps on June 29, 2012, 09:02:05 PM
Quote from: Master son on June 28, 2012, 11:53:25 PM
tone it down guys - it was a good post. please keep it civil.  --ms
Ha. "Civil." Good engineering joke. :D
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on July 03, 2012, 02:14:25 PM
An update on one of the roundabouts off the U.S. 41 & Mason Street interchange in Green Bay reopening:
http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/green_bay/roundabout-at-mason-and-taylor-opening
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on July 03, 2012, 06:40:37 PM
Quote from: Fox 11 News on July 03, 2012, 02:14:25 PM
An update on one of the roundabouts off the U.S. 41 & Mason Street interchange in Green Bay reopening:
http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/green_bay/roundabout-at-mason-and-taylor-opening

I wasn't able to get up there today, how's it working out so far?

(My guess, locals will be wondering why the city rejected roundabouts on Military Ave within ten years or so.)

Mike
Title: Breaking news - fatal crane collapse
Post by: mgk920 on July 05, 2012, 12:12:58 PM
There was a fatal crane collapse accident in the Oshkosh section of the US 41 Construction Geek Zone™ this morning.  It occurred on a bridge on the Lake Butte des Morts causeway.

http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/161434565.html

:no:

More as things develop.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: gbgoose on July 05, 2012, 01:32:28 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on July 03, 2012, 06:40:37 PM
Quote from: Fox 11 News on July 03, 2012, 02:14:25 PM
An update on one of the roundabouts off the U.S. 41 & Mason Street interchange in Green Bay reopening:
http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/green_bay/roundabout-at-mason-and-taylor-opening

I wasn't able to get up there today, how's it working out so far?

(My guess, locals will be wondering why the city rejected roundabouts on Military Ave within ten years or so.)

Mike

I live only a few blocks away from the construction, so in the first few days, let's just say it'll be interesting especially with how the Green Bay area feels about roundabouts.  When the whole interchange is done by August 1st, I'll try to post some pics then.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on July 05, 2012, 02:24:29 PM
The victim in the US41 fatal today has been identified as Joseph Bidler, of Green Bay. He was crushed by the fallen crane. The crane operator, name not released, was taken to Theda Clark Hospital in Neenah.

http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/fox_cities/at-least-1-injured-in-crane-collapse
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: pj3970 on July 06, 2012, 01:27:43 AM
I wonder if anyone ever thought of rerouting I-55 up I-39 to Beloit, then up I-43 into Milwaukee and Green Bay, then number the new US 41 freeway as a even number I-x55, although trying to renumber the other section of I-55 from I-39 to Chicago would then be the problem...just a thought
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: JREwing78 on July 06, 2012, 08:11:44 AM
Not seriously. I-39 was not even conceived when I-55 got designated. And Chicago would have nothing to do with that plan.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hobsini2 on July 10, 2012, 05:51:13 PM
Quote from: Fox 11 News on July 05, 2012, 02:24:29 PM
The victim in the US41 fatal today has been identified as Joseph Bidler, of Green Bay. He was crushed by the fallen crane. The crane operator, name not released, was taken to Theda Clark Hospital in Neenah.

http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/fox_cities/at-least-1-injured-in-crane-collapse
I wonder why the injured worker was not taken to Mercy Hospital in Oshkosh since it was about 3 miles away from the accident. I thought Mercy had a major trauma center.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on July 10, 2012, 11:50:12 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on July 10, 2012, 05:51:13 PM
Quote from: Fox 11 News on July 05, 2012, 02:24:29 PM
The victim in the US41 fatal today has been identified as Joseph Bidler, of Green Bay. He was crushed by the fallen crane. The crane operator, name not released, was taken to Theda Clark Hospital in Neenah.

http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/fox_cities/at-least-1-injured-in-crane-collapse
I wonder why the injured worker was not taken to Mercy Hospital in Oshkosh since it was about 3 miles away from the accident. I thought Mercy had a major trauma center.

Theda Clark has a medivac helicopter - a lot easier to get in and out of there than a wheeled ambulance.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on July 11, 2012, 12:22:34 PM
Anybody have any "inside information" updates on the numbering process for 41? I remember back, it said here WisDOT was in talks with NCDOT on how they managed to have I74/US74 concurrent. More so, I'd be interested to hear any inside information on IDOT as to any debates on I-55, or if/why they're so against it.

My prayers go out to the members of the victim's family.

Thanks all!
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on July 11, 2012, 07:18:57 PM
I reported everything I was told at a PIM back in May.  I've got nothing new regarding the interstate's number.

The new flyover was a real pleasure.  I was too busy snapping photos to enjoy what is probably now the highest view point in Oshkosh (unless you're on the roof of a building at UWO). Crews have made quick work of the old SB bridges on the Butte des Morte Causeway and were busy removing the old pavement as I came through on the 2nd:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi113.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn208%2Ftriplemultiplex%2FOshkosh%2520US%252041%2520pics%2FIMG_1969.jpg%3Ft%3D1342047999&hash=ab1ef0e5a4e2cb19fbf1de0cae90ecb81f56c08b)

Was sad to hear about the accident.  All the times I've driven through that work zone, I likely saw that guy at some point; shit, he could be in that photo somewhere. Just another hard hat in an orange vest going about his day on the job, then something like that happens.  Damn, man.

That bridge doesn't have a formal name, you know.  Obviously it's too soon to discuss, but maybe it could be a fitting tribute?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Jordanah1 on July 11, 2012, 07:23:40 PM
i was just thinking about the causway not having a name....i think the longest middle span should be named the 'Joseph Bidler Memorial Bridge', and the two smaller spans could get named after other community members who died tragicly or something...
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on July 12, 2012, 02:15:25 PM
I agree with that. That would be a nice thing to do for the family. As far as I know, it's only called the "Lake Butte des Morts Causeway", or locally as "the Butte des Morts bridge"...good call!
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hbelkins on July 12, 2012, 08:53:26 PM
The I-64 bridges over the Big Sandy River at the KY-WV border (maintained by WV) have been named after two workers who were killed in an accident when the bridges were being rehabbed back in the late 90s.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on July 18, 2012, 11:22:39 AM
News release from City of Green Bay regarding ribbon cutting:

Mason Street Interchange to Open!
(Green Bay) On Thursday, July 26, 2012, a ribbon cutting ceremony will be held at the Mason Street Interchange on US 41, to mark the upcoming Aug. 1 opening of this important segment of the Wisconsin Department of Transportation's (WisDOT) US 41 Project.

This transportation improvement project included a collaboration between the City of Green
Bay and the Oneida Nation, aimed at designing local artwork for use within the interchange.
The results reflect the diverse character and spirit of community. The re-opening of the Mason Street Interchange paves the way for safe and efficient traffic flow
in the area. Please join the City of Green Bay and WisDOT as they celebrate the return of traffic to this vital business corridor!

When: Thursday, July 26 at 3:00pm
Where: East End of Mason Street Overpass; Rain Location: US 41 Project Offices, Duck Creek
Room, 1940 W. Mason St.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on July 18, 2012, 01:02:34 PM
Well, that area is definitely on the tour itinerary for my planned roadgeek meet on August 4, perhaps I'll even lead everyone on a few laps of its roundabouts!

:-P

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on July 26, 2012, 04:25:21 PM
At the ribbon cutting event today, it was announced the interchange should open by 5am Saturday (July 28th).
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on July 30, 2012, 09:33:04 AM
More about the opening, local reaction:
http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/green_bay/mason-street-business-happy-bridge-has-re-opened
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: DaBigE on July 30, 2012, 09:47:25 AM
Quote from: Fox 11 News on July 30, 2012, 09:33:04 AM
More about the opening, local reaction:
http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/green_bay/mason-street-business-happy-bridge-has-re-opened

Gotta love those that confuse roundabouts with rotaries! :pan: :pan:  They may look similar, but they operate completely different.

I wonder if there was this much angst when traffic signals were new?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: agentsteel53 on July 30, 2012, 12:37:34 PM
I still, to this day, get them confused.  throw in "traffic circle", too.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hbelkins on July 30, 2012, 05:32:25 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 30, 2012, 12:37:34 PM
I still, to this day, get them confused.  throw in "traffic circle", too.

Rotaries, roundabouts and traffic circles are all the same evil spawn of Satan.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: DaBigE on July 30, 2012, 05:39:03 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 30, 2012, 12:37:34 PM
I still, to this day, get them confused.  throw in "traffic circle", too.

Rotaries vs. Roundabouts
http://www.cityofbrooklyncenter.org/DocumentCenter/Home/View/331 (http://www.cityofbrooklyncenter.org/DocumentCenter/Home/View/331)
http://www.differencebetween.net/language/words-language/difference-between-rotary-and-roundabout/ (http://www.differencebetween.net/language/words-language/difference-between-rotary-and-roundabout/)
http://www.ourston.com/resources/roundabouts/what/roundabout-vs-circle.html (http://www.ourston.com/resources/roundabouts/what/roundabout-vs-circle.html)
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/safety/motorist/roaddesign/roundabouts/faq.htm#how (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/safety/motorist/roaddesign/roundabouts/faq.htm#how)

In a nutshell, rotaries are: larger, require weaving within the circle, and are designed for traffic traveling at higher speeds.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: agentsteel53 on July 30, 2012, 05:42:58 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on July 30, 2012, 05:32:25 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 30, 2012, 12:37:34 PM
I still, to this day, get them confused.  throw in "traffic circle", too.

Rotaries, roundabouts and traffic circles are all the same evil spawn of Satan.

the only problem I have with them is that I do not know whether traffic which has passed the point immediately to the right of me is going to exit (straight towards me), or swing across my path.  it is a very tough determination to make.  if you guess wrong, the result is either disastrous (collision) or major inefficiency (yielding to nobody - in heavy traffic, that may have been the only available slot for a while!)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: DaBigE on July 30, 2012, 05:48:45 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 30, 2012, 05:42:58 PM
the only problem I have with them is that I do not know whether traffic which has passed the point immediately to the right of me is going to exit (straight towards me), or swing across my path.  it is a very tough determination to make.  if you guess wrong, the result is either disastrous (collision) or major inefficiency (yielding to nobody - in heavy traffic, that may have been the only available slot for a while!)

I wouldn't call that a major inefficiency...still much better than plugging things up with a collision. A major inefficiency I routinely see are people who wait for those on the other side of the roundabout, not immediately to their left. Basically, they wait for the roundabout to practically be empty before they will enter.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: agentsteel53 on July 30, 2012, 05:52:50 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on July 30, 2012, 05:48:45 PM

I wouldn't call that a major inefficiency...still much better than plugging things up with a collision. A major inefficiency I routinely see are people who wait for those on the other side of the roundabout, not immediately to their left. Basically, they wait for the roundabout to practically be empty before they will enter.

I have not encountered that problem nearly as much. 

I've driven a lot of very heavy roundabouts in Europe, and it really is tricky having to guess when a car is going to exit and make room for me.  I have never guessed catastrophically wrong, but I'll bet there were people behind me thinking "why didn't he get in there??"
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on July 31, 2012, 06:36:35 AM
you mean people who stop at Yield signs when no traffic is approaching in the right-of-way? :pan:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on August 02, 2012, 12:11:24 PM
Looking at the DOT's Website for Highway 41, it looks like the only options they're giving out for numbers are I-41, I-47, I-594 and I-643...wonder if they're dropping consideration for I-55/57 altogether. Though it appears as though if they can get the 41 designation (thru whatever talks with NC DOT), it would stretch all the way to the Illinois State Line. If that's the case, then hell, extend it south thru Chicago! I guess, what's the difference, right? as long as it's not an intrastate because let's face it--like we need another one of those. Something to give drivers a sense of "One Freeway to and from Chicago"...maybe IDOT (though after seeing it on here i must agree on the IDiOT) would be more agreeable to duplexing 41 with 94 for continuity purposes...then again, maybe not, given the fact that from the sounds of it they pretty much threw a fit when they found out we wanted them to bring I-55 up to GB.

All I can say is it better not get I-643, because no way should 41 be considered a child freeway to I-43, from Milwaukee to GB. That is a joke of an interstate, and 41 deserves a 2di over that. 594? eh...i'd rather see 41 or 47 (in that order) if we can't have 55...which of course makes the MOST sense. I still say we should sign it I-55 from Kenosha to GB and see what IDiOT does. What really can they do? I'd like to say they'd have no choice but to sign it the way we wanted it, but it is an uneducated statement.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: gbgoose on August 02, 2012, 12:44:09 PM
To elaborate more about the 41 upgrade - here's the PDF. 

http://www.dot.state.wi.us/projects/neregion/41/docs/ex-pim201205all.pdf (http://www.dot.state.wi.us/projects/neregion/41/docs/ex-pim201205all.pdf)
From Wis DOT http://www.dot.state.wi.us/projects/neregion/41/public.htm (http://www.dot.state.wi.us/projects/neregion/41/public.htm)

I'm curious if IDiOT has had a role in blocking I-55 through Chicago north to the state line. 

I agree with merrycilantro that the 3-DI interstates should not be used for 41.  I'd say go with I-41 first, I-47, if they decide on a 3-DI - then go with I-594.  643 should be dropped right off the bat.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Revive 755 on August 02, 2012, 11:11:45 PM
But if we can't have new single state US routes, why should single state two digit interstates be allowed?

I second the notion for having WisDOT sign it as I-55 and eventually force IDOT and ISTHA to sign the extension.

I'm also curious WisDOT didn't considering simply extending I-894 north to Green Bay.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on August 03, 2012, 06:43:01 AM
What is it with WI and pointless concurrencies?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on August 03, 2012, 07:52:41 AM
Quote from: Revive 755 on August 02, 2012, 11:11:45 PM
But if we can't have new single state US routes, why should single state two digit interstates be allowed?

I second the notion for having WisDOT sign it as I-55 and eventually force IDOT and ISTHA to sign the extension.

I'm also curious WisDOT didn't considering simply extending I-894 north to Green Bay.

I-894 designation wouldn't work for 41, because for an even numbered 3di it's gotta connect at both ends to its parent Interstate (I'm sure there are exceptions or violations if you will, but for the most part, that's the general rule).

My question is, *has* the idea of I-55 being signed up to GB been blocked, or are we all just assuming so because we haven't heard anything about it (not to mention it's not even LISTED in WisDOT's Numbering List on the site mentioned above)?

And hey now, I wouldn't necessarily call them POINTLESS Concurrencies...though the I-39 extension...yeah...that was Illinois' fault to begin with though, if I'm not mistaken. IIRC, we were supposed to share 39 (or whatever the original # was supposed to be, along with 57. I do agree though, there'd be plenty of other ways to route 90 and 94 on their own respective alignments, if WisDOT (and the NIMBYs) would just oblige. Wis 29, for example. We could get rid of the Northern Leg of I-43 altogether, and just run 94 along that and then route it onto Wis29 to Eau Claire. Makes me wonder what those planners in the 40's and 50's were on...what kind of expansion they may have been expecting, or just even why they planned the freeways the way they did.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on August 03, 2012, 08:46:35 AM
Quote from: Revive 755 on August 02, 2012, 11:11:45 PM
But if we can't have new single state US routes, why should single state two digit interstates be allowed?


Well, philosophically I agree with you.  However they are fundamentally different numbering systems.  Interstates speak to a certain standard of freeway - and if those freeways exist within state boundaries, they are deserving of the designation.

US highways are simply state highways with a common numbering system.  So it makes no sense to have them within a state when a state number would suffice.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on August 03, 2012, 08:47:37 AM
Quote from: Master son on August 03, 2012, 06:43:01 AM
What is it with WI and pointless concurrencies?


If you want pointless concurrencies, you should see the original state highway map.  Oftentimes there would be four state highways signed on the same route.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Jordanah1 on August 03, 2012, 11:08:35 AM
can someone mabey email someone from Illinois DOT, and ask if I55 has been blocked by them, it cant hurt to try, and im guessing either it will be a definite blocked, or an 'IDK' were they really just didnt have anything to do with it...
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: agentsteel53 on August 03, 2012, 11:19:17 AM
Quote from: Jordanah1 on August 03, 2012, 11:08:35 AM
can someone mabey email someone from Illinois DOT, and ask if I55 has been blocked by them, it cant hurt to try, and im guessing either it will be a definite blocked, or an 'IDK' were they really just didnt have anything to do with it...

where did you learn to type? the toilet store?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on August 03, 2012, 02:38:00 PM
That's actually not a bad idea...the worst they could do is ignore it...I'll do it and post whatever reply (should I get one) on here. Honestly, I would never have thought of that idea myself. I know, says a lot about me doesn't it?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Revive 755 on August 03, 2012, 06:15:23 PM
This is the possibly second hand/trickle down info I got out of an IDOT employee today - will be interesting to see if merrycilantro gets a different answer.

1. The Feds have blocked the I-55 option for now.  Wisconsin may try again later.

2. I-55 was apparently going to be cosigned along I-90/I-94 and then along I-94.

Next few may just be the opinion of the employee:

3. Wisconsin just wants I-55 for advertising reasons; no point for Illinois to go along.

4. Sending I-55 north is an illogical routing - through traffic from the south should be using I-39 to Wisconsin (didn't seem wise to start arguing about not bringing I-43 down along US 51 to Blormal or how Chicago - Memphis would take I-57 over I-55.

5. Seem to be implied that IDOT had issues with having to pick a new number for the current section of I-55.

6. No point in extending I-55

7. Confusing to drivers to add another intestate designation along the Kennedy.

8.  I'm not sure I understood this part right: Seemed to be if IL 53 got extended up to the border (more of a straight north facility, not the north and then west along IL 120 and US 12 corridor), and Wisconsin built a new connecting facility, Illinois might be a tad more open to rerouting I-55.  Either that or IDOT is open to extending the I-355 designation into Wisconsin.

9. No point in extending I-55 north from Chicago.  It ends at Lake Shore Drive.  No reason for the I-55 designation to even go to Lake Shore Drive - better to end it at I-90/94.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mukade on August 03, 2012, 08:47:24 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on August 03, 2012, 06:15:23 PM
4. Sending I-55 north is an illogical routing - through traffic from the south should be using I-39 to Wisconsin (didn't seem wise to start arguing about not bringing I-43 down along US 51 to Blormal or how Chicago - Memphis would take I-57 over I-55.

Well, that is pretty obvious. Why WisDOT can't see this one is beyond me.

What would they say about the more logical I-57 or I-65 numbers. That would tell the tale on if IDOT is a problem.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Revive 755 on August 03, 2012, 10:33:25 PM
Given the tone I got, at least from the employee I was dealing with - seemed to be getting along the lines of 'why would anyone actually care about the numbering' - I would say IDOT is no-go on any existing numbering being extended. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mukade on August 04, 2012, 12:08:57 AM
It sounds like you're right judging by the tone, but it would still be interesting to ask about other numbers anyway. IDOT obviously does care about numbers as there are many Interstates in Illinois - they have petitioned for and received many over the years.

Does the Wisconsin FHWA rep have any sway in this?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: JREwing78 on August 05, 2012, 11:48:11 AM
Quote from: merrycilantro on August 03, 2012, 07:52:41 AM
We could get rid of the Northern Leg of I-43 altogether, and just run 94 along that and then route it onto Wis29 to Eau Claire. Makes me wonder what those planners in the 40's and 50's were on...what kind of expansion they may have been expecting, or just even why they planned the freeways the way they did.

It could also get an I-96 designation. This actually would make sense as I-96 in Michigan terminates in Muskegon, which has the ferry to Milwaukee from there. I-96 would have a rather long N-S section posted E-W, but otherwise would do the trick nicely.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on August 05, 2012, 12:38:12 PM
That's not the Interstate you're looking for (will be a looooong time before 29 gets that due to the Elk Mound interchange with I-94)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on August 05, 2012, 09:24:40 PM
I will summarize my impression from the PIM this May and say that Wisconsin will either get 55 or 41.
55 seemed to be the first pick of the DOT types and was the only Chicagoland interstate Illinois was even willing to consider.
41 seemed to be the first pick of the general public and still acceptable to DOT types.
Nobody liked the 3di alternatives; either new ones or 476-ing this thing with 894.
47 seemed like it was just there as an afterthought.

If there is going to be too much resistance to 55, then my money is on 41; my first choice given way the grid was messed up in this part of the continent.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Stratuscaster on August 05, 2012, 10:49:52 PM
Still think I-57 is a better choice. If they are just going to run I-55 up the Ryan/Kennedy/Edens anyway, may as well do that with I-57. It already funnels into I-94/Ryan "naturally" - 55 doesn't.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hobsini2 on August 06, 2012, 01:24:10 PM
Quote from: JREwing78 on August 05, 2012, 11:48:11 AM
Quote from: merrycilantro on August 03, 2012, 07:52:41 AM
We could get rid of the Northern Leg of I-43 altogether, and just run 94 along that and then route it onto Wis29 to Eau Claire. Makes me wonder what those planners in the 40's and 50's were on...what kind of expansion they may have been expecting, or just even why they planned the freeways the way they did.

It could also get an I-96 designation. This actually would make sense as I-96 in Michigan terminates in Muskegon, which has the ferry to Milwaukee from there. I-96 would have a rather long N-S section posted E-W, but otherwise would do the trick nicely.

Frankly, I would rather see I-96 be extended northwest along US 31 from Muskegon to Ludington, then take the USS Badger Ferry to Manitowoc, upgrade Waldo Blvd to a freeway, use I-43 up to Green Bay, WIS 172 and US 41 freeways to bypass GB on the south and west to meet up with WIS 29. Then go west on 29 to I-94 at Elk Mound. This would eliminate a ton of miles and traffic for Detroit to Minneapolis traffic.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: NE2 on August 06, 2012, 01:42:17 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on August 06, 2012, 01:24:10 PM
This would eliminate a ton of miles and traffic for Detroit to Minneapolis traffic.
It only saves 57 out of 690 miles per Google Maps. Taking the Muskegon-Milwaukee ferry is shorter (saving 70 miles) due to the diagonal of I-94.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on August 06, 2012, 01:59:06 PM
Not to mention that it would be significantly longer time-wise...that the Badger ferry wouldn't be able to handle interstate level traffic and is closed during the winter....and you would be tearing up most of downtown Manitowoc. 

All for how much traffic that runs from Detroit to the Twin Cities?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hobsini2 on August 06, 2012, 02:29:30 PM
Ah but by going up to Ludington-Manitowoc-Green Bay-Wausau instead, you miss the traffic of Northwest Indiana, Chicago, Milwaukee (or Rockford if you prefer I-90), and Madison.

Look at the population difference between Detroit and Minneapolis if you take I-96 as apposed to I-94/90.

I-94:
Michigan - Washtenaw, Jackson, Calhoun, Kalamazoo, Van Buren, and Berrien pop is 1,124,587.  I excluded counting Wayne County since both 94 and 96 are in it.
Indiana - La Porte, Porter, and Lake pop is 771,815.
Illinois - Cook and Lake pop is 5,898,137.
Wisconsin - Kenosha, Racine, Milwaukee, Waukesha, Jefferson, Dane, Columbia, Sauk, Monroe, Jackson, Trempealeau, and Eau Claire pop is 2,609,548. I excluded Dunn County since both 94 and Wis 29 (my prop of I-96) are in it.
So going just on I-94, that is a total pop of 10,404,087.

Using I-90 between Chicago and Madison:
Illinois - Cook, Kane, McHenry, Boone, and Winnebago pop is 6,368,135.
Wisconsin - Rock and Dane pop is 648,404
Pop of I-90 segment is 7,016,539.
Total pop of I-94 with I-90 avoiding Milwaukee is 9,251,088.

I-96 + my proposal of I-96:
Michigan - Oakland, Livingston, Ingham, Eaton, Clinton, Ionia, Kent, Ottawa, Muskegon, Oceana, and Mason pop is 3,005,156.
Wisconsin - Manitowoc, Brown, Shawano, Marathon, Clark and Chippewa pop is 602,566.
Total pop of 3,607,722.

That makes a difference of 6,796,365 fewer people from I-94 only and difference of 5,643,366 fewer people from I-94 via I-90.

So tell me again why this is a bad idea? Think big picture guys.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: NE2 on August 06, 2012, 02:31:36 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on August 06, 2012, 02:29:30 PM
So tell me again why this is a bad idea?
OK, if you insist:
Quote from: NE2 on August 06, 2012, 01:42:17 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on August 06, 2012, 01:24:10 PM
This would eliminate a ton of miles and traffic for Detroit to Minneapolis traffic.
It only saves 57 out of 690 miles per Google Maps. Taking the Muskegon-Milwaukee ferry is shorter (saving 70 miles) due to the diagonal of I-94.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on August 06, 2012, 04:04:59 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on August 06, 2012, 02:29:30 PM
So tell me again why this is a bad idea? Think big picture guys.


I did this already....

1. It would take too much time.  The boat takes five hours to cross the lake.
2. The boat is not big enough and is closed in the winter
3. Tearing up downtown Manitowoc to put in a freeway is a completely unnecessary idea.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on August 07, 2012, 11:57:26 PM
Here is the Response I got from IDOT:

Thank you for your email concerning conversion of US 41 to an Interstate in Wisconsin and possible numbering as I-55.  As you may be aware, extending the I-55 designation from Chicago north to Wisconsin would require concurrence of both states.  Illinois has declined Wisconsin's offer to extend either I-55 or I-57 northward.  Since the Wisconsin Department of Transportation was the lead agency regarding the proposal, you might wish to contact them for further information concerning the US 41 conversion.  The following is a link to some contacts in Wisconsin as well as a link to their project public information site:  http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/neregion/41/contacts.htm     http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/neregion/41/public.htm

So, I guess, given that, I would have to agree that they'll probably sign it as I-41, and if that doesn't work then I-47. I guess for continuity purposes I would hope that somewhere down the Line, IDOT would do a southerly extension of 41 or 47 into Illinois...if it matters to the drivers thru Chicagoland at all.

I will, of course, be emailing WisDOT as suggested by the email, to get WisDOT's view on the whole ordeal. Details, of course, to come.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on August 08, 2012, 12:21:01 AM
And if there is no satisfaction in any circle, perhaps another Act of Congress would be in order.

:rolleyes:

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: on_wisconsin on August 08, 2012, 01:03:55 AM
Just sign it I-41, it fits our state grid and has public support.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mukade on August 08, 2012, 07:17:50 AM
Quote from: merrycilantro on August 07, 2012, 11:57:26 PM
Here is the Response I got from IDOT:

Thank you for your email concerning conversion of US 41 to an Interstate in Wisconsin and possible numbering as I-55.  As you may be aware, extending the I-55 designation from Chicago north to Wisconsin would require concurrence of both states.  Illinois has declined Wisconsin's offer to extend either I-55 or I-57 northward.  Since the Wisconsin Department of Transportation was the lead agency regarding the proposal, you might wish to contact them for further information concerning the US 41 conversion.  The following is a link to some contacts in Wisconsin as well as a link to their project public information site:  http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/neregion/41/contacts.htm     http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/neregion/41/public.htm

A couple of things - other than not wanting to build far-fetched highways like I-73 and I-66 (extension), have states ever declined another state's request.

Taking another angle on this, one thing that used to motivate Illinois back in the 70s and 80s was getting a new Interstate route. That is when I-39, I-72, and I-88 came into being. While I-72 was built that designation published, I don't remember the I-39 designation being given before construction began (at least maps did not show it until late in the game). I-88 was a number given to Illinois 5. So if the current IDOT leadership has the same philosophy, someone should suggest I-65.

In other words, appeal to their pride. Adding another route might put Illinois into the lead for 2dis - or something like that. I forget if Pennsylvania, Texas, or Illinois leads that race at the moment. That could answer the "whats in it for me?" issue IDOT seems to have. Its a longshot, but pride is a often a more powerful factor than people think.

What's the worst that could happen?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on August 08, 2012, 10:14:12 AM
My understanding is that IDOT only sought designations for IL-5 and US-51 because at the time the 65 mph speed limit was specifically limited to interstates.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: english si on August 08, 2012, 10:48:04 AM
TX: 10 (10, 20, 27, 30, 35, 37, 40, 44 45, 69) with I-49 planned to just clip the state at Texarkana
IL: 12 (24, 39, 55, 57, 64 70 72, 74, 80, 88, 90, 94)
PA: 12 (70, 76, 78 79, 80, 81, 83, 84, 86, 90, 95 99)

So I-41, I-47 and I-65 options are needed in the 'most 2dis' biggus dikkus' contest.
QuoteA couple of things - other than not wanting to build far-fetched highways like I-73 and I-66 (extension), have states ever declined another state's request.
One hopes NY does it with I-99. Wasn't it mentioned upthread that WI wanted the US51 freeway in IL to be I-43, but IL vetoed it? And what happened to I-57 on what is now I-43 - another IL veto?

There's also the AZ/CA I-8/I-10/I-12 thing, where AZ said "do you mind if we have I-12 being the route to LA and I-10 being the route to SD?" CA said yes and then AZ changed it's mind.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hobsini2 on August 08, 2012, 01:09:30 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 08, 2012, 10:14:12 AM
My understanding is that IDOT only sought designations for IL-5 and US-51 because at the time the 65 mph speed limit was specifically limited to interstates.
You are correct. Illinois applied for interstate-ship for IL 5 and US 51 so that they could, under what was the law, have the rural speed limit on those highways as 65. If the interstate rule for higher speed limits was not around back then, it would be possible that both highways would have remain as IL 5 and US 51 similar to US 12 freeway in SE Wisconsin.  Interestingly enough, the IL 56 freeway west of Aurora never did get it's speed raised to 65 despite being mostly rural. BTW, don't speed on that freeway. the Sugar Grove cops patrol it very strictly.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Revive 755 on August 08, 2012, 08:36:23 PM
^ But the IL 56 expressway does not have paved shoulders - don't all the other 65 mph routes in IL have the shoulders paved?

Second thing to consider is the speed limit on I-88 - if the section of I-88 that the expressway ties into is only posted at 55, IDOT is unlikely to up the speed limit on IL 56 in the name of consistency.

As to Illinois only making the East-West Tollway and the US 51 corridors into interstates to get them posted at 65 - other than extensions of existing facilities, I don't think there has been a brand new interstate number added in Illinois after 1996.  Sure there has not been a lot of freeway construction since then, but I don't think IDOT is going for intestate designations for IL 255 once that facility is completed.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mukade on August 08, 2012, 08:53:05 PM
IDOT is pretty proud of the place Illinois has with respect to Interstates. "Illinois, with 2,169.53 miles of interstate highways, ranks third in the nation in interstate miles; only Texas (3,233.45 miles) and California (2,455.74 miles) rank ahead of the Land of Lincoln. In Illinois...".

ILLINOIS INTERSTATES: CROSSROADS OF THE NATION (http://www.dot.state.il.us/il50/il_interstates.html) from the Interstate system 50th anniversary project.

Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hbelkins on August 08, 2012, 09:11:03 PM
Quote from: english si on August 08, 2012, 10:48:04 AMOne hopes NY does it with I-99.

NY already has "Future I-99 corridor" signs on US 15 between Corning and the state line.

What NY should do is extend I-99 north along I-390 to at least the Thruway, if not I-490 in Rochester.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Stratuscaster on August 08, 2012, 11:16:02 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on August 08, 2012, 08:36:23 PM
Second thing to consider is the speed limit on I-88 - if the section of I-88 that the expressway ties into is only posted at 55, IDOT is unlikely to up the speed limit on IL 56 in the name of consistency.
I-88 at the IL-56 freeway is posted at 65 - it drops down to 55 a bit east of there; I cannot recall if it's west or east of Orchard Road.

IMHO, until they rebuild the IL-56 expressway from the ground up, there's little reason to up the limit from 55 - that is one very rough stretch of road.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Stratuscaster on August 08, 2012, 11:21:03 PM
Quote from: mukade on August 08, 2012, 07:17:50 AM
...someone should suggest I-65.
Now you have to get both Illinois AND Indiana to play ball.

If the quality of the US-41 route is said to be better than the existing I-43 route, then make US-41 into I-43 and make I-43 up the lakeshore into a 3DI.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mukade on August 09, 2012, 06:25:19 AM
Quote from: Stratuscaster on August 08, 2012, 11:21:03 PM
Now you have to get both Illinois AND Indiana to play ball.

Indiana seems to be sort of doing that on the Borman - albeit in a weird way. See this post (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=6370.msg157786#msg157786) (although that could be a fluke).

Regardless, I don't recall Indiana ever not working with its neighbors.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hobsini2 on August 09, 2012, 12:52:43 PM
Quote from: Stratuscaster on August 08, 2012, 11:16:02 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on August 08, 2012, 08:36:23 PM
Second thing to consider is the speed limit on I-88 - if the section of I-88 that the expressway ties into is only posted at 55, IDOT is unlikely to up the speed limit on IL 56 in the name of consistency.
I-88 at the IL-56 freeway is posted at 65 - it drops down to 55 a bit east of there; I cannot recall if it's west or east of Orchard Road.

IMHO, until they rebuild the IL-56 expressway from the ground up, there's little reason to up the limit from 55 - that is one very rough stretch of road.

It's a mile east of Orchard (near the Randall Rd bridge) where the 55 zone starts.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hobsini2 on August 09, 2012, 12:54:32 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on August 08, 2012, 08:36:23 PM
^ But the IL 56 expressway does not have paved shoulders - don't all the other 65 mph routes in IL have the shoulders paved?

Second thing to consider is the speed limit on I-88 - if the section of I-88 that the expressway ties into is only posted at 55, IDOT is unlikely to up the speed limit on IL 56 in the name of consistency.

As to Illinois only making the East-West Tollway and the US 51 corridors into interstates to get them posted at 65 - other than extensions of existing facilities, I don't think there has been a brand new interstate number added in Illinois after 1996.  Sure there has not been a lot of freeway construction since then, but I don't think IDOT is going for intestate designations for IL 255 once that facility is completed.

The last "new" interstate that I can think of was the conversion of IL 121 between Lincoln and Morton to I-155.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: on_wisconsin on August 09, 2012, 07:58:05 PM
^
Thats cool, what about USH-41 in Wisconsin? Anyone have a new constuction update, how is the new US-45 interchange working? 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on August 09, 2012, 09:30:19 PM
Quote from: on_wisconsin on August 09, 2012, 07:58:05 PM
^
Thats cool, what about USH-41 in Wisconsin? Anyone have a new constuction update, how is the new US-45 interchange working?

It appears to be working splendidly (at least it did during EAA week).

:cheers:

BTW, I'm now calling it the 'Algoma' interchange (US 41, interchange 120).

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: nwi_navigator_1181 on August 09, 2012, 11:54:41 PM
If I may ask, what is wrong with keeping the original U.S. 41 designation? U.S. highways built to interstate grade are not as rare as one may think. The Avenue of the Saints (mostly U.S. 61), U.S. 131 and 127 in Michigan, and eventually U.S. 31 in Michigan and Indiana come to mind immediately.

If WisDOT insists on adding an interstate to the deal (in which I don't see any harm in doing, see I-39), don't remove the U.S. 41 designation. That's really all I ask.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: NE2 on August 10, 2012, 12:01:31 AM
Avenue of the Saints is far from Interstate standard, due to the many at-grades. US 127 still has a couple north of Lansing, and is part of porky I-73.

US 41 won't disappear, since it exists to the north and south.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: gbgoose on August 10, 2012, 08:20:15 AM
Quote from: nwi_navigator_1181 on August 09, 2012, 11:54:41 PM
If I may ask, what is wrong with keeping the original U.S. 41 designation? U.S. highways built to interstate grade are not as rare as one may think. The Avenue of the Saints (mostly U.S. 61), U.S. 131 and 127 in Michigan, and eventually U.S. 31 in Michigan and Indiana come to mind immediately.

If WisDOT insists on adding an interstate to the deal (in which I don't see any harm in doing, see I-39), don't remove the U.S. 41 designation. That's really all I ask.

Wisconsin wants the interstate funding, potential business and perhaps additional tourists that the interstate designation were to bring to 41.  If you ask the locals here, most will probably even still call it 41 even after the upgrade.

Living in Green Bay, I posted a while back there was a push for I-55 to claim to have a through-route to New Orleans, but reading lately that probably won't happen, so I'd guess to see I-41 when the meetings take place in November.  It is possible, even probable U.S. 41 could be re-routed say along WI-57 - but that would be confusing to have an I-41 and U.S. 41 within 40 miles of one another, crossing in Green Bay.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Jordanah1 on August 10, 2012, 10:17:55 AM
i would route US41 along its historic route through the local downtowns, if I41 is in fact the designation.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on August 10, 2012, 10:19:37 AM
Quote from: Jordanah1 on August 10, 2012, 10:17:55 AM
i would route US41 along its historic route through the local downtowns, if I41 is in fact the designation.


That would just create confusion.  And my guess is that WIDOT would rather decommission WI-175 to a county highway than resign it as a USH.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: NE2 on August 10, 2012, 11:31:49 AM
Quote from: Jordanah1 on August 10, 2012, 10:17:55 AM
i would route US41 along its historic route through the local downtowns, if I41 is in fact the designation.
That would indeed be confusing if it's I-41. And AASHTO would never agree. Once you move a U.S. Route to a freeway, you never go back.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on August 10, 2012, 04:22:50 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on August 09, 2012, 09:30:19 PM
BTW, I'm now calling it the 'Algoma' interchange (US 41, interchange 120).

Makes sense since it's Algoma Blvd.  But I was always curious about something in Oshkosh that maybe a local might know.  The Town of Oshkosh is north of the Fox River and the Town of Algoma is south of the Fox River, yet in the City of Oshkosh, Algoma Blvd is north of the Fox River and Oshkosh Ave is south of the Fox River.  :hmmm:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on August 10, 2012, 04:45:42 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on August 10, 2012, 04:22:50 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on August 09, 2012, 09:30:19 PM
BTW, I'm now calling it the 'Algoma' interchange (US 41, interchange 120).

Makes sense since it's Algoma Blvd.  But I was always curious about something in Oshkosh that maybe a local might know.  The Town of Oshkosh is north of the Fox River and the Town of Algoma is south of the Fox River, yet in the City of Oshkosh, Algoma Blvd is north of the Fox River and Oshkosh Ave is south of the Fox River.  :hmmm:


Most likely they were named for where they were heading.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Jordanah1 on August 10, 2012, 05:52:19 PM
when oshkosh was founded way back in the day (1840-1850's) oshkosh and algoma were compeating towns in the lumber industry. algoma was further upstream (more or less were the oshkosh ave/congress bridge is) in fact the second river crossing in the area was were the current oshkosh ave bridge is, the first was ferry street (now main street). the origional 'Algoma' was anexed in 1856, the current town of algoma is a seperate entity entirely. i could be wrong about some of this, i will try to find a link to some info.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on August 10, 2012, 08:41:08 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on August 10, 2012, 04:22:50 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on August 09, 2012, 09:30:19 PM
BTW, I'm now calling it the 'Algoma' interchange (US 41, interchange 120).

Makes sense since it's Algoma Blvd.  But I was always curious about something in Oshkosh that maybe a local might know.  The Town of Oshkosh is north of the Fox River and the Town of Algoma is south of the Fox River, yet in the City of Oshkosh, Algoma Blvd is north of the Fox River and Oshkosh Ave is south of the Fox River.  :hmmm:

I was pondering those same thoughts while I was thinking this over and concluded that the street names are far, far better known by the public at large than are the unincorporated townships, which are, for the most part, unknown outside of the immediate metro area.  I would even challenge anyone from the Appleton area, as far south as Neenah, to describe where Algoma Township in Winnebago County is located.  The City of Algoma (it's on the Lake Michigan lakeshore north of Manitowoc) is far better known by all.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hobsini2 on August 11, 2012, 06:43:36 AM
As per my father (a former resident of Oshkosh) and grandmother (a former archivist at the Oshkosh Public Museum), city of Oshkosh was at one point to become the city of Algoma when the two towns merged but the USPS had said no since there already was a city of Algoma in Wisconsin.  So the city became Oshkosh instead.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hbelkins on August 11, 2012, 03:21:04 PM
Quote from: NE2 on August 10, 2012, 11:31:49 AM
That would indeed be confusing if it's I-41. And AASHTO would never agree. Once you move a U.S. Route to a freeway, you never go back.

US 60 in Louisville disagrees with you.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: NE2 on August 11, 2012, 03:26:21 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on August 11, 2012, 03:21:04 PM
Quote from: NE2 on August 10, 2012, 11:31:49 AM
That would indeed be confusing if it's I-41. And AASHTO would never agree. Once you move a U.S. Route to a freeway, you never go back.

US 60 in Louisville disagrees with you.

When did that move? Was it any time in the past 20 years?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hbelkins on August 11, 2012, 11:05:53 PM
Quote from: NE2 on August 11, 2012, 03:26:21 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on August 11, 2012, 03:21:04 PM
Quote from: NE2 on August 10, 2012, 11:31:49 AM
That would indeed be confusing if it's I-41. And AASHTO would never agree. Once you move a U.S. Route to a freeway, you never go back.

US 60 in Louisville disagrees with you.

When did that move? Was it any time in the past 20 years?

More like 30 years. It's been off the Watterson Expressway (I-264) and back through downtown for a long, long time.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: NE2 on August 11, 2012, 11:47:33 PM
That's why. AASHTO used to be more lax about it.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: amroad17 on August 12, 2012, 07:25:00 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on August 11, 2012, 03:21:04 PM
Quote from: NE2 on August 10, 2012, 11:31:49 AM
That would indeed be confusing if it's I-41. And AASHTO would never agree. Once you move a U.S. Route to a freeway, you never go back.

US 60 in Louisville disagrees with you.
Don't forget about US 117 in NC!
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: NE2 on August 12, 2012, 08:11:15 PM
Quote from: amroad17 on August 12, 2012, 07:25:00 PM
Don't forget about US 117 in NC!
That's the so-called exception that proves the rule, except that it really does follow the rule, since AASHTO denied the move and NCDOT did it anyway.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: on_wisconsin on August 12, 2012, 08:36:35 PM
^
That's very nice and and all. BUT what about US 41 in Wisconsin!?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on August 13, 2012, 07:38:13 AM
Quote from: on_wisconsin on August 12, 2012, 08:36:35 PM
^
That's very nice and and all. BUT what about US 41 in Wisconsin!?
SMH

Reality - it will be left alone (think about the poor northern terminus in Copper Harbor.)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: bulldog1979 on August 13, 2012, 02:47:43 PM
Quote from: on_wisconsin on August 12, 2012, 08:36:35 PM
^
That's very nice and and all. BUT what about US 41 in Wisconsin!?

Well, I don't think anything will change. WisDOT may stop signing US 41 along the section that's upgraded to an Interstate, especially if it's numbered I-41, but once the Interstate ends, I fully expect the designation to just "reappear" on the highway. Why can I state that with some confidence? Michigan still has its segment, and I don't see that changing. So long as US 41 runs through the Upper Peninsula to Copper Harbor, Wisconsin will have to maintain the number in its state.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: vtk on August 13, 2012, 06:41:25 PM
Quote from: mukade on August 09, 2012, 06:25:19 AM
Regardless, I don't recall Indiana ever not working with its neighbors.

I thought I read somewhere that Indiana really dragged its feet getting part of I-94 built, until Michigan sued.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on August 13, 2012, 08:16:45 PM
Quote from: bulldog1979 on August 13, 2012, 02:47:43 PM
Quote from: on_wisconsin on August 12, 2012, 08:36:35 PM
^
That's very nice and and all. BUT what about US 41 in Wisconsin!?

Well, I don't think anything will change. WisDOT may stop signing US 41 along the section that's upgraded to an Interstate, especially if it's numbered I-41, but once the Interstate ends, I fully expect the designation to just "reappear" on the highway.  Why can I state that with some confidence? Michigan still has its segment, and I don't see that changing. So long as US 41 runs through the Upper Peninsula to Copper Harbor, Wisconsin will have to maintain the number in its state.
Not happening. WisDOT will sign them both.  It's in their nature.  How many shields can they put on their one-piece sine salads? No limit.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on August 13, 2012, 10:05:11 PM
Quote from: Master son on August 13, 2012, 08:16:45 PM
Not happening. WisDOT will sign them both.  It's in their nature.  How many shields can they put on their one-piece sine salads? No limit.

Agreed.  I'd fully expect to see the one piece with North I-41/North US-41 all the way to Abrams if that's the chosen number. WisDOT *loves* sine salads! :-D
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on August 13, 2012, 10:26:05 PM
Worse, they will likely still keep US-41 running through Milwaukee and downtown instead of simply extending WI-175 to the Stadium interchange....or further south until WI-59.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: on_wisconsin on August 13, 2012, 10:38:16 PM
crappy mockup of the likely future (minus cardinal directions):

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv704%2Fpackerfan386%2F02f8ea22.png&hash=57415e59bfc8b1f6a15b6acf5d151d6e43f4fb82)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Jordanah1 on August 14, 2012, 12:10:51 AM
if say US41 became unsigned along I-XX, what would happen to the buisiness/alternate US41's? would they remain, become buisiness/alternate I-XX, or even be removed entirely? and if they did sign it I41 and US41, would the current buisiness/alernate routes be signed as both aswell?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on August 14, 2012, 12:22:20 AM
Quote from: Jordanah1 on August 14, 2012, 12:10:51 AM
if say US41 became unsigned along I-XX, what would happen to the buisiness/alternate US41's? would they remain, become buisiness/alternate I-XX, or even be removed entirely? and if they did sign it I41 and US41, would the current buisiness/alernate routes be signed as both aswell?

There are no 'BR US 41's left, they've all been decommissioned.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Jordanah1 on August 14, 2012, 11:34:32 AM
ok, but part of my question is still left unanswered, what happens to the alt US 41's? are they decommissioned with the unsigning of US 41, are they replaced or cosigned with alt I-XX? what happens, i was thinking this recently, because i have been driving jackson/oregon st. in oshkosh alot recently, and see the alt US 41 signs, and was wondering what would happen to them.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on August 14, 2012, 11:40:49 AM
They'd likely be resigned like the main highway itself.  I don't believe that AASTHO has to directly approve every 'ALT' route.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on August 14, 2012, 08:16:25 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 13, 2012, 10:26:05 PM
Worse, they will likely still keep US-41 running through Milwaukee and downtown instead of simply extending WI-175 to the Stadium interchange....or further south until WI-59.

I was told at a PIM that WisDOT intends to reroute the US 41 designation to an all freeway alignment through metro Milwaukee along with the new interstate to follow I-894 and the Zoo Freeway.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hobsini2 on August 15, 2012, 02:32:22 PM
Quote from: Jordanah1 on August 14, 2012, 11:34:32 AM
ok, but part of my question is still left unanswered, what happens to the alt US 41's? are they decommissioned with the unsigning of US 41, are they replaced or cosigned with alt I-XX? what happens, i was thinking this recently, because i have been driving jackson/oregon st. in oshkosh alot recently, and see the alt US 41 signs, and was wondering what would happen to them.
Actually I think that the Alt 41 signs are not a real route like Bus 42 used to be. I have see those signs on 44, 21, and 76. If it was a real route, one of those highways would have been out of the loop. I think it is more like how there are the Alt I-39 north of Madison or Alt I-43 near Beloit.  They are just a guide to get back to the highway if there was something causing the need for a detour off the main line.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on August 15, 2012, 07:51:33 PM
The definition of Alts in Wisconsin are routes recommended for travel in case the main highway is closed/jammed/etc.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hobsini2 on August 17, 2012, 08:46:52 PM
Quote from: Master son on August 15, 2012, 07:51:33 PM
The definition of Alts in Wisconsin are routes recommended for travel in case the main highway is closed/jammed/etc.
That's what i thought.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Cam4rd98 on August 18, 2012, 09:50:00 AM
I read online that U.S. 41 might become interstate 41 in 2014 running parrallel with interstate 43 from Milwaukee to Green Bay

source: http://www.insightonbusiness.com/5270/u-s-highway-41-might-become-interstate-by-2014/
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on August 18, 2012, 02:24:43 PM
Quote from: Cam4rd98 on August 18, 2012, 09:50:00 AM
I read online that U.S. 41 is supposed to become interstate 41 in 2014 running parrallel with interstate 43 from Milwaukee to Green Bay
Care to share the source?  I'm hesitant to believe you unless it was posted on the WisDOT website.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: on_wisconsin on August 18, 2012, 03:52:20 PM
Quote from: Cam4rd98 on August 18, 2012, 09:50:00 AM
I read online that U.S. 41 is supposed to become interstate 41 in 2014 running parrallel with interstate 43 from Milwaukee to Green Bay
Just did a quick search of the WisDOT site as well as several newspapers in eastern WI and couldn't find anything relevant to the name of the freeway.  :-/
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on August 18, 2012, 10:52:00 PM
I think that he's just a slightly over-anxious newbie.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on August 27, 2012, 12:15:08 PM

Full freeway closure of US 41 added for August 28 in Brown County

(Green Bay) The Wisconsin Department of Transportation (WisDOT) Northeast Region is announcing a full freeway closure of US 41, between Lineville Road and Velp Avenue, has been scheduled for Tuesday, August 28, during the hours of 10 p.m. and 5 a.m. In addition, the northbound US 41 on-ramp from Velp Avenue and southbound US 41 on-ramp from Lineville Road will also be closed. The closures are needed for demolition of the Lakeview Drive bridge over US 41.

Details of traffic impacts for Tuesday, August 28:
Complete closure of north and southbound US 41, between Lineville Road and Velp Avenue, from 10 p.m. to 5 a.m.
Northbound US 41 on-ramp from Velp Avenue and southbound US 41 on-ramp from Lineville Road closed from 10 p.m. to 5 a.m.
Northbound I-43 to northbound US 41 ramp closed from 10 p.m. to 5 a.m.
Detour routes around the construction:
Northbound US 41 traffic will be detoured onto Velp Avenue to eastbound Lineville Road. 
The detour route for southbound US 41 motorists will be westbound Lineville Road to Velp Avenue,  Velp Avenue south to US 41.
Northbound US 41 traffic wanting to enter southbound I-43 will use Velp Avenue.
Northbound I-43 traffic wanting to enter northbound US 41 will exit I-43 to southbound US 41, continue to Velp Avenue, follow Velp Avenue north to Lineville Road, travel east on Lineville Road to US 41.   

All lane restrictions are weather dependent and subject to change.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Jordanah1 on August 28, 2012, 12:52:34 PM
the southbound ramps of the US 41 WIS 21 interchange are set to open at 4pm on august 30th. http://www.us41wisconsin.gov/flex/News+US+41+Winnebago+21+southbound+ramps+opening.932
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on September 20, 2012, 09:33:38 AM
A look at the costs associated with the "aesthetics" of the U.S. 41 project:

http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/on_assignment/dot-spends-millions-on-aesthetics
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mukade on September 20, 2012, 09:47:33 AM
Why can't this type of thing be funded by local communities and corporations? I think it is nice, but am not a fan of DOTs spending money on it. Upkeep adds even more cost over time.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: gbgoose on September 20, 2012, 02:23:40 PM
Curious - when would the DOT update the us41.gov site with construction schedules for 2013?  I'd like to have an idea of the schedule in Green Bay next year aside of Hwy 29, Lombardi and De Pere being completed around June.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hobsini2 on September 26, 2012, 09:35:49 PM
Quote from: mukade on September 20, 2012, 09:47:33 AM
Why can't this type of thing be funded by local communities and corporations? I think it is nice, but am not a fan of DOTs spending money on it. Upkeep adds even more cost over time.
The problem that I can see with having the road project separate from the landscaping is that if the DOT just lays sod and let's the local government plant the flora, you would be digging up the sod again to plant and then re-sod it. It is best if it is all done at once. Yes the local governments should contribute to paying for the landscaping but it should be done at one time.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: on_wisconsin on October 03, 2012, 02:56:35 AM
http://www.livestream.com/newchannel/popoutplayer?channel=postcrescent&clip=pla_85d353e8-a0cf-442d-9728-a7408c80ab94&time=3
After watching this interview with WisDOT, I'm starting to get concerned that this conversion might get a 3dI (i.e. pointless) designation.  :pan:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on October 03, 2012, 09:57:57 AM
I didn't get the impression from that video at all.  They are just stating what they have stated publicly before.  I think both of the DOT officials were getting a little annoyed with the multiple questions about the number however....

And skip ahead to about 7:30 if you want to hear the route numbering discussion.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Henry on October 04, 2012, 04:01:01 PM
Quote from: on_wisconsin on August 13, 2012, 10:38:16 PM
crappy mockup of the likely future (minus cardinal directions):

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv704%2Fpackerfan386%2F02f8ea22.png&hash=57415e59bfc8b1f6a15b6acf5d151d6e43f4fb82)
Deja vu...if you've seen I-74 and US 74 together, that is.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: gbgoose on October 17, 2012, 06:11:46 PM
There is an article in the Appleton Post-Crescent today that the WisDOT has submitted I-41 as the preferred number for the unveiling.  Others considered are I-55 and I-57.

If you are past the 'free' number of articles for the month, you may not be able to see this until the 30-days is recycled.
http://www.postcrescent.com/article/20121017/APC03/310170435/US-41-new-interstate-number-revealed-next-month?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE&nclick_check=1 (http://www.postcrescent.com/article/20121017/APC03/310170435/US-41-new-interstate-number-revealed-next-month?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE&nclick_check=1)

I'm curious why Illinois blocked the I-55 or I-57 initial wish from Wisconsin.  Money?  Hassle of signage and re-routing? 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on October 18, 2012, 12:04:45 PM
Another version of the story:
http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/green_bay/interstate-name-for-highway-41-coming-soon

DOT told Fox 11 that it submitted just 41. If that's rejected then, then I47, I643 and I594 would be part of talks - but right now they submitted only I-41.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hbelkins on October 18, 2012, 12:11:15 PM
Quote from: gbgoose on October 17, 2012, 06:11:46 PM
I'm curious why Illinois blocked the I-55 or I-57 initial wish from Wisconsin.  Money?  Hassle of signage and re-routing?

Honestly, why should Illinois have to spend the money to install new signage for something that would not benefit them in any way, when Wisconsin will gain the same benefit no matter what interstate route number is posted on the new road?

That's why I think this "it has to be a two-digit number" argument is totally foolish. An interstate is an interstate, if it's I-xx or I-xxx.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: StogieGuy7 on October 18, 2012, 12:28:49 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 18, 2012, 12:11:15 PM
Honestly, why should Illinois have to spend the money to install new signage for something that would not benefit them in any way, when Wisconsin will gain the same benefit no matter what interstate route number is posted on the new road?

That's why I think this "it has to be a two-digit number" argument is totally foolish. An interstate is an interstate, if it's I-xx or I-xxx.

Don't worry about IL, such an expenditure is a mere drop in the bucket when compared with the millions (billions) that Chicago pols piss away every single year. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on October 18, 2012, 12:37:10 PM
Quote from: Fox 11 News on October 18, 2012, 12:04:45 PM
Another version of the story:
http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/green_bay/interstate-name-for-highway-41-coming-soon

DOT told Fox 11 that it submitted just 41. If that's rejected then, then I47, I643 and I594 would be part of talks - but right now they submitted only I-41.

IMHO, this puts the ball in AASHTO's court and if they don't like it, they could also very well pick a logical extension of an existing 2di and say "Tough!" to IDOT.

:nod:

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Revive 755 on October 18, 2012, 06:27:25 PM
Quote from: gbgoose on October 17, 2012, 06:11:46 PM
I'm curious why Illinois blocked the I-55 or I-57 initial wish from Wisconsin.  Money?  Hassle of signage and re-routing? 

Check in this thread around https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=350.msg165934#msg165934 (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=350.msg165934#msg165934)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on October 19, 2012, 08:30:35 AM
Having just read this news, I must ask: Does anybody know how North Carolina got approved to run the I-74/US 74 concurrency? I assume WisDOT did its research and talked with them...but I'm just curious to know the circumstances that led AASHTO to approve it. I know it won't make a difference to people either way, but I'm sort of hoping for this to blow up. Scenario: AASHTO denies I-41 and somehow enforces the I-55 solution (I thought that was a dead topic but read it in the Appleton Post Crescent article), THAT'D be great to see AASHTO knock IDiOT down a peg or three. Or nine. Not sure where each is on the heirarchy of things but still, in my little pea brain I think that would be great.

Nothing says "New and Improved", or "Interstate Branded Road - DRIVE ME!" like a new number. Recycling 41 is just kinda...for lack of better words, lame. But, the main objective of upgrading it to an interstate will have been acheived, so what does it matter really? Right?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hbelkins on October 19, 2012, 10:08:02 AM
Quote from: merrycilantro on October 19, 2012, 08:30:35 AM
Having just read this news, I must ask: Does anybody know how North Carolina got approved to run the I-74/US 74 concurrency? I assume WisDOT did its research and talked with them...but I'm just curious to know the circumstances that led AASHTO to approve it. I know it won't make a difference to people either way, but I'm sort of hoping for this to blow up. Scenario: AASHTO denies I-41 and somehow enforces the I-55 solution (I thought that was a dead topic but read it in the Appleton Post Crescent article), THAT'D be great to see AASHTO knock IDiOT down a peg or three. Or nine. Not sure where each is on the heirarchy of things but still, in my little pea brain I think that would be great.

AASHTO can't enforce jack crap. AASHTO can award the I-55 or I-57 number to the upgraded US 41 in Wisconsin, and Illinois is under no obligation whatsoever to erect new signage on existing interstates on its side of the border.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: InterstateNG on October 19, 2012, 10:15:44 AM
I don't understand the churlish desire to stick it to not one, but two transportation authorities in a different state.  Whatever gets you through the day I guess.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on October 19, 2012, 10:40:48 AM
I love it!  Imagine the lunacy of having a new interstate number that actually fits in the grid where it's supposed to. :crazy:  You're damn right, I-41!  Y'all can't see, but I just did a little dance to celebrate me getting exactly what I wanted for once in a new interstate.  I've been putting I-41 shields on my play maps since I was like 10 because I liked how it fit the grid and understood the supremacy of interstates over US routes.

It seems likely that WisDOT wouldn't have bothered submitting 41 unless they had some confidence that AASHTO would approve.  They told me at a PIM that they were going to talk with North Carolina about the 74/74 thing.  Objectively, I think WisDOT has a better case for I-41 than North Carolina ever did for I-74.  Because that interstate will never connect to the original, they effectively created a duplicate I-74 way out of the grid and on top of a same-numbered US highway.  I-41 is not a duplicate and it fits the grid easily.  And as I've said before, interstates trump US highways.  No US route should stand in the way of numbering interstates anywhere.

Now I fully expect 3di's in Appleton and Green Bay by the end of the decade.  I-441 in Appleton once the new Bridgeview Interchange is done and an even x43 in Green Bay for WI 172.  643 was a terrible option for the whole corridor, but to close the freeway loop in Green Bay; that would work just fine for me.

As for the signage situation; I like just going 'stealth' with US 41 and not signing it south of Abrams (er, I mean) Green Bay in Wisconsin (ala US 52/I-94 in Minnesota).  But whatever, I'll take the dual signage if that's what happens.
Highway 41/41; the highway so nice, they named it twice!
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on October 19, 2012, 11:32:43 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on October 19, 2012, 10:08:02 AM
Quote from: merrycilantro on October 19, 2012, 08:30:35 AM
Having just read this news, I must ask: Does anybody know how North Carolina got approved to run the I-74/US 74 concurrency? I assume WisDOT did its research and talked with them...but I'm just curious to know the circumstances that led AASHTO to approve it. I know it won't make a difference to people either way, but I'm sort of hoping for this to blow up. Scenario: AASHTO denies I-41 and somehow enforces the I-55 solution (I thought that was a dead topic but read it in the Appleton Post Crescent article), THAT'D be great to see AASHTO knock IDiOT down a peg or three. Or nine. Not sure where each is on the heirarchy of things but still, in my little pea brain I think that would be great.

AASHTO can't enforce jack crap. AASHTO can award the I-55 or I-57 number to the upgraded US 41 in Wisconsin, and Illinois is under no obligation whatsoever to erect new signage on existing interstates on its side of the border.

That's why I kind of do like how WisDOT is throwing the ball into AASHTO's court (see my above post).  If AASHTO doesn't like '41' for it, they can instead lay hands upon US 41 and proclaim it, for example, to be 'I-65', with the 'I-65' number to then follow I-90 and 94 through Chicagoland - with neither IDOT nor the Indiana Toll Road concessioner being under any obligation to change their respective signs.  It would be marked southward to the WI-IL state line and it would then just simply resume in Gary, IN.

EVENTUALLY . . . the gap in signage will be filled in.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: on_wisconsin on October 20, 2012, 12:51:41 AM
Quote from: InterstateNG on October 19, 2012, 10:15:44 AM
I don't understand the churlish desire to stick it to not one, but two transportation authorities in a different state.  Whatever gets you through the day I guess.
Wisconsin vs. Illinois is a BIG long standing rivalry in the midwest.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: InterstateNG on October 20, 2012, 02:54:35 PM
How provincial.
Title: I-65 Shield at Cline Avenue interchange
Post by: mukade on October 20, 2012, 10:19:15 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on October 19, 2012, 11:32:43 AM
That's why I kind of do like how WisDOT is throwing the ball into AASHTO's court (see my above post).  If AASHTO doesn't like '41' for it, they can instead lay hands upon US 41 and proclaim it, for example, to be 'I-65', with the 'I-65' number to then follow I-90 and 94 through Chicagoland - with neither IDOT nor the Indiana Toll Road concessioner being under any obligation to change their respective signs.  It would be marked southward to the WI-IL state line and it would then just simply resume in Gary, IN.

EVENTUALLY . . . the gap in signage will be filled in.

Mike

Although the following picture means nothing (esp. because it is eastbound only), it is interesting that INDOT added I-65 to the Cline Avenue sign at the Borman. I guess this was done this year.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhighwayexplorer.com%2FPhotos%2FTemp%2FSR912--I65.jpg&hash=ff945320f529a3974d280bba0febab2477f71299)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Brandon on October 20, 2012, 11:26:33 PM
Quote from: on_wisconsin on October 20, 2012, 12:51:41 AM
Quote from: InterstateNG on October 19, 2012, 10:15:44 AM
I don't understand the churlish desire to stick it to not one, but two transportation authorities in a different state.  Whatever gets you through the day I guess.
Wisconsin vs. Illinois is a BIG long standing rivalry in the midwest.

Cheesehead vs. FIB.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Revive 755 on October 21, 2012, 01:12:24 AM
Quote from: merrycilantro on October 19, 2012, 08:30:35 AM
Having just read this news, I must ask: Does anybody know how North Carolina got approved to run the I-74/US 74 concurrency? I assume WisDOT did its research and talked with them...but I'm just curious to know the circumstances that led AASHTO to approve it.

It seems I-74/US 74 in North Carolina grew out of federal legislation.  See http://www.interstate-guide.com/i-074.html (http://www.interstate-guide.com/i-074.html) and http://www.interstate-guide.com/i-074_nc.html (http://www.interstate-guide.com/i-074_nc.html)

Part of me hopes the I-41 number gets rejected by AAHSTO, as it does start a bad precedent.  For example, should the US 50 corridor get upgraded between I-44 and I-470 in Missouri to interstate standards, should it become I-50?  What is to keep other agencies in the future from not just using identical numbers of US routes that are upgraded?

Quote from: mukadeAlthough the following picture means nothing (esp. because it is eastbound only), it is interesting that INDOT added I-65 to the Cline Avenue sign at the Borman. I guess this was done this year.

Unless there is secret plotting going on between Indiana and Wisconsin, I'd lean towards that shield being an error since it is not on the next sign and it is on NB IN 912.  It's possible it could have been added for guidance without the "TO" but it seems like overkill.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mukade on October 21, 2012, 07:56:19 AM
Quote from: Revive 755 on October 21, 2012, 01:12:24 AM
Unless there is secret plotting going on between Indiana and Wisconsin, I'd lean towards that shield being an error since it is not on the next sign and it is on NB IN 912.  It's possible it could have been added for guidance without the "TO" but it seems like overkill.

I also have a difficult time envisioning an evil highway cabal in Indianapolis and Madison, but what it does show is that the Borman is a logical extension of I-65. More than half the traffic from I-65 NB funnels into the Borman and the AADT of I-65 south of the Borman rivals that of the Borman east of I-65 although truck traffic is significantly heavier on the Borman.

Still, this I-65 shield at Cline Avenue is a weird thing as the southbound sign also has the I-65 shield. It does not just get there. Regular "TO" I-65 signs erected on sign poles would be perfectly understandable at all entrances on the Borman. So why it is there remains a mystery to me.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: NE2 on October 21, 2012, 11:15:27 AM
It's just lazy implied 'to'. Nothing to see here.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on October 22, 2012, 07:59:34 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on October 21, 2012, 01:12:24 AM
Part of me hopes the I-41 number gets rejected by AAHSTO, as it does start a bad precedent.  For example, should the US 50 corridor get upgraded between I-44 and I-470 in Missouri to interstate standards, should it become I-50?  What is to keep other agencies in the future from not just using identical numbers of US routes that are upgraded?

How many other places would the I/US duplication prevent the violation of the interstate grid?  There are plenty of other numbers available to use in this Missouri example.  On US 41 you've got I-39 to your west and I-43 to your east.  Logically, 41 is the Interstate number to use.  This is a unique situation in Wisconsin that won't be found anywhere else in the country.  So I don't think one should be afraid of this as a precedent that will be repeated everywhere.  There are just these stupid, Congressional-numbered ones like I-74 and I-69 that cause trouble.

But I return to my biggest point that Interstates trump US routes.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Revive 755 on October 22, 2012, 10:00:07 PM
^ WisDOT seems intent on getting the new interstate number down to the Illinois border along I-94, which would have I-41 going east of I-43.

And if interstates really did trump US routes, there'd probably already be an I-50 or I-60 out there.  Kentucky, West Virginia, and Virginia could have easily gone with I-60 instead of I-64.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on October 23, 2012, 03:37:33 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on October 22, 2012, 07:59:34 PM... There are just these stupid, Congressional-numbered ones like I-74 and I-69 that cause trouble.
Least of not all I-99 :rofl:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on October 23, 2012, 10:40:26 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on October 22, 2012, 07:59:34 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on October 21, 2012, 01:12:24 AM
Part of me hopes the I-41 number gets rejected by AAHSTO, as it does start a bad precedent.  For example, should the US 50 corridor get upgraded between I-44 and I-470 in Missouri to interstate standards, should it become I-50?  What is to keep other agencies in the future from not just using identical numbers of US routes that are upgraded?

How many other places would the I/US duplication prevent the violation of the interstate grid?  There are plenty of other numbers available to use in this Missouri example.  On US 41 you've got I-39 to your west and I-43 to your east.  Logically, 41 is the Interstate number to use.  This is a unique situation in Wisconsin that won't be found anywhere else in the country.  So I don't think one should be afraid of this as a precedent that will be repeated everywhere.  There are just these stupid, Congressional-numbered ones like I-74 and I-69 that cause trouble.

But I return to my biggest point that Interstates trump US routes.


As you mention, this situation is unique to Wisconsin because not only does it fit the grid perfectly...except south of Milwaukee...but it is the same exact number of the USH.  Since pretty much everyone knows the highway as "Highway 41," all you are doing is replacing black and white signs with red, white and blue ones. 

An unsigned duplex between the Mitchell Interchange, or even better the IL border, and I-43 at Green Bay will confuse no one.  It will get roadgeeks fired up, but since that represents about 1% of the travelling public, they really shouldn't care about that opinion.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on October 23, 2012, 01:29:42 PM
There is one problem I have with the alternatives (http://www.dot.state.wi.us/projects/neregion/41/docs/ex-pim201205all.pdf) why in God's name does WisDOT want to sign I-41 all the way to the IL state line????  :pan: :banghead:

It should be signed to I-43 at the Hale and that's it!  And while they're at it, just lose I-894 because it will be redundant.

Of course WisDOT loves to sign useless concurrencies - just look at WIS 34 and WIS 13 at Wisconsin Rapids. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Big John on October 23, 2012, 01:34:53 PM
Quote from: Master son on October 23, 2012, 01:29:42 PM
There is one problem I have with the alternatives (http://www.dot.state.wi.us/projects/neregion/41/docs/ex-pim201205all.pdf) why in God's name does WisDOT want to sign I-41 all the way to the IL state line????  :pan: :banghead:

It should be signed to I-43 at the Hale and that's it!  And while they're at it, just lose I-894 because it will be redundant.

Of course WisDOT loves to sign useless concurrencies - just look at WIS 34 and WIS 13 at Wisconsin Rapids. :rolleyes:
One reason I see is to keep the exit numbers the same as they are, so WisDOT and adjoining businesses don't need to change the references.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on October 23, 2012, 03:05:32 PM
Quote from: Master son on October 23, 2012, 01:29:42 PM
There is one problem I have with the alternatives (http://www.dot.state.wi.us/projects/neregion/41/docs/ex-pim201205all.pdf) why in God's name does WisDOT want to sign I-41 all the way to the IL state line????  :pan: :banghead:

It should be signed to I-43 at the Hale and that's it!  And while they're at it, just lose I-894 because it will be redundant.

Of course WisDOT loves to sign useless concurrencies - just look at WIS 34 and WIS 13 at Wisconsin Rapids. :rolleyes:


You are right about the I-41 to the IL line.  The only reason I think they would do that is because they are going to keep US-41 as a unsigned concurrency. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Mdcastle on October 23, 2012, 04:10:56 PM
Speaking as an out-of-town motorist who drives in the area occasionally, I really wish they'd overlay a north south 2di on top of I-94 from Milwaukee to Chicago, or else break the rules and just sign it north and south. I'm driving in the area knowing I want to go north, and it's not immediately obvious whether I want "east" or "west".
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Jordanah1 on October 23, 2012, 06:09:00 PM
Quote from: Master son on October 23, 2012, 01:29:42 PM
There is one problem I have with the alternatives (http://www.dot.state.wi.us/projects/neregion/41/docs/ex-pim201205all.pdf) why in God's name does WisDOT want to sign I-41 all the way to the IL state line????  :pan: :banghead:

It should be signed to I-43 at the Hale and that's it!  And while they're at it, just lose I-894 because it will be redundant.

Of course WisDOT loves to sign useless concurrencies - just look at WIS 34 and WIS 13 at Wisconsin Rapids. :rolleyes:
it should be signed not to the hale but to the mitchel interchange, because it needs to be the "from here to green bay via fox cities" route, if you didnt sign it to the mitchel, signage at the mitchel would end up saying "I-43 to I-41" when it could just say "I-41". you have have a situation were signage would say something like this:
"I-43 south to I-41 north, to green bay" and "I-43 north to green bay, I-94 west"
it would be very confusing. unless i read something wrong here.
i would agree with losing I-894 though, and even going as far as routing I-94 from the mitchell interchange to the zoo interchange via the hale interchange, and signing I-43 by itself for the north-south part, and signing I-794 from the zoo interchange all the way through the marquette interchange.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Brandon on October 23, 2012, 09:27:07 PM
Quote from: Mdcastle on October 23, 2012, 04:10:56 PM
Speaking as an out-of-town motorist who drives in the area occasionally, I really wish they'd overlay a north south 2di on top of I-94 from Milwaukee to Chicago, or else break the rules and just sign it north and south. I'm driving in the area knowing I want to go north, and it's not immediately obvious whether I want "east" or "west".

ISTHA used to sign the Tri-State there as North-South (but East-West on the I-94 reassurance signs).

This concept of I-41 and US-41 got me thinking about the early proposals for the interstate system.  Why did we need to choose an entirely new system anyway, in an opposite direction from the US-system?  Might it not be better if the two systems were concurrent, and freeway stretches of US-routes were signed with the red-white-blue shield, i.e. US-41 and I-41?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on October 24, 2012, 10:20:32 AM
Quote from: Brandon on October 23, 2012, 09:27:07 PM
ISTHA used to sign the Tri-State there as North-South (but East-West on the I-94 reassurance signs).

This concept of I-41 and US-41 got me thinking about the early proposals for the interstate system.  Why did we need to choose an entirely new system anyway, in an opposite direction from the US-system?  Might it not be better if the two systems were concurrent, and freeway stretches of US-routes were signed with the red-white-blue shield, i.e. US-41 and I-41?


Because the overlays weren't always as "neat" as I-94 and US-41.

For instance, what do you do with I-90 between Chicago and the Mississippi River?  It is a freeway that is labelled US-20 from Chicago to Rockford...US-51 from Rockford to Portage....US-12 from Portage to Tomah...and then US-16 west to LaCrosse.  A single number serves that route so much better.

Furthermore you have a bunch of unnecessary renumbering of old US routes.  Such as US-20 in Illinois, etc. 

A new numbering system was simply much easier.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on October 24, 2012, 06:36:27 PM
Regarding 894, I was told at a PIM back in spring that WisDOT is not looking to get rid of it when the new interstate comes along for some reason.  So we just may have another pointless multiplex in Wisconsin.  Derp.

They do, however, plan on renumbering the exits on 894 when I-whatever gets signed.  That's good, but it makes leaving 894 around even more pointless.

Even if I-41 ends at the Mitchell (like it should) despite the route 'officially' extending to Illinois, they can always just keep the exit numbers/mileage.  They'll just start at about exit 28, looks like.  Besides, I doubt exits would be renumbered between the Mitchell Interchange and Illinois regardless of what happens with the number.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Alps on October 24, 2012, 06:48:47 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on October 24, 2012, 06:36:27 PM
Regarding 894, I was told at a PIM back in spring that WisDOT is not looking to get rid of it when the new interstate comes along for some reason.  So we just may have another pointless multiplex in Wisconsin.  Derp.

They do, however, plan on renumbering the exits on 894 when I-whatever gets signed.  That's good, but it makes leaving 894 around even more pointless.

Even if I-41 ends at the Mitchell (like it should) despite the route 'officially' extending to Illinois, they can always just keep the exit numbers/mileage.  They'll just start at about exit 28, looks like.  Besides, I doubt exits would be renumbered between the Mitchell Interchange and Illinois regardless of what happens with the number.
I-894 continues to sign an alternative way around the city to I-94, so it may have some use in that regard.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on October 24, 2012, 11:02:02 PM
Quote from: Steve on October 24, 2012, 06:48:47 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on October 24, 2012, 06:36:27 PM
Regarding 894, I was told at a PIM back in spring that WisDOT is not looking to get rid of it when the new interstate comes along for some reason.  So we just may have another pointless multiplex in Wisconsin.  Derp.

They do, however, plan on renumbering the exits on 894 when I-whatever gets signed.  That's good, but it makes leaving 894 around even more pointless.

Even if I-41 ends at the Mitchell (like it should) despite the route 'officially' extending to Illinois, they can always just keep the exit numbers/mileage.  They'll just start at about exit 28, looks like.  Besides, I doubt exits would be renumbered between the Mitchell Interchange and Illinois regardless of what happens with the number.
I-894 continues to sign an alternative way around the city to I-94, so it may have some use in that regard.

Nearly all OTR big-rig truck drivers use I-90 between Madison, WI and Chicagoland, so I-894 isn't even useful to them as a navigation number, except as a way to bypass central Milwaukee on their ways to and from the Fox Valley (US 41(I-xx) corridor - Fond du Lac/Oshkosh/Appleton) and for local/regional pick-ups and deliveries.  For car drivers, I-894 is just another part of the current numbering confusion that they encounter when driving the logical routing that will all become I-xx when going to and from the Fox Valley on the US 41(I-xx) corridor.

I agree, 'I-894' will be completely pointless.

:spin:

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Alex on October 25, 2012, 07:53:08 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on October 24, 2012, 11:02:02 PM

I agree, 'I-894' will be completely pointless.

:spin:

Mike

From a roadguy's perspective, its not pointless at all. Without it, I-94 does not have an even numbered child for every possible number and there are so few I-8xx's as it is. I would hate to see it go based upon that...
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on October 25, 2012, 08:10:45 AM
I'm going to have to disagree on that on Alex - I look at reality and see Wisconsin and its need to have pointless concurrencies.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: english si on October 25, 2012, 09:28:00 AM
Quote from: Master son on October 25, 2012, 08:10:45 AM
I'm going to have to disagree on that on Alex - I look at reality and see Wisconsin and its need to have pointless concurrencies.
the removal of one is one of the reasons why they want I-41 - so they don't have to sign US 41 south of Green Bay.

894 would have to stay for options that aren't I-41/I-47, otherwise the bypass of downtown doesn't have one number.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Jordanah1 on October 25, 2012, 01:53:01 PM
US41/WI21 interchange will be opening soon i would assume based on the ribbon cutting ceremony being scheduled for november 5th. i assume the interchange should open not long after. http://www.us41wisconsin.gov/flex/NewsWinnebago4121ribboncutting.978
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Alex on October 25, 2012, 02:25:26 PM
Quote from: Master son on October 25, 2012, 08:10:45 AM
I'm going to have to disagree on that on Alex - I look at reality and see Wisconsin and its need to have pointless concurrencies.

:-P Well I didn't like it when I-265 was snarfed by a relocation of I-65 in Nashville or when I-181 was killed off when I-26 was extended either. At least there are other I-265's, but there is no other I-181. IMO, losing I-894 will suck from a purely roadgeek standpoint, as will losing I-164 if I-69 results in its removal.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: NYYPhil777 on October 25, 2012, 02:50:08 PM
Quote from: Alex on October 25, 2012, 02:25:26 PM
Quote from: Master son on October 25, 2012, 08:10:45 AM
I'm going to have to disagree on that on Alex - I look at reality and see Wisconsin and its need to have pointless concurrencies.

:-P Well I didn't like it when I-265 was snarfed by a relocation of I-65 in Nashville or when I-181 was killed off when I-26 was extended either. At least there are other I-265's, but there is no other I-181. IMO, losing I-894 will suck from a purely roadgeek standpoint, as will losing I-164 if I-69 results in its removal.
I-130 and I-540 in Arkansas will also be lost when I-49 is completed.
To keep on the topic, I too would keep I-894 and not replace it with a I-41 or I-47.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on October 25, 2012, 03:30:34 PM
DOT release today about Oshkosh 41/21 opening Monday:

US 41/WIS 21 interchange in Oshkosh opening  Monday!

Interchange had been closed since March 19


(Green Bay) The Wisconsin Department of Transportation (WisDOT) Northeast Region office is announcing the US 41/WIS 21 interchange in Winnebago County will be open by 5 p.m. Monday, October 29, approximately three weeks ahead of schedule.  The interchange had been closed since Monday, March 19.

WisDOT NE Region Director Will Dorsey said, "I am extremely proud of our contractors, WisDOT Staff and consultant staff for opening this interchange well ahead of schedule.  We promised the community we would deliver this project in one construction season and that is just what we did."

Dorsey added, "The department would like to also thank the Oshkosh area residents, businesses and motorists for their patience during this aggressive construction schedule."

The roundabout on the west side of the interchange, including the ramps to and from US 41 southbound were already opened on Thursday, August 30 by 4 p.m.

The $54 million project includes rebuilding the WIS 21 interchange so that WIS 21 passes over US 41; construction of four roundabouts on WIS 21, at the US 41 ramp terminals and Washburn and Koeller streets intersections; and the reconstruction and expansion of US 41 between Witzel Avenue and US 45. 

Throughout the project, WisDOT maintain two lanes of traffic in both directions on US 41.

The work on US 41 and the Lake Butte des Morts causeway will be completed by the end of July 2013.   
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: agentsteel53 on October 25, 2012, 06:17:03 PM
Quote from: Alex on October 25, 2012, 02:25:26 PM

:-P Well I didn't like it when I-265 was snarfed by a relocation of I-65 in Nashville or when I-181 was killed off when I-26 was extended either. At least there are other I-265's, but there is no other I-181. IMO, losing I-894 will suck from a purely roadgeek standpoint, as will losing I-164 if I-69 results in its removal.

were there any state-named 265 or 181 shields left?  if not, then those roads are just about lost anyway.  same with I-164, for which I don't know any state-named shields.

are those state-named 894s in that one construction zone still around?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on October 25, 2012, 09:03:20 PM
I don't have a problem with some of Wisconsin's "pointless concurrencies."  Especially if they aid the driver in navigation.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on October 25, 2012, 11:04:13 PM
Quote from: Fox 11 News on October 25, 2012, 03:30:34 PM
DOT release today about Oshkosh 41/21 opening Monday:

US 41/WIS 21 interchange in Oshkosh opening  Monday!

Interchange had been closed since March 19


(Green Bay) The Wisconsin Department of Transportation (WisDOT) Northeast Region office is announcing the US 41/WIS 21 interchange in Winnebago County will be open by 5 p.m. Monday, October 29, approximately three weeks ahead of schedule.  The interchange had been closed since Monday, March 19.

WisDOT NE Region Director Will Dorsey said, "I am extremely proud of our contractors, WisDOT Staff and consultant staff for opening this interchange well ahead of schedule.  We promised the community we would deliver this project in one construction season and that is just what we did."

Dorsey added, "The department would like to also thank the Oshkosh area residents, businesses and motorists for their patience during this aggressive construction schedule."

The roundabout on the west side of the interchange, including the ramps to and from US 41 southbound were already opened on Thursday, August 30 by 4 p.m.

The $54 million project includes rebuilding the WIS 21 interchange so that WIS 21 passes over US 41; construction of four roundabouts on WIS 21, at the US 41 ramp terminals and Washburn and Koeller streets intersections; and the reconstruction and expansion of US 41 between Witzel Avenue and US 45. 

Throughout the project, WisDOT maintain two lanes of traffic in both directions on US 41.

The work on US 41 and the Lake Butte des Morts causeway will be completed by the end of July 2013.

Something for me to check out early next week!

:cool:

Also, Thanx for the updated completion date for the causeway, I was starting to wonder about that part and I was assuming mid to late fall, 2013.  All of the rest of Oshkosh-Neenah part of US 41(I-xx) should also be done within the next couple of months.

BTW, "end of July 2013" is right about EAA week.

On the Green Bay section, check out how massively wide US 41(I-xx) is becoming between Mason St (WI 54/WI 32 east) and the directional 'T' at Shawano Ave (WI 29/WI 32 west) in Green Bay!  It can be viewed on the WisDOT camera site at http://www.511wi.gov/Web/Cameras.aspx then scroll down to 'US 41 @ MASON ST'.  If the camera is pointing northward, the under-construction WI 29 directional 'T' interchange is in the background just past that rightward curve.

The Oshkosh-Neenah part can be seen if you go to the county drop-down list and choose 'Winnebago'.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hbelkins on October 26, 2012, 09:04:05 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on October 25, 2012, 06:17:03 PM
were there any state-named 265 or 181 shields left?  if not, then those roads are just about lost anyway.  same with I-164, for which I don't know any state-named shields.

I traveled I-181 often and never saw any state-named shields.

Seems like I may have seen at least one for I-164.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Jordanah1 on October 28, 2012, 07:45:46 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on October 25, 2012, 11:04:13 PM
Quote from: Fox 11 News on October 25, 2012, 03:30:34 PM
DOT release today about Oshkosh 41/21 opening Monday:

US 41/WIS 21 interchange in Oshkosh opening  Monday!

Interchange had been closed since March 19


(Green Bay) The Wisconsin Department of Transportation (WisDOT) Northeast Region office is announcing the US 41/WIS 21 interchange in Winnebago County will be open by 5 p.m. Monday, October 29, approximately three weeks ahead of schedule.  The interchange had been closed since Monday, March 19.

WisDOT NE Region Director Will Dorsey said, "I am extremely proud of our contractors, WisDOT Staff and consultant staff for opening this interchange well ahead of schedule.  We promised the community we would deliver this project in one construction season and that is just what we did."

Dorsey added, "The department would like to also thank the Oshkosh area residents, businesses and motorists for their patience during this aggressive construction schedule."

The roundabout on the west side of the interchange, including the ramps to and from US 41 southbound were already opened on Thursday, August 30 by 4 p.m.

The $54 million project includes rebuilding the WIS 21 interchange so that WIS 21 passes over US 41; construction of four roundabouts on WIS 21, at the US 41 ramp terminals and Washburn and Koeller streets intersections; and the reconstruction and expansion of US 41 between Witzel Avenue and US 45. 

Throughout the project, WisDOT maintain two lanes of traffic in both directions on US 41.

The work on US 41 and the Lake Butte des Morts causeway will be completed by the end of July 2013.

Something for me to check out early next week!

:cool:

Also, Thanx for the updated completion date for the causeway, I was starting to wonder about that part and I was assuming mid to late fall, 2013.  All of the rest of Oshkosh-Neenah part of US 41(I-xx) should also be done within the next couple of months.

BTW, "end of July 2013" is right about EAA week.

On the Green Bay section, check out how massively wide US 41(I-xx) is becoming between Mason St (WI 54/WI 32 east) and the directional 'T' at Shawano Ave (WI 29/WI 32 west) in Green Bay!  It can be viewed on the WisDOT camera site at http://www.511wi.gov/Web/Cameras.aspx then scroll down to 'US 41 @ MASON ST'.  If the camera is pointing northward, the under-construction WI 29 directional 'T' interchange is in the background just past that rightward curve.

The Oshkosh-Neenah part can be seen if you go to the county drop-down list and choose 'Winnebago'.

Mike
also the northbound lanes will be opening in early november, as work is nearly completed for the section between oshkosh and neenah.
http://www.us41wisconsin.gov/index.php?option=com_content&template=preview&share=true&id=185
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on October 28, 2012, 08:09:54 PM
Quote from: Jordanah1 on October 28, 2012, 07:45:46 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on October 25, 2012, 11:04:13 PM
Quote from: Fox 11 News on October 25, 2012, 03:30:34 PM
DOT release today about Oshkosh 41/21 opening Monday:

US 41/WIS 21 interchange in Oshkosh opening  Monday!

Interchange had been closed since March 19


(Green Bay) The Wisconsin Department of Transportation (WisDOT) Northeast Region office is announcing the US 41/WIS 21 interchange in Winnebago County will be open by 5 p.m. Monday, October 29, approximately three weeks ahead of schedule.  The interchange had been closed since Monday, March 19.

WisDOT NE Region Director Will Dorsey said, "I am extremely proud of our contractors, WisDOT Staff and consultant staff for opening this interchange well ahead of schedule.  We promised the community we would deliver this project in one construction season and that is just what we did."

Dorsey added, "The department would like to also thank the Oshkosh area residents, businesses and motorists for their patience during this aggressive construction schedule."

The roundabout on the west side of the interchange, including the ramps to and from US 41 southbound were already opened on Thursday, August 30 by 4 p.m.

The $54 million project includes rebuilding the WIS 21 interchange so that WIS 21 passes over US 41; construction of four roundabouts on WIS 21, at the US 41 ramp terminals and Washburn and Koeller streets intersections; and the reconstruction and expansion of US 41 between Witzel Avenue and US 45. 

Throughout the project, WisDOT maintain two lanes of traffic in both directions on US 41.

The work on US 41 and the Lake Butte des Morts causeway will be completed by the end of July 2013.

Something for me to check out early next week!

:cool:

Also, Thanx for the updated completion date for the causeway, I was starting to wonder about that part and I was assuming mid to late fall, 2013.  All of the rest of Oshkosh-Neenah part of US 41(I-xx) should also be done within the next couple of months.

BTW, "end of July 2013" is right about EAA week.

On the Green Bay section, check out how massively wide US 41(I-xx) is becoming between Mason St (WI 54/WI 32 east) and the directional 'T' at Shawano Ave (WI 29/WI 32 west) in Green Bay!  It can be viewed on the WisDOT camera site at http://www.511wi.gov/Web/Cameras.aspx then scroll down to 'US 41 @ MASON ST'.  If the camera is pointing northward, the under-construction WI 29 directional 'T' interchange is in the background just past that rightward curve.

The Oshkosh-Neenah part can be seen if you go to the county drop-down list and choose 'Winnebago'.

Mike
also the northbound lanes will be opening in early november, as work is nearly completed for the section between oshkosh and neenah.
http://www.us41wisconsin.gov/index.php?option=com_content&template=preview&share=true&id=185

I noticed the orange striped barrels that are already sitting out lined up and the striping that has already been done on the northbound side earlier today.  I wouldn't be surprised to see the northbound side north of US 45 open and traffic 'flipped' by next weekend.  The barrels are visible on the WisDOT traffic cams along that stretch.

:nod:

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on October 30, 2012, 11:51:42 AM
Story about 41/21 interchange re-opening Monday:
http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/fox_cities/highway-21-interchange-opens-ahead-of-schedule
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on November 03, 2012, 11:09:19 AM
WisDOT has opened the new northbound side of the upgraded highway between the north end of the Lake Butte des Morts causeway in Oshkosh and Neenah for two lanes, 'flipping' traffic to it sometime on Friday, 2012-11-02.

:clap:

I'll be checking it out later today.

:jumping:

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hobsini2 on November 03, 2012, 06:01:39 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on October 25, 2012, 06:17:03 PM
Quote from: Alex on October 25, 2012, 02:25:26 PM

:-P Well I didn't like it when I-265 was snarfed by a relocation of I-65 in Nashville or when I-181 was killed off when I-26 was extended either. At least there are other I-265's, but there is no other I-181. IMO, losing I-894 will suck from a purely roadgeek standpoint, as will losing I-164 if I-69 results in its removal.

were there any state-named 265 or 181 shields left?  if not, then those roads are just about lost anyway.  same with I-164, for which I don't know any state-named shields.

are those state-named 894s in that one construction zone still around?
While I would like to keep the 894 bypass number around, it would not be for historical purposes. I know this may seem pie in the sky but it has been done before where a proposed freeway that once was dead was revived years later. What I am talking about specifically with 894 extending it up to about Brown Deer Rd and then cut east/northeast to I-43 south of Port Washington to make a real bypass of Downtown Milwaukee for the north suburbs. If they built such a freeway, 894 could be a logical number as well as an even I-x43.  At least the exit numbers on 894 will reflect I-41 soon.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Jordanah1 on November 07, 2012, 11:06:06 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on November 03, 2012, 06:01:39 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on October 25, 2012, 06:17:03 PM
Quote from: Alex on October 25, 2012, 02:25:26 PM

:-P Well I didn't like it when I-265 was snarfed by a relocation of I-65 in Nashville or when I-181 was killed off when I-26 was extended either. At least there are other I-265's, but there is no other I-181. IMO, losing I-894 will suck from a purely roadgeek standpoint, as will losing I-164 if I-69 results in its removal.

were there any state-named 265 or 181 shields left?  if not, then those roads are just about lost anyway.  same with I-164, for which I don't know any state-named shields.

are those state-named 894s in that one construction zone still around?
While I would like to keep the 894 bypass number around, it would not be for historical purposes. I know this may seem pie in the sky but it has been done before where a proposed freeway that once was dead was revived years later. What I am talking about specifically with 894 extending it up to about Brown Deer Rd and then cut east/northeast to I-43 south of Port Washington to make a real bypass of Downtown Milwaukee for the north suburbs. If they built such a freeway, 894 could be a logical number as well as an even I-x43.  At least the exit numbers on 894 will reflect I-41 soon.
i would love to see it happen, but at this point, i think there are to many homes in the way(brown deer is increadibly wealthy, and all those doctors and lawyers arent gonna like eminent domain very much) i also think the public in general in the area would be against a project like that. thats why all the old plans got killed in the first place, though traffic is HORRIBLE now, when it wasnt as bad 20-30 years ago.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on November 08, 2012, 02:09:30 PM
Yeah, you'll never see new freeway construction anywhere in Milwaukee County ever again*.  Especially if it involves those highfalutin' suburbs in the northeast.  The opportunity to have a freeway in the Brown Deer Rd corridor passed decades ago.  Ozaukee County suburbanites are going to have to have a freeway between I-43 and US 41 in THEIR backyards if they want one.


*The proposed Lake Pkwy extension ain't no freeway.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on November 14, 2012, 02:43:36 PM
If you think about it, though, a freeway in Ozaukee County (if the residents would have it, or it doesn't get blocked by NIMBY's) wouldn't be such a bad thing. The same could be said for the Lake Country (Waukesha County)...the Belt Freeway was supposed to have gone that direction anyway. (we won't speak of the Bay Freeway, which now that sprawl is what it is, IMHO wouldn't have been a bad thing).

Although, if "Parkways" are the way to go, i guess going 45mph around a city rather than 55/65 is better than going 30-35 stop-and-go on City Streets. That in turn might persuade the NIMBYs to allow it.

In another related topic, they already have the ROW for the Richfield interchange that was supposed to go along with the Belt Freeway, they might as well patch a highway around open fields and weasel something in...
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: on_wisconsin on November 14, 2012, 11:30:34 PM
When will we know AASHTO's choice for the number? Before next week I take it, right?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on November 15, 2012, 08:10:13 AM
Checked the AASHTO website, they have some sort of get-together starting today, and had some dealings on the 12th...not sure if they talk business (as in select #s) then, or if it's done outside of that...but I myself am looking forward to finding out...though my gut tells me they will give Wisconsin the OK to duplex US41/I-41, but there really wouldn't be a point to extending the 41 designation down to the IL state line unless AASHTO nixed the 41 idea and instead went for I-47, because I doubt any other state would want to go through the rigamarole of getting okayed to duplex US41 and I-41. Now watch I'm completely off base and they go for a 3di.

As far as a North Milwaukee Bypass...well, as previously stated, I agree that the NIMBY's would never allow such a thing, but I guess, Brown Deer Rd (Hwy 100) would be enough of a "makeshift" bypass, as it's 4 lanes from I-43 to Hwy 41...well for that matter Hwy 100 in its entirety (but for a small portion in southwestern Milwaukee County) is 4 lanes, as if I'm not mistaken it was the original Milwaukee Bypass. Unfortunately, freeway-wise, Milwaukee is just one fragmented freeway after another...maybe someday they'll have (or allow) a decent network to be incorporated.

What I'd like to see is a Spur off 41 going south and connecting to I-43 in Waukesha County. That's a very fast-growing part of the Milwaukee/West Allis/Waukesha Metro Area, and IMO in need of a facility like such. Between Moorland and the City of Waukesha would be good, which would probably be in alignment of the original proposed Belt Freeway. Virtually impossible to build, I realize...but there again, a higher-speed parkway wouldn't be horrible either.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on November 15, 2012, 05:06:57 PM
WisDOT only submitted I-41 so it's either that or wait until spring.  Unless they can dole out numbers without them being formally requested?  Didn't North Carolina experience that with I-285 or something?  I think I remember reading they submitted 185, but AASHTO said no, it should be even because it connects interstates; so bam, I-285.  Or am I skipping the part where NC resubmitted?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: NE2 on November 15, 2012, 05:43:12 PM
AASHTO's site seems to be bitrotting: http://route.transportation.org/Pages/NextScheduledMeeting.aspx
I wonder how long it'll take them to upload their annoying in-PDF links for today's meeting.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: on_wisconsin on November 16, 2012, 12:53:05 AM
^
According to the agenda on this page the committee that deals with highway numbering did meet today.
http://aashtoannualmeeting.org/
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hobsini2 on November 18, 2012, 06:28:48 PM
I read what was in the Agenda and found a very interesting item. On Saturday, November 17 (yesterday), from 1 pm to 5 pm was this:

Bowling Tournament at AMF Bowling Alley–Buses depart from the Westin Hotel Lobby

I just find that amusing.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: english si on November 19, 2012, 06:32:15 AM
You could do that, and then turn up for the 6:30-7:30 meeting on highway numbering.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on November 19, 2012, 12:59:28 PM
AASHTO endorses Interstate 41:
http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/green_bay/interstate-41-a-step-closer-to-reality
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on November 19, 2012, 01:44:12 PM
Quote... and end at Russell Road in Illinois, where U.S. 41 and I-94 hookup just south of the border.

Say what?  That can't possibly be how this will be signed.  It makes no sense to have a new interstate multiplex on an existing one only to end at some service interchange.  I-41 should not be signed south of the Mitchell Interchange.

QuoteU.S. 41 runs from Copper Harbor, Michigan, to Miami, Florida. That designation will remain, including along this Wisconsin stretch after it becomes Interstate 41.
But will Wisconsin continue to sign it where it has been rendered moot by interstates?  WisDOT people told me they would be pulling US 41 off of city streets in Milwaukee to follow the Interstate corridor (94-894-45) through town.  That would make a "hidden" US 41 in Wisconsin more feasible.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Stratuscaster on November 19, 2012, 01:52:32 PM
Just like I-74 in NC/VA - it just magically stops and starts at the border.

And just like I-74 in NC, co-signed with US-74.

I hope the State of Wisconsin charges business that flock to the new I-41 something to pay for the $12M in signage.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on November 19, 2012, 02:19:53 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on November 19, 2012, 01:44:12 PM
Quote... and end at Russell Road in Illinois, where U.S. 41 and I-94 hookup just south of the border.

Say what?  That can't possibly be how this will be signed.  It makes no sense to have a new interstate multiplex on an existing one only to end at some service interchange.  I-41 should not be signed south of the Mitchell Interchange.


It makes sense since US-41 continues from there southward.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on November 19, 2012, 02:41:25 PM
WisDOT told us that US 41 will be concurrent to the Interstate; we asked about the GB/App/Osh/FDL corridor. Since Milwaukee isn't in our viewing area, we didn't ask the specifics of how the signage will be down Appleton Avenue, etc.

Judging by the map, the interstate will follow around the 45-894-94 path and I would guess (but did not verify) the in-city signage would continue. As I said, that wasn't our top concern.

As for Illinois, DOT says the signage will start "in that area" of Russell Road. It's a landmark interchange that people here are familiar with. Sounds as if if you are 41 North coming up, the I-41 signs will start where 41 hits 94. DOT was clear that I-41 will go to the border, which is what this shows:
http://www.dot.wi.gov/projects/neregion/41/docs/map-ex3.pdf
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: codyg1985 on November 19, 2012, 07:22:50 PM
If this is being co-signed with I-94 south of Milwaukee, what's the point of I-41 existing south of Milwaukee? Apologies if this has been discussed in this thread already.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Big John on November 19, 2012, 08:12:52 PM
Quote from: codyg1985 on November 19, 2012, 07:22:50 PM
If this is being co-signed with I-94 south of Milwaukee, what's the point of I-41 existing south of Milwaukee? Apologies if this has been discussed in this thread already.
What I could think of is route direction, as this segment is almost all directly north-south, but is signed as east-west for I-94.  Adding I-41 would give it an "equal" north-south designation to remove some confusion.

A second reason I could think of is to make it to the state line, so the exit numbers already on US 41 would not need to change.  But this could be more arbitrary as evidenced on I-69 in Indiana.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: codyg1985 on November 19, 2012, 09:04:39 PM
Quote from: Big John on November 19, 2012, 08:12:52 PM
Quote from: codyg1985 on November 19, 2012, 07:22:50 PM
If this is being co-signed with I-94 south of Milwaukee, what's the point of I-41 existing south of Milwaukee? Apologies if this has been discussed in this thread already.
What I could think of is route direction, as this segment is almost all directly north-south, but is signed as east-west for I-94.  Adding I-41 would give it an "equal" north-south designation to remove some confusion.

A second reason I could think of is to make it to the state line, so the exit numbers already on US 41 would not need to change.  But this could be more arbitrary as evidenced on I-69 in Indiana.

After reading through this thread for the past hour and a half, I can see that IDOT certainly has earned the nickname IDiOT in this case. I would have rather seen I-65 extended since it would continue in a northwest direction unlike I-55 which would make a rather sharp turn due north and then northwest. I-57 would have good, too. If IDOT wanted to take their ball and go home, then WisDOT could sign I-57 or I-65 anyway and then the gap would become more obvious.

Yes signs cost money, and it may involve totally replacing BGS since there isn't anymore room on the signs for an additional interstate shield. However, if a neighboring state wants that interstate to come within its borders and AASHTO/FHWA approve, then I don't see why another state can come in and block it. It isn't like the state will lose federal funding if they don't sign the route, anyway.

I think using I-41 is a complete waste. While it does make sense because it is currently US 41 and locals refer to it as Highway 41 already, seeing another intrastate interstate along with pointless concurrencies just gives me indigestion. If IDOT isn't going to cooperate to sign I-55, I-57, or I-65, what's the chance of them signing I-41 when there is no southern I-41 to connect it to?

Plus, does anyone else find it hilarious that WisDOT is seeking advice from NCDOT and their brilliant plan to have I-74 signed with US 74?  :banghead:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on November 19, 2012, 09:14:55 PM
I'm not thrilled with that number, either.  OTOH, I can see this being an impetus to reroute I-94 to replace I-294 around Chicagoland, with '41' to ultimately replace I-94 through the city and to end at I-80 in Lansing, IL, also removing US 41 from the city streets and LSD.  "[For US 41/follow I-41]".

Maybe we can also start some fantasy highway musings regarding US 41 through Indiana and on to I-24 at Hopkinsville, KY.

:meh:

Also, none of the BGSes on US 41 in Wisconsin have any space reserved for a second shield like there is on the BGSes on US 71 (future I-49) in Missouri, so I also very strongly suspect that WisDOT will be doing the hidden-number thing with US 41, swapping the US 41 shields for I-route ones.

Further, was there any word on the fate of I-894?

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Alps on November 19, 2012, 10:11:43 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on November 19, 2012, 09:14:55 PM
I'm not thrilled with that number, either.  OTOH, I can see this being an impetus to reroute I-94 to replace I-294 around Chicagoland, with '41' to ultimately replace I-94 through the city and to end at I-80 in Lansing, IL, also removing US 41 from the city streets and LSD.  "[For US 41/follow I-41]".

Maybe we can also start some fantasy highway musings regarding US 41 through Indiana and on to I-24 at Hopkinsville, KY.

:meh:

Also, none of the BGSes on US 41 in Wisconsin have any space reserved for a second shield like there is on the BGSes on US 71 (future I-49) in Missouri, so I also very strongly suspect that WisDOT will be doing the hidden-number thing with US 41, swapping the US 41 shields for I-route ones.

Further, was there any word on the fate of I-894?

Mike
I-894 remains intact.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Revive 755 on November 19, 2012, 10:15:56 PM
Quote from: Stratuscaster on November 19, 2012, 01:52:32 PM
Just like I-74 in NC/VA - it just magically stops and starts at the border.

And just like I-74 in NC, co-signed with US-74.

Except I-74 in NC breaks away from US 74 for a good distance before ending at the border.  And I-74 in NC was planned to go beyond the border at one point, unlike the Wisconsin I-41.  I'd put better odds on I-74 making it into West Virginia before I-41 would go into Illinois.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hbelkins on November 19, 2012, 10:30:12 PM
Quote from: codyg1985 on November 19, 2012, 09:04:39 PM
After reading through this thread for the past hour and a half, I can see that IDOT certainly has earned the nickname IDiOT in this case. I would have rather seen I-65 extended since it would continue in a northwest direction unlike I-55 which would make a rather sharp turn due north and then northwest. I-57 would have good, too. If IDOT wanted to take their ball and go home, then WisDOT could sign I-57 or I-65 anyway and then the gap would become more obvious.

Yes signs cost money, and it may involve totally replacing BGS since there isn't anymore room on the signs for an additional interstate shield. However, if a neighboring state wants that interstate to come within its borders and AASHTO/FHWA approve, then I don't see why another state can come in and block it. It isn't like the state will lose federal funding if they don't sign the route, anyway.

I think using I-41 is a complete waste. While it does make sense because it is currently US 41 and locals refer to it as Highway 41 already, seeing another intrastate interstate along with pointless concurrencies just gives me indigestion. If IDOT isn't going to cooperate to sign I-55, I-57, or I-65, what's the chance of them signing I-41 when there is no southern I-41 to connect it to?

There is no benefit to Illinois to sign any other interstate, be it 41 or 55 or 57 or 65, concurrently with I-94, and there's the cost of erecting the new signs. I don't think that's IDiOTic of them. I think that's rather prudent and being good stewards of taxpayer money.

If the new US 41 has to be an interstate, a 3di would work perfectly fine, protestations to the contrary by some here notwithstanding. Demanding that Illinois sign I-41 or any interstate extension to link to Wisconsin is about as idiotic as demanding that Virginia and West Virginia sign I-74 along I-77 all the way from the NC state line up to the north end of the tunnel at Bluefield.

FHWA gets the final say on an Interstate, so maybe they'll inject a little sanity and reason into this.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mukade on November 19, 2012, 11:15:05 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on November 19, 2012, 10:30:12 PM
There is no benefit to Illinois to sign any other interstate, be it 41 or 55 or 57 or 65, concurrently with I-94, and there's the cost of erecting the new signs. I don't think that's IDiOTic of them. I think that's rather prudent and being good stewards of taxpayer money.

If the new US 41 has to be an interstate, a 3di would work perfectly fine, protestations to the contrary by some here notwithstanding. Demanding that Illinois sign I-41 or any interstate extension to link to Wisconsin is about as idiotic as demanding that Virginia and West Virginia sign I-74 along I-77 all the way from the NC state line up to the north end of the tunnel at Bluefield.

FHWA gets the final say on an Interstate, so maybe they'll inject a little sanity and reason into this.

Was there benefit to change Western Kentucky Parkway signs to I-69 ones? Why add the I-69 designation to US 59 in Houston? It costs money and made maps wrong, but sometimes you have to make changes to move forward to fix past errors or to improve situations.

While I can buy Illinois not signing anything now, properly defining a corridor (for example, to I-65, I-57, or I-55) should be perfectly fine. That is not a whole lot different than the piecemeal approach to signing I-69 - it stops and starts several times. BTW, Illinois is the state that signed Illinois 110 across the state and replaced a large number of good BGSs just to have Clearview signs. Prudent and good stewards?

I don't think many agree a 3di is a good idea.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: kharvey10 on November 20, 2012, 02:28:42 AM
I haven't seen TN put up any I-69 signs even though their neighbors in KY and MS have done so and they have approval to do so.

The final say of all this stuff is FHWA, which could tell IDOT and WisDOT "screw you" and set either 55 (unlikely given the mess it is in Chicagoland), 57 (more likely, that whole interstate is loaded with truck traffic from start to end), or 65 (not as likely given it would throw a third state into the mess).  I-74 in NC was set by federal law not by FHWA otherwise it would likely been a different number itself.  I doubt FHWA is going to approve the AASTHO recommendation, I have heard stories of the FHWA not going with the AASTHO at times (I-72 vs I-172 back in the mid 90s is a good example).  IDOT doesn't have to sign the changes that the FHWA approves if they don't want to.  Its just Illinois and Wisconsin has a long standing rivalry with just about everything.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: codyg1985 on November 20, 2012, 07:16:02 AM
One far-fetched scenario would be to build an outer bypass of Chicago west of the western suburbs, using the proposed Illiana Expressway, and then have it curve back east to end at I-94 at Kenosha, WI or Waukegan, IL, and number the bypass I-65. That might be a way to get IDOT or IESTA to warm up to the concept.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: InterstateNG on November 20, 2012, 10:14:24 AM
I'm just glad that when final approval comes this interminable fucking argument about what number someone wants it to be will hopefully cease.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hbelkins on November 20, 2012, 11:28:39 AM
Quote from: mukade on November 19, 2012, 11:15:05 PM
Was there benefit to change Western Kentucky Parkway signs to I-69 ones?

Yes, because it gets that vaunted red/white/blue Interstate shield on the route. An Interstate is an Interstate, whether it's I-xx or I-yxx.

Although I think there should have been a new-terrain route built between Paducah and Henderson for I-69, paralleling US 60. What Kentucky did was the functional equivalent of signing I-69 along US 41 and I-70.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on November 20, 2012, 11:52:38 AM
Quote from: InterstateNG on November 20, 2012, 10:14:24 AM
I'm just glad that when final approval comes this interminable fucking argument about what number someone wants it to be will hopefully cease.

I admire your optimism.

Quote from: mgk920 on November 19, 2012, 09:14:55 PM
OTOH, I can see this being an impetus to reroute I-94 to replace I-294 around Chicagoland, with '41' to ultimately replace I-94 through the city and to end at I-80 in Lansing, IL, also removing US 41 from the city streets and LSD.  "[For US 41/follow I-41]".

At least that's something that can be done with the pointless concurrency.

Personally, I find 41 to be the perfect number.  In the messed up version of the grid we have in this part of the continent, it fit's beautifully.  39 - 41 - 43; boom no problem.  Of course in my mind, I-41 would start at the Mitchell Interchange and end in Abrams.  Since they messed up in the past and didn't originally design I-55 to continue north to Milwaukee and Green Bay, I-41 is the most logical solution for this interstate.

The concurrency is silly.  I-94 has functioned just fine as a "north-south" east-west highway for decades.  The only reason for it was to possibly extend a Chicagoland interstate, but since that's not happening, it should be dropped from route.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Jordanah1 on November 20, 2012, 09:23:31 PM
whos up for renumbering the whole damn country? we can solve virtually all the problems with the grid! it will cost alot of money, but its not like the federal government doesnt waste enough of our tax dollars on stupid shit anyways *cough*cough*solyndra*cough*. hell if they simply stopped funding planned parenthood, there might be enough to renumber the whole contry.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: kphoger on November 20, 2012, 09:39:53 PM
No.  Illinois would still block it.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: NE2 on November 20, 2012, 10:06:46 PM
Jordanah? Your talking points have grown mold...
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Revive 755 on November 28, 2012, 11:17:43 PM
The AASHTO SCOH meeting minutes brought up in the I-69 in TX thread seems to indicate that I-41 will be entering Illinois:
http://route.transportation.org/Documents/SCOH%20Report%2011-16-2012.pdf (http://route.transportation.org/Documents/SCOH%20Report%2011-16-2012.pdf) (Page 3/7, top item)

Though there are these interesting two sentences:
Quote from:  AASHTONo letter included showing the member department has contacted FHWA. AASHTO to prepare information letter to FHWA headquarters and copying Illinois.

So Illinois is getting overridden with I-41?  If this is true, why not override and use I-55?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on November 29, 2012, 12:38:00 AM
I wouldn't call 0.9 miles "overridden".

On another subject, "Zoon" interchange?   :-D

We also will be saying goodbye to US-41 over city streets in Milwaukee.  It's the end of an era in these parts!
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on November 29, 2012, 09:47:57 AM
Quote from: Revive 755 on November 28, 2012, 11:17:43 PM
The AASHTO SCOH meeting minutes brought up in the I-69 in TX thread seems to indicate that I-41 will be entering Illinois:
http://route.transportation.org/Documents/SCOH%20Report%2011-16-2012.pdf (http://route.transportation.org/Documents/SCOH%20Report%2011-16-2012.pdf) (Page 3/7, top item)

Though there are these interesting two sentences:
Quote from:  AASHTONo letter included showing the member department has contacted FHWA. AASHTO to prepare information letter to FHWA headquarters and copying Illinois.

So Illinois is getting overridden with I-41?  If this is true, why not override and use I-55?


I doubt Illinois even signs it.

Will Wisconsin continue to sign US-41 where it duplexes with I-41?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: gbgoose on November 29, 2012, 10:17:20 AM
I'd guess you'd see I-41 and US-41 together on the freeway.

Illinois won't use I-41 except at the Russell Rd. exit near the state line.  This would make too much sense...have it travel along 94 in IL, and replace 294 to I-80.  :-P
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on November 29, 2012, 11:21:24 AM
US 41 should have been removed from Milwaukee city streets and placed on that freeway routing decades ago - that has long been one of my top weaknesses in the entire state highway system!

That said, there is *no* room for an additional shield on any of the signs along US 41(I-xx).  None. Zip.  Nada.  Even on the new overhead BGSes that were installed here in the Appleton to Oshkosh area within the past year.

My best bet, then, is that I-route shields will be replacing US 41 shields along the way.  "[For US 41/follow I-xx]", like in Minnesota.  It will be interesting to see how WisDOT does that along I-894 and US 45 in Milwaukee County.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: kharvey10 on November 30, 2012, 01:59:39 PM
Illinois isn't obligated to even sign it.  The FHWA isn't obligated to go with AASTHO either.  The FHWA could make them go with 55 or 57,
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Alps on November 30, 2012, 06:13:30 PM
Quote from: kharvey10 on November 30, 2012, 01:59:39 PM
Illinois isn't obligated to even sign it.  The FHWA isn't obligated to go with AASTHO either.  The FHWA could make them go with 55 or 57,
The hope remains.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Molandfreak on December 02, 2012, 01:51:31 PM
Quote
i would love to see it happen, but at this point, i think there are to many homes in the way(brown deer is increadibly wealthy, and all those doctors and lawyers arent gonna like eminent domain very much) i also think the public in general in the area would be against a project like that. thats why all the old plans got killed in the first place, though traffic is HORRIBLE now, when it wasnt as bad 20-30 years ago.

How about a Mequon Rd. or a County Line Rd. freeway?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on December 02, 2012, 06:17:44 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on December 02, 2012, 01:51:31 PM
Quote
i would love to see it happen, but at this point, i think there are to many homes in the way(brown deer is increadibly wealthy, and all those doctors and lawyers arent gonna like eminent domain very much) i also think the public in general in the area would be against a project like that. thats why all the old plans got killed in the first place, though traffic is HORRIBLE now, when it wasnt as bad 20-30 years ago.

How about a Mequon Rd. or a County Line Rd. freeway?



You'd have a better chance breeding unicorns that sh*t gold bricks.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Molandfreak on December 02, 2012, 11:06:11 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 02, 2012, 06:17:44 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on December 02, 2012, 01:51:31 PM
Quote
i would love to see it happen, but at this point, i think there are to many homes in the way(brown deer is increadibly wealthy, and all those doctors and lawyers arent gonna like eminent domain very much) i also think the public in general in the area would be against a project like that. thats why all the old plans got killed in the first place, though traffic is HORRIBLE now, when it wasnt as bad 20-30 years ago.

How about a Mequon Rd. or a County Line Rd. freeway?



You'd have a better chance breeding unicorns that sh*t gold bricks.

That's a shame.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on December 03, 2012, 01:39:15 AM
Quote from: Molandfreak on December 02, 2012, 11:06:11 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 02, 2012, 06:17:44 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on December 02, 2012, 01:51:31 PM
Quote
i would love to see it happen, but at this point, i think there are to many homes in the way(brown deer is increadibly wealthy, and all those doctors and lawyers arent gonna like eminent domain very much) i also think the public in general in the area would be against a project like that. thats why all the old plans got killed in the first place, though traffic is HORRIBLE now, when it wasnt as bad 20-30 years ago.

How about a Mequon Rd. or a County Line Rd. freeway?



You'd have a better chance breeding unicorns that sh*t gold bricks.

That's a shame.

That comes with the territory - The Milwaukee suburb of the City of Mequon has one of the highest average AGI's in the entire State of Wisconsin.

:-o

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on December 03, 2012, 01:49:31 AM
I've been noticing over the past couple of months that WisDOT is installing bases for light fixtures between the median barrier walls on US 41(I-xx) from at least the Lake Butte des Morts Causeway in Oshkosh (which has streetlights) northwards to the Breezewood Ln/Bell St interchange in Neenah (which also has streetlights).  I have no word on any immediate plans for lighting on the section of the highway between those parts, though.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: DaBigE on December 03, 2012, 02:39:57 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on December 03, 2012, 01:49:31 AM
I've been noticing over the past couple of months that WisDOT is installing bases for light fixtures between the median barrier walls on US 41(I-xx) from at least the Lake Butte des Morts Causeway in Oshkosh (which has streetlights) northwards to the Breezewood Ln/Bell St interchange in Neenah (which also has streetlights).  I have no word on any immediate plans for lighting on the section of the highway between those parts, though.

Mike

IIRC, WisDOT did a similar thing 10-15 years ago, along a stretch of US 41/45 in the Germantown/Menomonee Falls area (south of County Line Rd). First, they filled/paved the median and installed a continuous Jersey-barrier, complete with cut-outs/bases for median lighting. The lights, however, didn't get installed until several years later.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on December 04, 2012, 06:32:54 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on December 03, 2012, 01:49:31 AM
I've been noticing over the past couple of months that WisDOT is installing bases for light fixtures between the median barrier walls on US 41(I-xx) from at least the Lake Butte des Morts Causeway in Oshkosh (which has streetlights) northwards to the Breezewood Ln/Bell St interchange in Neenah (which also has streetlights).  I have no word on any immediate plans for lighting on the section of the highway between those parts, though.

Mike
Check out 41 in Green Bay around Mason St.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Jordanah1 on December 06, 2012, 05:45:46 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on December 03, 2012, 01:49:31 AM
I've been noticing over the past couple of months that WisDOT is installing bases for light fixtures between the median barrier walls on US 41(I-xx) from at least the Lake Butte des Morts Causeway in Oshkosh (which has streetlights) northwards to the Breezewood Ln/Bell St interchange in Neenah (which also has streetlights).  I have no word on any immediate plans for lighting on the section of the highway between those parts, though.

Mike
they installed them along the entire length from neenah to south of oshkosh, you can see them as you drive over overpasses and such. i believe they also exist around the US41/US10 interchange aswell, though im not sure if they extend north or south of there. you can see them in a few places, they look like they are in too rough of shape to be used though, and for all i know they are old sign bases and not light pole bases at all.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Revive 755 on December 06, 2012, 07:27:17 PM
Rumor through an IDOT employee has it IDOT will be signing I-41 for the short overlap with I-94, though there is the off chance there could be a push to extend the I-41 designation in the future.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on December 06, 2012, 11:48:01 PM
Quote from: Jordanah1 on December 06, 2012, 05:45:46 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on December 03, 2012, 01:49:31 AM
I've been noticing over the past couple of months that WisDOT is installing bases for light fixtures between the median barrier walls on US 41(I-xx) from at least the Lake Butte des Morts Causeway in Oshkosh (which has streetlights) northwards to the Breezewood Ln/Bell St interchange in Neenah (which also has streetlights).  I have no word on any immediate plans for lighting on the section of the highway between those parts, though.

Mike
they installed them along the entire length from neenah to south of oshkosh, you can see them as you drive over overpasses and such. i believe they also exist around the US41/US10 interchange aswell, though im not sure if they extend north or south of there. you can see them in a few places, they look like they are in too rough of shape to be used though, and for all i know they are old sign bases and not light pole bases at all.

WisDOT changed the US 41 signage at the Bridgeview Interchange (US 10/WI 441) around a bit a couple of years ago, removing all of the overhead sign bridges.  There were never any light pole bases installed on US 41 there.  Keep in mind that US 41 there was upgraded to six lanes in 1991-1992.  WisDOT did install light mounting racks on the overhead BGSes by the street interchanges in that project (WI 15/Northland Ave to Breezewood Ln/Bell St), but the lights were never installed and the racks were removed from most of them during routine sign upgrades since.

The US 10/WI 441 bridge has lightpole bases that were installed when the bridge was built in 1975, but they are now unusable due to decades of salt corrosion.  They are likely to never be used, anyways, due to proposed/pending US 10/WI 441 freeway six-lane upgrades that will remove the median wall on the bridge.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: on_wisconsin on December 07, 2012, 01:51:50 AM
Quote from: Revive 755 on December 06, 2012, 07:27:17 PM
Rumor through an IDOT employee has it IDOT will be signing I-41 for the short overlap with I-94, though there is the off chance there could be a push to extend the I-41 designation in the future.
*on_wisconsin is very happy with this revelation. :nod:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mukade on December 07, 2012, 06:12:23 AM
Quote from: Revive 755 on December 06, 2012, 07:27:17 PM
Rumor through an IDOT employee has it IDOT will be signing I-41 for the short overlap with I-94, though there is the off chance there could be a push to extend the I-41 designation in the future.

If that is true, then why didn't they go with an I-65, I-57, or I-55 designation? If nothing has to immediately be signed through Chicago (and it definitely does not), it makes no sense at all to use a new number.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on December 07, 2012, 09:24:00 AM
Quote from: mukade on December 07, 2012, 06:12:23 AM
Quote from: Revive 755 on December 06, 2012, 07:27:17 PM
Rumor through an IDOT employee has it IDOT will be signing I-41 for the short overlap with I-94, though there is the off chance there could be a push to extend the I-41 designation in the future.

If that is true, then why didn't they go with an I-65, I-57, or I-55 designation? If nothing has to immediately be signed through Chicago (and it definitely does not), it makes no sense at all to use a new number.


Exactly.  First, where would you extend it?  Second, *if* you extend it, what do you do with US-41?

This is exactly why 55 or 57 would have been better.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on December 07, 2012, 10:23:26 AM
I guess the only thing that sorta makes sense is routing it down I-294 to end at I-80...but I agree with everyone that 55/57/65 should have been used if IDOT will truly sign the highway as WI will be...but then, won't they have to go thru the same rigamarole as Wisconsin did/does to get I-41 and US 41 in the same state? Who here thinks they'd actually do that...honestly...

FHWA, talk some sense here and say "No I-41, you make it (example) 55 or you get nothing." *i'm in a "gently stir the pot type of mood today...*
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on December 07, 2012, 12:12:26 PM
Quote from: merrycilantro on December 07, 2012, 10:23:26 AM
I guess the only thing that sorta makes sense is routing it down I-294 to end at I-80...but I agree with everyone that 55/57/65 should have been used if IDOT will truly sign the highway as WI will be...but then, won't they have to go thru the same rigamarole as Wisconsin did/does to get I-41 and US 41 in the same state? Who here thinks they'd actually do that...honestly...

FHWA, talk some sense here and say "No I-41, you make it (example) 55 or you get nothing." *i'm in a "gently stir the pot type of mood today...*

I'm on board with you here.  As I have mentioned many times before, '55', '57' or '65' all make much better sense here, with my fav being '65'.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on December 07, 2012, 02:27:27 PM
We can easily leave it to the FHWA to decide.  What's the record of them giving in to wishes? (I-99 anyone? :pan: )
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: kharvey10 on December 08, 2012, 03:21:30 AM
FHWA didn't give in to IDOT back in the mid 90s with at least one of their interstates (even went against AASTHO for that matter).  I don't believe that IDOT or WisDOT is getting their way with this one, the FHWA should have enough common sense to go their own way and tell both states my way or forget it.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: on_wisconsin on December 08, 2012, 03:34:53 AM
The (endless) numbering debate aside, how is the actual construction going? Is dirt being turned on the WIS-29 and I-43 interchanges yet?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: rickmastfan67 on December 08, 2012, 04:09:00 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on December 07, 2012, 09:24:00 AM
Quote from: mukade on December 07, 2012, 06:12:23 AM
Quote from: Revive 755 on December 06, 2012, 07:27:17 PM
Rumor through an IDOT employee has it IDOT will be signing I-41 for the short overlap with I-94, though there is the off chance there could be a push to extend the I-41 designation in the future.

If that is true, then why didn't they go with an I-65, I-57, or I-55 designation? If nothing has to immediately be signed through Chicago (and it definitely does not), it makes no sense at all to use a new number.


Exactly.  First, where would you extend it?

Have it replace I-294 in it's entirety.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on December 08, 2012, 09:54:43 AM
Quote from: on_wisconsin on December 08, 2012, 03:34:53 AM
The (endless) numbering debate aside, how is the actual construction going? Is dirt being turned on the WIS-29 and I-43 interchanges yet?

US 41(I-xx)/WI 29 (Shawano Interchange) - *BIG TIME*

See the traffic cam images at http://www.511wi.gov/Web/Cameras.aspx?countyfilter=Brown&page=1 for what it looks like.

I-43/US 41(I-xx)/141 (Howard Interchange) - not yet, it's a separate project.

Upgrades in the Oshkosh to Neenah area are also well under way and some sections are complete.

See: http://www.511wi.gov/Web/Cameras.aspx?countyfilter=Winnebago&page=1

---------

As for the numbering debate, keep in mind that unlike with, for example, I-69 and I-99, no number was specified in the highway bill for US 41's 'promotion'.  Congress left this one for AASHTO and the FHWA to decide.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hbelkins on December 13, 2012, 10:05:23 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on December 07, 2012, 02:27:27 PM
We can easily leave it to the FHWA to decide.  What's the record of them giving in to wishes? (I-99 anyone? :pan: )

FHWA had no choice with I-99. That was written into legislation passed by Congress.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on December 14, 2012, 07:11:35 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on December 13, 2012, 10:05:23 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on December 07, 2012, 02:27:27 PM
We can easily leave it to the FHWA to decide.  What's the record of them giving in to wishes? (I-99 anyone? :pan: )

FHWA had no choice with I-99. That was written into legislation passed by Congress.
Then let us hope, they don't do it here.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Molandfreak on December 23, 2012, 11:56:30 PM
Any word yet of when the FHWA is going to make up their mind? :hmmm:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Rover_0 on December 24, 2012, 04:42:37 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on December 23, 2012, 11:56:30 PM
Any word yet of when the FHWA is going to make up their mind? :hmmm:

It should be made up already. I thought the number was going to be I-41.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on December 24, 2012, 11:19:29 PM
Quote from: Rover_0 on December 24, 2012, 04:42:37 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on December 23, 2012, 11:56:30 PM
Any word yet of when the FHWA is going to make up their mind? :hmmm:

It should be made up already. I thought the number was going to be I-41.

That was AASHTO, not the FHWA.  IIRC, it is the FHWA who holds the trademark rights to the snazzy shield design.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: bulldog1979 on December 27, 2012, 06:25:23 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on December 24, 2012, 11:19:29 PM
IIRC, it is the FHWA who holds the trademark rights to the snazzy shield design.

Nope, AASHTO holds the trademark. Trademark 0835635 was filed on February 21, 1966, and registered by the USPTO on September 19, 1967, to "American Association of State Highway Officials Unincorporated Association D.C. 917 National Press Bldg. Washington D.C. 20004" and last listed as owned by "American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials, Inc. Corporation Assignee Of D.C. Suite 249 444 N. Capitol St., N.W. Washington D.C. 20001"
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on December 28, 2012, 01:32:24 PM
The FHA told the state that it's OK with I-41, but final federal approval isn't done because an environmental report is still needed. And, the state wants Congress to grandfather in the weight limits before it will go forward with the interstate designation.

http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/green_bay/feds-ok-interstate-41-number
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on December 28, 2012, 01:37:56 PM
Quote from: Fox 11 News on December 28, 2012, 01:32:24 PM
The FHA told the state that it's OK with I-41, but final federal approval isn't done because an environmental report is still needed. And, the state wants Congress to grandfather in the weight limits before it will go forward with the interstate designation.

http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/green_bay/feds-ok-interstate-41-number
NOOOOO!!!!!!
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on December 28, 2012, 02:46:17 PM
Quote from: Fox 11 News on December 28, 2012, 01:32:24 PM
The FHA told the state that it's OK with I-41, but final federal approval isn't done because an environmental report is still needed.
http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/green_bay/feds-ok-interstate-41-number

Hooray!!!
A rare victory for the interstate grid.

Quote from: Fox 11 News on December 28, 2012, 01:32:24 PM
And, the state wants Congress to grandfather in the weight limits before it will go forward with the interstate designation.
Congress? Aw man, that could take a while.  And all for a couple of logging trucks that are only going to be using a fraction of the corridor.  While the industry that needs those logs is declining under pressure of foreign competition.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on December 28, 2012, 04:01:30 PM
The next question is "Will WisDOT do what MNDOT did with several of the US highways that were supplanted by interstates within their jurisdiction (ie, US 10, US 12, US 52, etc) and do the 'FOR US (xx)/FOLLOW I-(xx)' thing with US 41 over that distance?", this to keep things simple.

:hmmm:

As for logging trucks, I'm been seeing a LOT of pulpwood, both logs and chips, passing through downtown Appleton on CN's facilities in recent years and it seems like that traffic volume is increasing.  Perhaps that could be even more business for them.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on December 30, 2012, 12:07:23 AM
I drove up to Neenah today and was disappointed to see that there weren't any "Future I-41" signs up yet!!  :-D

So with moving US-41 to follow I-94 -> I-894 -> US-45 in Milwaukee, will we finally see WI-341 posted?  I would think they'd want to number the Stadium Freeway stub unless they plan on turning it over to the county or something.  I guess they could bring the WI-175 designation all the way down as well...
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on December 30, 2012, 01:27:49 AM
Quote from: GeekJedi on December 30, 2012, 12:07:23 AM
I drove up to Neenah today and was disappointed to see that there weren't any "Future I-41" signs up yet!!  :-D

So with moving US-41 to follow I-94 -> I-894 -> US-45 in Milwaukee, will we finally see WI-341 posted?  I would think they'd want to number the Stadium Freeway stub unless they plan on turning it over to the county or something.  I guess they could bring the WI-175 designation all the way down as well...

I've often suggested extending WI 175 southward to replace US 41 on the streets to WisDOT.  Maybe it can be extended all the way down Miller Park Way and 43rd St back to I(41)/43/894 at Loomis Rd.

:nod:

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hobsini2 on December 30, 2012, 06:24:33 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on December 30, 2012, 01:27:49 AM
Quote from: GeekJedi on December 30, 2012, 12:07:23 AM
I drove up to Neenah today and was disappointed to see that there weren't any "Future I-41" signs up yet!!  :-D

So with moving US-41 to follow I-94 -> I-894 -> US-45 in Milwaukee, will we finally see WI-341 posted?  I would think they'd want to number the Stadium Freeway stub unless they plan on turning it over to the county or something.  I guess they could bring the WI-175 designation all the way down as well...

I've often suggested extending WI 175 southward to replace US 41 on the streets to WisDOT.  Maybe it can be extended all the way down Miller Park Way and 43rd St back to I(41)/43/894 at Loomis Rd.

:nod:

Mike

Or if WisDOT is feeling REALLY generous, extend Wis 175 along the entire US 41 city street route from 10 years ago to include 27th St (now Wis 241) to eliminate another number. Just a thought.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on December 30, 2012, 11:33:49 AM
Quote from: hobsini2 on December 30, 2012, 06:24:33 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on December 30, 2012, 01:27:49 AM
Quote from: GeekJedi on December 30, 2012, 12:07:23 AM
I drove up to Neenah today and was disappointed to see that there weren't any "Future I-41" signs up yet!!  :-D

So with moving US-41 to follow I-94 -> I-894 -> US-45 in Milwaukee, will we finally see WI-341 posted?  I would think they'd want to number the Stadium Freeway stub unless they plan on turning it over to the county or something.  I guess they could bring the WI-175 designation all the way down as well...

I've often suggested extending WI 175 southward to replace US 41 on the streets to WisDOT.  Maybe it can be extended all the way down Miller Park Way and 43rd St back to I(41)/43/894 at Loomis Rd.

:nod:

Mike

Or if WisDOT is feeling REALLY generous, extend Wis 175 along the entire US 41 city street route from 10 years ago to include 27th St (now Wis 241) to eliminate another number. Just a thought.

A big chunk of what was the US 41 section of 27th St in the city was rebuilt as a tree-lined boulevard, turned over to the city, renamed as 'Layton Boulevard' (yes, a name duplication of an already existing major street in the city - Layton Ave :banghead: ) and no longer has the characteristics of a state highway.  Northbound, WI 241 ends at Forest Home Ave (WI 24), where 27th St becomes Layton Bd.

See:
http://goo.gl/maps/LuvsX

:spin:

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on December 30, 2012, 01:44:11 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on December 30, 2012, 11:33:49 AM
Quote from: hobsini2 on December 30, 2012, 06:24:33 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on December 30, 2012, 01:27:49 AM
Quote from: GeekJedi on December 30, 2012, 12:07:23 AM
I drove up to Neenah today and was disappointed to see that there weren't any "Future I-41" signs up yet!!  :-D

So with moving US-41 to follow I-94 -> I-894 -> US-45 in Milwaukee, will we finally see WI-341 posted?  I would think they'd want to number the Stadium Freeway stub unless they plan on turning it over to the county or something.  I guess they could bring the WI-175 designation all the way down as well...

I've often suggested extending WI 175 southward to replace US 41 on the streets to WisDOT.  Maybe it can be extended all the way down Miller Park Way and 43rd St back to I(41)/43/894 at Loomis Rd.

:nod:

Mike

Or if WisDOT is feeling REALLY generous, extend Wis 175 along the entire US 41 city street route from 10 years ago to include 27th St (now Wis 241) to eliminate another number. Just a thought.

A big chunk of what was the US 41 section of 27th St in the city was rebuilt as a tree-lined boulevard, turned over to the city, renamed as 'Layton Boulevard' (yes, a name duplication of an already existing major street in the city - Layton Ave :banghead: ) and no longer has the characteristics of a state highway.  Northbound, WI 241 ends at Forest Home Ave (WI 24), where 27th St becomes Layton Bd.


Layton Boulevard has been known by that name for years.  It may have shared a 27th Street designation or something similar, but it is by no means a recent name.  Unfortunately I know this because I got lost in the late 80s when I was supposed to go somewhere on Layton Boulevard and had it mixed up with Layton Avenue.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Rover_0 on December 31, 2012, 12:33:23 PM
I might be in the minority here when I say this, and this does go against my usual methods, but I think Wisconsin and Illinois DOT should route US-41 entirely along (supposed) I-41 and sign it solely as I-41. If I'm not mistaken, I-41's south end will be at the point where US-41 joins up with I-94 in Illinois. That way, US-41 already looks like it becomes I-41 there, so why not just avoid any possible number confusion and/or concurrent signage and make I-41 and US-41 all and one the same? That way, the route is either I-41 if up to Interstate standards or US-41 otherwise and you follow the number.

Now, I'm not sure if this is already being done, but I've had the impression that US-41 and I-41 will take slightly different routes somewhere along the line.

This also gives me an idea for the Fictional Highways thread.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on December 31, 2012, 12:45:29 PM
Quote from: Rover_0 on December 31, 2012, 12:33:23 PM
I might be in the minority here when I say this, and this does go against my usual methods, but I think Wisconsin and Illinois DOT should route US-41 entirely along (supposed) I-41 and sign it solely as I-41. If I'm not mistaken, I-41's south end will be at the point where US-41 joins up with I-94 in Illinois. That way, US-41 already looks like it becomes I-41 there, so why not just avoid any possible number confusion and/or concurrent signage and make I-41 and US-41 all and one the same? That way, the route is either I-41 if up to Interstate standards or US-41 otherwise and you follow the number.

Now, I'm not sure if this is already being done, but I've had the impression that US-41 and I-41 will take slightly different routes somewhere along the line.

This also gives me an idea for the Fictional Highways thread.


US 41 is being rerouted off of the streets and I-94 north of the Mitchell Interchange (I-(41)/43/94/894) and onto the same routing as the 'I-41' will take in Milwaukee County.  The two will be concurrent on I-41's entire length.

As I said above, I'd like to see WisDOT do the MnDOT thing here and post signs saying "For US 41/Follow I-41" - especially since, unlike with I-49 in Missouri, *NONE* of the signs and BGSes along the way, even the newest ones installed during 2012, have space reserved for an additional route shield.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Brandon on December 31, 2012, 12:52:20 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on December 31, 2012, 12:45:29 PM
Quote from: Rover_0 on December 31, 2012, 12:33:23 PM
I might be in the minority here when I say this, and this does go against my usual methods, but I think Wisconsin and Illinois DOT should route US-41 entirely along (supposed) I-41 and sign it solely as I-41. If I'm not mistaken, I-41's south end will be at the point where US-41 joins up with I-94 in Illinois. That way, US-41 already looks like it becomes I-41 there, so why not just avoid any possible number confusion and/or concurrent signage and make I-41 and US-41 all and one the same? That way, the route is either I-41 if up to Interstate standards or US-41 otherwise and you follow the number.

Now, I'm not sure if this is already being done, but I've had the impression that US-41 and I-41 will take slightly different routes somewhere along the line.

This also gives me an idea for the Fictional Highways thread.


US 41 is being rerouted off of the streets and I-94 north of the Mitchell Interchange (I-(41)/43/94/894) and onto the same routing as the 'I-41' will take in Milwaukee County.  The two will be concurrent on I-41's entire length.

As I said above, I'd like to see WisDOT do the MnDOT thing here and post signs saying "For US 41/Follow I-41" - especially since, unlike with I-49 in Missouri, *NONE* of the signs and BGSes along the way, even the newest ones installed during 2012, have space reserved for an additional route shield.

Mike

Having them (I-41 and US-41) be on the same route won't be too big a problem for most Wisconsinites.  They refer to numbered routes as highways anyway, and as "Highway 41" and so forth.  Even WisDOT does this practice.  I can see WisDOT using the text as "Hwy 41" as they do for "Hwy 94" and "Hwy 151".
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: english si on December 31, 2012, 04:40:25 PM
Quote from: Rover_0 on December 31, 2012, 12:33:23 PMI might be in the minority here when I say this
Actually, I think that most people here think that what WIDOT (and ILDOT) are doing is pretty sensible - they might have preferred a different number, but they can see that the problems with I-41/US41 are being dealt with.

Then again I have to wonder whether IL wanted I-41 to cross into their state just to aid them on the '2dis in the state' competition...
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on January 01, 2013, 01:12:01 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on December 30, 2012, 01:27:49 AM

I've often suggested extending WI 175 southward to replace US 41 on the streets to WisDOT.  Maybe it can be extended all the way down Miller Park Way and 43rd St back to I(41)/43/894 at Loomis Rd.

43rd Street ain't good enough for a state highway south of Lincoln Ave.  There's that seriously dilapidated railroad overpass that looks like it's liable to collapse under the weight of the next train.  Lot of exposed rebar and even stalactites dangling from that sucka!  Besides, the only non-freeway state highway in Milwaukee anyone refers to by number is "Highway A-hunnerd" so it'd be kind of superfluous.

Quote from: english siThen again I have to wonder whether IL wanted I-41 to cross into their state just to aid them on the '2dis in the state' competition...
Heh.  That's funny because in reality, Illinois didn't want anything to do with our new interstate.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Big John on January 03, 2013, 06:52:09 PM
2013 construction schedule announced:  http://www.us41wisconsin.gov/overview/about-the-project/2013-construction-schedule
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Molandfreak on January 03, 2013, 08:07:00 PM
Quote from: Big John on January 03, 2013, 06:52:09 PM
2013 construction schedule announced:  http://www.us41wisconsin.gov/overview/about-the-project/2013-construction-schedule

If they're also doing these upgrades north of I-43, why don't they just push for I-41 all the way to Abrams?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on January 04, 2013, 12:10:36 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on January 03, 2013, 08:07:00 PM

If they're also doing these upgrades north of I-43, why don't they just push for I-41 all the way to Abrams?

Because that would make sense.
(US 41/141 is a fully interstate compatible freeway north of I-43.)
Regardless, they should end US 141 at Abrams since it's continuation into Green Bay is pointless and needlessly adds another "41" to the area.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on January 04, 2013, 01:19:30 PM
141 goes through downtown Green Bay to I-43.  43 follows what used to be 141 to Milwaukee.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Brandon on January 04, 2013, 02:29:45 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on January 04, 2013, 01:19:30 PM
141 goes through downtown Green Bay to I-43.  43 follows what used to be 141 to Milwaukee.

A better question is, does US-141 still serve a purpose in going downtown Green Bay, or would it be better served by truncating US-141 at Abrams and using a new state highway in downtown Green Bay as say, Wis-541?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on January 04, 2013, 03:21:57 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 04, 2013, 02:29:45 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on January 04, 2013, 01:19:30 PM
141 goes through downtown Green Bay to I-43.  43 follows what used to be 141 to Milwaukee.

A better question is, does US-141 still serve a purpose in going downtown Green Bay, or would it be better served by truncating US-141 at Abrams and using a new state highway in downtown Green Bay as say, Wis-541?


It's even sillier than that.  From just off of I-43 southeast of the city, all the way to downtown Green Bay, US-141 duplexes with WI-29.  It really only runs alone on the streets of Green Bay from downtown, along Velp Avenue, to the US-41 freeway - a distance of maybe five miles.

Honestly, it doesn't even need a state highway designation.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Molandfreak on January 04, 2013, 05:22:05 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on January 04, 2013, 03:21:57 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 04, 2013, 02:29:45 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on January 04, 2013, 01:19:30 PM
141 goes through downtown Green Bay to I-43.  43 follows what used to be 141 to Milwaukee.

A better question is, does US-141 still serve a purpose in going downtown Green Bay, or would it be better served by truncating US-141 at Abrams and using a new state highway in downtown Green Bay as say, Wis-541?


It's even sillier than that.  From just off of I-43 southeast of the city, all the way to downtown Green Bay, US-141 duplexes with WI-29.  It really only runs alone on the streets of Green Bay from downtown, along Velp Avenue, to the US-41 freeway - a distance of maybe five miles.

Honestly, it doesn't even need a state highway designation.

Yes, WI 29 serves the purpose of a "business I-43" just as well. 141's portion independent from that long stretch is just silly and redundant in my opinion, and it should have been taken over by the county and/or city a long time ago.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on January 06, 2013, 02:32:34 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on January 04, 2013, 01:19:30 PM
141 goes through downtown Green Bay to I-43.  43 follows what used to be 141 to Milwaukee.
Exactly. Pointless.
It's not even a useful path through downtown.  GB has Mason Street for that.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mahaasma on February 08, 2013, 03:32:27 PM
Soooo, just got an email that the US 41 Interstate Conversion website has been updated.  The page it took me to (http://www.dot.wi.gov/projects/neregion/41/index.htm) doesn't indicate any updates, except what appears to be a subtle change in the map.  The new interstate is listed as only I-41, with no other alternatives....

Is that because that's what WisDOT recommended?  Or because it's now official?

Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Speedway99 on February 08, 2013, 05:58:16 PM
Oh well, I guess we won't see I-55 in Wisconsin after all. Why wouldn't they want a single number to Chicago, St. Louis, Memphis, and Jackson, and also keeping I41 open in ase it is ever needed. Also, Wisconsin doesn't even have an I-x5!
Title: Re: US 41 Wisconsin
Post by: Molandfreak on February 08, 2013, 06:21:22 PM
Quote from: Speedway99 on February 08, 2013, 05:58:16 PM
Oh well, I guess we won't see I-55 in Wisconsin after all. Why wouldn't they want a single number to Chicago, St. Louis, Memphis, and Jackson, and also keeping I41 open in ase it is ever needed. Also, Wisconsin doesn't even have an I-x5!
This is exactly what should have happened in the perfect world; I agree with about 95 percent of it:

Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 27, 2012, 06:05:01 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi113.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn208%2Ftriplemultiplex%2FHighway%2520System%2FUSChicagolandcap.jpg%3Ft%3D1330382712&hash=8139575c3561f635c618b2ada6ab2d2c62316896)
I still would have brought 55 up into WI, even with the current system.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Big John on February 08, 2013, 06:29:51 PM
Quote from: Speedway99 on February 08, 2013, 05:58:16 PM
Oh well, I guess we won't see I-55 in Wisconsin after all. Why wouldn't they want a single number to Chicago, St. Louis, Memphis, and Jackson, and also keeping I41 open in ase it is ever needed. Also, Wisconsin doesn't even have an I-x5!
That was the first choice for many in the corridor, but Illinois blocked that concept so Wisconsin had to go to an unused number and of those, 41 was the preferred choice.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: NE2 on February 08, 2013, 06:49:53 PM
Quote from: Big John on February 08, 2013, 06:29:51 PM
That [I-55] was the first choice for many in the corridor,
[citation needed]
I would think most locals would prefer to keep the number 41.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: InterstateNG on February 08, 2013, 06:53:20 PM
Quote from: Speedway99 on February 08, 2013, 05:58:16 PM
Also, Wisconsin doesn't even have an I-x5!

So?

As for what the locals prefer, I remember reading somewhere on this forum that they preferred 41 at a open house.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Big John on February 08, 2013, 07:15:38 PM
Quote from: NE2 on February 08, 2013, 06:49:53 PM
Quote from: Big John on February 08, 2013, 06:29:51 PM
That [I-55] was the first choice for many in the corridor,
[citation needed]
I would think most locals would prefer to keep the number 41.

https://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Interstate_55.html
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Big John on February 08, 2013, 07:19:35 PM
Quote from: InterstateNG on February 08, 2013, 06:53:20 PM
Quote from: Speedway99 on February 08, 2013, 05:58:16 PM
Also, Wisconsin doesn't even have an I-x5!

So?

As for what the locals prefer, I remember reading somewhere on this forum that they preferred 41 at a open house.
At the open houses, 55 was already out so the only choices given to the public were 41, 47, 594 and 643.  Of those four, 41 was the strong preference.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Molandfreak on February 08, 2013, 07:29:48 PM
Quote from: InterstateNG on February 08, 2013, 06:53:20 PM
Quote from: Speedway99 on February 08, 2013, 05:58:16 PM
Also, Wisconsin doesn't even have an I-x5!

So?
This is a legit problem. The other states that don't have an I-x5 have significantly lower populations than Wisconsin. It's only fair.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: NE2 on February 08, 2013, 07:57:16 PM
Quote from: Big John on February 08, 2013, 07:15:38 PM
Quote from: NE2 on February 08, 2013, 06:49:53 PM
Quote from: Big John on February 08, 2013, 06:29:51 PM
That [I-55] was the first choice for many in the corridor,
[citation needed]
I would think most locals would prefer to keep the number 41.

https://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Interstate_55.html

That's a Wikipedia mirror...
PS: it says "some local officials".
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Molandfreak on February 08, 2013, 08:04:49 PM
Quote from: NE2 on February 08, 2013, 07:57:16 PM
PS: it says "some local officials".
Local officials, by definition, are people on the corridor :police:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: InterstateNG on February 08, 2013, 08:10:28 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on February 08, 2013, 07:29:48 PM
Quote from: InterstateNG on February 08, 2013, 06:53:20 PM
Quote from: Speedway99 on February 08, 2013, 05:58:16 PM
Also, Wisconsin doesn't even have an I-x5!

So?
This is a legit problem. The other states that don't have an I-x5 have significantly lower populations than Wisconsin. It's only fair.

Legit problem?  It's a number on a sign, not Brown v. The Board Of Education.

And if you feel the need (and I don't) to qualify prestige to interstate numbers, then it can easily be argued that x5 = x0, and Wisconsin has one of the latter.  Furthermore, it can be argued I-35 serves the state.

The numbering debate on this road is stupidly tedious.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: NE2 on February 08, 2013, 08:12:19 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on February 08, 2013, 08:04:49 PM
Quote from: NE2 on February 08, 2013, 07:57:16 PM
PS: it says "some local officials".
Local officials, by definition, are people on the corridor :police:
Some, by definition, is not necessarily many.

(And obviously by many he means most, since otherwise his whole argument falls apart. But maybe I assume too much about his logical skills.)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Molandfreak on February 08, 2013, 08:35:08 PM
Quote from: NE2 on February 08, 2013, 08:12:19 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on February 08, 2013, 08:04:49 PM
Quote from: NE2 on February 08, 2013, 07:57:16 PM
PS: it says "some local officials".
Local officials, by definition, are people on the corridor :police:
Some, by definition, is not necessarily many.

(And obviously by many he means most, since otherwise his whole argument falls apart. But maybe I assume too much about his logical skills.)
How could you possibly get a source on the statistics of what people want to use for a corridor number?

And if there is such a thing, how many people would have done this:

What would you like the U.S. 41 corridor to be renumbered when it becomes an interstate?




Quote from: InterstateNG on February 08, 2013, 08:10:28 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on February 08, 2013, 07:29:48 PM
Quote from: InterstateNG on February 08, 2013, 06:53:20 PM
Quote from: Speedway99 on February 08, 2013, 05:58:16 PM
Also, Wisconsin doesn't even have an I-x5!

So?
This is a legit problem. The other states that don't have an I-x5 have significantly lower populations than Wisconsin. It's only fair.

Legit problem?  It's a number on a sign, not Brown v. The Board Of Education.

And if you feel the need (and I don't) to qualify prestige to interstate numbers, then it can easily be argued that x5 = x0, and Wisconsin has one of the latter.  Furthermore, it can be argued I-35 serves the state.

The numbering debate on this road is stupidly tedious.
Yeah, I do understand where you're coming from, and I agree about I-90 serving as the functional equivalent.

It's just... If my state got three main north-south highways on a nationwide system in 1927, and zero for its successor in 1957, I might be pretty dang pissed off :-/

I guess if WI was good enough for three back in the day, why isn't it good enough for one today? :biggrin:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: NE2 on February 08, 2013, 09:13:32 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on February 08, 2013, 08:35:08 PM
How could you possibly get a source on the statistics of what people want to use for a corridor number?
Ask them. If you don't have any statistics, stop caring.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Molandfreak on February 08, 2013, 09:23:53 PM
Quote from: NE2 on February 08, 2013, 09:13:32 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on February 08, 2013, 08:35:08 PM
How could you possibly get a source on the statistics of what people want to use for a corridor number?
Ask them. If you don't have any statistics, stop caring.
Lol, true :-D
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on February 09, 2013, 03:44:30 PM
Please stay on topic guys - The topic is about the Interstate conversion for US 41 in Wisconsin.

thank you
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Molandfreak on February 09, 2013, 07:37:40 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on February 09, 2013, 03:44:30 PM
Please stay on topic guys - The topic is about the Interstate conversion for US 41 in Wisconsin.

thank you
Thank you!!! :biggrin:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on February 09, 2013, 07:39:30 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on February 09, 2013, 03:44:30 PM
Please stay on topic guys - The topic is about the Interstate conversion for US 41 in Wisconsin.

thank you


The numbering of such has been debated before in this topic without it being red-flagged.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: on_wisconsin on February 09, 2013, 07:49:19 PM
^That stuff was pretty much before the number was decided.
These hopefully will clear up some debate:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv704%2Fpackerfan386%2Fmap-overview_zpsd45802db.png&hash=760a82e88855257b84642f3a124296d278e324c6)
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/neregion/41/docs/map-overview.pdf

QuoteWhy was I-41 recommended as the route number?

There are a number of reasons WisDOT, American Association of State Highway Transportation Officials. (AASHTO) and Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) conditionally approved I-41 as the route designation, including:

    I-41 follows the AASHTO guidelines of increasing route numbers west to east, with its location between I-39 and I-43.
    I-41 is the route designation number anticipated and preferred by the general public.
    I-41 allows for future Interstate loop or spur routes to be designated off of I-41.

Will Interstate 41 and US 41 follow the same route?


Yes. Because I-41 and US 41 will be concurrent the entire route, there should be no driver confusion about which "Route 41" to follow.

    US 41 joins I-94 at the Russell Road interchange, approximately 1 mile south of the WI/IL state line, making it the logical starting point for the conversion.
    The current route of US 41 in Milwaukee following I-94 from the Mitchell interchange, to the Marquette interchange, to the Miller Park interchange, and then north along Lisbon and Appleton Avenue will be relocated to be concurrent with I-41 along I-894 and US 45.
    Current US 41 from I-94 at the Miller Park interchange to the interchange with US 45 will be re-numbered to a state highway.
    The end point of I-41 will be in Green Bay at the I-43 interchange where US 41 will continue north to Michigan.

What other route numbers were considered?

A number of other route numbers were considered but, based on existing route numbering guidelines and public feedback, I-41 was deemed most appropriate.

Why extend I-41 to the Illinois border?

It is a logical starting point for the new Interstate. It will add 33 miles to the conversion, making the corridor 175 miles long. An economic assessment found Wisconsin will benefit from having the new interstate extended to Illinois.
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/neregion/41/faq.htm#recommended

Can we please get to talking about the road itself now...

Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on February 09, 2013, 09:42:01 PM
I guess I didn't realize that WIDOT's *recommendation* ended all debate on the matter.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: amroad17 on February 09, 2013, 11:25:42 PM
Basically, US 41 will turn into I-41 where it joins I-94 in Illinois and become US 41 again at the I-43 interchange in Green Bay with the understanding that US 41 is the hidden concurrency with I-41.  Sounds good to me.  Maybe NC can do this with I-74/US 74 whenever that stretch of freeway is completed.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on February 11, 2013, 10:03:56 PM
QuoteIt is estimated that 10-20 percent of the trucks currently operating on US 41 are hauling overweight or oversize loads by permit or allowed by state statute.
Hmm, so logging trucks are a pretty big chunk of the truck traffic.  (Most of those overweight loads are logging trucks bound for paper mills in the Fox Cites.)  I had convinced myself it wasn't that much, hence my grumbling about needing to jump through hoops to include an exception via Congress.  So we'll be waiting on that part for a little while longer...
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Revive 755 on February 11, 2013, 10:59:41 PM
QuoteWhy was I-41 recommended as the route number?

I-41 follows the AASHTO guidelines of increasing route numbers west to east, with its location between I-39 and I-43.

Except that the southern extension becomes east of I-43.  Also convenient of AAHSTO to suddenly throw out the I-/US- duplication rule in favor of numbering arguments.
 
QuoteI-41 allows for future Interstate loop or spur routes to be designated off of I-41.

1) I'd believe this argument more if Wisconsin had more 3di's than the two in the Milwaukee area - maybe if there was already an I-x43 in Green Bay, or than had been talk of an interstate designation for the unbuilt Racine Loop Freeway.

2) Could have easily had future spurs or loops with any new 2di.  Given the lack of I-x43's and I-x94's, could have easily met this requirement with the I-594 or I-643 options too.

QuoteWhy extend I-41 to the Illinois border?

It is a logical starting point for the new Interstate.

And there are how many other interstates that end after just crossing the state line, excluding those that had or have plans for future extensions?



As for the road itself, is US 45 really interstate standard north of the Zoo interchange?  The hills and curves don't seem up to par.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on February 12, 2013, 01:01:57 AM
Quote from: Revive 755 on February 11, 2013, 10:59:41 PM
QuoteI-41 allows for future Interstate loop or spur routes to be designated off of I-41.

1) I'd believe this argument more if Wisconsin had more 3di's than the two in the Milwaukee area - maybe if there was already an I-x43 in Green Bay, or than had been talk of an interstate designation for the unbuilt Racine Loop Freeway.

2) Could have easily had future spurs or loops with any new 2di.  Given the lack of I-x43's and I-x94's, could have easily met this requirement with the I-594 or I-643 options too.

"WI 441"

:nod:

(Note, this one could also potentially be extended westward to I-39.)

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: gbgoose on February 12, 2013, 08:51:23 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 12, 2013, 01:01:57 AM
Quote from: Revive 755 on February 11, 2013, 10:59:41 PM
QuoteI-41 allows for future Interstate loop or spur routes to be designated off of I-41.

1) I'd believe this argument more if Wisconsin had more 3di's than the two in the Milwaukee area - maybe if there was already an I-x43 in Green Bay, or than had been talk of an interstate designation for the unbuilt Racine Loop Freeway.

2) Could have easily had future spurs or loops with any new 2di.  Given the lack of I-x43's and I-x94's, could have easily met this requirement with the I-594 or I-643 options too.

"WI 441"

:nod:

(Note, this one could also potentially be extended westward to I-39.)

Mike

You could add Wis-172 to the list of candidates for an I-x43 or I-x41 as well.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Molandfreak on February 12, 2013, 11:20:10 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 12, 2013, 01:01:57 AM
(Note, this one could also potentially be extended westward to I-39.)
I-441 in my mind would just go to Winchester. The 10-45 corridor from Stevens Point to Oshkosh would be I-339. :biggrin:

Quote from: Revive 755 on February 11, 2013, 10:59:41 PM
2) Could have easily had future spurs or loops with any new 2di.  Given the lack of I-x43's and I-x94's, could have easily met this requirement with the I-594 or I-643 options too.
I hate unneeded spurs of spurs. They make things confusing. X-( :-/
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Anthony_JK on February 12, 2013, 11:29:33 AM
Personally, if I had my druthers, I'd terminate I-41 at the Hale Interchange, and also get rid of the I-894 concurrence entirely. That eliminates the "east of I-43" problem south of Milwaukee quite nicely. Why extend it just to truncate it at the IL border??
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Molandfreak on February 12, 2013, 11:46:21 AM
Quote from: Anthony_JK on February 12, 2013, 11:29:33 AM
Personally, if I had my druthers, I'd terminate I-41 at the Hale Interchange, and also get rid of the I-894 concurrence entirely. That eliminates the "east of I-43" problem south of Milwaukee quite nicely. Why extend it just to truncate it at the IL border??
Or the Zoo interchange which eliminates the wrong-way concurrency, and have I-43 by itself on the east-west portion of I-894.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on February 12, 2013, 12:24:04 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on February 12, 2013, 11:46:21 AM
Quote from: Anthony_JK on February 12, 2013, 11:29:33 AM
Personally, if I had my druthers, I'd terminate I-41 at the Hale Interchange, and also get rid of the I-894 concurrence entirely. That eliminates the "east of I-43" problem south of Milwaukee quite nicely. Why extend it just to truncate it at the IL border??
Or the Zoo interchange which eliminates the wrong-way concurrency, and have I-43 by itself on the east-west portion of I-894.

The reason for the number continuing through is that that is a major through traffic corridor (Chicagoland and beyond <-> the Fond du Lac/Oshkosh/Appleton area and beyond) and it is advisable to give such corridors single through route numbers.  The many number changes on that routing has been a major bugaboo for the Fox Valley (people traveling to or from here have actually gotten lost because of that) and I've been pestering WisDOT about that since the 1980s ("Why not reroute US 41 to follow that logical freeway corridor?" ad nauseum).

:poke:

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on February 12, 2013, 02:10:24 PM
Quote from: Anthony_JK on February 12, 2013, 11:29:33 AM
Personally, if I had my druthers, I'd terminate I-41 at the Hale Interchange, and also get rid of the I-894 concurrence entirely. That eliminates the "east of I-43" problem south of Milwaukee quite nicely. Why extend it just to truncate it at the IL border??


My guess is that it is because I-41 is going to be replacing US-41.  If I were to guess, you will see US-41 "disappear" at the WI border, replaced with I-41, and then "reappear" when I-41 ends by Green Bay.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on February 12, 2013, 02:57:32 PM
"Current US 41 from I-94 at the Miller Park interchange to the interchange with US 45 will be re-numbered to a state highway."

My vote?  Extend WI-175 and terminate it at WI-59.  It eliminates the "phantom" WI-341 and prevents another short, random highway.  It's an obvious "natural" extension.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: english si on February 12, 2013, 05:08:13 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 12, 2013, 02:10:24 PMIf I were to guess, you will see US-41 "disappear" at the WI border
A mile south of the border. IL signed off on it.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on February 12, 2013, 09:05:38 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on February 11, 2013, 10:59:41 PM
As for the road itself, is US 45 really interstate standard north of the Zoo interchange?  The hills and curves don't seem up to par.

It's fine north of North Ave.  South of there is about to be reconstructed so it's not going to matter in a few years.  The curve & hills associated with the railroad overpass between North Ave. and Mayfair Rd. are definitely substandard.  But the fix is in the pipeline so good enough for me.

It's actually US 41 that is technically substandard in Washington County north of the US 45 split where the distance between carriageways is too small to not have a median barrier of some sort.  Also the interchange with WI 144 in Slinger is substandard.  But that's getting rebuilt either this year or next (don't remember which).

Quote from: GeekJedi on February 12, 2013, 02:57:32 PM
"Current US 41 from I-94 at the Miller Park interchange to the interchange with US 45 will be re-numbered to a state highway."

My vote?  Extend WI-175 and terminate it at WI-59.  It eliminates the "phantom" WI-341 and prevents another short, random highway.  It's an obvious "natural" extension.

Seconded.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on February 12, 2013, 09:16:44 PM
Extending WI-175 wouldn't be that difficult because WI-341 doesn't show up on any BGS and has no reassurance markers that I am aware of.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on February 13, 2013, 12:04:44 AM
Quote from: GeekJedi on February 12, 2013, 02:57:32 PM
"Current US 41 from I-94 at the Miller Park interchange to the interchange with US 45 will be re-numbered to a state highway."

My vote?  Extend WI-175 and terminate it at WI-59.  It eliminates the "phantom" WI-341 and prevents another short, random highway.  It's an obvious "natural" extension.

That's part of the US 41 reroute that I was 'pestering' WisDOT about since the 1980s.

:nod:

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on February 16, 2013, 10:29:46 AM
During a presentation on Friday, 2013-02-15 at WisDOT's Green Bay office in Ashwaubenon, Governor Scott Walker announced that there will be *no* delays in the planned big-shovel rebuild and 'completion' of the US(I)-41/US 10/WI 441 interchange between Appleton and Neenah (the 'Bridgeview' interchange) as well as for the planned WI 15 bypass of Hortonville and four-laning between the Greenville area and US 45 at New London.

Construction could get under was as soon as next year.

http://www.whby.com/index.php/News/WHBY_News/73329

:cool:

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hobsini2 on February 17, 2013, 02:39:38 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 16, 2013, 10:29:46 AM
During a presentation on Friday, 2013-02-15 at WisDOT's Green Bay office in Ashwaubenon, Governor Scott Walker announced that there will be *no* delays in the planned big-shovel rebuild and 'completion' of the US(I)-41/US 10/WI 441 interchange between Appleton and Neenah (the 'Bridgeview' interchange) as well as for the planned WI 15 bypass of Hortonville and four-laning between the Greenville area and US 45 at New London.

Construction could get under was as soon as next year.

http://www.whby.com/index.php/News/WHBY_News/73329

:cool:

Mike

While I like the idea of these projects getting underway as soon as possible, quite frankly I do not trust Governor Walker's word. Without getting too much off subject, he broke promises he made to the teacher's and public service unions after he was elected. But anyway, I hope he is right now.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: DaBigE on February 17, 2013, 04:09:14 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on February 17, 2013, 02:39:38 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 16, 2013, 10:29:46 AM
During a presentation on Friday, 2013-02-15 at WisDOT's Green Bay office in Ashwaubenon, Governor Scott Walker announced that there will be *no* delays in the planned big-shovel rebuild and 'completion' of the US(I)-41/US 10/WI 441 interchange between Appleton and Neenah (the 'Bridgeview' interchange) as well as for the planned WI 15 bypass of Hortonville and four-laning between the Greenville area and US 45 at New London.

Construction could get under was as soon as next year.

http://www.whby.com/index.php/News/WHBY_News/73329

:cool:

Mike

While I like the idea of these projects getting underway as soon as possible, quite frankly I do not trust Governor Walker's word. Without getting too much off subject, he broke promises he made to the teacher's and public service unions after he was elected. But anyway, I hope he is right now.

Not to get too far off-topic either, but when have you ever been able to trust any politician's word?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: vtk on February 17, 2013, 04:40:11 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on February 17, 2013, 02:39:38 PM
While I like the idea of these projects getting underway as soon as possible, quite frankly I do not trust Governor Walker's word.

On the other hand, I think Walker can be compared in a lot of ways to Ohio's Kasich.  He proclaimed that ODOT, under previous administrations, had promised way too much in the face of declining infrastructure funding, and forced a much more pessimistic forecast for big projects.  It totally sucks, but at the same time there's much more confidence that ODOT will do all the things it now says it will.  I'm not sure if Wisconsin has gone through similar spending forecast revisions, I don't think a republican governor is going to admit to spending a lot of money on something unless the citizens can see results quickly.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on February 17, 2013, 06:02:01 PM
A few short years ago, Wisconsin's state finances were in worse shape than Illinois' and the previous governor was actively raiding the transport segregated fund to cover part of the shortfalls - causing projects to be delayed (among other things).  The state's budget is now running a very sizable surplus (the latest report being about $500M) and there is now enough padding in the finances to be able to move WisDOT projects back up.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Alps on February 17, 2013, 08:26:13 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 17, 2013, 06:02:01 PM
A few short years ago, Wisconsin's state finances were in worse shape than Illinois' and the previous governor was actively raiding the transport segregated fund to cover part of the shortfalls - causing projects to be delayed (among other things).  The state's budget is now running a very sizable surplus (the latest report being about $500M) and there is now enough padding in the finances to be able to move WisDOT projects back up.

Mike
If there is enough money, that doesn't guarantee it will go to infrastructure. I guarantee you civil engineering firms in Wisconsin are lobbying hard for that, but there are a lot of competing interests.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on February 17, 2013, 08:32:05 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on February 17, 2013, 06:02:01 PM
A few short years ago, Wisconsin's state finances were in worse shape than Illinois'


That is completely false because you are ignorning Illinois' unfunded pension liabilities...which Wisconsin does not have to deal with.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on February 17, 2013, 09:00:31 PM
True, I was going on current term budget items, but yes, Wisconsin is the only USA state whose government employee pension system is fully funded.

And also, yes, I am aware that there is more to a state's government than just the DOT and they will all be competing for added attention, but things are still in far, far better shape now than they were back in the 'double-aughts'.

:nod:

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on February 20, 2013, 09:43:11 AM
Looking ahead to what's next on 41 & 29 interchange:
http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/green_bay/upcoming-41-and-29-intersection-changes
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on February 20, 2013, 12:52:59 PM
Quote from: Fox 11 News on February 20, 2013, 09:43:11 AM
Looking ahead to what's next on 41 & 29 interchange:
http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/green_bay/upcoming-41-and-29-intersection-changes

Interesting shot of crews setting box-beams for that ramp, as well as WisDOT's drive-through animation for the NB US(I)-41 to WB WI 29/32 ramp.

Thanx!

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on February 20, 2013, 05:35:28 PM
Quote"It'll be interesting. It'll make us look like one of the big cities like Milwaukee and stuff like that,"

:-D

Now that's a memorable quote!

One of those big cities, like Milwaukee.  Or Wausau....  :happy:

I wonder, Fox 11 dude, does our discussion of the big US/I 41 projects help inform your reporting about them?  I assume it can only help to have a group of well informed citizens discussing the ins and outs of those projects and the I-41 conversion.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on February 20, 2013, 08:31:31 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 20, 2013, 05:35:28 PM
Quote"It'll be interesting. It'll make us look like one of the big cities like Milwaukee and stuff like that,"

:-D

Now that's a memorable quote!

One of those big cities, like Milwaukee.  Or Wausau....  :happy:

I wonder, Fox 11 dude, does our discussion of the big US/I 41 projects help inform your reporting about them?  I assume it can only help to have a group of well informed citizens discussing the ins and outs of those projects and the I-41 conversion.
Green Bay trumps Wausau big time, but still the latter deserved those interchanges.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on February 20, 2013, 09:50:26 PM
I'm pretty much expecting several of the ramps at the Bridgeview interchange (US(I)-41/US 10/WI 441 between Appleton and Neenah) to look like that, too, when that interchange is rebuilt, likely starting next year.

:nod:

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on February 22, 2013, 03:40:16 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 20, 2013, 05:35:28 PM
Quote"It'll be interesting. It'll make us look like one of the big cities like Milwaukee and stuff like that,"

:-D

Now that's a memorable quote!

One of those big cities, like Milwaukee.  Or Wausau....  :happy:

I wonder, Fox 11 dude, does our discussion of the big US/I 41 projects help inform your reporting about them?  I assume it can only help to have a group of well informed citizens discussing the ins and outs of those projects and the I-41 conversion.

It's always good to see what opinions and views are out there about whatever the topic. And these types of boards help us be exposed to a variety of views and things we may not have thought of - or topics/updates we wouldn't have seen otherwise or as quickly.

For topics like the US-41 interstate number selection, I don't think we would have had an understanding of the competing interests/rules/guidelines and interpretations thereof without looking at this board. And while we don't necessarily go into the same level of detail that board posters do, hopefully we can ask better questions and make fewer mistakes.

And, I readily admit that we post our stories to topic-interest boards because we hope people will turn to us for coverage - or just click on the story. So, we post a Gamblers feature on a USHL board, the US 41 feature here, etc.

- Brian Kerhin, assignment manager
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Big John on March 20, 2013, 05:57:39 PM
http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/green_bay/stretch-of-highway-41-closing-march-22-24-2013

Now part of the NB freeway to close by Green Bay for the weekend.  Essentially a sanitary sewer relocation since the existing pipe is in the way of future work.  Equipment got stuck whole boring the hole deep under the freeway, so huge equipment was brought in to free that up and proceeded from the other end of the hole.  That also got stuck by an unknown obstacle so now the only way to free that up is to dig a trench from the top thus requiring the closure to the NB lanes.  Plus will cost WisDOT 3/4-1 1/2 million additional dollars to fix this.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Alps on March 20, 2013, 11:56:22 PM
Quote from: Big John on March 20, 2013, 05:57:39 PM
http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/green_bay/stretch-of-highway-41-closing-march-22-24-2013

Now part of the NB freeway to close by Green Bay for the weekend.  Essentially a sanitary sewer relocation since the existing pipe is in the way of future work.  Equipment got stuck whole boring the hole deep under the freeway, so huge equipment was brought in to free that up and proceeded from the other end of the hole.  That also got stuck by an unknown obstacle so now the only way to free that up is to dig a trench from the top thus requiring the closure to the NB lanes.  Plus will cost WisDOT 3/4-1 1/2 million additional dollars to fix this.
Someone either failed to detect subsurface anomalies, or that work was skipped entirely.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on March 25, 2013, 12:32:20 PM
and the road re-opened ahead of schedule:
http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/green_bay/northbound-lanes-of-highway-41-back-open-after-construction-work
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on April 09, 2013, 08:28:38 AM
A look at tub girder installation at 41 & 29. DOT says there were problems with the girders when first delivered.

http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/green_bay/overpass-girders-installed-at-41-29-interchange
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on April 10, 2013, 01:01:47 AM
^^
"75 year design life" on those ramps?  Interesting.

:nod:

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on April 23, 2013, 08:25:24 AM
This is just a bit off US41, but may be of interest. Work continues on the Cabela's for Green Bay - at US 41 and Lombardi Avenue.

Right now when you get off US 41 Northbound and go east on Lombardi, there's a merge lane. That will be extended to a new intersection about a block east of 41 to allow access into the Cabela's site. Work started Monday.

http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/green_bay/cabelas-begins-hiring-as-construction-continues
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on April 23, 2013, 10:47:46 AM
Quote from: Fox 11 News on April 23, 2013, 08:25:24 AM
This is just a bit off US41, but may be of interest. Work continues on the Cabela's for Green Bay - at US 41 and Lombardi Avenue.

Right now when you get off US 41 Northbound and go east on Lombardi, there's a merge lane. That will be extended to a new intersection about a block east of 41 to allow access into the Cabela's site. Work started Monday.

http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/green_bay/cabelas-begins-hiring-as-construction-continues

For those in here who are not from the area and may be unaware, Lombardi Ave east of US(I)-41 is the pre-1974 routing of US 41 (before the part through the Ashwaubenon interchange, WI 172, was completed) and a short distance farther east from the Cabela's site, and towering over that entire neighborhood area, is Lambeau Field (NFL Packers).  The WLUK-TV (Channel 11) studio building is just east of Lambeau Field on Lombardi Ave, BTW.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hobsini2 on April 24, 2013, 08:12:34 PM
One of the things I love about the Green Bay area is that you can see Lambeau from the I-43 and Wis 172 bridges over the Fox. Sorry to go off tangent.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on April 25, 2013, 10:02:00 AM
Quote from: hobsini2 on April 24, 2013, 08:12:34 PM
One of the things I love about the Green Bay area is that you can see Lambeau from the I-43 and Wis 172 bridges over the Fox. Sorry to go off tangent.
then you might like this story;
http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/green_bay/lambeaus-scoreboards-from-a-distance
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hobsini2 on April 25, 2013, 10:20:46 AM
Quote from: Fox 11 News on April 25, 2013, 10:02:00 AM
Quote from: hobsini2 on April 24, 2013, 08:12:34 PM
One of the things I love about the Green Bay area is that you can see Lambeau from the I-43 and Wis 172 bridges over the Fox. Sorry to go off tangent.
then you might like this story;
http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/green_bay/lambeaus-scoreboards-from-a-distance

That's an awesome side story Fox 11. I am not surprised that someone in your news department came up with the idea.  I was unaware of the story you did on it in last August.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on April 26, 2013, 09:20:55 PM
That's an awesome story!  It's amazing how the stadium has grown over the years and how clearly it can now be seen from I-43 and WI-172.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: cwm1276 on May 02, 2013, 08:58:13 AM
Is another section of dridge going in?  I have been seeing some larger girders going up 39. Usually they are parked at the old Rochelle, IL truck pull off for the night.  They look similar to the ones in the pictures.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: gbgoose on May 02, 2013, 09:23:39 AM
Quote from: cwm1276 on May 02, 2013, 08:58:13 AM
Is another section of dridge going in?  I have been seeing some larger girders going up 39. Usually they are parked at the old Rochelle, IL truck pull off for the night.  They look similar to the ones in the pictures.

I would say yes.  There has been a couple sections that have gone up and another in process at the 41-29 interchange.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on May 02, 2013, 11:25:32 AM
There are still some incomplete flyover ramps at the US(I)-41/WI 29 'Shawano' interchange.

See the image for "US 41 @ WIS 29" in the site
http://www.511wi.gov/Web/Cameras.aspx?countyfilter=Brown&page=2

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on May 06, 2013, 02:02:43 PM
This is just north of the conversion project, so hopefully no one gets mad I put it here instead of the general Wisconsin notes.

Release we got from DOT today:

US 41 corridor study north of Green Bay completed
Corridor determined adequate to meet demands through 2035

(Green Bay) The Wisconsin Department of Transportation (WisDOT) northeast region office in Green Bay has announced the findings regarding a multi-year corridor study of US 41 in Brown County from north of County M (Lineville Road) in the village of Suamico to the US 41/141 interchange in the town of Abrams, Oconto County.  The study concluded in April 2013.

The study evaluated interchanges, adjacent frontage roads, traffic capacity, safety, and operations along this section of the US 41 corridor.  It considered what improvements would be needed for this highway to operate effectively through 2035. 

The findings were very positive and indicated that based on available traffic data within the study limits, the current stretch of US 41 north of Green Bay will continue to operate at an acceptable level to the year 2035. As a result of the study, no capacity expansion (adding of travel lanes) is recommended at this time.

WisDOT reported these findings at a meeting with local officials and other stakeholders at a meeting at the Suamico Village Hall on Wednesday, April 17. 

The department encourages local units of government to continue partnering with WisDOT in maintaining acceptable US 41 operations and requested local officials consider coordinating with WisDOT's NE Region early in the process to discuss development plans near or at the US 41 interchanges within the study area.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on May 07, 2013, 11:38:41 AM
I agree that that part of US 41/141, although carrying a very healthy amount of traffic, is not being overwhelmed by it and the recent freeway upgrades should carry it for at least the next 20 years.

OTOH, I can easily see a need for six-lane upgrades between Scheuring Rd in De Pere (south end of the current six-lane upgrade project in the Green Bay area) and WI 15/Northland Ave in the NW Appleton area (north end of the current six lanes in the Appleton-Oshkosh area) within that time frame as traffic is starting to overwhelm it - and not just after Packer games (often operates at LOS D during commuter drive times).

North of Green Bay, I would be trying to strong-arm MDOT into developing a four-lane US 41 bypass freeway in the Marinette, WI/Menominee, MI area.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Molandfreak on May 07, 2013, 11:58:34 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on May 07, 2013, 11:38:41 AM
I agree that that part of US 41/141, although carrying a very healthy amount of traffic, is not being overwhelmed by it and the recent freeway upgrades should carry it for at least the next 20 years.

OTOH, I can easily see a need for six-lane upgrades between Scheuring Rd in De Pere (south end of the current six-lane upgrade project in the Green Bay area) and WI 15/Northland Ave in the NW Appleton area (north end of the current six lanes in the Appleton-Oshkosh area) within that time frame as traffic is starting to overwhelm it - and not just after Packer games (often operates at LOS D during commuter drive times).

North of Green Bay, I would be trying to strong-arm MDOT into developing a four-lane US 41 bypass freeway in the Marinette, WI/Menominee, MI area.

Mike
Good luck with that... I don't think MDOT could care less about traffic levels in the UP  :-/
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on May 08, 2013, 11:29:11 AM
latest project update:


Massive tub girders holding flyover ramps to rise up in Green Bay
Full closures of US 41 and WIS 29 will take place. Expect significant delay.

(Green Bay)  Massive steel tub girders that help create the transportation arteries in the heart of the Brown County US 41 Corridor Expansion project are about to change Green Bay's skyline forever. Construction crews will lift the girders, which support the flyover ramps, beginning Friday night, May 10. This means numerous road closures and detours for motorists in one of the busiest intersections in northeast Wisconsin.

The Wisconsin Department of Transportation (WisDOT) Northeast Region office in Green Bay is announcing that crews will lift and set all the steel tub girders that will support the WIS 29/US 41 interchange flyover ramps during the next few weeks. This will prompt a series of necessary nighttime, full closures of US 41 and WIS 29 and adjacent on/off-ramps. The first girders are scheduled to go up overnight Friday, May 10 and Monday, May 13 over WIS 29. Crews will then set numerous other girders above the highways over the next 35-45 days, weather dependent.

In order to safely lift and set the girders over roads, parts of the interchange must be completely shut down and traffic diverted. To reduce delays for the traveling public, the tub girders will be set during the overnight hours and scheduled for completion by 6 a.m. As with all construction, unexpected delays could force closure of critical roads into the morning rush hour.

"WisDOT has created contingency plans to inform the public should a girder lift and set begin that night and spill into morning rush hour," said Will Dorsey, Director, Northeast Region. "We don't take closing a highway lightly. We have communication tools to get motorists the information they need quickly, and minimize any inconvenience."   

WisDOT will send a road closure alert and suggested detour to local media, the US 41 website, and social media a day before the expected girder lift and set. By 4 a.m. WisDOT will know if a lift is going to affect peak morning traffic. The department will then:
Inform northeast Wisconsin media before 5 a.m.
Place electronic, roadside messaging boards
Update the closure on the US 41 website www.us41wisconsin.gov
Display on WisDOT's 511 traffic alert website www.511wi.gov
Tweet to US 41 followers on Twitter at @WisconsinUS41
Post to US 41 Facebook page: www.facebook.com/WisconsinUS41

To get instant access to US 41 information via tweets or Facebook posts to your timeline, simply like the Facebook page or follow the US 41 project on Twitter.

"We have highway closure templates and detour maps ready to go if needed," said Dorsey. "Ideally, we would like to choose 40 or so days and say, 'This is it. These are the days we'll be placing the tub girders.' But we can't do that because of Mother Nature."

According to Dorsey, everyone will know a day or two in advance of a full highway or ramp closure for a girder lift overnight, and WisDOT will get the word out by 5 a.m. if that lift spills into rush hour. Both wind and weather can affect the girder lifts. Cancelations and modification of girder lifts can take place at any time. Please remember that all lane restrictions and work operations are weather dependent and subject to change.
Title: Another section complete!
Post by: mgk920 on May 08, 2013, 08:49:42 PM
I drove down to Oshkosh earlier today and found that except for a very short section around Neevin Rd where the left lane is still down northbound for some 'touch up' pavement repairs, the upgrade project is now complete, the bandages have been pulled aside and all six lanes are open for normal speed travel from Neenah southward to US 45, interchange 120 (Algoma Interchange) in Oshkosh.

:cheers:

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Henry on May 09, 2013, 01:00:06 PM
Sounds like an interesting drive!
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Lyon Wonder on May 12, 2013, 08:40:24 PM
Maybe US-41 should be truncated to avoid confusion with I-41 after the freeway upgrades in WI are complete, since I-41 is the designation WDOT seems to be going with?  Of course it would require the cooperation of MI since they have a short segment of US-41.  The new northern end of US-41 could be at the interchange with the I-94 Tri-State Tollway just south of the WI border in IL, which provides direct continuity with US-41 and I-41. 

Or, if IDOT doesn't want US-41 and I-41 to be too close since WSDOT wants I-41 co-signed with I-94 into IL, they could push US-41's northern terminus even further south to IN at US-12/20 in Hammond, extend US-14's southern terminus down Lake Shore Drive to US-12/20 and give the at-grade US-41 north of Chicago in Lake County a state route number.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: bulldog1979 on May 12, 2013, 08:54:47 PM
Quote from: Lyon Wonder on May 12, 2013, 08:40:24 PM
Maybe US-41 should be truncated to avoid confusion with I-41 after the freeway upgrades in WI are complete, since I-41 is the designation WDOT seems to be going with?  Of course it would require the cooperation of MI since they have a short segment of US-41.  The new northern end of US-41 could be at the interchange with the I-94 Tri-State Tollway just south of the WI border in IL, which provides direct continuity with US-41 and I-41. 

Or, if IDOT doesn't want US-41 and I-41 to be too close since WSDOT wants I-41 co-signed with I-94 into IL, they could push US-41's northern terminus even further south to IN at US-12/20 in Hammond, extend US-14's southern terminus down Lake Shore Drive to US-12/20 and give the at-grade US-41 north of Chicago in Lake County a state route number.

Michigan's segment isn't "short". At just under 280 miles, it's the fifth longest highway in the state. I really doubt MDOT would agree if IDOT and WisDOT asked them to go along with removing the number from the state.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Lyon Wonder on May 12, 2013, 11:37:33 PM
Quote from: bulldog1979 on May 12, 2013, 08:54:47 PM

Michigan's segment isn't "short". At just under 280 miles, it's the fifth longest highway in the state. I really doubt MDOT would agree if IDOT and WisDOT asked them to go along with removing the number from the state.

You're right.  I most have been thinking of US-51, which has an extremely short distance in MI.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Molandfreak on May 12, 2013, 11:58:37 PM
Quote from: Lyon Wonder on May 12, 2013, 11:37:33 PM
Quote from: bulldog1979 on May 12, 2013, 08:54:47 PM

Michigan's segment isn't "short". At just under 280 miles, it's the fifth longest highway in the state. I really doubt MDOT would agree if IDOT and WisDOT asked them to go along with removing the number from the state.

You're right.  I most have been thinking of US-51, which has an extremely short distance in MI.
Extremely short as in 0 miles. 51 terminates in Hurley, WI :bigass:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Rover_0 on May 13, 2013, 12:49:10 AM
Quote from: Lyon Wonder on May 12, 2013, 08:40:24 PM
Maybe US-41 should be truncated to avoid confusion with I-41 after the freeway upgrades in WI are complete, since I-41 is the designation WDOT seems to be going with?  Of course it would require the cooperation of MI since they have a short segment of US-41.  The new northern end of US-41 could be at the interchange with the I-94 Tri-State Tollway just south of the WI border in IL, which provides direct continuity with US-41 and I-41. 

Or, if IDOT doesn't want US-41 and I-41 to be too close since WSDOT wants I-41 co-signed with I-94 into IL, they could push US-41's northern terminus even further south to IN at US-12/20 in Hammond, extend US-14's southern terminus down Lake Shore Drive to US-12/20 and give the at-grade US-41 north of Chicago in Lake County a state route number.

I'd argue that this is one place where I'd hide the US-41 signs and say that "US-41 becomes I-41" for I-41's length. It might not work elsewhere (such as on I-/US-74 in NC), but here, it would be perfect.

I wished that they planned this when formulating the Interstate system. I made a thread in Fictional Highways (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=8395.0) about this, and plan to resume it soon.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on May 13, 2013, 08:57:11 AM
Quote from: Lyon Wonder on May 12, 2013, 08:40:24 PM
Maybe US-41 should be truncated to avoid confusion with I-41 after the freeway upgrades in WI are complete, since I-41 is the designation WDOT seems to be going with?  Of course it would require the cooperation of MI since they have a short segment of US-41.  The new northern end of US-41 could be at the interchange with the I-94 Tri-State Tollway just south of the WI border in IL, which provides direct continuity with US-41 and I-41. 


I don't think there will be any confusion whatsoever.  US-41 will disappear...it will be replaced with I-41...and then reappear north of Green Bay.  Same number, same highway with just a different color shield.  Most of the travelling public will take it in stride.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on May 13, 2013, 08:58:00 AM
Quote from: Molandfreak on May 12, 2013, 11:58:37 PM
Quote from: Lyon Wonder on May 12, 2013, 11:37:33 PM
Quote from: bulldog1979 on May 12, 2013, 08:54:47 PM

Michigan's segment isn't "short". At just under 280 miles, it's the fifth longest highway in the state. I really doubt MDOT would agree if IDOT and WisDOT asked them to go along with removing the number from the state.

You're right.  I most have been thinking of US-51, which has an extremely short distance in MI.
Extremely short as in 0 miles. 51 terminates in Hurley, WI :bigass:


Maybe he's thinking of US-8.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on May 13, 2013, 09:57:12 AM
Quote from: Rover_0 on May 13, 2013, 12:49:10 AM
Quote from: Lyon Wonder on May 12, 2013, 08:40:24 PM
Maybe US-41 should be truncated to avoid confusion with I-41 after the freeway upgrades in WI are complete, since I-41 is the designation WDOT seems to be going with?  Of course it would require the cooperation of MI since they have a short segment of US-41.  The new northern end of US-41 could be at the interchange with the I-94 Tri-State Tollway just south of the WI border in IL, which provides direct continuity with US-41 and I-41. 

Or, if IDOT doesn't want US-41 and I-41 to be too close since WSDOT wants I-41 co-signed with I-94 into IL, they could push US-41's northern terminus even further south to IN at US-12/20 in Hammond, extend US-14's southern terminus down Lake Shore Drive to US-12/20 and give the at-grade US-41 north of Chicago in Lake County a state route number.

I'd argue that this is one place where I'd hide the US-41 signs and say that "US-41 becomes I-41" for I-41's length It might not work elsewhere (such as on I-/US-74 in NC), but here, it would be perfect.

I wished that they planned this when formulating the Interstate system. I made a thread in Fictional Highways (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=8395.0) about this, and plan to resume it soon.

ISTR that that was in the original mid-20th century I-system discussions, but state-level political ineptness, as well as the cost of upgrading the existing US 41 to standards at that time (a similar situation to the US/CA 99 v. I-5 thing and to which necessary standards upgrades are STILL ongoing!), ended up conspiring to omit it from the map.

This is worth further academic study.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Molandfreak on May 13, 2013, 11:42:11 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 13, 2013, 08:58:00 AM
Quote from: Molandfreak on May 12, 2013, 11:58:37 PM
Quote from: Lyon Wonder on May 12, 2013, 11:37:33 PM
Quote from: bulldog1979 on May 12, 2013, 08:54:47 PM

Michigan's segment isn't "short". At just under 280 miles, it's the fifth longest highway in the state. I really doubt MDOT would agree if IDOT and WisDOT asked them to go along with removing the number from the state.

You're right.  I most have been thinking of US-51, which has an extremely short distance in MI.
Extremely short as in 0 miles. 51 terminates in Hurley, WI :bigass:


Maybe he's thinking of US-8.
Very possible :nod:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on May 13, 2013, 12:02:32 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on May 13, 2013, 09:57:12 AM
Quote from: Rover_0 on May 13, 2013, 12:49:10 AM
Quote from: Lyon Wonder on May 12, 2013, 08:40:24 PM
Maybe US-41 should be truncated to avoid confusion with I-41 after the freeway upgrades in WI are complete, since I-41 is the designation WDOT seems to be going with?  Of course it would require the cooperation of MI since they have a short segment of US-41.  The new northern end of US-41 could be at the interchange with the I-94 Tri-State Tollway just south of the WI border in IL, which provides direct continuity with US-41 and I-41. 

Or, if IDOT doesn't want US-41 and I-41 to be too close since WSDOT wants I-41 co-signed with I-94 into IL, they could push US-41's northern terminus even further south to IN at US-12/20 in Hammond, extend US-14's southern terminus down Lake Shore Drive to US-12/20 and give the at-grade US-41 north of Chicago in Lake County a state route number.

I'd argue that this is one place where I'd hide the US-41 signs and say that "US-41 becomes I-41" for I-41's length It might not work elsewhere (such as on I-/US-74 in NC), but here, it would be perfect.

I wished that they planned this when formulating the Interstate system. I made a thread in Fictional Highways (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=8395.0) about this, and plan to resume it soon.

ISTR that that was in the original mid-20th century I-system discussions, but state-level political ineptness, as well as the cost of upgrading the existing US 41 to standards at that time (a similar situation to the US/CA 99 v. I-5 thing and to which necessary standards upgrades are STILL ongoing!), ended up conspiring to omit it from the map.

This is worth further academic study.


You have a very good point here about a further academic study.  Perhaps the locals felt that since most of the money was free, that it was politically easier simply to build new roads than upgrade old ones.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on May 15, 2013, 02:34:09 PM
Back in the day, Appleton/Oshkosh wasn't that much more populous than Manitowoc/Sheboygan.  That being the case, one might just pick the more direct route for a Milwaukee - Green Bay interstate.

Appleton/Oshkosh has seen its population expand quite a lot in the last 30 years, by comparison.  Being closer together than Manitowoc/Sheboygan probably has helped.  The two cities feed off each other's development.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: tdindy88 on May 15, 2013, 03:27:30 PM
If the weather pans out alright I'll be making a trip to Wisconsin (as I mentioned on another page) this Memorial Day weekend. I'd like to travel up US 41 from Milwaukee to Green Bay and was curious about where the acutal construction is at the moment and what to expect. I understand a good chunk in Brown County is under construction and I think that the Oshkosh area has/had some too. Would this be accurate?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on May 15, 2013, 03:41:44 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 15, 2013, 02:34:09 PM
Back in the day, Appleton/Oshkosh wasn't that much more populous than Manitowoc/Sheboygan.  That being the case, one might just pick the more direct route for a Milwaukee - Green Bay interstate.

Appleton/Oshkosh has seen its population expand quite a lot in the last 30 years, by comparison.  Being closer together than Manitowoc/Sheboygan probably has helped.  The two cities feed off each other's development.


But I-43 wasn't approved until the 1970s.  I don't think the populations of the cities along the respective corridor were that much different than they are now.  If you look at Chris Bessert's summary of I-43, WIDOT wanted it placed along a more direct path...roughly along WI-57.  The feds wanted it to serve more population centers.  My guess is that since by that time, US-41 was four lane divided, there was really no reason to put it there.

I-43:  http://www.wisconsinhighways.org/listings/WiscHwys40-49.html#I-043

Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Big John on May 15, 2013, 04:10:37 PM
Quote from: tdindy88 on May 15, 2013, 03:27:30 PM
If the weather pans out alright I'll be making a trip to Wisconsin (as I mentioned on another page) this Memorial Day weekend. I'd like to travel up US 41 from Milwaukee to Green Bay and was curious about where the acutal construction is at the moment and what to expect. I understand a good chunk in Brown County is under construction and I think that the Oshkosh area has/had some too. Would this be accurate?

Most of the Oshkosh portion is finished with the exception of the Lake Butte des Morts causeway and WI 21 interchange still under construction.

For Brown County, the major parts currently under construction is the south end to south of Oneida St and the WI 29 interchange area (major, and includes WI 29/32 west of 41).
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on May 15, 2013, 09:01:14 PM
Quote from: Big John on May 15, 2013, 04:10:37 PM
Quote from: tdindy88 on May 15, 2013, 03:27:30 PM
If the weather pans out alright I'll be making a trip to Wisconsin (as I mentioned on another page) this Memorial Day weekend. I'd like to travel up US 41 from Milwaukee to Green Bay and was curious about where the acutal construction is at the moment and what to expect. I understand a good chunk in Brown County is under construction and I think that the Oshkosh area has/had some too. Would this be accurate?

Most of the Oshkosh portion is finished with the exception of the Lake Butte des Morts causeway and WI 21 interchange still under construction.

For Brown County, the major parts currently under construction is the south end to south of Oneida St and the WI 29 interchange area (major, and includes WI 29/32 west of 41).

Actually, at the Oshkosh causeway, the WI 21 interchange is complete and open, but the causeway isn't.  Northbound traffic is shifted to the southbound side (two lanes each way).  Crews are currently pouring concrete for the northbound side of the highway and the causeway's northbound bridges are still not complete.  The rest of the project in the Neenah-Oshkosh area is complete and open.

This is the biggest 'big shovel' year for the Green Bay part - crews are currently setting beams for the flyover ramps at the WI 29 'Shawano' interchange, among ooodles of other things.  It is construction-geek heaven there!

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on May 16, 2013, 06:56:44 AM
Green Bay is becoming the third city in Wisconsin to have lamp posts in the median of a freeway as well.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on May 16, 2013, 10:33:22 AM
Quote from: SSOWorld on May 16, 2013, 06:56:44 AM
Green Bay is becoming the third city in Wisconsin to have lamp posts in the median of a freeway as well.

Fourth - Such lighting is on US(I)-41 at the US 45 'Algoma' interchange in Oshkosh, too, and bases for them are in the median of the remainder of that entire recently-rebuilt part of the highway.

:nod:

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on May 16, 2013, 12:29:43 PM
Well in any case this goes against Wisconsin's philosophy of putting up such lighting.  Unless the municipalities wanted them
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Big John on May 16, 2013, 01:14:51 PM
^^^ Does median lighting on the I-43 and WI 172 bridges by Green Bay in the last few years count in the equation?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Jordanah1 on May 16, 2013, 03:30:26 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on May 16, 2013, 10:33:22 AM
Quote from: SSOWorld on May 16, 2013, 06:56:44 AM
Green Bay is becoming the third city in Wisconsin to have lamp posts in the median of a freeway as well.

Fourth - Such lighting is on US(I)-41 at the US 45 'Algoma' interchange in Oshkosh, too, and bases for them are in the median of the remainder of that entire recently-rebuilt part of the highway.
:nod:

Mike
In addition, the entire length of the causeway will have lighting as well.

corrected spelling while i was in there
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Jordanah1 on May 24, 2013, 12:19:28 PM
right now all 4 driving lanes on northbound US41 over lake butte des morts are poured, and they are preparing to pour the inside median, as well as the outside jersey barrier on the main span. they are also pouring some of the segments in between the spans and the paved sections on land. im thinking this project could be done a little ahead of schedule. the project is scheduled to be completed in july.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Revive 755 on June 01, 2013, 10:57:27 PM
Quote from: bulldog1979 on May 12, 2013, 08:54:47 PM
Michigan's segment isn't "short". At just under 280 miles, it's the fifth longest highway in the state. I really doubt MDOT would agree if IDOT and WisDOT asked them to go along with removing the number from the state.

Considering Michigan apparently didn't have any issues with losing US 25 or swapping US 27 with US 127 . . .

Looks to me that it wouldn't be too hard to truncate US 41.  North of M-28 it could be renumbered as an extension of US 141, US 141 to Harvey just becomes M-28, M-67 to US 2 becomes an extension of MI 67, and the section overlapping US 2 becomes just US 2.  There would only be two sections that would need completely new numbers.

Giving the circuitous routing in Michigan, does the route really deserve a single number?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on June 02, 2013, 08:40:20 AM
Quote from: Revive 755 on June 01, 2013, 10:57:27 PM
Quote from: bulldog1979 on May 12, 2013, 08:54:47 PM
Michigan's segment isn't "short". At just under 280 miles, it's the fifth longest highway in the state. I really doubt MDOT would agree if IDOT and WisDOT asked them to go along with removing the number from the state.

Considering Michigan apparently didn't have any issues with losing US 25 or swapping US 27 with US 127 . . .

Looks to me that it wouldn't be too hard to truncate US 41.  North of M-28 it could be renumbered as an extension of US 141, US 141 to Harvey just becomes M-28, M-67 to US 2 becomes an extension of MI 67, and the section overlapping US 2 becomes just US 2.  There would only be two sections that would need completely new numbers.

Giving the circuitous routing in Michigan, does the route really deserve a single number?


US-25 was eliminated in 1974...a whole generation ago.

The US-127 redesignation was initiated by Michigan so it really isn't a great example either.

As to whether or not US-41 "deserves" a single route number, I am not sure I have heard that reasoning to eliminate a USH previously.  It wouldn't be hard to change it...but it really isn't all that "hard" to change any route number.  The real question is "how would changing it help with navigation?"
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: NE2 on June 02, 2013, 09:04:17 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 02, 2013, 08:40:20 AM
The real question is "how would changing it help with navigation?"
Moving 41 onto 141 would make it clearer which route to Houghton is better. Whatever replaces existing US 41 would end at Marquette.

Incidentally, 41 was originally planned to cut directly north from Powers-Spalding to Marquette, and 141 was 102 (only north of 2).
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on June 02, 2013, 10:21:35 AM
Quote from: NE2 on June 02, 2013, 09:04:17 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 02, 2013, 08:40:20 AM
The real question is "how would changing it help with navigation?"
Moving 41 onto 141 would make it clearer which route to Houghton is better. Whatever replaces existing US 41 would end at Marquette.

Incidentally, 41 was originally planned to cut directly north from Powers-Spalding to Marquette, and 141 was 102 (only north of 2).


Changing long-standing route numbers rarely helps navigation.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on June 07, 2013, 12:01:44 PM
media advisory from DOT:

Media invited to opening for new Lake Butte Des Morts Causeway!
WisDOT June 11 ribbon cutting held on the bridge.

(Green Bay) The Wisconsin Department of Transportation (WisDOT), along with the West Side Association, is announcing a celebration and ribbon cutting for the new Lake Butte des Morts Causeway. State, local and tribal dignitaries will help open the driving lanes.

When:           1 p.m. Tuesday, June 11
Where:            New northbound US 41 causeway traffic lanes, Lake Butte Des Morts Bridge, Oshkosh (Please see attached parking map for further details)

The celebration will include remarks by Transportation Secretary Mark Gottlieb, P.E., Wisconsin Tribal Representative Dave Grignon, and Oshkosh Chamber President John Casper.  Following the brief ceremony and ribbon cutting, individual media interviews will be made available, including lead engineers and designers for the structure.

All lanes will be open in a few weeks, but the bike-pedestrian recreational trail across the causeway and fishing access on Lake Butte des Morts will not be complete until fall. Please see www.us41wisconsin.gov for bridge and construction details.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on June 13, 2013, 09:47:07 AM
Here's the coverage of the above note:
http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/fox_cities/ribbon-cutting-held-for-expanded-lake-butte-des-morts-causeway
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Big John on June 13, 2013, 01:18:33 PM
Quote from: Fox 11 News on June 13, 2013, 09:47:07 AM
Here's the coverage of the above note:
http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/fox_cities/ribbon-cutting-held-for-expanded-lake-butte-des-morts-causeway
Did the project manager really say it was going from two to six lanes?  It was four lanes prior to construction.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on June 13, 2013, 02:44:37 PM
Quote from: Big John on June 13, 2013, 01:18:33 PM
Quote from: Fox 11 News on June 13, 2013, 09:47:07 AM
Here's the coverage of the above note:
http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/fox_cities/ribbon-cutting-held-for-expanded-lake-butte-des-morts-causeway
Did the project manager really say it was going from two to six lanes?  It was four lanes prior to construction.

Well, before about 1968, it was a two-lane low-level crossing with a bascule drawspan in the middle.  Traffic delays there were the stuff of legend, especially on holiday weekends.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on June 13, 2013, 04:31:36 PM
Quote from: Big John on June 13, 2013, 01:18:33 PM
Quote from: Fox 11 News on June 13, 2013, 09:47:07 AM
Here's the coverage of the above note:
http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/fox_cities/ribbon-cutting-held-for-expanded-lake-butte-des-morts-causeway
Did the project manager really say it was going from two to six lanes?  It was four lanes prior to construction.
yes, yes he did...
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: DaBigE on June 16, 2013, 06:15:52 PM
Driver's eye view of the Green Bay-area 41 construction courtesy of the Green Bay Press-Gazette: http://bcove.me/zb6vyn1s (http://bcove.me/zb6vyn1s)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on July 02, 2013, 11:29:48 AM
Quote from: Molandfreak on February 12, 2013, 11:46:21 AM
Quote from: Anthony_JK on February 12, 2013, 11:29:33 AM
Personally, if I had my druthers, I'd terminate I-41 at the Hale Interchange, and also get rid of the I-894 concurrence entirely. That eliminates the "east of I-43" problem south of Milwaukee quite nicely. Why extend it just to truncate it at the IL border??
Or the Zoo interchange which eliminates the wrong-way concurrency, and have I-43 by itself on the east-west portion of I-894.

It sounds like WISDOT is keeping I-894 signed, as it is well-known (nobody calls the Greenfield portion I-43 anyways) and serves as an effective I-94 bypass around the city. The I-41/43 wrong-way concurrency is quite humorous, too.


Quote from: GeekJedi on February 12, 2013, 02:57:32 PM
"Current US 41 from I-94 at the Miller Park interchange to the interchange with US 45 will be re-numbered to a state highway."

My vote?  Extend WI-175 and terminate it at WI-59.  It eliminates the "phantom" WI-341 and prevents another short, random highway.  It's an obvious "natural" extension.

It could conceivably be either WIS 341 or 175. WIS 341 makes sense, as it could compliment WIS 241 as a 'historic' route of US 41. Resigning Stadium/Lisbon/Appleton as WIS 175 probably makes more sense, as Appleton already carries that designation northwest of US 45, and is set to be turned over to local control in Washington County, truncating WIS 175 to pretty much Menomonee Falls. Signing the whole thing south to National Av. as WIS 175 means fewer new signs. My prediction is WIS 175, mostly for the cost factor.

Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 12, 2013, 09:05:38 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on February 11, 2013, 10:59:41 PM
As for the road itself, is US 45 really interstate standard north of the Zoo interchange?  The hills and curves don't seem up to par.

It's fine north of North Ave.  South of there is about to be reconstructed so it's not going to matter in a few years.  The curve & hills associated with the railroad overpass between North Ave. and Mayfair Rd. are definitely substandard.  But the fix is in the pipeline so good enough for me.


US 45 from Milwaukee County through to Washington County (to the West Bend split) was brought up to Interstate standards about a decade ago, with repaving, rebuilding, widening and shoulder work (it was around the time of the reconstruction of the Good Hope/WIS 145 interchange). I've seen far more extreme curves and hills on other interstates (Plainfield Curve, anyone?). The only question mark is the arched pedestrian bridge just north of Center St. It is the only bridge over the freeway that has a height warning on it (it's 14 ft. on the ends). If the FHA has a problem with it, the bridge can easily be removed. But considering the massive amount of heavy truck traffic on that section of the freeway, I'm sure the whole thing was sorted out a long time ago.

Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 13, 2013, 08:57:11 AM
Quote from: Lyon Wonder on May 12, 2013, 08:40:24 PM
Maybe US-41 should be truncated to avoid confusion with I-41 after the freeway upgrades in WI are complete, since I-41 is the designation WDOT seems to be going with?  Of course it would require the cooperation of MI since they have a short segment of US-41.  The new northern end of US-41 could be at the interchange with the I-94 Tri-State Tollway just south of the WI border in IL, which provides direct continuity with US-41 and I-41. 

I don't think there will be any confusion whatsoever.  US-41 will disappear...it will be replaced with I-41...and then reappear north of Green Bay.  Same number, same highway with just a different color shield.  Most of the travelling public will take it in stride.

It will likely be a hidden concurrency, similar to ones I've seen in Minnesota. US 41 goes hidden at the Illinois border and picks up again past Green Bay. The numbering of I-41 does make for an easy transition. Running it to the border makes it less likely they'll have to renumber as many exits.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on July 02, 2013, 11:58:35 AM
Quote from: FightingIrish on July 02, 2013, 11:29:48 AM
Quote from: GeekJedi on February 12, 2013, 02:57:32 PM
"Current US 41 from I-94 at the Miller Park interchange to the interchange with US 45 will be re-numbered to a state highway."

My vote?  Extend WI-175 and terminate it at WI-59.  It eliminates the "phantom" WI-341 and prevents another short, random highway.  It's an obvious "natural" extension.

It could conceivably be either WIS 341 or 175. WIS 341 makes sense, as it could compliment WIS 241 as a 'historic' route of US 41. Resigning Stadium/Lisbon/Appleton as WIS 175 probably makes more sense, as Appleton already carries that designation northwest of US 45, and is set to be turned over to local control in Washington County, truncating WIS 175 to pretty much Menomonee Falls. Signing the whole thing south to National Av. as WIS 175 means fewer new signs. My prediction is WIS 175, mostly for the cost factor.

I hadn't heard about that planned turnback.  When will this happen and how far north will it go, all the way to US 151 (less the parts that are combined with other state highways)?  What about the north end of WI 83 (will it then be a 'hanging' end)?  What will it then be designated as (my vote - County 'YT' for 'Yellowstone Trail')?

BTW, welcome abroad!

:wave:

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Jordanah1 on July 02, 2013, 12:01:50 PM
An update on the construction progress.
Northbound US41 traffic is now using right two lanes from witzel ave all the way to the causeway, and are using the center two lanes over the causeway. The median barriers along the entire construction stretch from witzel to US45 are nearly complete, with only a handful of 5-6foot sections remaining where light pole bases are being installed. The light poles have arrived and as of yesterday are still on a truck, and some of the overhead signs have been installed, while the rest remain near the median. The causeway and other nearby sections should be done within 2 weeks if guess, as the WI 21 overpass still needs some paint, and once the temporary barriers are removed from southbound US 41 the final striping can be done.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on July 02, 2013, 12:26:30 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on July 02, 2013, 11:58:35 AM
Quote from: FightingIrish on July 02, 2013, 11:29:48 AM
Quote from: GeekJedi on February 12, 2013, 02:57:32 PM
"Current US 41 from I-94 at the Miller Park interchange to the interchange with US 45 will be re-numbered to a state highway."

My vote?  Extend WI-175 and terminate it at WI-59.  It eliminates the "phantom" WI-341 and prevents another short, random highway.  It's an obvious "natural" extension.

It could conceivably be either WIS 341 or 175. WIS 341 makes sense, as it could compliment WIS 241 as a 'historic' route of US 41. Resigning Stadium/Lisbon/Appleton as WIS 175 probably makes more sense, as Appleton already carries that designation northwest of US 45, and is set to be turned over to local control in Washington County, truncating WIS 175 to pretty much Menomonee Falls. Signing the whole thing south to National Av. as WIS 175 means fewer new signs. My prediction is WIS 175, mostly for the cost factor.

I hadn't heard about that planned turnback.  When will this happen and how far north will it go, all the way to US 151 (less the parts that are combined with other state highways)?  What about the north end of WI 83 (will it then be a 'hanging' end)?  What will it then be designated as (my vote - County 'YT' for 'Yellowstone Trail')?

BTW, welcome abroad!

:wave:

Mike


You could easily extend WI-83 along WI-175 to WI-33 in Allenton...about three miles.

Or end it at WI-60 in downtown Hartford too.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on July 02, 2013, 02:13:43 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on July 02, 2013, 11:58:35 AM
Quote from: FightingIrish on July 02, 2013, 11:29:48 AM
Quote from: GeekJedi on February 12, 2013, 02:57:32 PM
"Current US 41 from I-94 at the Miller Park interchange to the interchange with US 45 will be re-numbered to a state highway."

My vote?  Extend WI-175 and terminate it at WI-59.  It eliminates the "phantom" WI-341 and prevents another short, random highway.  It's an obvious "natural" extension.

It could conceivably be either WIS 341 or 175. WIS 341 makes sense, as it could compliment WIS 241 as a 'historic' route of US 41. Resigning Stadium/Lisbon/Appleton as WIS 175 probably makes more sense, as Appleton already carries that designation northwest of US 45, and is set to be turned over to local control in Washington County, truncating WIS 175 to pretty much Menomonee Falls. Signing the whole thing south to National Av. as WIS 175 means fewer new signs. My prediction is WIS 175, mostly for the cost factor.

I hadn't heard about that planned turnback.  When will this happen and how far north will it go, all the way to US 151 (less the parts that are combined with other state highways)?  What about the north end of WI 83 (will it then be a 'hanging' end)?  What will it then be designated as (my vote - County 'YT' for 'Yellowstone Trail')?

BTW, welcome abroad!

:wave:

Mike

Thank ya!  :wave:

This is where I saw the information about WIS 175:

http://www.wisconsinhighways.org/listings/WiscHwys170-179.html#STH-175

I assume they'll end it either at the 41/45 intersection with County Line Rd. or the next exit, Lannon Rd., if they want to extend WIS 175 past the new retail development and the new Walmart.

Between WIS 83 and WIS 33 is a no-brainer. Easy to make it WIS 83.

The convenient thing about decommissioning WIS 175 in Washington County is that they could simply reuse the signs for a new Milwaukee renumbering. :)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on July 02, 2013, 02:48:13 PM
Oh that's Chris Bessert's page...it hasn't been updated in over four years.  But he posts around here so he might have more info.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on July 02, 2013, 05:40:39 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on July 02, 2013, 02:48:13 PM
Oh that's Chris Bessert's page...it hasn't been updated in over four years.  But he posts around here so he might have more info.

Seems like many of the road sites haven't been updated in years, except this one. Kurumi looks the same as it did ten years ago.  Nonetheless, some pretty detailed information.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on July 02, 2013, 07:56:04 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on July 02, 2013, 05:40:39 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on July 02, 2013, 02:48:13 PM
Oh that's Chris Bessert's page...it hasn't been updated in over four years.  But he posts around here so he might have more info.

Seems like many of the road sites haven't been updated in years, except this one. Kurumi looks the same as it did ten years ago.  Nonetheless, some pretty detailed information.

I have noticed the same thing.  I wonder if part of it is that people go to wikipedia for a lot of that information now.

Fixed quote -Alex
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: vtk on July 02, 2013, 08:17:17 PM
When you hit the "quote" button, make sure you scroll all the way down in the quick-reply box before you start typing your reply.  As you've learned the hard way, it's easy to just start typing after the first [/quote] you see, which is sometimes still in the middle of a larger quote which causes the problem.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Joe The Dragon on July 03, 2013, 01:41:22 PM
Now IF it becomes I-41 should I-294 become I-41?? It was once U.S. Highway 41 Toll
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Brandon on July 03, 2013, 01:44:14 PM
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on July 03, 2013, 01:41:22 PM
Now IF it becomes I-41 should I-294 become I-41?? It was once U.S. Highway 41 Toll

That's good for a laugh.  IDOT will end I-41 at the border, and I just don't see ISTHA interested in it.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on July 03, 2013, 02:15:24 PM
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on July 03, 2013, 01:41:22 PM
Now IF it becomes I-41 should I-294 become I-41?? It was once U.S. Highway 41 Toll

Illinois was the party that put the brakes on a proposal to rename it I-55. Mainly because they didn't want to put up any more I-55 signs on their side. They sure as hell aren't going to renumbered I-294. Plus, there's that whole Lake Shore Drive thing.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Molandfreak on July 03, 2013, 05:01:53 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on July 03, 2013, 02:15:24 PM
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on July 03, 2013, 01:41:22 PM
Now IF it becomes I-41 should I-294 become I-41?? It was once U.S. Highway 41 Toll

Illinois was the party that put the brakes on a proposal to rename it I-55. Mainly because they didn't want to put up any more I-55 signs on their side. They sure as hell aren't going to renumbered I-294. Plus, there's that whole Lake Shore Drive thing.
Uhh... They sure might.

Quote from: Revive 755 on December 06, 2012, 07:27:17 PM
Rumor through an IDOT employee has it IDOT will be signing I-41 for the short overlap with I-94, though there is the off chance there could be a push to extend the I-41 designation in the future.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: english si on July 03, 2013, 05:19:24 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on December 06, 2012, 07:27:17 PM
Rumor through an IDOT employee has it IDOT will be signing I-41 for the short overlap with I-94, though there is the off chance there could be a push to extend the I-41 designation in the future.
Given I-94 is to be renumbered I-69, they might as well have it terminate in Millwaukee ;)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Molandfreak on July 03, 2013, 08:52:12 PM
Quote from: english si on July 03, 2013, 05:19:24 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on December 06, 2012, 07:27:17 PM
Rumor through an IDOT employee has it IDOT will be signing I-41 for the short overlap with I-94, though there is the off chance there could be a push to extend the I-41 designation in the future.
Given I-94 is to be renumbered I-69, they might as well have it terminate in Millwaukee ;)
what
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on July 03, 2013, 09:00:57 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on July 03, 2013, 08:52:12 PM
Quote from: english si on July 03, 2013, 05:19:24 PM
Given I-94 is to be renumbered I-69, they might as well have it terminate in Millwaukee ;)
what

I-94 from Chicago to Detroit is 'technically' part of all that I-69 bollocks, according to the legislation.  It can be I-69Q. :lol


There are many more Wisconsin state highways worth turning back before WI 175.  That was all speculation on Chris Bessert's part.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: english si on July 04, 2013, 03:55:06 AM
sorry, I wasn't clear as to what might terminate in Millwaukee - I-94, with I-41 being sole (interstate) designation from I-43 down to I-90.

though, of course, I was being facetious.
Quote from: triplemultiplex on July 03, 2013, 09:00:57 PMI-94 from Chicago to Detroit is 'technically' part of all that I-69 bollocks, according to the legislation.  It can be I-69Q. :lol
Or I-69Z, with the 6 'accidentally' tiny on every sign and the Z looking like a 2...

Shame that 4 doesn't have a clear letter replacement.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Avalanchez71 on July 04, 2013, 02:16:23 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 02, 2013, 10:21:35 AM
Quote from: NE2 on June 02, 2013, 09:04:17 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 02, 2013, 08:40:20 AM
The real question is "how would changing it help with navigation?"
Moving 41 onto 141 would make it clearer which route to Houghton is better. Whatever replaces existing US 41 would end at Marquette.

Incidentally, 41 was originally planned to cut directly north from Powers-Spalding to Marquette, and 141 was 102 (only north of 2).
Changing long-standing route numbers rarely helps navigation.
US 27 called, they want back in MI.
Title: About the weight limit issue....
Post by: mgk920 on July 05, 2013, 05:12:40 PM
...legislation has now been introduced in Congress to address that.

"Petri, Ribble propose legislation allowing existing trucks to use the future I-41

--------

Written by
Tabitha Cassidy
Post-Crescent Media

    Filed Under

    Local News

The much-anticipated conversion of U.S. 41 to Interstate 41 is due to occur early next year, but there's a potential fly in the ointment.

Federal law forbids trucks weighing more than 80,000 pounds to use interstates, except in extenuating circumstances. That requirement was placed on semitrailers in 1991. The reasoning at the time was the concern that heavier trucks would damage the highways and bridges they were using to transport goods.

Trucks presently operating on U.S. 41 can weigh up to 97,000 pounds, prompting U.S. Reps. Reid Ribble, R-Sherwood, and Tom Petri, R-Fond du Lac, to propose legislation that allow the heavier trucks to continue to operate on that stretch of interstate highway between Green Bay and the Wisconsin/Illinois border...."

(see link for rest of article)

http://www.postcrescent.com/article/20130704/APC0101/306200397

(The image in the article is of US(I)-41, looking southward towards WI 15 (Northland Ave) from Capitol Dr in the Appleton area.  The six lanes starts on the other side of this interchange.)

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on July 05, 2013, 09:15:04 PM
One additional item here is that a big-rig that is over the normal weight limit must have a special permit from WisDOT.  For example, on southbound US 45 (I-41), just after you go past Appleton Ave (US 41/WI 175 - interchange 47A) on the City of Milwaukee's far northwest side, is this sign: http://goo.gl/maps/9cHiF (That's Florist Ave crossing the freeway right there), followed shortly thereafter by this sign (that's Silver Spring Dr - interchange 46 in the background): http://goo.gl/maps/LN11r .  They tell drivers of those rigs that that's as far as they can legally go on that freeway.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on July 06, 2013, 11:40:09 PM
Those signs are posted at all incoming Milwaukee Freeways Mike - even the interstates themselves - They do not have anything to do with the weight limits.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on July 11, 2013, 08:59:08 AM
I really see only 2 possibilities when it comes to current US41 in Milwaukee County. I agree with those that say it will be signed as WIS 175 because at the Appleton Avenue interchange the 175 designation would just in theory continue southeastward, and end at National Ave (WIS 59). WIS 341 is only 1 mile long, and should really just be absorbed by 175, but the other possibility is that they "lengthen" WIS 341 by following "Old 41" up the Stadium and then Appleton Ave. I would really only see this option if they are figuring on upgrading this route but let's face it, with all the NIMBY's in the Milwaukee area that nixed as many of the planned freeways as they did in the 1970's, I could see them deconstructing the Stadium over upgrading it, and turning it into an "urban boulevard". Regardless, I would guess 175 over 341. Let's save 341 for a potential interstate spur, such as US 45 from the Richfield Interchange to West Bend, as this current section in Milwaukee will never see "interstate light of day", so to speak.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on July 11, 2013, 09:47:18 AM
Quote from: merrycilantro on July 11, 2013, 08:59:08 AM
I really see only 2 possibilities when it comes to current US41 in Milwaukee County. I agree with those that say it will be signed as WIS 175 because at the Appleton Avenue interchange the 175 designation would just in theory continue southeastward, and end at National Ave (WIS 59). WIS 341 is only 1 mile long, and should really just be absorbed by 175, but the other possibility is that they "lengthen" WIS 341 by following "Old 41" up the Stadium and then Appleton Ave. I would really only see this option if they are figuring on upgrading this route but let's face it, with all the NIMBY's in the Milwaukee area that nixed as many of the planned freeways as they did in the 1970's, I could see them deconstructing the Stadium over upgrading it, and turning it into an "urban boulevard". Regardless, I would guess 175 over 341. Let's save 341 for a potential interstate spur, such as US 45 from the Richfield Interchange to West Bend, as this current section in Milwaukee will never see "interstate light of day", so to speak.


There is absolutely no reason to upgrade anything along the current US-41 route on the north side of Milwaukee County.  The Stadium Freeway was a bad idea then, and it is a bad idea now.

Extending WI-175 over US-41 and WI-341 makes the most sense.  (I argued for that when they removed US-41 from the streets on the south side of the County years ago.)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on July 11, 2013, 10:00:36 AM
I agree, Milwaukee needs a northern Bypass over a mid-county Stadium Freeway...or something like a northern bypass...since the only thing it'd get really is an upgraded WIS 60, but that's another thread. Oh, and perhaps another Western Bypass (Think WIS 164) from future I-41 to...well, I-94/41 around say Racine, with the reasoning being all the development in Waukesha County. Since there's no plans to extend the freeway in the future, I'd be on board with decommission. That is an instance where an "urban boulevard" would be acceptible (not Former Mayor John Norquist's dream of diverting I-94 onto I-894 and turning old I-94 into the urban boulevard) But I digress...

Does anybody have information about the I-69 Chicago issue I've been reading where portions of I-94 are being designated as *don't quote me* spurs of I-69? I've read that on this thread and gotten confused by it, like is 69 being substituted on 94?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on July 11, 2013, 10:12:25 AM
Quote from: merrycilantro on July 11, 2013, 08:59:08 AM
I really see only 2 possibilities when it comes to current US41 in Milwaukee County. I agree with those that say it will be signed as WIS 175 because at the Appleton Avenue interchange the 175 designation would just in theory continue southeastward, and end at National Ave (WIS 59). WIS 341 is only 1 mile long, and should really just be absorbed by 175, but the other possibility is that they "lengthen" WIS 341 by following "Old 41" up the Stadium and then Appleton Ave. I would really only see this option if they are figuring on upgrading this route but let's face it, with all the NIMBY's in the Milwaukee area that nixed as many of the planned freeways as they did in the 1970's, I could see them deconstructing the Stadium over upgrading it, and turning it into an "urban boulevard". Regardless, I would guess 175 over 341. Let's save 341 for a potential interstate spur, such as US 45 from the Richfield Interchange to West Bend, as this current section in Milwaukee will never see "interstate light of day", so to speak.

The Stadium Freeway, like the Fond Du Lac Freeway (STH 145) is a stump highway that never got finished. Nonetheless, I see no reason to dismantle it. It still carries significant traffic to the north side, though that traffic does bottleneck on Lisbon between there and Appleton Av. But in its current form, it does carry traffic quickly from North Av to I-94, Miller Park and West Milwaukee, which no other freeway around there doesn't do. Besides, given the hilly terrain going down into the Menomonee Valley, I just can't see an urban boulevard working. Might as well keep it as a freeway.

They should have finished the Fond Du Lac freeway years ago, and perhaps done a northern bypass (along the Good Hope Rd. corridor or farther north). But that won't happen, as most of those areas have already been redeveloped (aside from the barren land on the southern end of Fond Du Lac Blvd.

As for the other stump freeway, the Park East, they were right to tear that down. That was pretty useless in its truncated form, and gave the city a big section of land to redevelop.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: vtk on July 11, 2013, 10:18:03 AM
Quote from: merrycilantro on July 11, 2013, 10:00:36 AM
Does anybody have information about the I-69 Chicago issue I've been reading where portions of I-94 are being designated as *don't quote me* spurs of I-69? I've read that on this thread and gotten confused by it, like is 69 being substituted on 94?

<offtopic>

I-94 from Chicago to Detroit is officially part of the I-69 corridor for some reason.  The law says it must be signed as I-69.  FHWA, AASHTO, and the state highway agencies involved are ignoring this, because no sane person will complain if things stay as they are.

Where this requirement can't be ignored is in Texas.  All three branches of the corridor must be signed I-69, according to this law.  It would be particularly noticeable, especially to congressmen who represent the region, not to have Interstate signs go up here.  But three I-69s signed identically (as the law requires) is also problematic.  This is why there's I-69E, I-69C, and presumably soon I-69W. 

</offtopic>
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on July 14, 2013, 12:02:47 PM
Just checking the WisDOT freeway cammies, I see that all of the bandages have been removed from NB US(I)-41 at the Oshkosh Causeway (Big Lake Butte des Morts crossing), allowing full unrestricted travel, and that southbound only needs the rest of the striping to be completed for the same (likely by late Monday or Tuesday), completing the six-lane upgrade project for the Winnebago County part of the highway!

:cool:

:cheers:

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: DaBigE on July 14, 2013, 09:37:08 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on July 14, 2013, 12:02:47 PM
Just checking the WisDOT freeway cammies, I see that all of the bandages have been removed from NB US(I)-41 at the Oshkosh Causeway (Big Lake Butte des Morts crossing), allowing full unrestricted travel, and that southbound only needs the rest of the striping to be completed for the same (likely by late Monday or Tuesday), completing the six-lane upgrade project for the Winnebago County part of the highway!

:cool:

:cheers:

Mike

That's correct. :nod:  I just drove that area yesterday (NB) and today (SB). Also the first time I've seen the new arrow/lane signs installed in WI (and not just in blueprint form)...I got mixed feelings about 'em. Seems like a lot of wasted space/extra sign area/expense for what seems to be redundant information.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Jordanah1 on July 14, 2013, 09:58:13 PM
They are doing some landscaping on the west side if the causeway. I'm guessing a few more days until they are done. I commute over the causeway just about everyday, so I have had the privilege of watching this all come together!
Title: Progress in Congress (that great oxymoron....)
Post by: mgk920 on July 16, 2013, 01:13:19 PM
WASHINGTON – U.S. 41 trucking legislation is virtually barreling through Congress.

A House bill introduced a few weeks ago by U.S. Reps. Tom Petri, R-Fond du Lac, and Reid Ribble, R-Sherwood, is scheduled for committee markup Thursday. The Wisconsin Republicans plan to push for action by the full House immediately afterward.

The legislation would allow trucks currently using the highway to continue driving on it, regardless of weight, after it becomes a federal interstate. Federal law prohibits trucks weighing more than 80,000 pounds on interstate highways.

[ . . . ]

http://www.postcrescent.com/article/20130715/APC0101/307150448

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on July 16, 2013, 02:08:12 PM
Quote from: DaBigE on July 14, 2013, 09:37:08 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on July 14, 2013, 12:02:47 PM
Just checking the WisDOT freeway cammies, I see that all of the bandages have been removed from NB US(I)-41 at the Oshkosh Causeway (Big Lake Butte des Morts crossing), allowing full unrestricted travel, and that southbound only needs the rest of the striping to be completed for the same (likely by late Monday or Tuesday), completing the six-lane upgrade project for the Winnebago County part of the highway!

:cool:

:cheers:

Mike

That's correct. :nod:  I just drove that area yesterday (NB) and today (SB). Also the first time I've seen the new arrow/lane signs installed in WI (and not just in blueprint form)...I got mixed feelings about 'em. Seems like a lot of wasted space/extra sign area/expense for what seems to be redundant information.

Looks like the highway is fully open now - see: http://www.511wi.gov/Web/Cameras.aspx?countyfilter=Winnebago then scroll down to "US 41 @ US 45".

The path on the east side of the highway, as well as the landscaping, will be completed in fall.

:clap:

BTW, WisDOT installed similar 'arrow' signs (prescribed in the latest federal MUTCD) on US(I)-41 between College Ave (WI 125) and Wisconsin Ave (WI 96) here in the Appleton area last year, too.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Big John on July 16, 2013, 02:29:48 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on July 16, 2013, 02:08:12 PM


Looks like the highway is fully open now - see: http://www.511wi.gov/Web/Cameras.aspx?countyfilter=Winnebago then scroll down to "US 41 @ US 45".

The path on the east side of the highway, as well as the landscaping, will be completed in fall.

:clap:


Mike

And back to 65 MPH in all of Winnebago County

http://www.us41wisconsin.gov/flex/NewsUS41LBDMbridge130716.1205 (http://www.us41wisconsin.gov/flex/NewsUS41LBDMbridge130716.1205)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Jordanah1 on July 16, 2013, 03:04:29 PM
next up in Winnebago county is the reconstruction of the HWY G overpass http://us41wisconsin.gov/flex/MediaAlert_CtyGoverpass_7813.1201
its my understanding that CTY G, GG, and Y will all be reconstructed within the next 4-5 years, though I was under the assumption that they may be widened, at least so they have shoulders, if not being 4 lanes wide should the roads connecting to them be upgraded to 4 lanes. however, it appears that the CTY G overass is only getting a redecking.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: DaBigE on July 17, 2013, 01:14:54 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on July 16, 2013, 02:08:12 PM
BTW, WisDOT installed similar 'arrow' signs (prescribed in the latest federal MUTCD) on US(I)-41 between College Ave (WI 125) and Wisconsin Ave (WI 96) here in the Appleton area last year, too.

I remember looking at the plansheets for those when they went out for letting. Unintentionally, I skipped that segment of 41 when I was in Appleton...got off at Prospect coming into town (for the Pierce Manufacturing anniversary celebration), got back on at Wisconsin Ave when heading home.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on July 19, 2013, 11:34:35 AM
A few days late, but story on US41 in Oshkosh opening:
http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/fox_cities/all-lanes-of-us-41-in-winnebago-co-open

And story on repairs to the Scheuring Road overpass:
http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/green_bay/scheuring-road-bridge-repairs?ref=scroller&categoryId=30377&status=true
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on July 20, 2013, 12:33:16 AM
Quote from: Fox 11 News on July 19, 2013, 11:34:35 AM
A few days late, but story on US41 in Oshkosh opening:
http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/fox_cities/all-lanes-of-us-41-in-winnebago-co-open

I note that there is a segment in there with video of a sped-up drive across the causeway (southbound) - VERY RoadGeeky™!

:nod:

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Revive 755 on July 20, 2013, 10:50:24 PM
I've been wondering lately that given the construction on I-94 in Illinois at the split with US 41 and because the construction will requiring placing new overhead signs if Illinois will end up signing I-41 before Wisconsin does.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on July 21, 2013, 11:48:43 AM
Quote from: Revive 755 on July 20, 2013, 10:50:24 PM
I've been wondering lately that given the construction on I-94 in Illinois at the split with US 41 and because the construction will requiring placing new overhead signs if Illinois will end up signing I-41 before Wisconsin does.

Well, the bill to 'grandfather' US 41's big-rig weight limits is finding little resistance in Congress, so early to mid 2014 sounds likely in Wisconsin.  Maybe IDOT will leave blank spaces in their relevant BGSes for the shields to go.  OTOH, one '[US 41] follow [I-41]' sign by the northbound merge, an 'END/I-41' sign by the southbound split and a couple of reassurance signs wouldn't take long nor cost all that much to put in.  It also doesn't take all that long to drill out some rivets in order to modify a BGS.

I'd be interested in seeing how it will be signed by the interchange on Russell Rd.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on July 21, 2013, 11:56:19 AM
Do we have definitive word that US-41 will "disappear" between the IL border and Green Bay? 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on July 21, 2013, 12:26:54 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on July 21, 2013, 11:56:19 AM
Do we have definitive word that US-41 will "disappear" between the IL border and Green Bay?

Nothing definitive, but from what I'm seeing regarding WisDOT's signing practices, especially with BGSes, my best guess is that US 41 will be 'hidden'.  Note that there is no reserved blank space on any of their signs, even the newest BGSes on the Oshkosh Causeway, for additional route shields.  I'm looking for crews to drill out the rivets holding the 'US' signs on and swap them for 'I' signs when that time comes.

Contrast this to what MODOT did for signing on US 71 before it became I-49.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on July 22, 2013, 12:45:39 AM
don't forget this Mike...

(https://farm7.staticflickr.com/6015/6204982929_8cb5d54f70.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ssoworld/6204982929/)
WausauRM_Us10SignGoof2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ssoworld/6204982929/) by ssoworld (http://www.flickr.com/people/ssoworld/), on Flickr
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on July 22, 2013, 11:14:38 AM
So, when US 41 (Appleton Av) in Milwaukee gets resigned as a different route, does that mean that they'll uproot this classic sign?

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs14.postimg.org%2Faah2vxykx%2FCopy_of_IMG_20130722_094609.jpg&hash=9f3dde2728527a977235ec0ce7d984ff88d91a84)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: agentsteel53 on July 22, 2013, 11:21:11 AM
Quote from: FightingIrish on July 22, 2013, 11:14:38 AM
So, when US 41 (Appleton Av) in Milwaukee gets resigned as a different route, does that mean that they'll uproot this classic sign?


that street appears to be under city maintenance.  the sign is so old that it appears the state has forgotten about it.  it likely will not be replaced as part of a state-highway renumbering, but rather when the City of Milwaukee next decides to make improvements to the street.

there are some straggler US-16 shields on county roads in Wisconsin which fall into the same category: forgotten by the state, ignored by the city or county.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on July 22, 2013, 01:47:54 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 22, 2013, 11:21:11 AM
Quote from: FightingIrish on July 22, 2013, 11:14:38 AM
So, when US 41 (Appleton Av) in Milwaukee gets resigned as a different route, does that mean that they'll uproot this classic sign?


that street appears to be under city maintenance.  the sign is so old that it appears the state has forgotten about it.  it likely will not be replaced as part of a state-highway renumbering, but rather when the City of Milwaukee next decides to make improvements to the street.

there are some straggler US-16 shields on county roads in Wisconsin which fall into the same category: forgotten by the state, ignored by the city or county.

Yes, it is a city-maintained street (91st St.). And that section underwent a massive reconstruction last year (the mess has now moved south to Capitol Dr.). I hope the sign stays, as I always appreciate a classic.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on July 22, 2013, 02:05:35 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on July 21, 2013, 11:48:43 AM
Quote from: Revive 755 on July 20, 2013, 10:50:24 PM
I've been wondering lately that given the construction on I-94 in Illinois at the split with US 41 and because the construction will requiring placing new overhead signs if Illinois will end up signing I-41 before Wisconsin does.

Well, the bill to 'grandfather' US 41's big-rig weight limits is finding little resistance in Congress, so early to mid 2014 sounds likely in Wisconsin.  Maybe IDOT will leave blank spaces in their relevant BGSes for the shields to go.  OTOH, one '[US 41] follow [I-41]' sign by the northbound merge, an 'END/I-41' sign by the southbound split and a couple of reassurance signs wouldn't take long nor cost all that much to put in.  It also doesn't take all that long to drill out some rivets in order to modify a BGS.

I'd be interested in seeing how it will be signed by the interchange on Russell Rd.

Mike

Now it's on its way to a House and Senate vote within the next few weeks. If, by chance it does not pass, WISDOT will not put up I-41 signs, so as to allow heavier trucks on the highways. I'm pretty sure it will pass.

http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/wisconsin/interstate-41-weight-limit-bill-passes-house-committee

...Passage of the so-called grandfathering legislation is the first of three crucial steps that must be taken before the highway-interstate conversion can be approved. State transportation officials also have to complete and submit an environmental impact report and then finalize an agreement with the Federal Highway Administration.

The Wisconsin Department of Transportation plans to hold public hearings on a draft environmental report on Sept. 10, 11 and 12, and finalize the report by early October, according to the agency's project manager, Tammy Rabe.


If all goes according to plan (and it should), conversion will be approved late this year or early next year.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20130716/GPG0101/307160325/Bipartisan-bill-U-S-41-truck-allowance-advances-through-Congress
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on July 22, 2013, 02:32:11 PM
Its a wonder what they spend our tax dollars on...
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on July 22, 2013, 06:43:17 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on July 22, 2013, 02:32:11 PM
Its a wonder what they spend our tax dollars on...

Like what? F-22's?  Corn subsidies?  Health care for poor people?

Stay on topic, dude.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on July 22, 2013, 07:44:53 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 22, 2013, 11:21:11 AM
Quote from: FightingIrish on July 22, 2013, 11:14:38 AM
So, when US 41 (Appleton Av) in Milwaukee gets resigned as a different route, does that mean that they'll uproot this classic sign?


that street appears to be under city maintenance.  the sign is so old that it appears the state has forgotten about it.  it likely will not be replaced as part of a state-highway renumbering, but rather when the City of Milwaukee next decides to make improvements to the street.

there are some straggler US-16 shields on county roads in Wisconsin which fall into the same category: forgotten by the state, ignored by the city or county.

Off-topic, but those stray US-16 shields are getting harder and harder to find.  Dodge County has replaced all of the US-16 shields with WI-16s over the past couple of years.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on July 22, 2013, 08:42:20 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on July 22, 2013, 02:32:11 PM
Its a wonder what they spend our tax dollars on...

Never thought I'd see a roadgeek bitching about the spending of tax dollars on roads. I think you just negated this whole board!
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Avalanchez71 on July 22, 2013, 10:22:58 PM
I always complain on tax dollars being spent.  I like roads; however, I like to know how my money is being spent.  I am more into legacy highways and maintaining current situations. 
Title: Highway 41's upgrade to interstate ahead of schedule
Post by: GeekJedi on July 29, 2013, 09:18:39 PM
From the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinal:

"A plan to upgrade state Highway 41 into an interstate is moving forward ahead of schedule and could be complete by the fall of 2014."

http://www.jsonline.com/news/traffic/highway-41s-upgrade-to-interstate-is-ahead-of-schedule-b9962583z1-217438721.html (http://www.jsonline.com/news/traffic/highway-41s-upgrade-to-interstate-is-ahead-of-schedule-b9962583z1-217438721.html)

What's of note is a blurb at the end mentioning that plans call for extending WI-175 down to the Stadium interchange.
Title: Re: Highway 41's upgrade to interstate ahead of schedule
Post by: Big John on July 29, 2013, 09:25:58 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on July 29, 2013, 09:18:39 PM
From the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinal:

"A plan to upgrade state Highway 41 into an interstate is moving forward ahead of schedule and could be complete by the fall of 2014."

:pan:
Title: Re: Highway 41's upgrade to interstate ahead of schedule
Post by: SEWIGuy on July 30, 2013, 09:00:56 AM
Quote from: GeekJedi on July 29, 2013, 09:18:39 PM
What's of note is a blurb at the end mentioning that plans call for extending WI-175 down to the Stadium interchange.


Then you might as well extend it to National Avenue and supplant WI-341 along the way.
Title: Re: Highway 41's upgrade to interstate ahead of schedule
Post by: Henry on July 30, 2013, 10:31:13 AM
Although it is nice to see US 41 become I-41, I think it's a little too much to have it share pavement with I-94 towards Chicago.
Title: Re: Highway 41's upgrade to interstate ahead of schedule
Post by: SEWIGuy on July 30, 2013, 12:02:14 PM
Quote from: Henry on July 30, 2013, 10:31:13 AM
Although it is nice to see US 41 become I-41, I think it's a little too much to have it share pavement with I-94 towards Chicago.


The only reason they are doing this is because US-41 does so now.  This will "connect" I-41 to US-41.
Title: Re: Highway 41's upgrade to interstate ahead of schedule
Post by: ET21 on July 30, 2013, 02:16:28 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on July 30, 2013, 12:02:14 PM
Quote from: Henry on July 30, 2013, 10:31:13 AM
Although it is nice to see US 41 become I-41, I think it's a little too much to have it share pavement with I-94 towards Chicago.


The only reason they are doing this is because US-41 does so now.  This will "connect" I-41 to US-41.

So it is becoming an actual Interstate 41. I was wondering if it would stay US 41 with interstate standard freeway design or get an interstate shield designation
Title: Re: Highway 41's upgrade to interstate ahead of schedule
Post by: Brandon on July 30, 2013, 02:24:24 PM
Quote from: ET21 on July 30, 2013, 02:16:28 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on July 30, 2013, 12:02:14 PM
Quote from: Henry on July 30, 2013, 10:31:13 AM
Although it is nice to see US 41 become I-41, I think it's a little too much to have it share pavement with I-94 towards Chicago.


The only reason they are doing this is because US-41 does so now.  This will "connect" I-41 to US-41.

So it is becoming an actual Interstate 41. I was wondering if it would stay US 41 with interstate standard freeway design or get an interstate shield designation

Yep, it's getting the fancy red-white-blue shied that will put it in the same class of routes such as I-180, Wyoming and I-70, Breezewood, Pennsylvania.
Title: Re: Highway 41's upgrade to interstate ahead of schedule
Post by: SEWIGuy on July 30, 2013, 02:46:03 PM
Quote from: ET21 on July 30, 2013, 02:16:28 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on July 30, 2013, 12:02:14 PM
Quote from: Henry on July 30, 2013, 10:31:13 AM
Although it is nice to see US 41 become I-41, I think it's a little too much to have it share pavement with I-94 towards Chicago.


The only reason they are doing this is because US-41 does so now.  This will "connect" I-41 to US-41.

So it is becoming an actual Interstate 41. I was wondering if it would stay US 41 with interstate standard freeway design or get an interstate shield designation


Oh it will get the I-41 shield designation.  It looks as though US-41 will disappear between the IL line and Green Bay.
Title: Re: Highway 41's upgrade to interstate ahead of schedule
Post by: triplemultiplex on July 30, 2013, 03:10:02 PM
Counting down to thread merger... 5... 4... 3...

Extending WI 175 makes the most sense for the surface street alignment of US 41.  So many of us have been arguing for this as long as we've been roadgeeks.
Title: Re: Highway 41's upgrade to interstate ahead of schedule
Post by: english si on July 30, 2013, 04:12:54 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on July 30, 2013, 02:46:03 PMOh it will get the I-41 shield designation.  It looks as though US-41 will disappear between the IL line and Green Bay.
Just south of the IL line - the other 2dis in IL were lonely and demanded another friend ;)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Brandon on July 30, 2013, 04:43:40 PM
Quote from: english si on July 30, 2013, 04:12:54 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on July 30, 2013, 02:46:03 PMOh it will get the I-41 shield designation.  It looks as though US-41 will disappear between the IL line and Green Bay.
Just south of the IL line - the other 2dis in IL were lonely and demanded another friend ;)

You folks do realize that Illinois will maintain the highest number of 2dis of any state at 13 with the addition of I-41 for a mile or so.

That means Illinois will have the following mainline interstate routes: 24, 39, 41, 55, 57, 64, 70, 72, 74, 80, 88, 90, and 94.  That's one more than Texas will have when all is said and done: 2, 10, 20, 27, 30, 35, 37, 40, 44, 45, 49, and 69.  I don't think any other states have more 2dis than these two.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: english si on July 30, 2013, 05:14:10 PM
Quote from: Brandon on July 30, 2013, 04:43:40 PMYou folks do realize that Illinois will maintain the highest number of 2dis of any state at 13 with the addition of I-41 for a mile or so.
I did, hence the weird phrasing and ;)

making sure that TX can't catch up so easily, they want I-66 too, but that's another thread...

In many ways it is surprising that they don't sign I-69 in the state, getting them to 14 before I-66 is built (again, another thread).
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: NE2 on July 30, 2013, 05:14:58 PM
35E, 35W, 69C, 69E :bigass:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Revive 755 on July 31, 2013, 08:52:38 PM
Quote from: english si on July 30, 2013, 05:14:10 PM
Quote from: Brandon on July 30, 2013, 04:43:40 PMYou folks do realize that Illinois will maintain the highest number of 2dis of any state at 13 with the addition of I-41 for a mile or so.
I did, hence the weird phrasing and ;)

making sure that TX can't catch up so easily, they want I-66 too, but that's another thread...

In many ways it is surprising that they don't sign I-69 in the state, getting them to 14 before I-66 is built (again, another thread).

More surprising they didn't try and get I-44 extended across the Mississippi somehow.  Or they gave up so easily on getting a 2di for the I-155 corridor (see the entries for I-155 and I-180 on Kurumi's site, http://www.kurumi.com/roads/3di/ix55.html#155il (http://www.kurumi.com/roads/3di/ix55.html#155il) and http://www.kurumi.com/roads/3di/i180.html#180il (http://www.kurumi.com/roads/3di/i180.html#180il))
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Brandon on July 31, 2013, 09:08:29 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on July 31, 2013, 08:52:38 PM
Quote from: english si on July 30, 2013, 05:14:10 PM
Quote from: Brandon on July 30, 2013, 04:43:40 PMYou folks do realize that Illinois will maintain the highest number of 2dis of any state at 13 with the addition of I-41 for a mile or so.
I did, hence the weird phrasing and ;)

making sure that TX can't catch up so easily, they want I-66 too, but that's another thread...

In many ways it is surprising that they don't sign I-69 in the state, getting them to 14 before I-66 is built (again, another thread).

More surprising they didn't try and get I-44 extended across the Mississippi somehow.  Or they gave up so easily on getting a 2di for the I-155 corridor (see the entries for I-155 and I-180 on Kurumi's site, http://www.kurumi.com/roads/3di/ix55.html#155il (http://www.kurumi.com/roads/3di/ix55.html#155il) and http://www.kurumi.com/roads/3di/i180.html#180il (http://www.kurumi.com/roads/3di/i180.html#180il))

IDOT apparently got slapped down rather hard by AASHTO and FHWA on their proposal for I-37 for what became I-155.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on July 31, 2013, 10:36:41 PM
Saw something tonight on the way home that will likely cause roadgeekgasms.

Yes, the very first I-41 signage went up today! No joke!

Unfortunately, I wasn't able to stop and snap a pic, but hopefully the WISDOT crews working on the road don't decide to cover it overnight. If able, I'll snap a pic on my phone tomorrow and post for all to see.  :biggrin:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Molandfreak on July 31, 2013, 10:59:36 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on July 31, 2013, 10:36:41 PM
Saw something tonight on the way home that will likely cause roadgeekgasms.

Yes, the very first I-41 signage went up today! No joke!

Unfortunately, I wasn't able to stop and snap a pic, but hopefully the WISDOT crews working on the road don't decide to cover it overnight. If able, I'll snap a pic on my phone tomorrow and post for all to see.  :biggrin:
Very cool! :cool:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on August 01, 2013, 02:00:21 AM
Quote from: FightingIrish on July 31, 2013, 10:36:41 PM
Saw something tonight on the way home that will likely cause roadgeekgasms.

Yes, the very first I-41 signage went up today! No joke!

Unfortunately, I wasn't able to stop and snap a pic, but hopefully the WISDOT crews working on the road don't decide to cover it overnight. If able, I'll snap a pic on my phone tomorrow and post for all to see.  :biggrin:

Got a location on that one?

I know that for the last couple of years, including RIGHT NOW, there has been a temporary sign with a blank interstate shield next to a US 41 shield on the US(I)-41 east frontage road (Poberenzy Rd) facing the main campground entrance at the EAA grounds in Oshkosh.  That sign has only been up during EAA's 'Airventure' week, which this year runs through Sunday (2013-08-04).

:nod:

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on August 01, 2013, 10:09:40 AM
Quote from: FightingIrish on July 31, 2013, 10:36:41 PM
Saw something tonight on the way home that will likely cause roadgeekgasms.

Yes, the very first I-41 signage went up today! No joke!

Unfortunately, I wasn't able to stop and snap a pic, but hopefully the WISDOT crews working on the road don't decide to cover it overnight. If able, I'll snap a pic on my phone tomorrow and post for all to see.  :biggrin:

TA DA!


(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs8.postimg.org%2F3mtmd3mdx%2FIMG_20130801_081223.jpg&hash=2771b59b72df73175a74e4e25182141ec12188d0)

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs12.postimg.org%2F5xrejymh9%2FIMG_20130801_081641.jpg&hash=46f7ff7bdb071379e549b50e981eb350e84241db)

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs15.postimg.org%2Fd0480q13f%2FIMG_20130801_081810.jpg&hash=73c5f5f1f6bbbde47a711a9e0212dc7837bfc58d)

This is on the just-reopened Greenfield Av bridge in West Allis. The first one is the view going westbound, the other two eastbound. Seeing as I was taking a picture into the sun on the last two, I did a little readjusting, hence, the weird psychedelic effect.

Apparently, WISDOT decided to post the new regalia to entertain the State Fair-bound crowds. But there it is, your new I-41.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on August 01, 2013, 10:17:58 AM
And... from last week, same bridge. The temporary demotion of US 45

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs12.postimg.org%2Fbwsnaa5al%2FIMG_20130730_085933.jpg&hash=ede4b03c643a4f22f9fa4d1e3c079b17e7591d5d)


Just kidding. Must have misplaced the blank US shields.  :D
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on August 01, 2013, 10:59:18 AM
Cool pics Fighting!

And those can't be US-41 "mistakes" because US-41 doesn't use that route.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: english si on August 01, 2013, 11:20:15 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 01, 2013, 10:59:18 AMAnd those can't be US-41 "mistakes" because US-41 doesn't use that route.
Yes it does - they rerouted it onto I-41 at the same time they applied for the number...

Is it just those two sign assemblies?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on August 01, 2013, 11:23:14 AM
Quote from: english si on August 01, 2013, 11:20:15 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 01, 2013, 10:59:18 AMAnd those can't be US-41 "mistakes" because US-41 doesn't use that route.
Yes it does - they rerouted it onto I-41 at the same time they applied for the number...


I was unaware of that.  No signage indicates that however.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on August 01, 2013, 11:26:27 AM
Quote from: english si on August 01, 2013, 11:20:15 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 01, 2013, 10:59:18 AMAnd those can't be US-41 "mistakes" because US-41 doesn't use that route.
Yes it does - they rerouted it onto I-41 at the same time they applied for the number...

Is it just those two sign assemblies?

Those are the only two assemblies I've seen, and probably the only ones that exist so far. The new bridge and interchange just opened last week, and they finally activated the traffic lights and removed most of the cones in the past few days. AFAIK, the sign assemblies went up yesterday. Coincidentally, the Wisconsin State Fair opens today, and that is a primary interchange for out-of-towners coming from the southwest.

Damn near drove off the road last night when I saw the new sign assemblies.

Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 01, 2013, 11:23:14 AM
Quote from: english si on August 01, 2013, 11:20:15 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 01, 2013, 10:59:18 AMAnd those can't be US-41 "mistakes" because US-41 doesn't use that route.
Yes it does - they rerouted it onto I-41 at the same time they applied for the number...


I was unaware of that.  No signage indicates that however.

Yes, the US 41 designation will follow the proposed route of I-41 in a hidden concurrency from Russel, IL to Green Bay. The current US 41 in Milwaukee (Appleton Av, Lisbon Av and the Stadium Freeway) will become WIS 175.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: agentsteel53 on August 01, 2013, 12:45:55 PM
find me one with the state name.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on August 01, 2013, 01:49:14 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on August 01, 2013, 11:26:27 AM
Quote from: english si on August 01, 2013, 11:20:15 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 01, 2013, 10:59:18 AMAnd those can't be US-41 "mistakes" because US-41 doesn't use that route.
Yes it does - they rerouted it onto I-41 at the same time they applied for the number...

Is it just those two sign assemblies?

Those are the only two assemblies I've seen, and probably the only ones that exist so far. The new bridge and interchange just opened last week, and they finally activated the traffic lights and removed most of the cones in the past few days. AFAIK, the sign assemblies went up yesterday. Coincidentally, the Wisconsin State Fair opens today, and that is a primary interchange for out-of-towners coming from the southwest.

Damn near drove off the road last night when I saw the new sign assemblies.

Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 01, 2013, 11:23:14 AM
Quote from: english si on August 01, 2013, 11:20:15 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 01, 2013, 10:59:18 AMAnd those can't be US-41 "mistakes" because US-41 doesn't use that route.
Yes it does - they rerouted it onto I-41 at the same time they applied for the number...


I was unaware of that.  No signage indicates that however.

Yes, the US 41 designation will follow the proposed route of I-41 in a hidden concurrency from Russel, IL to Green Bay. The current US 41 in Milwaukee (Appleton Av, Lisbon Av and the Stadium Freeway) will become WIS 175.


I understand that.  English si said that US-41 was officially rerouted....but the more I think about it, the more I believe we just were talking past one another.  US-41 doesn't officially use the future I-41 route right now.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: DaBigE on August 01, 2013, 02:14:25 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on August 01, 2013, 10:09:40 AM
Quote from: FightingIrish on July 31, 2013, 10:36:41 PM
Saw something tonight on the way home that will likely cause roadgeekgasms.

Yes, the very first I-41 signage went up today! No joke!

Unfortunately, I wasn't able to stop and snap a pic, but hopefully the WISDOT crews working on the road don't decide to cover it overnight. If able, I'll snap a pic on my phone tomorrow and post for all to see.  :biggrin:

TA DA!


(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs8.postimg.org%2F3mtmd3mdx%2FIMG_20130801_081223.jpg&hash=2771b59b72df73175a74e4e25182141ec12188d0)

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs12.postimg.org%2F5xrejymh9%2FIMG_20130801_081641.jpg&hash=46f7ff7bdb071379e549b50e981eb350e84241db)

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs15.postimg.org%2Fd0480q13f%2FIMG_20130801_081810.jpg&hash=73c5f5f1f6bbbde47a711a9e0212dc7837bfc58d)

This is on the just-reopened Greenfield Av bridge in West Allis. The first one is the view going westbound, the other two eastbound. Seeing as I was taking a picture into the sun on the last two, I did a little readjusting, hence, the weird psychedelic effect.

Apparently, WISDOT decided to post the new regalia to entertain the State Fair-bound crowds. But there it is, your new I-41.

Why two redundant lane signs? Why not one sign with two arrows, with the routes centered? :banghead:  Could have ended up with a smaller overall panel.

A side note, also some of the first LED streetlight installations on the WisDOT system.  :clap:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Brandon on August 01, 2013, 04:48:51 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 01, 2013, 12:45:55 PM
find me one with the state name.


Wait.  Some contractor in Illinois or ISTHA will come out with one.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: agentsteel53 on August 01, 2013, 04:52:08 PM
there was either an 894 in a construction zone a few years ago that was the only state-named example of that number ever spotted.  so, high hopes!

(//www.aaroads.com/shields/img/WI/WI19798941i1.jpg)

so, speaking of Illinois contractors... when will they put up Illy state-named shields?  those are a challenge to find, too!
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on August 02, 2013, 05:17:05 PM
Bad news, road fans. Looks like WisDOT covered up the 41s.    :-(

But we all here know what lurks behind those green squares....
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Stratuscaster on August 02, 2013, 08:40:00 PM
But...did they cover up the I-41's with US-41's?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Big John on August 02, 2013, 08:47:48 PM
Quote from: Stratuscaster on August 02, 2013, 08:40:00 PM
But...did they cover up the I-41's with US-41's?
They better not have, since the current US 41 routing is in a different area and had not been converted yet.
Title: Re: Highway 41's upgrade to interstate ahead of schedule
Post by: Duke87 on August 02, 2013, 09:08:29 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on July 30, 2013, 12:02:14 PM
Quote from: Henry on July 30, 2013, 10:31:13 AM
Although it is nice to see US 41 become I-41, I think it's a little too much to have it share pavement with I-94 towards Chicago.


The only reason they are doing this is because US-41 does so now.  This will "connect" I-41 to US-41.

Blech. I'd rather the number 41 simply disappear between the southern 94 junction and Milwaukee. Having a designation end as part of a concurrency is just more confusing.

Furthermore, if I-41 is going to share pavement with all of I-894, why keep that designation around?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on August 02, 2013, 11:03:09 PM
Quote from: Stratuscaster on August 02, 2013, 08:40:00 PM
But...did they cover up the I-41's with US-41's?

Nope. Just big green squares. At least they're the same color, they blend right in to the sign.

Quote from: Duke87 on August 02, 2013, 09:08:29 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on July 30, 2013, 12:02:14 PM
Quote from: Henry on July 30, 2013, 10:31:13 AM
Although it is nice to see US 41 become I-41, I think it's a little too much to have it share pavement with I-94 towards Chicago.


The only reason they are doing this is because US-41 does so now.  This will "connect" I-41 to US-41.

Blech. I'd rather the number 41 simply disappear between the southern 94 junction and Milwaukee. Having a designation end as part of a concurrency is just more confusing.

Furthermore, if I-41 is going to share pavement with all of I-894, why keep that designation around?

The most common reasons I've heard are: a) it allows them to keep most of the mileage signs where they are, though I imagine they'll be a little bit off; b) It minimizes confusion, as there will only be one version of Hwy 41 in the area; and c) it mollifies the business owners in Fox Valley, as they have an interstate highway that extends into the northern Chicago suburbs.

I assume WisDOT is keeping I-894 around to continue serving as a bypass of downtown. It's the only bypass the area has, so I guess they feel obligated to hold on to it. Plus, after a half century in existence, I-894 is pretty familiar to people.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on August 03, 2013, 01:17:41 AM
I'm just happy that that logical freeway routing around Milwaukeeland will now have a single route number.

:nod:

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: ET21 on August 03, 2013, 01:26:28 AM
Quote from: FightingIrish on August 02, 2013, 05:17:05 PM
Bad news, road fans. Looks like WisDOT covered up the 41s.    :-(

But we all here know what lurks behind those green squares....

Watch, they'll put US 41 signs over them....
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on August 03, 2013, 11:32:43 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on August 02, 2013, 09:08:29 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on July 30, 2013, 12:02:14 PM
Quote from: Henry on July 30, 2013, 10:31:13 AM
Although it is nice to see US 41 become I-41, I think it's a little too much to have it share pavement with I-94 towards Chicago.


The only reason they are doing this is because US-41 does so now.  This will "connect" I-41 to US-41.

Blech. I'd rather the number 41 simply disappear between the southern 94 junction and Milwaukee. Having a designation end as part of a concurrency is just more confusing.


No, it is actually going to be less confusing for the locals.  Believe me, from a navigational perspective, this makes the most sense.

It would be kind of fun to see US-45 returned to Lovers Lane/108th St/Mayfair Road...but that's probably not a good idea either.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on August 03, 2013, 12:51:01 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 03, 2013, 11:32:43 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on August 02, 2013, 09:08:29 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on July 30, 2013, 12:02:14 PM
Quote from: Henry on July 30, 2013, 10:31:13 AM
Although it is nice to see US 41 become I-41, I think it's a little too much to have it share pavement with I-94 towards Chicago.


The only reason they are doing this is because US-41 does so now.  This will "connect" I-41 to US-41.

Blech. I'd rather the number 41 simply disappear between the southern 94 junction and Milwaukee. Having a designation end as part of a concurrency is just more confusing.


No, it is actually going to be less confusing for the locals.  Believe me, from a navigational perspective, this makes the most sense.

It would be kind of fun to see US-45 returned to Lovers Lane/108th St/Mayfair Road...but that's probably not a good idea either.

That would be REALLY confusing!
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: english si on August 03, 2013, 01:50:58 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 03, 2013, 11:32:43 AMNo, it is actually going to be less confusing for the locals.  Believe me, from a navigational perspective, this makes the most sense.
"Head south on the interstate" "But there's only East and West options!"
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Big John on August 03, 2013, 02:02:54 PM
Quote from: english si on August 03, 2013, 01:50:58 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 03, 2013, 11:32:43 AMNo, it is actually going to be less confusing for the locals.  Believe me, from a navigational perspective, this makes the most sense.
"Head south on the interstate" "But there's only East and West options!"
More than that, there will be a wrong-way concurrency of I-41 and I-43 on the east-west portion of I-894.
Title: Re: Highway 41's upgrade to interstate ahead of schedule
Post by: Molandfreak on August 03, 2013, 02:33:12 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on August 02, 2013, 09:08:29 PM
Blech. I'd rather the number 41 simply disappear between the southern 94 junction and Milwaukee. Having a designation end as part of a concurrency is just more confusing.
Tell that to MN 169.

Quote from: Big John on August 03, 2013, 02:02:54 PM
More than that, there will be a wrong-way concurrency of I-41 and I-43 on the east-west portion of I-894.
Maybe that's the only reason to keep I-894 around.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on August 03, 2013, 02:38:00 PM
Quote from: english si on August 03, 2013, 01:50:58 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 03, 2013, 11:32:43 AMNo, it is actually going to be less confusing for the locals.  Believe me, from a navigational perspective, this makes the most sense.
"Head south on the interstate" "But there's only East and West options!"


Considering that you head south from Milwaukee to Chicago, but now have to go "east" on I-94, adding a "south" I-41 will be helpful.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on August 03, 2013, 02:54:33 PM
Of course they're going to cover them up - I'd be confused myself. 

Oh wait... :pan:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: english si on August 03, 2013, 04:05:05 PM
Quote from: Duke87 on August 02, 2013, 09:08:29 PMBlech. I'd rather the number 41 simply disappear between the southern 94 junction and Milwaukee. Having a designation end as part of a concurrency is just more confusing.
Why is it more confusing? So-called 'useless concurrencies' are almost always done for useful reasons - in this case, to give a N-S interstate along the N-S freeway.

And given that this is basically a change from white [41] shields to red and blue ones, it makes even more sense... It's like the A4/A104 concurrency near Paris. The A104 doesn't get south of the A4, but is concurrent with the A4 (https://maps.google.com/?ll=48.832351,2.653885&spn=0.034408,0.084543&t=m&z=14&layer=c&cbll=48.832303,2.653491&panoid=XcX8pEV00ot0-1SSv0FJrQ&cbp=12,265.47,,0,0.46) for the two junctions between the A104 'proper', and the N104 continuing the ring road south.
Quote from: Big John on August 03, 2013, 02:02:54 PM
Quote from: english si on August 03, 2013, 01:50:58 PM"Head south on the interstate" "But there's only East and West options!"
More than that, there will be a wrong-way concurrency of I-41 and I-43 on the east-west portion of I-894.
I described the status quo, where a major N-S route is signed E-W.
SEWIGuy got it.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: rickmastfan67 on August 03, 2013, 06:23:56 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on August 02, 2013, 05:17:05 PM
Bad news, road fans. Looks like WisDOT covered up the 41s.    :-(

But we all here know what lurks behind those green squares....

Hey, at least you got pictures of the signs without the I-41 shields being covered over. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Molandfreak on August 03, 2013, 06:28:42 PM
Quote from: english si on August 03, 2013, 04:05:05 PM
Quote from: Big John on August 03, 2013, 02:02:54 PM
Quote from: english si on August 03, 2013, 01:50:58 PM"Head south on the interstate" "But there's only East and West options!"
More than that, there will be a wrong-way concurrency of I-41 and I-43 on the east-west portion of I-894.
I described the status quo, where a major N-S route is signed E-W.
SEWIGuy got it.
But did anyone complain when I-39/90 was only I-90 from Madison to Rockford? That doesn't make any sense signed E-W, either.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: agentsteel53 on August 03, 2013, 06:34:44 PM
COUGH COUGH I-80/I-580 in the East Bay.  dies of coughing fit

gotta be the stupidest perpendicular signage out there.  it's a wrong-way multiplex, and neither way is the actual geographical way.

it was a lot better when the route was 80 (needed for continuity) and north-south CA-17.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on August 03, 2013, 09:38:23 PM
That was a sweet little preview of what's coming our way.  Just a taste for now.  Like a teaser for a new movie.

Because 894 is sticking around, Wisconsin will now be home to two three-way concurrences.  With the new I-70 bridge in St. Louis soon to be done, Wisconsin will have a monopoly on such anomalies.  At least until I-69 shields start going up around the Indy beltline.  (69/74/465)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Revive 755 on August 03, 2013, 10:51:47 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on August 02, 2013, 05:17:05 PM
Bad news, road fans. Looks like WisDOT covered up the 41s.    :-(

But we all here know what lurks behind those green squares....

Still just green squares as of today.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.com%2Fa%2Fimg441%2F986%2Fe96s.jpg&hash=5e16338701d5189a691c41cc0ec14b060356bfa0)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.com%2Fa%2Fimg692%2F4157%2Fzda6.jpg&hash=2eb5272e1aec61876e7e0b91de1fdeab18f499c4)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on August 13, 2013, 09:26:57 PM
It had been well over a year since I've been through Green Bay to see the freeway expansion and that new 29 interchange is now very impressive.  Crews were lifting the third-to-last tub girder for the NB->WB flyover when I drove by.  The brick facing on the overpasses and support columns is somewhat reflective of a certain nearby "Arena Stadium". ;)

I have yet to travel south of WI 172 (like, ever!) and see how that part is going first hand.  But nary a spade of earth has been turned around the I-43 interchange.  One system interchange at a time, just like Wausau.

Some of the new Michigan lefts on WI 29 west of CTH J are done.
Total waste of everyone's time.  Should just freeway convert that stretch out to WI 32 north right now and be done with it.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on August 17, 2013, 08:36:25 PM
Apparently WisDOT is still teasing us:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs16.postimg.org%2Fryo3scc91%2FIMG_20130817_183543.jpg&hash=a0db79f8f083f91907ed144436ba6b9dba2cbf79)

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs11.postimg.org%2Fdxgiy74kz%2FIMG_20130817_183615.jpg&hash=e3cc561b58384b23a66b8cd90fbdd7177cdd77f2)

Snapped those today.  :)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: vtk on August 17, 2013, 08:42:27 PM
Are those cardinals in Series C? Is that typical for Milwaukee area?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: DaBigE on August 18, 2013, 12:41:43 AM
Quote from: vtk on August 17, 2013, 08:42:27 PM
Are those cardinals in Series C? Is that typical for Milwaukee area?
Yes, that's Series C. That's typical for WisDOT in general for signs not on a freeway, and not just around Milwaukee.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on August 18, 2013, 10:20:26 AM
Quote from: DaBigE on August 18, 2013, 12:41:43 AM
Quote from: vtk on August 17, 2013, 08:42:27 PM
Are those cardinals in Series C? Is that typical for Milwaukee area?
Yes, that's Series C. That's typical for WisDOT in general for signs not on a freeway, and not just around Milwaukee.

There are similar signs on College Ave (WI 125) at US(I)-41 here in Appleton, too - except that they have 'US 41' shields with no room for any other signs.  They are a new thing in WI, the signs here only appeared about two years ago and they were the first that I was aware of statewide.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on August 19, 2013, 09:25:51 AM
What ramps are those I-41 signs at?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on August 19, 2013, 10:33:59 AM
Quote from: Fox 11 News on August 19, 2013, 09:25:51 AM
What ramps are those I-41 signs at?

They're at I-(41)/894/US 45 at Greenfield Ave (WI 59) in West Allis (suburban Milwaukee).

Greenfield Ave is the first interchange south of I-94 (Zoo Interchange) and is the main street that runs past the south side of State Fair Park.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on August 19, 2013, 11:00:46 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on August 19, 2013, 10:33:59 AM
Quote from: Fox 11 News on August 19, 2013, 09:25:51 AM
What ramps are those I-41 signs at?

They're at I-(41)/894/US 45 at Greenfield Ave (WI 59) in West Allis (suburban Milwaukee).

Greenfield Ave is the first interchange south of I-94 (Zoo Interchange) and is the main street that runs past the south side of State Fair Park.

Mike

Southwest ramp, freeway entrance (by Summit Credit Union, as shown in a photo farther up the page). Decided to actually get out of the car and walk across the bridge to snap it. It was late afternoon, however, so lighting was a bit tricky from that angle. Still there as of last night.

Greenfield Av. must be the spot where I-41 is born. And technically they could probably get away with leaving the signage, as it's already an interstate anyway.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on August 19, 2013, 11:03:34 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on August 19, 2013, 10:33:59 AM
Quote from: Fox 11 News on August 19, 2013, 09:25:51 AM
What ramps are those I-41 signs at?

They're at I-(41)/894/US 45 at Greenfield Ave (WI 59) in West Allis (suburban Milwaukee).

Greenfield Ave is the first interchange south of I-94 (Zoo Interchange) and is the main street that runs past the south side of State Fair Park.

Mike


And since that entire bridge and interchange were just replaced, it made perfect since to erect the signs.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on August 19, 2013, 02:37:56 PM
DOT NE region tells me that the I41 part of the sign will be covered (if not done already). Still waiting on the Congressional approval for weight limits before moving ahead.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on August 19, 2013, 04:38:56 PM
Quote from: Fox 11 News on August 19, 2013, 02:37:56 PM
DOT NE region tells me that the I41 part of the sign will be covered (if not done already). Still waiting on the Congressional approval for weight limits before moving ahead.

That was bound to happen anyway. Still waiting for Senate approval on the weight limits waiver. Then a few formalities such as some public meetings, a final environmental study and whatever little i's and t's need to dotted and crossed. But it'll happen.

It does make sense to get that stuff ready on a new bridge/intersection (Greenfield Av.). There are two other bridges being rebuilt now (Cleveland Av. and Swan Blvd.), but neither will have a direct exit/entrance to US 45 (NB Swan is still connected to the Watertown Plank Rd. intersection for now).

Speaking of Watertown Plank, that will be the next big interchange project, with new ramps, underpass, etc. That will begin later this year.  I'm sure the new signs there will get the covered I-41 treatment like Greenfield did.

The section near WIS 100 is being rebuilt now with lots of new lanes, badly needed, with several enormous office/technology parks and a huge county medical complex there. But I think the commercial development there is still going to be a problem, because it is very heavily used and will get even worse with the county grounds development north of WPR. They may have to build another interchange at the new Swan Blvd. to carry the excess, since the new WPR interchange won't be enough. I've noticed that the Wisconsin Av. ramps are already outdated and being rebuilt, just five years after being put in.

Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: JREwing78 on August 20, 2013, 12:22:31 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on August 13, 2013, 09:26:57 PM
Some of the new Michigan lefts on WI 29 west of CTH J are done.
Total waste of everyone's time.  Should just freeway convert that stretch out to WI 32 north right now and be done with it.

If my experience with how Michigan Lefts work in Michigan is any indicator, they should forestall the need to convert this stretch to freeway for at least a few years. Bridges are expensive; Michigan Lefts are cheap.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on August 20, 2013, 01:00:30 PM
Quote from: JREwing78 on August 20, 2013, 12:22:31 AM

If my experience with how Michigan Lefts work in Michigan is any indicator, they should forestall the need to convert this stretch to freeway for at least a few years. Bridges are expensive; Michigan Lefts are cheap.

And U-turns into 70 mph traffic are dangerous.
I can think of a dozen things WisDOT has poured millions into that were less deserving than a freeway converted WI 29 in Brown County. <cough> Burlington bypass! <cough cough>
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Molandfreak on August 20, 2013, 01:06:17 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on August 20, 2013, 01:00:30 PM
Quote from: JREwing78 on August 20, 2013, 12:22:31 AM

If my experience with how Michigan Lefts work in Michigan is any indicator, they should forestall the need to convert this stretch to freeway for at least a few years. Bridges are expensive; Michigan Lefts are cheap.

And U-turns into 70 mph traffic are dangerous.
I can think of a dozen things WisDOT has poured millions into that were less deserving than a freeway converted WI 29 in Brown County. <cough> Burlington bypass! <cough cough>
Not to mention, are they leaving enough room in the Michigan left to U-turn, change lanes, and change lanes again for the right turn lane?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: JREwing78 on August 21, 2013, 10:42:28 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on August 20, 2013, 01:06:17 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on August 20, 2013, 01:00:30 PM
Quote from: JREwing78 on August 20, 2013, 12:22:31 AM

If my experience with how Michigan Lefts work in Michigan is any indicator, they should forestall the need to convert this stretch to freeway for at least a few years. Bridges are expensive; Michigan Lefts are cheap.

And U-turns into 70 mph traffic are dangerous.
I can think of a dozen things WisDOT has poured millions into that were less deserving than a freeway converted WI 29 in Brown County. <cough> Burlington bypass! <cough cough>
Not to mention, are they leaving enough room in the Michigan left to U-turn, change lanes, and change lanes again for the right turn lane?

Looks plenty adequate to me:
http://www.dot.state.wi.us/projects/neregion/29/docs/map-ctyuvv.pdf

Michigan has a stretch of US-127 that has a similar configuration (with a similar speed limit), except it doesn't have the left turns at the crossroad intersection. It simply has the left turns beyond the intersection. You have plenty of room to make the U-turn (they don't expect you to end up in the far left lane), and good visibility of oncoming traffic before proceeding.

Michigan has similar arrangements on a number of 55mph+ highways  (US-31 between Holland and Grand Haven, M-53 around Romeo, M-5 north of I-96/I-275/I-696), as well as on faster-flowing city streets (US-24/Telegraph Rd, M-8, M-1/Woodward Ave).

Is it a replacement for a freeway conversion? No. Will it suffice until they convert Hwy 29? Probably.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: tchafe1978 on September 04, 2013, 09:08:41 AM
Public hearings announced for U.S. 41 Conversion Project

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/opencms/export/nr/modules/news/news_4181.html_786229440.html

There is a map attached to this link that confirms the new routing of WIS 175 and the rerouting of US 41. US 41 will still be cosigned along the entire route of I-41.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Big John on September 04, 2013, 09:17:13 AM
^^ Their map shows WI 441 as US 441
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: tchafe1978 on September 04, 2013, 09:28:28 AM
That's funny. I didn't catch that right away.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Henry on September 04, 2013, 10:08:59 AM
Quote from: tchafe1978 on September 04, 2013, 09:08:41 AM
Public hearings announced for U.S. 41 Conversion Project

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/opencms/export/nr/modules/news/news_4181.html_786229440.html

There is a map attached to this link that confirms the new routing of WIS 175 and the rerouting of US 41. US 41 will still be cosigned along the entire route of I-41.
So they decided against the hidden concurrency?

Quote from: Big John on September 04, 2013, 09:17:13 AM
^^ Their map shows WI 441 as US 441
They probably meant I-441, which has been proposed in the roadgeek circle for some time now.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on September 04, 2013, 10:21:15 AM
Quote from: tchafe1978 on September 04, 2013, 09:08:41 AM
Public hearings announced for U.S. 41 Conversion Project

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/opencms/export/nr/modules/news/news_4181.html_786229440.html

There is a map attached to this link that confirms the new routing of WIS 175 and the rerouting of US 41. US 41 will still be cosigned along the entire route of I-41.


The cosigning is implied but not explicitly stated.  With the pics of I-41 we have seen at the Greenfield Ave bridge, there is no US-41 shield. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on September 04, 2013, 11:45:56 AM
Wis 172 also shows as US 172 on there...if that makes any difference.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on September 04, 2013, 12:08:55 PM
Quote from: Henry on September 04, 2013, 10:08:59 AM
Quote from: tchafe1978 on September 04, 2013, 09:08:41 AM
Public hearings announced for U.S. 41 Conversion Project

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/opencms/export/nr/modules/news/news_4181.html_786229440.html

There is a map attached to this link that confirms the new routing of WIS 175 and the rerouting of US 41. US 41 will still be cosigned along the entire route of I-41.
So they decided against the hidden concurrency?

Quote from: Big John on September 04, 2013, 09:17:13 AM
^^ Their map shows WI 441 as US 441
They probably meant I-441, which has been proposed in the roadgeek circle for some time now.

The Winnebago County part of WI 441 (the part combined with US 10) is woefully substandard, especially its bridge over Little Lake Butte des Morts.  WisDOT has firm plans to correct that, as well as upgrade the rest of the Winnebago County part of the freeway east of the bridge to six lanes, waiting on funding.

Also, regarding co-signing, to do that outside of metro Milwaukee will require WisDOT to *replace* multitudes of signs along the way - at great cost of public treasure - while doing a 'hidden' concurrency will allow them to simply overlay their existing US 41 shields with interstate ones.  Absolutely NONE of the signs along all of US(I)-41 outside of Milwaukee County, even those reeeeally big overhead BGSes that were installed on the Oshkosh Causeway just a couple of months ago, have room set aside for an additional route shield.

Also, any word on whether or not 'WI 341' will be going bye-bye in favor of an extended WI 175?

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on September 04, 2013, 12:28:13 PM
Quote from: Henry on September 04, 2013, 10:08:59 AM
Quote from: tchafe1978 on September 04, 2013, 09:08:41 AM
Public hearings announced for U.S. 41 Conversion Project

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/opencms/export/nr/modules/news/news_4181.html_786229440.html

There is a map attached to this link that confirms the new routing of WIS 175 and the rerouting of US 41. US 41 will still be cosigned along the entire route of I-41.
So they decided against the hidden concurrency?


It doesn't say they will, it doesn't say they won't. As SEWIGuy pointed out, US 41 isn't marked on the Greenfield Av. interchange where I-41 is.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: tchafe1978 on September 04, 2013, 12:52:26 PM
I made the assumption that they would be cosigning US 41 with I-41 based on the part of the map that shows such, on the Milwaukee area inset. Of course, given the other errors on the map, that could be all wrong.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: rickmastfan67 on September 04, 2013, 07:41:14 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on September 04, 2013, 12:28:13 PM
Quote from: Henry on September 04, 2013, 10:08:59 AM
Quote from: tchafe1978 on September 04, 2013, 09:08:41 AM
Public hearings announced for U.S. 41 Conversion Project

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/opencms/export/nr/modules/news/news_4181.html_786229440.html

There is a map attached to this link that confirms the new routing of WIS 175 and the rerouting of US 41. US 41 will still be cosigned along the entire route of I-41.
So they decided against the hidden concurrency?


It doesn't say they will, it doesn't say they won't. As SEWIGuy pointed out, US 41 isn't marked on the Greenfield Av. interchange where I-41 is.

For all we know, they will just put the US-41 shields on the side of the road with a I-41 shield and not put them on the BGS's.  Kinda the same way PennDOT deals with US-22/US-30 along I-376 here in Pittsburgh. In this picture on StreetView (http://goo.gl/maps/uBLG8), you can see that there is no mention of US-22/US-30 on the BGS, but in the background, you can see (if you zoom in) a set of ground mounted US-22/US-30 shields with a I-376 shield.  Hopefully, Wisconsin decides to go that way in signage.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on September 05, 2013, 10:17:31 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on September 04, 2013, 12:08:55 PM

Also, any word on whether or not 'WI 341' will be going bye-bye in favor of an extended WI 175?

I have to think WI 341 is toast.  It's not like there are any signs to change.
(Or did WisDOT throw up some signs recently?  Or am I confusing that with 341 showing up on state highway maps?)

I would advocate for the removal of I-894 at this time.  Yeah, yeah, you can argue it's still the 'bypass' route, but getting people to and from Chicago on one number is the biggest reason we're getting I-41.  So 894 is still redundant.  I hate to see it go on some level, but it is going to be a waste of space on every sign (and every map) starting next year.
"I-41 North"
"Madison"
"Fond du Lac"

Easy.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Milwaukee, WY on September 06, 2013, 10:53:14 AM
WUWM had a representative from WisDOT on their "Lake Effect" program earlier this week. She said US 41 would not be fully signed, but they would be posting reassurance shields along the entire route.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on September 06, 2013, 11:37:55 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on September 05, 2013, 10:17:31 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on September 04, 2013, 12:08:55 PM

Also, any word on whether or not 'WI 341' will be going bye-bye in favor of an extended WI 175?

I have to think WI 341 is toast.  It's not like there are any signs to change.
(Or did WisDOT throw up some signs recently?  Or am I confusing that with 341 showing up on state highway maps?)


You are confusing it with WI-119...the airport spur that was not signed until recently.  There are no signs for WI-341.  I think WI-175 should replace it but I am not sure that is happening.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on September 06, 2013, 11:38:32 AM
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on September 06, 2013, 10:53:14 AM
WUWM had a representative from WisDOT on their "Lake Effect" program earlier this week. She said US 41 would not be fully signed, but they would be posting reassurance shields along the entire route.


Thank you...and hats off to rickmastfan67.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Brandon on September 06, 2013, 12:11:19 PM
Quote from: merrycilantro on September 04, 2013, 11:45:56 AM
Wis 172 also shows as US 172 on there...if that makes any difference.

It sure as heck doesn't seem to make any difference to WisDOT.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on September 06, 2013, 04:49:05 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 06, 2013, 11:37:55 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on September 05, 2013, 10:17:31 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on September 04, 2013, 12:08:55 PM

Also, any word on whether or not 'WI 341' will be going bye-bye in favor of an extended WI 175?

I have to think WI 341 is toast.  It's not like there are any signs to change.
(Or did WisDOT throw up some signs recently?  Or am I confusing that with 341 showing up on state highway maps?)


You are confusing it with WI-119...the airport spur that was not signed until recently.  There are no signs for WI-341.  I think WI-175 should replace it but I am not sure that is happening.

There is a 'TO/WI 341' sign on a surface access road by Miller Park.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on September 06, 2013, 06:27:02 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 06, 2013, 11:38:32 AM
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on September 06, 2013, 10:53:14 AM
WUWM had a representative from WisDOT on their "Lake Effect" program earlier this week. She said US 41 would not be fully signed, but they would be posting reassurance shields along the entire route.


Thank you...and hats off to rickmastfan67.

Here's the audio:

http://wuwm.com/post/highway-41-could-become-interstate-2014

Quote from: triplemultiplex on September 05, 2013, 10:17:31 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on September 04, 2013, 12:08:55 PM

Also, any word on whether or not 'WI 341' will be going bye-bye in favor of an extended WI 175?

I have to think WI 341 is toast.  It's not like there are any signs to change.
(Or did WisDOT throw up some signs recently?  Or am I confusing that with 341 showing up on state highway maps?)

I would advocate for the removal of I-894 at this time.  Yeah, yeah, you can argue it's still the 'bypass' route, but getting people to and from Chicago on one number is the biggest reason we're getting I-41.  So 894 is still redundant.  I hate to see it go on some level, but it is going to be a waste of space on every sign (and every map) starting next year.
"I-41 North"
"Madison"
"Fond du Lac"

Easy.

As for WIS 175 being signed to National Av (WIS 59), WisDOT seems rather vague about it. All they have said is that WIS 175 will be extended down Appleton Av, Lisbon Av, and the Stadium Freeway to the Stadium Interchange. WIS 341 runs another mile south from there to National. Perhaps anyone who plans on attending the meeting can inquire about it, or even suggest resigning it as 175.

Keeping I-894 as-is, concurrencies and all, is not the worst thing in the world. With the new I-41 addition, it will be beneficial to those using older maps, or those using old habits. I know people here get all itchy about concurrencies, but as I often say, if it makes things more convenient for the people who drive on these roads, myself included, then leave it. It's too bad the proposed Belt Freeway was never built, which was intended to be an outer belt through Waukesha County up to 41/45. But seeing how valuable that land has become for residential development, and most likely a lot of well-to-do NIMBYs, that will never happen. Besides, Milwaukee isn't much of a bypass town for people coming from Illinois and going west (to Minnesota, et. al.). Most people take I-90 for that.

Quote from: Brandon on September 06, 2013, 12:11:19 PM
Quote from: merrycilantro on September 04, 2013, 11:45:56 AM
Wis 172 also shows as US 172 on there...if that makes any difference.

It sure as heck doesn't seem to make any difference to WisDOT.

It's a simple mock-up map. Just because WisDOT put an illustration on a brochure doesn't make it gospel. If it were, it would also be drawn to exact scale, and I'm surprised nobody's bitching about that. Anyone with half a brain reading it knows what the hell they're referring to.

On a semi-related note, I saw a detour sign closer to Downtown Milwaukee today for a "US 57".  Let the undie twisting begin!
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: rickmastfan67 on September 06, 2013, 08:10:19 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 06, 2013, 11:38:32 AM
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on September 06, 2013, 10:53:14 AM
WUWM had a representative from WisDOT on their "Lake Effect" program earlier this week. She said US 41 would not be fully signed, but they would be posting reassurance shields along the entire route.


Thank you...and hats off to rickmastfan67.

He shoots, he scores. :) hehehe.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on September 06, 2013, 09:23:51 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 06, 2013, 11:37:55 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on September 05, 2013, 10:17:31 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on September 04, 2013, 12:08:55 PM

Also, any word on whether or not 'WI 341' will be going bye-bye in favor of an extended WI 175?

I have to think WI 341 is toast.  It's not like there are any signs to change.
(Or did WisDOT throw up some signs recently?  Or am I confusing that with 341 showing up on state highway maps?)


You are confusing it with WI-119...the airport spur that was not signed until recently.  There are no signs for WI-341.  I think WI-175 should replace it but I am not sure that is happening.

Ah yes, that's exactly what I was thinking of.  Thank you.
It makes too much sense not to have 175 continue to National Ave.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on September 06, 2013, 09:42:08 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on September 06, 2013, 04:49:05 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 06, 2013, 11:37:55 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on September 05, 2013, 10:17:31 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on September 04, 2013, 12:08:55 PM

Also, any word on whether or not 'WI 341' will be going bye-bye in favor of an extended WI 175?

I have to think WI 341 is toast.  It's not like there are any signs to change.
(Or did WisDOT throw up some signs recently?  Or am I confusing that with 341 showing up on state highway maps?)


You are confusing it with WI-119...the airport spur that was not signed until recently.  There are no signs for WI-341.  I think WI-175 should replace it but I am not sure that is happening.

There is a 'TO/WI 341' sign on a surface access road by Miller Park.

Mike

Ah thank you. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: JREwing78 on September 08, 2013, 09:48:55 AM
So I was wondering to myself, why only designate I-41 up to Green Bay. Why not continue it north to the 41/141 split (it was converted to Interstate-quality highway a few years ago)?

Who knows - this might have come up in this thread already.

So, aside from assigning inflated importance to Abrams, WI, I might have an answer for that one - the weigh station in the median with the left-hand exit and entrance? Except, wait - there's one of these on I-39/US-51, and it didn't stop them.

So now I'm back to having no idea. Anyone else want to take a stab at it?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on September 11, 2013, 12:03:38 PM
I stopped in at the Appleton Pvblic Hearing yesterday (Tuesday, 2013-09-10).

-There were lots of nice display panels with good descriptions of the reasons and 'what nexts'.

-The plan is indeed to maintain US 41 as an official numbered route for the length, with the only visible evidence of 'US 41' to be reassurance markers on the highway mainline - except in most of Milwaukee County, this to help reduce sign clutter.  One of the display panels showed how this would be handled at a generic crossroad interchange.

-IDOT is planning to install a Minnesota-style 'US 41 follow I-41' green sign right after the northbound Skokie Rd merge.  WisDOT is planning that and some other transitional signage on the southbound side in the NW Green Bay area.

-The WisDOT project planner in charge told me that she fully expects WI 341 to be replaced with WI 175 on Miller Park Way south to National Ave (WI 59).

-One of the other WisDOT guys (from the Ashwaubenon office) said that he got a memo on his desk essentially ordering that the I-41 shields on any signs that will be installed before the route becomes official be covered *before* the signs go up.    :spin:   :meh:

-There are no plans for seeking I-41 '3DIs' for roadways such as the US 45 West Bend Spur, WI 441, WI 172, etc. at this time and they will leave that up to future people in charge.

-This is still all contingent on Congress following through with a weight limit 'grandfather' exemption for current US 41 north of metro Milwaukee.  It has passed the USHouse and is now in the Senate.  If it fails to become law, the deal will be off.

-Another of the panels mentioned the cost of changing the signs as being about $9M (give or take a couple of million).  This is for altering nearly 3000 signs in total.

-This will also cause 266 billboards (according to the display panels, the number given in the presentation was 186) to become non-conforming and yes, the ad companies are racing to install as many more as they can before the highway's 'promotion' takes effect so that they can all be grandfathered.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Brandon on September 12, 2013, 03:10:54 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on September 11, 2013, 12:03:38 PM
-IDOT is planning to install a Minnesota-style 'US 41 follow I-41' green sign right after the northbound Skokie Rd merge.  WisDOT is planning that and some other transitional signage on the southbound side in the NW Green Bay area.

Which means that I-41 will exist for less than a mile in Illinois a la US-131 in Indiana.  Somehow I just don't see IDOT playing ball with WisDOT and extending it further (see I-39/I-43).
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on September 12, 2013, 03:23:38 PM
Quote from: Brandon on September 12, 2013, 03:10:54 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on September 11, 2013, 12:03:38 PM
-IDOT is planning to install a Minnesota-style 'US 41 follow I-41' green sign right after the northbound Skokie Rd merge.  WisDOT is planning that and some other transitional signage on the southbound side in the NW Green Bay area.

Which means that I-41 will exist for less than a mile in Illinois a la US-131 in Indiana.  Somehow I just don't see IDOT playing ball with WisDOT and extending it further (see I-39/I-43).


Where would they extend it?  And if they don't, why would you interpret that as "not playing ball with WisDOT?"

And what does this have to do with I-39 and I-43?  My impression was that I-39 existed in Illinois before I-43 from Milwaukee to Beloit was approved. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Brandon on September 12, 2013, 03:35:03 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 12, 2013, 03:23:38 PM
Quote from: Brandon on September 12, 2013, 03:10:54 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on September 11, 2013, 12:03:38 PM
-IDOT is planning to install a Minnesota-style 'US 41 follow I-41' green sign right after the northbound Skokie Rd merge.  WisDOT is planning that and some other transitional signage on the southbound side in the NW Green Bay area.

Which means that I-41 will exist for less than a mile in Illinois a la US-131 in Indiana.  Somehow I just don't see IDOT playing ball with WisDOT and extending it further (see I-39/I-43).


Where would they extend it?  And if they don't, why would you interpret that as "not playing ball with WisDOT?"

And what does this have to do with I-39 and I-43?  My impression was that I-39 existed in Illinois before I-43 from Milwaukee to Beloit was approved. 

WisDOT had wanted to extend I-43 south along what would become I-39 when they went for approval of the Beloit-Milwaukee segment.  I-43 had previous existed from Milwaukee to Green Bay.  I-39 was applied for by IDOT, after ignoring WisDOT's request, in 1988 when the maximum speed limit was increased from 55 mph to 65 mph for interstates only.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: english si on September 12, 2013, 03:56:17 PM
Quote from: Brandon on September 12, 2013, 03:35:03 PMWisDOT had wanted to extend I-43 south along what would become I-39 when they went for approval of the Beloit-Milwaukee segment.  I-43 had previous existed from Milwaukee to Green Bay.  I-39 was applied for by IDOT, after ignoring WisDOT's request, in 1988 when the maximum speed limit was increased from 55 mph to 65 mph for interstates only.
And isn't I-43 only I-43 after IL blocked extending I-57?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on September 12, 2013, 04:05:39 PM
Quote from: Brandon on September 12, 2013, 03:35:03 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 12, 2013, 03:23:38 PM
Quote from: Brandon on September 12, 2013, 03:10:54 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on September 11, 2013, 12:03:38 PM
-IDOT is planning to install a Minnesota-style 'US 41 follow I-41' green sign right after the northbound Skokie Rd merge.  WisDOT is planning that and some other transitional signage on the southbound side in the NW Green Bay area.

Which means that I-41 will exist for less than a mile in Illinois a la US-131 in Indiana.  Somehow I just don't see IDOT playing ball with WisDOT and extending it further (see I-39/I-43).


Where would they extend it?  And if they don't, why would you interpret that as "not playing ball with WisDOT?"

And what does this have to do with I-39 and I-43?  My impression was that I-39 existed in Illinois before I-43 from Milwaukee to Beloit was approved. 

WisDOT had wanted to extend I-43 south along what would become I-39 when they went for approval of the Beloit-Milwaukee segment.  I-43 had previous existed from Milwaukee to Green Bay.  I-39 was applied for by IDOT, after ignoring WisDOT's request, in 1988 when the maximum speed limit was increased from 55 mph to 65 mph for interstates only.


The Illinois Highways page say that the section of I-39 between US-20 and what is now I-88 opened in 1984.  Was it not I-39 at the time?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Brandon on September 12, 2013, 05:06:47 PM
Quote from: english si on September 12, 2013, 03:56:17 PM
Quote from: Brandon on September 12, 2013, 03:35:03 PMWisDOT had wanted to extend I-43 south along what would become I-39 when they went for approval of the Beloit-Milwaukee segment.  I-43 had previous existed from Milwaukee to Green Bay.  I-39 was applied for by IDOT, after ignoring WisDOT's request, in 1988 when the maximum speed limit was increased from 55 mph to 65 mph for interstates only.
And isn't I-43 only I-43 after IL blocked extending I-57?

As a matter of fact, yes.  Wisconsin wanted the I-57 number to be extended north.  Illinois, as usual, decided it knew better.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on September 12, 2013, 05:07:33 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on September 11, 2013, 12:03:38 PM
-The WisDOT project planner in charge told me that she fully expects WI 341 to be replaced with WI 175 on Miller Park Way south to National Ave (WI 59).

And DON'T miss anything!

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs7.postimg.org%2Fm5admf0ej%2FIMG_20130912_074537.jpg&hash=c9e8b4ef20d9b058c544c47005195debb547eb09)

Quote from: mgk920 on September 11, 2013, 12:03:38 PM

-One of the other WisDOT guys (from the Ashwaubenon office) said that he got a memo on his desk essentially ordering that the I-41 shields on any signs that will be installed before the route becomes official be covered *before* the signs go up.    :spin:   :meh:

Hope I didn't get anyone in trouble when I posted those I-41 BGS images.  :cool:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Brandon on September 12, 2013, 05:08:32 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 12, 2013, 04:05:39 PM
The Illinois Highways page say that the section of I-39 between US-20 and what is now I-88 opened in 1984.  Was it not I-39 at the time?

No.  It opened as US-51 and was assigned I-39 later.  Ditto with I-88 being formerly IL-5 until the same year for the same reason.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on September 12, 2013, 05:11:06 PM
Quote from: Brandon on September 12, 2013, 05:08:32 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 12, 2013, 04:05:39 PM
The Illinois Highways page say that the section of I-39 between US-20 and what is now I-88 opened in 1984.  Was it not I-39 at the time?

No.  It opened as US-51 and was assigned I-39 later.  Ditto with I-88 being formerly IL-5 until the same year for the same reason.


OK, thanks for the clarification.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: NE2 on September 12, 2013, 05:13:14 PM
Yet it makes more sense to have I-39 on US 51 in both states. So IDOT did the right thing.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on September 18, 2013, 12:05:30 PM
For those that are interested, the WisDOT I-41 site has been updated with presentation materials from the recent public meetings:

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/neregion/41/public.htm

Of some note is how U.S. 41 will be signed along the route.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mrose on September 23, 2013, 02:13:58 AM
Quote from: Brandon on September 12, 2013, 05:08:32 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 12, 2013, 04:05:39 PM
The Illinois Highways page say that the section of I-39 between US-20 and what is now I-88 opened in 1984.  Was it not I-39 at the time?

No.  It opened as US-51 and was assigned I-39 later.  Ditto with I-88 being formerly IL-5 until the same year for the same reason.

Yes, IIRC, I-39 was applied some time around 1986 or '87 when the segment to I-80 was completed.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on September 23, 2013, 10:41:35 AM
While driving around and exploring the area on Saturday (2013-09-21), it almost looked to me like WisDOT is aiming at opening the high-speed ramps at the WI 29 Shawano Interchange in the Green Bay area (Howard, to be specific) before the end of the year.  Their decks are being poured right now.

Does anyone have any more info on the current construction schedule there?

:hmmm:

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: DaBigE on September 23, 2013, 02:17:02 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on September 23, 2013, 10:41:35 AM
Does anyone have any more info on the current construction schedule there?

:hmmm:

Mike

I don't have time to parse through it at the moment, but I did see a few schedule links for the 41 project here: http://roadwaystandards.dot.wi.gov/hcci/projects/index.shtm (http://roadwaystandards.dot.wi.gov/hcci/projects/index.shtm)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on September 25, 2013, 11:28:41 PM
In light of current events, having the NB->WB and EB->SB ramps open ASAP would be very useful.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Milwaukee, WY on December 12, 2013, 10:43:27 PM
Any news? Or a date we can expect news? Or is this just waiting on congressional approval?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on December 13, 2013, 11:15:17 AM
Still waiting on the Congresscritters.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: davenh on January 03, 2014, 02:43:50 PM
I found a couple more exposed I-41 shields in Milwaukeeland. These are both on Bluemound Rd/US-18 heading west, where it crosses over US-45.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm3.staticflickr.com%2F2880%2F11737102616_fe8b14dfff_o_d.jpg&hash=7f93057ef4c2d06fab58740199a5b23a2ec208ce) (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.staticflickr.com%2F3811%2F11736344585_74f33657f7_o_d.jpg&hash=64f1afb20bc6d560408f9eb2623cde2da00d2bfe)

I have also seen signs on North Ave in Wauwatosa, just west of Mayfair Rd/Hwy 100. Most of them are turned around backwards so you just see the back, but one that was exposed was a "North I-41 Use Right Lane / North US-45 Use Right Lane" sign. Unfortunately I wasn't quick or smart enough to get a picture of that.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on January 05, 2014, 08:43:42 PM
I like that I-41 is the product of folks up in the Fox Valley, but the first signs are appearing down in Milwaukee (thanks to the Zoo Interchange project.)  It's the roadgeek equivalent of "First!"

Seems like someone should be keeping their eyes open for I-41 shields popping up amidst the freeway expansion project in Green Bay.  Especially on whatever new BGS's go up at the WI 29 interchange.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hobsini2 on January 07, 2014, 10:34:36 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 05, 2014, 08:43:42 PM
I like that I-41 is the product of folks up in the Fox Valley, but the first signs are appearing down in Milwaukee (thanks to the Zoo Interchange project.)  It's the roadgeek equivalent of "First!"

Seems like someone should be keeping their eyes open for I-41 shields popping up amidst the freeway expansion project in Green Bay.  Especially on whatever new BGS's go up at the WI 29 interchange.

That sounds like a job for MGK since he's in Appleton. lol
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on January 07, 2014, 11:15:56 AM
Quote from: hobsini2 on January 07, 2014, 10:34:36 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 05, 2014, 08:43:42 PM
I like that I-41 is the product of folks up in the Fox Valley, but the first signs are appearing down in Milwaukee (thanks to the Zoo Interchange project.)  It's the roadgeek equivalent of "First!"

Seems like someone should be keeping their eyes open for I-41 shields popping up amidst the freeway expansion project in Green Bay.  Especially on whatever new BGS's go up at the WI 29 interchange.

That sounds like a job for MGK since he's in Appleton. lol

Nothing so far that I've seen (WisDOT's Green Bay office is pretty up on keeping this under wraps), but I likely will be heading up to Green Bay area on Thursday to check out the reopened I-43 bridge.  I'll look around a bit.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on January 09, 2014, 09:12:41 PM
I took a quick drive around in the Green Bay area today, no signs of I-41 to be found.

I did note that WisDOT is wasting zero time in getting at the rebuild of the US(I)-41/I-43/US 141 (Howard) interchange - nearly all of the piers for its flyover ramp bridging are already in various stages of construction, and those ramps will be loooong!  When done, it will be as or even more impressive than the US(I)-41/WI 29 Shawano interchange already is.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: NE2 on January 09, 2014, 09:26:36 PM
So much for that one guy's claim that I-43 could never be extended north from Green Bay because the ramps are too sharp and will never be replaced or something.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on January 10, 2014, 07:02:55 PM
Quote from: NE2 on January 09, 2014, 09:26:36 PM
So much for that one guy's claim that I-43 could never be extended north from Green Bay because the ramps are too sharp and will never be replaced or something.

The junction is in the middle of a huge wetland, however the new design allows for more wetland to be restored than will be taken.  That's probably what he was talking about.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: OCGuy81 on February 08, 2014, 11:55:55 PM
QuoteFrom the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinal:

"A plan to upgrade state Highway 41 into an interstate is moving forward ahead of schedule and could be complete by the fall of 2014."

http://www.jsonline.com/news/traffic/highway-41s-upgrade-to-interstate-is-ahead-of-schedule-b9962583z1-217438721.html

What's of note is a blurb at the end mentioning that plans call for extending WI-175 down to the Stadium interchange.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but when this is completed, Wisconsin would be the only state that has 2 interstate triple concurrencies?  There's I-39/90/94 and now they'll have I-41/43/894?

Of course, this probably warrants a discussion of whether or not I-894 is worth keeping as a designation at all, something I've wondered since 43 was extended to Beloit a few decades ago.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: vtk on February 09, 2014, 10:30:12 AM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 08, 2014, 11:55:55 PM
Of course, this probably warrants a discussion of whether or not I-894 is worth keeping as a designation at all, something I've wondered since 43 was extended to Beloit a few decades ago.

We've had that discussion. We've had it in this very thread, as I recall.  The guys local to that area seem to favor keeping 894.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on February 09, 2014, 11:50:40 AM
894 is purely symbolic as is (I-)41.  The former is to mark a bypass around Milwaukee's downtown for those incoming from north and west.  I-41 is a marketing ploy by the state to "get the Fox Cities on the map". I personally don't believe that designation should go any further than the Zoo interchange.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Jim920 on February 09, 2014, 10:29:15 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on February 09, 2014, 11:50:40 AM
894 is purely symbolic as is (I-)41.  The former is to mark a bypass around Milwaukee's downtown for those incoming from north and west.  I-41 is a marketing ploy by the state to "get the Fox Cities on the map". I personally don't believe that designation should go any further than the Zoo interchange.

I'm, surprised IDOT even went along with the starting point for I-41.  If you're on I-94 all of a sudden I-41 will just appear in an unusual spot.  I wonder if IDOT will even bother signing it, which will make if even more weird if they don't, I-41 will just begin and end at the state line.  I agree I-41 shouldn't go any further then the Zoo Interchange, maybe to the Hale but i just seems stupid to go any further then that.  Personally I think it should have been an even spur of I-43, or since Texas was able to get I-69C/W/E why not just make it I-43W and the current I-43 becomes I-43E.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: english si on February 10, 2014, 08:58:23 AM
If you are going to have US41(I-), to use British nonclamature, then surely I-41 should supercede US41 for all the section that is part of the Interstate system.

From that last exit in IL, to the Zoo Interchange, you are going to have I-41 or US41 - why not I-41?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on February 10, 2014, 11:44:35 AM
Yeah, I think the proposed number and southern endpoints make perfect sense.  And really IDOT won't have to invest heavily in signage.  US-41 heads off less than a mile and a half south of the WI line.  You are talking about a BGS or two and a reassurance marker.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on February 10, 2014, 12:50:04 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 08, 2014, 11:55:55 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when this is completed, Wisconsin would be the only state that has 2 interstate triple concurrencies?  There's I-39/90/94 and now they'll have I-41/43/894?

Once the new bridge opens in St. Louis, Wisconsin will be the ONLY state with ANY triple concurrencies.  For a time at least.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Joe The Dragon on February 10, 2014, 08:59:25 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 10, 2014, 11:44:35 AM
Yeah, I think the proposed number and southern endpoints make perfect sense.  And really IDOT won't have to invest heavily in signage.  US-41 heads off less than a mile and a half south of the WI line.  You are talking about a BGS or two and a reassurance marker.

I think that the tollway does maintenance on that small free part of I-94 / US 41
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: vtk on February 11, 2014, 05:38:53 AM
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on February 10, 2014, 08:59:25 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 10, 2014, 11:44:35 AM
Yeah, I think the proposed number and southern endpoints make perfect sense.  And really IDOT won't have to invest heavily in signage.  US-41 heads off less than a mile and a half south of the WI line.  You are talking about a BGS or two and a reassurance marker.

I think that the tollway does maintenance on that small free part of I-94 / US 41

Easy way to tell is to look at the broken white lane lines:
ISTHA: – – – – –
IDOT: –   –   –
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Alps on February 11, 2014, 09:44:01 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 10, 2014, 12:50:04 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 08, 2014, 11:55:55 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when this is completed, Wisconsin would be the only state that has 2 interstate triple concurrencies?  There's I-39/90/94 and now they'll have I-41/43/894?

Once the new bridge opens in St. Louis, Wisconsin will be the ONLY state with ANY triple concurrencies.  For a time at least.
NC sure comes close with the I-73/I-74 mess. Almost had I-40/73/85 until they chickened out.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: NE2 on February 14, 2014, 09:51:26 PM
Quote from: Alps on February 11, 2014, 09:44:01 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 10, 2014, 12:50:04 PM
Once the new bridge opens in St. Louis, Wisconsin will be the ONLY state with ANY triple concurrencies.  For a time at least.
NC sure comes close with the I-73/I-74 mess. Almost had I-40/73/85 until they chickened out.
Not quite - I-73 uses the C/D roads on both sides of I-85.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Joe The Dragon on February 14, 2014, 10:03:19 PM
Quote from: vtk on February 11, 2014, 05:38:53 AM
Quote from: Joe The Dragon on February 10, 2014, 08:59:25 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on February 10, 2014, 11:44:35 AM
Yeah, I think the proposed number and southern endpoints make perfect sense.  And really IDOT won't have to invest heavily in signage.  US-41 heads off less than a mile and a half south of the WI line.  You are talking about a BGS or two and a reassurance marker.

I think that the tollway does maintenance on that small free part of I-94 / US 41

Easy way to tell is to look at the broken white lane lines:
ISTHA: – – – – –
IDOT: –   –   –
right now that part is a big work zone

--quote fix -- ms
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: CtrlAltDel on February 17, 2014, 04:09:57 AM
Quote from: vtk on February 11, 2014, 05:38:53 AM

Easy way to tell is to look at the broken white lane lines:
ISTHA: – – – – –
IDOT: –   –   –

I recently noted that. Does anyone know why the Tollway paints the lines as it does?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Brandon on February 17, 2014, 12:52:15 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on February 17, 2014, 04:09:57 AM
Quote from: vtk on February 11, 2014, 05:38:53 AM

Easy way to tell is to look at the broken white lane lines:
ISTHA: – – – – –
IDOT: –   –   –

I recently noted that. Does anyone know why the Tollway paints the lines as it does?

No idea.  The NJTP does the same thing.  Personally, I like them (1:1) better than what I've seen in most places (1:3).
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Alps on February 17, 2014, 08:32:55 PM
Quote from: Brandon on February 17, 2014, 12:52:15 PM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on February 17, 2014, 04:09:57 AM
Quote from: vtk on February 11, 2014, 05:38:53 AM

Easy way to tell is to look at the broken white lane lines:
ISTHA: – – – – –
IDOT: –   –   –

I recently noted that. Does anyone know why the Tollway paints the lines as it does?

No idea.  The NJTP does the same thing.  Personally, I like them (1:1) better than what I've seen in most places (1:3).
NJTA says the 25/25 are more visible to truckers than the 10/30. Of course, there are many other roads with high truck percentages (Indiana Toll Road, for example) that use the standard 10/30.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: DevalDragon on February 18, 2014, 11:31:17 PM
The Illinois Tollway and Indiana Toll Road do as well.

IDOT uses reflectors, but ISTHA does not - perhaps they think the longer lines serve the same purpose?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Brandon on February 19, 2014, 03:07:48 PM
Quote from: DevalDragon on February 18, 2014, 11:31:17 PM
The Illinois Tollway and Indiana Toll Road do as well.

IDOT uses reflectors, but ISTHA does not - perhaps they think the longer lines serve the same purpose?

ISTHA does indeed have reflectors, just not everywhere.  A good percentage of their mileage is lighted at night.  Most of their reflectors seem to be on curves in the lighted areas such as along I-355 by I-88.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Alps on February 19, 2014, 06:39:07 PM
Quote from: DevalDragon on February 18, 2014, 11:31:17 PM
The Illinois Tollway and Indiana Toll Road do as well.

IDOT uses reflectors, but ISTHA does not - perhaps they think the longer lines serve the same purpose?
Well, if I knew that about Indiana, I would have contacted them a year or two ago to find out if they had a reason!
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: JoePCool14 on February 27, 2014, 09:43:33 PM
I think that IDOT's lines are probably better, because I do not find it necessary to use that much paint.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: skluth on March 06, 2014, 12:21:24 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on February 10, 2014, 12:50:04 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on February 08, 2014, 11:55:55 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when this is completed, Wisconsin would be the only state that has 2 interstate triple concurrencies?  There's I-39/90/94 and now they'll have I-41/43/894?

Once the new bridge opens in St. Louis, Wisconsin will be the ONLY state with ANY triple concurrencies.  For a time at least.

The new Mississippi River bridge in STL carrying I-70 is now open.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on April 27, 2014, 09:53:11 PM
So, any updates on I-41? As far as I've heard, the Senate hasn't voted on the House-approved waiver yet (guess they're still trying to repeal healthcare). So far, all I've seen is covered-up signs on Greenfield Av, North Av and Blue Mound Rd.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on April 27, 2014, 11:32:37 PM
There's some "oranged out" construction signs along westbound 94 and westbound 894.  I also noticed a few covered up signs along WI-175 in Dodge county (I think I saw one in Lomira).
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: halork on May 17, 2014, 03:32:20 AM
So, I'm hoping to see I-41 signage this summer when I'm up for vacation.  Anything moving to get the signage accomplished this summer?  :hmmm:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on May 17, 2014, 08:44:08 AM
not likely - haven't heard a peep.  I assume the change is still tied up in Congress
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: roadman65 on May 17, 2014, 08:52:52 AM
I do not understand why it is being signed concurrent with I-94 into Illinois.  To me that is a useless overlap, as Illinois has no intention of continuing the route from where it will end just south of the WI-IL State Line.  Heck it does not even intersect another major roadway at point of termination.

Why not just end it at the Zoo Interchange and just run from Milwaukee to Green Bay?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on May 17, 2014, 09:09:51 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on May 17, 2014, 08:52:52 AM
I do not understand why it is being signed concurrent with I-94 into Illinois.  To me that is a useless overlap, as Illinois has no intention of continuing the route from where it will end just south of the WI-IL State Line.  Heck it does not even intersect another major roadway at point of termination.

Why not just end it at the Zoo Interchange and just run from Milwaukee to Green Bay?


Because its north endpoint will be at US-41 north of Green Bay...and its south endpoint will be at US-41 just south of the WI/IL border.  I-41 is basically replacing US-41 for its entire length except for the Milwaukee area.  For instance, US-41 duplexes with I-94 from Milwaukee into Illinois already.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: roadman65 on May 17, 2014, 09:22:08 AM
Yeah I understand that part, but it makes no sense to have it end in the middle of nowhere along a concurrency already.

At is northern end is understandable as it is not concurrent with another interstate number.  It ends just like I-39 or even I-35 does for that matter.  It would be like extending I-80 into NY via I-95 and it dropping at the point where I-95 changes from the Bruckner Expressway to the NE Thruway.  If I-80 were to end, lets say, at I-87 along I-95's way that would make sense somewhat, but to do it at the Pelham Parkway would be totally useless. 

It is better just to make it end at I-94 and I-894 and just leave the rest as is unless Illinois picks it up to go further south.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on May 17, 2014, 04:35:08 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on May 17, 2014, 09:22:08 AM
Yeah I understand that part, but it makes no sense to have it end in the middle of nowhere along a concurrency already.

At is northern end is understandable as it is not concurrent with another interstate number.  It ends just like I-39 or even I-35 does for that matter.  It would be like extending I-80 into NY via I-95 and it dropping at the point where I-95 changes from the Bruckner Expressway to the NE Thruway.  If I-80 were to end, lets say, at I-87 along I-95's way that would make sense somewhat, but to do it at the Pelham Parkway would be totally useless. 

It is better just to make it end at I-94 and I-894 and just leave the rest as is unless Illinois picks it up to go further south.


I-41 will end at US-41.  It's unusual, but I understand why they did it.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on May 17, 2014, 04:41:28 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on May 17, 2014, 09:22:08 AM
Yeah I understand that part, but it makes no sense to have it end in the middle of nowhere along a concurrency already.

At is northern end is understandable as it is not concurrent with another interstate number.  It ends just like I-39 or even I-35 does for that matter.  It would be like extending I-80 into NY via I-95 and it dropping at the point where I-95 changes from the Bruckner Expressway to the NE Thruway.  If I-80 were to end, lets say, at I-87 along I-95's way that would make sense somewhat, but to do it at the Pelham Parkway would be totally useless. 

It is better just to make it end at I-94 and I-894 and just leave the rest as is unless Illinois picks it up to go further south.

The planned 'I-41' routing is a very popular through traffic routing.  An amazing amount of overhead traffic uses it between the Wisconsin's Fox River Valley (Oshkosh, Appleton, et al - 400-500K population in total) and points south (ie, Chicagoland and beyond) and this would give that traffic's logical corridor a single route number.

In fact, until this interstate proposal became likely, I was constantly hounding WisDOT to reroute US 41 to that corridor since the 1980s - just to help keep unfamiliar people from getting lost while transiting Milwaukee County.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on May 22, 2014, 01:05:16 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on May 17, 2014, 09:22:08 AM
Yeah I understand that part, but it makes no sense to have it end in the middle of nowhere along a concurrency already.

At is northern end is understandable as it is not concurrent with another interstate number.  It ends just like I-39 or even I-35 does for that matter.  It would be like extending I-80 into NY via I-95 and it dropping at the point where I-95 changes from the Bruckner Expressway to the NE Thruway.  If I-80 were to end, lets say, at I-87 along I-95's way that would make sense somewhat, but to do it at the Pelham Parkway would be totally useless. 

It is better just to make it end at I-94 and I-894 and just leave the rest as is unless Illinois picks it up to go further south.

One of the reasons is to avoid replacing the mile markers and exit numbers.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: billtm on May 22, 2014, 04:19:15 PM
Will Interstate 894 be decommissioned? :confused:

On another note, it seems like it would make much more sense grid wise that I-41 follow current I-43 from Milwaukee to Green Bay, while I-43 follow future I-41 from Milwaukee to Green Bay. In that case, I-894 definitely wouldn't be decommissioned.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Brandon on May 22, 2014, 04:29:52 PM
Quote from: billtm on May 22, 2014, 04:19:15 PM
Will Interstate 894 be decommissioned? :confused:

On another note, it seems like it would make much more sense grid wise that I-41 follow current I-43 from Milwaukee to Green Bay, while I-43 follow future I-41 from Milwaukee to Green Bay. In that case, I-894 definitely wouldn't be decommissioned.

WTF!?!  Grid-wise, I-41 should be west of I-43, and that is the plan as far as I have seen for Milwaukee to Green Bay.

As for decommissioning I-894, since the original reason for I-894 was a bypass of downtown Milwaukee (I-94), I suspect it will stay.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: billtm on May 22, 2014, 08:25:43 PM
Quote from: Brandon on May 22, 2014, 04:29:52 PM
Quote from: billtm on May 22, 2014, 04:19:15 PM
Will Interstate 894 be decommissioned? :confused:

On another note, it seems like it would make much more sense grid wise that I-41 follow current I-43 from Milwaukee to Green Bay, while I-43 follow future I-41 from Milwaukee to Green Bay. In that case, I-894 definitely wouldn't be decommissioned.

WTF!?!  Grid-wise, I-41 should be west of I-43, and that is the plan as far as I have seen for Milwaukee to Green Bay.

As for decommissioning I-894, since the original reason for I-894 was a bypass of downtown Milwaukee (I-94), I suspect it will stay.
Sorry! I didn't know what I was thinking! :banghead: I drank way too much coffee. :wow: Also, its finals week...
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on May 23, 2014, 12:58:33 PM
Quote from: billtm on May 22, 2014, 08:25:43 PM
Quote from: Brandon on May 22, 2014, 04:29:52 PM
Quote from: billtm on May 22, 2014, 04:19:15 PM
Will Interstate 894 be decommissioned? :confused:

On another note, it seems like it would make much more sense grid wise that I-41 follow current I-43 from Milwaukee to Green Bay, while I-43 follow future I-41 from Milwaukee to Green Bay. In that case, I-894 definitely wouldn't be decommissioned.

WTF!?!  Grid-wise, I-41 should be west of I-43, and that is the plan as far as I have seen for Milwaukee to Green Bay.

As for decommissioning I-894, since the original reason for I-894 was a bypass of downtown Milwaukee (I-94), I suspect it will stay.
Sorry! I didn't know what I was thinking! :banghead: I drank way too much coffee. :wow: Also, its finals week...


If it makes you feel better, they will actually be "violating" the grid south of Milwaukee.     :D
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on May 23, 2014, 08:56:52 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 23, 2014, 12:58:33 PM
Quote from: billtm on May 22, 2014, 08:25:43 PM
Quote from: Brandon on May 22, 2014, 04:29:52 PM
Quote from: billtm on May 22, 2014, 04:19:15 PM
Will Interstate 894 be decommissioned? :confused:

On another note, it seems like it would make much more sense grid wise that I-41 follow current I-43 from Milwaukee to Green Bay, while I-43 follow future I-41 from Milwaukee to Green Bay. In that case, I-894 definitely wouldn't be decommissioned.

WTF!?!  Grid-wise, I-41 should be west of I-43, and that is the plan as far as I have seen for Milwaukee to Green Bay.

As for decommissioning I-894, since the original reason for I-894 was a bypass of downtown Milwaukee (I-94), I suspect it will stay.
Sorry! I didn't know what I was thinking! :banghead: I drank way too much coffee. :wow: Also, its finals week...


If it makes you feel better, they will actually be "violating" the grid south of Milwaukee.     :D

Fingernails on a chalkboard!

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on May 28, 2014, 02:55:47 PM
894 is staying in all its glorious redundancy.  It will become BGS clutter in my opinion.  If avoiding confusion is the rationale for keeping it (which I believe is the case) then I would argue that keeping 894 around is going to lead to more confusion rather than less.  More stuff to read and decipher on the signs for out of town motorists.

All the commotion about US 41 and I-41 and the illogical southern terminus is thanks to an original sin of numbering the system in this region.  I've gone over this many times, but the Chicago to Milwaukee interstate should've been one of the north-south ones that ends in Chicago that could then have been extended later to Green Bay via the coast.  I-94 would exist in two chunks either side of Lake Michigan much like US 16 used to.  The Detroit to Chicagoland would have been I-92.  Then today we'd be talking about adding I-47 or I-43 to US 41 in Wisconsin.  (It also leaves 96 free for the fictional section ;) )
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on May 28, 2014, 03:09:27 PM
Plus then you could have avoided the long I-39/90/94 triple multiplex by having the Milwaukee to Beloit interstate, and the IL portion of I-39, as one number.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: TheStranger on May 28, 2014, 03:19:26 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 28, 2014, 02:55:47 PM
894 is staying in all its glorious redundancy.  It will become BGS clutter in my opinion.  If avoiding confusion is the rationale for keeping it (which I believe is the case) then I would argue that keeping 894 around is going to lead to more confusion rather than less.  More stuff to read and decipher on the signs for out of town motor

But to some extent isn't there precedent for this with the 495/95 duplex that was restored on the Capital Beltway?

Though not the entire route, the 96/275 duplex in metro Detroit that represents the entire northern portion of 275 (due to the cancellation of the extension to Pontiac) is also pretty well-established.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Brandon on May 28, 2014, 03:48:14 PM
Quote from: TheStranger on May 28, 2014, 03:19:26 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 28, 2014, 02:55:47 PM
894 is staying in all its glorious redundancy.  It will become BGS clutter in my opinion.  If avoiding confusion is the rationale for keeping it (which I believe is the case) then I would argue that keeping 894 around is going to lead to more confusion rather than less.  More stuff to read and decipher on the signs for out of town motor

But to some extent isn't there precedent for this with the 495/95 duplex that was restored on the Capital Beltway?

Though not the entire route, the 96/275 duplex in metro Detroit that represents the entire northern portion of 275 (due to the cancellation of the extension to Pontiac) is also pretty well-established.

True, and no one calls it I-96 there.  The north-south part is always I-275.  :-D
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on May 30, 2014, 12:11:31 AM
Quote from: TheStranger on May 28, 2014, 03:19:26 PM
But to some extent isn't there precedent for this with the 495/95 duplex that was restored on the Capital Beltway?

Though not the entire route, the 96/275 duplex in metro Detroit that represents the entire northern portion of 275 (due to the cancellation of the extension to Pontiac) is also pretty well-established.
Or 94/694 in the Twin Cities.
But none of those examples encompass the entire 3di. That's what makes keeping 894 foolish in my mind.  I'm hoping we will end up having a transition period where in a few years, it will be decided to "phase out" 894.
Another thing to keep in mind is 894 is signed east-west, so along the "Airport Freeway" (that's the existing 43/894 concurrency*) you will soon be traveling Northbound, Southbound and Westbound all at the same time while bypassing MKE toward Madison, for example.  The wrong way concurrency is potentially confusing enough without throwing another cardinal direction into the mix.
The sensible action is to remove 894 from the picture and hand as many of the signs over to me as will fit in my available storage. :)


*(I've never liked the name "Airport" for that freeway.  Yeah, you can go towards the airport on it, but no more so than any other freeway in Milwaukee.  It doesn't go right past the airport.  Then there's also the "Airport Spur" which is the actual freeway into the actual airport, further confusing matters.  A more appropriate name would be the "Greenfield Freeway" since it spends most of its existence in that particular suburb.)

Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 28, 2014, 03:09:27 PM
Plus then you could have avoided the long I-39/90/94 triple multiplex by having the Milwaukee to Beloit interstate, and the IL portion of I-39, as one number.
Indeed.  First, I like to start with I-39 numbered something higher like 47 or 53.  Then it is first extended from Rockford to MKE via Beloit in the 80's.  In the 90's the same forces that got I-39 extended to Wausau instead bring in a new number; either 39 or 43. (Recall that I-50-something runs north from Chicago to Milwaukee to Green Bay already.) As US 41's freeway conversion wraps up in the early 00's, it makes for a natural extension of 47 or 53.  So 894 stays put, there is no wrong-way concurrency and no triplemultiplex(es) (and my username is something else.)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: vtk on May 30, 2014, 12:37:32 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 30, 2014, 12:11:31 AM
Another thing to keep in mind is 894 is signed east-west, so along the "Airport Freeway" (that's the existing 43/894 concurrency*) you will soon be traveling Northbound, Southbound and Westbound all at the same time while bypassing MKE toward Madison, for example.  The wrong way concurrency is potentially confusing enough without throwing another cardinal direction into the mix.

I've actually heard that as an argument to keep 894. Without it, you have an east-west freeway that's signed north/south-south/north. That's not useful at all.  With 894's east-west, a disoriented driver has a better clue which way he's going.  When confronted with three distinct cardinal directions, the logical best guess is to let the opposites cancel each other out, and take the remaining direction at face value.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on May 31, 2014, 03:26:03 PM
I get the feeling that I-894 will be removed once motorists warm up to the idea of I-41. I realized just last week how confusing 894/43 is with just two cardinal directions when I took the wrong exit from EB Forest Home Av. Perhaps signs saying either "to Airport/Chicago" and "to Beloit/Madison" would help.

I-894's removal was proposed a few years back by Milwaukee's then-mayor (and avid freeway hater) John Norquist. In his scenario, I-94 would follow the bypass, I-43 would be signed alone to downtown and current I-94 west of downtown to the Zoo Interchange would be ea extension of I-794. The plan didn't fly though, and a reconstructed Marquette Interchange solved most of the traffic problems in downtown.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on June 09, 2014, 04:26:52 PM
Caught a glimpse of the reconstruction of the last substandard interchange on future I-41 outside of Milwaukee on a recent plane ride.  This is the WI 144 exit in Slinger.  This should be the last of the original interchanges on US 41 from when it was built as a four lane expressway in the 50's.  All others have been rebuilt, replaced or upgraded.
The only segment I am unsure about is up near Mike around Kaukauna.  Anything left from when that part first opened in the 60's?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: skluth on June 09, 2014, 05:00:18 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on June 09, 2014, 04:26:52 PM
The only segment I am unsure about is up near Mike around Kaukauna.  Anything left from when that part first opened in the 60's?

I grew up in Green Bay and still go up there occasionally. US 41 has been upgraded to freeway between WI 26 and Abrams. I go up via Madison/Rosendale so I have no idea what 41 is like south of Oshkosh. There are still some substandard and incomplete interchanges, notably US 10/WI 441. I'll be happy when all the construction is done.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on June 10, 2014, 11:34:43 AM
Quote from: skluth on June 09, 2014, 05:00:18 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on June 09, 2014, 04:26:52 PM
The only segment I am unsure about is up near Mike around Kaukauna.  Anything left from when that part first opened in the 60's?

I grew up in Green Bay and still go up there occasionally. US 41 has been upgraded to freeway between WI 26 and Abrams. I go up via Madison/Rosendale so I have no idea what 41 is like south of Oshkosh. There are still some substandard and incomplete interchanges, notably US 10/WI 441. I'll be happy when all the construction is done.

That east-west part between what is now WI 15 (Northland Ave in the northwest Appleton area) to a bit northeast of County 'J' in Kaukauna was close to I-standards when it was first built and opened in 1960.  It was one of the first parts of US 41 north of Milwaukee to become a true freeway.  All it needed was shoulder paving and its crossroad bridge clearances raised to bring it up to full modern interstate standards.  WisDOT also recently installed a series of 'guidewire' cables in its median.  Aside from that work, a few crossroad bridge replacements in the Appleton area to handle modern levels of street traffic due to urban growth, the addition of WI 441 and mainline resurfacings over the years, it is still essentially in its original form.  All of the bridges on that section where US(I)-41 crosses over something else are still the original 1960 structures.

Interestingly, within a couple of months of the bridge at the County 'J' interchange being jacked up to modern interstate clearance over US(I)-41 a few years ago - it was hit and seriously damaged by an overheight truck.

:-o

:-P

BTW, all of US 41 between Milwaukee and the US 141 split at Abrams is freeway.  The last crossroad intersections (they were between Kaukauna and De Pere) were cut off in about 2000.  The last one south of Appleton (it was just northwest of Fond du Lac) was cut off in the mid-late 1990s.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on June 10, 2014, 03:13:04 PM
About 15 years ago, they still had some driveways w/mailboxes on US-41 just south of Green Bay.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on June 11, 2014, 08:30:32 AM
release from Petri's office:

For Immediate Release: June 10, 2014
Contact: Lee Brooks, (202) 225-2476, lee.brooks@mail.house.gov

Provision to Move Highway 41 Interstate Forward Passes House
Petri Says Allowing Currently-Operating Trucks to Continue Using Road Once It Becomes an Interstate is Final Step in Process

Washington, D.C.–Today, the U.S. House of Representatives passed legislation that included a provision to ensure that trucks currently using Highway 41 in Wisconsin will continue to be able to operate on it once the road becomes an Interstate.  A similar bill was first introduced by Reps. Tom Petri (R-WI) and Reid Ribble (R-WI), both members of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee, and passed by the House on July 22, 2013.

"This is the last step in the process that's needed for Highway 41 between Milwaukee and Green Bay to finally become an Interstate,"  said Petri, who is the chairman of the House Highways and Transit Subcommittee.

"Highway 41 is the major artery through the Fox Valley, and the highway has been on track to become an Interstate for almost a decade.  Highway 41 is a huge part of our regional economy and millions of dollars in economic activity depend on a fully-functioning road, so it's important that commerce and transportation not be adversely impacted during this transition."

The provision was included as part of H.R. 4745, the Transportation, Housing and Urban Development, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, for Fiscal Year 2015.  The Senate is still considering its version of the appropriations bill.

The Wisconsin Department of Transportation has stated that all other requirements have been met and it is prepared to formally seek the Interstate designation from the U.S. Department of Transportation once this provision becomes law.

Under federal law, trucks over 80,000 lbs. in gross vehicle weight cannot operate on Interstate highways.  Many have raised concerns that this federal weight limit would harm the local economy in Wisconsin and pose safety risks for communities because oversized trucks would be forced to use local roadways.

The provision in the Transportation Appropriations bill would grandfather in currently-operating trucks when Highway 41 is designated as part of the Interstate Highway System.  Similar provisions have been enacted for Interstate highway designations, such as I-39 in Wisconsin and I-99 in Pennsylvania.  Governor Scott Walker, state legislators, local communities, and business groups have expressed support for Petri and Ribble's bill.  U.S. Senators Tammy Baldwin (D-WI) and Ron Johnson (R-WI) have introduced identical legislation in the Senate.

"What we're saying is simply that if you can operate now, you can operate in the future,"  said Petri.

Highway 41 is the main thorough way through central Wisconsin from Milwaukee to Green Bay.  Twenty-three percent of the state's manufacturing, retail, and wholesale businesses are located along Highway 41, and the highway is responsible for generating 29% of Wisconsin's tourism dollars.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on June 11, 2014, 08:46:35 AM
Since it's part of the FY2015 budget, does that mean it won't become law until October and signing can't start until then?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: vtk on June 11, 2014, 11:30:22 AM
How does future motor carrier enforcement determine if a specific truck was operating on highway 41 before it became an Interstate?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on June 11, 2014, 05:38:56 PM
IIRC, it 'grandfathers' the current weight limits.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Big John on June 23, 2014, 07:52:52 PM
US 41/WI 29 flyover ramps to be open to traffic on Thursday: http://fox11online.com/2014/06/23/new-hwy-4129-ramps-to-open-thursday/
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: davenh on July 02, 2014, 11:22:27 AM
I saw some interesting signs on my morning commute. On I-43 North coming out of downtown Milwaukee, I saw them posting route signs for Alternate I-41/US-41/US-45 (presumably to bypass the Zoo Interchange construction). I'll try to get a picture of this in the next couple of days (and hope that they don't quickly cover the I-41 parts in the meantime).
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on July 02, 2014, 02:55:17 PM
Quote from: davenh on July 02, 2014, 11:22:27 AM
I saw some interesting signs on my morning commute. On I-43 North coming out of downtown Milwaukee, I saw them posting route signs for Alternate I-41/US-41/US-45 (presumably to bypass the Zoo Interchange construction). I'll try to get a picture of this in the next couple of days (and hope that they don't quickly cover the I-41 parts in the meantime).

Wisconsin likes to designate alternate routes for all their interstates. That's why there are  "alternate I-94" signs on US 45 to Capitol Drive westbound.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on July 02, 2014, 03:41:45 PM
Why is that, i wonder? I never understood the reasoning behind having an Alternate route...i can see in the Milwaukee area where traffic is generally backed up quite a bit but say in Sheboygan, Fond du Lac, Oshkosh--well ok i can see Oshkosh during EAA but still...
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: DaBigE on July 02, 2014, 05:55:27 PM
Quote from: merrycilantro on July 02, 2014, 03:41:45 PM
Why is that, i wonder? I never understood the reasoning behind having an Alternate route...i can see in the Milwaukee area where traffic is generally backed up quite a bit but say in Sheboygan, Fond du Lac, Oshkosh--well ok i can see Oshkosh during EAA but still...

It's all part of their overall incident management planning (WisDOT Time Program (http://www.dot.state.wi.us/travel/stoc/time.htm)). Like the ramp gates that are being installed in many areas across the state, it's all about reducing the man-power needed during an incident. Gates and permanent signs are cheaper than posting a squad at each location.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on July 03, 2014, 10:27:50 AM
That makes sense as to why they recently put those gates up at the Freeway entrances in Fond du Lac. US 151 got them as well as Johnson St (Wis 23)...I can't recall offhand if the other 2 exits in town got them or not but i know the first 2 did. Never understood why, but that makes sense.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: davenh on July 03, 2014, 10:53:36 AM
As promised, here's the (Alternate) I-41 signage. This was clicked on I-43 N at Capitol Dr. in Milwaukee.

I imagine they're adding these to help and bypass the Zoo Interchange construction. There are also similar Alternate I-94 signs that start at the Mitchell Interchange, go west on I-894 onto I-43 S, then exit at Moorland Rd. and continue north to rejoin I-94 in Brookfield.

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3855/14378810599_8bf7bf73e7_h.jpg)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: agentsteel53 on July 03, 2014, 11:22:05 AM
any state-named shields pop up by accident?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on July 03, 2014, 11:27:26 AM
Sweet!!! Nice Picture!

That white 41 looks pretty sharp on that blue background!!!
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: davenh on July 03, 2014, 04:17:36 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 03, 2014, 11:22:05 AM
any state-named shields pop up by accident?

None on any of the signs I have seen so far, which now include (all in the Milwaukee area):
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: DaBigE on July 03, 2014, 06:46:20 PM
Quote from: merrycilantro on July 03, 2014, 10:27:50 AM
That makes sense as to why they recently put those gates up at the Freeway entrances in Fond du Lac. US 151 got them as well as Johnson St (Wis 23)...I can't recall offhand if the other 2 exits in town got them or not but i know the first 2 did. Never understood why, but that makes sense.

According to GSV, yes, they did. With US 41 turning into an Interstate, I'd be very surprised if they didn't. Somewhere on the link I provided previously, WisDOT lists the criteria for when gates get installed vs. installing a barricade rack. IIRC, the main stipulation is AADT.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on July 04, 2014, 11:29:54 AM
As of yesterday, the Alt I-41 shields are covered up along I-43.   :-/
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: davenh on July 04, 2014, 06:16:18 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on July 04, 2014, 11:29:54 AM
As of yesterday, the Alt I-41 shields are covered up along I-43.   :-/

I'm glad I got a look when I did, then. I also saw Alt I-41 signs on I-94 EB out in Waukesha/Pewaukee, directing traffic to exit at WI-164 NB.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Stratuscaster on July 04, 2014, 09:07:22 PM
Are the US-41 and US-45 shields shaped a bit differently on that "alt" sign?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: jreuschl on July 09, 2014, 08:46:32 AM
I wonder if the 'alt' signs confuse any motorists who can easily be confused.. :) Wait, the interstate continues at this exit!?

SPH-L900
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on July 09, 2014, 08:59:18 AM
Just heard on 101.1 WIXX (Green Bay) this morning that they are beginning the signing of Interstate 41 in Milwaukee. Though the radio people had no clue as to what the schematics of the transition from USH 41 to I-41 were, it was exciting to hear. Can anybody down there confirm?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on July 09, 2014, 11:55:37 AM
Here's the story WITI did last week:
http://fox6now.com/2014/07/03/have-you-seen-the-signs-for-interstate-41-why-theyre-not-a-mistake/
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on July 09, 2014, 04:34:02 PM
I suppose, it's not as big a deal in the Milwaukee area as it is in the Fox Cities, because they already have 2 interstates. I'm sure it got very little coverage. They make it sound like "all of a sudden out of the blue, these I-41 signs start popping up! Like WTF right?!"
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on July 15, 2014, 11:14:02 PM
Alternate routes have taken a new meaning in WI and are appearing in other states as well.  Iowa uses "Emergency Detour"  M- uses "Emergency" Illinois follows Wisconsin similarly (Alt).  There are others but I forget which ones.  They may also be by district especially in IL since I didn't see any outside D2
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Revive 755 on July 16, 2014, 09:51:16 PM
The alternate interstates in Illinois usually only appear during major construction projects IIRC.  Right now there is also an Alt I-55 signed along I-80 and IL 47 to bypass the Des Plaines River bridge work.  An Alt I-80 though has also appeared for an overpass replacement east of Morris.


The St. Louis District of MoDOT has signed color coded "bypass routes" for I-55 (example sign assembly (https://www.google.com/maps?q=arnold,+mo&hl=en&ll=38.4855,-90.348966&spn=0.003653,0.008256&sll=37.822802,-93.955078&sspn=30.054964,67.631836&hnear=Arnold,+Jefferson+County,+Missouri&t=m&z=18&layer=c&cbll=38.48558,-90.349197&panoid=BX50YG5l3TDDAHPoXCnxPw&cbp=12,148.05,,0,-0.23)).  I believe these are to be expanded to other interstates in the coming years.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on July 16, 2014, 10:06:22 PM
Which is what they were probably intended for where I saw them (The "tollway" being rebuilt by Rockford at the time)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on August 03, 2014, 08:44:49 AM
Congress just went on a month-long recess. Did the Senate finally pass their version of the weight limit waiver?

Incidentally, spotted a few more covered signs. These were on Capitol Drive in Waukesha County, designating the I-41/US 41-45 alternate route.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on August 08, 2014, 01:32:43 PM
Okay, maybe I'm just simplistic here, but wouldn't it make more sense to Decommission WIS 341 (since it is only like 1 mile long) in favor of the WIS 175 which will come down what is present US41 (Appleton Ave) and end at I-94? I'm sure there MUST be some logic behind it but consolidating numbers and whatnot seems more logical to me. I don't see the Stadium Freeway being turned into a Interstate Spur anytime soon, so I mean why not just have it be 175 all the way down to 59 (National Ave)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on August 08, 2014, 07:51:22 PM
It's Wisconsin logic.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on August 10, 2014, 01:00:13 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on August 08, 2014, 07:51:22 PM
It's Wisconsin logic.

Naw, if it were Wisconsin logic, they would extend both WI 175 and WI 341 over the newly vacated portion of US 41 and create another long concurrency.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on August 10, 2014, 11:20:18 PM
Actually, Wisconsin logic would dictate that WI-175 and 341 be re-routed on to I-94 W to US 45 N then up to Appleton Ave, creating one section of pavement labeled as "I-41, US-41, US-45, WI-100, WI-175, and WI-341".

But I digress...   :pan:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on August 11, 2014, 08:18:46 AM
I Literally Laughed out loud at the previous two posts!! SO TRUE!!!
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: davenh on August 28, 2014, 10:38:25 AM
I got a picture of the newest WI-341 sign in the Stadium Interchange. Interesting change, though:

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/yRdPZpC9tyPAXlnizAHvQXzIhxKddfnXn_tQa3__PWw=w1284-h857-no)

Instead of just covering the previously reported WI-175, there's an "END US-41" on this sign. Totally false, of course, but interesting nonetheless.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on August 28, 2014, 12:06:17 PM
Hmm. wonder how long it'll take to cover it up...that just doesn't make sense...
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: davenh on August 28, 2014, 12:12:43 PM
Quote from: merrycilantro on August 28, 2014, 12:06:17 PM
Hmm. wonder how long it'll take to cover it up...that just doesn't make sense...

I thought someone had mentioned (though I can't seem to find the post) that the sign had said "South WI-341/END WI-175". By the time I got to it (which admittedly, this picture is a couple of weeks old), this was what I saw. Assuming that it had listed WI-175, I don't get why they didn't just leave that on there and cover up that portion of the sign, like what they've done to anything mentioning I-41.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on August 28, 2014, 01:45:33 PM
Well not to mention that US-41 doesn't "END" there. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on August 28, 2014, 06:17:19 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on August 10, 2014, 11:20:18 PM
Actually, Wisconsin logic would dictate that WI-175 and 341 be re-routed on to I-94 W to US 45 N then up to Appleton Ave, creating one section of pavement labeled as "I-41, US-41, US-45, WI-100, WI-175, and WI-341".

But I digress...   :pan:

I still don't get the logic of the WI 100 concurrency with 41/45 from Silver Spring to Main St. Wouldn't it have made more sense to run it concurrently with WI 145 on 124th St. from the North Interchange to Brown Deer Rd.?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Big John on August 28, 2014, 06:25:40 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on August 28, 2014, 06:17:19 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on August 10, 2014, 11:20:18 PM
Actually, Wisconsin logic would dictate that WI-175 and 341 be re-routed on to I-94 W to US 45 N then up to Appleton Ave, creating one section of pavement labeled as "I-41, US-41, US-45, WI-100, WI-175, and WI-341".

But I digress...   :pan:

I still don't get the logic of the WI 100 concurrency with 41/45 from Silver Spring to Main St. Wouldn't it have made more sense to run it concurrently with WI 145 on 124th St. from the North Interchange to Brown Deer Rd.?
It used to run from W Good Hope Road to N 107th St before the City of Milwaukee took over 107th St.  Then it was rerouted to its current route.  For some reason it was not rerouted again when 124th St was reconstructed and extended to Brown Deer Rd.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Henry on August 29, 2014, 01:43:05 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 28, 2014, 01:45:33 PM
Well not to mention that US-41 doesn't "END" there. 
Probably the reason they put up that END US 41 sign is to accommodate the continuation of I-41 down I-94 into IL; of course, this is the part I don't agree with, because why not just keep US 41 there?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Big John on August 29, 2014, 01:45:46 PM
^^ I believe there would be too much confusion amongst the public if there were 2 separate roadways with the 41 designation in the same city.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on August 29, 2014, 02:25:50 PM
Quote from: Henry on August 29, 2014, 01:43:05 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 28, 2014, 01:45:33 PM
Well not to mention that US-41 doesn't "END" there. 
Probably the reason they put up that END US 41 sign is to accommodate the continuation of I-41 down I-94 into IL; of course, this is the part I don't agree with, because why not just keep US 41 there?


US-41 should have been moved off the surface streets of Milwaukee years ago.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: I94RoadRunner on August 30, 2014, 04:04:45 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on May 23, 2014, 12:58:33 PM
Quote from: billtm on May 22, 2014, 08:25:43 PM
Quote from: Brandon on May 22, 2014, 04:29:52 PM
Quote from: billtm on May 22, 2014, 04:19:15 PM
Will Interstate 894 be decommissioned? :confused:

On another note, it seems like it would make much more sense grid wise that I-41 follow current I-43 from Milwaukee to Green Bay, while I-43 follow future I-41 from Milwaukee to Green Bay. In that case, I-894 definitely wouldn't be decommissioned.

WTF!?!  Grid-wise, I-41 should be west of I-43, and that is the plan as far as I have seen for Milwaukee to Green Bay.

As for decommissioning I-894, since the original reason for I-894 was a bypass of downtown Milwaukee (I-94), I suspect it will stay.
Sorry! I didn't know what I was thinking! :banghead: I drank way too much coffee. :wow: Also, its finals week...


If it makes you feel better, they will actually be "violating" the grid south of Milwaukee.     :D

I wondered if I-894 will disappear soon as well. I have next Friday off, I think I might drive over to Green Bay and check out the new US 41/I-41/WI 29 interchange and then clinch I-43, I-794, and I-894 before I-894 is gone! .....
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Big John on August 30, 2014, 05:24:19 PM
^^ I-894 will remain even when it will be totally concurrent with I-41
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on September 02, 2014, 10:20:22 AM
...because with Wisconsin's Love of Concurrencies, it's to be expected! Hence the strip from the Hale Interchange to the Mitchell Interchange where you will be going North I-43, South I-41, and East I-894! LOVE IT! There's also a strip of 10 around Waupaca that has 4 different designations a'la Madison Beltline. But you guys already knew that :)

WisDOT - Follow the Yellow Brick Road...

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/Themes/Button_Copy/images/buttons/mutcd_merge.png)Post Merge: September 03, 2014, 12:12:46 AM

...WisDOT - All Roads Lead to Milwaukee...

WisDOT - Don't worry about the DIRECTION, just worry about the NUMBER!!

I could go on...but if i did i'd be afraid i'd get kicked off of here...
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on September 03, 2014, 01:41:14 PM
We may get an update on the status of I-41 next week.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on September 03, 2014, 02:35:13 PM
FightingIrish, Sweet! What do we look for?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on September 03, 2014, 03:17:58 PM
A DOT flack responded to a question on one of the DOT's Facebook pages:

"... there are a few legal/legislative steps that are being worked on. I'll get an update next week and let you know the status. In the meantime go here for some FAQs:http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/neregion/41/faq.htm (http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/neregion/41/faq.htm) "

-- made the url linkable --sso
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on September 23, 2014, 03:35:42 PM
As part of an effort to mark alternate routes around the Zoo Interchange, seems WisDOT is getting ahead of itself - almost.  Going south, they've marked Capitol Drive and I-43 through downtown Milwaukee as ALT I-94.  Going north, they've marked it ALT US-41/US-45...





and an ALT I-(covered up).  Only one guess will be needed to figure it out - It starts with a 4.  Pics later :-D
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: I94RoadRunner on September 23, 2014, 11:20:40 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 29, 2014, 02:25:50 PM
Quote from: Henry on August 29, 2014, 01:43:05 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 28, 2014, 01:45:33 PM
Well not to mention that US-41 doesn't "END" there. 
Probably the reason they put up that END US 41 sign is to accommodate the continuation of I-41 down I-94 into IL; of course, this is the part I don't agree with, because why not just keep US 41 there?


US-41 should have been moved off the surface streets of Milwaukee years ago.

US 41 is on the current routing that it is due to the once proposed freeway systems that US 41 was to follow. The Miller Park Way freeway was to extend southward to I-894 - the stub ramps still exist to this day used as access to a park and ride. to the north, the US 41 freeway was to extend northward to meet the completed 145 freeway along Fon du lac Ave to connect to I-43 where the Park freeway used to be and then the Park freeway itself was to extend further to the east and then turn south to I-794. All of those were cancelled and the part of the Park freeway that was actually built was torn down a few years ago in favor of Mc Kinley Blvd and a reconstructed freeway to freeway junction with I-43 to now a standard diamond interchange with WIS 145/McKinley.

Once they cancelled these freeways, it seems that it would have been a wise decision to reroute US 41 along I-894 as well simply due to the importance of US 41 north of Milwaukee
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on September 26, 2014, 02:40:34 PM
A new covered-up I-41 sign spotted on Watertown Plank Rd WB before US 45, in the middle of all that reconstruction mess.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on September 27, 2014, 08:24:33 PM
Geez.  They just need to pull the trigger on this.  There's a boatload of covered up signs all over Milwaukee.  It's pretty stupid.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on September 27, 2014, 09:19:19 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on September 27, 2014, 08:24:33 PM
Geez.  They just need to pull the trigger on this.  There's a boatload of covered up signs all over Milwaukee.  It's pretty stupid.

The official word is that they're still waiting for the Senate to waive the weight limits for trucks. As soon as that happens, I-41 is a go. But the waiver is the only sticking point. Time to remind Senator Baldwin to nudge those geezers into calling a vote. I would say Senator Johnson, but he doesn't do anything that doesn't serve to inflate his own ego.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on September 27, 2014, 11:02:27 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on September 27, 2014, 09:19:19 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on September 27, 2014, 08:24:33 PM
Geez.  They just need to pull the trigger on this.  There's a boatload of covered up signs all over Milwaukee.  It's pretty stupid.

The official word is that they're still waiting for the Senate to waive the weight limits for trucks. As soon as that happens, I-41 is a go. But the waiver is the only sticking point. Time to remind Senator Baldwin to nudge those geezers into calling a vote. I would say Senator Johnson, but he doesn't do anything that doesn't serve to inflate his own ego.

OTOH, Baldwin is from Madison, where they already have plenty of I-routes, whereas Johnson is from Oshkosh, a city whose corporate limits US(I)-41 passes through.

:nod:

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: amroad17 on September 29, 2014, 03:44:22 AM
Appropriate that we are on page 41 of this topic.

Wisconsin really needs to get the ball rolling on the conversion.  This upgrade has seemed to take as long as the NY 17 upgrades (50 years!).
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on September 29, 2014, 01:38:46 PM
Wisconsin is ready and even has some signage in the field.  The issue is granting the exemption for heavy trucks, which literally takes an act of Congress.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on September 29, 2014, 08:29:20 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 29, 2014, 01:38:46 PM
Wisconsin is ready and even has some signage in the field.  The issue is granting the exemption for heavy trucks, which literally takes an act of Congress.
What Congress? :P
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Brandon on September 29, 2014, 09:30:57 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on September 29, 2014, 08:29:20 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 29, 2014, 01:38:46 PM
Wisconsin is ready and even has some signage in the field.  The issue is granting the exemption for heavy trucks, which literally takes an act of Congress.
What Congress? :P

To quote John Adams from 1776:

QuoteI have come to the conclusion that one useless man is a disgrace, that two are called a law firm, and that three or more become a Congress!
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on September 29, 2014, 10:26:50 PM
and 20,000 lawyers at the bottom of the sea is "a good start". ;)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: JCinSummerfield on September 30, 2014, 02:05:27 PM
Maybe they're re-hashing the idea of calling it I-57 again...
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on September 30, 2014, 02:57:19 PM
^^LOL!!! Probably have to bind and gag some IDOT members for that to happen... :P
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Joe The Dragon on September 30, 2014, 11:32:00 PM
as well as the tollway But the new ramps will fit nice into that plan.

Idot get's to take some of I-57 off there books and only have to deal with that small part from WI to tollway that the tollway takes care of anyways.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on September 30, 2014, 11:40:15 PM
Quote from: JCinSummerfield on September 30, 2014, 02:05:27 PM
Maybe they're re-hashing the idea of calling it I-57 again...

I thought it was I-55 that Wisconsin interests were lobbying for.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: I94RoadRunner on October 01, 2014, 08:06:25 AM
I-55 was the original number that was asked for by Wisconsin.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on October 01, 2014, 08:47:43 AM
and Illinois was the Playground bully and said No.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: NE2 on October 01, 2014, 09:12:22 AM
Illinois did the right thing. In my old Geocities site I extended I-55 to St. Louis via US 12 to Madison, US 151 to Cedar Rapids, and AOTS to St. Louis.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on October 01, 2014, 11:29:41 AM
They did in that I-55 would definitely not have fit into the grid, nor would have 57 or 65...and Thank GOD they didn't demote it to a 643 or 594. My whole point is that for continuity purposes, it would have made sense...but then, when I-43 was built to GB they definitely should have made it 57...but we can't go back and blame our grandparents LOL :) Thank God for GPS, and for Human GPS'es like us. and for the love of GAWD take down the covers! We know it's going to be I-41. We know they're gonna pass the bill...just do it and make us happy already! Just sayin :)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Henry on October 01, 2014, 01:44:32 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on September 30, 2014, 11:40:15 PM
Quote from: JCinSummerfield on September 30, 2014, 02:05:27 PM
Maybe they're re-hashing the idea of calling it I-57 again...

I thought it was I-55 that Wisconsin interests were lobbying for.
Quote from: I94RoadRunner on October 01, 2014, 08:06:25 AM
I-55 was the original number that was asked for by Wisconsin.
In order for an I-55 extension to work, they'd have to reconstruct the interchange at I-90/I-94, which is very unlikely to happen because it would just be too complicated. And I-57 north of Milwaukee would be west of I-43 if they were to extend it onto US 41's path. Just goes to show how totally screwed up the grid is in this part of the country, as in IL alone, you have I-39, I-55 and I-57 serving it.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on October 02, 2014, 01:16:03 AM
Quote from: Henry on October 01, 2014, 01:44:32 PM
In order for an I-55 extension to work, they'd have to reconstruct the interchange at I-90/I-94, which is very unlikely to happen because it would just be too complicated.

I reject this assertion.  System interchanges should always be configured to best handle the local traffic (i.e. almost all of the traffic) demands.  Extending the I-55 designation would not increase traffic making that movement in any significant way.  The existing interchange provides free-flow access so it's fine.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mrsman on October 05, 2014, 07:25:48 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on October 02, 2014, 01:16:03 AM
Quote from: Henry on October 01, 2014, 01:44:32 PM
In order for an I-55 extension to work, they'd have to reconstruct the interchange at I-90/I-94, which is very unlikely to happen because it would just be too complicated.

I reject this assertion.  System interchanges should always be configured to best handle the local traffic (i.e. almost all of the traffic) demands.  Extending the I-55 designation would not increase traffic making that movement in any significant way.  The existing interchange provides free-flow access so it's fine.

Whether it's I-55 or I-57, any multiplex of a north-south number along the north-south section of I-94 between Chicago and Milwaukee would be a big improvement.  You take the Edens north to Milwaukee, so why is this referred to as I-94 west?

I-94 West/I-55 North (or I-94 West/I-57 North) would be a lot easier.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: english si on October 05, 2014, 07:56:13 AM
I-41 North would also work, but sadly IL won't renumber US41 along the Skokie Highway (yet) - which would get it to nearly I-90...
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Lyon Wonder on October 05, 2014, 04:28:14 PM
Quote from: english si on October 05, 2014, 07:56:13 AM
I-41 North would also work, but sadly IL won't renumber US41 along the Skokie Highway (yet) - which would get it to nearly I-90...

IMO, I-41 can be extended onto the I-294 tollway around Chicago to I-80/I-94 and meet the existing US 41 at Hammond, IN.  US 41 north of I-80/I-94 into IL through Chicago and it's northern suburbs to I-94 can be renumbered as either Alternate US 41 or Business US 41.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on October 08, 2014, 08:19:27 AM
More covered I-41 signs have been popping up like dandelions lately. The new NB entrance ramp from Watertown Plank Rd has BGS's with that part covered.

And all the major roads around the Zoo Interchange have ridiculous detour sign salad, for those occasional overnight closures. Here's one, in which the one covered sign is pretty obvious.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F10%2F08%2Fpu4abusu.jpg&hash=07a9f4738aeeaae299a8ac7e9a17c6166be1aca7)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on October 17, 2014, 11:54:08 AM
first collector lanes opening in Brown County

http://fox11online.com/2014/10/16/new-lanes-open-on-us-41-in-brown-county/

Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on October 17, 2014, 11:58:20 AM
Quote from: FightingIrish on October 08, 2014, 08:19:27 AM
More covered I-41 signs have been popping up like dandelions lately. The new NB entrance ramp from Watertown Plank Rd has BGS's with that part covered.

And all the major roads around the Zoo Interchange have ridiculous detour sign salad, for those occasional overnight closures. Here's one, in which the one covered sign is pretty obvious.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F10%2F08%2Fpu4abusu.jpg&hash=07a9f4738aeeaae299a8ac7e9a17c6166be1aca7)
At least US 41 doesn't exist on that.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on October 17, 2014, 01:03:24 PM
Oh, and the interchange of US 41 and Wis 47 / Richmond Street in Appleton is reopening today. That was the last bridge that needed to be raised crossing over 41 to get to interstate standards.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: jprocknow on October 21, 2014, 01:34:58 PM
I'm happy to find this topic, although I'm probably too late.  My points seem to have been already discussed but I wanted to include my discussion with WisDOT because their logic and reasoning is asinine.
I'm against I-41 south of the Zoo; it's wasteful, it's confusing, it's unnecessary, and there's no logic behind it.  Personally, when I went to the public meeting, I thought a 3di made more sense since it was staying within the state.  I'm of the opinion that a 3di is no less important than a 2di and is just shorter.  There's not even a national consensus as to whether the 2di is the through route or is the city serving route and I hope everybody knows the examples.  But it would be the longest 3di in the country, even from the Zoo, and there's the awkward ending and beginning in Green Bay situation (aka north of Trenton, though soon to be rectified).  I don't see how a 2di makes it that much less awkward, but I digress.  Anyway, here's my conversation with WisDOT/FHWA, WI division and their replies:  (sorry for the length but I thought it was of interest.  How's that for a first post?  Hope I am not making a negative first impression...)
-IH 41 is planned to be east of IH 43, which is a violation of the Interstate numbering policy.
-- (DOT) I-41 follows the AASHTO guidelines of increasing route numbers west to east, with its location between I-39 and I-43.  (I guess they ignore the part south of I-43)
-extending the route into Illinois a fraction of a mile--all the while as another, much longer and already established interstate route exists for many miles in the same exact corridor--doesn't make sense in the interstate concept.  Interstates usually are linked directly with commerce and I would argue that routing IH 41 on IH 94 will not increase commerce, as it's already well-established.   Now new signs will have to be constructed on IH 94 for its entire concurrency for no real good reason.
--With the extension into Illinois, the I-41 route becomes a true interstate route.  (Cheaters, I guess we'll see I-43 get extended a mile into Illinois very soon then.  They should take a clue as to why IL doesn't want to sign I-41 any further than 0.9 miles)  The addition of I-41 to the I-94 corridor will allow the signing for cardinal direction to be north/south rather than the current east/west signing. This will reduce driver confusion.  (Finally, an end to the confusion that has plagued us for 50+ years!)  The purpose of this Interstate conversion project is to enhance economic development by converting US 41 to an Interstate highway. The extension along I-94 links the Fox Valley metropolitan areas and markets to the greater Chicago metropolitan area. Chicago is the economic epicenter of the entire Midwest and a key hub near the end of the I-41 corridor.  (I don't see how adding another shield connects the Fox Valley to Chicago any better, unless every control city SB is Chicago and NB is a Fox Valley city/Green Bay, I think most of us has GPS or maps and don't need our hands held all the way to our destination)
-Why a 2di instead of a 3di
--A loop route designation would not allow for any future Interstate loop designations in urban areas.  (Buffalo, Oakland, I-370, Tulsa are all in my head?)
-And 894, does it stay?
--I-894 will remain around Milwaukee.  The three digit route number lets the public know that the route is a bypass and will get them back to I-94.  It also allows us to keep the existing mile markers and exit numbers in place.  Signing is being designed to minimize driver confusion.
-What about the wrong way concurrency?  And all the other illogical arguments you're making and my points you're ignoring?  And the extra cost for new signs, including ones at the Mitchell you JUST put up?
--In general, FHWA feels it is reasonable to state that the items you have mentioned were taken into consideration during the evaluation process. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on October 21, 2014, 02:28:26 PM
Quote from: jprocknow on October 21, 2014, 01:34:58 PM
And all the other illogical arguments you're making and my points you're ignoring? 


I'm sure that went over well.   :meh:

Look, I would have rather seen an extension of I-55 or I-57.  But I-41 is better than a 3di - there are a number of intrastate interstates.  The grid violation doesn't bother me.  (There are a number of such violations, and many, many USH violations.  It doesn't harm navigation.)  And it remains as "Highway 41."
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: jprocknow on October 21, 2014, 02:40:21 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 21, 2014, 02:28:26 PM

I'm sure that went over well.   :meh:

Look, I would have rather seen an extension of I-55 or I-57.  But I-41 is better than a 3di - there are a number of intrastate interstates.  The grid violation doesn't bother me.  (There are a number of such violations, and many, many USH violations.  It doesn't harm navigation.)  And it remains as "Highway 41."

I hope it is clear those weren't direct quotes from me.  I was respectful but they seemed to have prepared answers and weren't interested in engaging me after I asked for clarification.
Those weren't listen in any particular order of importance, but I-41 south of the Zoo would be my main problem, because it encompasses the wasted manpower on signage and the wrong way concurrency.  Their reasons were not solid and sometimes just plain wrong.  That and being blown off is why I had some snarky tone in my post not present in the original communication.
As I write this, I'm trying to think of a place where two interstates terminate at each other, specifically 2di's as I already mentioned Trenton.  I'm sure there are no "intrastate" interstates that do that and probably for good reason.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: vtk on October 21, 2014, 02:48:55 PM
55 and 12?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: adventurernumber1 on October 21, 2014, 03:35:07 PM
Dont I-94 and I-69 (Ik they terminate at least very close to each other)?

EDIT: I think we might be off-topic now, lol.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: jprocknow on October 21, 2014, 03:49:32 PM
They terminate at the Canadian border together, but not into each other.
Back on topic, WI mutiplexing logic is dumb!
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on October 21, 2014, 07:45:40 PM
As for 'I-41 south of the Zoo', the I-94/US 41 <-> I-894 (includes I-43 in a wrong-way concurrency) <-> US 45 <-> US 41 corridor is an important routing for through traffic transiting Milwaukee County between Chicagoland the Fond du Lac/Oshkosh/Appleton area and it is not unusual for people to get lost trying to follow that logical corridor with all of its route numbering changes - ESPECIALLY since 'US 41' is on the major highway on either side of Milwaukee County.  Right now, US 41 still uses Milwaukee city streets in between.

Having the same number ('I-41') on that entire corridor unifies that corridor (something that I've been on WisDOT's back about since at least the late 1980s), with an added bonus that it now gives much of that north-south corridor a proper 'north-south' interstate highway number.  I-94 is signed as 'east-west' between Chicago and Milwaukee, yet another big navigational confusion.

Even though, on the surface, extending 'I-41' southward to at least the IL/WI state line makes little sense to someone from outside of the western Lake Michigan region, there is some good madness to that method.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on October 21, 2014, 08:02:55 PM
Not to mention that the corridor is a major trucking route between Illinois, Milwaukee and the Fox River Valley. The numbering may seem awkward to out-of-staters, but it does make some sense to Wisconsinites. Certainly more than to anal-retentive grid enthusiasts.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: jprocknow on October 21, 2014, 08:21:51 PM
I grew up in Milwaukee and still have lots of family there, so I'm always visiting.  I would still think it's confusing if I still lived there.  I'll grant you that I-94 is odd between Milwaukee and Chicago but it's been like that for 50+ years, before most vehicles came standard with GPS.  Besides, that's what control cities are for because not every E-W or N-S highways is traveling due E/W/N/S, marginally or not.
Speaking of control cities, the Zoo has always been labeled for either the Fox Valley or Chicago as long as I've known it, so how is a new shield going to change that?  Unless Chicago will be a control city in Green Bay now and vice versa.  I bet most travelers who are unfamiliar with their travel route will research the route ahead of time because not every route is straightforward, especially nowadays.  I just don't understand the need to ensure one number from start to finish.  Interchanging between routes is not novel.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on October 22, 2014, 08:23:32 AM
What I am curious to know is Where is this Trenton that there is an awkward beginning and end that is soon to be rectified, and how are they rectifying it? I sort of feel like I'm adding fuel to the fire but I've searched this over and over on Google Maps and cannot figure out what or where this is.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on October 22, 2014, 08:53:01 AM
Quote from: jprocknow on October 21, 2014, 08:21:51 PM
I grew up in Milwaukee and still have lots of family there, so I'm always visiting.  I would still think it's confusing if I still lived there.  I'll grant you that I-94 is odd between Milwaukee and Chicago but it's been like that for 50+ years, before most vehicles came standard with GPS.  Besides, that's what control cities are for because not every E-W or N-S highways is traveling due E/W/N/S, marginally or not.


So which is it?  Is it going to be confusing?  Or is it going to be not that big of a deal due to GPS and control cities?  To be honest I think people are looking for reasons to be against I-41, other than simply being annoyed by an unnecessary duplex.  And really I can't get all that bent out of shape about that.


Quote from: jprocknow on October 21, 2014, 08:21:51 PM
Speaking of control cities, the Zoo has always been labeled for either the Fox Valley or Chicago as long as I've known it, so how is a new shield going to change that? 

My guess is that they won't be changed at all.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Zeffy on October 22, 2014, 09:09:08 AM
Quote from: merrycilantro on October 22, 2014, 08:23:32 AM
What I am curious to know is Where is this Trenton that there is an awkward beginning and end that is soon to be rectified, and how are they rectifying it? I sort of feel like I'm adding fuel to the fire but I've searched this over and over on Google Maps and cannot figure out what or where this is.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he is referring to the Interstate 95 "gap" located north of Trenton, NJ. I-95 abruptly ends in two places near Trenton - one is right after exit 8 on the segment north of Trenton, and the other is on the New Jersey Turnpike right after exit 6 (going south). The gap was caused by a cancelled freeway that probably would've made congestion in central NJ a whole lot better. It will finally be eliminated once the Penna Turnpike and I-95 interchange near Bristol is complete in the next 4-6 years.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: DaBigE on October 22, 2014, 09:13:09 AM
Quote from: jprocknow on October 21, 2014, 08:21:51 PM
Speaking of control cities, the Zoo has always been labeled for either the Fox Valley or Chicago as long as I've known it, so how is a new shield going to change that?  Unless Chicago will be a control city in Green Bay now and vice versa.

Not entirely true. The Zoo is currently labeled (http://goo.gl/maps/wBhqy) for US 45 and Fond du Lac (technically not part of the Fox Valley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_Cities)). The new shield, in this case, will change quite a bit. The Marquette, OTOH, is labeled for Green Bay (via I-43).
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: jprocknow on October 22, 2014, 09:28:39 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 22, 2014, 08:53:01 AM

Quote from: jprocknow on October 21, 2014, 08:21:51 PM
Speaking of control cities, the Zoo has always been labeled for either the Fox Valley or Chicago as long as I've known it, so how is a new shield going to change that? 

My guess is that they won't be changed at all.

That would be curious, as their main reason for doing this is to seemingly "link" the Fox Valley with Chicago, so if the signs don't change, it's not "linked" any more than it already is now.
I'm not against the triplex and duplex if they make sense but they don't.  I'm more against the extra cost, as I've said.  And yes, I think it will be confusing, especially on the south leg of the bypass.

Quote from: DaBigE on October 22, 2014, 09:13:09 AM
Quote from: jprocknow on October 21, 2014, 08:21:51 PM
Speaking of control cities, the Zoo has always been labeled for either the Fox Valley or Chicago as long as I've known it, so how is a new shield going to change that?  Unless Chicago will be a control city in Green Bay now and vice versa.

Not entirely true. The Zoo is currently labeled (http://goo.gl/maps/wBhqy) for US 45 and Fond du Lac (technically not part of the Fox Valley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_Cities)). The new shield, in this case, will change quite a bit. The Marquette, OTOH, is labeled for Green Bay (via I-43).

True, I guess I've always considered FdL a Fox city.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on October 22, 2014, 09:37:45 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 22, 2014, 08:53:01 AM
Quote from: jprocknow on October 21, 2014, 08:21:51 PM
Speaking of control cities, the Zoo has always been labeled for either the Fox Valley or Chicago as long as I've known it, so how is a new shield going to change that? 

My guess is that they won't be changed at all.

For as long as I can remember, for NB US 45 (I-41), it has been 'Fond du Lac'.  I've always thought that 'Oshkosh' or 'Appleton' would be better.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on October 22, 2014, 12:25:32 PM
Quote from: jprocknow on October 22, 2014, 09:28:39 AM
That would be curious, as their main reason for doing this is to seemingly "link" the Fox Valley with Chicago, so if the signs don't change, it's not "linked" any more than it already is now.
I'm not against the triplex and duplex if they make sense but they don't.  I'm more against the extra cost, as I've said.  And yes, I think it will be confusing, especially on the south leg of the bypass.


You are talking about what...a three mile section of the bypass with four exits that are almost entirely used by locals.  It really is only at these exits that a problem with the "north" and "south" concurrency could be a problem.  But that is why you keep I-894 to add the east and west.

Put it this way, there are other wrong way concurencies in Wisconsin.  (On the US-10 bypass of Waupaca and on the I-90/WI-11 concurrency outside of Janesville.)  I have not heard of any confusion issues with them.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on October 22, 2014, 12:33:01 PM
I guess I can see where Fond du Lac makes sense, it is the first bigger metro area that 41 goes thru (or around, as it were). They could do two and do Fond du Lac, Fox Valley (or Fox Cities)...we (as in Fond du Lac) must get roped in with the Fox Cities because we, like they, hug Lake Winnebago (Winneseptic as I like to refer to it) so it makes sense to just group us all in.

If anybody here is paying attention to the politics going on with the Commonwealth Company here in Fond du Lac...people around here are calling it New Chicago anyway...
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: jprocknow on October 22, 2014, 12:55:06 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 22, 2014, 12:25:32 PM
Quote from: jprocknow on October 22, 2014, 09:28:39 AM
That would be curious, as their main reason for doing this is to seemingly "link" the Fox Valley with Chicago, so if the signs don't change, it's not "linked" any more than it already is now.
I'm not against the triplex and duplex if they make sense but they don't.  I'm more against the extra cost, as I've said.  And yes, I think it will be confusing, especially on the south leg of the bypass.


You are talking about what...a three mile section of the bypass with four exits that are almost entirely used by locals.  It really is only at these exits that a problem with the "north" and "south" concurrency could be a problem.  But that is why you keep I-894 to add the east and west.

Put it this way, there are other wrong way concurencies in Wisconsin.  (On the US-10 bypass of Waupaca and on the I-90/WI-11 concurrency outside of Janesville.)  I have not heard of any confusion issues with them.

If nothing changes but adding a few signs (ramps don't change configurations), the locals will have no problem, sure.  But I-894 is hardly "almost entirely used by locals."  The exits, yes, more so, but now you've got to add new signs at the Hale and Mitchell (which are brand new, by the way).  Yes, maybe this won't be too confusing since again the ramps aren't changing, only the signs.  But wouldn't you agree that drivers don't need more signs to read in this day and age, they need less?
I'm not sure why you keep hammering on a point I've already said is not the main issue.  I'm not sure if you're missing my main issue and purposely avoiding it or not.  The cost of changing or revising signage on the whole corridor is $8-12 million.  I imagine most of that is from the Zoo north, both from simply a mileage standpoint and the fact that it's not currently an interstate.  But I know the cost of the Zoo and south is significant.  If you have a thought on this, I'd love to hear it, otherwise we'll have to agree to disagree and further discussion is likely pointless.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Henry on October 22, 2014, 01:03:40 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on October 21, 2014, 07:45:40 PM
As for 'I-41 south of the Zoo', the I-94/US 41 <-> I-894 (includes I-43 in a wrong-way concurrency) <-> US 45 <-> US 41 corridor is an important routing for through traffic transiting Milwaukee County between Chicagoland the Fond du Lac/Oshkosh/Appleton area and it is not unusual for people to get lost trying to follow that logical corridor with all of its route numbering changes - ESPECIALLY since 'US 41' is on the major highway on either side of Milwaukee County.  Right now, US 41 still uses Milwaukee city streets in between.

Having the same number ('I-41') on that entire corridor unifies that corridor (something that I've been on WisDOT's back about since at least the late 1980s), with an added bonus that it now gives much of that north-south corridor a proper 'north-south' interstate highway number.  I-94 is signed as 'east-west' between Chicago and Milwaukee, yet another big navigational confusion.

Even though, on the surface, extending 'I-41' southward to at least the IL/WI state line makes little sense to someone from outside of the western Lake Michigan region, there is some good madness to that method.

Mike
However, there's no easy fix to the situation. I-41 could be extended to the Chicago metro area, where it could take over I-294, but then there'd be two Route 41's, which violates the numbering convention. And then again, you have I-24 and US 24 in IL. I-55 or I-57 would be a better fit for the Chicago-Milwaukee route, where it could then take over I-43, but what would become of the leftover piece that angles southwestward towards Beloit?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on October 22, 2014, 01:18:32 PM
Quote from: jprocknow on October 22, 2014, 12:55:06 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 22, 2014, 12:25:32 PM
Quote from: jprocknow on October 22, 2014, 09:28:39 AM
That would be curious, as their main reason for doing this is to seemingly "link" the Fox Valley with Chicago, so if the signs don't change, it's not "linked" any more than it already is now.
I'm not against the triplex and duplex if they make sense but they don't.  I'm more against the extra cost, as I've said.  And yes, I think it will be confusing, especially on the south leg of the bypass.


You are talking about what...a three mile section of the bypass with four exits that are almost entirely used by locals.  It really is only at these exits that a problem with the "north" and "south" concurrency could be a problem.  But that is why you keep I-894 to add the east and west.

Put it this way, there are other wrong way concurencies in Wisconsin.  (On the US-10 bypass of Waupaca and on the I-90/WI-11 concurrency outside of Janesville.)  I have not heard of any confusion issues with them.

If nothing changes but adding a few signs (ramps don't change configurations), the locals will have no problem, sure.  But I-894 is hardly "almost entirely used by locals."  The exits, yes, more so, but now you've got to add new signs at the Hale and Mitchell (which are brand new, by the way).  Yes, maybe this won't be too confusing since again the ramps aren't changing, only the signs.  But wouldn't you agree that drivers don't need more signs to read in this day and age, they need less?
I'm not sure why you keep hammering on a point I've already said is not the main issue.  I'm not sure if you're missing my main issue and purposely avoiding it or not.  The cost of changing or revising signage on the whole corridor is $8-12 million.  I imagine most of that is from the Zoo north, both from simply a mileage standpoint and the fact that it's not currently an interstate.  But I know the cost of the Zoo and south is significant.  If you have a thought on this, I'd love to hear it, otherwise we'll have to agree to disagree and further discussion is likely pointless.


I think the state should do what they think is best and sign accordingly.  That cost is minimal in the grand scheme of things.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on October 22, 2014, 01:59:30 PM
...and for all we know, I-41 May not end in Green Bay forever...the option is there to extend it should WisDOT and MDOT desire to. They could even "switcheroo" and duplex 41 and 43 to the Abrams Split and then flip I-41 onto US 141 and I-43 onto US 41...not saying they will but the option is there. You never can tell with WisDOT (winnie the pooh reference)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: jprocknow on October 22, 2014, 02:07:31 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 22, 2014, 01:18:32 PM



I think the state should do what they think is best and sign accordingly.  That cost is minimal in the grand scheme of things.

I, natch, disagree.  Imagine that!  I don't think any cost is worth signing an existing IH route, especially if it unceremoniously terminates in the middle of nowhere.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on October 22, 2014, 02:12:51 PM
Quote from: jprocknow on October 22, 2014, 02:07:31 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 22, 2014, 01:18:32 PM
I think the state should do what they think is best and sign accordingly.  That cost is minimal in the grand scheme of things.

I, natch, disagree.  Imagine that!  I don't think any cost is worth signing an existing IH route, especially if it unceremoniously terminates in the middle of nowhere.


It doesn't terminate "in the middle of nowhere."  It terminates where US-41 separates from I-94 which gives it number continuity.  Obviously WIDOT finds that important.  You don't.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: jprocknow on October 22, 2014, 02:44:08 PM
Number continuity is a brand new thing, only one place has it.  It was not something that was supposed to happen, due to the numbering rules/scheme.  I'd call an (partial) interchange in a very non-built up area the middle of nowhere, especially when AASHTO themselves said duplex should be held to a minimum and focus on major control points.  Green Bay and Milwaukee are, Milwaukee and Wadsworth, IL are not.  I'm quite sure you're not a WisDOT employee but you're quite the apologist for them for some reason.  I guess I don't have a finger on their pulse.
I don't know everything about IHs but I can't think of another one that ends like where IH41 is slated to at its SB terminus.  It's highly irregular, and for good reason.
https://connect.ncdot.gov/resources/safety/Teppl/TEPPL%20All%20Documents%20Library/I-5m.pdf
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on October 22, 2014, 02:55:12 PM
The way I see it, Illinois wouldn't allow the most sensible I-55 or I-57 to be brought up thru Chicago, so we brought the next best thing to them! Here you go, Illinois, take I-41 and shove it __ __ ___, basically...Tit-for-Tat, Karma, call it what you want but this passion against I-41 could really be driven at IDOT for their rejection of bringing 55 or 57 north.  And don't even get me started on the number grid. Other Places violate that grid, so why not us Cheeseheads?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: english si on October 22, 2014, 03:45:01 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 22, 2014, 02:12:51 PMIt doesn't terminate "in the middle of nowhere."  It terminates where US-41 separates from I-94 which gives it number continuity.  Obviously WIDOT finds that important.  You don't.
IDOT, surely? Though obviously WSDOT wanted all their US41(I) to be signed with I-41 to the border (and the n-s interstate from Green Bay to Illinois to eventually make it to I-90 at least, but they don't have a say).

I presume issues with US routes on tollways, and dealing with the ISTHA will mean that getting I-41 further south will be a bit more work than a submission to AASHTO (who felt it entirely above board), and some signs.
Quote from: jprocknow on October 22, 2014, 02:44:08 PMNumber continuity is a brand new thing, only one place has it.
I believe the French didn't have numbers disappearing and reappearing in their imperial system, the first modern road numbering scheme (OK, there wasn't many duplexes). Number continuity is fairly foundational to the idea of numbering roads, especially in the USA where concurrent routes tend to be signed (rather than, say, the UK where they aren't so much).

I should point out that there are examples in both France and the Netherlands of A roads running concurrent so that one can reach the junction with the same-numbered N road (and France, unlike the Netherlands, has separate A and N numbering systems) and both date from some time ago.

It's not like US41 isn't signed rather a lot on I-94 between IL and Milwaukee - what's the difference between that 30+ mile stretch of double signing and one with blue signs saying '41'? And it's really not a long concurrency - especially compared others in the Midwest.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on October 22, 2014, 03:48:57 PM
Like 39/90/94...to name one from WI. And if research serves me correctly, Wisconsin is who started the whole numbering roads in the nation anyway, we can break our own rules...i severely paraphrase here.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: jprocknow on October 22, 2014, 03:54:21 PM
Quote from: english si on October 22, 2014, 03:45:01 PM
Quote from: jprocknow on October 22, 2014, 02:44:08 PMNumber continuity is a brand new thing, only one place has it.
I believe the French didn't have numbers disappearing and reappearing in their imperial system, the first modern road numbering scheme (OK, there wasn't many duplexes). Number continuity is fairly foundational to the idea of numbering roads, especially in the USA where concurrent routes tend to be signed (rather than, say, the UK where they aren't so much).

I should point out that there are examples in both France and the Netherlands of A roads running concurrent so that one can reach the junction with the same-numbered N road (and France, unlike the Netherlands, has separate A and N numbering systems) and both date from some time ago.

It's not like US41 isn't signed rather a lot on I-94 between IL and Milwaukee - what's the difference between that 30+ mile stretch of double signing and one with blue signs saying '41'? And it's really not a long concurrency - especially compared others in the Midwest.

Unless I misunderstood SEWIGuy, he's referring to number continuity in reference to US 41, meaning I-41 is concurrent with US 41 within Wisconsin and 0.9 miles in Illinois.  There is only one other example where a US highway is concurrent with an interstate of the same number.
Yes, US 41 is already signed on I-94.  That's my point.  Why sign it again?  US 41 is already N-S so you have your cardinal direction covered even if I-94 is E-W.  What's the difference?  Only spending hundreds of thousands of dollars and maybe more to put all those new shields down.  A cost the state/feds shouldn't have to spend.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on October 22, 2014, 04:11:46 PM
Quote from: jprocknow on October 22, 2014, 02:44:08 PM
Number continuity is a brand new thing, only one place has it.  It was not something that was supposed to happen, due to the numbering rules/scheme.  I'd call an (partial) interchange in a very non-built up area the middle of nowhere, especially when AASHTO themselves said duplex should be held to a minimum and focus on major control points.  Green Bay and Milwaukee are, Milwaukee and Wadsworth, IL are not.  I'm quite sure you're not a WisDOT employee but you're quite the apologist for them for some reason.  I guess I don't have a finger on their pulse.
I don't know everything about IHs but I can't think of another one that ends like where IH41 is slated to at its SB terminus.  It's highly irregular, and for good reason.
https://connect.ncdot.gov/resources/safety/Teppl/TEPPL%20All%20Documents%20Library/I-5m.pdf


I'm not an apologist for WIDOT at all.  I have been critical of them on other issues before.  I just think this is a complete non-issue.  I understand their thinking to bring I-41 across the border to where US-41 diverges from I-94.  That entire corridor will be maintained as "Highway 41."  Furthermore the whole "numbering rules/scheme" issue to me is eye roll worthy.

If you are going to be upset at WIDOT, be upset about important things - such as why they aren't pushing harder to expand capacity on the interstate highways. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: jprocknow on October 22, 2014, 04:18:36 PM
Because they don't have money, which is because they're spending (likely) a million some dollars (or more) to unnecessarily sign this corridor which is already signed for a 41 N-S, which is once again my point.  I regret ever saying anything about the numbering grid!  They painted themselves into a corner with capacity by allowing properties to be built right up next to the interstates, ignored mass transit options, and failing to build proper alternate routes.    :banghead:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: on_wisconsin on October 22, 2014, 04:27:27 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 22, 2014, 04:11:46 PM
Quote from: jprocknow on October 22, 2014, 02:44:08 PM
Number continuity is a brand new thing, only one place has it.  It was not something that was supposed to happen, due to the numbering rules/scheme.  I'd call an (partial) interchange in a very non-built up area the middle of nowhere, especially when AASHTO themselves said duplex should be held to a minimum and focus on major control points.  Green Bay and Milwaukee are, Milwaukee and Wadsworth, IL are not.  I'm quite sure you're not a WisDOT employee but you're quite the apologist for them for some reason.  I guess I don't have a finger on their pulse.
I don't know everything about IHs but I can't think of another one that ends like where IH41 is slated to at its SB terminus.  It's highly irregular, and for good reason.
https://connect.ncdot.gov/resources/safety/Teppl/TEPPL%20All%20Documents%20Library/I-5m.pdf
I just think this is a complete non-issue.  I understand their thinking to bring I-41 across the border to where US-41 diverges from I-94.  That entire corridor will be maintained as "Highway 41."  Furthermore the whole "numbering rules/scheme" issue to me is eye roll worthy.

If you are going to be upset at WIDOT, be upset about important things - such as why they aren't pushing harder to expand capacity on the interstate highways. 
Was just about to post something similar my self.

The whole I-41 numbering debate so overdone at this point. Congress's rubber stamp is the only thing keeping the shields from being uncovered.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: english si on October 22, 2014, 04:58:50 PM
I can't imagine covering US41 shields with I-41 shield stickers would cost millions - even on the whole route, not just the I-94 concurrency. If they resigned the whole road, then that is not I-41's fault.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: jprocknow on October 22, 2014, 05:02:07 PM
Quote from: english si on October 22, 2014, 04:58:50 PM
I can't imagine covering US41 shields with I-41 shield stickers would cost millions - even on the whole route, not just the I-94 concurrency. If they resigned the whole road, then that is not I-41's fault.

Believe it: http://dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/neregion/41/faq.htm#cost  I agree, it seems like a lot but it's true.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Revive 755 on October 22, 2014, 08:39:32 PM
Quote from: jprocknow on October 22, 2014, 02:44:08 PM
Number continuity is a brand new thing, only one place has it.

Few nitpicks:

1) Number continuity is not quite a new thing, as continuity was one of the reasons for US 66 between Chicago and LA.  Otherwise, I would think that separate numbers would have been used for many parts of the US 66 corridor.

2) There are other corridors in which a new designation has been recently added for number continuity:
   A) IA 27/MO 27 for the Avenue of the Saints Corridor
   B) IA 163 for the Burlington - Des Moines Corridor
   C) IL 110/MO 110 for the Chicago - Kansas City corridor

3) I'm pretty sure the original grander proposal for the I-73/I-74 routes were relying on number continuity.


Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Jim920 on October 22, 2014, 10:27:23 PM
WisDOT could have done a boneheaded move like Texas (I-69) and make US-41 I43W, and the current I-43 becomes I-43E!
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: jprocknow on October 22, 2014, 10:46:11 PM
Yea, Texas is going a little crazy down there.  Don't forget I-2, all <50 miles of it down in that unconnected weed of signed interstates.  But I-43W and I-43E isn't a half bad idea now that you mention it. :hmmm:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on October 22, 2014, 10:49:30 PM
Quote from: jprocknow on October 22, 2014, 10:46:11 PM
Yea, Texas is going a little crazy down there.  Don't forget I-2, all <50 miles of it down in that unconnected weed of signed interstates.  But I-43W and I-43E isn't a half bad idea now that you mention it. :hmmm:


Cost of signage would even be greater though.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: jprocknow on October 22, 2014, 11:36:59 PM
Now you're just trolling.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: skluth on October 23, 2014, 12:00:36 AM
Quote from: jprocknow on October 22, 2014, 04:18:36 PM
Because they don't have money, which is because they're spending (likely) a million some dollars (or more) to unnecessarily sign this corridor which is already signed for a 41 N-S, which is once again my point.  I regret ever saying anything about the numbering grid!  They painted themselves into a corner with capacity by allowing properties to be built right up next to the interstates, ignored mass transit options, and failing to build proper alternate routes.    :banghead:

The interstate conversion costs money, but the entire point of upgrading 41 to interstate standards was to improve business in the Fox Valley. When community leaders want to sell their community to business, it sounds much better to say your city has an interstate to/through it than your city has a freeway that connects to the interstate system. Interstates have much higher standards than freeways. It's why we have interstates terminating in Lubbock, Wichita Falls, and Quincy. The $12 million in sign modifications will more than pay for itself in the business it attracts. I grew up in Green Bay. I-43 means almost as much economically as the Packers.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on October 23, 2014, 09:21:41 AM
Quote from: jprocknow on October 22, 2014, 11:36:59 PM
Now you're just trolling.


No I'm not.  You are complaining about the cost of signage, but then you said that the I-43E / I-43W idea "isn't half bad."  But of course to do that you would have to change every I-43 sign to I-43E from the Hale interchange to Green Bay. 

I'm just pointing out inconsistencies in your arguments.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on October 23, 2014, 10:10:08 AM
Quote from: skluth on October 23, 2014, 12:00:36 AM
Quote from: jprocknow on October 22, 2014, 04:18:36 PM
Because they don't have money, which is because they're spending (likely) a million some dollars (or more) to unnecessarily sign this corridor which is already signed for a 41 N-S, which is once again my point.  I regret ever saying anything about the numbering grid!  They painted themselves into a corner with capacity by allowing properties to be built right up next to the interstates, ignored mass transit options, and failing to build proper alternate routes.    :banghead:

The interstate conversion costs money, but the entire point of upgrading 41 to interstate standards was to improve business in the Fox Valley. When community leaders want to sell their community to business, it sounds much better to say your city has an interstate to/through it than your city has a freeway that connects to the interstate system. Interstates have much higher standards than freeways. It's why we have interstates terminating in Lubbock, Wichita Falls, and Quincy. The $12 million in sign modifications will more than pay for itself in the business it attracts. I grew up in Green Bay. I-43 means almost as much economically as the Packers.

You are absolutely correct. The sign funds are an investment, and one that will attract returns and then some. The Lake Winnebago area has been growing fast for years, and the corridor through the northwest Milwaukee suburbs has been exploding as well. US 41 has long been a major commercial route, with a significant presence of heavy trucks. And upgrades around the Zoo Interchange are moving very quickly. This is one of the most important routes in the state, and is certainly worthy of interstate status.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: jprocknow on October 23, 2014, 11:21:26 AM
Quote from: skluth on October 23, 2014, 12:00:36 AM
The interstate conversion costs money, but the entire point of upgrading 41 to interstate standards was to improve business in the Fox Valley. When community leaders want to sell their community to business, it sounds much better to say your city has an interstate to/through it than your city has a freeway that connects to the interstate system. Interstates have much higher standards than freeways. It's why we have interstates terminating in Lubbock, Wichita Falls, and Quincy. The $12 million in sign modifications will more than pay for itself in the business it attracts. I grew up in Green Bay. I-43 means almost as much economically as the Packers.
Quote from: FightingIrish on October 23, 2014, 10:10:08 AM
You are absolutely correct. The sign funds are an investment, and one that will attract returns and then some. The Lake Winnebago area has been growing fast for years, and the corridor through the northwest Milwaukee suburbs has been exploding as well. US 41 has long been a major commercial route, with a significant presence of heavy trucks. And upgrades around the Zoo Interchange are moving very quickly. This is one of the most important routes in the state, and is certainly worthy of interstate status.

I can't disagree with either of you at all.  I've seen the huge growth from Oshkosh and northward and am absolutely for an interstate designation through there.  Then travelers know what they're going to get; a high-speed, limited-access highway with lots of facilities and close proximity to large towns, as opposed to US highways, which take all different forms.  That investment is definitely worth it, whatever fraction of the $8-12 million it costs.
You might not have read my earlier argument, but the part I'm against is designating I-41 south of the Zoo.  Whatever that specific cost is to sign from the Zoo to the I-94/US 41 split is not, in my mind, worth it.  It won't bring any extra business to that region and is superfluous.  But obviously, WisDOT paid somebody some money and was told that it's worth it.  I'd love to see that report.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on October 23, 2014, 12:51:59 PM
My opinion is, going along with the idea that bringing an Interstate through the Fox Valley and Fox Cities will attract business and what not, Taking I-41 down as far as it can go (i.e. 0.9 miles into Illinois) goes hand in hand with what you are saying. "I can take I-41 from Chicago to Green Bay" is easier for someone unfamiliar with the area, than "OK so you're gonna go 94 to Milwaukee, and when you get to the 894 bypass, go west and  follow that to I-41." I am all for the "One Number" philosophy, which is why I was big on bringing 55 or 57 up. Because why create another number? But we all know how that went. Now, 41 coming into Illinois, I believe, would bring more traffic up this way, because it makes 41 not "just another weird Wisconsin intrastate". At the same time encouraging, or at the very least, leaving the door open, for Illinois to follow suit and bring it even further into Chicago, perhaps to one of the major East-West Cross Country Interstates (thinking I-80, or I-90). I mean one could even argue to decommission US 41 from Indiana say, all the way to Marquette Michigan (where I believe it ends). Then there's no problem with Duplex of I-41/US41.

Long story short (too late), I'm calling it the Lizard Effect, how they can dip their tails into warm or cool water to regulate their temperature, We're dipping our tail as far into Illinois as possible to bring  bigger stuff northward and show the nation that we exist. This all makes sense in my head so if I've lost anyone I do apologize. Having a hard time using my words today apparently.

I *JUST* looked at Google Maps and figured out this could be a possiblity. Truncate US 41 at Hammond, IN, where it meets I-80.  PROBLEM SOLVED. BOOM.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Henry on October 23, 2014, 12:59:41 PM
Quote from: merrycilantro on October 23, 2014, 12:51:59 PM
My opinion is, going along with the idea that bringing an Interstate through the Fox Valley and Fox Cities will attract business and what not, Taking I-41 down as far as it can go (i.e. 0.9 miles into Illinois) goes hand in hand with what you are saying. "I can take I-41 from Chicago to Green Bay" is easier for someone unfamiliar with the area, than "OK so you're gonna go 94 to Milwaukee, and when you get to the 894 bypass, go west and  follow that to I-41." I am all for the "One Number" philosophy, which is why I was big on bringing 55 or 57 up. Because why create another number? But we all know how that went. Now, 41 coming into Illinois, I believe, would bring more traffic up this way, because it makes 41 not "just another weird Wisconsin intrastate". At the same time encouraging, or at the very least, leaving the door open, for Illinois to follow suit and bring it even further into Chicago, perhaps to one of the major East-West Cross Country Interstates (thinking I-80, or I-90). I mean one could even argue to decommission US 41 from Indiana say, all the way to Marquette Michigan (where I believe it ends). Then there's no problem with Duplex of I-41/US41.

Long story short (too late), I'm calling it the Lizard Effect, how they can dip their tails into warm or cool water to regulate their temperature, We're dipping our tail as far into Illinois as possible to bring  bigger stuff northward and show the nation that we exist. This all makes sense in my head so if I've lost anyone I do apologize. Having a hard time using my words today apparently.

I *JUST* looked at Google Maps and figured out this could be a possiblity. Truncate US 41 at Hammond, IN, where it meets I-80.  PROBLEM SOLVED. BOOM.
Yes, that's another way to go. For one, everyone in Chicago calls it Lake Shore Drive, not US 41, so they wouldn't miss the number if it were gone from there.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: jprocknow on October 23, 2014, 01:30:17 PM
Quote from: merrycilantro on October 23, 2014, 12:51:59 PM
My opinion is, going along with the idea that bringing an Interstate through the Fox Valley and Fox Cities will attract business and what not, Taking I-41 down as far as it can go (i.e. 0.9 miles into Illinois) goes hand in hand with what you are saying. "I can take I-41 from Chicago to Green Bay" is easier for someone unfamiliar with the area, than "OK so you're gonna go 94 to Milwaukee, and when you get to the 894 bypass, go west and  follow that to I-41." I am all for the "One Number" philosophy, which is why I was big on bringing 55 or 57 up. Because why create another number? But we all know how that went. Now, 41 coming into Illinois, I believe, would bring more traffic up this way, because it makes 41 not "just another weird Wisconsin intrastate". At the same time encouraging, or at the very least, leaving the door open, for Illinois to follow suit and bring it even further into Chicago, perhaps to one of the major East-West Cross Country Interstates (thinking I-80, or I-90). I mean one could even argue to decommission US 41 from Indiana say, all the way to Marquette Michigan (where I believe it ends). Then there's no problem with Duplex of I-41/US41.

Long story short (too late), I'm calling it the Lizard Effect, how they can dip their tails into warm or cool water to regulate their temperature, We're dipping our tail as far into Illinois as possible to bring  bigger stuff northward and show the nation that we exist. This all makes sense in my head so if I've lost anyone I do apologize. Having a hard time using my words today apparently.

I *JUST* looked at Google Maps and figured out this could be a possiblity. Truncate US 41 at Hammond, IN, where it meets I-80.  PROBLEM SOLVED. BOOM.

I've got no issue with the "one number" philosophy.  It makes total sense and obviously simplifies giving directions.  The problem, clearly, is that not everyone is coming from the same place.  In your scenario, you'll still have to get a driver from Chicago to I-41 to send them to the Fox Valley, so you can't just say "take I-41 the whole way."  Do you remove one or two numbers while going through Milwaukee by designating I-41 to the border?  Yes, but I think it starts to split hairs when one asks, how many extra route interchanges is one too many.
As proposed right now, taking I-41 to IL is kind of poking them to continue it south (to where, exactly?), I agree with that.  But as it is, it IS one of those weird WI interstates, and is actually weirder to me by just taking it into IL <1 mile, especially when WisDOT uses that <1 mile as justification that it's now a bonafide inTERstate.  So what's stopping them from putting I-43 to Rockton Road?  Not consistent and just obscure all around.  Besides, AASTO (who yes, approved this I-41 plan) has a policy of limiting concurrencies between major junctions or cities.  It's an old policy, but I don't see how in today's world it's now obsolete.  Maybe routing it there is the impetus for some agency (or IL themselves) to extend I-41 to Chicago proper some day, but until then it's just strange (to me).  And unnecessarily expensive.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Brandon on October 23, 2014, 01:39:52 PM
Quote from: merrycilantro on October 23, 2014, 12:51:59 PM
I *JUST* looked at Google Maps and figured out this could be a possiblity. Truncate US 41 at Hammond, IN, where it meets I-80.  PROBLEM SOLVED. BOOM.

I'm sure Menominee, Escanaba, Marquette, and Houghton will be ever-so-pleased, NOT!

And, BTW, US-41 ends just past Copper Harbor, Michigan.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on October 23, 2014, 02:02:31 PM
I just realized that before I could edit it. I'm thinking perhaps of US 51. Whole 'nother ball game. If they were to truncate 41, logically speaking, I-41 could go all the way to I-80 duplexed on I-294 or even supplanting if they so chose. Thus making it a truly Chicago-Northward interstate and providing number continuity throughout. Maybe even ditching I-94 and having that end in Milwaukee, but that would mean a whole bunch of re-signing and headaches and money. Not to mention delving into the Fictional Highways Realm.

I'm still pointing the finger of blame at IDOT here.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Brandon on October 23, 2014, 03:38:19 PM
Quote from: merrycilantro on October 23, 2014, 02:02:31 PM
I'm still pointing the finger of blame at IDOT here.

Oh, IDiOT (and the IDPW) deserves a lot of the blame.  Had they simply extended I-57 or I-55 (I-57 would've been easy), all of this would've been unnecessary.  But, IDOT (and IDPW) is fairly pig-headed when it comes to A) working with other states, and B) building/widening roads for nonpolitical reasons.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on October 23, 2014, 03:50:25 PM
The B) Option makes it sound all 1920's Al Capone. :) Just had to make that reference. But no, I'm right there with ya on the 55/57 thing.

I guess one can now say no matter where you are in Eastern Wisconsin, "All 41s lead to Chicago"...one way or another...regardless of the color of the sign :)

Maybe someone will come along and reconfigure all the numbering...and all we'd have to do is just swap signs for some (money saver!) to make the Interstate System make way better sense once again. Or, relegate the sign making to the prisoners like they do for license plates! gotta keep them busy anyway!
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on October 23, 2014, 07:23:46 PM
Quote from: Brandon on October 23, 2014, 01:39:52 PM
Quote from: merrycilantro on October 23, 2014, 12:51:59 PM
I *JUST* looked at Google Maps and figured out this could be a possiblity. Truncate US 41 at Hammond, IN, where it meets I-80.  PROBLEM SOLVED. BOOM.

I'm sure Menominee, Escanaba, Marquette, and Houghton will be ever-so-pleased, NOT!

And, BTW, US-41 ends just past Copper Harbor, Michigan.

I've also posited in several branches of AARoads the idea of someday further extending 'I-41' southward from the Tri-State Tollway (after replacing I-94 through the 'city') via IL 394 to ultimately replace US 41 and the Pennyrile Parkway to end at I-24 near Hopkinsville, KY.

:nod:

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on October 23, 2014, 07:51:17 PM
Quote from: Brandon on October 23, 2014, 01:39:52 PM
Quote from: merrycilantro on October 23, 2014, 12:51:59 PM
I *JUST* looked at Google Maps and figured out this could be a possiblity. Truncate US 41 at Hammond, IN, where it meets I-80.  PROBLEM SOLVED. BOOM.

I'm sure Menominee, Escanaba, Marquette, and Houghton will be ever-so-pleased, NOT!

And, BTW, US-41 ends just past Copper Harbor, Michigan.

I am for having a gap in US 41 after the promotion.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on October 24, 2014, 10:21:48 AM
mgk and triple, i just wrote a post in the Fictional Board yesterday about how I think 41 could be truncated...I'll have to poke around and look but i'd be interested to see how the ideas jive.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Henry on October 28, 2014, 12:07:56 PM
Quote from: merrycilantro on October 23, 2014, 02:02:31 PM
I just realized that before I could edit it. I'm thinking perhaps of US 51. Whole 'nother ball game. If they were to truncate 41, logically speaking, I-41 could go all the way to I-80 duplexed on I-294 or even supplanting if they so chose. Thus making it a truly Chicago-Northward interstate and providing number continuity throughout. Maybe even ditching I-94 and having that end in Milwaukee, but that would mean a whole bunch of re-signing and headaches and money. Not to mention delving into the Fictional Highways Realm.

I'm still pointing the finger of blame at IDOT here.
Well, there's still I-92 for the Chicago-Detroit route. I think that was actually proposed some time ago.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on October 28, 2014, 02:10:25 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on October 23, 2014, 07:23:46 PM
Quote from: Brandon on October 23, 2014, 01:39:52 PM
Quote from: merrycilantro on October 23, 2014, 12:51:59 PM
I *JUST* looked at Google Maps and figured out this could be a possiblity. Truncate US 41 at Hammond, IN, where it meets I-80.  PROBLEM SOLVED. BOOM.

I'm sure Menominee, Escanaba, Marquette, and Houghton will be ever-so-pleased, NOT!

And, BTW, US-41 ends just past Copper Harbor, Michigan.

I've also posited in several branches of AARoads the idea of someday further extending 'I-41' southward from the Tri-State Tollway (after replacing I-94 through the 'city') via IL 394 to ultimately replace US 41 and the Pennyrile Parkway to end at I-24 near Hopkinsville, KY.

:nod:

Mike


Have you ever been on that stretch of US-41?  The northern part from Lake County down to I-74 is very lightly traveled.  The current four lane set up works just fine.

The southern section between I-74 and Evansville is busier but I still don't think is worthy of any sort of upgrade.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on October 28, 2014, 08:17:12 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 28, 2014, 02:10:25 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on October 23, 2014, 07:23:46 PM
Quote from: Brandon on October 23, 2014, 01:39:52 PM
Quote from: merrycilantro on October 23, 2014, 12:51:59 PM
I *JUST* looked at Google Maps and figured out this could be a possiblity. Truncate US 41 at Hammond, IN, where it meets I-80.  PROBLEM SOLVED. BOOM.

I'm sure Menominee, Escanaba, Marquette, and Houghton will be ever-so-pleased, NOT!

And, BTW, US-41 ends just past Copper Harbor, Michigan.

I've also posited in several branches of AARoads the idea of someday further extending 'I-41' southward from the Tri-State Tollway (after replacing I-94 through the 'city') via IL 394 to ultimately replace US 41 and the Pennyrile Parkway to end at I-24 near Hopkinsville, KY.

:nod:

Mike


Have you ever been on that stretch of US-41?  The northern part from Lake County down to I-74 is very lightly traveled.  The current four lane set up works just fine.

The southern section between I-74 and Evansville is busier but I still don't think is worthy of any sort of upgrade.

I'm thinking that a big part of its 'lightly-traveled' thing is that it is not a full freeway, complete with the STOPSTOPSTOPSTOPSTOP thing that such Indiana highways are famous for.  It would be a direct shot between the upper Great Lakes region and the USA's southeast without having to pass through any other big city metro areas between Chicagoland and Nashville.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on October 29, 2014, 03:41:05 PM
Perhaps at some point they will get new and improved talking heads in IDOT and those in charge of WisDOT will get together and figure it out...maybe 50 years in the future when the Interstate system is obsolete LOL.

Realistically speaking though I'd push for a Joliet to Escanaba Route, at least have the one number nice-ness from the Heartland up to the UP where the only Interstate they have is 75 way on the East.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on October 29, 2014, 07:49:31 PM
Quote from: merrycilantro on October 29, 2014, 03:41:05 PM
Perhaps at some point they will get new and improved talking heads in IDOT and those in charge of WisDOT will get together and figure it out...maybe 50 years in the future when the Interstate system is obsolete LOL.

Realistically speaking though I'd push for a Joliet to Escanaba Route, at least have the one number nice-ness from the Heartland up to the UP where the only Interstate they have is 75 way on the East.
They won't
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on October 30, 2014, 09:23:13 AM
does anybody know when Congress is supposed to meet to approve or disapprove the exception so the covers can be taken off of I-41?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on October 30, 2014, 11:14:36 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on October 28, 2014, 08:17:12 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 28, 2014, 02:10:25 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on October 23, 2014, 07:23:46 PM
Quote from: Brandon on October 23, 2014, 01:39:52 PM
Quote from: merrycilantro on October 23, 2014, 12:51:59 PM
I *JUST* looked at Google Maps and figured out this could be a possiblity. Truncate US 41 at Hammond, IN, where it meets I-80.  PROBLEM SOLVED. BOOM.

I'm sure Menominee, Escanaba, Marquette, and Houghton will be ever-so-pleased, NOT!

And, BTW, US-41 ends just past Copper Harbor, Michigan.

I've also posited in several branches of AARoads the idea of someday further extending 'I-41' southward from the Tri-State Tollway (after replacing I-94 through the 'city') via IL 394 to ultimately replace US 41 and the Pennyrile Parkway to end at I-24 near Hopkinsville, KY.

:nod:

Mike


Have you ever been on that stretch of US-41?  The northern part from Lake County down to I-74 is very lightly traveled.  The current four lane set up works just fine.

The southern section between I-74 and Evansville is busier but I still don't think is worthy of any sort of upgrade.

I'm thinking that a big part of its 'lightly-traveled' thing is that it is not a full freeway, complete with the STOPSTOPSTOPSTOPSTOP thing that such Indiana highways are famous for.  It would be a direct shot between the upper Great Lakes region and the USA's southeast without having to pass through any other big city metro areas between Chicagoland and Nashville.


But again, that isn't how most people use interstates.  Interstates are used mostly for regional traffic between metropolitan areas.  And I don't think it is worth it to dump a bunch of money into US-41 so people can avoid Indianapolis and Louisville...which are the two metropolitan areas that you would bypass.

If traffic on I-65 is that much of a problem, add a lane.  A much cheaper alternative than throwing money into a corridor that is arguably overbuilt with a four lane road.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on October 30, 2014, 11:15:03 AM
Quote from: merrycilantro on October 30, 2014, 09:23:13 AM
does anybody know when Congress is supposed to meet to approve or disapprove the exception so the covers can be taken off of I-41?


There will be a lame duck session after the elections.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: english si on October 30, 2014, 03:46:47 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 30, 2014, 11:14:36 AMIf traffic on I-65 is that much of a problem, add a lane.  A much cheaper alternative than throwing money into a corridor that is arguably overbuilt with a four lane road.
Adding a lane usually costs the same as building a new four lane route due to traffic management.

Certainly France has a tendency to build a parallel route rather than widen, but recently (A79, A24) environmental issues get in the way and their economy sucks, so they've shelved many duplication plans.

With parts already freeway and most 4-lane, you'd not have that much construction to do on US41 in IN, but at the same time, you'd have some traffic management costs. Widening I-65 might work out cheaper, but probably not much cheaper.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on October 31, 2014, 09:21:09 AM
I had heard once that IDOT wanted to be the state with the most interstates, or maybe the most interstates in the region, or something like that...Anyway, you'd think then, that they wouldn't mind bringing I-41 down thru Chicagoland instead of just letting I-41 dip its toes in the waters of Illinois...although, if that statement were true, what's the difference between 0.9 miles and say 60 miles (i don't know the actual distance it would be if it would go to I-80), I-41 still goes into IL so it counts...Technicalities...
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: thefro on October 31, 2014, 10:06:46 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on October 28, 2014, 08:17:12 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 28, 2014, 02:10:25 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on October 23, 2014, 07:23:46 PM
Quote from: Brandon on October 23, 2014, 01:39:52 PM
Quote from: merrycilantro on October 23, 2014, 12:51:59 PM
I *JUST* looked at Google Maps and figured out this could be a possiblity. Truncate US 41 at Hammond, IN, where it meets I-80.  PROBLEM SOLVED. BOOM.

I'm sure Menominee, Escanaba, Marquette, and Houghton will be ever-so-pleased, NOT!

And, BTW, US-41 ends just past Copper Harbor, Michigan.

I've also posited in several branches of AARoads the idea of someday further extending 'I-41' southward from the Tri-State Tollway (after replacing I-94 through the 'city') via IL 394 to ultimately replace US 41 and the Pennyrile Parkway to end at I-24 near Hopkinsville, KY.

:nod:

Mike


Have you ever been on that stretch of US-41?  The northern part from Lake County down to I-74 is very lightly traveled.  The current four lane set up works just fine.

The southern section between I-74 and Evansville is busier but I still don't think is worthy of any sort of upgrade.

I'm thinking that a big part of its 'lightly-traveled' thing is that it is not a full freeway, complete with the STOPSTOPSTOPSTOPSTOP thing that such Indiana highways are famous for.  It would be a direct shot between the upper Great Lakes region and the USA's southeast without having to pass through any other big city metro areas between Chicagoland and Nashville.

Mike

There's only a 30 mile difference in length between US 41 and the I-65 route.  I could see it making some sense for Indiana to upgrade US 41 to a full freeway between Evansville and Terre Haute, but it would serve no purpose between Terre Haute and Lake County.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Revive 755 on November 10, 2014, 09:18:08 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on October 28, 2014, 08:17:12 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on October 28, 2014, 02:10:25 PM
Have you ever been on that stretch of US-41?  The northern part from Lake County down to I-74 is very lightly traveled.  The current four lane set up works just fine.

The southern section between I-74 and Evansville is busier but I still don't think is worthy of any sort of upgrade.

I'm thinking that a big part of its 'lightly-traveled' thing is that it is not a full freeway, complete with the STOPSTOPSTOPSTOPSTOP thing that such Indiana highways are famous for.  It would be a direct shot between the upper Great Lakes region and the USA's southeast without having to pass through any other big city metro areas between Chicagoland and Nashville.

Mike

I don't think the congested, stoplight infested stretch of US 41 between Cedar Lake and I-80/I-94 helps get traffic to use US 41 over I-65 either.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on November 11, 2014, 06:23:20 AM
I just drove US-41 between Chicago and Nashville yesterday.  It isn't an easily route to upgrade.  There are stretches where the current four lanes would work fine.  But there are also many places where new terrain routes would be a necessity, including a Terre Haute bypass, which wouldn't be cheap.  And as mentioned above, you are only talking about subtracting 30 miles between the two cities.

I have a hard time believing that this would be a less expensive option than simply adding a lane to the current I-65 over the course of time.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on November 11, 2014, 12:46:23 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 11, 2014, 06:23:20 AM
I just drove US-41 between Chicago and Nashville yesterday.  It isn't an easily route to upgrade.  There are stretches where the current four lanes would work fine.  But there are also many places where new terrain routes would be a necessity, including a Terre Haute bypass, which wouldn't be cheap.  And as mentioned above, you are only talking about subtracting 30 miles between the two cities.

I have a hard time believing that this would be a less expensive option than simply adding a lane to the current I-65 over the course of time.

Is IN 641 ultimately planned to be a complete US 41 bypass of Terre Haute?

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on November 11, 2014, 04:34:41 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on November 11, 2014, 12:46:23 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on November 11, 2014, 06:23:20 AM
I just drove US-41 between Chicago and Nashville yesterday.  It isn't an easily route to upgrade.  There are stretches where the current four lanes would work fine.  But there are also many places where new terrain routes would be a necessity, including a Terre Haute bypass, which wouldn't be cheap.  And as mentioned above, you are only talking about subtracting 30 miles between the two cities.

I have a hard time believing that this would be a less expensive option than simply adding a lane to the current I-65 over the course of time.

Is IN 641 ultimately planned to be a complete US 41 bypass of Terre Haute?

Mike


No I think it is only supposed to go from US-41 south of town to the IN-46 interchange with I-70.

I would think that a true bypass would need to be routed to the west, crossing the Wabash just south of the federal prison, swing just west of West Terre Haute, and hooking back east to IN-63.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: jprocknow on November 11, 2014, 05:13:44 PM
There is apparently talk of making it a full eastern bypass but the north half is a long way off from being built.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Big John on November 22, 2014, 07:05:07 PM
Google Maps have jumped the gun and are labeling it "Interstate 41"  Words only, no shields

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5235864,-87.9478484,16z
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: jprocknow on November 24, 2014, 09:32:27 AM
They're not quite sure where it's going, apparently.

https://goo.gl/maps/yP8mY
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: tchafe1978 on November 24, 2014, 11:20:25 AM
Looks like they just plastered it on the whole route of US 41, as it's also labeled Interstate 41 on Appleton Ave. and the stadium Freeway.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: skluth on November 24, 2014, 09:05:50 PM
Quote from: tchafe1978 on November 24, 2014, 11:20:25 AM
Looks like they just plastered it on the whole route of US 41, as it's also labeled Interstate 41 on Appleton Ave. and the stadium Freeway.

I thought you might have meant the Zoo Freeway. But you are correct. Google is definitely out to lunch on the Stadium Freeway.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: dfwmapper on November 25, 2014, 12:57:04 AM
Dumbass Google editor added the name to all of US 41 from where it merges with I-94 just south of the border all the way to Menominee. Outsourcing to India at its finest.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: vtk on November 25, 2014, 04:24:34 PM
At least they got the southern terminus right.  It wouldn't have surprised me to see the whole thing all the way down to Dixie co-labelled Interstate 41.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on December 11, 2014, 03:11:56 PM
According to Sen. Baldwin's office, the bill to grandfather the weight limits along US41 once the change is made to interstate status is in the Omnibus Appropriations bill that both House & Senate are expected to pass this week.

We called DOT but they didn't want to talk about next steps...
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on December 11, 2014, 11:24:05 PM
Quote from: Fox 11 News on December 11, 2014, 03:11:56 PM
According to Sen. Baldwin's office, the bill to grandfather the weight limits along US41 once the change is made to interstate status is in the Omnibus Appropriations bill that both House & Senate are expected to pass this week.

We called DOT but they didn't want to talk about next steps...

I was wondering if I-41 was included in the omnibus bill. It's certainly been awhile. Thanks much for the update.

FYI, the newly completed Watertown Plank interchange is chock full of covered I-41 signs.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: jprocknow on December 11, 2014, 11:27:14 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on December 11, 2014, 11:24:05 PM
Quote from: Fox 11 News on December 11, 2014, 03:11:56 PM
According to Sen. Baldwin's office, the bill to grandfather the weight limits along US41 once the change is made to interstate status is in the Omnibus Appropriations bill that both House & Senate are expected to pass this week.

We called DOT but they didn't want to talk about next steps...

I was wondering if I-41 was included in the omnibus bill. It's certainly been awhile. Thanks much for the update.

FYI, the newly completed Watertown Plank interchange is chock full of covered I-41 signs.

What a sprawling exit that has become...Can't wait to see how it flows once it's fully open and busy.  It was really odd to drive Watertown Plank Road under the four bridges and have no traffic lights at all.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on December 12, 2014, 05:02:23 AM
Quote from: jprocknow on December 11, 2014, 11:27:14 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on December 11, 2014, 11:24:05 PM
Quote from: Fox 11 News on December 11, 2014, 03:11:56 PM
According to Sen. Baldwin's office, the bill to grandfather the weight limits along US41 once the change is made to interstate status is in the Omnibus Appropriations bill that both House & Senate are expected to pass this week.

We called DOT but they didn't want to talk about next steps...

I was wondering if I-41 was included in the omnibus bill. It's certainly been awhile. Thanks much for the update.

FYI, the newly completed Watertown Plank interchange is chock full of covered I-41 signs.

What a sprawling exit that has become...Can't wait to see how it flows once it's fully open and busy.  It was really odd to drive Watertown Plank Road under the four bridges and have no traffic lights at all.
See 27th st and I-894
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: US 41 on December 12, 2014, 07:20:27 AM
Quote from: jprocknow on November 11, 2014, 05:13:44 PM
There is apparently talk of making it a full eastern bypass but the north half is a long way off from being built.

Most likely it will never be built. It's getting too built up on the north side of Terre Haute and SR 46 has become the new hotbed for stores. It would be too difficult to upgrade SR 46 on the east side of Terre Haute.

EDIT: The only chance US 41 had of becoming a freeway was between Terre Haute and Evansville as I-69. INDOT may one day upgrade US 41 (and 63) across Indiana, but I wouldn't count on it.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: jprocknow on December 12, 2014, 09:20:01 AM
Quote from: SSOWorld on December 12, 2014, 05:02:23 AM
See 27th st and I-894

I know the layouts are similar, but WTP is definitely bigger.  It's got those loop ramps that 27th doesn't and Swan Blvd is also part of it, to me.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on December 12, 2014, 09:38:31 AM
http://fox11online.com/2014/12/11/u-s-41-one-step-closer-to-becoming-interstate-41/
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on December 12, 2014, 11:35:36 AM
Quote from: jprocknow on December 12, 2014, 09:20:01 AM
Quote from: SSOWorld on December 12, 2014, 05:02:23 AM
See 27th st and I-894

I know the layouts are similar, but WTP is definitely bigger.  It's got those loop ramps that 27th doesn't and Swan Blvd is also part of it, to me.

The new TH100 Interchange west of the zoo is a half variation. Only one U-ramp. It is scheduled to possibly be open by today.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Henry on December 12, 2014, 11:58:40 AM
So now that I-41 is another step closer to becoming reality, how long before we get I-341 in Milwaukee and I-441 in Appleton? (to replace the same-numbered state routes that exist in their respective locations)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: jprocknow on December 12, 2014, 12:55:53 PM
Quote from: Henry on December 12, 2014, 11:58:40 AM
So now that I-41 is another step closer to becoming reality, how long before we get I-341 in Milwaukee and I-441 in Appleton? (to replace the same-numbered state routes that exist in their respective locations)

I'm not sure you'll see I-341.  It doesn't connect to it's parent, unless of course WisDOT wants to duplex it on I-94 to the Zoo.  Shh, don't give them any ideas.
I-441 is probably likely.  When, I dunno.  In their reasoning for making the route a 2di instead of 3di, WisDOT said that it designating it I-41 allows auxiliary interstates to branch off.  (Nevermind Tulsa, Oakland, Gaithersburg, MD, or Buffalo)  The major hold up on the designation would be making at least one of the missing ramps, from 441 to SB I-41.  The stub is just waiting for a flyover!  Another could be smoothing the turns east of the Little Butte des Morts Bridge.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on December 12, 2014, 01:05:21 PM
Quote from: Henry on December 12, 2014, 11:58:40 AM
So now that I-41 is another step closer to becoming reality, how long before we get I-341 in Milwaukee and I-441 in Appleton? (to replace the same-numbered state routes that exist in their respective locations)

TH341 is nowhere near the new I-41. It may be renumbered as TH175, or stay as is. And I highly doubt any of the Stadium Freeway is interstate-eligible.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on December 12, 2014, 01:49:57 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on December 12, 2014, 01:05:21 PM
Quote from: Henry on December 12, 2014, 11:58:40 AM
So now that I-41 is another step closer to becoming reality, how long before we get I-341 in Milwaukee and I-441 in Appleton? (to replace the same-numbered state routes that exist in their respective locations)

TH341 is nowhere near the new I-41. It may be renumbered as TH175, or stay as is. And I highly doubt any of the Stadium Freeway is interstate-eligible.

I believe renumbering WI-341 to WI-175 is already a done deal.  There were some sign plans a while back for the I-94 project that specified signing Miller Park Way as WI-175.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on December 12, 2014, 02:16:30 PM
and it won't be signed until Sept 2015.

Really - WHY WAIT!!!???
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Big John on December 12, 2014, 02:26:50 PM
Quote from: jprocknow on December 12, 2014, 12:55:53 PM
Quote from: Henry on December 12, 2014, 11:58:40 AM
So now that I-41 is another step closer to becoming reality, how long before we get I-341 in Milwaukee and I-441 in Appleton? (to replace the same-numbered state routes that exist in their respective locations)

I'm not sure you'll see I-341.  It doesn't connect to it's parent, unless of course WisDOT wants to duplex it on I-94 to the Zoo.  Shh, don't give them any ideas.
I-441 is probably likely.  When, I dunno.  In their reasoning for making the route a 2di instead of 3di, WisDOT said that it designating it I-41 allows auxiliary interstates to branch off.  (Nevermind Tulsa, Oakland, Gaithersburg, MD, or Buffalo)  The major hold up on the designation would be making at least one of the missing ramps, from 441 to SB I-41.  The stub is just waiting for a flyover!  Another could be smoothing the turns east of the Little Butte des Morts Bridge.
They are working on doing those now, with parts currently under construction.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Big John on December 12, 2014, 02:28:13 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on December 12, 2014, 01:05:21 PM
Quote from: Henry on December 12, 2014, 11:58:40 AM
So now that I-41 is another step closer to becoming reality, how long before we get I-341 in Milwaukee and I-441 in Appleton? (to replace the same-numbered state routes that exist in their respective locations)

TH341 is nowhere near the new I-41. It may be renumbered as TH175, or stay as is. And I highly doubt any of the Stadium Freeway is interstate-eligible.
FYI, TH is used in Minnesota.  WI uses STH for state highways and CTH for county highways.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on December 12, 2014, 03:17:04 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on December 12, 2014, 02:16:30 PM
and it won't be signed until Sept 2015.

Really - WHY WAIT!!!???

It appears they may need two things, at least according to the WisDot page:
- A signed environmental document
- Approved formal conversion request package

And the Petri's release said this:
"Once the bill passes Congress and becomes law, the Wisconsin Department of Transportation has stated that nearly all other requirements have been met and Interstate signage could be up by September 2015.  It is prepared to formally seek the Interstate designation from the U.S. Department of Transportation after the legislation passes"

As I said, DOT didn't want to talk to us about it. Maybe it will take that long to get the approval, order the signs and then put them up. Maybe they won't unveil the existing ones until they are all ready?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: jprocknow on December 12, 2014, 03:40:55 PM
Here's more info on that:
From WisDOT email to me: ASHTO has given us conditional approval of I-41 based on FHWA HQ approval. FHWA Wisconsin Division has indicated that they would help us send  the well coordinated request package for  approval thru Washington HQ quite quickly after legislation passage.
AASHTO doesn't meet every day for things like this; more like quarterly I think.  Then they have to open the signing project up for bids to see who will do it cheapest/fastest.  Then they have to make the signs.  Yes, some are already up in the Milwaukee area and covered, but that's only a small portion of them.  I don't know how many signs, but I bet they will be the shield-in-the-mile-marker type and those seem to be every 0.5 miles these days.
In summary, prep the approval package, wait for AASHTO to meet to approve it, find somebody willing to do the work, make the signs, put them up.  I'd say nine months is a good estimate.  If they can coordinate with the AASHTO meeting to minimize the time between the package sending and approval, maybe they'll be up sooner.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: vtk on December 12, 2014, 04:11:14 PM
I thought AASHTO has already done its part (conditional approval).  Does not "conditional approval" automatically become "approval" once the condition is met?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: jprocknow on December 12, 2014, 04:13:07 PM
Not sure, but to me, conditional approval is "if you do this and this, it's good to go."  This formal request package hopefully outlines everything they did to meet the requirements of conditional approval and then approval is probably a formality at that point.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on December 12, 2014, 04:20:45 PM
Quote from: Big John on December 12, 2014, 02:26:50 PM
Quote from: jprocknow on December 12, 2014, 12:55:53 PM
Quote from: Henry on December 12, 2014, 11:58:40 AM
So now that I-41 is another step closer to becoming reality, how long before we get I-341 in Milwaukee and I-441 in Appleton? (to replace the same-numbered state routes that exist in their respective locations)

I'm not sure you'll see I-341.  It doesn't connect to it's parent, unless of course WisDOT wants to duplex it on I-94 to the Zoo.  Shh, don't give them any ideas.
I-441 is probably likely.  When, I dunno.  In their reasoning for making the route a 2di instead of 3di, WisDOT said that it designating it I-41 allows auxiliary interstates to branch off.  (Nevermind Tulsa, Oakland, Gaithersburg, MD, or Buffalo)  The major hold up on the designation would be making at least one of the missing ramps, from 441 to SB I-41.  The stub is just waiting for a flyover!  Another could be smoothing the turns east of the Little Butte des Morts Bridge.
They are working on doing those now, with parts currently under construction.

Yepper, a half-billion dollar 5-6 year project, it started this past summer.

See the 'US 10/WI 441 Upgrade Thread!' in this subforvm for the ongoing nitty-gritty on it.

:nod:

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on December 12, 2014, 07:12:27 PM
Looks like it has finally cleared the Senate. Apparently, a couple senators had been holding it up, for unknown reasons.



On Friday, the Senate passed a provision, authored by Sen. Tammy Baldwin, D-Wisconsin, approving the weight restrictions waiver as part of a $1.1 million omnibus spending bill – an action that came as welcome news for U.S. Reps. Tom Petri, R-Fond du Lac and Reid Ribble, R-Sherwood, who proposed similar legislation in the House last year."A couple of senators had put holds on this in the past," said Petri, whose vote on the Housebill marked his last before retiring at the end of this year. "Those holds have been broken, and the process is moving forward."

(snip)

"As soon as this is signed by the president, I'm sure the state will sign the agreement to abide by interstate standards and start putting up the signs from Chicago to Green Bay," he said.

http://www.sheboyganpress.com/story/news/local/2014/12/12/highway-interstate-designation-wisconsin/20319573/
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on December 15, 2014, 10:33:59 AM
Today's DOT release:

Wisconsin Department of Transportation–Northeast Region, Green Bay

December 15, 2014

For more information, contact:
Kim Rudat, WisDOT regional communications manager
(920) 492-5743, kim.rudat@dot.wi.gov

Federal legislation will enable converting US 41 to an Interstate

Governor Scott Walker and Wisconsin Department of Transportation (WisDOT) Secretary Mark Gottlieb thanked the Wisconsin congressional delegation for their efforts to pass federal legislation to enable the state to continue with plans to convert US 41 to an Interstate from the Illinois border north to Green Bay.

"US 41 connects crucial regions of Wisconsin with economic impacts that benefit local, state and regional economies. Converting the corridor to an Interstate highway will improve safety, mobility and economic development,"  noted Governor Walker. "I appreciate the efforts of Wisconsin's congressional delegation, especially those of Congressman Petri who worked over many years to bring this project to fruition."

WisDOT Secretary Mark Gottlieb said, "The Congressional action will allow us to move forward with the conversion of 175 miles of US Highway 41 to an Interstate highway route."  

The WisDOT plan calls for replacing or modifying 3,500 signs beginning in September 2015 after necessary coordination with the Illinois Department of Transportation and the Federal Highway Administration, along with completion of the required bid process.

Benefits of converting to an Interstate highway include:
-   Interstate highways provide a corridor identity and encourage growth. Nineteen of the 26 major distribution centers in Wisconsin are located within five miles of an Interstate.
-   Interstate status will elevate US 41 from a regionally-known freeway to a nationally recognized corridor. This will allow communities along the route to be competitive when large corporations are looking for market expansion locations.
-   Companies looking to relocate or expand consistently put highway accessibility at the top of their list. Many have stated they will only relocate or expand near an Interstate.
-   The corridor's approximate center point, Fond du Lac, is within a day's drive of all other major Midwestern US metropolitan areas containing 15 percent of the country's population.
-   The extension along I-94 links the Fox Valley and Green Bay metropolitan areas and markets to the greater Chicago metropolitan area. Chicago is the economic epicenter of the entire Midwest and a key hub near the end of the corridor.

In 2005, US 41 from Milwaukee to Green Bay was identified by the federal government for inclusion in the US Interstate Highway System and planning for the Interstate conversion began in 2007. In May 2011, Governor Walker committed state resources to complete a study and move ahead with the project. The federal legislation was needed to allow certain commercial trucks to continue operating on the corridor after Interstate conversion.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on December 15, 2014, 11:12:30 AM
^^
Anyone up for a 'US(I)-41' roadgeek meet in September, 2015?

:nod:

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: OCGuy81 on December 18, 2014, 05:17:25 PM
Great information! Will they now uncover the I-41 shields they already installed along parts of I-894?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on December 18, 2014, 10:13:09 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on December 18, 2014, 05:17:25 PM
Great information! Will they now uncover the I-41 shields they already installed along parts of I-894?
Nope. why? because WisDOT.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: jprocknow on December 18, 2014, 10:29:09 PM
They're considering the possibility of duplexing I-41 with I-43.  Because overlaps are WisDOT.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on December 18, 2014, 10:52:19 PM
Quote from: jprocknow on December 18, 2014, 10:29:09 PM
They're considering the possibility of duplexing I-41 with I-43.  Because overlaps are WisDOT.

As mentioned a few pages upstream, there will be a 'wrong way' pairing of the two on the east-west part of I-894.

:spin:

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: jprocknow on December 18, 2014, 11:04:13 PM
I was being sarcastic about wrapping it around Green Bay, so they can connect Fond Du Lac with Oshkosh with one I number.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: jreuschl on December 22, 2014, 01:24:31 AM
Would US 45 from Richfield to West Bend be a 3DI candidate?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on December 22, 2014, 11:23:45 AM
Quote from: jreuschl on December 22, 2014, 01:24:31 AM
Would US 45 from Richfield to West Bend be a 3DI candidate?

Very doubtful. Probably not much point. Unless West Bend businesses start screaming for it and the state is willing to pay to upgrade it.

And, before anyone asks, the WIS145 'freeway' stub in NE Milwaukee will never be an interstate. Unless groups are really gung-ho about a near-empty freeway that dumps traffic off into the middle of the North side.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: jprocknow on December 22, 2014, 12:32:25 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on December 22, 2014, 11:23:45 AM
Quote from: jreuschl on December 22, 2014, 01:24:31 AM
Would US 45 from Richfield to West Bend be a 3DI candidate?

Very doubtful. Probably not much point. Unless West Bend businesses start screaming for it and the state is willing to pay to upgrade it.

And, before anyone asks, the WIS145 'freeway' stub in NE Milwaukee will never be an interstate. Unless groups are really gung-ho about a near-empty freeway that dumps traffic off into the middle of the North side.

They'd never make that interchange (145) full access (I hope); there's no point and it would probably be crazy expensive.  You don't need full access for an I route but it's usually the case.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on March 03, 2015, 09:30:20 AM
One of the more problematic ramps - 41 North to 43 South - is now closed.

http://fox11online.com/2015/03/02/road-construction-project-starting-today-in-the-green-bay-area/

Trucks tipping their load was a too-common happening on that stretch.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on March 03, 2015, 10:22:54 AM
Quote from: Fox 11 News on March 03, 2015, 09:30:20 AM
One of the more problematic ramps - 41 North to 43 South - is now closed.

http://fox11online.com/2015/03/02/road-construction-project-starting-today-in-the-green-bay-area/

Trucks tipping their load was a too-common happening on that stretch.

I'm going to miss that ramp . . . .

<sniffle>

:-(

.

.

.

.

But that new one is going to be WAAAYY KEWL to drive!

:cheers:

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: ET21 on March 03, 2015, 07:50:34 PM
Quote from: Fox 11 News on March 03, 2015, 09:30:20 AM
One of the more problematic ramps - 41 North to 43 South - is now closed.

http://fox11online.com/2015/03/02/road-construction-project-starting-today-in-the-green-bay-area/

Trucks tipping their load was a too-common happening on that stretch.

Wonder how many different types of truck loads were accidentally tipped lol
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: amroad17 on March 06, 2015, 07:49:30 PM
I had forgotten about that odd ramp set-up that I had once driven.  Was it built that way because of the wetlands in the southeast quadrant of the interchange?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Big John on March 06, 2015, 08:38:57 PM
Quote from: amroad17 on March 06, 2015, 07:49:30 PM
I had forgotten about that odd ramp set-up that I had once driven.  Was it built that way because of the wetlands in the southeast quadrant of the interchange?
More to allow room for that interchange and the Velp Ave interchange with direct access from one to the other.  The new freeway won't allow direct access for both.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on April 09, 2015, 02:02:30 PM

Governor Scott Walker Announces US 41 Officially Added to Interstate System
Federal Highway Administration approval means I-41 signs will start going up in summer

Madison — Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker announced today that U.S. 41 in the eastern part of the state has been officially added to the Interstate System as I-41.

"The Interstate designation is the culmination of years of hard work by federal, state, and local officials that will stimulate economic opportunities from Milwaukee to Green Bay and beyond,"  Governor Walker said.  "Our Interstate system is a critical part of our infrastructure, which fuels commerce, helps grow the economy, and create jobs."

The Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) officially approved the Interstate designation — the final step in a process that began nearly 10 years ago.  Installation of about 3,000 new signs will begin this summer with signing expected to be completed by November 2015.

"The official designation of I-41 is tremendous news that will support the safe, efficient movement of people and commerce for many years to come,"  said Wisconsin Department of Transportation Secretary Mark Gottlieb.  "Along with Governor Walker's leadership, I want to thank former Congressman Tom Petri, our current Congressional delegation, state legislators, local government officials, and community leaders who helped make I-41 a reality."

Wisconsin's newest Interstate route runs concurrently with US 41 for the entire route.  I-41 begins at the I-94/US 41 interchange located about one mile south of the Wisconsin/Illinois border.  It follows I-94 north to the Mitchell Interchange, I-894 and US 45 around Milwaukee and then joins US 41 north to Green Bay where it ends at the I-43 Interchange.

Existing US 41 in the Milwaukee area will be re-routed to follow I-41 along I-894 and US 45.  Current US 41 along Lisbon Avenue and Appleton Avenue from I-94 at the Stadium Interchange northwesterly to the interchange with US 45 will be re-numbered WIS 175.

Additional benefits in designating US 41 part of the Interstate System include:

-   Interstates provide a corridor identify, which encourages growth.  Of the 26 major distribution centers in Wisconsin, 73 percent are located within five miles of an Interstate.
-   The design standards for the Interstate system ensure high levels of mobility and safety.
-   Interstate status will elevate US 41 from a regionally-known freeway to a nationally recognized corridor.  This will allow communities along the route to be competitive when large corporations are looking for market expansion locations.

In 2005, US 41 from Milwaukee to Green Bay was identified by the federal government for inclusion in the US Interstate Highway System.  Planning for the Interstate conversion began in 2007.  In May 2011, Governor Scott Walker committed state resources to continue work on the study and make I-41 a reality.  As part of this effort, federal legislation was needed to allow certain commercial trucks to continue operating on the corridor after Interstate conversion.  That legislation was passed in December 2014. 

For more information go to  http://www.dot.wi.gov/projects/neregion/41/index.htm

Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on April 09, 2015, 04:13:10 PM
 :cheers:

NOW guys and gals - your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to hunt down and photograph the first 'I-41' sign to be officially posted 'in the wild' in each county that it passes through.

:nod:

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: OCGuy81 on April 09, 2015, 04:47:40 PM
Really going to find the I-41/US 41 shields together interesting.

Not to mention I-41,43,894,and US 41 signage.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Big John on April 09, 2015, 05:15:58 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on April 09, 2015, 04:47:40 PM
Really going to find the I-41/US 41 shields together interesting.

Not to mention I-41,43,894,and US 41 signage.
US 41 reassurance signs won't be installed in the Milwaukee area.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on April 09, 2015, 05:27:33 PM
Looks like the I-41 shields in the Milwaukee area could be uncovered anytime.

http://www.whby.com/index.php/News/WHBY_News/505397
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on April 09, 2015, 05:30:34 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on April 09, 2015, 04:47:40 PM
Really going to find the I-41/US 41 shields together interesting.

Not to mention I-41,43,894,and US 41 signage.

From what I understand, 'US 41' shields will be omitted on reassurance signs in most or all of Milwaukee County, this to cut down on sign clutter.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on April 09, 2015, 05:30:48 PM
Quote from: Big John on April 09, 2015, 05:15:58 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on April 09, 2015, 04:47:40 PM
Really going to find the I-41/US 41 shields together interesting.

Not to mention I-41,43,894,and US 41 signage.
US 41 reassurance signs won't be installed in the Milwaukee area.

There are some semi-covered 'alternate route' assemblies for I-41/U.S.41/45 on a few highways around town, such as I-43 and Capitol Drive from the Zoo Freeway to WIS 164. On the route itself, U.S. 41 will be sparsely signed.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: I-39 on April 09, 2015, 06:19:53 PM
Why isn't I-894 being decommissioned? It really isn't necessary anymore with I-41 going up.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: vtk on April 09, 2015, 06:23:22 PM
Quote from: adamlanfort on April 09, 2015, 06:19:53 PM
Why isn't I-894 being decommissioned? It really isn't necessary anymore with I-41 going up.

Because it's still a bypass for I-94, and to provide some EAST—WEST signage on the east—west segment that would otherwise have only a confusing wrong-way NORTH—SOUTH overlap.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on April 09, 2015, 06:24:43 PM
Quote from: adamlanfort on April 09, 2015, 06:19:53 PM
Why isn't I-894 being decommissioned? It really isn't necessary anymore with I-41 going up.

Also minimizes confusion.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on April 10, 2015, 11:11:04 AM
I laugh at how we have to discuss 894 every month or two when people discover the absurdity that is I-894 remaining.

No need for it anymore.  I-41 is now the "bypass."

Maybe it can be quietly decommissioned in a few years once folks are used to I-41.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Brandon on April 10, 2015, 11:14:59 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 10, 2015, 11:11:04 AM
I laugh at how we have to discuss 894 every month or two when people discover the absurdity that is I-894 remaining.

No need for it anymore.  I-41 is now the "bypass."

Maybe it can be quietly decommissioned in a few years once folks are used to I-41.

Hey, it gives Wisconsin a new distinction: Two Triple Interstate Concurrencies!

Makes it unique in not just having one of them (which was unique before after I-70 was moved off the PSB), but two of them!
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Henry on April 10, 2015, 12:49:15 PM
Quote from: Brandon on April 10, 2015, 11:14:59 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 10, 2015, 11:11:04 AM
I laugh at how we have to discuss 894 every month or two when people discover the absurdity that is I-894 remaining.

No need for it anymore.  I-41 is now the "bypass."

Maybe it can be quietly decommissioned in a few years once folks are used to I-41.

Hey, it gives Wisconsin a new distinction: Two Triple Interstate Concurrencies!

Makes it unique in not just having one of them (which was unique before after I-70 was moved off the PSB), but two of them!
I have a feeling it will never go away, because folks are used to calling it I-894 anyway, and will continue to long after I-41 has been established.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on April 10, 2015, 02:03:58 PM
According to one of the WISDOT Facebook pages, some signing/uncovering of I-41 shields could start as soon as May. Most of the signing will take place over the summer. On the US 41 project page, WISDOT is officially referring to the highway as I-41, effective yesterday. Thus, I-41 now truly exists.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on April 10, 2015, 02:18:42 PM
My guess is that the M'waukee locals will always refer to it as 894 just as we in the Fox Valley would have referred to 41 as "Highway 41" regardless of what number was on the pretty little shield. It'll be nice now for my non-road-loving family and friends from the southern parts of the state to visit to just tell them, TAKE 41 ALL THE WAY TO FDL...Now, if we can just get wages to increase in the Fond du Lac Area since the Interstate Designation is supposed to bring commerce...They best sign it before I leave to move to Sheboygan! (Whenever that is...)

Now, to work on Interstate Signing 441 all the way to 45 (although that would TECHNICALLY mean it should become something like 541/741/941...) And the West Bend Spur! Let the breath-holding commence..

Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on April 10, 2015, 10:00:32 PM
Quote from: Brandon on April 10, 2015, 11:14:59 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 10, 2015, 11:11:04 AM
I laugh at how we have to discuss 894 every month or two when people discover the absurdity that is I-894 remaining.

No need for it anymore.  I-41 is now the "bypass."

Maybe it can be quietly decommissioned in a few years once folks are used to I-41.

Hey, it gives Wisconsin a new distinction: Two Triple Interstate Concurrencies!

Makes it unique in not just having one of them (which was unique before after I-70 was moved off the PSB), but two of them!

AND - the *first* one with a 3DI!!!

:hyper:

:-P

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on April 13, 2015, 08:20:09 AM
^^AND, the first wrong-way concurrency in WI, if i'm not mistaken?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on April 13, 2015, 08:50:45 AM
Quote from: merrycilantro on April 13, 2015, 08:20:09 AM
^^AND, the first wrong-way concurrency in WI, if i'm not mistaken?
Of 2 or more Interstates.  Several small wrong-ways exist between US Routes and state routes all over the state.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on April 13, 2015, 09:41:56 AM
SSO, your profile picture...I've seen that! it's off of Peters turning onto Scott Street in Fond du Lac!!

Now, I wonder if Mayor Tom Barrett has the same notion of freeways as John Norquist did, who had tried to dump 894 and run 94 along 894 and extend 794 over would-be former  94...if that be the case then I would assume 894's days are numbered...but really I think it'd lack support and it's just one guy or a small group of guys/gals blowing their hot air horns.

I myself am indifferent to whether or not 894 would get the boot. Even if I lived there still, I guess I could take it or leave it. I'd focus more on the Appleton and Green Bay Area, with 441 and 172, maybe even 45 if West Bend (and company) feel the need to link to an interstate.

I was only about 11 when 39 came to be along the 51 corridor, but I wonder if the situation with I-41's Elevation is similar to 39's, in that it's like people are questioning the necessity of it and what not...all I knew was that there was a new number when I went up north!
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hobsini2 on April 13, 2015, 05:55:02 PM
I would still keep 894 just in case the northern bypass is ever built. That way, the whole thing could be 894.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on April 13, 2015, 09:26:24 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on April 13, 2015, 05:55:02 PM
I would still keep 894 just in case the northern bypass is ever built. That way, the whole thing could be 894.
Not happening in this overdeveloped world...
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: US 41 on April 13, 2015, 09:35:57 PM
Will US 41 still be signed on Appleton Ave. or will it be decommissioned / renumbered?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Big John on April 13, 2015, 09:39:09 PM
Quote from: US 41 on April 13, 2015, 09:35:57 PM
Will US 41 still be signed on Appleton Ave. or will it be decommissioned / renumbered?
It is renumbered WI 175 (extended from the north)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on April 14, 2015, 01:37:28 AM
Speaking of WI 441, a FB exchange from Monday (2015-04-12):

Michael G Koerner Are there any thoughts of applying to AASHTO for promotion of WI 441 to 'I-441' once its current round of upgrades are complete?
Like · Reply · Yesterday at 12:09am

Wisconsin US 41 Project Hi Michael, Good question! The process of US 41 becoming an Interstate began in 2005 when Congressman Petri got federal legislation enacted to designate US 41 as a future Interstate. This legislation came at the urging of local municipalities and Chambers of Commerce. There has been no similar legislation discussed for WIS 441. But we will keep you posted of any changes in the future. Thank you!
Like · 10 hrs

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on April 14, 2015, 06:30:21 AM
Ok so it DOES take an act of congress now. :banghead:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on April 14, 2015, 06:23:28 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on April 14, 2015, 01:37:28 AM
Speaking of WI 441, a FB exchange from Monday (2015-04-12):

Michael G Koerner Are there any thoughts of applying to AASHTO for promotion of WI 441 to 'I-441' once its current round of upgrades are complete?
Like · Reply · Yesterday at 12:09am

Wisconsin US 41 Project Hi Michael, Good question! The process of US 41 becoming an Interstate began in 2005 when Congressman Petri got federal legislation enacted to designate US 41 as a future Interstate. This legislation came at the urging of local municipalities and Chambers of Commerce. There has been no similar legislation discussed for WIS 441. But we will keep you posted of any changes in the future. Thank you!
Like · 10 hrs

Mike

That is *exactly* what I was saying earlier. The only reason I-41 exists was due to politicians and business owners. WisDOT didn't really see any need to "promote" US 41. The same situation exists with 441. There's no reason to slap an interstate marker on it just because you can. The local governments and community leaders are going to have to ask for it if the want it to happen - and I just don't see that occurring. There'd be no real benefit to it, since 441 really isn't a "bypass" in the traditional sense. It's not really a bypass route as much as it is an alternate route. Most people wouldn't want to choose 441 as the "through" route to Green Bay.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on April 15, 2015, 12:31:15 AM
Just gotta get Mike elected to office in Appleton/Outagamie County.
:awesomeface: :-D
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on April 15, 2015, 03:01:07 AM
Nah, just gotta leave it alone.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on April 15, 2015, 12:08:09 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on April 14, 2015, 06:23:28 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on April 14, 2015, 01:37:28 AM
Speaking of WI 441, a FB exchange from Monday (2015-04-12):

Michael G Koerner Are there any thoughts of applying to AASHTO for promotion of WI 441 to 'I-441' once its current round of upgrades are complete?
Like · Reply · Yesterday at 12:09am

Wisconsin US 41 Project Hi Michael, Good question! The process of US 41 becoming an Interstate began in 2005 when Congressman Petri got federal legislation enacted to designate US 41 as a future Interstate. This legislation came at the urging of local municipalities and Chambers of Commerce. There has been no similar legislation discussed for WIS 441. But we will keep you posted of any changes in the future. Thank you!
Like · 10 hrs

Mike

That is *exactly* what I was saying earlier. The only reason I-41 exists was due to politicians and business owners. WisDOT didn't really see any need to "promote" US 41. The same situation exists with 441. There's no reason to slap an interstate marker on it just because you can. The local governments and community leaders are going to have to ask for it if the want it to happen - and I just don't see that occurring. There'd be no real benefit to it, since 441 really isn't a "bypass" in the traditional sense. It's not really a bypass route as much as it is an alternate route. Most people wouldn't want to choose 441 as the "through" route to Green Bay.

At first I was going to ask, how is it not a bypass...but then I realized, okay, yeah it is more so an alternate route...which then would leave one in favor (should someone request it) of taking an interstate designation from the eastern/northern Terminus of 441 south and west all the way to intersect the new 45/10 segment. However, like 894 and 41 itself, everyone knows the road as 441 so regardless of what number they'd put on it....okay I can see it going either way.

And based off of the response indicated, it seems like it's only going to get a designation if someone were to pass legislature to do so as Tom Petri had for the whole 41 elevation. It does beg the question though why importance was placed on fixing the interchange around Butte des Morts.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on April 15, 2015, 01:56:46 PM
Because missing movement between EB 10 and NB 41
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Big John on April 15, 2015, 01:58:02 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on April 15, 2015, 01:56:46 PM
Because missing movement between EB 10 and NB 41
... and NB 41 to WB 10
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on April 15, 2015, 02:10:13 PM
Quote from: merrycilantro on April 15, 2015, 12:08:09 PM

At first I was going to ask, how is it not a bypass...but then I realized, okay, yeah it is more so an alternate route...which then would leave one in favor (should someone request it) of taking an interstate designation from the eastern/northern Terminus of 441 south and west all the way to intersect the new 45/10 segment. However, like 894 and 41 itself, everyone knows the road as 441 so regardless of what number they'd put on it....okay I can see it going either way.

And based off of the response indicated, it seems like it's only going to get a designation if someone were to pass legislature to do so as Tom Petri had for the whole 41 elevation. It does beg the question though why importance was placed on fixing the interchange around Butte des Morts.

Even then, that routing (while locally/regionally significant) would not be very well served with an interstate number. How many people would use that route to get from the 45/10 segment all the way to I-41 at the northern terminus? Or vice-versa? I think in some ways that would be even more confusing as it's not a "natural" through route. I still think 441 is best served as a state roadway and signed accordingly.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: NE2 on April 15, 2015, 02:15:29 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on April 15, 2015, 01:56:46 PM
Because missing movement between EB 10 and NB 41
If that was a problem for the designation of I-441, it would have been more of a problem for I-41.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on April 15, 2015, 03:14:52 PM
The only way WisDOT would want to apply to make 441 an interstate is if they needed federal dollars for it. At this point, they likely don't.

And states don't have to ram new interstates through Congress in order to get them approved, but it does help to force FHWA's hand.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on April 15, 2015, 03:48:24 PM
so this just was posted:

WI US 41 Project @WisconsinUS41  ·  32s 32 seconds ago

Tomorrow we'll have a new name! We wanted a name that accommodates our #WIS441 and #I41 project updates together. http://ow.ly/i/anFCT
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on April 15, 2015, 04:16:23 PM
Well, perhaps Hell has frozen over and we'll get an I-441. I'm guessing that's not what that's about though.  ;-)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on April 15, 2015, 05:38:05 PM
Quote from: Big John on April 15, 2015, 01:58:02 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on April 15, 2015, 01:56:46 PM
Because missing movement between EB 10 and NB 41
... and NB 41 to WB 10

Also being overwhelmed with traffic.  The US 10/WI 441 bridge to the east is operating at about 80-90K AADT, with much of that traffic using I-41 on ether side of that interchange.  The weave between the two SB I-41 'left turn' loop ramps is a bugger.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on April 15, 2015, 07:20:59 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on April 15, 2015, 02:10:13 PM
Quote from: merrycilantro on April 15, 2015, 12:08:09 PM

At first I was going to ask, how is it not a bypass...but then I realized, okay, yeah it is more so an alternate route...which then would leave one in favor (should someone request it) of taking an interstate designation from the eastern/northern Terminus of 441 south and west all the way to intersect the new 45/10 segment. However, like 894 and 41 itself, everyone knows the road as 441 so regardless of what number they'd put on it....okay I can see it going either way.

And based off of the response indicated, it seems like it's only going to get a designation if someone were to pass legislature to do so as Tom Petri had for the whole 41 elevation. It does beg the question though why importance was placed on fixing the interchange around Butte des Morts.

Even then, that routing (while locally/regionally significant) would not be very well served with an interstate number. How many people would use that route to get from the 45/10 segment all the way to I-41 at the northern terminus? Or vice-versa? I think in some ways that would be even more confusing as it's not a "natural" through route. I still think 441 is best served as a state roadway and signed accordingly.

Good Point GeekJedi. If I'm going from Fond du Lac Up North, I'm going to hop on 45 out of Oshkosh and meet up with 10 to Point. Way out of my way to go up to Appleton and then zoom west to Point. I had not considered that. And with the current setup the way it is with that new construction at 41 and 45 in Oshkosh, with the roundabout, and no free-flow traffic, there ain't gonna be no interstate designation for that probably even in my own lifetime.

...I think I missed something regarding the @WisconsinUS41 from Fox 11...

Some of my own food for thought for myself, when I-43 was commissioned from Milwaukee to Beloit (Rock Freeway), it was known as the Wisconsin 15 Freeway for a while, until I-43 just sorta took over...so who knows maybe in some years' time, 894 will drop from usage, 441 (should it perchance get renumbered) as well as 172...could be supplanted by auxiliary interstate routes...
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on April 15, 2015, 08:01:49 PM
I never say never, but yeah...it doesn't seem like there's much interest (or necessity) to promote 441 to an interstate, except for some hardcore numbering folks. On the other hand, all of this is speculation!
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on April 15, 2015, 08:17:16 PM
Then lets put in the Fictional board :awesomeface:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on April 15, 2015, 08:50:23 PM
My apologies.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on April 15, 2015, 11:44:29 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on April 15, 2015, 08:17:16 PM
Then lets put in the Fictional board :awesomeface:

I think there's a little difference between speculation regarding the numbering of a very real road and fiction.  ;-)

For example, WI-441 renumbering, or WI-29 becoming an interstate.  :poke:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on April 16, 2015, 09:44:15 AM
Quote from: merrycilantro on April 15, 2015, 07:20:59 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on April 15, 2015, 02:10:13 PM
Quote from: merrycilantro on April 15, 2015, 12:08:09 PM

At first I was going to ask, how is it not a bypass...but then I realized, okay, yeah it is more so an alternate route...which then would leave one in favor (should someone request it) of taking an interstate designation from the eastern/northern Terminus of 441 south and west all the way to intersect the new 45/10 segment. However, like 894 and 41 itself, everyone knows the road as 441 so regardless of what number they'd put on it....okay I can see it going either way.

And based off of the response indicated, it seems like it's only going to get a designation if someone were to pass legislature to do so as Tom Petri had for the whole 41 elevation. It does beg the question though why importance was placed on fixing the interchange around Butte des Morts.

Even then, that routing (while locally/regionally significant) would not be very well served with an interstate number. How many people would use that route to get from the 45/10 segment all the way to I-41 at the northern terminus? Or vice-versa? I think in some ways that would be even more confusing as it's not a "natural" through route. I still think 441 is best served as a state roadway and signed accordingly.

Good Point GeekJedi. If I'm going from Fond du Lac Up North, I'm going to hop on 45 out of Oshkosh and meet up with 10 to Point. Way out of my way to go up to Appleton and then zoom west to Point. I had not considered that. And with the current setup the way it is with that new construction at 41 and 45 in Oshkosh, with the roundabout, and no free-flow traffic, there ain't gonna be no interstate designation for that probably even in my own lifetime.

...I think I missed something regarding the @WisconsinUS41 from Fox 11...

Some of my own food for thought for myself, when I-43 was commissioned from Milwaukee to Beloit (Rock Freeway), it was known as the Wisconsin 15 Freeway for a while, until I-43 just sorta took over...so who knows maybe in some years' time, 894 will drop from usage, 441 (should it perchance get renumbered) as well as 172...could be supplanted by auxiliary interstate routes...


Similar to I-39.  At first people still called it "Highway 51," but almost everyone calls it I-39 these days.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Henry on April 16, 2015, 12:45:43 PM
It only makes sense to make WI 441 into I-441, because the only thing that needs to change is the shield. But I guess we'll see about it when those upgrades are complete.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: The Ghostbuster on April 16, 2015, 01:01:47 PM
What's wrong with keeping it state highway 441? Not that I oppose making it an Interstate.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on April 16, 2015, 01:23:56 PM
apparently the twitter handle is now:
@WIS441I41News
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on April 16, 2015, 03:39:45 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 16, 2015, 01:01:47 PM
What's wrong with keeping it state highway 441? Not that I oppose making it an Interstate.

That's what confuses me about the "it just makes sense" crowd. It really doesn't make sense. WI-441 is not a bypass, and is not a "through route" to anything. The only thing that would remotely qualify it to be an interstate highway is that it connects to I-41 in two places and is an limited-access highway. 3di's are for bypasses or spur routes, 441 is neither. What's the rush to change out the shield?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: JREwing78 on April 16, 2015, 07:35:26 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on April 16, 2015, 03:39:45 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 16, 2015, 01:01:47 PM
What's wrong with keeping it state highway 441? Not that I oppose making it an Interstate.

That's what confuses me about the "it just makes sense" crowd. It really doesn't make sense. WI-441 is not a bypass, and is not a "through route" to anything. The only thing that would remotely qualify it to be an interstate highway is that it connects to I-41 in two places and is an limited-access highway. 3di's are for bypasses or spur routes, 441 is neither. What's the rush to change out the shield?

I would think "connects to I-41 in two places" and "limited-access highway" is plenty sufficient for the Interstate branding. It works in Lansing, MI (I-496), Saginaw, MI (I-675), and Des Moines (I-235), for instance. Wisconsin clearly had a similar idea designating it Hwy 441 when it was built, as a loop of the Appleton area.

I don't get what makes a spur special and different than the loops described above. If a spur qualifies, so should a loop. And I frankly prefer the main through route to have the two-digit parent routing, as dead-brained through traffic is naturally inclined to follow it.

Take St. Louis, for example - the northern I-270 section connecting the two ends of I-70 is a near-perfect direct route for through traffic. But the extra digit implies it's some kind of spur routing. Had it carried the I-70 designation instead, through traffic would naturally be inclined to take it, instead of clogging downtown St. Louis. Ditto for I-255 v.s. I-55.

Once WisDOT brings Hwy 441 up to standards, why wouldn't they want to designate it as an Interstate? It would more clearly reinforce its relationship with I-41, and communicate that it's a limited-access highway. It seems silly to go to the expense of re-designating I-41 as such without designating Hwy 441 also.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on April 16, 2015, 10:09:32 PM
What seems silly is going through the expense of re-designating WI 441 as I-441 because "Why not?". Especially since the only people who pushed for the expense of re-designating US 41 as I-41 in the first place were some politicians and business owners.

:banghead:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hobsini2 on April 18, 2015, 12:52:11 PM
Quote from: merrycilantro on April 15, 2015, 07:20:59 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on April 15, 2015, 02:10:13 PM
Quote from: merrycilantro on April 15, 2015, 12:08:09 PM

At first I was going to ask, how is it not a bypass...but then I realized, okay, yeah it is more so an alternate route...which then would leave one in favor (should someone request it) of taking an interstate designation from the eastern/northern Terminus of 441 south and west all the way to intersect the new 45/10 segment. However, like 894 and 41 itself, everyone knows the road as 441 so regardless of what number they'd put on it....okay I can see it going either way.

And based off of the response indicated, it seems like it's only going to get a designation if someone were to pass legislature to do so as Tom Petri had for the whole 41 elevation. It does beg the question though why importance was placed on fixing the interchange around Butte des Morts.

Even then, that routing (while locally/regionally significant) would not be very well served with an interstate number. How many people would use that route to get from the 45/10 segment all the way to I-41 at the northern terminus? Or vice-versa? I think in some ways that would be even more confusing as it's not a "natural" through route. I still think 441 is best served as a state roadway and signed accordingly.

Good Point GeekJedi. If I'm going from Fond du Lac Up North, I'm going to hop on 45 out of Oshkosh and meet up with 10 to Point. Way out of my way to go up to Appleton and then zoom west to Point. I had not considered that. And with the current setup the way it is with that new construction at 41 and 45 in Oshkosh, with the roundabout, and no free-flow traffic, there ain't gonna be no interstate designation for that probably even in my own lifetime.

...I think I missed something regarding the @WisconsinUS41 from Fox 11...

Some of my own food for thought for myself, when I-43 was commissioned from Milwaukee to Beloit (Rock Freeway), it was known as the Wisconsin 15 Freeway for a while, until I-43 just sorta took over...so who knows maybe in some years' time, 894 will drop from usage, 441 (should it perchance get renumbered) as well as 172...could be supplanted by auxiliary interstate routes...

Actually, the NB 41 to NB 45 and SB 45 to SB 45 movements are free flow. Theoretically, those ramps could be enough to consider an Interstate to Interstate junction. But that being said, 45 is not going to be an Interstate anytime soon.

Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: english si on April 18, 2015, 01:46:14 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on April 16, 2015, 03:39:45 PMThat's what confuses me about the "it just makes sense" crowd. It really doesn't make sense. WI-441 is not a bypass, and is not a "through route" to anything.
There's a lot of even 3dis that make no sense for through traffic or a bypass, but instead function as routes via downtown with their 2di on the bypass.

There's more that aren't the through route, but distribute traffic around the urban area while their 2di carries through traffic (a by-pass is about traffic passing the town - if through traffic doesn't take it then it's not a bypass).

In fact its probably less than half even 3dis that would be the through route.

WI441 is a distributor for I-41 around the Fox River Cities, serving places on the south/east side of the river and linking them to I-41 north and south. If it was WI541 from I-41 exit 145 to College Avenue, an unbuilt bit, and WI341 from I-41 exit 134 to Calumet St, you seemingly would have a problem with I-541 spur and I-341 spur that end a mile apart as they would be valid interstate spurs. Instead the spurs meet, making them function a lot better and so they would need to meet your bizarre rules for what is the definition of what is a 3di.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on April 18, 2015, 09:53:46 PM
It's not my bizarre rule, but thanks for playin'. ;-)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: english si on April 19, 2015, 02:20:09 AM
Quote from: GeekJedi on April 18, 2015, 09:53:46 PMIt's not my bizarre rule, but thanks for playin'. ;-)
No one else holds to your rule that even 3dis must form a bypass. It is your rule (and yours alone) and it is bizarre.

Or can you provide a citation that WI441 would violate rules?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: skluth on April 19, 2015, 11:07:30 AM
Quote from: english si on April 19, 2015, 02:20:09 AM
Quote from: GeekJedi on April 18, 2015, 09:53:46 PMIt's not my bizarre rule, but thanks for playin'. ;-)
No one else holds to your rule that even 3dis must form a bypass. It is your rule (and yours alone) and it is bizarre.

Or can you provide a citation that WI441 would violate rules?

Even 3di's originally either bypassed or went through a city/metropolitan area and returned to an interstate, usually the same interstate. Examples of through even 3di's include 670 in KC and 279 in Pittsburgh (you can return to 79 via 376). Odd 3di's were originally spurs. These definitions seem to be less important as time goes on.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on April 19, 2015, 12:27:01 PM
Quote from: english si on April 19, 2015, 02:20:09 AM
No one else holds to your rule that even 3dis must form a bypass. It is your rule (and yours alone) and it is bizarre.


You are adorable with all that "bizarre" stuff.

While the "rule" has been less and less used, the original intent of an "even digit" 3di was to signify a "through" route (usually) around an urban area, and in many cases signifying a bypass. The "odd digit" 3di typically is used for spur routes off the parent interstate.

Since you obviously haven't been following along too closely (as evidenced by your "bizarre" remarks!) 441 is neither a "spur" nor a "bypass" or even "through route". It is a 99% local/regional road that does not serve anyone simply traveling through the area. Changing that route to an interstate would provide *zero* benefit to a traveler, as it doesn't take you to any substantial city or provide a bypass route around one.

It may walk and quack like a duck, but it isn't.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: english si on April 19, 2015, 04:47:34 PM
Quote from: skluth on April 19, 2015, 11:07:30 AMEven 3di's originally either bypassed or went through a city/metropolitan area and returned to an interstate, usually the same interstate.
That's exactly my point - "went through a city/metropolitan area" is perfect valid for an even 3di. It is only GeekJedi who thinks it needs to serve through traffic to be an interstate.

GeekJedi - how much through traffic would something like I-244 (or more extreme I-444) in Tulsa see? Or I-235 in Des Moines? I-235 in Oklahoma City? They all function like a pair of spurs off the main interstate into downtown that run end on to each other. All longer, all more urban than their parents.

441 is similar, though doesn't get as close to downtown Appleton as the other routes get to the downtowns of their area, and is more about serving Harrison, Menasha, Combined Locks, Kimberly, etc (pop over 30k and that's without the parts of Appleton it serves better, which includes parts of downtown and would be another 30k). 30k is similar to Superior, which gets an odd 3di. Why, just because the freeway loops around and returns to its parent, should this area south of the Fox River not get a 3di if it wants one?

We're not talking about I-180 in IL that serves nothing of significance. We're talking about a freeway where WISDOT are looking at widening a significant amount of it as there's a lot of traffic.

I'm not fussed whether or not 441 is an Interstate or a State Route, but your arguments against I-441 are nonsense. Sure, it's a local distributing route, rather than a through route, but so are a lot of even interstates. Sure, it doesn't uniquely serve a large urban area, but similarly-populated areas often get spurs that only serve local traffic to put them on the Interstate network - why should this area get penalised because the freeway serving it is a loop?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on April 19, 2015, 06:00:45 PM
keep it civil folks. --sso
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on April 19, 2015, 06:08:24 PM
Quote from: english si on April 19, 2015, 04:47:34 PM
why should this area get penalised because the freeway serving it is a loop?

You're missing my point.

Who exactly gets "penalized" because 441 stays signed as a state route? The only people who are in a tizzy about it are a few posters here. There has been zero demand from anyone in the area to change the shields out.

So I repeat: Why is it necessary other than "because"?

At any rate, I've beaten the subject to death. I'm sure nobody is going to convince anyone else of anything at this point. I've made my case.  :clap:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hobsini2 on April 19, 2015, 07:31:39 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on April 19, 2015, 06:08:24 PM
Quote from: english si on April 19, 2015, 04:47:34 PM
why should this area get penalised because the freeway serving it is a loop?

You're missing my point.

Who exactly gets "penalized" because 441 stays signed as a state route? The only people who are in a tizzy about it are a few posters here. There has been zero demand from anyone in the area to change the shields out.

So I repeat: Why is it necessary other than "because"?

At any rate, I've beaten the subject to death. I'm sure nobody is going to convince anyone else of anything at this point. I've made my case.  :clap:

To answer your question with a question, if 441 remains as a state highway, wouldn't federal (not state) funding be less of a priority to the feds as opposed to it being an interstate?

MGK, correct me if I am wrong but the road is in the process of being upgraded to interstate standards now. Correct?

So if it is being up to standard and is getting or will get federal funding, why not make it an interstate? Just my opinion on that.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on April 19, 2015, 08:04:37 PM
Thank you, hob. Now something like that makes total sense (the federal funding aspect). However, I don't believe there's a project to bring it up to interstate standards, just to re-do the interchange with I-41.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Big John on April 19, 2015, 08:27:57 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on April 19, 2015, 08:04:37 PM
Thank you, hob. Now something like that makes total sense (the federal funding aspect). However, I don't believe there's a project to bring it up to interstate standards, just to re-do the interchange with I-41.
The project is that interchange up to the US 10 interchange in Appleton.  Bringing it to 3 lanes each way and flatten out the tight curves.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on April 19, 2015, 09:08:38 PM
According to this, there's nothing going on east of the interchange until at least 2016:

http://www.wisconsindot.gov/projects/neregion/441/index.htm
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on April 20, 2015, 08:59:11 AM
Perhaps the most interesting part of the 441 project isn't the designation, it's that the region get its first diverging diamond interchange:

http://fox11online.com/2014/06/25/hwy-441-expansion-plan-includes-diverging-diamond/

Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on April 20, 2015, 10:54:05 AM
Although promoting WI 441 to a full interstate is not a major priority of WisDOT, their S.O.P. when building something like this is to do it, as much as possible, to interstate design standards.  This includes non-freeway rural 'expressways' such as WI 29 or US 18/151.  Yes, the current work on US 10/WI 441, including the six-laning east to just east of Oneida St, will be at full interstate standards.

I'm thinking that the part of WI 441 where it crosses the Fox River along the Appleton/Kimberly border is below standards for left shoulder width.  But that is a deficiency that has been 'grandfathered' elsewhere.  We'll have to see.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hobsini2 on April 20, 2015, 01:06:33 PM
So is 441 already in most places up to interstate standards Mike? It's been a long time since I was on 441 but I think it was already east of US 10/Wis 47.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on April 20, 2015, 02:34:35 PM
Quote from: Fox 11 News on April 20, 2015, 08:59:11 AM
Perhaps the most interesting part of the 441 project isn't the designation, it's that the region get its first diverging diamond interchange:

http://fox11online.com/2014/06/25/hwy-441-expansion-plan-includes-diverging-diamond/



Oooh. I missed that the first time around. That's pretty cool!
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: The Ghostbuster on April 20, 2015, 05:16:39 PM
Personally, I think the Interstate 41 designation should continue to the Abrams split.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on April 20, 2015, 08:57:50 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on April 20, 2015, 05:16:39 PM
Personally, I think the Interstate 41 designation should continue to the Abrams split.
No.

The traffic up there wouldn't warrant it - nor does it terminate at a major highway or city.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on April 20, 2015, 10:10:59 PM
Well, even though traffic on the US 41/141 freeway between I-43 (Howard interchange) and the Abrams interchange (US 41/141 split) is certainly heavy enough to do most rural interstates proud (it's a lot busier than most people would realize just from studying maps of the area and may warrant upgrading to six lanes within my lifetime), I do agree that it does not warrant promotion to a full interstate - unless and until [fictional-fantasy highway musing]MDOT builds such a highway to supplant US 41 and US 2 between Menominee and I-75 at Saint Ignace[/fictional-fantasy highway musing].

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hobsini2 on April 21, 2015, 11:32:24 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on April 20, 2015, 10:10:59 PM
Well, even though traffic on the US 41/141 freeway between I-43 (Howard interchange) and the Abrams interchange (US 41/141 split) is certainly heavy enough to do most rural interstates proud (it's a lot busier than most people would realize just from studying maps of the area and may warrant upgrading to six lanes within my lifetime), I do agree that it does not warrant promotion to a full interstate - unless and until [fictional-fantasy highway musing]MDOT builds such a highway to supplant US 41 and US 2 between Menominee and I-75 at Saint Ignace[/fictional-fantasy highway musing].

Mike

I like that idea of bending a divided highway toward Sault Ste Marie from Green Bay. hmm.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on April 21, 2015, 12:17:36 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on April 20, 2015, 08:57:50 PM
nor does it terminate at a major highway or city.

The 41-141 split strikes me as quite a major highway junction.

It makes sense to me to have I-41 end at Abrams, have US 141 start at Abrams and have US 41 "come out of Minnesota-style hiding" at Abrams.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on April 21, 2015, 01:38:04 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 21, 2015, 12:17:36 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on April 20, 2015, 08:57:50 PM
nor does it terminate at a major highway or city.

The 41-141 split strikes me as quite a major highway junction.

It makes sense to me to have I-41 end at Abrams, have US 141 start at Abrams and have US 41 "come out of Minnesota-style hiding" at Abrams.
Won't fly at FHWA.  Their idea of a major junction is an east-west route point.  But hell if they can do it with I-41 down to IL why not? :bigass:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Brandon on April 21, 2015, 02:52:20 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on April 21, 2015, 01:38:04 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on April 21, 2015, 12:17:36 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on April 20, 2015, 08:57:50 PM
nor does it terminate at a major highway or city.

The 41-141 split strikes me as quite a major highway junction.

It makes sense to me to have I-41 end at Abrams, have US 141 start at Abrams and have US 41 "come out of Minnesota-style hiding" at Abrams.
Won't fly at FHWA.  Their idea of a major junction is an east-west route point.  But hell if they can do it with I-41 down to IL why not? :bigass:

Shit, name me the major east-west route point for the southern end of I-41?  And no, Russell Road does not count.

As far as I've seen, FHWA is inconsistent with respect to the numbering of interstates (see I-355 and I-155 in Illinois versus MO-370 as an example), and for the ending of interstates.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on April 22, 2015, 07:52:09 PM
The ball is in IDOT's court now, in terms of stretching 41 down into Chicagoland. And with a "desire to have the most interstates", or whatever it is, you'd *think* they'd actually do it, especially since they refused to extend us (Wisconsin) the olive branch that would have been I-55. Could be doable, from a sheer Google Maps Aerial View standpoint...I don't care how they do it, but they could if they wanted to (provided the funding were there). I kinda have to laugh at how IDOT wouldn't give us I-55, yet we gave them .9 miles of I-41...I don't know whether to take that as an in-your-face to IDOT, or as a peace offering of sorts...or what...

I'd actually like to know the logic behind IDOT's refusal to accommodate 55, yet acceptance of 41 "dipping its wick", as it were, in the precious Land of Lincoln...Like, was it strictly because of that "number of interstates" thing (tongue in cheek thinking "who's got the bigger..."), or something else. Something like maybe the following:

WisDOT - extend 55 up 94 and allow it to terminate in Green Bay, er no?
IDOT - NO. (wish i had a pic of that meme)
WisDOT - Fine then. We'll do our own thing... Rest of Wisconsin, take your pick, 47, 41, 643 or 594??
Rest of WI - Are you freakin kidding me?? 41 is 41, whether you have a different number on it. And we don't need any more Intrastates...41 or nothing.
WisDOT to IDOT - OK OK How about this? How's about we call it 41, break the grid, and the rules about numbering the same number as a state, AND give you a sliver of an interstate you can call your very own (Wisconsin's version maybe of Oceanfront Property in Arizona)
IDOT - You know you cheeseheads never quit!! Fine, get them off our back and sign 9 tenths of a mile in IL as this ridiculous 41 multiplex they want so bad...who knows, maybe we'll use it in the future....or maybe...IDEA...WE'LL HAVE ANOTHER INTERSTATE TO ADD TO THE LIST! All right WisDOT, you got your wish. Now it shall truly be an INTERstate.
(AFTER THE CALL...) Maybe now they'll shut up about that Chicago to Madison connection...

Perhaps I've had too much coffee today, I apologize for my dry sense of humor.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: bulldog1979 on April 23, 2015, 12:28:07 AM
Someone mentioned at the Madison meet this past weekend that WisDOT included the Illinois section of I-41 in their signing plans. The commenter said that IDOT is getting I-41 whether they wanted it or not because WisDOT is paying to sign it in Illinois.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on April 23, 2015, 08:23:42 AM
LOVE IT!!! So they won't give us I-55? Fine, we'll shove I-41 down their throats!!
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on April 23, 2015, 01:49:22 PM
Quote from: bulldog1979 on April 23, 2015, 12:28:07 AM
Someone mentioned at the Madison meet this past weekend that WisDOT included the Illinois section of I-41 in their signing plans. The commenter said that IDOT is getting I-41 whether they wanted it or not because WisDOT is paying to sign it in Illinois.
I think WisDOT handled the widing of the road into Illinois where ISHTA takes over as well.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Brandon on April 23, 2015, 02:51:00 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on April 23, 2015, 01:49:22 PM
Quote from: bulldog1979 on April 23, 2015, 12:28:07 AM
Someone mentioned at the Madison meet this past weekend that WisDOT included the Illinois section of I-41 in their signing plans. The commenter said that IDOT is getting I-41 whether they wanted it or not because WisDOT is paying to sign it in Illinois.
I think WisDOT handled the widing of the road into Illinois where ISHTA takes over as well.

It appears as if the widening to the border was carried out by ISTHA.  Their style of signage and mileposts are all over the place.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on April 23, 2015, 07:23:46 PM
Quote from: Brandon on April 23, 2015, 02:51:00 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on April 23, 2015, 01:49:22 PM
Quote from: bulldog1979 on April 23, 2015, 12:28:07 AM
Someone mentioned at the Madison meet this past weekend that WisDOT included the Illinois section of I-41 in their signing plans. The commenter said that IDOT is getting I-41 whether they wanted it or not because WisDOT is paying to sign it in Illinois.
I think WisDOT handled the widing of the road into Illinois where ISHTA takes over as well.

It appears as if the widening to the border was carried out by ISTHA.  Their style of signage and mileposts are all over the place.
Well I knew that IDiOT didn't do it that's for sure :bigass: :awesomeface:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on April 23, 2015, 11:09:04 PM
Quote from: bulldog1979 on April 23, 2015, 12:28:07 AM
Someone mentioned at the Madison meet this past weekend that WisDOT included the Illinois section of I-41 in their signing plans. The commenter said that IDOT is getting I-41 whether they wanted it or not because WisDOT is paying to sign it in Illinois.

That was me. More info here:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4899.msg2054510#msg2054510
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mvak36 on April 24, 2015, 12:13:47 AM
Speaking of that signing contract, when do they announce who won the bids for the two projects? Just curious.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Henry on April 24, 2015, 12:55:51 PM
Quote from: merrycilantro on April 22, 2015, 07:52:09 PM
The ball is in IDOT's court now, in terms of stretching 41 down into Chicagoland. And with a "desire to have the most interstates", or whatever it is, you'd *think* they'd actually do it, especially since they refused to extend us (Wisconsin) the olive branch that would have been I-55. Could be doable, from a sheer Google Maps Aerial View standpoint...I don't care how they do it, but they could if they wanted to (provided the funding were there). I kinda have to laugh at how IDOT wouldn't give us I-55, yet we gave them .9 miles of I-41...I don't know whether to take that as an in-your-face to IDOT, or as a peace offering of sorts...or what...

I'd actually like to know the logic behind IDOT's refusal to accommodate 55, yet acceptance of 41 "dipping its wick", as it were, in the precious Land of Lincoln...Like, was it strictly because of that "number of interstates" thing (tongue in cheek thinking "who's got the bigger..."), or something else. Something like maybe the following:

WisDOT - extend 55 up 94 and allow it to terminate in Green Bay, er no?
IDOT - NO. (wish i had a pic of that meme)
WisDOT - Fine then. We'll do our own thing... Rest of Wisconsin, take your pick, 47, 41, 643 or 594??
Rest of WI - Are you freakin kidding me?? 41 is 41, whether you have a different number on it. And we don't need any more Intrastates...41 or nothing.
WisDOT to IDOT - OK OK How about this? How's about we call it 41, break the grid, and the rules about numbering the same number as a state, AND give you a sliver of an interstate you can call your very own (Wisconsin's version maybe of Oceanfront Property in Arizona)
IDOT - You know you cheeseheads never quit!! Fine, get them off our back and sign 9 tenths of a mile in IL as this ridiculous 41 multiplex they want so bad...who knows, maybe we'll use it in the future....or maybe...IDEA...WE'LL HAVE ANOTHER INTERSTATE TO ADD TO THE LIST! All right WisDOT, you got your wish. Now it shall truly be an INTERstate.
(AFTER THE CALL...) Maybe now they'll shut up about that Chicago to Madison connection...

Perhaps I've had too much coffee today, I apologize for my dry sense of humor.
No, that was a very good laugh! Maybe this will open the door to extending I-41 deeper into Chicagoland, along either I-294 or the Dan Ryan, but we'll see. For now, though, it's not a bad compromise, seeing that WI wouldn't want another Intrastate to complement I-43, and hasn't IL had enough Interstates already?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Milwaukee, WY on April 27, 2015, 02:47:09 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on April 23, 2015, 07:23:46 PM
Quote from: Brandon on April 23, 2015, 02:51:00 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on April 23, 2015, 01:49:22 PM
Quote from: bulldog1979 on April 23, 2015, 12:28:07 AM
Someone mentioned at the Madison meet this past weekend that WisDOT included the Illinois section of I-41 in their signing plans. The commenter said that IDOT is getting I-41 whether they wanted it or not because WisDOT is paying to sign it in Illinois.
I think WisDOT handled the widing of the road into Illinois where ISHTA takes over as well.

It appears as if the widening to the border was carried out by ISTHA.  Their style of signage and mileposts are all over the place.
Well I knew that IDiOT didn't do it that's for sure :bigass: :awesomeface:

Well, WisDOT did pay for the widening. They simply used the ISTHA standards for the signage, lane markings and bridgework.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Brandon on April 27, 2015, 04:21:05 PM
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on April 27, 2015, 02:47:09 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on April 23, 2015, 07:23:46 PM
Quote from: Brandon on April 23, 2015, 02:51:00 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on April 23, 2015, 01:49:22 PM
Quote from: bulldog1979 on April 23, 2015, 12:28:07 AM
Someone mentioned at the Madison meet this past weekend that WisDOT included the Illinois section of I-41 in their signing plans. The commenter said that IDOT is getting I-41 whether they wanted it or not because WisDOT is paying to sign it in Illinois.
I think WisDOT handled the widing of the road into Illinois where ISHTA takes over as well.

It appears as if the widening to the border was carried out by ISTHA.  Their style of signage and mileposts are all over the place.
Well I knew that IDiOT didn't do it that's for sure :bigass: :awesomeface:

Well, WisDOT did pay for the widening. They simply used the ISTHA standards for the signage, lane markings and bridgework.

I'm not so sure about that.  ISTHA was widening the Tri-State Tollway at the same time, and just prior to WisDOT widening their most southerly section of I-94.  I-90 between the state line and Exit 3 (Rockton Road) is similar.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on April 27, 2015, 08:37:41 PM
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.9102515,-88.8190139,9z

Google Maps has I-41, though not marked correctly (only between the "Park Place" interchange and I-43 in GB) and US-41 is not marked correctly in Mil-town or along I-94.

MapQuest Open has it all marked correctly.

Raw OSM isn't caught up yet.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Milwaukee, WY on April 28, 2015, 12:25:45 AM
Quote from: Brandon on April 27, 2015, 04:21:05 PM
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on April 27, 2015, 02:47:09 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on April 23, 2015, 07:23:46 PM
Quote from: Brandon on April 23, 2015, 02:51:00 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on April 23, 2015, 01:49:22 PM
Quote from: bulldog1979 on April 23, 2015, 12:28:07 AM
Someone mentioned at the Madison meet this past weekend that WisDOT included the Illinois section of I-41 in their signing plans. The commenter said that IDOT is getting I-41 whether they wanted it or not because WisDOT is paying to sign it in Illinois.
I think WisDOT handled the widing of the road into Illinois where ISHTA takes over as well.

It appears as if the widening to the border was carried out by ISTHA.  Their style of signage and mileposts are all over the place.
Well I knew that IDiOT didn't do it that's for sure :bigass: :awesomeface:

Well, WisDOT did pay for the widening. They simply used the ISTHA standards for the signage, lane markings and bridgework.

I'm not so sure about that.  ISTHA was widening the Tri-State Tollway at the same time, and just prior to WisDOT widening their most southerly section of I-94.  I-90 between the state line and Exit 3 (Rockton Road) is similar.

Okay. I stand corrected. The reconstruction within Illinois between Russell Road and the state line was actually done by IDOT. It was included as part of the widening project in Wisconsin though, and it was done in coordination with WisDOT.

http://www.kenoshanews.com/news/road_to_reconstruction_463121817.html (http://www.kenoshanews.com/news/road_to_reconstruction_463121817.html)

Interesting, though, as the standards that were used are clearly ISTHA (lane markings are the giveaway)...
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: vtk on April 28, 2015, 04:26:30 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on April 27, 2015, 08:37:41 PM
MapQuest Open has it all marked correctly.

Raw OSM isn't caught up yet.

Raw OSM certainly is caught up, or MQ Open wouldn't have it; the latter is derived from the former.  I think you meant to say that the rendering for zoom levels up to 12 on openstreetmap.org is not yet caught up.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: ChiMilNet on April 28, 2015, 04:38:41 PM
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on April 28, 2015, 12:25:45 AM
Quote from: Brandon on April 27, 2015, 04:21:05 PM
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on April 27, 2015, 02:47:09 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on April 23, 2015, 07:23:46 PM
Quote from: Brandon on April 23, 2015, 02:51:00 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on April 23, 2015, 01:49:22 PM
Quote from: bulldog1979 on April 23, 2015, 12:28:07 AM
Someone mentioned at the Madison meet this past weekend that WisDOT included the Illinois section of I-41 in their signing plans. The commenter said that IDOT is getting I-41 whether they wanted it or not because WisDOT is paying to sign it in Illinois.
I think WisDOT handled the widing of the road into Illinois where ISHTA takes over as well.

It appears as if the widening to the border was carried out by ISTHA.  Their style of signage and mileposts are all over the place.
Well I knew that IDiOT didn't do it that's for sure :bigass: :awesomeface:

Well, WisDOT did pay for the widening. They simply used the ISTHA standards for the signage, lane markings and bridgework.

I'm not so sure about that.  ISTHA was widening the Tri-State Tollway at the same time, and just prior to WisDOT widening their most southerly section of I-94.  I-90 between the state line and Exit 3 (Rockton Road) is similar.

Okay. I stand corrected. The reconstruction within Illinois between Russell Road and the state line was actually done by IDOT. It was included as part of the widening project in Wisconsin though, and it was done in coordination with WisDOT.

http://www.kenoshanews.com/news/road_to_reconstruction_463121817.html (http://www.kenoshanews.com/news/road_to_reconstruction_463121817.html)

Interesting, though, as the standards that were used are clearly ISTHA (lane markings are the giveaway)...

One dead giveaway, though, that it is IDOT and not ISTHA is the lighting (i.e. use of davit style poles, which only IDOT uses). That is clearly an IDOT standard. The lane markings have a hint of ISTHA to them, but they are clearly done with IDOT standards, (i.e. the width of the stripes and placement of the reflectors), and not to mention the use of concrete on the shoulders (ISTHA almost always uses asphalt shoulders).
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: roadman65 on May 17, 2015, 04:34:54 PM
Is I-894 going to remain?  I assume that I-41 will be concurrent with it all, being it cannot be on the surface streets that US 41 uses south of its concurrency with US 45 and north of its split with I-94.

I
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Big John on May 17, 2015, 04:42:11 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on May 17, 2015, 04:34:54 PM
Is I-894 going to remain?  I assume that I-41 will be concurrent with it all, being it cannot be on the surface streets that US 41 uses south of its concurrency with US 45 and north of its split with I-94.

I
Yes, I-894 will remain even though all of it is concurrent with I-41.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: roadman65 on May 17, 2015, 05:04:13 PM
That means a second three way for the state.  First I-39, I-90, and I-94 and now a I-41, I-43, and I-894 with one route being totally concurrent, and the other two wrong way.

Interesting, scenario this creates not to mention two meetings of 2 two digits in one city other than I-10 and I-17 in Phoenix.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: The Ghostbuster on May 18, 2015, 04:05:14 PM
Wisconsin is now the only state with three Interstates co-designated with one another. Interstates 55/64/70 used to be co-designated before Interstate 70 was rerouted.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on May 18, 2015, 11:06:29 PM
Per the Zoo Interchange Facebook page, I-41 signing will begin in June.

Oh, and the Bluemound Rd (US 18 ) bridge over the Zoo Freeway is now open. Wisconsin Ave, just to the north, is being closed and ripped up.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: roadman65 on May 19, 2015, 12:01:49 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on May 18, 2015, 04:05:14 PM
Wisconsin is now the only state with three Interstates co-designated with one another. Interstates 55/64/70 used to be co-designated before Interstate 70 was rerouted.
Until I-69 is officially on the Indy Beltway to complete the gap from Bloomington to Indy.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hobsini2 on May 20, 2015, 02:35:11 PM
I was just on 41/45 in Milwaukee on Sunday. If you notice, one the construction ahead signs for the Zoo Interchange, you can see an oranged out space over a blue interstate shield. It's coming very very soon boys and girls.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: The Ghostbuster on May 20, 2015, 04:32:17 PM
The sooner the better. I'm really excited about my state's newest Interstate.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Henry on May 22, 2015, 12:58:22 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on May 19, 2015, 12:01:49 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on May 18, 2015, 04:05:14 PM
Wisconsin is now the only state with three Interstates co-designated with one another. Interstates 55/64/70 used to be co-designated before Interstate 70 was rerouted.
Until I-69 is officially on the Indy Beltway to complete the gap from Bloomington to Indy.
WI already has that with 39/90/94.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on May 26, 2015, 07:01:23 PM
Over the weekend, I saw the newly rebuilt interchange at WI 144 in Slinger.  That was the last of the super-old pre-freeway interchanges on the corridor, if I'm correct.

Crews were starting in on cable barrier installation in Dodge County.  The lane closure sure was slowing things down SB today.  People need to be told to zipper merge in that situation.

Lastly, it was my first time over the Butte des Morts causeway since it was fully opened.  Probably the first time in over a decade I've been able to sail through there.  Super nice to see that bottleneck gone.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hobsini2 on May 26, 2015, 08:43:03 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 26, 2015, 07:01:23 PM
Over the weekend, I saw the newly rebuilt interchange at WI 144 in Slinger.  That was the last of the super-old pre-freeway interchanges on the corridor, if I'm correct.

Crews were starting in on cable barrier installation in Dodge County.  The lane closure sure was slowing things down SB today.  People need to be told to zipper merge in that situation.

Lastly, it was my first time over the Butte des Morts causeway since it was fully opened.  Probably the first time in over a decade I've been able to sail through there.  Super nice to see that bottleneck gone.
My only issue with the Butte des Mortes Causeway on 41 is that the side walls are so high that you no longer can see the beautiful waterway below. I'm guessing though that had to be done to get counted toward interstate standards.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Big John on May 28, 2015, 05:48:31 PM
WisDOT reveals a I-41 sign. http://fox11online.com/2015/05/28/i-41-signs-revealed/

Hope that prototype typeface is just for that as just looks odd.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Zeffy on May 28, 2015, 05:55:42 PM
Quote from: Big John on May 28, 2015, 05:48:31 PM
WisDOT reveals a I-41 sign. http://fox11online.com/2015/05/28/i-41-signs-revealed/

Hope that prototype typeface is just for that as just looks odd.

That looks like Series E or EM numerals when it should be D.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: DaBigE on May 28, 2015, 07:16:48 PM
I'm curious what number is underneath, as the "41" looks to be a sloppily-cut patch (0:47 into the footage confirms it being a patch).
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on May 28, 2015, 08:07:17 PM
I think that's just for ceremony. I've seen a few of the covered I-41 signs around the Milwaukee area, and they look normal. They should have just shown one of those, but I doubt there's a single roadgeek in that entire crowd.

The signs should look more like this:

http://www.wisn.com/image/view/-/30241782/medRes/1/-/maxh/460/maxw/620/-/ac6gyl/-/I-41-highway-jpg.jpg
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on May 28, 2015, 08:18:53 PM
The signs start going up in Brown County (Green Bay) next week, then crews will start at the south end near the Illinois state line and work their way north.

http://wbay.com/2015/05/28/dignitaries-cheer-interstate-41/
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on May 29, 2015, 12:42:43 AM
Quote from: hobsini2 on May 26, 2015, 08:43:03 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 26, 2015, 07:01:23 PM
Over the weekend, I saw the newly rebuilt interchange at WI 144 in Slinger.  That was the last of the super-old pre-freeway interchanges on the corridor, if I'm correct.

Crews were starting in on cable barrier installation in Dodge County.  The lane closure sure was slowing things down SB today.  People need to be told to zipper merge in that situation.

Lastly, it was my first time over the Butte des Morts causeway since it was fully opened.  Probably the first time in over a decade I've been able to sail through there.  Super nice to see that bottleneck gone.
My only issue with the Butte des Mortes Causeway on 41 is that the side walls are so high that you no longer can see the beautiful waterway below. I'm guessing though that had to be done to get counted toward interstate standards.

A recreational trail was built along the I-41 Northbound lanes which is why there's a high concrete barrier wall.  On Southbound I-41 there is mostly cable guard across the causeway except for the bridge approaches and bridge sections.  It's very easy to see the water traveling southbound.   
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: The Ghostbuster on May 29, 2015, 04:11:49 PM
I have a feeling Interstate 41 may be the last Interstate ever designated in Wisconsin.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Roadguy on May 30, 2015, 10:23:50 AM
Quote from: peterj920 on May 29, 2015, 12:42:43 AM
A recreational trail was built along the I-41 Northbound lanes which is why there's a high concrete barrier wall.  On Southbound I-41 there is mostly cable guard across the causeway except for the bridge approaches and bridge sections.  It's very easy to see the water traveling southbound.   

The cable guard would had been barrier wall as well but due to drifting snow concerns with winds across the lake they opted for the cable instead.  Cable guard is not ideal compared to barrier due to the maintenance that comes with it (although it is better than nothing and way cheaper than concrete barrier which is why it is used in so many medians).  The concrete barrier when it blocks the wind, it's just enough to deposit the snow on the roadway whereas the cable guard lets it blow through.  Since over a majority of the time the winds come from the west, having barrier on the outside edge of the NB roadway (east side of the causeway) only means snow gets deposited on the trail.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on May 30, 2015, 12:31:08 PM
Quote from: Roadguy on May 30, 2015, 10:23:50 AM
Quote from: peterj920 on May 29, 2015, 12:42:43 AM
A recreational trail was built along the I-41 Northbound lanes which is why there's a high concrete barrier wall.  On Southbound I-41 there is mostly cable guard across the causeway except for the bridge approaches and bridge sections.  It's very easy to see the water traveling southbound.   

The cable guard would had been barrier wall as well but due to drifting snow concerns with winds across the lake they opted for the cable instead.  Cable guard is not ideal compared to barrier due to the maintenance that comes with it (although it is better than nothing and way cheaper than concrete barrier which is why it is used in so many medians).  The concrete barrier when it blocks the wind, it's just enough to deposit the snow on the roadway whereas the cable guard lets it blow through.  Since over a majority of the time the winds come from the west, having barrier on the outside edge of the NB roadway (east side of the causeway) only means snow gets deposited on the trail.

WisDOT's original planning for the recent upgrade was to replace the earth fill on the 'Causeway' with a shore-to-shore bridge (snow would blow harmlessly underneath), but was rejected later on, likely due to cost.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on May 30, 2015, 12:47:43 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on May 30, 2015, 12:31:08 PM
WisDOT's original planning for the recent upgrade was to replace the earth fill on the 'Causeway' with a shore-to-shore bridge (snow would blow harmlessly underneath), but was rejected later on, likely due to cost.

Too bad, because that would've done wonders for the ecology of Lake Butte des Mortes.  The earthen causeway is a barrier to the circulation of water in the lake and has contributed to the growth of weeds.

[/quote]
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on May 29, 2015, 04:11:49 PM
I have a feeling Interstate 41 may be the last Interstate ever designated in Wisconsin.

Never say never. :)
There are 4 quality urban 3di candidates that could be signed today.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on May 30, 2015, 01:44:21 PM
I-41 overhead signs were installed on WIS 172 at the I-41 interchange overnight, the signing is beginning.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mrose on May 30, 2015, 04:24:27 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on May 29, 2015, 04:11:49 PM
I have a feeling Interstate 41 may be the last Interstate ever designated in Wisconsin.

Apart from 3dis and extensions, probably. I'd expect 172 to be done first, since it now connects one interstate to another.

Maybe 29 when we are all REALLY old, but I don't want to get into fictional territory.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on May 31, 2015, 12:22:00 AM
Quote from: peterj920 on May 30, 2015, 01:44:21 PM
I-41 overhead signs were installed on WIS 172 at the I-41 interchange overnight, the signing is beginning.

And they are of the correct font, too, I hope.

:cool:

:cheers:

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on May 31, 2015, 01:17:05 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 30, 2015, 12:47:43 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on May 30, 2015, 12:31:08 PM
WisDOT's original planning for the recent upgrade was to replace the earth fill on the 'Causeway' with a shore-to-shore bridge (snow would blow harmlessly underneath), but was rejected later on, likely due to cost.

Too bad, because that would've done wonders for the ecology of Lake Butte des Mortes.  The earthen causeway is a barrier to the circulation of water in the lake and has contributed to the growth of weeds.

It's not a 'natural' lake anyways, not more than 'linked' Winnebago is - their water level is controlled by the dams in Menasha and Neenah.  Before those dams, the area was very marshy, and 'Winnebago' is very aptly named - 'Winnebago' is 'Land of stinking water' in the aboriginal Menominee language.

Quote from: triplemultiplex on May 30, 2015, 12:47:43 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on May 29, 2015, 04:11:49 PM
I have a feeling Interstate 41 may be the last Interstate ever designated in Wisconsin.

Never say never. :)
There are 4 quality urban 3di candidates that could be signed today.

I can think of several, too, WI 441, the US 45 West Bend Spur, WI 30, WI 172, WI 119, etc.

:nod:

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on May 31, 2015, 01:06:17 PM
If any of you are around the south end (state line, Kenosha, etc.), keep an eye out for the signing crews. They will start signing down there anytime, and work their way north. Report back, and post pics.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on May 31, 2015, 03:52:05 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on May 31, 2015, 01:06:17 PM
If any of you are around the south end (state line, Kenosha, etc.), keep an eye out for the signing crews. They will start signing down there anytime, and work their way north. Report back, and post pics.

I already submitted a pic of a sign installed at the Wis 172 interchange on Friday, and that is the only sign posted now.  Tomorrow, the sign crews are going to start at the north end and I will take pictures once they're installed at the north end.  Brown County is going to be the first to be signed, then the crew will start at the south end and work north.  ---
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Mrt90 on June 01, 2015, 02:40:59 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on May 31, 2015, 01:06:17 PM
If any of you are around the south end (state line, Kenosha, etc.), keep an eye out for the signing crews. They will start signing down there anytime, and work their way north. Report back, and post pics.
I live in Kenosha and work in Lake County, IL and I take I-94/US41 every day.  I will watch for the new signs. 

The I-94/US41/Russell Road area was redone last year (they really messed up the northbound merge/Russell exit) and they put up all new signs with US41 logos that now need to be replaced, both on the highway and on Russell Road.  I guess they had no choice but it seems like a waste.  I don't think they can just cover the US41 logos with I41 logos, can they?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hobsini2 on June 01, 2015, 06:10:15 PM
Sure they can. It would not be completely out of the ordinary.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: DaBigE on June 01, 2015, 09:58:40 PM
In some cases, the shields are just riveted onto the sign panel. So they cut the old rivets, and pop a new shield in its place.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mikeov1985 on June 04, 2015, 10:27:12 AM
I noticed I-41 reassurance markers around Oshkosh earlier this week.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on June 04, 2015, 02:30:30 PM
Quote from: mikeov1985 on June 04, 2015, 10:27:12 AM
I noticed I-41 reassurance markers around Oshkosh earlier this week.

I did too while driving around on Tuesday, from the north end of the highway at I-43 as far south as WI 21 in Oshkosh, most southbound.  Northbound, they were at all interchange from Outagamie County 'J' in Kaukauna to the north end, plus a couple by the causeway in Oshkosh.  At that time, I was expecting all of the reassurance signs north of WI 26 to be in by this typing.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on June 04, 2015, 05:42:15 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on June 04, 2015, 02:30:30 PM
Quote from: mikeov1985 on June 04, 2015, 10:27:12 AM
I noticed I-41 reassurance markers around Oshkosh earlier this week.

I did too while driving around on Tuesday, from the north end of the highway at I-43 as far south as WI 21 in Oshkosh, most southbound.  Northbound, they were at all interchange from Outagamie County 'J' in Kaukauna to the north end, plus a couple by the causeway in Oshkosh.  At that time, I was expecting all of the reassurance signs north of WI 26 to be in by this typing.

Mike

Looks like they started at the Cty J interchange, went north to Green Bay, then signed reassurance shields southbound.  The only overhead signs I see are at the WIS 172 interchange.  Would be great to know what the signing plan is. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on June 05, 2015, 04:29:31 AM
The pathway along I-41 on the recently rebuilt Lake Butte des Morts causeway in Oshkosh, WI has been designated a National Recreational Trail.

http://fox11online.com/2015/06/04/oshkosh-trail-added-to-national-system/

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: The Ghostbuster on June 05, 2015, 04:49:39 PM
With the Interstate 41 signs going up, are the US 41 sign markers disappearing as well?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on June 05, 2015, 04:59:13 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on June 05, 2015, 04:49:39 PM
With the Interstate 41 signs going up, are the US 41 sign markers disappearing as well?

They're disappearing everywhere except on mainline reassurance markers outside of the central Milwaukee metro area.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: merrycilantro on June 07, 2015, 05:18:35 PM
I don't have a picture but yesterday while driving I-41 from Winnebago street in North Fond du Lac to Military Rd, I 41 signs made their debuts...however they stand right beside the old US 41 signs...it almost looks like they are supposed to be side by side like that...it almost makes one look at the signs and go "What's the point?"
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mikeov1985 on June 07, 2015, 08:43:49 PM
Quote from: mikeov1985 on June 04, 2015, 10:27:12 AM
I noticed I-41 reassurance markers around Oshkosh earlier this week.

Here's one of the reassurance markers in Oshkosh.
https://flic.kr/p/u87TN2
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Avalanchez71 on June 08, 2015, 05:48:00 PM
How does one follow US 41 in WI? 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on June 08, 2015, 06:48:30 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on June 08, 2015, 05:48:00 PM
How does one follow US 41 in WI?

Follow Interstate 41, US 41 is cosigned with I-41 on reassurance markers.  If you feel adventurous and want to follow the old road, can take WIS 175 between Milwaukee and Fond Du Lac, that is the old route of US 41.  On the north end of Green Bay, I-41 ends but US 41 continues as a freeway for about 15 miles north until a system interchange at US 141, then it becomes an expressway with freeway bypasses of Oconto and Peshtigo.  About 5 miles north of Peshtigo, US 41 enters the City of Marinette, and that is the only part of US 41 in Wisconsin that is not a freeway or expressway.  Then there's the bridge across the Menominee River into Michigan into the City of Menominee, where US 41 enters Michigan, and you can continue up to Copper Harbor where it ends. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on June 08, 2015, 10:59:07 PM
It also uses the 'logical' routing through Milwaukee County - (S to N) I-94/US 41 -> I-43/894 -> I-894/US 45 -> US 45 -> US 41/45.

Also, for following US 41 'old' routings north of about Oshkosh, US 41 and its predecessor 'WI 15' followed multitudes of varying routings, with reroutes on various segments happening with amazing frequency and regularity.  Besides the Oconto and Peshtigo bypasses, the most recent major US 41 reroute north of Oshkosh was when the freeway part through Ashwaubenon opened in 1974, taking the highway off of Ashland and Lombardi Avenues (right past Lambeau Field).

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: I94RoadRunner on June 08, 2015, 11:49:53 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on May 29, 2015, 04:11:49 PM
I have a feeling Interstate 41 may be the last Interstate ever designated in Wisconsin.
WisDOT wants to upgrade WI 29 to an interstate. Long ways off from reality and not really necessary IMHO, however it is an active plan.

I also would not be surprised if US 151 between Madison and Fond du Lac is submitted to AASHTO to become a 3di some day as a Milwaukee bypass for traffic between Madison and Green Bay. Plans are in the works to convert the entire stretch to a full freeway, so who knows .....?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on June 09, 2015, 07:51:02 AM
Quote from: mikeov1985 on June 07, 2015, 08:43:49 PM
Quote from: mikeov1985 on June 04, 2015, 10:27:12 AM
I noticed I-41 reassurance markers around Oshkosh earlier this week.

Here's one of the reassurance markers in Oshkosh.
https://flic.kr/p/u87TN2

Almost seems like the signing crews are working their way south from Green Bay to the Illinois border. Are there signs up around Appleton yet?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on June 09, 2015, 07:55:31 AM
Quote from: peterj920 on June 08, 2015, 06:48:30 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on June 08, 2015, 05:48:00 PM
How does one follow US 41 in WI?

Follow Interstate 41, US 41 is cosigned with I-41 on reassurance markers.  If you feel adventurous and want to follow the old road, can take WIS 175 between Milwaukee and Fond Du Lac, that is the old route of US 41.  On the north end of Green Bay, I-41 ends but US 41 continues as a freeway for about 15 miles north until a system interchange at US 141, then it becomes an expressway with freeway bypasses of Oconto and Peshtigo.  About 5 miles north of Peshtigo, US 41 enters the City of Marinette, and that is the only part of US 41 in Wisconsin that is not a freeway or expressway.  Then there's the bridge across the Menominee River into Michigan into the City of Menominee, where US 41 enters Michigan, and you can continue up to Copper Harbor where it ends.

Well, there is Appleton Av. and Lisbon Av. in Milwaukee. Speaking of, I wonder if WISDOT plans to put up WIS 175 signs at the same time as they sign I-41 in the metro area. I'm guessing they'll go for an abrupt transition, like they did with 241.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on June 09, 2015, 11:34:58 AM
Quote from: FightingIrish on June 09, 2015, 07:51:02 AM
Quote from: mikeov1985 on June 07, 2015, 08:43:49 PM
Quote from: mikeov1985 on June 04, 2015, 10:27:12 AM
I noticed I-41 reassurance markers around Oshkosh earlier this week.

Here's one of the reassurance markers in Oshkosh.
https://flic.kr/p/u87TN2

Almost seems like the signing crews are working their way south from Green Bay to the Illinois border. Are there signs up around Appleton yet?

Oh yea, same as the rest of the route in NE Wisconsin.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: The Ghostbuster on June 10, 2015, 03:56:40 PM
I still think Interstate 41 should go to Abrams. Screw the traffic counts and the fact Abrams is an unincorporated town.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hobsini2 on June 10, 2015, 09:50:15 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on June 08, 2015, 06:48:30 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on June 08, 2015, 05:48:00 PM
How does one follow US 41 in WI?

Follow Interstate 41, US 41 is cosigned with I-41 on reassurance markers.  If you feel adventurous and want to follow the old road, can take WIS 175 between Milwaukee and Fond Du Lac, that is the old route of US 41.  On the north end of Green Bay, I-41 ends but US 41 continues as a freeway for about 15 miles north until a system interchange at US 141, then it becomes an expressway with freeway bypasses of Oconto and Peshtigo.  About 5 miles north of Peshtigo, US 41 enters the City of Marinette, and that is the only part of US 41 in Wisconsin that is not a freeway or expressway.  Then there's the bridge across the Menominee River into Michigan into the City of Menominee, where US 41 enters Michigan, and you can continue up to Copper Harbor where it ends. 
Don't forget the routing in Milwaukee Co.

The routing from circa 1985 had US 41 exit I-94 at 27th St. 27th is now Wis 241. US 41 followed 27th St north to Wis 59 National Ave. The former route turns west on National Ave and goes to what is now Wis 341 Miller Park Way, formerly the Stadium Frwy. Turn north on Miller Park Way. It continued to the end of the freeway at Lisbon Ave. Head west-northwest on Lisbon to Appleton Ave. Angle right on Appleton Ave. From there, it goes to the US 45 Zoo Freeway.

At that point in 1985, US 41 joined US 45 North. But as peterj920 ponted out, US 41 did follow what is now Wis 175 Appleton Ave. all the way to Fond du Lac.

Unfortunately, I can't tell you how it was route prior to the bypass of Fond du Lac and Oshkosh. My theory was it used to be cosigned with US 45 from Fond du Lac to Downtown Oshkosh. Once US 45 crosses the Fox River on Main St, it turns on Algoma Blvd. I believe US 41 probably continued north on Main St to the intersection with New York and Harrison. Turn slightly right to follow Harrison. Once out of Oshkosh, Harrison becomes County A. I believe 41 follow A to Neenah. It then picked up Commercial St and what is now Wis 114 and headed into Menasha and current Wis 47 north into Appleton. But as I said, this is my theory of the route from Fond du Lac to Appleton.

For the Appleton section,  I would ask MGK since he is a native there and likely knows.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on June 10, 2015, 10:23:05 PM
That US 41 routing began in 1962, when the road was transferred from its original 27th St. to Lisbon Av. alignment. That was when the present-day Stadium Freeway was completed between National Av. and Lisbon Av. Here is a pretty good history of US 41 in Wisconsin :

http://www.wisconsinhighways.org/indepth/US-41_history.html
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on June 11, 2015, 12:49:42 AM
Quote from: hobsini2 on June 10, 2015, 09:50:15 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on June 08, 2015, 06:48:30 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on June 08, 2015, 05:48:00 PM
How does one follow US 41 in WI?

Follow Interstate 41, US 41 is cosigned with I-41 on reassurance markers.  If you feel adventurous and want to follow the old road, can take WIS 175 between Milwaukee and Fond Du Lac, that is the old route of US 41.  On the north end of Green Bay, I-41 ends but US 41 continues as a freeway for about 15 miles north until a system interchange at US 141, then it becomes an expressway with freeway bypasses of Oconto and Peshtigo.  About 5 miles north of Peshtigo, US 41 enters the City of Marinette, and that is the only part of US 41 in Wisconsin that is not a freeway or expressway.  Then there's the bridge across the Menominee River into Michigan into the City of Menominee, where US 41 enters Michigan, and you can continue up to Copper Harbor where it ends. 
Don't forget the routing in Milwaukee Co.

The routing from circa 1985 had US 41 exit I-94 at 27th St. 27th is now Wis 241. US 41 followed 27th St north to Wis 59 National Ave. The former route turns west on National Ave and goes to what is now Wis 341 Miller Park Way, formerly the Stadium Frwy. Turn north on Miller Park Way. It continued to the end of the freeway at Lisbon Ave. Head west-northwest on Lisbon to Appleton Ave. Angle right on Appleton Ave. From there, it goes to the US 45 Zoo Freeway.

At that point in 1985, US 41 joined US 45 North. But as peterj920 ponted out, US 41 did follow what is now Wis 175 Appleton Ave. all the way to Fond du Lac.

Unfortunately, I can't tell you how it was route prior to the bypass of Fond du Lac and Oshkosh. My theory was it used to be cosigned with US 45 from Fond du Lac to Downtown Oshkosh. Once US 45 crosses the Fox River on Main St, it turns on Algoma Blvd. I believe US 41 probably continued north on Main St to the intersection with New York and Harrison. Turn slightly right to follow Harrison. Once out of Oshkosh, Harrison becomes County A. I believe 41 follow A to Neenah. It then picked up Commercial St and what is now Wis 114 and headed into Menasha and current Wis 47 north into Appleton. But as I said, this is my theory of the route from Fond du Lac to Appleton.

For the Appleton section,  I would ask MGK since he is a native there and likely knows.

The Milwaukee County stretch is now co-routed with I-41.  The Stadium Freeway and Lisbon Ave is going to be signed as WIS 175 so the routing will expand to follow even more of the former US 41 routing.  In Milwaukee along WIS 241, there are Historic US 41 markers that were recently installed.  Heading West on I-94 before the Stadium Interchange, there is a sign that says "TO Fond Du Lac VIA Freeway Use US 45" telling people not to follow US 41 through the city when heading out of Milwaukee.  In the future, the Stadium Freeway won't be a full freeway, the Stadium Interchange is going to be reconstructed and downgraded when the North-South Freeway is reconstructed, traffic will be free flow off of I-94, but there will be Left Turn Only traffic signals for motorists that want to turn left from WIS 175 to I-94.  I'm guessing the DOT did not think a full free flow interchange was not justified for the cost, but still wanted to create a high level interchange with some cost savings.  I hope my description wasn't too confusing but here's an exhibit, this was made before the I-41 conversion. http://dot.wi.gov/projects/seregion/94stadiumint/docs/eastlegoffalign.pdf
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on June 11, 2015, 01:39:57 AM
Quote from: hobsini2 on June 10, 2015, 09:50:15 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on June 08, 2015, 06:48:30 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on June 08, 2015, 05:48:00 PM
How does one follow US 41 in WI?

Follow Interstate 41, US 41 is cosigned with I-41 on reassurance markers.  If you feel adventurous and want to follow the old road, can take WIS 175 between Milwaukee and Fond Du Lac, that is the old route of US 41.  On the north end of Green Bay, I-41 ends but US 41 continues as a freeway for about 15 miles north until a system interchange at US 141, then it becomes an expressway with freeway bypasses of Oconto and Peshtigo.  About 5 miles north of Peshtigo, US 41 enters the City of Marinette, and that is the only part of US 41 in Wisconsin that is not a freeway or expressway.  Then there's the bridge across the Menominee River into Michigan into the City of Menominee, where US 41 enters Michigan, and you can continue up to Copper Harbor where it ends. 
Don't forget the routing in Milwaukee Co.

The routing from circa 1985 had US 41 exit I-94 at 27th St. 27th is now Wis 241. US 41 followed 27th St north to Wis 59 National Ave. The former route turns west on National Ave and goes to what is now Wis 341 Miller Park Way, formerly the Stadium Frwy. Turn north on Miller Park Way. It continued to the end of the freeway at Lisbon Ave. Head west-northwest on Lisbon to Appleton Ave. Angle right on Appleton Ave. From there, it goes to the US 45 Zoo Freeway.

At that point in 1985, US 41 joined US 45 North. But as peterj920 ponted out, US 41 did follow what is now Wis 175 Appleton Ave. all the way to Fond du Lac.

Unfortunately, I can't tell you how it was route prior to the bypass of Fond du Lac and Oshkosh. My theory was it used to be cosigned with US 45 from Fond du Lac to Downtown Oshkosh. Once US 45 crosses the Fox River on Main St, it turns on Algoma Blvd. I believe US 41 probably continued north on Main St to the intersection with New York and Harrison. Turn slightly right to follow Harrison. Once out of Oshkosh, Harrison becomes County A. I believe 41 follow A to Neenah. It then picked up Commercial St and what is now Wis 114 and headed into Menasha and current Wis 47 north into Appleton. But as I said, this is my theory of the route from Fond du Lac to Appleton.

For the Appleton section,  I would ask MGK since he is a native there and likely knows.

(After WI 15 became US 41 in the late 1920s)
-In Racine and Kenosha Counties, US 41 is on its original grade (now I-41/94/US 41).
-In Milwaukee County, US 41 used 27th St (part is WI 241), Lisbon Ave and Appleton Ave (now WI 175 northwest of the Stadium Freeway).
-Between Milwaukee and Oshkosh, with several minor reroutes over the years, US 41 used what is now WI 175 (ex-WI 175 between US 151 on FdL's south edge and Oshkosh, now county highways) until the present I-41 routing (originally a two lane highway) was opened in about 1948.  The current I-41 alignment was 'tweaked' here and there over the years as the highway was progressively upgraded.
-In the City of Oshkosh, US 41 used Main St, Murdock Ave and Jackson St (latter is now WI 76).  In an interesting pairing, US 45 originally used 22nd Ave, Oregon and Jackson Sts through town.  (Before US 45 was designated in Wisconsin, it was 'WI 26' north of Oshkosh.)
-North of Oshkosh, US 41 used multitudes of different routings that changed on a regular and frequent basis has the highway was progressively upgraded going all the way back to when the original WI 15 was signed in the late 1910s.  The most recent major reroute was when the freeway (now I-41) through Ashwaubenon was opened in 1974, taking US 41 off of Ashland and Lombardi Aves (right past Lambeau Field).  The route was realigned slightly when the Breezewood Ln/Bell St interchange and a railroad grade separation were completed on Neenah's south edge in 1975, ditto for the interchange at what is now US 10/WI 441.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: OCGuy81 on June 12, 2015, 12:44:10 PM
I actually like the I and US 41 shields side by side.  Kind of cool to see!

It'd be really cool to see some state named I-41 shields put up, but that's wishful thinking. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on June 12, 2015, 01:04:38 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on June 11, 2015, 01:39:57 AM
Quote from: hobsini2 on June 10, 2015, 09:50:15 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on June 08, 2015, 06:48:30 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on June 08, 2015, 05:48:00 PM
How does one follow US 41 in WI?

Follow Interstate 41, US 41 is cosigned with I-41 on reassurance markers.  If you feel adventurous and want to follow the old road, can take WIS 175 between Milwaukee and Fond Du Lac, that is the old route of US 41.  On the north end of Green Bay, I-41 ends but US 41 continues as a freeway for about 15 miles north until a system interchange at US 141, then it becomes an expressway with freeway bypasses of Oconto and Peshtigo.  About 5 miles north of Peshtigo, US 41 enters the City of Marinette, and that is the only part of US 41 in Wisconsin that is not a freeway or expressway.  Then there's the bridge across the Menominee River into Michigan into the City of Menominee, where US 41 enters Michigan, and you can continue up to Copper Harbor where it ends. 
Don't forget the routing in Milwaukee Co.

The routing from circa 1985 had US 41 exit I-94 at 27th St. 27th is now Wis 241. US 41 followed 27th St north to Wis 59 National Ave. The former route turns west on National Ave and goes to what is now Wis 341 Miller Park Way, formerly the Stadium Frwy. Turn north on Miller Park Way. It continued to the end of the freeway at Lisbon Ave. Head west-northwest on Lisbon to Appleton Ave. Angle right on Appleton Ave. From there, it goes to the US 45 Zoo Freeway.

At that point in 1985, US 41 joined US 45 North. But as peterj920 ponted out, US 41 did follow what is now Wis 175 Appleton Ave. all the way to Fond du Lac.

Unfortunately, I can't tell you how it was route prior to the bypass of Fond du Lac and Oshkosh. My theory was it used to be cosigned with US 45 from Fond du Lac to Downtown Oshkosh. Once US 45 crosses the Fox River on Main St, it turns on Algoma Blvd. I believe US 41 probably continued north on Main St to the intersection with New York and Harrison. Turn slightly right to follow Harrison. Once out of Oshkosh, Harrison becomes County A. I believe 41 follow A to Neenah. It then picked up Commercial St and what is now Wis 114 and headed into Menasha and current Wis 47 north into Appleton. But as I said, this is my theory of the route from Fond du Lac to Appleton.

For the Appleton section,  I would ask MGK since he is a native there and likely knows.

(After WI 15 became US 41 in the late 1920s)
-In Racine and Kenosha Counties, US 41 is on its original grade (now I-41/94/US 41).
-In Milwaukee County, US 41 used 27th St (part is WI 241), Lisbon Ave and Appleton Ave (now WI 175 northwest of the Stadium Freeway).
-Between Milwaukee and Oshkosh, with several minor reroutes over the years, US 41 used what is now WI 175 (ex-WI 175 between US 151 on FdL's south edge and Oshkosh, now county highways) until the present I-41 routing (originally a two lane highway) was opened in about 1948.  The current I-41 alignment was 'tweaked' here and there over the years as the highway was progressively upgraded.
-In the City of Oshkosh, US 41 used Main St, Murdock Ave and Jackson St (latter is now WI 76).  In an interesting pairing, US 45 originally used 22nd Ave, Oregon and Jackson Sts through town.  (Before US 45 was designated in Wisconsin, it was 'WI 26' north of Oshkosh.)
-North of Oshkosh, US 41 used multitudes of different routings that changed on a regular and frequent basis has the highway was progressively upgraded going all the way back to when the original WI 15 was signed in the late 1910s.  The most recent major reroute was when the freeway (now I-41) through Ashwaubenon was opened in 1974, taking US 41 off of Ashland and Lombardi Aves (right past Lambeau Field).  The route was realigned slightly when the Breezewood Ln/Bell St interchange and a railroad grade separation were completed on Neenah's south edge in 1975, ditto for the interchange at what is now US 10/WI 441.

Mike


Not to be nitpicky, but the bolded part isn't 100% true.  For its first decade US-41 entered Illinois along what is now WI-31.  As you went south, you jogged eastward from the current route to WI-31 south of the current WI-142.

Here is a complete history of all changes courtesy of Chris Bessert.

http://www.wisconsinhighways.org/indepth/US-41_history.html
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on June 12, 2015, 02:31:23 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 12, 2015, 01:04:38 PMNot to be nitpicky, but the bolded part isn't 100% true.  For its first decade US-41 entered Illinois along what is now WI-31.  As you went south, you jogged eastward from the current route to WI-31 south of the current WI-142.

Here is a complete history of all changes courtesy of Chris Bessert.

http://www.wisconsinhighways.org/indepth/US-41_history.html

I was wondering a bit about the history of north-south main roads in that area, including WI 15/US 41, seeing as the pre-numbered highways era Yellowstone Trail transited that area north-south roughly along modern-day WI 32/Sheridan Rd, but that there were other major north-south roads to the west.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: The Ghostbuster on June 12, 2015, 03:46:29 PM
Off topic: Does anyone know if www.wisconsinhighways.org will ever be updated? It's last update was January 31, 2009.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on June 12, 2015, 04:05:01 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on June 12, 2015, 03:46:29 PM
Off topic: Does anyone know if www.wisconsinhighways.org will ever be updated? It's last update was January 31, 2009.

You can find Chris Bessert's contact information on that site.  He has posted here before but not very often.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: getemngo on June 12, 2015, 04:14:37 PM
Chris doesn't really participate in the community anymore besides lurking in a couple Facebook groups. OntarioHighways.org and WisconsinHighways.org didn't get the 2013 redesign (still in progress) that MichiganHighways.org received, which is a pretty bad sign for both of them.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Right on Red on June 12, 2015, 06:12:33 PM
The I-41 signs are all up south to about Lomira (WI 67), according to some friends of mine. They also saw signing crews taking down Speed Limit 65 signs. 70 time? :nod:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on June 12, 2015, 09:40:30 PM
Quote from: Right on Red on June 12, 2015, 06:12:33 PM
The I-41 signs are all up south to about Lomira (WI 67), according to some friends of mine. They also saw signing crews taking down Speed Limit 65 signs. 70 time? :nod:
Likely - I haven't seen them at La Crosse yet. (Speed Limit 70 signs, not I-41 signs :awesomeface: )
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Mrt90 on June 12, 2015, 10:31:18 PM
I drove from Kenosha to Germantown today. On northbound trip, I saw 3 I-41 signs between Good Hope Rd and Hwy 167 East.  On the southbound return, I saw a number of I-41 signs north of the zoo interchange, along the 894 bypass, and all the way through Milwaukee County.  The last one I saw was near Ryan Rd in Oak Creek.  I didn't see any in Racine or Kenosha Counties.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Icewolf on June 13, 2015, 10:28:58 AM
In addition, there is a WI-175 sign posted on the northbound (Milwaukee) Stadium Freeway at Vliet St.  Most of the US-41 signs on that corridor remain.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on June 13, 2015, 12:16:47 PM
Milwaukee County was given priority (probably (FAILing) to reduce confusion).  The rest was from north to south.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Mrt90 on June 13, 2015, 08:47:25 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 12, 2015, 01:04:38 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on June 11, 2015, 01:39:57 AM
Quote from: hobsini2 on June 10, 2015, 09:50:15 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on June 08, 2015, 06:48:30 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on June 08, 2015, 05:48:00 PM
How does one follow US 41 in WI?

Follow Interstate 41, US 41 is cosigned with I-41 on reassurance markers.  If you feel adventurous and want to follow the old road, can take WIS 175 between Milwaukee and Fond Du Lac, that is the old route of US 41.  On the north end of Green Bay, I-41 ends but US 41 continues as a freeway for about 15 miles north until a system interchange at US 141, then it becomes an expressway with freeway bypasses of Oconto and Peshtigo.  About 5 miles north of Peshtigo, US 41 enters the City of Marinette, and that is the only part of US 41 in Wisconsin that is not a freeway or expressway.  Then there's the bridge across the Menominee River into Michigan into the City of Menominee, where US 41 enters Michigan, and you can continue up to Copper Harbor where it ends. 
Don't forget the routing in Milwaukee Co.

The routing from circa 1985 had US 41 exit I-94 at 27th St. 27th is now Wis 241. US 41 followed 27th St north to Wis 59 National Ave. The former route turns west on National Ave and goes to what is now Wis 341 Miller Park Way, formerly the Stadium Frwy. Turn north on Miller Park Way. It continued to the end of the freeway at Lisbon Ave. Head west-northwest on Lisbon to Appleton Ave. Angle right on Appleton Ave. From there, it goes to the US 45 Zoo Freeway.

At that point in 1985, US 41 joined US 45 North. But as peterj920 ponted out, US 41 did follow what is now Wis 175 Appleton Ave. all the way to Fond du Lac.

Unfortunately, I can't tell you how it was route prior to the bypass of Fond du Lac and Oshkosh. My theory was it used to be cosigned with US 45 from Fond du Lac to Downtown Oshkosh. Once US 45 crosses the Fox River on Main St, it turns on Algoma Blvd. I believe US 41 probably continued north on Main St to the intersection with New York and Harrison. Turn slightly right to follow Harrison. Once out of Oshkosh, Harrison becomes County A. I believe 41 follow A to Neenah. It then picked up Commercial St and what is now Wis 114 and headed into Menasha and current Wis 47 north into Appleton. But as I said, this is my theory of the route from Fond du Lac to Appleton.

For the Appleton section,  I would ask MGK since he is a native there and likely knows.

(After WI 15 became US 41 in the late 1920s)
-In Racine and Kenosha Counties, US 41 is on its original grade (now I-41/94/US 41).
-In Milwaukee County, US 41 used 27th St (part is WI 241), Lisbon Ave and Appleton Ave (now WI 175 northwest of the Stadium Freeway).
-Between Milwaukee and Oshkosh, with several minor reroutes over the years, US 41 used what is now WI 175 (ex-WI 175 between US 151 on FdL's south edge and Oshkosh, now county highways) until the present I-41 routing (originally a two lane highway) was opened in about 1948.  The current I-41 alignment was 'tweaked' here and there over the years as the highway was progressively upgraded.
-In the City of Oshkosh, US 41 used Main St, Murdock Ave and Jackson St (latter is now WI 76).  In an interesting pairing, US 45 originally used 22nd Ave, Oregon and Jackson Sts through town.  (Before US 45 was designated in Wisconsin, it was 'WI 26' north of Oshkosh.)
-North of Oshkosh, US 41 used multitudes of different routings that changed on a regular and frequent basis has the highway was progressively upgraded going all the way back to when the original WI 15 was signed in the late 1910s.  The most recent major reroute was when the freeway (now I-41) through Ashwaubenon was opened in 1974, taking US 41 off of Ashland and Lombardi Aves (right past Lambeau Field).  The route was realigned slightly when the Breezewood Ln/Bell St interchange and a railroad grade separation were completed on Neenah's south edge in 1975, ditto for the interchange at what is now US 10/WI 441.

Mike


Not to be nitpicky, but the bolded part isn't 100% true.  For its first decade US-41 entered Illinois along what is now WI-31.  As you went south, you jogged eastward from the current route to WI-31 south of the current WI-142.

Here is a complete history of all changes courtesy of Chris Bessert.

http://www.wisconsinhighways.org/indepth/US-41_history.html
This probably is being nitpicky, but that portion of WI142 is now Cty Hwy S.  And WI31 was rerouted a little bit west in the 1990's when a new 4/6 lane divided Hwy 31 was created, so most of that old US 41 route, except just South of Hwy50 and just north of the state line, followed what is now Old Green Bay Road.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Revive 755 on June 14, 2015, 12:15:40 AM
Quote from: Mrt90 on June 12, 2015, 10:31:18 PM
I drove from Kenosha to Germantown today. On northbound trip, I saw 3 I-41 signs between Good Hope Rd and Hwy 167 East.  On the southbound return, I saw a number of I-41 signs north of the zoo interchange, along the 894 bypass, and all the way through Milwaukee County.  The last one I saw was near Ryan Rd in Oak Creek.  I didn't see any in Racine or Kenosha Counties.

There's one on EB I-94 just south of the first exist in Racine County.  Northbound the first I-41 shield appears on I-894 west of WI 36.  Between I-94 at the Zoo Interchange and Green Bay the I-41 shields are installed seemingly randomly (at least for NB), as there will be a couple interchanges followed by I-41 shields on the mainline, then a few interchanges without I-41 shields, and then I-41 shields return for a few more interchanges.

Around the interchange with WI 172, there is an NB overhead sign with only an I-41 shield and a control city of Marinette.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on June 14, 2015, 03:03:29 PM
I saw quite a few along the right shoulder going southbound on the Zoo Freeway and I-894. US 41 is cosigned. Overhead BGS remain unchanged so far. I'll try and snap pics.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on June 14, 2015, 07:50:53 PM
Here it is, on the Bypass northbound:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi62.tinypic.com%2F116oytv.jpg&hash=4022a89ad442dbb8f66405b270bb99059e7dc885)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: noelbotevera on June 14, 2015, 07:55:36 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on June 14, 2015, 07:50:53 PM
Here it is, on the Bypass northbound:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi62.tinypic.com%2F116oytv.jpg&hash=4022a89ad442dbb8f66405b270bb99059e7dc885)
Isn't that US 41 sign erroneous? It's only I-41, I-894, and US 45. Either that US 41 has a disputed routing through Milwaukee, or I'm wrong.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Big John on June 14, 2015, 07:56:23 PM
^^ That differs from the the proposed signage concept that the US 41 reassurance shield would not be erected in Milwaukee Metro.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Big John on June 14, 2015, 07:57:27 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on June 14, 2015, 07:55:36 PM

Isn't that US 41 sign erroneous? It's only I-41, I-894, and US 45. Either that US 41 has a disputed routing through Milwaukee, or I'm wrong.
US 41 had been rerouted in Milwaukee County to be completely concurrent with I-41.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on June 14, 2015, 08:15:16 PM
Quote from: Big John on June 14, 2015, 07:56:23 PM
^^ That differs from the the proposed signage concept that the US 41 reassurance shield would not be erected in Milwaukee Metro.

Yeah, that's weird. US 41 is signed like that at least on the parts of the Zoo Freeway I was on.

The BGS's and signs on intersections, however, won't show US 41. Only the reassurance signs on the shoulder and the center median (saw one of those near Watertown Plank Rd., a vertical sign with I-41, US 41 and 45, but it was covered). My guess is that this is a way to avoid driver confusion, as this is the biggest route realignment in the metro area since US 41 was moved off S. 27th St. in 1999. Might be the biggest since I-43 replaced WIS 15 in 1988, and US 141 a few years before that.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on June 14, 2015, 08:19:18 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on June 14, 2015, 07:55:36 PM

Isn't that US 41 sign erroneous? It's only I-41, I-894, and US 45. Either that US 41 has a disputed routing through Milwaukee, or I'm wrong.

I-41's alignment is being rerouted along the Bypass and the Zoo Freeway, and pulled off 94/43. The Stadium Freeway, Lisbon Av and Appleton Av are being renumbered as WIS 175.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on June 14, 2015, 09:29:38 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on June 14, 2015, 08:15:16 PM
Quote from: Big John on June 14, 2015, 07:56:23 PM
^^ That differs from the the proposed signage concept that the US 41 reassurance shield would not be erected in Milwaukee Metro.

Yeah, that's weird. US 41 is signed like that at least on the parts of the Zoo Freeway I was on.

The BGS's and signs on intersections, however, won't show US 41. Only the reassurance signs on the shoulder and the center median (saw one of those near Watertown Plank Rd., a vertical sign with I-41, US 41 and 45, but it was covered). My guess is that this is a way to avoid driver confusion, as this is the biggest route realignment in the metro area since US 41 was moved off S. 27th St. in 1999. Might be the biggest since I-43 replaced WIS 15 in 1988, and US 141 a few years before that.


US-41 should have been put on the bypass decades ago.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on June 14, 2015, 10:15:22 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on June 14, 2015, 07:50:53 PM
Here it is, on the Bypass northbound:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi62.tinypic.com%2F116oytv.jpg&hash=4022a89ad442dbb8f66405b270bb99059e7dc885)
They must have changed their mind about not signing along the road in Milwaukee.  Very odd.

Then again WisDOT likes its black background and multiplexing so it's sure showing it off.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Right on Red on June 15, 2015, 10:13:35 AM
There's a similar I-41/US-41/US-45/WI-167 sign near Germantown...but only on the southbound side so far.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on June 15, 2015, 08:06:04 PM
I drove from Milwaukee to Appleton today...it was magical! All that commercing and amazing interstate stuff - it was like all of a sudden it was a freeway! :-)

Just kidding. It was the same ol' Hwy 41 with shiny new shields.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on June 15, 2015, 11:43:15 PM
To recap all of the multiplexes:

I-41/I-94/US 41 from the US 41/I-94 Interchange to the Mitchell Interchange

I-41/I-43/I-894/US 41 from the Mitchell Interchange to the Hale Interchange

I-41/I-894/US 41/US 45 from the Hale Interchange to the Zoo Interchange

I-41/US 41/US 45 from the Zoo Interchange to Silver Spring Dr

I-41/US 41/ US 45/ WIS 100 from Silver Spring Dr to 124th St

I-41/US 41/ US 45 from 124th St to Lannon Rd

I-41/US 41/ US 45/ WIS 167 from Lannon Rd to Holy Hill Rd

I-41/US 41/ US 45 from Holy Hill Rd to the Richfield Interchange

I-41/US 41 from the Richfield Interchange to Velp Ave

I-41/US 41/ US 141 from Velp Ave to just beyond the I-43 interchange (the signing plans show that it will be signed starting about 1.5 miles north of I-43 and there will be a sign will all 3 highways)
(Did not count WIS 32 in the group because that route only runs along collector/distributor lanes between Mason St and the WIS 29 Interchange and is not routed along the mainline)

Total Multiplexes:
1 Duplex
3 Triplexes
4 Quadplexes

Along the entire route of I-41, that makes 8 different route combinations along the entire route!  4 quadplexes along a single route must be close to a record!


Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on June 15, 2015, 11:52:37 PM
One minor correction. WIS 100 is signed up to Main St. in Menomonee Falls, where it then heads toward the lake on Brown Deer Road. To this day, I still don't understand why it simply doesn't duplex the short distance with 145 on 124th St. to Brown Deer.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Mrt90 on June 16, 2015, 09:20:21 AM
I-41 signs are up in Kenosha County, going south, I saw one between Hwy C and Hwy 165, and another between Hwy 165 and the state line on my way to work this morning.  I was checking for signs going north, too, but I couldn't see any, but I did see that they were putting up the Speed Limit 70 signs. 

I wonder what they will do on the overhead signs where US41 splits from I-94 across the state line?  Will there be an "End I-41" sign somewhere or will they just ignore that?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Brandon on June 16, 2015, 04:40:55 PM
Quote from: Mrt90 on June 16, 2015, 09:20:21 AM
I wonder what they will do on the overhead signs where US41 splits from I-94 across the state line?  Will there be an "End I-41" sign somewhere or will they just ignore that?

If it's up to IDOT, don't bet on seeing any begin or end signage any time soon.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Big John on June 16, 2015, 04:52:44 PM
Quote from: Brandon on June 16, 2015, 04:40:55 PM
Quote from: Mrt90 on June 16, 2015, 09:20:21 AM
I wonder what they will do on the overhead signs where US41 splits from I-94 across the state line?  Will there be an "End I-41" sign somewhere or will they just ignore that?

If it's up to IDOT, don't bet on seeing any begin or end signage any time soon.
WisDOT's signing contract includes the Illinois portion of I-41 and I believe there will be end signage there.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Revive 755 on June 16, 2015, 06:53:28 PM
^ WisDOT's plans have a lot of signing for I-41 in Illinois, including:

* Two ground mounted End I-41 assemblies in front of an overhead APL sign for the I-94/US 41 split

* A 'US 41 follow I-41' sign on NB US 41 shortly before the merge with I-94.

* Adding I-41 to all of the trailblazing assemblies on Russell Road and the west frontage road.  US 41 will remain with these assemblies.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on June 16, 2015, 09:02:20 PM
IDiOT's reaction was basically "FkU, you want it, u put it up" :banghead:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on June 16, 2015, 09:15:13 PM
Also posted today another 12' long reassurance sign just south of the Hwy M/ Lineville Rd interchange, of I-41/US 41/US 141/ Lake Michigan Circle Tour, which means that the beginning is actually 1 exit up from the I-43 interchange.  Lineville Rd is where the expansion project ends, which is why they opted to extend the interstate to that exit.  No end signs yet, probably because of the ongoing roadwork, those reassurance signs were posted just before the roadwork begins. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Mrt90 on June 16, 2015, 10:39:12 PM
Quote from: Mrt90 on June 16, 2015, 09:20:21 AM
I-41 signs are up in Kenosha County, going south, I saw one between Hwy C and Hwy 165, and another between Hwy 165 and the state line on my way to work this morning.  I was checking for signs going north, too, but I couldn't see any, but I did see that they were putting up the Speed Limit 70 signs. 

I wonder what they will do on the overhead signs where US41 splits from I-94 across the state line?  Will there be an "End I-41" sign somewhere or will they just ignore that?
I saw 1 I-41 sign coming home from work today, it is actually very close to the 70mph sign I saw them putting up this morning.  I took the first exit (Hwy165) so I don't know for sure about signs in the rest of Kenosha County.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on June 17, 2015, 01:39:40 AM
Quote from: peterj920 on June 16, 2015, 09:15:13 PM
Also posted today another 12' long reassurance sign just south of the Hwy M/ Lineville Rd interchange, of I-41/US 41/US 141/ Lake Michigan Circle Tour, which means that the beginning is actually 1 exit up from the I-43 interchange.  Lineville Rd is where the expansion project ends, which is why they opted to extend the interstate to that exit.  No end signs yet, probably because of the ongoing roadwork, those reassurance signs were posted just before the roadwork begins.

Did they fix the signing mistake on the overhead BGSes on NB US 41/141 just south of County 'M'/Lineville Rd (no 'US 141' shields) yet?

:hmmm:

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on June 17, 2015, 09:03:15 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on June 17, 2015, 01:39:40 AM
Quote from: peterj920 on June 16, 2015, 09:15:13 PM
Also posted today another 12' long reassurance sign just south of the Hwy M/ Lineville Rd interchange, of I-41/US 41/US 141/ Lake Michigan Circle Tour, which means that the beginning is actually 1 exit up from the I-43 interchange.  Lineville Rd is where the expansion project ends, which is why they opted to extend the interstate to that exit.  No end signs yet, probably because of the ongoing roadwork, those reassurance signs were posted just before the roadwork begins.

Did they fix the signing mistake on the overhead BGSes on NB US 41/141 just south of County 'M'/Lineville Rd (no 'US 141' shields) yet?

:hmmm:

Mike

No work has been done to any overhead signs in the area, still says US 41 with an omission of US 141.  There aren't any End I-41 signs yet, and there was an I-41/US 141 reassurance sign at the end of I-43 also. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Avalanchez71 on June 17, 2015, 12:59:39 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on June 16, 2015, 09:02:20 PM
IDiOT's reaction was basically "FkU, you want it, u put it up" :banghead:
That would be my response as well.  This has been signed this way for longer than I have been alive if I am not mistaken.  How long has US 41 been on this routing in IL?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hobsini2 on June 17, 2015, 02:14:25 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on June 15, 2015, 11:52:37 PM
One minor correction. WIS 100 is signed up to Main St. in Menomonee Falls, where it then heads toward the lake on Brown Deer Road. To this day, I still don't understand why it simply doesn't duplex the short distance with 145 on 124th St. to Brown Deer.
Actually, I believe Wis 100 used to be along 107th St from Silver Spring Rd to Brown Deer Rd. That was according to a Delorme State Atlas from 1985 that was my grandfather's.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Big John on June 17, 2015, 03:15:11 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on June 17, 2015, 02:14:25 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on June 15, 2015, 11:52:37 PM
One minor correction. WIS 100 is signed up to Main St. in Menomonee Falls, where it then heads toward the lake on Brown Deer Road. To this day, I still don't understand why it simply doesn't duplex the short distance with 145 on 124th St. to Brown Deer.
Actually, I believe Wis 100 used to be along 107th St from Silver Spring Rd to Brown Deer Rd. That was according to a Delorme State Atlas from 1985 that was my grandfather's.
Yep, except it was from Good Hope Rd to Brown Deer Rd. (107th St does not exist between Silver Spring Dr and Appleton Ave) Rerouted as Milwaukee didn't want the trucks on 107th St.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on June 20, 2015, 03:19:24 PM
Yesterday, while driving around here in the Appleton area, I came upon a brand spankin' newly installed 'JCT/WI 41' sign on the eastbound Outagamie/Winnebago County 'BB' (Prospect Ave) approach to I-41.

:cheers:

"You had *JUST ONE JOB* - 'INTERstate 41', not 'state 41' . . . . "

:-D

:-P

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: roadman65 on June 20, 2015, 03:53:29 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on June 20, 2015, 03:19:24 PM
Yesterday, while driving around here in the Appleton area, I came upon a brand spankin' newly installed 'JCT/WI 41' sign on the eastbound Outagamie/Winnebago County 'BB' (Prospect Ave) approach to I-41.

:cheers:

"You had *JUST ONE JOB* - 'INTERstate 41', not 'state 41' . . . . "

:-D

:-P

Mike
Take a picture of it and then post on erroneous road signs.

Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on June 20, 2015, 07:55:13 PM
That may be a county highway department job.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on June 20, 2015, 08:45:28 PM
As the reassurance signs for I-41 seem to sporadically pop up around the state like dandelions, it looks like WIS 175 signs have started replacing the old US 41 signs along Appleton Ave in Milwaukee. The intersecting streets still show US 41 on the approaches.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on June 20, 2015, 10:22:43 PM
good.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ssoworld/sets/72157654438187278

A few photos of I-41's markings in greater Milwaukee are captured in the above Flickr Album.  The two Wrong-Way Concurrency markings are below along with the old median shields on the left.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/375/18817091309_ac4bfabe2a_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/uENvEM)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/421/19003248435_e1f7ded81e_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/uXfBGp)

Click images to visit their Flickr homes

Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FLRoads on June 21, 2015, 06:15:37 PM
A few more Milwaukee area Interstate 41 shield sightings taken by Alex and I on 06/13/15:

(//www.aaroads.com/shields/img/WI/WI19790412i1.jpg)
Interstates 41 & 94 (along with U.S. 41) uni-shield assembly taken at the on-ramp from Milwaukee County BB (Rawson Road).

(//www.aaroads.com/forum_images/midwest/i-041_894_us-041_045_nb_exit_002a_01.jpg)
Shield assembly showing the concurrency with I-41/I-894/U.S. 41/U.S. 45 north of the I-43 split.

(//www.aaroads.com/forum_images/midwest/i-041_us-041_045_sb_exit_040_01.jpg)
Southbound along the Zoo Freeway between North Avenue (Exit 42BA) and Watertown Plank Road (Exit 40).
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: roadman65 on June 21, 2015, 06:43:36 PM
Nice photos.  Some assemblies are like VDOT using one piece jobs.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on June 21, 2015, 07:39:09 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on June 21, 2015, 06:43:36 PM
Nice photos.  SomeAll assemblies are like VDOT using one piece jobs.
The likelihood of WisDOT contractors making cutouts is next to nil now - even for single Interstate routes.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: roadman65 on June 21, 2015, 07:59:53 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on June 21, 2015, 07:39:09 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on June 21, 2015, 06:43:36 PM
Nice photos.  SomeAll assemblies are like VDOT using one piece jobs.
The likelihood of WisDOT contractors making cutouts is next to nil now - even for single Interstate routes.
I meant some out of his photo collection.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: OCGuy81 on June 22, 2015, 12:09:42 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on June 20, 2015, 10:22:43 PM
good.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ssoworld/sets/72157654438187278

A few photos of I-41's markings in greater Milwaukee are captured in the above Flickr Album.  The two Wrong-Way Concurrency markings are below along with the old median shields on the left.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/375/18817091309_ac4bfabe2a_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/uENvEM)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/421/19003248435_e1f7ded81e_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/uXfBGp)

Click images to visit their Flickr homes



Excellent job on your Flickr album.  Those are great pictures.

I wasn't aware Wisconsin used Freeway Entrance signs, though there was one in your album.  Is that a recent thing they started doing?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Alex on June 22, 2015, 12:15:06 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on June 21, 2015, 07:59:53 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on June 21, 2015, 07:39:09 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on June 21, 2015, 06:43:36 PM
Nice photos.  SomeAll assemblies are like VDOT using one piece jobs.
The likelihood of WisDOT contractors making cutouts is next to nil now - even for single Interstate routes.
I meant some out of his photo collection.

The I-43/894 center line assemblies all remain likely from when Interstate 43 was extended southwest from Milwaukee. They do seem redundant today, but at least they are cutouts, which as Scott wrote, are never used in new assemblies now.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on June 22, 2015, 12:58:15 PM
Quote from: Alex on June 22, 2015, 12:15:06 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on June 21, 2015, 07:59:53 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on June 21, 2015, 07:39:09 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on June 21, 2015, 06:43:36 PM
Nice photos.  SomeAll assemblies are like VDOT using one piece jobs.
The likelihood of WisDOT contractors making cutouts is next to nil now - even for single Interstate routes.
I meant some out of his photo collection.

The I-43/894 center line assemblies all remain likely from when Interstate 43 was extended southwest from Milwaukee. They do seem redundant today, but at least they are cutouts, which as Scott wrote, are never used in new assemblies now.

I'm guessing the center assemblies will eventually be replaced. Looks like they're doing a task at a time, with shoulder assemblies first. Next would be center, overhead and intersecting streets, in whatever order they see fit.

I have seen one new center assembly (41/41/45), at the Watertown Plank Road Interchange. For some reason, it's covered.

I'm sure the overrouting is to try to minimize confusion. The Bypass has been referred to as I-894 for the last half century. Perhaps eventually 894 will be retired, but the state will probably see no reason to do that. The staggered signing is probably serving a purpose in getting people familiar with I-41.

And I've noticed that many sign assemblies today are made out of plywood, though I've heard of aluminum being used as well.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on June 22, 2015, 01:04:22 PM
Oh, and for those curious about the experimental orange lane markings in the Zoo Interchange construction zone, check out the last two pics on the Flickr page.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Henry on June 22, 2015, 01:09:21 PM
I'm sure that the I-41/I-43 concurrency will be deja vu to those who have driven I-77/I-81 in VA.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: The Ghostbuster on June 22, 2015, 03:07:22 PM
Although they will probably not renumber the exits from the Zoo Interchange north, if they wanted to make it purely by mileage from the Illinois border, the exits would have to be increased by 5. Following the route of Interstate/US 41 from the state border to the Zoo interchange is 43 miles, though the exit sequence of the Zoo Freeway is that of US 45 and maybe the Zoo Interchange is 38 miles from where US 45 enters Wisconsin.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Milwaukee, WY on June 22, 2015, 04:05:12 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on June 22, 2015, 12:09:42 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on June 20, 2015, 10:22:43 PM
good.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ssoworld/sets/72157654438187278

A few photos of I-41's markings in greater Milwaukee are captured in the above Flickr Album.  The two Wrong-Way Concurrency markings are below along with the old median shields on the left.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/375/18817091309_ac4bfabe2a_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/uENvEM)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/421/19003248435_e1f7ded81e_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/uXfBGp)

Click images to visit their Flickr homes



Excellent job on your Flickr album.  Those are great pictures.

I wasn't aware Wisconsin used Freeway Entrance signs, though there was one in your album.  Is that a recent thing they started doing?

They started showing up around Milwaukee within the past couple years. They tend to be in areas where entrances and exits are nearby on surface streets, to reduce confusion. (We have had a rash of wrong way drivers around the metro area in recent years, and my guess is this is one way of trying to reduce those).

Fixed quote. (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4000.0) - rmf67
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on June 22, 2015, 06:22:16 PM
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on June 22, 2015, 04:05:12 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on June 22, 2015, 12:09:42 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on June 20, 2015, 10:22:43 PM
good.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ssoworld/sets/72157654438187278

A few photos of I-41's markings in greater Milwaukee are captured in the above Flickr Album.  The two Wrong-Way Concurrency markings are below along with the old median shields on the left.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/375/18817091309_ac4bfabe2a_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/uENvEM)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/421/19003248435_e1f7ded81e_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/uXfBGp)

Click images to visit their Flickr homes



Excellent job on your Flickr album.  Those are great pictures.

I wasn't aware Wisconsin used Freeway Entrance signs, though there was one in your album.  Is that a recent thing they started doing?

They started showing up around Milwaukee within the past couple years. They tend to be in areas where entrances and exits are nearby on surface streets, to reduce confusion. (We have had a rash of wrong way drivers around the metro area in recent years, and my guess is this is one way of trying to reduce those).

Fixed quote. (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4000.0) - rmf67

The ramp in the picture with the Freeway Entrance sign used to be a frontage road.  Most of the entrance/exit ramps on I-94 south of Milwaukee were scissors ramps that tied into the frontage roads, similar to ramps on many Texas freeways.  In the last few years, the frontage roads were realigned so the exit and entrance ramps were separated from the frontage roads.  I've only seen the freeway entrance signs on that stretch and it's to remind drivers of the new configuration. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on June 22, 2015, 07:35:09 PM
I don't see Wisconsin using Freeway Entrance signs as religiously as California or Nevada would.  as peterj920 points out, the ramps in Racine and Kenosha counties were previously "scissor" ramps that served both the frontage roads and the ramps.  These have all been removed and the frontage road crossings pulled away from the ramps.  The signs tell the familiar driver that if they want the frontage road, they better not turn here.

tl:dr - the signs are to disambiguate.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: ajlynch91 on June 23, 2015, 12:31:40 AM
I saw one Freeway Entrance sign in downstate Illinois somewhere entering I-55 south of Springfield...are those common downstate? I've not seen one in District 1 nor anywhere for the Tollway.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Alex on June 23, 2015, 09:47:26 AM
Quote from: ajlynch91 on June 23, 2015, 12:31:40 AM
I saw one Freeway Entrance sign in downstate Illinois somewhere entering I-55 south of Springfield...are those common downstate? I've not seen one in District 1 nor anywhere for the Tollway.

There are some along Interstate 72. Minnesota uses a few as well, such as one at the southbound beginning of I-35.

</freeway entrance signs>
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Rothman on June 23, 2015, 08:48:50 PM
Quote from: Alex on June 23, 2015, 09:47:26 AM
Quote from: ajlynch91 on June 23, 2015, 12:31:40 AM
I saw one Freeway Entrance sign in downstate Illinois somewhere entering I-55 south of Springfield...are those common downstate? I've not seen one in District 1 nor anywhere for the Tollway.

There are some along Interstate 72. Minnesota uses a few as well, such as one at the southbound beginning of I-35.

</freeway entrance signs>

Aren't there a few around I-494/I-694 as well?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Molandfreak on June 23, 2015, 10:23:16 PM
Every entrance ramp in MN has one of those signs.


iPhone
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on June 23, 2015, 10:49:03 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on June 23, 2015, 10:23:16 PM
Every entrance ramp in MN has one of those signs.


iPhone
You sure?  I have seen some without.

EDIT: might have been due to construction though.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Molandfreak on June 23, 2015, 10:51:52 PM

Quote from: SSOWorld on June 23, 2015, 10:49:03 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on June 23, 2015, 10:23:16 PM
Every entrance ramp in MN has one of those signs.


iPhone
You sure?  I have seen some without.
You mean the ones that say "freeway entrance: emergency stopping only; bicycles, pedestrians, non-motorized vehicles prohibited?" Every single Interstate/freeway has those.


iPhone
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Rothman on June 23, 2015, 11:44:12 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on June 23, 2015, 10:23:16 PM
Every entrance ramp in MN has one of those signs.


iPhone

Quote from: Molandfreak on June 23, 2015, 10:51:52 PM

Quote from: SSOWorld on June 23, 2015, 10:49:03 PM
Quote from: Molandfreak on June 23, 2015, 10:23:16 PM
Every entrance ramp in MN has one of those signs.


iPhone
You sure?  I have seen some without.
You mean the ones that say "freeway entrance: emergency stopping only; bicycles, pedestrians, non-motorized vehicles prohibited?" Every single Interstate/freeway has those.


iPhone

No.  I believe we are talking about the SGSes that just say "FREEWAY ENTRANCE," white-on-green.

Plus, I can show you on ramps around here that don't have the emergency stopping warning posted on them.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Henry on June 24, 2015, 01:11:03 PM
Quote from: ajlynch91 on June 23, 2015, 12:31:40 AM
I saw one Freeway Entrance sign in downstate Illinois somewhere entering I-55 south of Springfield...are those common downstate? I've not seen one in District 1 nor anywhere for the Tollway.
I just assumed the rest of the state would call them "Expressways" like Chicago does. Then again, I'm not that familiar with the downstate area, so I would not know for sure.

Quote from: Alex on June 23, 2015, 09:47:26 AM
Quote from: ajlynch91 on June 23, 2015, 12:31:40 AM
I saw one Freeway Entrance sign in downstate Illinois somewhere entering I-55 south of Springfield...are those common downstate? I've not seen one in District 1 nor anywhere for the Tollway.

There are some along Interstate 72. Minnesota uses a few as well, such as one at the southbound beginning of I-35.

</freeway entrance signs>
...although this is certainly a start.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: noelbotevera on June 24, 2015, 02:06:36 PM
How many miles of signage have I-41 shields? Right now the most I can see are in Milwaukee County.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on June 24, 2015, 02:27:00 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on June 24, 2015, 02:06:36 PM
How many miles of signage have I-41 shields? Right now the most I can see are in Milwaukee County.

From what I am aware of, its entire mainline has had its reassurance signs changed.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Mrt90 on June 24, 2015, 08:24:32 PM
Nothing on the Illinois side of the border yet.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mikeov1985 on June 25, 2015, 11:37:20 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on June 24, 2015, 02:27:00 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on June 24, 2015, 02:06:36 PM
How many miles of signage have I-41 shields? Right now the most I can see are in Milwaukee County.

From what I am aware of, its entire mainline has had its reassurance signs changed.

Mike

There are a few reassurance signs in the Appleton area that have not yet been updated.  I expect those will be updated as the construction finishes.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on June 25, 2015, 12:02:03 PM
Quote from: mikeov1985 on June 25, 2015, 11:37:20 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on June 24, 2015, 02:27:00 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on June 24, 2015, 02:06:36 PM
How many miles of signage have I-41 shields? Right now the most I can see are in Milwaukee County.

From what I am aware of, its entire mainline has had its reassurance signs changed.

Mike

There are a few reassurance signs in the Appleton area that have not yet been updated.  I expect those will be updated as the construction finishes.

Well, the obvious exception of the Appleton and Green Bay area construction zones.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: oscar on June 25, 2015, 10:09:40 PM
Quick and urgent question: About when was US 41 converted to freeway between Appleton and I-43 in Green Bay?  I'll be there tomorrow, and need to decide how much of US 41 I need to travel to count I-41 as clinched (by my rules). I have traveled US 41 between WI 441 and I-43, but don't remember whether it was freeway back whenever I traveled it (probably some time after 2000). I should've consulted my old road atlases, but forgot to do so before I left home this morning.

If need be, I'll take US 41 all the way up to I-43, but that would add about an hour to my trip. I know I'm missing big chunks of US 41 around Appleton and points south, so I'm going at least that far no matter what.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on June 25, 2015, 10:27:37 PM
Quote from: oscar on June 25, 2015, 10:09:40 PM
Quick and urgent question: About when was US 41 converted to freeway between Appleton and I-43 in Green Bay?  I'll be there tomorrow, and need to decide how much of US 41 I need to travel to count I-41 as clinched (by my rules). I have traveled US 41 between WI 441 and I-43, but don't remember whether it was freeway back whenever I traveled it (probably some time after 2000). I should've consulted my old road atlases, but forgot to do so before I left home this morning.

If need be, I'll take US 41 all the way up to I-43, but that would add about an hour to my trip. I know I'm missing big chunks of US 41 around Appleton and points south, so I'm going at least that far no matter what.

The first reassurance sign on I-41 is the exit after I-43, which is Hwy M/Lineville Rd.  The I-41 North/I-43 South ramp is closed due to construction, but I think the designation is ending at Lineville Rd because that is where the expansion project ends and that interchange leads to the fastest growing area in the Green Bay Metro Area.  There's no End signs yet, they are probably waiting for the construction to end before posting.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Big John on June 25, 2015, 10:30:34 PM
oscar, the last segment of US 41 between Appleton and Green Bay between County J and County F was converted to freeway in 2000.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on June 25, 2015, 10:48:01 PM
Yesterday, I went to the Brewer game and I-43 was congested around North Ave, so I decided to exit onto North Ave and take the Stadium Freeway down.  Most of the US 41 signs are still posted, but there are a couple of random WIS 175 signs, in no particular order.  Also, the Alternate I-41 signs on I-43 are still covered.  Looks like the sign crews aren't in a hurry to change the old US 41 signs over so US 41 might be signed on 2 different routes for a while.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on June 26, 2015, 12:32:53 AM
Quote from: oscar on June 25, 2015, 10:09:40 PM
Quick and urgent question: About when was US 41 converted to freeway between Appleton and I-43 in Green Bay?  I'll be there tomorrow, and need to decide how much of US 41 I need to travel to count I-41 as clinched (by my rules). I have traveled US 41 between WI 441 and I-43, but don't remember whether it was freeway back whenever I traveled it (probably some time after 2000). I should've consulted my old road atlases, but forgot to do so before I left home this morning.

If need be, I'll take US 41 all the way up to I-43, but that would add about an hour to my trip. I know I'm missing big chunks of US 41 around Appleton and points south, so I'm going at least that far no matter what.

Wanna meet up somewhere for an impromptu mini-meet?  I don't have to be in to work until 1630.

BTW, yes, the last crossroad on what is now I-41 was severed in 2000.  The one last severed south of Oshkosh was in about 1997.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: oscar on June 26, 2015, 03:15:17 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on June 26, 2015, 12:32:53 AM
Quote from: oscar on June 25, 2015, 10:09:40 PM
Quick and urgent question: About when was US 41 converted to freeway between Appleton and I-43 in Green Bay?  I'll be there tomorrow, and need to decide how much of US 41 I need to travel to count I-41 as clinched (by my rules). I have traveled US 41 between WI 441 and I-43, but don't remember whether it was freeway back whenever I traveled it (probably some time after 2000). I should've consulted my old road atlases, but forgot to do so before I left home this morning.

If need be, I'll take US 41 all the way up to I-43, but that would add about an hour to my trip. I know I'm missing big chunks of US 41 around Appleton and points south, so I'm going at least that far no matter what.

Wanna meet up somewhere for an impromptu mini-meet?  I don't have to be in to work until 1630.

BTW, yes, the last crossroad on what is now I-41 was severed in 2000.  The one last severed south of Oshkosh was in about 1997.

Thanks, but no thanks, on the mini-meet idea -- I'm shooting across Wisconsin today, and won't have any time to relax until I reach Saskatchewan next week.

But thanks to you, and Big John. on confirming that for my purposes I need not go far north of Appleton. Checking my notes, I covered US 41 from there to Green Bay (and beyond) in 2007, after it became a freeway, which for me counts as a "clinch in advance" of that part of I-41.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on June 26, 2015, 02:26:39 PM
Quote from: oscar on June 26, 2015, 03:15:17 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on June 26, 2015, 12:32:53 AM
Quote from: oscar on June 25, 2015, 10:09:40 PM
Quick and urgent question: About when was US 41 converted to freeway between Appleton and I-43 in Green Bay?  I'll be there tomorrow, and need to decide how much of US 41 I need to travel to count I-41 as clinched (by my rules). I have traveled US 41 between WI 441 and I-43, but don't remember whether it was freeway back whenever I traveled it (probably some time after 2000). I should've consulted my old road atlases, but forgot to do so before I left home this morning.

If need be, I'll take US 41 all the way up to I-43, but that would add about an hour to my trip. I know I'm missing big chunks of US 41 around Appleton and points south, so I'm going at least that far no matter what.

Wanna meet up somewhere for an impromptu mini-meet?  I don't have to be in to work until 1630.

BTW, yes, the last crossroad on what is now I-41 was severed in 2000.  The one last severed south of Oshkosh was in about 1997.

Thanks, but no thanks, on the mini-meet idea -- I'm shooting across Wisconsin today, and won't have any time to relax until I reach Saskatchewan next week.

But thanks to you, and Big John. on confirming that for my purposes I need not go far north of Appleton. Checking my notes, I covered US 41 from there to Green Bay (and beyond) in 2007, after it became a freeway, which for me counts as a "clinch in advance" of that part of I-41.

If you drive on I-41 now in Green Bay, it looks dramatically different than it did on 2007.  There's a new directional T interchange at Wis 29 and the I-43 interchange is also under construction and being built as that type of interchange also.

Fixed quote. (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4000.0) - rmf67
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: oscar on June 26, 2015, 10:59:44 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on June 26, 2015, 02:26:39 PM
If you drive on I-41 now in Green Bay, it looks dramatically different than it did on 2007.  There's a new directional T interchange at Wis 29 and the I-43 interchange is also under construction and being built as that type of interchange also.

I decided to stop short of Green Bay today (I'm now heading into Minnesota), but that kind of improvement still leaves me clinching I-41. I can get fussy at times, but not that fussy!

One major observation from my tour today:  US 41 signage in Milwaukee is confusing, though I assume it will soon be updated. Heading north from Illinois, the signs tell you US 41 follows I-94 passing downtown Milwaukee, then WI 175 (much of it non-freeway) to US 45.  Heading south on US 45, most but not all the signage tells you US 41 follows US 45 to I-894, then continuing on I-894 to I-94. The US 41 signage on the latter routing is new and often paired with I-41 signs, so I assume that is the new routing,
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on June 26, 2015, 11:32:37 PM
Quote from: oscar on June 26, 2015, 10:59:44 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on June 26, 2015, 02:26:39 PM
If you drive on I-41 now in Green Bay, it looks dramatically different than it did on 2007.  There's a new directional T interchange at Wis 29 and the I-43 interchange is also under construction and being built as that type of interchange also.

I decided to stop short of Green Bay today (I'm now heading into Minnesota), but that kind of improvement still leaves me clinching I-41. I can get fussy at times, but not that fussy!

One major observation from my tour today:  US 41 signage in Milwaukee is confusing, though I assume it will soon be updated. Heading north from Illinois, the signs tell you US 41 follows I-94 passing downtown Milwaukee, then WI 175 (much of it non-freeway) to US 45.  Heading south on US 45, most but not all the signage tells you US 41 follows US 45 to I-894, then continuing on I-894 to I-94. The US 41 signage on the latter routing is new and often paired with I-41 signs, so I assume that is the new routing,
Correct.  Also a lot of signing has been skipped due to construction (the Zoo interchange for example has a covered I-41 on a BGS approaching it southbound on said route)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on June 27, 2015, 12:00:22 AM
Quote from: oscar on June 26, 2015, 10:59:44 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on June 26, 2015, 02:26:39 PM
If you drive on I-41 now in Green Bay, it looks dramatically different than it did on 2007.  There's a new directional T interchange at Wis 29 and the I-43 interchange is also under construction and being built as that type of interchange also.

I decided to stop short of Green Bay today (I'm now heading into Minnesota), but that kind of improvement still leaves me clinching I-41. I can get fussy at times, but not that fussy!

One major observation from my tour today:  US 41 signage in Milwaukee is confusing, though I assume it will soon be updated. Heading north from Illinois, the signs tell you US 41 follows I-94 passing downtown Milwaukee, then WI 175 (much of it non-freeway) to US 45.  Heading south on US 45, most but not all the signage tells you US 41 follows US 45 to I-894, then continuing on I-894 to I-94. The US 41 signage on the latter routing is new and often paired with I-41 signs, so I assume that is the new routing,

Did you take I-41/US 45/US 10 continuation?  That part of US 10 is one of my favorite drives in the state.

And yes, US 41 is being moved off of the I-94 routing through downtown to be paired with I-41 through the metro area.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on June 27, 2015, 12:15:42 AM
I think they're doing the signing in phases. First is the right shoulder reassurance signs, which are now along the entire route. Next, in whatever order deemed fitting, is center median signage along the route, signage on intersecting routes, construction detour routes, and whatever else. This must be how they're phasing in the route changes.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hobsini2 on June 28, 2015, 01:15:05 PM
I drove on I-94 and 894 last night from Chicago. The first I-41/I-94/US 41 signs I saw was right at Wis 165. They did have the US 41 plaques replaced with I-41 plaques on the BGS at Wis 50. The reassurance signs were all done after each exit from Wis 165 to Rawson Ave. No signage as of yet on the exit ramps to 894. Only a couple of I-41/I-43/I-894/US 41 reassurance markers on 894. US 45 north of Watertown Plank Rd though did have I-41/US 41/US 45 after each exit up to where I got off at Silver Spring.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Revive 755 on July 12, 2015, 01:13:44 AM
Still no I-41 signs in Illinois as of today on US 41 or mainline I-94.  In Wisconsin, at least at WI 165 and WI 50 it appears all the I-41 signs have been placed, including some of the alternate route and trailblazing signs.  I wonder if IDOT is making Wisconsin hold off on the signing until the construction on US 41 that starts at the I-94 merge is completed?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on July 12, 2015, 11:45:19 AM
Quote from: Revive 755 on July 12, 2015, 01:13:44 AM
Still no I-41 signs in Illinois as of today on US 41 or mainline I-94.  In Wisconsin, at least at WI 165 and WI 50 it appears all the I-41 signs have been placed, including some of the alternate route and trailblazing signs.  I wonder if IDOT is making Wisconsin hold off on the signing until the construction on US 41 that starts at the I-94 merge is completed?

It seems as if WisDOT is signing in stages. So far, most of the signing has been reassurance sheild assemblies along the shoulders. Eventually, BGS assemblies, intersections and whatever else will be changed.

In a semi-related note, it appears that most of the reassurance signs of old US 41 in Milwaukee (Appleton/Lisbon/Stadium) have been switched over to WIS 175. An overhead BGS northbound on Lisbon Ave before the beginning of Appleton Ave is now sans-US 41 shield. Intersecting streets still show US 41 on approaches.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Mrt90 on July 12, 2015, 12:24:19 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on July 12, 2015, 01:13:44 AM
Still no I-41 signs in Illinois as of today on US 41 or mainline I-94.  In Wisconsin, at least at WI 165 and WI 50 it appears all the I-41 signs have been placed, including some of the alternate route and trailblazing signs.  I wonder if IDOT is making Wisconsin hold off on the signing until the construction on US 41 that starts at the I-94 merge is completed?
The Illinois signs are the ones I've been looking forward to most, but I have been disappointed daily since the I41 signs began going up everywhere else.  I really want to see how they handle the start/end of US41/I41.  They turned that whole 41/94/Russell Road area into a big mess going north, so this may just add to the confusion.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Lyon Wonder on July 12, 2015, 05:54:10 PM
IMO, WIS-175 should be extended along WIS-341 too with it's terminus at WIS-59 since the removal of US 41 and extension of WIS-175 makes WIS-341 pointless.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on July 12, 2015, 10:11:57 PM
Quote from: Lyon Wonder on July 12, 2015, 05:54:10 PM
IMO, WIS-175 should be extended along WIS-341 too with it's terminus at WIS-59 since the removal of US 41 and extension of WIS-175 makes WIS-341 pointless.

According to DOT documents, they plan on changing Miller Park Way from Wis 341 to Wis 175. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on July 12, 2015, 10:55:31 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on July 12, 2015, 10:11:57 PM

According to DOT documents, they plan on changing Miller Park Way from Wis 341 to Wis 175. 

Sweet! The first set of plans showed 341 staying put. Glad that common sense prevailed (just like the last minute change to the 70MPH zones).
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on July 13, 2015, 01:10:33 AM
According to the plans, there are supposed to be markers placed on Wis 59 at the southern terminus and it looks like on I-94 the signage will remain Miller Park Way, so it will be sparely marked.  On another note, I see that someone is disappointed with the signage at the southern terminus of I-41.  On the northern end, the only sign at that end is a long reassurance sign with I-41/US 41/US 141/L.M.Circle Tour after the Lineville Rd interchange.  There is supposed to be an overhead sign that says "Begin I-41", but as of now it is just a blank green sign.  I submitted pictures to interstate-guide and the pictures are posted if anyone wants to see what the northern terminus looks like now. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: dalemidex on July 19, 2015, 08:39:02 PM
Has anyone noticed that (at least several of) the southbound signs on 41 telling how many miles to the next cities have Milwaukee covered?  For example as you head south from Lomira it used to say  "Allenton  8" on the first line and then "Milwaukee 36" on the second line.  Now the Milwaukee line is covered up.  Sign after sign is this way.   (Note that I'm not positive that particular sign was 36 to Milwaukee, but you get the point.)  This is found on sign after sign.

If I'm not mistaken the standard in Wisconsin is to measure mileage from the center of the city, not the moment you hit the outer edge of city limits.  It's true that the new I-41 routing (following the 894 bypass) no longer passes through the downtown Marquette Interchange.  However it still seems like a poor decision.

(a) I-41 still passes through Milwaukee.  Between the initial stretch on the northwest side, the area which includes the Zoo Interchange, and the miles around the Mitchell Interchange and the airport, I-41 runs for close to ten miles within the Milwaukee civil boundaries.

(b) Prior to US-41 being routed with 94 from the Stadium Interchange east, the highway never came within 2 miles of "downtown".  So those signs on US-41 saying how many miles to Milwaukee were either not measured to downtown Milwaukee, or were referring to a distance to downtown Milwaukee which required leaving US-41.

(c) Many interstates don't pass close to the core of the city, yet there's no issue listing the number of miles to that city.

Anybody  else notice this, or know if they've boarded over Milwaukee mileage on the entire southbound stretch?  I just don't see why this is a good idea.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on July 19, 2015, 10:37:09 PM
Quite a few years that has been true, Explain it I can't, Agree with you I do.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on July 20, 2015, 01:04:38 AM
Quote from: dalemidex on July 19, 2015, 08:39:02 PM
Has anyone noticed that (at least several of) the southbound signs on 41 telling how many miles to the next cities have Milwaukee covered?  For example as you head south from Lomira it used to say  "Allenton  8" on the first line and then "Milwaukee 36" on the second line.  Now the Milwaukee line is covered up.  Sign after sign is this way.   (Note that I'm not positive that particular sign was 36 to Milwaukee, but you get the point.)  This is found on sign after sign.

If I'm not mistaken the standard in Wisconsin is to measure mileage from the center of the city, not the moment you hit the outer edge of city limits.  It's true that the new I-41 routing (following the 894 bypass) no longer passes through the downtown Marquette Interchange.  However it still seems like a poor decision.

(a) I-41 still passes through Milwaukee.  Between the initial stretch on the northwest side, the area which includes the Zoo Interchange, and the miles around the Mitchell Interchange and the airport, I-41 runs for close to ten miles within the Milwaukee civil boundaries.

(b) Prior to US-41 being routed with 94 from the Stadium Interchange east, the highway never came within 2 miles of "downtown".  So those signs on US-41 saying how many miles to Milwaukee were either not measured to downtown Milwaukee, or were referring to a distance to downtown Milwaukee which required leaving US-41.

(c) Many interstates don't pass close to the core of the city, yet there's no issue listing the number of miles to that city.

Anybody  else notice this, or know if they've boarded over Milwaukee mileage on the entire southbound stretch?  I just don't see why this is a good idea.

WisDOT also nuked 'Oshkosh' and 'Waupun' from WI 26 along US 151 in the Waupun area and I-41 in the Oshkosh area, opting for 'Rosendale', instead.  This, even though WI 26 enters both cities (the Planeview Truck Stop at I-41/WI 26 is in the City of Oshkosh).

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on July 20, 2015, 02:50:03 AM
Quote from: dalemidex on July 19, 2015, 08:39:02 PM
...
WisDOT also nuked 'Oshkosh' and 'Waupun' from WI 26 along US 151 in the Waupun area and I-41 in the Oshkosh area, opting for 'Rosendale', instead.  This, even though WI 26 enters both cities (the Planeview Truck Stop at I-41/WI 26 is in the City of Oshkosh).

Mike

I think WISDOT took those control cities down because they would prefer regional traffic to take US 151 to I-41 to go to Oshkosh and vice versa to Waupun since they're both 4 lanes.  On the DOT website, it states  "The actual travel time only increases by approximately two to three minutes due to the access controlled roadways and higher speed limits of the detour route."  I've never seen the DOT talk about the benefits of a detour route before and it confirms my theory on why those signs were changed. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on July 21, 2015, 09:51:16 AM
Agreed. The signs have actually been like that for some time now...I'm guessing that the change was made after the 151 Bypass was completed.

As for the "Milwaukee" signs - those have also been like that for a while. Not sure what the thinking was - If I'm not mistaken, the Granville interchange is actually in Milwaukee, so the road does go through there.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on July 21, 2015, 10:05:58 AM
Quote from: GeekJedi on July 21, 2015, 09:51:16 AM
Agreed. The signs have actually been like that for some time now...I'm guessing that the change was made after the 151 Bypass was completed.

As for the "Milwaukee" signs - those have also been like that for a while. Not sure what the thinking was - If I'm not mistaken, the Granville interchange is actually in Milwaukee, so the road does go through there.

Yepper, that interchange is in Milwaukee.  The Granville area is the former Granville Township, which, after about six years of litigation, was formally merged into the city in 1962.  The city limits in that area are 124th St and County Line Rd (there is a very tiny piece of Washington county at the NW corner of 124th/County Line that is also in Milwaukee).

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on July 21, 2015, 01:24:17 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on July 20, 2015, 02:50:03 AM
Quote from: dalemidex on July 19, 2015, 08:39:02 PM
...
WisDOT also nuked 'Oshkosh' and 'Waupun' from WI 26 along US 151 in the Waupun area and I-41 in the Oshkosh area, opting for 'Rosendale', instead.  This, even though WI 26 enters both cities (the Planeview Truck Stop at I-41/WI 26 is in the City of Oshkosh).

Mike

I think WISDOT took those control cities down because they would prefer regional traffic to take US 151 to I-41 to go to Oshkosh and vice versa to Waupun since they're both 4 lanes.  On the DOT website, it states  "The actual travel time only increases by approximately two to three minutes due to the access controlled roadways and higher speed limits of the detour route."  I've never seen the DOT talk about the benefits of a detour route before and it confirms my theory on why those signs were changed. 
2 to 3 minutes?

*yawn*
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on July 21, 2015, 06:11:03 PM
It does make you wonder if WIDOT would ever take the step of demoting WI-26 to a county highway north of Waupun as another step to encourage people to use the I-41/US-151 route. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: iBallasticwolf2 on July 21, 2015, 06:37:23 PM
Quote from: SSOWorld on July 21, 2015, 01:24:17 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on July 20, 2015, 02:50:03 AM
Quote from: dalemidex on July 19, 2015, 08:39:02 PM
...
WisDOT also nuked 'Oshkosh' and 'Waupun' from WI 26 along US 151 in the Waupun area and I-41 in the Oshkosh area, opting for 'Rosendale', instead.  This, even though WI 26 enters both cities (the Planeview Truck Stop at I-41/WI 26 is in the City of Oshkosh).

Mike

I think WISDOT took those control cities down because they would prefer regional traffic to take US 151 to I-41 to go to Oshkosh and vice versa to Waupun since they're both 4 lanes.  On the DOT website, it states  "The actual travel time only increases by approximately two to three minutes due to the access controlled roadways and higher speed limits of the detour route."  I've never seen the DOT talk about the benefits of a detour route before and it confirms my theory on why those signs were changed. 
2 to 3 minutes?

*yawn*

From google maps it looks like it would be more than "2 to 3 minutes" because WI 26 does seem more direct and bypasses any possible congestion in Fond du Lac. It seems to me that the largest establishment along that part of WI 26 is Rosendale which is an astounding 1 traffic light bound to make horrible backups of up to 1 minute!
Sarcasm intended.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Big John on July 21, 2015, 06:49:20 PM
^^ Traffic backs up significantly at that traffic signal during heavier traffic times.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on July 21, 2015, 11:38:37 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on July 21, 2015, 06:11:03 PM
It does make you wonder if WIDOT would ever take the step of demoting WI-26 to a county highway north of Waupun as another step to encourage people to use the I-41/US-151 route.

I don't think they will do that.  They're currently giving the road a facelift and modifying a curve and there is a digital message board just south of Oshkosh.  They've also been patrolling the road VIA airplane at times.  There is a lot of heavy traffic on Wis 26, and they realize it will stay busy.  But they would like to divert as much traffic as they can off of 26, and they're hoping people use the current detour after Wis 26 opens
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on July 22, 2015, 12:34:56 AM
North of Oshkosh the Milwaukee distance signs are still intact and are fairly new, no idea why they would be covered south of Fond Du Lac, especially since Milwaukee is being used as the control city from every interchange in De Pere south to Milwaukee
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on July 22, 2015, 07:45:06 AM
Quote from: iBallasticwolf2 on July 21, 2015, 06:37:23 PM
From google maps it looks like it would be more than "2 to 3 minutes" because WI 26 does seem more direct and bypasses any possible congestion in Fond du Lac. It seems to me that the largest establishment along that part of WI 26 is Rosendale which is an astounding 1 traffic light bound to make horrible backups of up to 1 minute!
Sarcasm intended.

It does look that way, but it's not. As someone else mentions, that light can back traffic up, plus 26 is a two lane 55 (in some parts) MPH road that even though is currently being improved is still the kind of road that you can easily find yourself behind a farm implement doing 30 MPH in an area where there is no passing for a mile or two.

Meanwhile, 151 is four lanes and 65, while I-41 is four lanes and 70.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: jreuschl on July 25, 2015, 08:47:57 PM
Wouldn't Rosendale want the additional ticket revenue? :)

SM-N910P

Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on July 26, 2015, 11:57:56 AM
They do seem to enjoy it, to the point where Rosedale has become a legendary speed trap. Another reason why I don't mind seeing people running the 151 to 41 route!  :-)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on July 26, 2015, 03:16:25 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on July 26, 2015, 11:57:56 AM
They do seem to enjoy it, to the point where Rosedale has become a legendary speed trap. Another reason why I don't mind seeing people running the 151 to 41 route!  :-)

Even if fewer people drive on Wis 26, Rosendale still has Wis 23 to patrol, that road carries about 6000 vpd, about 3000 fewer than Wis 26 but still quite a few vehicles.  Unlike Wis 26, there isn't an alternate route to avoid Rosendale. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: JREwing78 on July 27, 2015, 08:17:52 AM
The interchange they built for Hwy 26 at US-151 east of Waupun strongly suggests eventual 4-laning of Hwy 26 around Rosendale. It is way overkill for a 2-lane road. However, since the current legislature is adverse to both fuel tax hikes and additional bonding (can't say I blame them), it's going to be a while before that becomes reality.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: machias on July 28, 2015, 09:07:19 AM
I drove Appleton to Oshkosh several times last week and noticed that all of the reassurance markers have been updated with an I-41 / US 41 combo, but none of the markers at ramps or overhead signs had been updated yet.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on July 28, 2015, 09:15:08 AM
Quote from: upstatenyroads on July 28, 2015, 09:07:19 AM
I drove Appleton to Oshkosh several times last week and noticed that all of the reassurance markers have been updated with an I-41 / US 41 combo, but none of the markers at ramps or overhead signs had been updated yet.

The overhead signs at the Wis 172 interchange were updated, and the signs were also updated along the Collector/Distributor overheads along I-41 north at the Wis 29 interchange
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Icewolf on July 28, 2015, 10:17:28 AM
In the Milwaukee area, mileage markers north of the Zoo Interchange are starting to be updated with the I-41 and US 45 shields.  In addition, as part of the I-41/Appleton Ave. interchange southbound, one of the BGS after the exit ramp has been signed with WI 175; the sign assembly after this (for the reentry ramp back to I-41) still has US-41 signed for Appleton Ave.  The preceding exit signs have the US 41 shield removed.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Brandon on July 28, 2015, 10:40:03 AM
Quote from: upstatenyroads on July 28, 2015, 09:07:19 AM
I drove Appleton to Oshkosh several times last week and noticed that all of the reassurance markers have been updated with an I-41 / US 41 combo, but none of the markers at ramps or overhead signs had been updated yet.

That's about how WisDOT went about signing I-39 back in the 1990s.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on July 28, 2015, 11:04:16 AM
Quote from: Brandon on July 28, 2015, 10:40:03 AM
Quote from: upstatenyroads on July 28, 2015, 09:07:19 AM
I drove Appleton to Oshkosh several times last week and noticed that all of the reassurance markers have been updated with an I-41 / US 41 combo, but none of the markers at ramps or overhead signs had been updated yet.

That's about how WisDOT went about signing I-39 back in the 1990s.


Exactly.  It took months to change out all the signs.  Did people really think everything would be updated in just a few weeks?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on July 28, 2015, 11:56:46 AM
Quote from: upstatenyroads on July 28, 2015, 09:07:19 AM
I drove Appleton to Oshkosh several times last week and noticed that all of the reassurance markers have been updated with an I-41 / US 41 combo, but none of the markers at ramps or overhead signs had been updated yet.

EAA week?  I was on the grounds everyday doing volunteer work.  You should've said 'hello', I'd have happily hosted a mini-meet.

;-)

If that was the case, there is a temporary sign that is placed opposite the EAA grounds' main Camp Scholler campground entrance on the I-41 east frontage road (Poberezny Dr) that had a blank 'interstate' shield next to a US 41 sign directing exiting camping traffic back to the highway.  This was the case for the past two or three years.  This year, the same sign was back up, except that this time the crew who controls that sign hastily added a white '41' to the interstate shield.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi49.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff263%2Fmgk920%2FI-41CampScholler2015_zpshppp1opi.jpg&hash=1a11d02d6aa910aa1c7dc3c7c90469c82c152d99) (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/mgk920/media/I-41CampScholler2015_zpshppp1opi.jpg.html)

(That's I-41 between the sign and the car dealer in the background)

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: machias on July 28, 2015, 12:27:19 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on July 28, 2015, 11:56:46 AM
Quote from: upstatenyroads on July 28, 2015, 09:07:19 AM
I drove Appleton to Oshkosh several times last week and noticed that all of the reassurance markers have been updated with an I-41 / US 41 combo, but none of the markers at ramps or overhead signs had been updated yet.

EAA week?  I was on the grounds everyday doing volunteer work.  You should've said 'hello', I'd have happily hosted a mini-meet.

;-)

If that was the case, there is a temporary sign that is placed opposite the EAA grounds' main Camp Scholler campground entrance on the I-41 east frontage road (Poberezny Dr) that had a blank 'interstate' shield next to a US 41 sign directing exiting camping traffic back to the highway.  This was the case for the past two or three years.  This year, the same sign was back up, except that this time the crew who controls that sign hastily added a white '41' to the interstate shield.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi49.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff263%2Fmgk920%2FI-41CampScholler2015_zpshppp1opi.jpg&hash=1a11d02d6aa910aa1c7dc3c7c90469c82c152d99) (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/mgk920/media/I-41CampScholler2015_zpshppp1opi.jpg.html)

(That's I-41 between the sign and the car dealer in the background)

Mike

Yes, I flew into Oshkosh and was there Wednesday to Sunday. I worked the admissions gate as a volunteer.  I noticed that I-41 sign - I don't remember the blank interstate shield from last year but I really noticed that font in the interstate shield this year.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on July 28, 2015, 01:21:40 PM
Quote from: upstatenyroads on July 28, 2015, 12:27:19 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on July 28, 2015, 11:56:46 AM
Quote from: upstatenyroads on July 28, 2015, 09:07:19 AM
I drove Appleton to Oshkosh several times last week and noticed that all of the reassurance markers have been updated with an I-41 / US 41 combo, but none of the markers at ramps or overhead signs had been updated yet.

EAA week?  I was on the grounds everyday doing volunteer work.  You should've said 'hello', I'd have happily hosted a mini-meet.

;-)

If that was the case, there is a temporary sign that is placed opposite the EAA grounds' main Camp Scholler campground entrance on the I-41 east frontage road (Poberezny Dr) that had a blank 'interstate' shield next to a US 41 sign directing exiting camping traffic back to the highway.  This was the case for the past two or three years.  This year, the same sign was back up, except that this time the crew who controls that sign hastily added a white '41' to the interstate shield.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi49.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff263%2Fmgk920%2FI-41CampScholler2015_zpshppp1opi.jpg&hash=1a11d02d6aa910aa1c7dc3c7c90469c82c152d99) (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/mgk920/media/I-41CampScholler2015_zpshppp1opi.jpg.html)

(That's I-41 between the sign and the car dealer in the background)

Mike

Yes, I flew into Oshkosh and was there Wednesday to Sunday. I worked the admissions gate as a volunteer.  I noticed that I-41 sign - I don't remember the blank interstate shield from last year but I really noticed that font in the interstate shield this year.

If, while working the main gate, you saw a 'Cart' going by on that main road that was driven by a guy wearing a cap that was loaded with 'dreadlocks' of volunteer patches, that was me.

:cool:

Maybe next year!

:cheers:

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: DaBigE on July 28, 2015, 01:54:16 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on July 28, 2015, 11:56:46 AM
Quote from: upstatenyroads on July 28, 2015, 09:07:19 AM
I drove Appleton to Oshkosh several times last week and noticed that all of the reassurance markers have been updated with an I-41 / US 41 combo, but none of the markers at ramps or overhead signs had been updated yet.

EAA week?  I was on the grounds everyday doing volunteer work.  You should've said 'hello', I'd have happily hosted a mini-meet.

;-)

If that was the case, there is a temporary sign that is placed opposite the EAA grounds' main Camp Scholler campground entrance on the I-41 east frontage road (Poberezny Dr) that had a blank 'interstate' shield next to a US 41 sign directing exiting camping traffic back to the highway.  This was the case for the past two or three years.  This year, the same sign was back up, except that this time the crew who controls that sign hastily added a white '41' to the interstate shield.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi49.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff263%2Fmgk920%2FI-41CampScholler2015_zpshppp1opi.jpg&hash=1a11d02d6aa910aa1c7dc3c7c90469c82c152d99) (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/mgk920/media/I-41CampScholler2015_zpshppp1opi.jpg.html)

(That's I-41 between the sign and the car dealer in the background)

Mike

You beat me to the post, Mike. I saw those when I was up at EAA on Thursday. I don't recall where exactly along the frontage road it was, but one or a couple of those directional guide signs only had a US 41 shield on them and not the duals as your photo shows.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Right on Red on July 28, 2015, 08:28:03 PM
As for EAA's maps,

2013's (http://www.eaaapps.org/images/map.jpg) just has "HWY 41". I can't find 2014 maps, unforturnately. 2015 (http://www.eaa.org/~/media/files/airventure/planyourtrip/av15_visitorsmap.pdf) has "I-41", and this year's Camp Scholler map (https://www.eaa.org/~/media/files/airventure/planyourtrip/av15_campschollermap.pdf) has I-41 shields.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hobsini2 on July 29, 2015, 09:20:54 PM
I find it interesting that 2015 Camp Scholler map has temporary street names within the campground. I wonder if there are other places that do this. https://www.bing.com/maps/#Y3A9NDEuNjc3Nzk5fi04OC4xNDUxMDMmbHZsPTQmc3R5PWImcT1Pc2hrb3NoJTJDJTIwV2lzY29uc2luJTJDJTIwVW5pdGVkJTIwU3RhdGVz
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on July 29, 2015, 10:36:58 PM
Quote from: hobsini2 on July 29, 2015, 09:20:54 PM
I find it interesting that 2015 Camp Scholler map has temporary street names within the campground. I wonder if there are other places that do this. https://www.bing.com/maps/#Y3A9NDEuNjc3Nzk5fi04OC4xNDUxMDMmbHZsPTQmc3R5PWImcT1Pc2hrb3NoJTJDJTIwV2lzY29uc2luJTJDJTIwVW5pdGVkJTIwU3RhdGVz

The roadways on the entire EAA grounds are all named and these names are permanent and signed.  They are not 'official' on the city street map - some are extensions of public roads that are located off of the grounds or that have been vacated as public streets and absorbed onto the grounds, but believe me (my annual volunteer work involves essentially being a 'cab driver' on the grounds), those names are *very useful* - indeed!

:nod:

Although not shown on the Bing map, the Camp Scholler north-south 'residential' roadways are mostly numbered, they start at 1st St (closest to I-41) and go up to 61st St (closest to Knapp St).

The camp map linked above from EAA is wrong in one regard - the camping area's grid of streets now extends all the way south to Ripple Rd.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hobsini2 on July 30, 2015, 09:22:58 PM
Interesting MGK. I never used the campground since my grandparents were close enough (S Mason and Kensington) to Wittman to see the showfrom their back yard.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Right on Red on July 30, 2015, 09:37:12 PM
To answer your earlier question, last time I was there the Dodge County Fairgrounds had (permanently installed) street signs. Looks like (from some cursory Street View glances) the State Fairgrounds do this to some extent.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: DaBigE on July 30, 2015, 11:51:19 PM
Quote from: Right on Red on July 30, 2015, 09:37:12 PM
To answer your earlier question, last time I was there the Dodge County Fairgrounds had (permanently installed) street signs. Looks like (from some cursory Street View glances) the State Fairgrounds do this to some extent.

IIRC, the Washington County Fairgrounds have them too.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: US 41 on August 09, 2015, 02:25:00 PM
I drove from Terre Haute to Madison and back yesterday. On the way I went through downtown Chicago and took US 41 at the 94/41 split north of Chicago. I took US 41 to Wisconsin where it meets up with I-94. I can confirm that I-41 is signed concurrent with 94 from the Illinois Border to 894. US 41 still runs into downtown Milwaukee. However I'm guessing that will change soon since there was also a sign that said US 41 traffic follow I-41. I took a picture of the I-41 sign on the way up to Milwaukee. I would post the picture on here, but I'm not really sure how to.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on August 09, 2015, 04:41:09 PM
Quote from: US 41 on August 09, 2015, 02:25:00 PM
I drove from Terre Haute to Madison and back yesterday. On the way I went through downtown Chicago and took US 41 at the 94/41 split north of Chicago. I took US 41 to Wisconsin where it meets up with I-94. I can confirm that I-41 is signed concurrent with 94 from the Illinois Border to 894. US 41 still runs into downtown Milwaukee. However I'm guessing that will change soon since there was also a sign that said US 41 traffic follow I-41. I took a picture of the I-41 sign on the way up to Milwaukee. I would post the picture on here, but I'm not really sure how to.

I-41 is signed all the way around Milwaukee and so is US 41.  The old US 41 signs that are up into Downtown Milwaukee weren't taken down yet.  Along the Stadium Freeway and Appleton Ave, there's a mixture of US 41 and WIS 175 signs.  It can be confusing right now to see US 41 signed along 2 different routes.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on August 09, 2015, 05:05:51 PM
A few pics snapped this morning along I-41:

A BGS sighting along a soon-to-open SB stretch, between Watertown Plank Rd. and Bluemound Road:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi58.tinypic.com%2F35n7l2r.jpg&hash=d63c37aef8f5dea5c703f2df1bf53296e06ed66c)

New assembly on right shoulder, old assembly in median:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi57.tinypic.com%2Fsv6pnl.jpg&hash=3262196ad943142c8856fd5b019f5dc09d32ef0a)

And the new mileage markers, located every 2/5 of a mile:

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi58.tinypic.com%2Fdxbhco.jpg&hash=f90a00d56982ebe967041580d690b4d5d2be3e44)


(sorry for the fuzzy quality, as I was driving at the time.)

In addition, the I-41 shields on the detour assemblies around the state fairgrounds have been uncovered. No pics yet.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on August 09, 2015, 05:32:45 PM
For the love of all that is holy, please don't take pictures when you are driving.  It really isn't that crucial that we see these signs.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Stratuscaster on August 09, 2015, 09:16:05 PM
"Bypass Chicago"? That's false advertising, isn't it?

I know that's not what it means - but "Bypass" should not be listed as a control city - or similar to one.

Remove the airplane, put "BYPASS" under "SOUTH", and make "Mitchell Airport" a control city.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hobsini2 on August 09, 2015, 09:30:58 PM
Quote from: Stratuscaster on August 09, 2015, 09:16:05 PM
"Bypass Chicago"? That's false advertising, isn't it?

I know that's not what it means - but "Bypass" should not be listed as a control city - or similar to one.

Remove the airplane, put "BYPASS" under "SOUTH", and make "Mitchell Airport" a control city.
It is signed that way because 894 IS the Bypass. Chicago happens to be the control city. What they should have done us put Bypass in caps above the shields but WisDOT doesn't do that. As for the Airport, the Airplane symbol is what tells you it heads toward the Airport instead of writing it out. And Chicago is a far more important destination for 94 thru traffic.

Here's how I would do it:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1244.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fgg569%2Fhobsini2%2F41-894BYPASS%2520sign_zpsjjapynqh.png&hash=6505da13c64498dc23d7577c326a110e2191ec2e) (http://s1244.photobucket.com/user/hobsini2/media/41-894BYPASS%20sign_zpsjjapynqh.png.html)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on August 09, 2015, 10:59:14 PM
They put "Bypass" as a cardinal direction at the Mitchell NB to it.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Revive 755 on August 09, 2015, 11:14:54 PM
Quote from: Stratuscaster on August 09, 2015, 09:16:05 PM
"Bypass Chicago"? That's false advertising, isn't it?

It's north of the junction with I-43, which when used with I-39 and I-74, forms a super bypass of Chicago  :spin:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on August 10, 2015, 09:43:26 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 09, 2015, 05:32:45 PM
For the love of all that is holy, please don't take pictures when you are driving.  It really isn't that crucial that we see these signs.

My method is pretty simple. My Samsung Galaxy phone has a voice activated camera. I simply held it up and said "shoot".

But I did find this sign, on top of a few others, stashed at the Hales Corners Park n' Ride. I simply pulled in and stopped to snap.

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi60.tinypic.com%2Fdw48rd.jpg&hash=1ca3e0bfdd28dff59d9a4f4d91daecc77cdc6d1e)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on August 10, 2015, 09:48:45 AM
Quote from: Stratuscaster on August 09, 2015, 09:16:05 PM
"Bypass Chicago"? That's false advertising, isn't it?

I know that's not what it means - but "Bypass" should not be listed as a control city - or similar to one.

Remove the airplane, put "BYPASS" under "SOUTH", and make "Mitchell Airport" a control city.

The sign is appropriate, and familiar to drivers. The point of the Bypass is to direct traffic headed toward Chicago onto the road, rather than follow the much longer route of I-94 through Downtown. Some signs also feature the airplane icon, denoting Mitchell International.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on August 10, 2015, 10:13:57 AM
Quote from: FightingIrish on August 10, 2015, 09:48:45 AM
Quote from: Stratuscaster on August 09, 2015, 09:16:05 PM
"Bypass Chicago"? That's false advertising, isn't it?

I know that's not what it means - but "Bypass" should not be listed as a control city - or similar to one.

Remove the airplane, put "BYPASS" under "SOUTH", and make "Mitchell Airport" a control city.

The sign is appropriate, and familiar to drivers. The point of the Bypass is to direct traffic headed toward Chicago onto the road, rather than follow the much longer route of I-94 through Downtown. Some signs also feature the airplane icon, denoting Mitchell International.

It isn't "much longer."  The bypass is just under 10 miles.  Taking I-94 through downtown is just under 12.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on August 10, 2015, 10:27:19 AM
Quote from: FightingIrish on August 10, 2015, 09:48:45 AM
Quote from: Stratuscaster on August 09, 2015, 09:16:05 PM
"Bypass Chicago"? That's false advertising, isn't it?

I know that's not what it means - but "Bypass" should not be listed as a control city - or similar to one.

Remove the airplane, put "BYPASS" under "SOUTH", and make "Mitchell Airport" a control city.

The sign is appropriate, and familiar to drivers. The point of the Bypass is to direct traffic headed toward Chicago onto the road, rather than follow the much longer route of I-94 through Downtown. Some signs also feature the airplane icon, denoting Mitchell International.

A big part of that is the old 'US 41 through Milwaukee streets' thing - I've heard first-hand stories over the years up here in the Appleton area of locals here totally freaking out when US 41 would disappear from the now I-41 'logical' freeway routing around Milwaukee while transiting the area on their way to and from Chicagoland and beyond.  As an attempt to alleviate that, for many years now, at the north end overhead BGSes on the SB US 41/45 (now I-41) approach to the Granville interchange (WI 145 freeway split) on the Milwaukee-Menominee Falls line have also said "To I-894 Bypass/Chicago" to help with those long-distance drivers.

In the other direction, I've always disliked the use of "Fond du Lac" as the control for the NB US 45 and I-894 freeway, as it is the smallest of the 'major' cities on the US 41 (now I-41) corridor.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: roadman65 on August 10, 2015, 10:40:19 AM
Well Fond du Lac was because of carbon copying of the pre freeway days.

I hate PennDOT using "Milford" for I-84 East instead of "Newburgh, NY" or "Hartford, CT" or even "Port Jervis" I would rather see than some small borough along the path in PA that is eight miles shy of the state line which is the closest thing of significance for Milford to be used as control point.

If PA could do it, of course so is everyone else, and WI is no acception.  Heck things can change, I have seen Rocky Mount be added to I-95 south of Richmond, VA instead of "Emporia" which was previously used in the past.  So anything can happen.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on August 10, 2015, 10:45:51 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 10, 2015, 10:13:57 AM
Quote from: FightingIrish on August 10, 2015, 09:48:45 AM
Quote from: Stratuscaster on August 09, 2015, 09:16:05 PM
"Bypass Chicago"? That's false advertising, isn't it?

I know that's not what it means - but "Bypass" should not be listed as a control city - or similar to one.

Remove the airplane, put "BYPASS" under "SOUTH", and make "Mitchell Airport" a control city.

The sign is appropriate, and familiar to drivers. The point of the Bypass is to direct traffic headed toward Chicago onto the road, rather than follow the much longer route of I-94 through Downtown. Some signs also feature the airplane icon, denoting Mitchell International.

It isn't "much longer."  The bypass is just under 10 miles.  Taking I-94 through downtown is just under 12.

Try taking it through Downtown and the zipper merge during peak times, or through the Stadium Interchange on game nights.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on August 10, 2015, 10:51:52 AM
Quote from: FightingIrish on August 10, 2015, 10:45:51 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 10, 2015, 10:13:57 AM
Quote from: FightingIrish on August 10, 2015, 09:48:45 AM
Quote from: Stratuscaster on August 09, 2015, 09:16:05 PM
"Bypass Chicago"? That's false advertising, isn't it?

I know that's not what it means - but "Bypass" should not be listed as a control city - or similar to one.

Remove the airplane, put "BYPASS" under "SOUTH", and make "Mitchell Airport" a control city.

The sign is appropriate, and familiar to drivers. The point of the Bypass is to direct traffic headed toward Chicago onto the road, rather than follow the much longer route of I-94 through Downtown. Some signs also feature the airplane icon, denoting Mitchell International.

It isn't "much longer."  The bypass is just under 10 miles.  Taking I-94 through downtown is just under 12.

Try taking it through Downtown and the zipper merge during peak times, or through the Stadium Interchange on game nights.


I have taken it many times during times of non-construction.  Most of the time the bypass is faster.  However there can be traffic back ups that make the I-94 option a better one.  (This is one of my problems with this bypass...it simply isn't much of one.)

I was simply suggesting your characterization of I-94 as "much longer" isn't really true.  2 miles isn't "much longer."
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Mrt90 on August 10, 2015, 11:49:50 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 10, 2015, 10:51:52 AM
Quote from: FightingIrish on August 10, 2015, 10:45:51 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 10, 2015, 10:13:57 AM
Quote from: FightingIrish on August 10, 2015, 09:48:45 AM
Quote from: Stratuscaster on August 09, 2015, 09:16:05 PM
"Bypass Chicago"? That's false advertising, isn't it?

I know that's not what it means - but "Bypass" should not be listed as a control city - or similar to one.

Remove the airplane, put "BYPASS" under "SOUTH", and make "Mitchell Airport" a control city.

The sign is appropriate, and familiar to drivers. The point of the Bypass is to direct traffic headed toward Chicago onto the road, rather than follow the much longer route of I-94 through Downtown. Some signs also feature the airplane icon, denoting Mitchell International.

It isn't "much longer."  The bypass is just under 10 miles.  Taking I-94 through downtown is just under 12.

Try taking it through Downtown and the zipper merge during peak times, or through the Stadium Interchange on game nights.


I have taken it many times during times of non-construction.  Most of the time the bypass is faster.  However there can be traffic back ups that make the I-94 option a better one.  (This is one of my problems with this bypass...it simply isn't much of one.)

I was simply suggesting your characterization of I-94 as "much longer" isn't really true.  2 miles isn't "much longer."
If the Bypass wasn't there, the Marquette Interchange downtown would usually be a huge mess.  The way the bypass was built (going straight north/south and then turning straight east/west) it doesn't really save much distance but it typically will save some time for people just passing through the area.  And of course it makes it much better for people who are going downtown.  It was built more for that purpose (keeping people away from downtown that don't need to go downtown) than it was to save time for people just passing through. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on August 10, 2015, 12:51:53 PM
The sign crews must be making big progress in Milwaukee County.  Last week when I drove through all the signing on the interchanges was complete between the Racine/Milwaukee County Line and Illinois, with the exception of the southern terminus in Illinois, still no signs there.  Since there were only reassurance signs from that point north, I decided to take I-43 back because I was feeling tired and it's still the shortest and quickest route between Green Bay and Milwaukee.  Along I-43, the Alternate I-41 signs between the Marquette Interchange and Hwy 100 were still covered up.  Sporadically, new I-41 signs are popping up in the Green Bay area, in the last few weeks new signs have been installed along the collector/distributor lanes at the Wis 29 interchange and at the Oneida St interchange.  The new I-43 North to I-41 North ramp opened and temporary US 41 signs are used instead of I-41 signs still, probably because most of the signs in the area still say US 41.  It will be interesting to see where the END I-41 signs will be installed.  Will they be installed at the I-43 interchange, or at the Lineville Rd Interchange?  The beginning is signed at the Lineville Rd Interchange, but the End signs are supposed to be installed at the I-43 interchange.  Even though it's a difference of about 2 miles, there could be a unique situation where the start and end points at the northern end could be signed in 2 different places. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: dalemidex on August 12, 2015, 07:36:43 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on August 10, 2015, 10:40:19 AM
Well Fond du Lac was because of carbon copying of the pre freeway days.

True, however the same era had I-43 northbound from the Marquette saying "Sheboygan" for years until the mid-late 80's when they were all changed to "Green Bay" as the control city.

In one sense I suppose it's a more complicated issue on 41. 

For 43, Green Bay is the (relatively) big-city terminus, much larger than midway Sheboygan.

For 41, Oshkosh isn't much smaller than Appleton, which isn't too much smaller than Green Bay.  So seemingly they chose the first city of notable size...Fond du Lac.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on August 13, 2015, 01:44:54 AM
Quote from: dalemidex on August 12, 2015, 07:36:43 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on August 10, 2015, 10:40:19 AM
Well Fond du Lac was because of carbon copying of the pre freeway days.

True, however the same era had I-43 northbound from the Marquette saying "Sheboygan" for years until the mid-late 80's when they were all changed to "Green Bay" as the control city.

In one sense I suppose it's a more complicated issue on 41. 

For 43, Green Bay is the (relatively) big-city terminus, much larger than midway Sheboygan.

For 41, Oshkosh isn't much smaller than Appleton, which isn't too much smaller than Green Bay.  So seemingly they chose the first city of notable size...Fond du Lac.

US 141 was being constructed as a freeway to Sheboygan before I-43 was designated, which is probably why the signs used Sheboygan more in the past.  I-43 was also supposed to follow Wis 57 to Green Bay originally because it was neutral to the Lakeshore and Fox Valley, but objections and politics moved the alignment to follow US 141, and extend the freeway north of Sheboygan.  Fond Du Lac was probably chosen as the control city because of how close it is to Milwaukee, and because US 45 routes through there.  It does go through Oshkosh also, but it's not much bigger than Fond Du Lac and farther away.  I think Appleton should be the new control city listed at the Zoo Interchange for I-41 because the Appleton/Fox Cities area is the biggest primary area that I-41 serves.  I-43 is still the shortest and quickest route Green Bay from Milwaukee and traffic going to Green Bay should be encouraged to use I-43 since it is 20 miles shorter than I-41.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on August 19, 2015, 04:19:27 PM
I've noticed over the past week or two the addition of many new I-41 sign assemblies, this time on intersecting streets. Passed the signing crew truck this morning as they were putting up new aluminum assemblies on Capitol Drive in Wauwatosa.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on August 19, 2015, 07:32:14 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on August 19, 2015, 04:19:27 PM
I've noticed over the past week or two the addition of many new I-41 sign assemblies, this time on intersecting streets. Passed the signing crew truck this morning as they were putting up new aluminum assemblies on Capitol Drive in Wauwatosa.


Yep.  Just saw an I-41 sign by the 84th St. interchange.  However the I-43/I-894 sign remains on a separate sign across the street.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: marcreichman on August 22, 2015, 11:27:10 AM

Quote from: FightingIrish on August 19, 2015, 04:19:27 PM
I've noticed over the past week or two the addition of many new I-41 sign assemblies, this time on intersecting streets. Passed the signing crew truck this morning as they were putting up new aluminum assemblies on Capitol Drive in Wauwatosa.

Just came here to say this, like someone flipped a switch in Milwaukee. All the I41 stuff around me in Tosa by Watertown Plank has been uncovered, including the signage around the interchange to I41/US45.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on August 24, 2015, 04:04:00 AM
Quote from: marcreichman on August 22, 2015, 11:27:10 AM

Quote from: FightingIrish on August 19, 2015, 04:19:27 PM
I've noticed over the past week or two the addition of many new I-41 sign assemblies, this time on intersecting streets. Passed the signing crew truck this morning as they were putting up new aluminum assemblies on Capitol Drive in Wauwatosa.

Just came here to say this, like someone flipped a switch in Milwaukee. All the I41 stuff around me in Tosa by Watertown Plank has been uncovered, including the signage around the interchange to I41/US45.

Have the alternate I-41 shields along I-43 been uncovered yet and is Wis 175 fully signed along the Stadium Freeway?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on August 26, 2015, 04:46:23 PM
The amazing new full-speed curving fly-over ramp though the woods from NB I-41 to SB I-43 in the Howard Interchange in the Green Bay, WI area opens on Friday (2015-08-28).  This replaces the former 'truck eating' ramp in the original mid-1970s era interchange.

:cheers:

http://m.us41wisconsin.gov/news/alert-new-i-41-i-43-flyover-ramp-opens-friday-morning-in-brown-county

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on August 26, 2015, 07:28:20 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on August 24, 2015, 04:04:00 AM
Quote from: marcreichman on August 22, 2015, 11:27:10 AM

Quote from: FightingIrish on August 19, 2015, 04:19:27 PM
I've noticed over the past week or two the addition of many new I-41 sign assemblies, this time on intersecting streets. Passed the signing crew truck this morning as they were putting up new aluminum assemblies on Capitol Drive in Wauwatosa.

Just came here to say this, like someone flipped a switch in Milwaukee. All the I41 stuff around me in Tosa by Watertown Plank has been uncovered, including the signage around the interchange to I41/US45.

Have the alternate I-41 shields along I-43 been uncovered yet and is Wis 175 fully signed along the Stadium Freeway?

Don't know about I-43, but the signing crews have been busy signing connecting roads and uncovering many others. As for WIS 175, there was a short burst of signing along Appleton Ave and Lisbon Ave, with one sign on the Stadium Freeway. Since then, nothing. Still a mix of 175 and 41 signs. The I-41 signing activity has been pretty heavy lately, aside from  overhead BGS assemblies on the freeways.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Big John on August 28, 2015, 10:00:22 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on August 26, 2015, 04:46:23 PM
The amazing new full-speed curving fly-over ramp though the woods from NB I-41 to SB I-43 in the Howard Interchange in the Green Bay, WI area opens on Friday (2015-08-28).  This replaces the former 'truck eating' ramp in the original mid-1970s era interchange.

:cheers:

http://m.us41wisconsin.gov/news/alert-new-i-41-i-43-flyover-ramp-opens-friday-morning-in-brown-county

Mike

http://fox11online.com/news/local/green-bay/i-41i-43-interchange-now-open
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on August 29, 2015, 05:13:00 PM
Quote from: Big John on August 28, 2015, 10:00:22 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on August 26, 2015, 04:46:23 PM
The amazing new full-speed curving fly-over ramp though the woods from NB I-41 to SB I-43 in the Howard Interchange in the Green Bay, WI area opens on Friday (2015-08-28).  This replaces the former 'truck eating' ramp in the original mid-1970s era interchange.

:cheers:

http://m.us41wisconsin.gov/news/alert-new-i-41-i-43-flyover-ramp-opens-friday-morning-in-brown-county

Mike

http://fox11online.com/news/local/green-bay/i-41i-43-interchange-now-open

Note the 'SOUTH I-43' reassurance sign just after the NB Velp Ave (US 141 south) off ramp gore sign at 0:34 and 0:54, too.  At 1:27, that's looking southward on I-41 at Oneida St.

The new NB I-43 to NB US 41/141 ramp in the Howard Interchange is also complete and open.

:cool:

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: noelbotevera on August 29, 2015, 05:19:15 PM
Does it really take this long to sign a route? Four months is more than enough time.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on August 29, 2015, 05:53:41 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on August 29, 2015, 05:19:15 PM
Does it really take this long to sign a route? Four months is more than enough time.

It takes time and money to replace/add 120+ miles of signs.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on August 29, 2015, 05:56:41 PM
There were still US-16 signs in Dodge County 20 years after it was decommissioned.  Four months is nothing!
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on August 29, 2015, 05:57:24 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on August 29, 2015, 05:19:15 PM
Does it really take this long to sign a route? Four months is more than enough time.

All of the reassurance signs were installed within a week.  There's a lot of signs that need to be replaced.  From the mileage markers that are .2 miles apart, to the big BGS signs, there are quite a few.  Wisconsin is also installing a lot of alternate I-41 signs in case of an accident and that adds to the volume of signs.  The speed limit 70 signs were installed within 2 days because county highway departments installed them.  The I-41 signs are being installed by a private contractor.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Right on Red on August 29, 2015, 10:25:10 PM
Speaking of the .2 mile markers, they're up in all of Washington County now.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Mrt90 on August 30, 2015, 08:03:51 PM
I saw a new "US41 follow I41" sign going north in Kenosha County, about 3-4 miles north of the state line. 

Still nothing in Illinois.  At this point I'm assuming that the Illinois signage is the lowest priority.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on September 01, 2015, 05:05:24 AM
Quote from: Mrt90 on August 30, 2015, 08:03:51 PM
I saw a new "US41 follow I41" sign going north in Kenosha County, about 3-4 miles north of the state line. 

Still nothing in Illinois.  At this point I'm assuming that the Illinois signage is the lowest priority.

I'm assuming that the reason why the signs in Illinois aren't installed is because the state of Illinois did not provide the signs or they did not pay the contractor for the signs and installation?  On the sign plan, I noticed that the signs that are supposed to be installed in Illinois are supposed to be cut out shields with the narrower arrow signs, while all of the Wisconsin signs are one piece with the over-sized arrow signs.  It is interesting to see how the signs are being installed to each state's specifications, according to the plan.  Since the Illinois signs are specific to Illinois, I'm assuming that they have to pay for their share of the signs, and that they had input on which signs were going to be installed. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on September 01, 2015, 08:36:47 AM
Quote from: peterj920 on September 01, 2015, 05:05:24 AM
Since the Illinois signs are specific to Illinois, I'm assuming that they have to pay for their share of the signs, and that they had input on which signs were going to be installed. 

Actually, I was under the impression that WisDOT was going to pay for the signs in Illinois, and it would be customary to have them designed to IDOT specs. I don't think I've seen anything confirming that 100% though.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: silverback1065 on September 01, 2015, 09:51:45 AM
is there a reason why I-41 doesn't start at i-94 in Milwaukee? what's the point of it being cosigned all the way down to Illinois?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on September 01, 2015, 10:03:52 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on September 01, 2015, 09:51:45 AM
is there a reason why I-41 doesn't start at i-94 in Milwaukee? what's the point of it being cosigned all the way down to Illinois?


Because US-41 used to be.  Or still is.  I don't know.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: silverback1065 on September 01, 2015, 10:06:12 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 01, 2015, 10:03:52 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on September 01, 2015, 09:51:45 AM
is there a reason why I-41 doesn't start at i-94 in Milwaukee? what's the point of it being cosigned all the way down to Illinois?


Because US-41 used to be.  Or still is.  I don't know.

I guess, but that still doesn't really seem like a good reason, are they designing US 41 in the Milwaukee area? (the surface street portion)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on September 01, 2015, 10:12:05 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on September 01, 2015, 10:06:12 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 01, 2015, 10:03:52 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on September 01, 2015, 09:51:45 AM
is there a reason why I-41 doesn't start at i-94 in Milwaukee? what's the point of it being cosigned all the way down to Illinois?

Because US-41 used to be.  Or still is.  I don't know.

I guess, but that still doesn't really seem like a good reason, are they designing US 41 in the Milwaukee area? (the surface street portion)


It's on the reassurance markers that I have seen.  I think this entire thing has been screw up for years.  US-41 should have been moved off the streets of Milwaukee and onto the US-45 and I-894 freeways long ago.  Then you simply could have just replaced the US-41 designation with an I-41 designation and no one would have really noticed.  There is simply no need to have any US-41 signs between Green Bay and the Illinois border.  To me, the duplicate numbers on different shields only adds to confusion.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on September 01, 2015, 10:22:00 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on September 01, 2015, 09:51:45 AM
is there a reason why I-41 doesn't start at i-94 in Milwaukee? what's the point of it being cosigned all the way down to Illinois?

I'm guessing that it's to prevent confusion by having two different "41"'s on two different routes, or even one route that changes designations. If you think about it (other than the concurrencies) it sort of makes sense. 41 is now an interstate route from where it leaves it's surface route in Illinois to where the freeway segment ends north of Green Bay (OK, a bit before it actually ends..). So in a way, signing I-41 from just south of Illinois, and rerouting US-41 in Milwaukee, it makes one continuously signed route from Illinois to Green Bay.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: silverback1065 on September 01, 2015, 10:23:11 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 01, 2015, 10:12:05 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on September 01, 2015, 10:06:12 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 01, 2015, 10:03:52 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on September 01, 2015, 09:51:45 AM
is there a reason why I-41 doesn't start at i-94 in Milwaukee? what's the point of it being cosigned all the way down to Illinois?

Because US-41 used to be.  Or still is.  I don't know.

I guess, but that still doesn't really seem like a good reason, are they designing US 41 in the Milwaukee area? (the surface street portion)


It's on the reassurance markers that I have seen.  I think this entire thing has been screw up for years.  US-41 should have been moved off the streets of Milwaukee and onto the US-45 and I-894 freeways long ago.  Then you simply could have just replaced the US-41 designation with an I-41 designation and no one would have really noticed.  There is simply no need to have any US-41 signs between Green Bay and the Illinois border.  To me, the duplicate numbers on different shields only adds to confusion.

I agree, that segment of 41 could be WIS-175 or 341, or nothing at all. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on September 01, 2015, 10:31:28 AM
http://wigrants.gov/projects/neregion/41/docs/map-ex3.pdf

4 alternatives for naming interstate 41 were submitted to AASHTO, and all 4 routes had different locations for the southern terminus.  No explanation was given for reasoning behind each alternative, but I'm guessing the reason why I-41 was signed down to Illinois is to clear up confusion on which direction I-94 runs.  I-94 eastbound actually travels south, while I-94 west travels north.  By signing I-41 north and south, it clears up confusion on which way traffic is flowing.  Chicago is thought of as south of Milwaukee, not east and vice versa.  Also, a lot of truck traffic continues on US 41 to Chicago to avoid the tolls on I-94.  A Weigh Station just south of the split with I-94 on US 41 is very busy when open. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on September 01, 2015, 10:46:02 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on September 01, 2015, 09:51:45 AM
is there a reason why I-41 doesn't start at i-94 in Milwaukee? what's the point of it being cosigned all the way down to Illinois?

Navigation.  A common refrain that I've heard up here in the Appleton (et al), WI area for as long as I've been alive is how difficult it is for people to navigate the Milwaukee area freeways when driving between here and the Chicagoland area due to how many times the most logical routing changes its route numbers.  Having a single number (I/US 41) on that entire routing solves that problem.

I was on WisDOT's case about that as early as at least the early 1990s already ("Why not just reroute US 41 to follow the logical US 45/I-894 freeway routing?").

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on September 01, 2015, 10:48:42 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on September 01, 2015, 10:23:11 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 01, 2015, 10:12:05 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on September 01, 2015, 10:06:12 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 01, 2015, 10:03:52 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on September 01, 2015, 09:51:45 AM
is there a reason why I-41 doesn't start at i-94 in Milwaukee? what's the point of it being cosigned all the way down to Illinois?

Because US-41 used to be.  Or still is.  I don't know.

I guess, but that still doesn't really seem like a good reason, are they designing US 41 in the Milwaukee area? (the surface street portion)


It's on the reassurance markers that I have seen.  I think this entire thing has been screw up for years.  US-41 should have been moved off the streets of Milwaukee and onto the US-45 and I-894 freeways long ago.  Then you simply could have just replaced the US-41 designation with an I-41 designation and no one would have really noticed.  There is simply no need to have any US-41 signs between Green Bay and the Illinois border.  To me, the duplicate numbers on different shields only adds to confusion.

I agree, that segment of 41 could be WIS-175 or 341, or nothing at all.

The city streets routing of US 41 (north of National Ave/WI 59?) is being renumbered to WI 175.

:nod:

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: silverback1065 on September 01, 2015, 10:50:36 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on September 01, 2015, 10:48:42 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on September 01, 2015, 10:23:11 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 01, 2015, 10:12:05 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on September 01, 2015, 10:06:12 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 01, 2015, 10:03:52 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on September 01, 2015, 09:51:45 AM
is there a reason why I-41 doesn't start at i-94 in Milwaukee? what's the point of it being cosigned all the way down to Illinois?

Because US-41 used to be.  Or still is.  I don't know.

I guess, but that still doesn't really seem like a good reason, are they designing US 41 in the Milwaukee area? (the surface street portion)


It's on the reassurance markers that I have seen.  I think this entire thing has been screw up for years.  US-41 should have been moved off the streets of Milwaukee and onto the US-45 and I-894 freeways long ago.  Then you simply could have just replaced the US-41 designation with an I-41 designation and no one would have really noticed.  There is simply no need to have any US-41 signs between Green Bay and the Illinois border.  To me, the duplicate numbers on different shields only adds to confusion.

I agree, that segment of 41 could be WIS-175 or 341, or nothing at all.

The city streets routing of US 41 (north of National Ave/WI 59?) is being renumbered to WI 175.

:nod:

Mike

o ok so 41 will disappear in Illinois and reappear in green bay? is that the official end of I-41 where it meets 43 in GB?  sorry I'm not from the area, and new to this thread.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on September 01, 2015, 10:53:44 AM
US-41 was re-routed off the streets of Milwaukee as part of the I-41 approval.  So now US-41 will be duplexed with I-41 for the latter's entire routing, and reassurance markers will indicate that.  It is ridiculous.  US-41 should have simply disappeared where I-41 exists, and reappeared north of Green Bay.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on September 01, 2015, 10:59:13 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 01, 2015, 10:53:44 AM
US-41 was re-routed off the streets of Milwaukee as part of the I-41 approval.  So now US-41 will be duplexed with I-41 for the latter's entire routing, and reassurance markers will indicate that.  It is ridiculous.  US-41 should have simply disappeared where I-41 exists, and reappeared north of Green Bay.

Nearly all of the reassurance signs were changed a couple of months ago, they say "NORTH/SOUTH NORTH/SOUTH(as the case may be)/I-41 US 41".  Aside from a "US 41 follow I-41" sign at each end, that will be the only mention of 'US 41' on the routing when all of the signing work is complete.

I-41 officially runs between the Skokie Rd (US 41) split from I-94 just south of the Illinois-Wisconsin state line and the I-43 'Howard' interchange in the Green Bay area.  Note that there is an erroneous 'I-41' reassurance sign on SB US 41/141 just south of the Lineville Rd interchange (first interchange north of I-43).

Note, too, that as part of I-41's routing, there is a 'wrong-way' concurrency (second in the USA for interstates) between I-41 and I-43 in Milwaukee County.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on September 01, 2015, 11:16:42 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on September 01, 2015, 10:59:13 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 01, 2015, 10:53:44 AM
US-41 was re-routed off the streets of Milwaukee as part of the I-41 approval.  So now US-41 will be duplexed with I-41 for the latter's entire routing, and reassurance markers will indicate that.  It is ridiculous.  US-41 should have simply disappeared where I-41 exists, and reappeared north of Green Bay.

Nearly all of the reassurance signs were changed a couple of months ago, they say "NORTH/SOUTH NORTH/SOUTH(as the case may be)/I-41 US 41".  Aside from a "US 41 follow I-41" sign at each end, that will be the only mention of 'US 41' on the routing when all of the signing work is complete.

I-41 officially runs between the Skokie Rd (US 41) split from I-94 just south of the Illinois-Wisconsin state line and the I-43 'Howard' interchange in the Green Bay area.  Note that there is an erroneous 'I-41' reassurance sign on SB US 41/141 just south of the Lineville Rd interchange (first interchange north of I-43).

Note, too, that as part of I-41's routing, there is a 'wrong-way' concurrency (second in the USA for interstates) between I-41 and I-43 in Milwaukee County.

Mike



I have found numerous instances of US-41 on signs other than reassurance markers.  No BGS, but on directional signs in the Milwaukee area around I-894.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on September 01, 2015, 06:55:53 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on September 01, 2015, 10:59:13 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 01, 2015, 10:53:44 AM
US-41 was re-routed off the streets of Milwaukee as part of the I-41 approval.  So now US-41 will be duplexed with I-41 for the latter's entire routing, and reassurance markers will indicate that.  It is ridiculous.  US-41 should have simply disappeared where I-41 exists, and reappeared north of Green Bay.

Nearly all of the reassurance signs were changed a couple of months ago, they say "NORTH/SOUTH NORTH/SOUTH(as the case may be)/I-41 US 41".  Aside from a "US 41 follow I-41" sign at each end, that will be the only mention of 'US 41' on the routing when all of the signing work is complete.

I-41 officially runs between the Skokie Rd (US 41) split from I-94 just south of the Illinois-Wisconsin state line and the I-43 'Howard' interchange in the Green Bay area.  Note that there is an erroneous 'I-41' reassurance sign on SB US 41/141 just south of the Lineville Rd interchange (first interchange north of I-43).

Note, too, that as part of I-41's routing, there is a 'wrong-way' concurrency (second in the USA for interstates) between I-41 and I-43 in Milwaukee County.

Mike

There is also supposed to be a BGS that says "Begin I-41" on a sign bridge just south of the Lineville Rd Interchange, so clearly WISDOT wants to sign the route starting at that interchange, according to sign plans.  I think I-41 is being signed starting at that interchange instead of I-43 because the US 41/I-41 is being reconstructed up to Lineville Rd, and the Lineville Rd Interchange gives access to the fastest growing area in the Green Bay Metro.  I am wondering if Howard/Suamico officials requested to have the signs start from that point so they can say there's interstate access to that area. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: silverback1065 on September 01, 2015, 10:33:12 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on September 01, 2015, 06:55:53 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on September 01, 2015, 10:59:13 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on September 01, 2015, 10:53:44 AM
US-41 was re-routed off the streets of Milwaukee as part of the I-41 approval.  So now US-41 will be duplexed with I-41 for the latter's entire routing, and reassurance markers will indicate that.  It is ridiculous.  US-41 should have simply disappeared where I-41 exists, and reappeared north of Green Bay.

Nearly all of the reassurance signs were changed a couple of months ago, they say "NORTH/SOUTH NORTH/SOUTH(as the case may be)/I-41 US 41".  Aside from a "US 41 follow I-41" sign at each end, that will be the only mention of 'US 41' on the routing when all of the signing work is complete.

I-41 officially runs between the Skokie Rd (US 41) split from I-94 just south of the Illinois-Wisconsin state line and the I-43 'Howard' interchange in the Green Bay area.  Note that there is an erroneous 'I-41' reassurance sign on SB US 41/141 just south of the Lineville Rd interchange (first interchange north of I-43).

Note, too, that as part of I-41's routing, there is a 'wrong-way' concurrency (second in the USA for interstates) between I-41 and I-43 in Milwaukee County.

Mike

There is also supposed to be a BGS that says "Begin I-41" on a sign bridge just south of the Lineville Rd Interchange, so clearly WISDOT wants to sign the route starting at that interchange, according to sign plans.  I think I-41 is being signed starting at that interchange instead of I-43 because the US 41/I-41 is being reconstructed up to Lineville Rd, and the Lineville Rd Interchange gives access to the fastest growing area in the Green Bay Metro.  I am wondering if Howard/Suamico officials requested to have the signs start from that point so they can say there's interstate access to that area.

Will there be signs saying something to the effect of "I-41 ENDS US-41 North [control city]"
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: JREwing78 on September 02, 2015, 01:16:49 AM
Quote from: peterj920 on September 01, 2015, 06:55:53 PM
There is also supposed to be a BGS that says "Begin I-41" on a sign bridge just south of the Lineville Rd Interchange, so clearly WISDOT wants to sign the route starting at that interchange, according to sign plans.  I think I-41 is being signed starting at that interchange instead of I-43 because the US 41/I-41 is being reconstructed up to Lineville Rd, and the Lineville Rd Interchange gives access to the fastest growing area in the Green Bay Metro.  I am wondering if Howard/Suamico officials requested to have the signs start from that point so they can say there's interstate access to that area. 

That leads me to wonder why the designation wasn't simply extended to the US 41/141 split in Abrams, which would be a logical starting point. The road should already meet Interstate design standards (aside from that goofy weigh station in the median near Abrams).
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on September 02, 2015, 01:47:33 AM
 
[/quote]

Will there be signs saying something to the effect of "I-41 ENDS US-41 North [control city]"
[/quote]

The big BGS at the new I-43 interchange on I-41 north mainline lanes are still covered up and the road configuration is a lot different from the original sign plans.  In November, the north I-41 lanes should be completed, and some permanent signs may be installed then.  But, the southbound I-41 lanes still need to be reconstructed and the southbound traffic will need to share the northbound lanes, so not all of the permanent signs will be installed most likely.  On the BGS's in the Green Bay Area that currently have I-41 shields on them, Marinette is the control city.  I'm interested to see if the END I-41 signs will be posted at I-43, or at County M/Lineville Rd.  If I-43 is where the END signs are posted, it would be a unique situation where the beginning and the end of an interstate are marked at 2 different locations.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on September 03, 2015, 04:24:57 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on September 01, 2015, 10:48:42 AM


The city streets routing of US 41 (north of National Ave/WI 59?) is being renumbered to WI 175.

:nod:

Mike


The other day, I spotted a WIS 175 sign on National Avenue EB just before the intersection with Miller Park Way. Perhaps this means WISDOT will extend 175 to replace WIS 341. Makes sense, as I'm sure they're concerned about possible confusion.

More WIS 175 signs have gone up on Appleton Ave and Lisbon Ave and on intersecting streets over the past couple weeks, though there are still some stray US 41 signs along the route, especially on the Stadium Freeway and on I-94 BGS's near the interchange. They must be doing everything gradually to ease the transition.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: The Ghostbuster on September 03, 2015, 05:05:08 PM
I think it is a good idea to replace WIS 341 with WIS 175. Will the Miller Parkway guide signs on Interstate 94 have WIS 175 shields, or will it be like it was before, just signed Miller Parkway?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on September 03, 2015, 05:16:41 PM
I drove the Stadium Freeway north yesterday.  There is a WI-175 reassurance marker and WI-175 signs on the BGSs at the interchange with I-94.  I didn't notice any guide signs at the WI-59 (National Avenue) intersection, but I must admit I wasn't looking for them.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on September 03, 2015, 06:07:31 PM
Per the Zoo Interchange Project's Facebook page, WISDOT crews are doing an overnight closure of WB I-94 between Hawley and the Zoo to place/uncover I-41 shields on the BGS assemblies.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on September 04, 2015, 01:40:48 AM
The sign plans say that WIS 175 signs are supposed to be posted at WIS 59, and replace the WIS 341 signs at the Canal St Interchange. (WIS 341 signs were added to that interchange a few years ago along with a South 341 End 41 sign on the mainline at I-94 heading south last year)  The plan is for the BGS signs on I-94 to say WIS 175 north of I-94 and to have it say Miller Park Way with the omission of WIS 175.  I just looked at Google Streetview on National Ave and WIS 341 north, and the northbound section was actually still signed as North 41 with a North 41 reassurance shield just after the Canal St Interchange.  Surprised that the signs didn't say "TO 41" and that the Miller Park Way north was still signed North 41 after Wis 341 was designated.  On Canal St, the streetview still showed the route signed as south and north 41, (even signed South 41 to National Ave; was probably there since the road was reconstructed) but those images were from Oct 2011, and those signs were replaced with WIS 341 signs a year later.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: marcreichman on September 04, 2015, 03:40:45 AM
Onramps from State St are now signed WIS 175.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on September 04, 2015, 07:02:15 AM
Quote from: FightingIrish on September 03, 2015, 06:07:31 PM
Per the Zoo Interchange Project's Facebook page, WISDOT crews are doing an overnight closure of WB I-94 between Hawley and the Zoo to place/uncover I-41 shields on the BGS assemblies.
...which should never have been covered in the first place.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Highway63 on September 04, 2015, 11:04:30 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on September 01, 2015, 10:31:28 AM
http://wigrants.gov/projects/neregion/41/docs/map-ex3.pdf

I-94 eastbound actually travels south, while I-94 west travels north.  By signing I-41 north and south, it clears up confusion on which way traffic is flowing.  Chicago is thought of as south of Milwaukee, not east and vice versa.  Also, a lot of truck traffic continues on US 41 to Chicago to avoid the tolls on I-94.
In that case, I wish the exits would be renumbered to increase going northward like a north-south interstate, but as we've seen with I-39, it's not going to happen.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: vtk on September 04, 2015, 11:29:28 PM
Quote from: Jeff Morrison on September 04, 2015, 11:04:30 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on September 01, 2015, 10:31:28 AM
http://wigrants.gov/projects/neregion/41/docs/map-ex3.pdf

I-94 eastbound actually travels south, while I-94 west travels north.  By signing I-41 north and south, it clears up confusion on which way traffic is flowing.  Chicago is thought of as south of Milwaukee, not east and vice versa.  Also, a lot of truck traffic continues on US 41 to Chicago to avoid the tolls on I-94.
In that case, I wish the exits would be renumbered to increase going northward like a north-south interstate, but as we've seen with I-39, it's not going to happen.

That would indeed be sensible. The only reasons not to are the minor cost, and inertia.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on September 05, 2015, 10:09:21 AM
Quote from: vtk on September 04, 2015, 11:29:28 PM

That would indeed be sensible. The only reasons not to are the minor cost, and inertia.

I think it would be more confusing. I'm not of the camp that the physical direction and "posted" direction of I-94 is that confusing. It seems to have been generally OK for the past 40+ years, and with GPS units, it's largely irrelevant.

However, changing exit numbers goes well beyond just changing tabs. Businesses publish exit numbers in advertising and maps, GPS units put them in their maps, etc., etc. Other than in the mind of the road enthusiast, it ain't broke. Why "fix" it?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on September 14, 2015, 01:32:20 PM
From WisDOT:

"The I-41 conversion project has finished adding their signs in the Milwaukee area. We will now begin to use I-41 as the official NORTH-SOUTH roadway in the Zoo Interchange area."

Also looks like all of Appleton Ave and Lisbon Ave are now signed as WIS 175. They still need to change a few signs on the Stadium Freeway from US 41. Haven't been around downtown lately, so not sure if the overhead US 41 signs are still on I-94.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: marcreichman on September 14, 2015, 06:16:15 PM

Quote from: FightingIrish on September 14, 2015, 01:32:20 PM
Haven't been around downtown lately, so not sure if the overhead US 41 signs are still on I-94.

Seems like anything west of I-43 is cutover. Stuff around the lake is still signed I-94/US-41.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Henry on September 15, 2015, 11:33:12 AM
Quote from: Jeff Morrison on September 04, 2015, 11:04:30 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on September 01, 2015, 10:31:28 AM
http://wigrants.gov/projects/neregion/41/docs/map-ex3.pdf

I-94 eastbound actually travels south, while I-94 west travels north.  By signing I-41 north and south, it clears up confusion on which way traffic is flowing.  Chicago is thought of as south of Milwaukee, not east and vice versa.  Also, a lot of truck traffic continues on US 41 to Chicago to avoid the tolls on I-94.
In that case, I wish the exits would be renumbered to increase going northward like a north-south interstate, but as we've seen with I-39, it's not going to happen.
Which is why I'm disappointed that WI missed a golden opportunity to extend I-57 north from Chicago many years back because they didn't want it. At least it would've been a better fit for the Interstate to Green Bay (which is now I-43).
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Big John on September 15, 2015, 11:40:31 AM
Quote from: Henry on September 15, 2015, 11:33:12 AM
Quote from: Jeff Morrison on September 04, 2015, 11:04:30 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on September 01, 2015, 10:31:28 AM
http://wigrants.gov/projects/neregion/41/docs/map-ex3.pdf

I-94 eastbound actually travels south, while I-94 west travels north.  By signing I-41 north and south, it clears up confusion on which way traffic is flowing.  Chicago is thought of as south of Milwaukee, not east and vice versa.  Also, a lot of truck traffic continues on US 41 to Chicago to avoid the tolls on I-94.
In that case, I wish the exits would be renumbered to increase going northward like a north-south interstate, but as we've seen with I-39, it's not going to happen.
Which is why I'm disappointed that WI missed a golden opportunity to extend I-57 north from Chicago many years back because they didn't want it. At least it would've been a better fit for the Interstate to Green Bay (which is now I-43).
I-57 was the proposed number for I-43 from Milwaukee to Green Bay but Illinois blocked it as they didn't want to extend their signing.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on September 15, 2015, 12:12:11 PM
Quote from: Big John on September 15, 2015, 11:40:31 AM
Quote from: Henry on September 15, 2015, 11:33:12 AM
Quote from: Jeff Morrison on September 04, 2015, 11:04:30 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on September 01, 2015, 10:31:28 AM
http://wigrants.gov/projects/neregion/41/docs/map-ex3.pdf

I-94 eastbound actually travels south, while I-94 west travels north.  By signing I-41 north and south, it clears up confusion on which way traffic is flowing.  Chicago is thought of as south of Milwaukee, not east and vice versa.  Also, a lot of truck traffic continues on US 41 to Chicago to avoid the tolls on I-94.
In that case, I wish the exits would be renumbered to increase going northward like a north-south interstate, but as we've seen with I-39, it's not going to happen.
Which is why I'm disappointed that WI missed a golden opportunity to extend I-57 north from Chicago many years back because they didn't want it. At least it would've been a better fit for the Interstate to Green Bay (which is now I-43).
I-57 was the proposed number for I-43 from Milwaukee to Green Bay but Illinois blocked it as they didn't want to extend their signing.

The proposal for the interstate was to follow Wis 57 north of Milwaukee to Green Bay, but opposition and protests from farmers changed the route to be extended north from the US 141 freeway that ended at Sheboygan at the time. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: The Ghostbuster on September 15, 2015, 07:25:05 PM
If Interstate 57 had been extended to Green Bay along existing Interstate 94, and then on to Green Bay via present day Interstate 43, the co-currency of the two routes would have been about 102 miles. If Interstate 55 had been extended to Green Bay, as some had wanted, its co-currency with previously existing Interstates routes would have been about 96 miles. So instead of those co-currencies, we get Interstate 41 for the US 41 corridor, and Interstate 43 for the US 141 corridor. Go Figure!
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on September 15, 2015, 07:57:03 PM
The new I-41/I-43 flyover ramps just had new LED lights installed overnight.  The lighting in the I-41/Wis 29 interchange installed last year used sodium-vapor lights, so the DOT may start to use LED lights full time on freeways now (the local streets were lit with LEDs).  It seemed like WISDOT was using LED lights on local streets, but reluctant to add them to mainline freeways as of last year.  Noticed this on I-94 around the Airport Spur where the I-94 mainline was lit with sodium-vapor lights, while the Airport Spur was lit with LED's.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Big John on September 15, 2015, 08:46:51 PM
^^ When the I-43 Fox River "Frigo" or "Tower Dr" bridge in Green Bay was repaired in early 2014, the lights were replaced with LEDs.  Plus the Madison Beltline bridge over the Yahara River had their lights replaced with LEDs in the last couple years.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on September 15, 2015, 09:36:12 PM
I did notice that the Frigo Bridge lights were replaced wth LEDs after repairs, but the new lights on I-41 installed at the same time weren't. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: DaBigE on September 15, 2015, 10:11:28 PM
LEDs are WisDOT standard for virtually all lighting now, though I cannot confirm under-deck lighting or high-mast (interchange) lighting. Some projects that were previously let had change orders to switch fixtures to LED, but not all of them. Their LED unit specs allow for virtually a one-for-one replacement of HPS lighting.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Henry on September 16, 2015, 11:28:58 AM
Quote from: peterj920 on September 15, 2015, 12:12:11 PM
Quote from: Big John on September 15, 2015, 11:40:31 AM
Quote from: Henry on September 15, 2015, 11:33:12 AM
Quote from: Jeff Morrison on September 04, 2015, 11:04:30 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on September 01, 2015, 10:31:28 AM
http://wigrants.gov/projects/neregion/41/docs/map-ex3.pdf

I-94 eastbound actually travels south, while I-94 west travels north.  By signing I-41 north and south, it clears up confusion on which way traffic is flowing.  Chicago is thought of as south of Milwaukee, not east and vice versa.  Also, a lot of truck traffic continues on US 41 to Chicago to avoid the tolls on I-94.
In that case, I wish the exits would be renumbered to increase going northward like a north-south interstate, but as we've seen with I-39, it's not going to happen.
Which is why I'm disappointed that WI IL missed a golden opportunity to extend I-57 north from Chicago many years back because they didn't want it. At least it would've been a better fit for the Interstate to Green Bay (which is now I-43).
I-57 was the proposed number for I-43 from Milwaukee to Green Bay but Illinois blocked it as they didn't want to extend their signing.

The proposal for the interstate was to follow Wis 57 north of Milwaukee to Green Bay, but opposition and protests from farmers changed the route to be extended north from the US 141 freeway that ended at Sheboygan at the time. 
I knew that one of the states didn't want to extend the north-south Interstate that ends in Chicago to Milwaukee and Green Bay, and I'm now reminded just how much of an asshole-run state IL really is.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: noelbotevera on September 16, 2015, 03:33:17 PM
Quote from: Henry on September 16, 2015, 11:28:58 AM
Quote from: peterj920 on September 15, 2015, 12:12:11 PM
Quote from: Big John on September 15, 2015, 11:40:31 AM
Quote from: Henry on September 15, 2015, 11:33:12 AM
Quote from: Jeff Morrison on September 04, 2015, 11:04:30 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on September 01, 2015, 10:31:28 AM
http://wigrants.gov/projects/neregion/41/docs/map-ex3.pdf

I-94 eastbound actually travels south, while I-94 west travels north.  By signing I-41 north and south, it clears up confusion on which way traffic is flowing.  Chicago is thought of as south of Milwaukee, not east and vice versa.  Also, a lot of truck traffic continues on US 41 to Chicago to avoid the tolls on I-94.
In that case, I wish the exits would be renumbered to increase going northward like a north-south interstate, but as we've seen with I-39, it's not going to happen.
Which is why I'm disappointed that WI IL missed a golden opportunity to extend I-57 north from Chicago many years back because they didn't want it. At least it would've been a better fit for the Interstate to Green Bay (which is now I-43).
I-57 was the proposed number for I-43 from Milwaukee to Green Bay but Illinois blocked it as they didn't want to extend their signing.

The proposal for the interstate was to follow Wis 57 north of Milwaukee to Green Bay, but opposition and protests from farmers changed the route to be extended north from the US 141 freeway that ended at Sheboygan at the time. 
I knew that one of the states didn't want to extend the north-south Interstate that ends in Chicago to Milwaukee and Green Bay, and I'm now reminded just how much of an asshole-run state IL really is.
They try their best to hide it to the normal Joe, but no credit for that.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on September 16, 2015, 04:31:53 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on September 16, 2015, 03:33:17 PM
Quote from: Henry on September 16, 2015, 11:28:58 AM
Quote from: peterj920 on September 15, 2015, 12:12:11 PM
Quote from: Big John on September 15, 2015, 11:40:31 AM
Quote from: Henry on September 15, 2015, 11:33:12 AM
Quote from: Jeff Morrison on September 04, 2015, 11:04:30 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on September 01, 2015, 10:31:28 AM
http://wigrants.gov/projects/neregion/41/docs/map-ex3.pdf

I-94 eastbound actually travels south, while I-94 west travels north.  By signing I-41 north and south, it clears up confusion on which way traffic is flowing.  Chicago is thought of as south of Milwaukee, not east and vice versa.  Also, a lot of truck traffic continues on US 41 to Chicago to avoid the tolls on I-94.
In that case, I wish the exits would be renumbered to increase going northward like a north-south interstate, but as we've seen with I-39, it's not going to happen.
Which is why I'm disappointed that WI IL missed a golden opportunity to extend I-57 north from Chicago many years back because they didn't want it. At least it would've been a better fit for the Interstate to Green Bay (which is now I-43).
I-57 was the proposed number for I-43 from Milwaukee to Green Bay but Illinois blocked it as they didn't want to extend their signing.

The proposal for the interstate was to follow Wis 57 north of Milwaukee to Green Bay, but opposition and protests from farmers changed the route to be extended north from the US 141 freeway that ended at Sheboygan at the time. 
I knew that one of the states didn't want to extend the north-south Interstate that ends in Chicago to Milwaukee and Green Bay, and I'm now reminded just how much of an asshole-run state IL really is.
They try their best to hide it to the normal Joe, but no credit for that.

The US 12 Freeway ending at the Illinois state line also shows that Illinois did not want to cooperate with Wisconsin
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Brandon on September 16, 2015, 04:55:56 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on September 16, 2015, 04:31:53 PM
The US 12 Freeway ending at the Illinois state line also shows that Illinois did not want to cooperate with Wisconsin

IDOT (and their predecessor IDPW) did not play nice with other state DOTs.  It's a miracle, actually, that I-80/94 was improved, and the new I-70 bridge was built.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on September 16, 2015, 08:44:11 PM
Quote from: Brandon on September 16, 2015, 04:55:56 PM
IDOT (and their predecessor IDPW) did not play nice with other state DOTs.  It's a miracle, actually, that I-80/94 was improved, and the new I-70 bridge was built.

I still don't quite understand the "do not play nice with other state DOT's" thing. Do people think they sit around trying to find ways to screw other DOT's? I gotta believe it's really more of a case of inertia than anything else. What possible motivation would a body like a DOT have to purposely not "play nice". I hear that a lot about the lack of I-41 signing in IL. I keep hearing "IDOT wants nothing to do with it" or "they're telling WisDOT to screw off" or whatever. Really? Does less than a mile of signing make a difference in their world, or is it really just bureaucratic inertia taking hold?

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Rothman on September 16, 2015, 09:56:17 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on September 16, 2015, 08:44:11 PM
Quote from: Brandon on September 16, 2015, 04:55:56 PM
IDOT (and their predecessor IDPW) did not play nice with other state DOTs.  It's a miracle, actually, that I-80/94 was improved, and the new I-70 bridge was built.

I still don't quite understand the "do not play nice with other state DOT's" thing. Do people think they sit around trying to find ways to screw other DOT's?

It's really wacky why some across-border state projects fly through (NY and VT -- Crown Point Bridge and work around Rouses Point) and others do not (NY and PA work on Upper Delaware interstate bridges).  It really comes to how invested both states are in the projects -- which leads to the best defined interstate agreements -- but that investment is highly variable. 

I know in the case of the Upper Delaware interstate bridges that NYSDOT has been waiting around for PennDOT to do its part -- for years.  I think these projects are back on the program in future years -- again -- so we'll see what happens now.  Not sure what incentive PennDOT needs; maybe NY will close the bridges down?  Maybe that won't even matter because they don't have very high traffic counts?  I dunno.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on September 16, 2015, 11:18:40 PM
I think MNDOT and WISDOT do an excellent job of coordinating projects.  In Duluth/Superior, MNDOT is in charge of the Blatnik Bridge, while WISDOT is in charge of the Bong Bridge.  The MN 36/WIS 64 bridge in Stillwater was also collaborated well.  When the speed limit on I-94 was raised to 70, MNDOT raised the speed limit to 70 across the border within a day.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Brandon on September 17, 2015, 10:05:59 AM
Quote from: GeekJedi on September 16, 2015, 08:44:11 PM
Quote from: Brandon on September 16, 2015, 04:55:56 PM
IDOT (and their predecessor IDPW) did not play nice with other state DOTs.  It's a miracle, actually, that I-80/94 was improved, and the new I-70 bridge was built.

I still don't quite understand the "do not play nice with other state DOT's" thing. Do people think they sit around trying to find ways to screw other DOT's? I gotta believe it's really more of a case of inertia than anything else. What possible motivation would a body like a DOT have to purposely not "play nice". I hear that a lot about the lack of I-41 signing in IL. I keep hearing "IDOT wants nothing to do with it" or "they're telling WisDOT to screw off" or whatever. Really? Does less than a mile of signing make a difference in their world, or is it really just bureaucratic inertia taking hold?

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

Oh, I don't.  When I say they don't play nice, it has nothing to do with malice, but with a sheer lack of interest on the part of IDOT.  They just don't seem very interested in working with other DOTs all the time.  They could've answered WisDOT on extending I-55 or I-57, but never seemed interested enough to actually do anything about it.

On the other hand, IowaDOT did tell IDOT to go screw over switching I-80 and I-74 in the Quad Cities.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: roadman65 on September 17, 2015, 10:27:20 AM
Quote from: GeekJedi on September 16, 2015, 08:44:11 PM
Quote from: Brandon on September 16, 2015, 04:55:56 PM
IDOT (and their predecessor IDPW) did not play nice with other state DOTs.  It's a miracle, actually, that I-80/94 was improved, and the new I-70 bridge was built.

I still don't quite understand the "do not play nice with other state DOT's" thing. Do people think they sit around trying to find ways to screw other DOT's? I gotta believe it's really more of a case of inertia than anything else. What possible motivation would a body like a DOT have to purposely not "play nice". I hear that a lot about the lack of I-41 signing in IL. I keep hearing "IDOT wants nothing to do with it" or "they're telling WisDOT to screw off" or whatever. Really? Does less than a mile of signing make a difference in their world, or is it really just bureaucratic inertia taking hold?

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
First of all it makes no sense to even sign I-41 anyway in Illinois being it ends abruptly at no other interstate.  Yes, maybe IDOT should have renumbered I-294 as I-41, which would make sense, but Wisconsin should have just created I-41 to be between Milwaukee and Green Bay as its overlap south of Milwaukee is totally useless!

Yes, its to link the two disjointed US 41 segments now so that Route 41 can still go between Miami and Copper Harbor with two designations like some state roads in Florida have a county road with the same number connecting the two state segments, however US 41 could still be on I-94 as it was between Illinois and the I-43/ I-894 interchange as with one interstate number there is enough for interstate funding from Washington.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Brandon on September 17, 2015, 10:31:45 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on September 17, 2015, 10:27:20 AM
Yes, its to link the two disjointed US 41 segments now so that Route 41 can still go between Miami and Copper Harbor with two designations like some state roads in Florida have a county road with the same number connecting the two state segments, however US 41 could still be on I-94 as it was between Illinois and the I-43/ I-894 interchange as with one interstate number there is enough for interstate funding from Washington.

Actually, they're signed concurrently as {I-41}{US-41} on the reassurance signage and at many interchanges.  Thus, there really is no gap.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on September 17, 2015, 10:51:18 AM
Quote from: Brandon on September 17, 2015, 10:31:45 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on September 17, 2015, 10:27:20 AM
Yes, its to link the two disjointed US 41 segments now so that Route 41 can still go between Miami and Copper Harbor with two designations like some state roads in Florida have a county road with the same number connecting the two state segments, however US 41 could still be on I-94 as it was between Illinois and the I-43/ I-894 interchange as with one interstate number there is enough for interstate funding from Washington.

Actually, they're signed concurrently as {I-41}{US-41} on the reassurance signage and at many interchanges.  Thus, there really is no gap.

Also, there are two '[US 41] Follow [I-41]' overhead BGSes on NB I-41/94/US 41 near the state line and two of them on SB I-41/US 41/45 in the Granville interchange area in far northwest Milwaukee.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Henry on September 17, 2015, 11:39:18 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on September 17, 2015, 10:27:20 AM
Quote from: GeekJedi on September 16, 2015, 08:44:11 PM
Quote from: Brandon on September 16, 2015, 04:55:56 PM
IDOT (and their predecessor IDPW) did not play nice with other state DOTs.  It's a miracle, actually, that I-80/94 was improved, and the new I-70 bridge was built.

I still don't quite understand the "do not play nice with other state DOT's" thing. Do people think they sit around trying to find ways to screw other DOT's? I gotta believe it's really more of a case of inertia than anything else. What possible motivation would a body like a DOT have to purposely not "play nice". I hear that a lot about the lack of I-41 signing in IL. I keep hearing "IDOT wants nothing to do with it" or "they're telling WisDOT to screw off" or whatever. Really? Does less than a mile of signing make a difference in their world, or is it really just bureaucratic inertia taking hold?

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
First of all it makes no sense to even sign I-41 anyway in Illinois being it ends abruptly at no other interstate.  Yes, maybe IDOT should have renumbered I-294 as I-41, which would make sense, but Wisconsin should have just created I-41 to be between Milwaukee and Green Bay as its overlap south of Milwaukee is totally useless!
Given that IDOT would not extend I-55/I-57 to Milwaukee, I don't see it routing I-41 down I-294 anytime soon. But it would be nice to have that as a western bypass of Chicagoland.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Mrt90 on September 17, 2015, 01:07:18 PM
Quote from: Henry on September 17, 2015, 11:39:18 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on September 17, 2015, 10:27:20 AM
Quote from: GeekJedi on September 16, 2015, 08:44:11 PM
Quote from: Brandon on September 16, 2015, 04:55:56 PM
IDOT (and their predecessor IDPW) did not play nice with other state DOTs.  It's a miracle, actually, that I-80/94 was improved, and the new I-70 bridge was built.

I still don't quite understand the "do not play nice with other state DOT's" thing. Do people think they sit around trying to find ways to screw other DOT's? I gotta believe it's really more of a case of inertia than anything else. What possible motivation would a body like a DOT have to purposely not "play nice". I hear that a lot about the lack of I-41 signing in IL. I keep hearing "IDOT wants nothing to do with it" or "they're telling WisDOT to screw off" or whatever. Really? Does less than a mile of signing make a difference in their world, or is it really just bureaucratic inertia taking hold?

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
First of all it makes no sense to even sign I-41 anyway in Illinois being it ends abruptly at no other interstate.  Yes, maybe IDOT should have renumbered I-294 as I-41, which would make sense, but Wisconsin should have just created I-41 to be between Milwaukee and Green Bay as its overlap south of Milwaukee is totally useless!
Given that IDOT would not extend I-55/I-57 to Milwaukee, I don't see it routing I-41 down I-294 anytime soon. But it would be nice to have that as a western bypass of Chicagoland.
It would have to be routed down I-94 first to get to I-294, since I-294 begins/ends 25 miles from the US41/I-94 split.  Sorry, pet peeve of mine.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on September 18, 2015, 12:46:47 AM
Quote from: Mrt90 on September 17, 2015, 01:07:18 PM
Quote from: Henry on September 17, 2015, 11:39:18 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on September 17, 2015, 10:27:20 AM
Quote from: GeekJedi on September 16, 2015, 08:44:11 PM
Quote from: Brandon on September 16, 2015, 04:55:56 PM
IDOT (and their predecessor IDPW) did not play nice with other state DOTs.  It's a miracle, actually, that I-80/94 was improved, and the new I-70 bridge was built.

I still don't quite understand the "do not play nice with other state DOT's" thing. Do people think they sit around trying to find ways to screw other DOT's? I gotta believe it's really more of a case of inertia than anything else. What possible motivation would a body like a DOT have to purposely not "play nice". I hear that a lot about the lack of I-41 signing in IL. I keep hearing "IDOT wants nothing to do with it" or "they're telling WisDOT to screw off" or whatever. Really? Does less than a mile of signing make a difference in their world, or is it really just bureaucratic inertia taking hold?

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
First of all it makes no sense to even sign I-41 anyway in Illinois being it ends abruptly at no other interstate.  Yes, maybe IDOT should have renumbered I-294 as I-41, which would make sense, but Wisconsin should have just created I-41 to be between Milwaukee and Green Bay as its overlap south of Milwaukee is totally useless!
Given that IDOT would not extend I-55/I-57 to Milwaukee, I don't see it routing I-41 down I-294 anytime soon. But it would be nice to have that as a western bypass of Chicagoland.
It would have to be routed down I-94 first to get to I-294, since I-294 begins/ends 25 miles from the US41/I-94 split.  Sorry, pet peeve of mine.

As I mentioned in previous posts, I'd almost route 'I-41' to replace I-94 through Chicago while rerouting I-94 to replace I-294 around Chicago.  Have 'I-41' (temporarily?) end at I-80/94 in Lansing, IL, with the option kept open to continue it southward via IL 394 to potentially ultimately end at I-24 just south of Hopkinsville, KY via the US 41 corridor.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on September 18, 2015, 12:56:46 AM
A couple of I-41 updates here in the Appleton, WI area.

- New overhead BGSes are being installed over SB I-41 in the construction zone between Prospect Ave (County 'BB') and US 10/WI 441 (Bridgeview interchange).  One set went up a couple of days ago and another set is scheduled to go up after midnight Friday.  Yes, this requires overnight full lane closures on I-41. 

And yes, 'I-41' shields are on them.   :cool:

- A long-term ramp closure detour on local streets in the area of the US 10/WI 441 'Bridgeview' interchange is marked by contractor-installed I-41 signs.  They are on SB County 'CB' and EB County 'II' (Winchester Rd), marking the detour for the closed EB US 10 to SB I-41 ramp.

- NB I-41 to EB US 10/WI 441 ramp traffic is being permanently shifted onto the new ramp for that move *tonight* (Thursday, 2015-09-17), EB US 10 has a full-lane closure for that work.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Highway63 on September 18, 2015, 02:35:08 AM
I logged on just now to say what I'd seen in Appleton, and I got beaten to the punch by less than an hour.

I finished a 1000-mile trip to Door County yesterday and traveled "I-41" from Green Bay to Oshkosh. The speed limit is 70, which perhaps is the most notable indicator right now that it's an interstate. Lots of construction at the I-43/41 interchange. Going southbound, the first I-41 shield was between the Lineville Road exit and I-43, and there were plenty of I-41/US 41 pairs after exits. However, the only overhead (on a BGS) I-41 shield I saw is exactly the one mgk920 is talking about. I took a picture but I think it's out of focus (haven't looked yet). All BGSs north of there including in Green Bay only had US 41, but because of the construction half the SB BGSs in the Green Bay area are temporary anyway. I looked back while driving and there were some NB BGSs in Green Bay with I-41, usually on the left-most side as a pull-through.

I saw the "Detour South I-41" signs on BB and II, but I could not take pictures because it was dark and I was tired. There's a different sign issue worth noting nearby: On SB WI 76 approaching US 10, the US 10 signs are WI 10 instead.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on September 18, 2015, 03:24:58 AM
Quote from: Jeff Morrison on September 18, 2015, 02:35:08 AM
I logged on just now to say what I'd seen in Appleton, and I got beaten to the punch by less than an hour.

I finished a 1000-mile trip to Door County yesterday and traveled "I-41" from Green Bay to Oshkosh. The speed limit is 70, which perhaps is the most notable indicator right now that it's an interstate. Lots of construction at the I-43/41 interchange. Going southbound, the first I-41 shield was between the Lineville Road exit and I-43, and there were plenty of I-41/US 41 pairs after exits. However, the only overhead (on a BGS) I-41 shield I saw is exactly the one mgk920 is talking about. I took a picture but I think it's out of focus (haven't looked yet). All BGSs north of there including in Green Bay only had US 41, but because of the construction half the SB BGSs in the Green Bay area are temporary anyway. I looked back while driving and there were some NB BGSs in Green Bay with I-41, usually on the left-most side as a pull-through.

I saw the "Detour South I-41" signs on BB and II, but I could not take pictures because it was dark and I was tired. There's a different sign issue worth noting nearby: On SB WI 76 approaching US 10, the US 10 signs are WI 10 instead.

The BGSs at I-41/Wis 172 were the first I-41 signs to be installed in May.  As soon as one was installed, I sent a picture to the webmaster here, and can be seen on the I-41 interstate-guide page, along with other pictures I submitted.  There's also 2 signs on the Northbound I-41 C/D ramps between Wis 54 and Wis 29.  They were put up about 2 months ago.  The other interchange to just get I-41 signs in Green Bay is the Oneida St Interchange.  The finishing touches are being applied to Oneida St underneath I-41, and some new signs were installed.  The sign crews right now are probably somewhere in Washington or Dodge Counties right now working their way north. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Henry on September 18, 2015, 01:01:07 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on September 18, 2015, 12:46:47 AM
Quote from: Mrt90 on September 17, 2015, 01:07:18 PM
Quote from: Henry on September 17, 2015, 11:39:18 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on September 17, 2015, 10:27:20 AM
Quote from: GeekJedi on September 16, 2015, 08:44:11 PM
Quote from: Brandon on September 16, 2015, 04:55:56 PM
IDOT (and their predecessor IDPW) did not play nice with other state DOTs.  It's a miracle, actually, that I-80/94 was improved, and the new I-70 bridge was built.

I still don't quite understand the "do not play nice with other state DOT's" thing. Do people think they sit around trying to find ways to screw other DOT's? I gotta believe it's really more of a case of inertia than anything else. What possible motivation would a body like a DOT have to purposely not "play nice". I hear that a lot about the lack of I-41 signing in IL. I keep hearing "IDOT wants nothing to do with it" or "they're telling WisDOT to screw off" or whatever. Really? Does less than a mile of signing make a difference in their world, or is it really just bureaucratic inertia taking hold?

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
First of all it makes no sense to even sign I-41 anyway in Illinois being it ends abruptly at no other interstate.  Yes, maybe IDOT should have renumbered I-294 as I-41, which would make sense, but Wisconsin should have just created I-41 to be between Milwaukee and Green Bay as its overlap south of Milwaukee is totally useless!
Given that IDOT would not extend I-55/I-57 to Milwaukee, I don't see it routing I-41 down I-294 anytime soon. But it would be nice to have that as a western bypass of Chicagoland.
It would have to be routed down I-94 first to get to I-294, since I-294 begins/ends 25 miles from the US41/I-94 split.  Sorry, pet peeve of mine.

As I mentioned in previous posts, I'd almost route 'I-41' to replace I-94 through Chicago while rerouting I-94 to replace I-294 around Chicago.  Have 'I-41' (temporarily?) end at I-80/94 in Lansing, IL, with the option kept open to continue it southward via IL 394 to potentially ultimately end at I-24 just south of Hopkinsville, KY via the US 41 corridor.

Mike
I'm all for that too, but it's straying a bit far into fictional territory; and we've discussed it there anyway. (https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=10096.msg263168#msg263168)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Highway63 on September 25, 2015, 12:43:13 AM
Quote from: Jeff Morrison on September 18, 2015, 02:35:08 AM
However, the only overhead (on a BGS) I-41 shield I saw is exactly the one mgk920 is talking about. I took a picture but I think it's out of focus (haven't looked yet).
I was right. It's out of focus.  :crazy: The I-41/US 41 pair I stopped to photograph is good though.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on September 27, 2015, 03:04:02 AM
New southbound on ramp from Velp Ave to I-41 South just opened.  The ramp is about 10 feet higher than the current roadway is, and merges with the mainline at Memorial Drive where construction is complete.  The new northbound lanes are also elevated higher, and the current mainline where the new southbound lanes will be looks like a trench right now.  In the beginning of November, traffic will be switched to the northbound lanes, and that area will be raised and worked on.  The I-41 south to I-43 south, I-41 south mainline, and Velp Ave are the only stretches where construction needs to start.  Around Lombardi Ave, noise barrier work continues and the mainline looks graded and ready for paving.  I don't think they will start the paving until the noise barriers are complete.  More BGSs were also replaced with I-41 in the Wis 29 interchange area Friday night.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on September 28, 2015, 01:59:51 AM
Quote from: Jeff Morrison on September 25, 2015, 12:43:13 AM
Quote from: Jeff Morrison on September 18, 2015, 02:35:08 AM
However, the only overhead (on a BGS) I-41 shield I saw is exactly the one mgk920 is talking about. I took a picture but I think it's out of focus (haven't looked yet).
I was right. It's out of focus.  :crazy: The I-41/US 41 pair I stopped to photograph is good though.

I'll be out getting decent shots of those new BGSes within the next few days.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Big John on September 30, 2015, 01:44:32 PM
I drove south down US 45 to Oshkosh today.  The southbound BGS's on US 45 have the new interstate shield on them.  I then took the TOTSO ramp to stay on US 45 into Oshkosh, then saw the other US 41 signs had not been converted yet to the roundabouts.  The overhead northbound BGS had not been changed either at the first NB roundabout.

Another thing I noticed is that there are Alternate US 41 signs posted on the city streets in Oshkosh.  Not sure if there is any intention of changing those signs too.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on September 30, 2015, 08:38:58 PM
The alternate US 41 signs will get replaced also.  That's part of the reason why it's taking so long to replace all of the signs.  All the remaining BGSs on mainline I-41 were changed over in the Green Bay Area last week.  Green Bay is supposed to be the last place where the signs are being changed over, but I-41 signs pop up sporadically at different times.  An I-41/US 141 south sign was posted on the loop ramp from I-43 south to I-41 south in June, despite the fact that the sign will be useless after November, when the ramp permanently closes and the new ramp won't have access to US 141 south. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on October 01, 2015, 07:55:51 AM
I drove up through the area yesterday (then ventured all the way up to Menominee). I will say that it seems like a mistake to not run I-41 all the way to the Abrams split. That seems like a much more natural termination point, as well as a logical "restart" of US-41. It's not like it would have cost all that much to change the signs between Lineville Rd. and Abrams!
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on October 05, 2015, 07:29:34 AM
Drove I-41 from Fond Du Lac to Milwaukee yesterday and went to Miller Park.  Here is what I saw.

All of the I-41 signs have been posted at all interchanges from Fond Du Lac south.

Starting at the Washington County Line, new mile markers are posted every .2 miles with the new I-41 logo

The road was resurfaced in Dodge County, except around the WIS 49 interchange where the concrete was diamond ground. 

The Milwaukee mileage signs on the BGSs are still mysteriously covered up

I-41 was backed up at the Richfield Interchange because a small bridge is being replaced with a box culvert.  If there's a large backup on a Sunday, it must be really bad during the week. 

After seeing WIS 175 signs posted south of I-94, can officially say that WIS 341 has been replaced with WIS 175.  Between WIS 59 and I-94, there are 2 WIS 175 reassurance signs, but there aren't any south of I-94.  National Ave and Canal St sign WIS 175 at the interchanges.  In the Miller Park parking lot, there is a WIS 341 and TO 41 sign that hasn't been replaced.  It may have been forgotten about since it's in the parking lot. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on October 06, 2015, 12:13:10 AM
The overhead BGSes on I-41 by Fox River Mall in Appleton were 'updated' during major overnight lane closures this past Friday (2015-10-02) night.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on October 06, 2015, 05:04:36 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on October 06, 2015, 12:13:10 AM
The overhead BGSes on I-41 by Fox River Mall in Appleton were 'updated' during major overnight lane closures this past Friday (2015-10-02) night.

Mike

With the updating complete in Green Bay last week, all of the BGSs are updated along the I-41 mainline with the exception of mile markers in certain areas.  Are they in the process of being updated in the Fox Valley right now?  Signs at interchanges and "TO 41" signs are all that is left to update.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on October 06, 2015, 10:41:03 AM
Quote from: peterj920 on October 06, 2015, 05:04:36 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on October 06, 2015, 12:13:10 AM
The overhead BGSes on I-41 by Fox River Mall in Appleton were 'updated' during major overnight lane closures this past Friday (2015-10-02) night.

Mike

With the updating complete in Green Bay last week, all of the BGSs are updated along the I-41 mainline with the exception of mile markers in certain areas.  Are they in the process of being updated in the Fox Valley right now?  Signs at interchanges and "TO 41" signs are all that is left to update.

I have not been through the I-41/WI 441 'Northeast' interchange in Appleton in over a week, so I'm not sure on what's been going on there.  Remember that there are no conventional overhead BGSes on I-41 at that interchange (except for the small one on the French Rd bridge over SB I-41), only on WI 441's approach.

I've seen no signs of changes on any of the cross street/road approaches to I-41 nor with the little signs in the median.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on October 06, 2015, 08:07:56 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on October 05, 2015, 07:29:34 AM

After seeing WIS 175 signs posted south of I-94, can officially say that WIS 341 has been replaced with WIS 175.  Between WIS 59 and I-94, there are 2 WIS 175 reassurance signs, but there aren't any south of I-94.  National Ave and Canal St sign WIS 175 at the interchanges.  In the Miller Park parking lot, there is a WIS 341 and TO 41 sign that hasn't been replaced.  It may have been forgotten about since it's in the parking lot.

I'm not so sure about that. There are signs on each direction of National Ave (WIS 59) prior to the intersection that say "to 94/North 175". In addition, on NB Miller Park Way prior to the intersection, a directional for E/W WIS 59 and straight ahead arrow for WIS 341. Signage on I-94 approaches only show 175 for the northbound Stadium Freeway, but no designation for the part between I-94 and WIS 59. Therefore, my guess is that part of the road is still officially (unsigned) 341, while 175 ends at the Stadium Interchange.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on October 06, 2015, 08:40:17 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on October 06, 2015, 08:07:56 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on October 05, 2015, 07:29:34 AM

After seeing WIS 175 signs posted south of I-94, can officially say that WIS 341 has been replaced with WIS 175.  Between WIS 59 and I-94, there are 2 WIS 175 reassurance signs, but there aren't any south of I-94.  National Ave and Canal St sign WIS 175 at the interchanges.  In the Miller Park parking lot, there is a WIS 341 and TO 41 sign that hasn't been replaced.  It may have been forgotten about since it's in the parking lot.

I'm not so sure about that. There are signs on each direction of National Ave (WIS 59) prior to the intersection that say "to 94/North 175". In addition, on NB Miller Park Way prior to the intersection, a directional for E/W WIS 59 and straight ahead arrow for WIS 341. Signage on I-94 approaches only show 175 for the northbound Stadium Freeway, but no designation for the part between I-94 and WIS 59. Therefore, my guess is that part of the road is still officially (unsigned) 341, while 175 ends at the Stadium Interchange.


Except as Peter says, there are two reassurance markers.  (Which I have seen as well.)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on October 06, 2015, 09:27:32 PM
The sign for Wis 341 on north Miller Park Way could have been forgotten about, just like the Wis 341 and TO 41 signs in the Miller Park general parking lot.  Wis 175 is fully signed in both directions at the Canal St interchange.  It took about 13 years to take down the south US 41 signs at the Canal St interchange, even though it was 13 years since US 41 was rerouted along I-94 and off of the Stadium South. It can still be viewed on street view and has a 2012 date.  About a year after that, it was finally changed to Wis 341, and recently it was changed to Wis 175.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on October 06, 2015, 09:36:37 PM
I just drove the Stadium Freeway south from Lisbon to National a few days ago and actually didn't see ANY 175 signage southbound. Not sure about northbound though.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on October 07, 2015, 04:22:17 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on October 06, 2015, 10:41:03 AM
Quote from: peterj920 on October 06, 2015, 05:04:36 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on October 06, 2015, 12:13:10 AM
The overhead BGSes on I-41 by Fox River Mall in Appleton were 'updated' during major overnight lane closures this past Friday (2015-10-02) night.

Mike

With the updating complete in Green Bay last week, all of the BGSs are updated along the I-41 mainline with the exception of mile markers in certain areas.  Are they in the process of being updated in the Fox Valley right now?  Signs at interchanges and "TO 41" signs are all that is left to update.

I have not been through the I-41/WI 441 'Northeast' interchange in Appleton in over a week, so I'm not sure on what's been going on there.  Remember that there are no conventional overhead BGSes on I-41 at that interchange (except for the small one on the French Rd bridge over SB I-41), only on WI 441's approach.

I've seen no signs of changes on any of the cross street/road approaches to I-41 nor with the little signs in the median.

Update, as of Tuesday (2015-10-06) afternoon, the overhead BGSes on NB WI 441 approaching I-41 (Northeast interchange) have been updated, but the approach BGS on the side of WI 441 by Northland Ave (County 'OO') has not.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on October 07, 2015, 09:09:21 AM
Quote from: FightingIrish on October 06, 2015, 09:36:37 PM
I just drove the Stadium Freeway south from Lisbon to National a few days ago and actually didn't see ANY 175 signage southbound. Not sure about northbound though.

The only 175 South signage is at the Canal St interchange.  There are reassurance signs northbound. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on October 07, 2015, 02:42:27 PM
WisDOT sign contractor crews were out changing the green-backed street level signs at I-41/College Ave (WI 125) in Appleton while I was driving around at work a short while ago.  They were overlaying the new I-41 shields over the old US 41 ones on those signs.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on October 07, 2015, 09:38:30 PM
Drove I-41 between Green Bay and WIS 26 in Oshkosh and walked the Lake Butte Des Mortes Causeway.  Obervations:

Green signs at interchanges were retrofitted with I-41 shields.  This includes signs at roundabout gore points, overheads and conventional interchanges like the College Ave interchange that Mike saw. 

I'm assuming there will be new mile markers in the median with I-41 shields installed soon.  Currently, there aren't any mile markers posted between WIS 26 and Breezewood Lane, including the standard green mile markers.  I'm assuming that WISDOT didn't want to install them until the I-41 designation was official. 

The trail along the east side of the Lake Butte Des Mortes Causeway is about 1.5 miles long, and connects with the Wiouwash Trail at the north end by a boat sales place, and a sidewalk along WIS 21.  There aren't any signs that recognize the trail or guide people to park.  I parked at the cul de sac at Marine Drive.  There are 3 bridges, and the concrete railings are sculpted and painted with fire, water, and half circles that are supposed to represent earth.  There are also stations that recognize each Native American tribe in Wisconsin.  Right before the approach to the main channel bridge, there is also a gravel trail that splits off and travels down toward the water.  They both turn west, then dead end once the trail is on the other side of the I-41 main channel bridge.  There are 10 bridge piers, and all of them have extensive artwork of fish and plants.  They can only be viewed by boaters boating underneath the bridge or trail users using the gravel path that goes underneath the bridge.  Personally, I think they are a big waste of money since few people see them.  While I walked it, a biker passed about every 10 minutes and I was the only runner/walker.  I'm guessing this is because the trail doesn't connect with any pedestrian friendly areas and the trail is very noisy since only a concrete barrier separates the trail with the traffic.  On the west side of I-41 along Lake Butte Des Mortes Drive, I saw a parking lot with about 10 cars for the Wiouwash Trail.  I'm guessing more people use that instead of the causeway because it's a lot quieter and not along a busy freeway.  From what I observed, the Causeway trail gets very little use, and I would suggest putting up signs along US 45 and WIS 21 guiding people where to park if they want to try and increase usage. 

Two days ago, I drove I-41 between US 151 and Milwaukee, along with the stadium south freeway where I saw WIS 175 signs where all of the signing was complete. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on October 08, 2015, 07:39:34 AM
Once you get north of the West Bend spur, it looks like as soon as you're off the freeway, US-41 "disappears" from the signage. For example, along WI-67 and WI-28, it's all standalone I-41 signs up to the interchange and "Alternate I-41" signs along WI-175. Milwaukee County seems to be an outlier with the "dual 41" markers. My theory (based simply on many of the US-41 shields not being part of the "main" assemblies along the route) is that the US-41 signage for the most part is meant to be temporary in Milwaukee county, and will eventually be scaled back once drivers are used to the change, and we'll see it more as a hidden route, like US-12 and I-94 up in Minnesota.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: noelbotevera on October 08, 2015, 07:49:16 AM
Quote from: GeekJedi on October 08, 2015, 07:39:34 AM
Once you get north of the West Bend spur, it looks like as soon as you're off the freeway, US-41 "disappears" from the signage. For example, along WI-67 and WI-28, it's all standalone I-41 signs up to the interchange and "Alternate I-41" signs along WI-175. Milwaukee County seems to be an outlier with the "dual 41" markers. My theory (based simply on many of the US-41 shields not being part of the "main" assemblies along the route) is that the US-41 signage for the most part is meant to be temporary in Milwaukee county, and will eventually be scaled back once drivers are used to the change, and we'll see it more as a hidden route, like US-12 and I-94 up in Minnesota.
US 12 is signed along I-94. US 41 is still signed along I-41, but Green Bay and Milwaukee still have US 41 fully signed.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: invincor on October 08, 2015, 09:02:39 AM
Quote from: noelbotevera on October 08, 2015, 07:49:16 AM
Quote from: GeekJedi on October 08, 2015, 07:39:34 AM
Once you get north of the West Bend spur, it looks like as soon as you're off the freeway, US-41 "disappears" from the signage. For example, along WI-67 and WI-28, it's all standalone I-41 signs up to the interchange and "Alternate I-41" signs along WI-175. Milwaukee County seems to be an outlier with the "dual 41" markers. My theory (based simply on many of the US-41 shields not being part of the "main" assemblies along the route) is that the US-41 signage for the most part is meant to be temporary in Milwaukee county, and will eventually be scaled back once drivers are used to the change, and we'll see it more as a hidden route, like US-12 and I-94 up in Minnesota.
US 12 is signed along I-94. US 41 is still signed along I-41, but Green Bay and Milwaukee still have US 41 fully signed.

Going westbound, US 12 joins onto I-94 at I-94's mile marker 4, at the Somerset exit.  I-94 and US 12 are then openly signed by Wisconsin from there to the state line (along with WIS 35 which also joins on between mile markers 3 and 1).  Once you cross the bridge and enter Minnesota, only I-94 is signed.  Shortly after you clear the MN 95 exit for Stillwater, there is a single sign that says {12} FOLLOW (94).  (only with real shields instead of my attempt to recreate them in ASCII characters here)   You then don't see any sign of US 12 again until you reach downtown Minneapolis and the point where it peels off to follow I-394 west, where Minnesota again hides it as soon as you're through the interchange, until it becomes the sole highway as I-394 terminates at the interchange with I-494. 

I wish someone would tell Google Maps about this.  It continues to call out directions as though you're on US 12 alone and not I-94 from exit 3 to I-494!  Oh wait, I did tell them.  A year ago.  And again since then.  And still they haven't fixed it. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on October 08, 2015, 11:31:04 AM
The plan all along was to sign US 41 along the mainline only, and all of the reassurance signs still have US 41 signs north of Milwaukee.  Minnesota doesn't sign US 12 or US 53 along I-94 at all past the "follow" signs, but once someone enters the freeway, there is an I-41/US 41 reassurance sign, even north of the US 45 split.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on October 08, 2015, 12:05:08 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on October 08, 2015, 07:49:16 AM
Quote from: GeekJedi on October 08, 2015, 07:39:34 AM
Once you get north of the West Bend spur, it looks like as soon as you're off the freeway, US-41 "disappears" from the signage. For example, along WI-67 and WI-28, it's all standalone I-41 signs up to the interchange and "Alternate I-41" signs along WI-175. Milwaukee County seems to be an outlier with the "dual 41" markers. My theory (based simply on many of the US-41 shields not being part of the "main" assemblies along the route) is that the US-41 signage for the most part is meant to be temporary in Milwaukee county, and will eventually be scaled back once drivers are used to the change, and we'll see it more as a hidden route, like US-12 and I-94 up in Minnesota.
US 12 is signed along I-94. US 41 is still signed along I-41, but Green Bay and Milwaukee still have US 41 fully signed.

US 12 is NOT signed along I-94 in Minnesota. And I'm talking about US-41 signage off the mainline, which in many cases is no longer signed US-41, just I-41.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on October 08, 2015, 12:30:45 PM
Quote from: GeekJedi on October 08, 2015, 12:05:08 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on October 08, 2015, 07:49:16 AM
Quote from: GeekJedi on October 08, 2015, 07:39:34 AM
Once you get north of the West Bend spur, it looks like as soon as you're off the freeway, US-41 "disappears" from the signage. For example, along WI-67 and WI-28, it's all standalone I-41 signs up to the interchange and "Alternate I-41" signs along WI-175. Milwaukee County seems to be an outlier with the "dual 41" markers. My theory (based simply on many of the US-41 shields not being part of the "main" assemblies along the route) is that the US-41 signage for the most part is meant to be temporary in Milwaukee county, and will eventually be scaled back once drivers are used to the change, and we'll see it more as a hidden route, like US-12 and I-94 up in Minnesota.
US 12 is signed along I-94. US 41 is still signed along I-41, but Green Bay and Milwaukee still have US 41 fully signed.

US 12 is NOT signed along I-94 in Minnesota. And I'm talking about US-41 signage off the mainline, which in many cases is no longer signed US-41, just I-41.

What's also interesting is that those same "follow" signs are being placed at some major interchanges.  I've seen "US 41 Follow I-41" signs at the Mitchell Interchange, and at the WIS 145 south interchange.  There's one that is supposed to be posted along US 45 right before the I-41 interchange.  WISDOT will at least give the reassurance signs along the mainline where MNDOT won't even acknowledge US 12 and US 52 at all.  The longest unsigned US highway that shares a concurrency with an interstate highway has to be US 52 between Jamestown, ND and St. Paul, MN.  There's a couple of US 52 signs along I-94 in Jamestown, but then US 52 isn't signed at all and there isn't a "US 52 follow I-94" sign.  Even though US 41 isn't signed at interchanges, the signage is still better than those 2 concurrencies. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Milwaukee, WY on October 08, 2015, 03:13:27 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on October 08, 2015, 12:30:45 PMThe longest unsigned US highway that shares a concurrency with an interstate highway has to be US 52 between Jamestown, ND and St. Paul, MN.  There's a couple of US 52 signs along I-94 in Jamestown, but then US 52 isn't signed at all and there isn't a "US 52 follow I-94" sign.  Even though US 41 isn't signed at interchanges, the signage is still better than those 2 concurrencies. 

Could be. That brings to mind US 87 along I-25 in Colorado. There might only be two or three signs at all in Colorado for US 87.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: noelbotevera on October 08, 2015, 05:52:52 PM
Quote from: Milwaukee, WY on October 08, 2015, 03:13:27 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on October 08, 2015, 12:30:45 PMThe longest unsigned US highway that shares a concurrency with an interstate highway has to be US 52 between Jamestown, ND and St. Paul, MN.  There's a couple of US 52 signs along I-94 in Jamestown, but then US 52 isn't signed at all and there isn't a "US 52 follow I-94" sign.  Even though US 41 isn't signed at interchanges, the signage is still better than those 2 concurrencies. 

Could be. That brings to mind US 87 along I-25 in Colorado. There might only be two or three signs at all in Colorado for US 87.
None in Colorado. Not sure if it's between the state line and Raton. Wyoming likes to sign US 87 this way and that.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on October 08, 2015, 06:55:57 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on October 08, 2015, 12:30:45 PMThe longest unsigned US highway that shares a concurrency with an interstate highway has to be US 52 between Jamestown, ND and St. Paul, MN.  There's a couple of US 52 signs along I-94 in Jamestown, but then US 52 isn't signed at all and there isn't a "US 52 follow I-94" sign.  Even though US 41 isn't signed at interchanges, the signage is still better than those 2 concurrencies. 

There are a few US 52 shields in Fargo as well around the I-29 interchange.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: I-39 on October 08, 2015, 08:45:15 PM
Does anyone know what the status of the I-41/US 41 project in the Green Bay and Appleton areas is following the budget cuts? Is it still on track to be finished in 2017?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on October 08, 2015, 10:09:55 PM
I-41 in Green Bay will finish next year on time.  The project in Oshkosh has been done for 2 years.  I drive I-41 in the Green Bay Area and the project is almost done.  All of the major bridges are complete, and all of the old pavement is ripped up.  The inside lanes are complete from Oneida-Mason st, and paving has started this month on the outside lanes.  It will be interesting to see if some of the new lanes open before winter.  The only reason why the south I-43 to I-41 south flyover won't open until next year is because the I-41 south mainline needs to be reconstructed in the area, along with the left exit from I-41 south to I-43 south, which will be ground level.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on October 19, 2015, 12:29:11 PM
It's interesting to finally see I-41 replace US-45 on the VMS boards...

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mukwonagoweather.com%2Fi43vms.png&hash=e5db4dc4b543a65f171cee8f1ecfadd66e05fa3c)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on October 20, 2015, 03:48:18 AM
Quote from: GeekJedi on October 19, 2015, 12:29:11 PM
It's interesting to finally see I-41 replace US-45 on the VMS boards...

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mukwonagoweather.com%2Fi43vms.png&hash=e5db4dc4b543a65f171cee8f1ecfadd66e05fa3c)

BTW, I noticed a couple of days ago that WisDOT has updated all of their freeway cam online feeds to reflect 'I-41'.

Also, I caught a sign crew changing the non-green sideroad signs on College Ave (WI 125) here in the Appleton area late this morning. All of the little blue median signs in the Appleton area are now updated, too.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on October 20, 2015, 04:03:56 PM
The new northbound lanes on I-41 in the I-43 interchange area were opened this morning, along with the US 141/Velp Ave north on ramp.  On Friday, the southbound I-41 traffic will be shifted to the northbound lanes, and the I-41 south to I-43 south, I-43 north to I-41 south, and the south I-41 to US 141/Velp Ave off ramp will be closed until next year for reconstruction.  I-43 will most likely be detoured along I-41 and Wis 172, which is going to increase traffic along those routes.  For I-43 north to I-41 south, the detour will be to exit off of Lineville Rd, turn around and head south on I-41.  When that section is finished, the I-41 project should be complete. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: fuller523 on October 20, 2015, 08:39:05 PM
I noticed that on my drive into work on the Rock Fwy.  The same thing is on I-94 EB in Brookfield, I-41 is replacing US-45 on all VMS signs.  Local traffic reports are still referring to the highway as "45".

Also found this story on FOX6.  Not sure if DOT stating that the bypass is officially I-41 is a precursor towards the end of I-894 or just being technical.
http://fox6now.com/2015/08/04/gradual-transition-half-of-signage-for-new-i-41-is-placed-its-going-to-be-a-little-strange-at-first/
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on October 20, 2015, 09:16:00 PM
Quote from: fuller523 on October 20, 2015, 08:39:05 PM
I noticed that on my drive into work on the Rock Fwy.  The same thing is on I-94 EB in Brookfield, I-41 is replacing US-45 on all VMS signs.  Local traffic reports are still referring to the highway as "45".

Also found this story on FOX6.  Not sure if DOT stating that the bypass is officially I-41 is a precursor towards the end of I-894 or just being technical.
http://fox6now.com/2015/08/04/gradual-transition-half-of-signage-for-new-i-41-is-placed-its-going-to-be-a-little-strange-at-first/

That news story on FOX 6 is inaccurate.  US 41 shouldn't have an "X" over it, and runs concurrent with I-41.  They should mention that US 41 is being rerouted to be concurrent with the new I-41, and being removed from the Stadium North Freeway and Appleton Ave.  Over time, I-41 should catch on, but US 45 hasn't changed at all so referring to that highway is still accurate. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: silverback1065 on October 20, 2015, 09:23:43 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on October 20, 2015, 09:16:00 PM
Quote from: fuller523 on October 20, 2015, 08:39:05 PM
I noticed that on my drive into work on the Rock Fwy.  The same thing is on I-94 EB in Brookfield, I-41 is replacing US-45 on all VMS signs.  Local traffic reports are still referring to the highway as "45".

Also found this story on FOX6.  Not sure if DOT stating that the bypass is officially I-41 is a precursor towards the end of I-894 or just being technical.
http://fox6now.com/2015/08/04/gradual-transition-half-of-signage-for-new-i-41-is-placed-its-going-to-be-a-little-strange-at-first/

That news story on FOX 6 is inaccurate.  US 41 shouldn't have an "X" over it, and runs concurrent with I-41.  They should mention that US 41 is being rerouted to be concurrent with the new I-41, and being removed from the Stadium North Freeway and Appleton Ave.  Over time, I-41 should catch on, but US 45 hasn't changed at all so referring to that highway is still accurate.

All that being true, but the average driver doesn't really understand secret cosigning.  They think US 41 doesn't exist anymore there, but it does. Didn't know about the lowest number rule for the main route when you cosign multiple highways. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on October 21, 2015, 06:57:25 PM
I still think that at some point WisDOT plans on removing the US-41 shields around Milwaukee. Many of the assemblies I've seen have I-41, I-894, and US-45 on one assembly, and US-41 on a standalone post. In many places US-41 is completely removed and replaced with I-41 assemblies.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on October 21, 2015, 10:37:02 PM
It appears that WisDOT has now completed the signing upgrades here in the Appleton, WI metro area.

I saw the contractor crews out over the past few days as they were doing their thing.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on October 22, 2015, 01:08:24 AM
Quote from: mgk920 on October 21, 2015, 10:37:02 PM
It appears that WisDOT has now completed the signing upgrades here in the Appleton, WI metro area.

I saw the contractor crews out over the past few days as they were doing their thing.

Mike

Crews should be finishing in Green Bay soon.  All green signs are changed over except at Shawano Ave and Wis 29 interchanges.  All permanent BGS on the I-41 mainline are changed over. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on October 23, 2015, 11:16:15 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on October 07, 2015, 09:09:21 AM
Quote from: FightingIrish on October 06, 2015, 09:36:37 PM
I just drove the Stadium Freeway south from Lisbon to National a few days ago and actually didn't see ANY 175 signage southbound. Not sure about northbound though.

The only 175 South signage is at the Canal St interchange.  There are reassurance signs northbound.

Adding an update here, as I noticed not one, but two reassurance shields for 175 going northbound past National Ave. (WIS 59) last week.

In addition, those WIS 341 signs on EB Canal St. just south of the stadium have been replaced by WIS 175 signs. Verified this last night. It appears that WIS 341 has vanished into memory, as WIS 175 now runs all the way to National.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on October 24, 2015, 10:38:43 AM
Saw this from Fox Cities area residents on Facebook. :-D

(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ssoworld.org%2Fpics%2Fbttfus41.jpg&hash=acb26ff243d324bb9de94519c29ac32bf9d4167e)

They did look at it correctly (disregarding I-41)
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Highway63 on October 25, 2015, 09:52:50 PM
Quote from: FightingIrish on October 23, 2015, 11:16:15 PM
In addition, those WIS 341 signs on EB Canal St. just south of the stadium have been replaced by WIS 175 signs. Verified this last night. It appears that WIS 341 has vanished into memory, as WIS 175 now runs all the way to National.
I will work on getting 175 extended down 341 to 59 in the mapping collection then.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on November 06, 2015, 02:40:29 AM
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5664/22199510693_7af48e12cd_k_d.jpg)

New Begin I-41 sign installed yesterday just south of Hwy M/Lineville Rd.  Still no "End I-41" sign.  I'm assuming it will be posted near the Lineville Rd interchange since I-41 is being signed through the I-43 interchange.  The BGS on I-43 has a new I-41 shield that replaced the US 41 shield, and there's a North I-41 sign at the interchange.  I submitted the photo to the webmaster so it can be displayed on interstate-guide.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on November 06, 2015, 03:23:59 AM
^^
Now that's interesting!

:nod:

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on November 06, 2015, 04:56:39 AM
ok, now the politicians are just showing off! :banghead:
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Mrt90 on November 06, 2015, 10:59:17 AM
Driving to work this morning, south on I-41/I-94 to Illinois, I was very surprised to see an "end I-41" sign at the state line.  Is that a mistake or did the plan to run it to the US41/I-94 split in Illinois change?


Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on November 06, 2015, 01:11:19 PM
I'm guessing it's a classic case of Illinois not wanting to cooperate with Wisconsin.  Illinois probably didn't want to pay for the signs, so the end point was marked at the state line instead.  The north end is being marked at Hwy M/Lineville Rd instead of I-43, so the north end is changed from what was originally was stated as well.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on November 06, 2015, 03:51:26 PM
Quote from: Mrt90 on November 06, 2015, 10:59:17 AM
Driving to work this morning, south on I-41/I-94 to Illinois, I was very surprised to see an "end I-41" sign at the state line.  Is that a mistake or did the plan to run it to the US41/I-94 split in Illinois change?




I noticed that today as well. My guess is that while they may ultimately put the signs at the 41/94 split, they probably needed to get a sign up ASAP. As for Illinois not cooperating, IIRC, Wisconsin had the signage in their plans, so it was going to be on WisDOT's tab.

As a side note, it does appear that WisDOT is tweaking the signage along the route. They've already changed some of the approach assemblies that originally had I-41/I-94/US-41 signs to just I-41/I-94 assemblies. I know I sound like a broken record, but I think ultimately they're going to remove most of the US-41 signs along the route and do a "silent" concurrency.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: The Ghostbuster on November 06, 2015, 05:06:51 PM
Does anyone know if there are any parts of the corridor that do not have Interstate 41 signage?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on November 06, 2015, 05:42:38 PM
In the last week, sign crews have been working in Green Bay.  The "Begin I-41" BGS I posted earlier today went up yesterday.  Most of the signs are posted and changed over.  At US 141/Velp Ave and Lineville Rd, there aren't any signs at those interchanges.  There also isn't an "End I-41" sign posted yet.  I'm including Lineville Rd because the begin point is clearly being signed right after that interchange, and I-41 is signed through the I-43 interchange.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on November 07, 2015, 12:15:08 AM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on November 06, 2015, 05:06:51 PM
Does anyone know if there are any parts of the corridor that do not have Interstate 41 signage?

The NB reassurance sign at Winchester Rd (Winnebago County 'II') has not yet been changed.  However, it is in the US 10/WI 441 construction zone, so it may be waiting for the upgrade project to be completed.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Mrt90 on November 07, 2015, 03:43:42 PM
I commented yesterday on the "end I-41" signs at the state line.

On the way home, I noticed the overhead sign going north at the 94/41 merge now says I-41.

Today, I was on Russell Road (in Illinois between the state line and the 94/41 merge) and the signs indicate an entrance to I-41 North. (There is no southbound access to 94/41 directly from Russell.)

So the way it is currently signed it appears that I-41 going north begins at the 94/41 merge so about a mile of I-41 North is in Illinois, but going south I-41 ends at the state line. Perhaps that is less confusing than putting End I-41 signs right at the exit for US41?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on November 10, 2015, 05:39:37 PM
A little note, there is also a '[US 41]/Follow/[I-41]' BGS on eastbound US 10 on its approach to the I-41/WI 441 'Bridgeview' interchange between Appleton and Neenah.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on November 21, 2015, 08:12:37 PM
It looks like they've finished up with the resurfacing of I-41 around Lomira. That was the source of a lot of backups over the summer - glad they're done!
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on November 22, 2015, 12:59:24 AM
Quote from: GeekJedi on November 21, 2015, 08:12:37 PM
It looks like they've finished up with the resurfacing of I-41 around Lomira. That was the source of a lot of backups over the summer - glad they're done!

I drove it last weekend, the concrete on the 1980s-era reroute section for that interchange at WI 49 was diamond ground and the rest of the Dodge County part was resurfaced.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on November 22, 2015, 08:29:43 AM
Looks like they did some guardrail replacement too.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on January 28, 2016, 02:02:03 AM
The final bridge beams on the I-41 project are being placed tonight in Howard.  The years long project in Green Bay should finally start wrapping up this year. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: The Ghostbuster on January 28, 2016, 04:18:06 PM
I went to Strugeon Bay with my mother and stepfather right after Christmas for one week. I saw my first Interstate 41 signs on that trip, and I think the road should have become an Interstate a long time ago. Of course the freeway conversion of the entire corridor wasn't completed until 2001, so it may have been impractical.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: skluth on January 30, 2016, 03:50:29 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 28, 2016, 04:18:06 PM
I went to Strugeon Bay with my mother and stepfather right after Christmas for one week. I saw my first Interstate 41 signs on that trip, and I think the road should have become an Interstate a long time ago. Of course the freeway conversion of the entire corridor wasn't completed until 2001, so it may have been impractical.

I don't think many people object to it being an interstate. The idiocy of choosing I-41 as the number while also keeping US 41 is what's annoying. I realize it's between I-39 and I-43. But they should have decommissioned US 41 then from the state line to the Keweenaw to get rid of the concurrency. Or something.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on January 30, 2016, 07:12:34 PM
Quote from: skluth on January 30, 2016, 03:50:29 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 28, 2016, 04:18:06 PM
I went to Strugeon Bay with my mother and stepfather right after Christmas for one week. I saw my first Interstate 41 signs on that trip, and I think the road should have become an Interstate a long time ago. Of course the freeway conversion of the entire corridor wasn't completed until 2001, so it may have been impractical.

I don't think many people object to it being an interstate. The idiocy of choosing I-41 as the number while also keeping US 41 is what's annoying. I realize it's between I-39 and I-43. But they should have decommissioned US 41 then from the state line to the Keweenaw to get rid of the concurrency. Or something.


I like the number.  It not only fits the grid, but has been the actual number of the highway since its inception.  I would have just had US-41 as an unsigned concurrency - disappears at the IL line and reappears north of Green Bay.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on January 30, 2016, 09:32:29 PM
Took until this weekend for me to lay eyes on I-41 shields.  Neat.
Got to use the new NB->WB flyover at the Zoo Interchange.  Not a bad view from up there.  I was surprised to see it still exiting from the left.  I guess that's how the construction staging worked out.

While I don't like that I-894 has remained, I do notice one minor reason for keeping it.  The exit numbers.  They would have to be renumbered if/when that 3di bites the dust.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on January 30, 2016, 10:51:24 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on January 30, 2016, 09:32:29 PM
Took until this weekend for me to lay eyes on I-41 shields.  Neat.
Got to use the new NB->WB flyover at the Zoo Interchange.  Not a bad view from up there.  I was surprised to see it still exiting from the left.  I guess that's how the construction staging worked out.

While I don't like that I-894 has remained, I do notice one minor reason for keeping it.  The exit numbers.  They would have to be renumbered if/when that 3di bites the dust.

A new N-S I-41 mainline through the Zoo interchange is under construction, it will cut through its middle and the NB-WB ramp will be diverging from the right when all is complete.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: jreuschl on January 31, 2016, 12:12:32 AM
Quote from: skluth on January 30, 2016, 03:50:29 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 28, 2016, 04:18:06 PM
I went to Strugeon Bay with my mother and stepfather right after Christmas for one week. I saw my first Interstate 41 signs on that trip, and I think the road should have become an Interstate a long time ago. Of course the freeway conversion of the entire corridor wasn't completed until 2001, so it may have been impractical.

I don't think many people object to it being an interstate. The idiocy of choosing I-41 as the number while also keeping US 41 is what's annoying. I realize it's between I-39 and I-43. But they should have decommissioned US 41 then from the state line to the Keweenaw to get rid of the concurrency. Or something.
Should have made it I-43W

SM-N910P

Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on January 31, 2016, 03:15:39 AM
Quote from: skluth on January 30, 2016, 03:50:29 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 28, 2016, 04:18:06 PM
I went to Strugeon Bay with my mother and stepfather right after Christmas for one week. I saw my first Interstate 41 signs on that trip, and I think the road should have become an Interstate a long time ago. Of course the freeway conversion of the entire corridor wasn't completed until 2001, so it may have been impractical.

I don't think many people object to it being an interstate. The idiocy of choosing I-41 as the number while also keeping US 41 is what's annoying. I realize it's between I-39 and I-43. But they should have decommissioned US 41 then from the state line to the Keweenaw to get rid of the concurrency. Or something.

The problem is that they would have had to get Michigan on board with that, which considering US 41 is the most important N-S highway in the UP they might not have been so willing to accept the idea.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on January 31, 2016, 09:46:51 AM
Quote from: jreuschl on January 31, 2016, 12:12:32 AM
Quote from: skluth on January 30, 2016, 03:50:29 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 28, 2016, 04:18:06 PM
I went to Strugeon Bay with my mother and stepfather right after Christmas for one week. I saw my first Interstate 41 signs on that trip, and I think the road should have become an Interstate a long time ago. Of course the freeway conversion of the entire corridor wasn't completed until 2001, so it may have been impractical.

I don't think many people object to it being an interstate. The idiocy of choosing I-41 as the number while also keeping US 41 is what's annoying. I realize it's between I-39 and I-43. But they should have decommissioned US 41 then from the state line to the Keweenaw to get rid of the concurrency. Or something.
Should have made it I-43W



Too confusing.  The two E/W instances remaining are splits that go through two twin cities.  They don't begin and end in the same cities.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: US 41 on January 31, 2016, 08:37:22 PM
I don't understand what is so bad or confusing about I-41. It fits perfectly in the grid and it runs concurrent with US 41 the entire way (except for maybe a few miles in Milwaukee). Regardless of what you call the road it is still 41.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on January 31, 2016, 08:49:15 PM
Quote from: US 41 on January 31, 2016, 08:37:22 PM
I don't understand what is so bad or confusing about I-41. It fits perfectly in the grid and it runs concurrent with US 41 the entire way (except for maybe a few miles in Milwaukee). Regardless of what you call the road it is still 41.

It actually runs concurrently with US-41 for its entire length now that US-41 has been re-routed.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mrose on February 01, 2016, 12:22:31 AM
I think of it like a British or Australian motorway changing grade, like going from A20 to M20 and then back to A20. US 41 to I-41 back to US 41.

Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: brycecordry on February 01, 2016, 12:32:35 AM
If my master interstate plan went through, most of I-41 from Fond du Lac to its northern end would be a part of my new I-45 extension. With such a small portion not overlapping another interstate, the Milwaukee-Fond du Lac section could be I-194 (unless IDOT, InDOT, and KYTC could be persuaded to extend I-41 down south to Evansville, and Hopkinsville, KY).
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on February 01, 2016, 04:26:16 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on January 30, 2016, 07:12:34 PM
Quote from: skluth on January 30, 2016, 03:50:29 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on January 28, 2016, 04:18:06 PM
I went to Strugeon Bay with my mother and stepfather right after Christmas for one week. I saw my first Interstate 41 signs on that trip, and I think the road should have become an Interstate a long time ago. Of course the freeway conversion of the entire corridor wasn't completed until 2001, so it may have been impractical.

I don't think many people object to it being an interstate. The idiocy of choosing I-41 as the number while also keeping US 41 is what's annoying. I realize it's between I-39 and I-43. But they should have decommissioned US 41 then from the state line to the Keweenaw to get rid of the concurrency. Or something.


I like the number.  It not only fits the grid, but has been the actual number of the highway since its inception.  I would have just had US-41 as an unsigned concurrency - disappears at the IL line and reappears north of Green Bay.

It's only signed on the mainline reassurance shields and US 41 follow I-41 BGS at major interchanges.  I think WISDOT did a great job signing it, except for the north end.

There still isn't an End I-41 sign there yet.  Lineville Rd doesn't have any I-41 south signs at the interchange, despite having a Begin I-41 BGS and I-41 reassurance sign right after the interchange.  Along I-43 at the I-41 interchange, the US 41 shield was replaced with an I-41 shield.  Due to construction, the temp. signs say North I-41 so I'm assuming the end sign should be placed just south of Lineville Rd.  Construction is complete in that area so there isn't any reason why a sign couldn't be placed.  If a not that important permanent "Buckle Up" sign can be placed in the area, why can't an end I-41 sign be placed?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: roadman65 on February 01, 2016, 07:51:51 AM
That is why my joke proposal of having US 50 be I-50 from Emporia, KS and Lees Summit, MO would work.  It would be between I-40 and I-70 and fit the grid well in addition.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Rothman on February 01, 2016, 08:04:53 AM
Quote from: mrose on February 01, 2016, 12:22:31 AM
I think of it like a British or Australian motorway changing grade, like going from A20 to M20 and then back to A20. US 41 to I-41 back to US 41.



Or...I-787 to NY 787, I-590 to NY 590, I-390 to NY 390, I-481 to NY 481, I-690 to NY 690...
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on February 01, 2016, 08:49:43 AM
CA 238 to I-238...

*ducks* :D
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: noelbotevera on February 01, 2016, 11:18:58 AM
It's been almost a year since I-41 was born, have all the signs been patched/replaced/removed?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: US 41 on February 01, 2016, 12:15:48 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on January 31, 2016, 08:49:15 PM
Quote from: US 41 on January 31, 2016, 08:37:22 PM
I don't understand what is so bad or confusing about I-41. It fits perfectly in the grid and it runs concurrent with US 41 the entire way (except for maybe a few miles in Milwaukee). Regardless of what you call the road it is still 41.

It actually runs concurrently with US-41 for its entire length now that US-41 has been re-routed.

That's good. Back in August when I drove through Milwaukee I think US 41 and I-41 split off at the 94/894 interchange near the airport. Glad to see that has changed.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on February 01, 2016, 01:08:45 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on February 01, 2016, 11:18:58 AM
It's been almost a year since I-41 was born, have all the signs been patched/replaced/removed?

All the signing for I-41, US 41 and WIS 175 was completed by last fall. However, I have noticed a scant few they missed.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: FightingIrish on February 01, 2016, 01:11:09 PM
And, in other I-41 news, the Center St. bridge a few miles north of the Zoo Interchange was demolished over the weekend, as they prepare to rebuild it. The eventual goal is to widen I-41 to four lanes each direction.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on February 01, 2016, 02:23:46 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on February 01, 2016, 11:18:58 AM
It's been almost a year since I-41 was born, have all the signs been patched/replaced/removed?

Not sure, because quite a few still had not been late this summer. I expect especially in more rural areas this may still be the case.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on February 02, 2016, 04:09:26 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 01, 2016, 02:23:46 PM
Quote from: noelbotevera on February 01, 2016, 11:18:58 AM
It's been almost a year since I-41 was born, have all the signs been patched/replaced/removed?

Not sure, because quite a few still had not been late this summer. I expect especially in more rural areas this may still be the case.

WISDOT said that the signing project would last from June-November, and it did.  They started with BGS' at the Wis 172 interchange, the reassurance signs on the mainline, then started at the Wis 165 interchange and signed all the interchanges and BGS northward. I live in the Green Bay Area, and the interchange signs were put up the 1st week in November.  No end sign at the north end yet.  There is a Begin I-41 BGS just south of the Lineville Rd interchange.  I posted a pic on this thread.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Henry on February 02, 2016, 11:25:14 AM
I think it's great to see I-41 become reality! Route duplication be damned.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Pete from Boston on February 03, 2016, 08:30:55 PM
Quote from: Henry on February 02, 2016, 11:25:14 AM
I think it's great to see I-41 become reality! Route duplication be damned.

I think it's time they grew a pair and created Wisconsin Route 41.

NOTE to the thread participants - The Interstate 45 posts have been moved to Fictional highways -sso
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on February 29, 2016, 12:55:34 PM
Drove on I-41 today and noticed that the mileage signs include Milwaukee with updated mileage.  I wonder if WISDOT needed FWHA approval before changing the mileage signs. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: The Ghostbuster on February 29, 2016, 03:24:58 PM
Pete From Boston, there was a WIS 41 that traveled from La Crosse to Milwaukee before the coming of the US highway system in 1926 (it is now US 14 from La Crosse to Middleton, and US 18 from Madison to Milwaukee). Wisconsin did not allow duplication of route numbers, whether state highway, US highway, and later Interstate highway. This changed when Interstate 39 was designated in Wisconsin in 1992 (and signed in 1996).
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on February 29, 2016, 06:59:08 PM
Turning US 41 into I-41 is something I started putting on my fictional maps when I was 13 in the 90's so as I drove a long stretch of it this weekend (GB to Oshkosh) I felt quite satisfied.  I like the way the signage is handled where I-41 is the primary focus at all the junctions with US 41 lingering here and there on reassurance markers.

I probably commented on this earlier, but the rebuild through Green Bay is so impressive.  A 10 lane cross-section (2-3-3-2) between WI 29 and Mason Street; I've known for a long time that was the plan, but to see it all done (well, that portion) it's humbling to think about the four lane freeway that used to be there. (Okay, 6 with aux lanes.)

The I-43 junction looks like the NB 43 to SB 41 ramp is much closer to opening than the SB 41 -> SB 43 ramp.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on February 29, 2016, 08:32:40 PM
The NB I-43 to SB I-41 ramp is completed, but the I-41 southbound lanes aren't open yet so it's a ramp to nowhere right now.  Between Mason St and Oneida St, there are supposed to be 4 thru lanes with additional auxiliary lanes in between.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on March 01, 2016, 10:51:04 AM
Five mainline lanes between WI 32 and I-43, too.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: The Ghostbuster on March 01, 2016, 01:28:22 PM
If they used the actual mileage of the relocation of US/Interstate 41 through the Milwaukee area, all of the exits north of the Zoo Interchange would have to be increased by 5.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on May 06, 2016, 01:22:07 PM
We did this story a few weeks ago but I forgot to post.

http://fox11online.com/news/local/green-bay/interstate-41-project-in-brown-county-nears-completion

Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on May 06, 2016, 02:36:52 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on March 01, 2016, 01:28:22 PM
If they used the actual mileage of the relocation of US/Interstate 41 through the Milwaukee area, all of the exits north of the Zoo Interchange would have to be increased by 5.

Aren't the mileposts and interchange numbers along I-41 north of Milwaukee based on continuing the sequence of the US 45 freeway exit numbers north of I-94 (Zoo Interchange)?

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: The Ghostbuster on May 06, 2016, 06:25:17 PM
It certainly looks that way. I think it's unlikely the existing exit numbers will be changed, even if they are off by 5 miles based on present mileage on Interstate/US 41.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Brandon on May 06, 2016, 06:57:18 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on May 06, 2016, 06:25:17 PM
It certainly looks that way. I think it's unlikely the existing exit numbers will be changed, even if they are off by 5 miles based on present mileage on Interstate/US 41.

And there's WisDOT precedent for that.  I-39 is the same way, using US-51's mileposts north of Portage.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on May 06, 2016, 09:46:41 PM
The mileposts on I-41 and US 45 are identical until the Richfield Split.  The exits after the I-41/US 45 split are both Exit 60.  Wis 145/County FD for US 45 and County FD for I-41.  The BGS on I-41 still say Wis 145, despite the road being turned over to Washington County and becoming County FD. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: The Ghostbuster on May 09, 2016, 04:22:06 PM
Is it possible the exit numbers on US/Interstate 41 are numbered they way they are because those numbers were accurate when US 41 used its pre-1999 route through the Milwaukee area?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on May 09, 2016, 11:09:43 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on May 09, 2016, 04:22:06 PM
Is it possible the exit numbers on US/Interstate 41 are numbered they way they are because those numbers were accurate when US 41 used its pre-1999 route through the Milwaukee area?

It's based off of US 45.  There isn't a significant difference in mileage between the two routes so WISDOT probably found it easier for the exit number to sequence from the Zoo Freeway.  The Stadium Freeway didn't have exit numbers but have mile posts still posted, even with the road now being designated as Wis 175.  Mile 40 on the Stadium Freeway is just before Lloyd St, while Watertown Plank Road is Exit 40 along I-41.  There's a shorter distance on US 45 than old US 41 to the Richfield Split, which shows evidence that the route numbers were always based off of US 45. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on June 04, 2016, 10:36:47 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on February 29, 2016, 12:55:34 PM
Drove on I-41 today and noticed that the mileage signs include Milwaukee with updated mileage.  I wonder if WISDOT needed FWHA approval before changing the mileage signs. 
I drove the route from 1 interchange (Lineville Rd) north of I-43 to WIS-33.  Milwaukee's back on signs in FDL and Dodge Counties - but not in Washington County yet.  I'm not sure why but I think because they're old signs and 45 never really pointed to DT Milwaukee it may have been strange to post it.  They've been resurfacing the freeway between FDL and Lomira (ish)

Side note: Finally!!!! Wausau gets respect!!!!.  Though the west end of the 4-lane WIS-29 says Green Bay as does the cramped cloverleaf at US-53, the east end of the 4-lane (3-miles of 70mph on 29 at I-41 btw) Stevens Point gets respect at US-10 (SB to WB).  The 3-mile approach sign on WIS-29 has Appleton and Marinette as the Control cities. (Which makes sense given the same for I-43 NB before the construction).  Also I-41 was signed SB at the Lineville Rd interchange. - but pull-through signs NB only showed US-41 at the interchange.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on June 05, 2016, 01:09:24 AM
Quote from: SSOWorld on June 04, 2016, 10:36:47 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on February 29, 2016, 12:55:34 PM
Drove on I-41 today and noticed that the mileage signs include Milwaukee with updated mileage.  I wonder if WISDOT needed FWHA approval before changing the mileage signs. 
I drove the route from 1 interchange (Lineville Rd) north of I-43 to WIS-33.  Milwaukee's back on signs in FDL and Dodge Counties - but not in Washington County yet.  I'm not sure why but I think because they're old signs and 45 never really pointed to DT Milwaukee it may have been strange to post it.  They've been resurfacing the freeway between FDL and Lomira (ish)

Side note: Finally!!!! Wausau gets respect!!!!.  Though the west end of the 4-lane WIS-29 says Green Bay as does the cramped cloverleaf at US-53, the east end of the 4-lane (3-miles of 70mph on 29 at I-41 btw) Stevens Point gets respect at US-10 (SB to WB).  The 3-mile approach sign on WIS-29 has Appleton and Marinette as the Control cities. (Which makes sense given the same for I-43 NB before the construction).  Also I-41 was signed SB at the Lineville Rd interchange. - but pull-through signs NB only showed US-41 at the interchange.

Note that that NB overhead BGS on I-41 on the approach to Lineville Rd is in error - it says 'US 41'.  There should also be a 'US 141' shield on it.

I-41's marked north end is at Lineville, BTW.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: dvferyance on June 20, 2016, 06:53:53 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on May 06, 2016, 09:46:41 PM
The mileposts on I-41 and US 45 are identical until the Richfield Split.  The exits after the I-41/US 45 split are both Exit 60.  Wis 145/County FD for US 45 and County FD for I-41.  The BGS on I-41 still say Wis 145, despite the road being turned over to Washington County and becoming County FD.
That's makes sense county FD is like 1/2 a mile long nobody cares that it's even there is so short you can't even put it on the map.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on June 20, 2016, 09:49:11 PM
I get the impression that WI 145 north of the Granville Interchange is destined to the scrap heap, so one day those signs will change.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: dvferyance on June 21, 2016, 11:00:03 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on June 20, 2016, 09:49:11 PM
I get the impression that WI 145 north of the Granville Interchange is destined to the scrap heap, so one day those signs will change.
I hope your wrong they just scraped WI-74 can't we finally just settle for the routes the way they are for once? This is just getting way out of hand.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on June 21, 2016, 11:31:47 AM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 21, 2016, 11:00:03 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on June 20, 2016, 09:49:11 PM
I get the impression that WI 145 north of the Granville Interchange is destined to the scrap heap, so one day those signs will change.
I hope your wrong they just scraped WI-74 can't we finally just settle for the routes the way they are for once? This is just getting way out of hand.


You keep saying this, but it is completely untrue.  There is probably more "route stability" in the Wisconsin highway system than anytime that I can recall.  Outside of moving some routes onto bypasses, there has been one major reroute (WI-13 between Rapids and Marshfield), one extension (WI-66) and one decommissioning (WI-74) in the last five years.  Unless I am misremembering something.

If you think this is "way out of hand," you would have been driven crazy in the 1950s where routings changed almost annually.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: The Ghostbuster on June 21, 2016, 06:03:13 PM
The 1950s? How about the first couple of decades of the state highway system? There were plenty of changes back then as well.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: dvferyance on June 22, 2016, 02:08:41 PM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on June 21, 2016, 11:31:47 AM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 21, 2016, 11:00:03 AM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on June 20, 2016, 09:49:11 PM
I get the impression that WI 145 north of the Granville Interchange is destined to the scrap heap, so one day those signs will change.
I hope your wrong they just scraped WI-74 can't we finally just settle for the routes the way they are for once? This is just getting way out of hand.


You keep saying this, but it is completely untrue.  There is probably more "route stability" in the Wisconsin highway system than anytime that I can recall.  Outside of moving some routes onto bypasses, there has been one major reroute (WI-13 between Rapids and Marshfield), one extension (WI-66) and one decommissioning (WI-74) in the last five years.  Unless I am misremembering something.

If you think this is "way out of hand," you would have been driven crazy in the 1950s where routings changed almost annually.
The route of WI-74 changed 4 times within my lifetime. Scaled back out of Milwaukee County reroute of WI-100. Scaled back west of Sussex the extended to Pewaukee then done away with completely. WI-164 was been extended twice and rerouted twice within my lifetime. Waukesha County F has existed on both sides of Waukesha in my lifetime. In Ozaukee County WI-57 was rerouted WI-181 extended WI-84 and WI-143 decommissioned. And this still isn't everything I would say this is more than enough routing changes of course you can disagree but there is no question that in the last coupe of decades there have been lots and lots of them. I look at the Chicago area from 30 years ago it's about the same as today. The only change I am aware of were the east ends of IL-120 and IL-132. Perhaps there has been stability in the rest of the state and I actually I agree with that but in SE Wisconsin is where most of the changes have taken place.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on August 11, 2016, 02:30:27 AM
New BGS on I-43 for the Atkinson Dr exit telling motorists to use it to get to Velp Ave since access to Velp at I-41 is no longer available with the new flyover ramp. 

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8876/28801283282_b4bda6e418_k_d.jpg)

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8036/28290979203_8fa304d81e_k_d.jpg)



The US 141 south/Velp Ave exit closes today for reconstruction.  It is the last interchange to be worked on.  Between Wis 54/Mason St and County G, crews keep inching closer to opening the remaining lanes. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: dvferyance on August 11, 2016, 01:56:34 PM
Thanks for the update. Good to hear it's almost done. Now hopefully I-43 can get the same treatment in the coming years.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on August 16, 2016, 03:46:45 PM
New northbound lanes opened today between Wis 172 and Wis 54.  Check out pics on Facebook.  Interesting that US 41 reassurance signs were omitted and I-41 is signed solo.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: GeekJedi on August 16, 2016, 09:31:14 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on August 16, 2016, 03:46:45 PM
Interesting that US 41 reassurance signs were omitted and I-41 is signed solo.

I still think that's the ultimate fate. US-41 will eventually be "unsigned" along the route, save for a few "41 Follow 41" signs. There are more than a few "uni-assemblies" in Milwaukee that have 894/45/I-41 on a single board, and US-41 on a standalone sign. The new on ramp BGS's on WI-33 and a few other exits show I-41 only, as do the BGS's near the Lake Butte Des Morts bridge in Oshkosh.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on August 16, 2016, 09:47:22 PM
I think the entire signing of US-41 makes no sense between the IL line and Green Bay.  If they would have simply made it "disappear" between those two spots, very few would be confused.  People would figure it out.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on August 17, 2016, 12:47:15 AM
Quote from: GeekJedi on August 16, 2016, 09:31:14 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on August 16, 2016, 03:46:45 PM
Interesting that US 41 reassurance signs were omitted and I-41 is signed solo.

I still think that's the ultimate fate. US-41 will eventually be "unsigned" along the route, save for a few "41 Follow 41" signs. There are more than a few "uni-assemblies" in Milwaukee that have 894/45/I-41 on a single board, and US-41 on a standalone sign. The new on ramp BGS's on WI-33 and a few other exits show I-41 only, as do the BGS's near the Lake Butte Des Morts bridge in Oshkosh.

The BGS and signs at exits only had I-41 the entire time without US 41 with the exception of US 41 follow I-41 at major interchanges, but WISDOT put US 41 reassurance signs with I-41 after every entrance ramp on the mainline.  This is the first time I have seen a reassurance sign with US 41 omitted on the mainline. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: alecscradle on August 18, 2016, 01:36:37 AM
I'm not sure how Wisconsin plans on making US 41 from the IL State Line to Green Bay "unsigned", since that would be ~170 miles of an unsigned highway.  Typically in the past if they put a highway on top of a US Route they just typically decommission the US Route, which could happen to US 41 in WI and MI.  It wouldn't be much of a problem for Michigan, they'd probably just turn it into M 41, but I'm not sure what they would call it in Wisconsin past Green Bay.  Turning it into WI 41 would be very confusing.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on August 18, 2016, 03:36:59 AM
Quote from: alecscradle on August 18, 2016, 01:36:37 AM
I'm not sure how Wisconsin plans on making US 41 from the IL State Line to Green Bay "unsigned", since that would be ~170 miles of an unsigned highway.  Typically in the past if they put a highway on top of a US Route they just typically decommission the US Route, which could happen to US 41 in WI and MI.  It wouldn't be much of a problem for Michigan, they'd probably just turn it into M 41, but I'm not sure what they would call it in Wisconsin past Green Bay.  Turning it into WI 41 would be very confusing.

US 52 is unsigned from Jamestown, ND to St Paul, MN which spans hundreds of miles.  There's a US 52 follow I-94 sign at the US 52/I-94 east interchange in St Paul, and that is it until North Dakota. 

There are US 41 follow I-41 BGS  at major interchanges, such as at Wis 441, US 10, US 45 in Oshkosh, I-43, and the I-94 interchanges.  The I-41/US 41 reassurance signs are only a year old so they are going to be around a long time.  The only reason why the I-41 standalone signs were posted now because it was a work zone when all of the other signs were posted.  Even if there was a hidden concurrency, US 41 could still remain north of Green Bay.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: silverback1065 on August 18, 2016, 07:54:14 AM
Quote from: peterj920 on August 18, 2016, 03:36:59 AM
Quote from: alecscradle on August 18, 2016, 01:36:37 AM
I'm not sure how Wisconsin plans on making US 41 from the IL State Line to Green Bay "unsigned", since that would be ~170 miles of an unsigned highway.  Typically in the past if they put a highway on top of a US Route they just typically decommission the US Route, which could happen to US 41 in WI and MI.  It wouldn't be much of a problem for Michigan, they'd probably just turn it into M 41, but I'm not sure what they would call it in Wisconsin past Green Bay.  Turning it into WI 41 would be very confusing.

US 52 is unsigned from Jamestown, ND to St Paul, MN which spans hundreds of miles.  There's a US 52 follow I-94 sign at the US 52/I-94 east interchange in St Paul, and that is it until North Dakota. 

There are US 41 follow I-41 BGS  at major interchanges, such as at Wis 441, US 10, US 45 in Oshkosh, I-43, and the I-94 interchanges.  The I-41/US 41 reassurance signs are only a year old so they are going to be around a long time.  The only reason why the I-41 standalone signs were posted now because it was a work zone when all of the other signs were posted.  Even if there was a hidden concurrency, US 41 could still remain north of Green Bay.

I don't get the point of not signing US 52 in this situation.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on August 18, 2016, 11:24:54 AM
Quote from: alecscradle on August 18, 2016, 01:36:37 AM
I'm not sure how Wisconsin plans on making US 41 from the IL State Line to Green Bay "unsigned", since that would be ~170 miles of an unsigned highway. 

Yep.  Not sure what is wrong with that.  Simply turning a US Highway into an Interstate with the same number.

Quote from: alecscradle on August 18, 2016, 01:36:37 AMTypically in the past if they put a highway on top of a US Route they just typically decommission the US Route, which could happen to US 41 in WI and MI.  It wouldn't be much of a problem for Michigan, they'd probably just turn it into M 41, but I'm not sure what they would call it in Wisconsin past Green Bay.  Turning it into WI 41 would be very confusing.

Why would that be confusing? 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: dcharlie on August 18, 2016, 11:32:23 AM
Did Illinois Or (WIS) ever put up I-41 signs on the Illinois side of the border?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Henry on August 18, 2016, 12:44:02 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on August 16, 2016, 03:46:45 PM
New northbound lanes opened today between Wis 172 and Wis 54.  Check out pics on Facebook.  Interesting that US 41 reassurance signs were omitted and I-41 is signed solo.
So US 41 will be decommissioned eventually where I-41 is? I don't see any problem with that.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on August 18, 2016, 12:58:43 PM
US 41 is a vital road in the UP. I can't see Michigan ever getting on board with decommissioning it.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on August 18, 2016, 04:31:27 PM
Quote from: dcharlie on August 18, 2016, 11:32:23 AM
Did Illinois Or (WIS) ever put up I-41 signs on the Illinois side of the border?

Southbound, there are 2 END I-41 signs at the state line.  Northbound, there is a BGS at Russell Rd with I-41, along with I-41 signs for the northbound I-41/I-94 on ramp from Russell Rd. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on August 18, 2016, 04:39:04 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 18, 2016, 12:58:43 PM
US 41 is a vital road in the UP. I can't see Michigan ever getting on board with decommissioning it.

Michigan has no problem decommissioning US highways.  If Wisconsin wanted to decommission it, they would just designate it M-41.  US 27 was a vital highway and renumbered a large portion of it US 127 so US 27 could be end in Indiana and not follow I-69.  US 10 was a major roadway in the Detroit area, but was designated M-10 so US 10 didn't have to run concurrent with I-75 between the Detroit metro to Bay City.  Wisconsin won't decommission US 41.  Wisconsin likes to keep its US highways for the most part.  US 16 was only decommissioned because Minnesota and South Dakota pressured it to, and the entire route became Wis 16.  US 141 followed I-43 south of Green Bay so there was no point of keeping it. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: silverback1065 on August 18, 2016, 04:47:07 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on August 18, 2016, 04:39:04 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 18, 2016, 12:58:43 PM
US 41 is a vital road in the UP. I can't see Michigan ever getting on board with decommissioning it.

Michigan has no problem decommissioning US highways.  If Wisconsin wanted to decommission it, they would just designate it M-41.  US 27 was a vital highway and renumbered a large portion of it US 127 so US 27 could be end in Indiana and not follow I-69.  US 10 was a major roadway in the Detroit area, but was designated M-10 so US 10 didn't have to run concurrent with I-75 between the Detroit metro to Bay City.  Wisconsin won't decommission US 41.  Wisconsin likes to keep its US highways for the most part.  US 16 was only decommissioned because Minnesota and South Dakota pressured it to, and the entire route became Wis 16.  US 141 followed I-43 south of Green Bay so there was no point of keeping it.

I didn't US used to go to detroit! What was the original routing?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Mrt90 on August 18, 2016, 05:53:03 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on August 18, 2016, 04:31:27 PM
Quote from: dcharlie on August 18, 2016, 11:32:23 AM
Did Illinois Or (WIS) ever put up I-41 signs on the Illinois side of the border?

Southbound, there are 2 END I-41 signs at the state line.  Northbound, there is a BGS at Russell Rd with I-41, along with I-41 signs for the northbound I-41/I-94 on ramp from Russell Rd.
I think there are also signs on US41 at the US41/I-94 merge in Illinois which mention I-41.

It was probably smart to end I-41 south at the state line because it would have been confusing to have "End I-41" signs at the exit for US41, which is confusing enough because it is a left exit.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: dvferyance on August 18, 2016, 09:58:26 PM
I would just renumber the part north of Green Bay to US 37 if you were to end US 41 in Zion IL just before Wisconsin. I would just have US 41 hidden with I-41. Makes perfect sense it's the same number anyways. This is not by any means unusual. Colorado unsigned most of it's US highway duplexes with interstates.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: TheHighwayMan3561 on August 18, 2016, 10:25:32 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on August 18, 2016, 04:39:04 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 18, 2016, 12:58:43 PM
US 41 is a vital road in the UP. I can't see Michigan ever getting on board with decommissioning it.

Michigan has no problem decommissioning US highways.  If Wisconsin wanted to decommission it, they would just designate it M-41.  US 27 was a vital highway and renumbered a large portion of it US 127 so US 27 could be end in Indiana and not follow I-69.  US 10 was a major roadway in the Detroit area, but was designated M-10 so US 10 didn't have to run concurrent with I-75 between the Detroit metro to Bay City.  Wisconsin won't decommission US 41.  Wisconsin likes to keep its US highways for the most part.  US 16 was only decommissioned because Minnesota and South Dakota pressured it to, and the entire route became Wis 16.  US 141 followed I-43 south of Green Bay so there was no point of keeping it. 

Those other decomms were due to overlapping Interstates. This one is not quite the same as those others.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: bulldog1979 on August 19, 2016, 01:56:13 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 18, 2016, 10:25:32 PM
Quote from: peterj920 on August 18, 2016, 04:39:04 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 18, 2016, 12:58:43 PM
US 41 is a vital road in the UP. I can't see Michigan ever getting on board with decommissioning it.

Michigan has no problem decommissioning US highways.  If Wisconsin wanted to decommission it, they would just designate it M-41.  US 27 was a vital highway and renumbered a large portion of it US 127 so US 27 could be end in Indiana and not follow I-69.  US 10 was a major roadway in the Detroit area, but was designated M-10 so US 10 didn't have to run concurrent with I-75 between the Detroit metro to Bay City.  Wisconsin won't decommission US 41.  Wisconsin likes to keep its US highways for the most part.  US 16 was only decommissioned because Minnesota and South Dakota pressured it to, and the entire route became Wis 16.  US 141 followed I-43 south of Green Bay so there was no point of keeping it. 

Those other decomms were due to overlapping Interstates. This one is not quite the same as those others.

As I've noted elsewhere, MDOT did a study regarding overlapping designations in the Grand Rapids area in 1979. FHWA and AASHTO agreed to hide the I-296 designation to minimize diver confusion. In the wake of that study, MDOT looking at various other overlapping designations in the state in the 1980s. As a result, they petitioned to truncate US 2, removing it from I-75 between St. Ignace and Sault Ste. Marie and remove a "useless concurrency". They also petitioned to truncate US 10 off I-75 between Bay City and Clarkston. (From there, US 10 followed what is now US 24 to M-10 and then followed the Lodge Freeway into Detroit.) A similar petition trimmed back most of US 33 in the state, removing it north and northwest of Niles.

Those changes were all made in the 1983—86 timeframe. It wasn't until 1999 that MDOT got INDOT to go along with petitioning to remove US 27 from the state, and I suspect that the 3-year delay in actually changing US 27 to US 127 north of Lansing was related to a) getting the St. Johns Bypass finished, thus making US 127 flow right into US 27 instead of jogging along I-69; b) seeing where I-73 might fit into the equation by making both US 27 and US 127 redundant to a new number completely. If I-73 had a chance of moving forward, I suspect MDOT might asked to renumber US 27 north of Lansing as part of I-73, with "Future I-73" or "Temp I-73" along the Ithaca—St. Johns section.

On the other hand, I just don't see Michigan going along with dropping US 41 in the UP. The designation here isn't redundant to another one on the routing, and it serves as the main highway through the region's largest city.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: alecscradle on August 19, 2016, 07:58:36 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on August 18, 2016, 09:58:26 PM
I would just renumber the part north of Green Bay to US 37 if you were to end US 41 in Zion IL just before Wisconsin. I would just have US 41 hidden with I-41. Makes perfect sense it;s the same number anyways. This is not by any means unusual. Colorado unsigned most of it's US highway duplexes with interstates.

This makes the most sense to me.  Having the whole I 41/US 41 switch at Green Bay seems confusing at least to me, and I feel like some drivers would be confused as well.  Even if they're on the same route calling the same road 41 twice is confusing.

One thing I'm wondering is if they'd do anything to US 141 if US 41 were truncated.  I know auxiliary US routes don't have to connect to the main stem, but would it be worth renumbering that route?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on August 20, 2016, 11:40:45 AM
Renumbering a highway that has been "41" since everyone who lives around there has been alive would be much more confusing.  If number duplication was a problem, they should have chosen a different interstate number.  But I don't think it is much of a problem.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: dvferyance on August 20, 2016, 11:51:50 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 20, 2016, 11:40:45 AM
Renumbering a highway that has been "41" since everyone who lives around there has been alive would be much more confusing.  If number duplication was a problem, they should have chosen a different interstate number.  But I don't think it is much of a problem.
Just make US 41 hidden with I-41 makes perfect sense. As I said before Colorado does not sign most of it's US highway duplexes with interstates.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SEWIGuy on August 20, 2016, 12:26:35 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on August 20, 2016, 11:51:50 AM
Quote from: SEWIGuy on August 20, 2016, 11:40:45 AM
Renumbering a highway that has been "41" since everyone who lives around there has been alive would be much more confusing.  If number duplication was a problem, they should have chosen a different interstate number.  But I don't think it is much of a problem.
Just make US 41 hidden with I-41 makes perfect sense. As I said before Colorado does not sign most of it's US highway duplexes with interstates.

I agree with you completely.  I have said from the beginning that's what they should do.  Keeping US-41 reassurance markers around is completely unnecessary.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on August 20, 2016, 02:13:30 PM
This Friday, August 26 the I-41/I-43 interchange opens to traffic
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on August 26, 2016, 04:48:36 PM
The I-41/I-43 interchange is fully open today.  I-41 north mainline between County G and Wis 172 will open tomorrow.  Mainline traffic has been using C/D lanes for the last year. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on September 01, 2016, 12:52:37 PM
http://fox11online.com/news/local/green-bay/major-interchange-reopened-this-morning-in-green-bay-area
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: I-39 on September 03, 2016, 05:08:12 PM
Does anyone know why I-41 doesn't show up along the roadway between the Zoo interchange and WIS-145 on Google Maps? It also does not appear cosigned with I-94 or I-894.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: skluth on September 03, 2016, 11:43:36 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on August 18, 2016, 12:58:43 PM
US 41 is a vital road in the UP. I can't see Michigan ever getting on board with decommissioning it.

WI-29 gets by just fine as a state highway and is far busier than US-41 will ever be in the UP. There is no reason US-41 couldn't be state highways from Abrams to the the tip of the Keewenaw. They could also get rid of US-141 completely and designate it a state route in both Michigan and Wisconsin.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: alecscradle on September 04, 2016, 09:17:22 PM
Everyone here seems really split on whether US 41 should be decommissioned at some point.  I'm still in favor of it, but since there are no plans for it right now we'll just have to wait and see what happens.  In the meantime here's a poll just for fun.

http://www.strawpoll.me/11156955
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: triplemultiplex on September 05, 2016, 10:55:00 PM
Quote from: I-39 on September 03, 2016, 05:08:12 PM
Does anyone know why I-41 doesn't show up along the roadway between the Zoo interchange and WIS-145 on Google Maps? It also does not appear cosigned with I-94 or I-894.

Because Google Maps sometimes sucks.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: The Ghostbuster on September 06, 2016, 05:50:28 PM
As to US 41 being decommissioned along, and north of Interstate 41, I believe IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on September 22, 2016, 10:15:29 PM
North of Lombardi Ave, a US 41 reassurance sign was added next to the I-41 sign.  Between Wis 172 and Lombardi Ave the US 41 sign is omitted because of the lack of space due to the noise wall that is very close to the freeway. 
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on October 05, 2016, 02:15:19 PM
WISDOT just announced that all I-41 southbound lanes south of Mason St will open on Friday, and in the next week the speed limit will be raised to 70 between Hwy F and the US 41/141 split in Abrams.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: hobsini2 on October 05, 2016, 05:51:56 PM
Cool beans
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on October 05, 2016, 06:00:30 PM
Ceremony today:

http://fox11online.com/news/local/green-bay/i-41-project-nears-completion-ribbon-cutting-held
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: Fox 11 News on October 07, 2016, 12:13:24 PM
DOT release

Speed limit increases on I-41 in Brown County
Stretch of highway opening to 70 mph

(Green Bay) The Wisconsin Department of Transportation (WisDOT) Northeast Region office in Green Bay announces the speed limit on southbound I-41 increased to 70 mph on southbound I-41 from Abrams going south on Friday, October 7. It had been 55 mph due to I-41 Project construction. Northbound I-41 also increased to 70 mph, except between Lombardi Avenue and Lineville Road. This area will remain 55 mph on northbound lanes due to on-going construction.

The increase is possible due to the completion of major construction of I-41 and interchanges as part of the I-41 Project. Crews began work in 2010 and finished on time and under budget. The remaining work on the I-41 Project will included landscaping, staining, local road repairs and clean-up work in early 2017.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: dvferyance on October 07, 2016, 06:03:51 PM
Quote from: Fox 11 News on October 07, 2016, 12:13:24 PM
DOT release

Speed limit increases on I-41 in Brown County
Stretch of highway opening to 70 mph

(Green Bay) The Wisconsin Department of Transportation (WisDOT) Northeast Region office in Green Bay announces the speed limit on southbound I-41 increased to 70 mph on southbound I-41 from Abrams going south on Friday, October 7. It had been 55 mph due to I-41 Project construction. Northbound I-41 also increased to 70 mph, except between Lombardi Avenue and Lineville Road. This area will remain 55 mph on northbound lanes due to on-going construction.

The increase is possible due to the completion of major construction of I-41 and interchanges as part of the I-41 Project. Crews began work in 2010 and finished on time and under budget. The remaining work on the I-41 Project will included landscaping, staining, local road repairs and clean-up work in early 2017.
Good news this is going to be great for Green Bay. Hopefully I-43 can get the same upgrade in the near future.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on October 14, 2016, 12:10:40 AM
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5724/29681442954_1dd09f3e2b_k_d.jpg)

New End I-41 sign posted today after the I-43 north entrance ramp
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: mgk920 on October 14, 2016, 10:02:39 AM
Quote from: peterj920 on October 14, 2016, 12:10:40 AM
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5724/29681442954_1dd09f3e2b_k_d.jpg)

New End I-41 sign posted today after the I-43 north entrance ramp

In the other direction, the 'Begin/I-41' sign is significantly to the north, immediately south of the Lineville Rd interchange.

Mike
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: The Ghostbuster on October 14, 2016, 05:06:56 PM
Is this the first time the End Interstate 41 sign was posted? Or was this a replacement sign?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: SSOWorld on October 14, 2016, 05:38:50 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on October 14, 2016, 05:06:56 PM
Is this the first time the End Interstate 41 sign was posted? Or was this a replacement sign?
first one
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: 20160805 on October 24, 2016, 07:13:36 AM
I still wonder why the end of Interstate 41 is at the I-43 interchange.  North of that up to the 41/141 split (15 miles or so up the road), it's still a perfectly usable freeway, so why didn't they end it up there?
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: The Ghostbuster on October 24, 2016, 04:11:53 PM
I guess they figured the Abrams split is too rural a location for an Interstate to end. I agree it should have ended in Abrams, just like I thought Interstate 39 should have gone all the way to Exit 211 north of Merrill. I doubt Interstate 41 will ever go further north than its present terminus at Interstate 43.
Title: Re: US-41 Interstate Conversion
Post by: peterj920 on October 25, 2016, 03:00:59 PM
The last overhead BGS was installed last night for the I-43 south exit advance sign, right next to the begin I-41 sign.  The overhead BGS at the County M/Lineville Rd exit was also corrected to show US 41 and US 141; it previously only showed US 41.  The speed limit was also raised to 70 mph between Wis 54 and County M northbound.  That was the only stretch that was signed at 55 due to road work.  The Wis 29 and I-43 flyover ramps also have ramp advisory speeds of 65 mph, which are the fastest in Wisconsin.  The only thing left to install are the mile markers and all road work on the mainline is complete!