NCDOT to add I-495 onto US 64 from I-440 to I-95

Started by Mapmikey, February 27, 2013, 08:25:58 PM

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CanesFan27

also thread title should be more NCDOT proposes to add 495 (/nitpick)


jwolfer

Here is an option extnd the freeway all the way to Tidewater/Hampton Roads and make it all I-64.  That way NC can have 2 Interstate/US duplexes with the same number and we get a bonus Interstate that loops back on itself.  We could even get crazier and route it with 40/85 into Greensboro and put it on US 29 and have it meet back with I-64 in Virginia. 

(just so everyone is clear and I dont get hate messages this is sarcasm.  It makes as much sense as I-73/74 in the Carolinas in my mind.)

bob7374

#27
It appears NCDOT sent a letter to the FHWA back in November regarding the designation of US 64 as part of an I-44 interstate from Raleigh to Norfolk, not about a possible I-495 designation, check the letter out here: http://www.campo-nc.us/TCC_Agenda/2013/Agenda-TCC-2013-01-03-ATT-10-Addition%20of%20I-44,%20Wake%20County.pdf
The interstate request currently is only for the Knightdale Bypass portion, the part up to interstate standards, not the rest of the corridor, but they ask the FHWA to reserve the rest of the High Priority Corridor as a future I-44 (or another AASHTO approved number).

Strider

Um. they requested the FHWA to just designate US 64 as I-44 for just 10 miles, then the rest as a Future I-44 corridor? hmm.

jcarte29

So what was this whole post about with I-495? LOL
Interstates I've driven on (Complete and/or partial, no particular order)
------------------
40, 85, 95, 77, 277(NC), 485(NC), 440(NC), 540(NC), 795(NC), 140(NC), 73, 74, 840(NC), 26, 20, 75, 285(GA), 81, 64, 71, 275(OH), 465(IN), 65, 264(VA), 240(NC), 295(VA), 526(SC), 985(GA), 395(FL), 195(FL)

CarolinaPaladin

Any chance I-495 would be designated eastward to Williamston?

With I-495 being designated southwest of I-95, I would expect I-795 to be designated westward to I-495 and Zebulon.

I do not know if consideration will be given for a 3di designation for US-264 from I-795 to Greenville.  In the State of New York, several of I-90's spurs come from 3di loops.  I-195, I-395, I-595 and I-995 would be available designations.

As for I-540 changing its designation to I-640, I would find it doubtful.  I-520 in Augusta, Georgia is now a loop into South Carolina, thus changing the rules completely on 3DIs.  I-540, as it has been known that way for years, would keep its designation.

CanesFan27

Quote from: Strider on March 07, 2013, 11:49:57 PM
Um. they requested the FHWA to just designate US 64 as I-44 for just 10 miles, then the rest as a Future I-44 corridor? hmm.

Because the rest of the corridor is not to interstate standards. 

CanesFan27

Heck have I-4(X) continue on the Beltline South for two miles and end at I-40.

CanesFan27

Quote from: bugo on February 27, 2013, 09:35:43 PM
Is North Carolina going to make every little stretch of freeway into an interstate?  If I were in charge of AASHTO I would ban NC from making any changes for 5 years.

If the road is built to Interstate standards and can be added or is attached to the existing system - why not?

CanesFan27

Quote from: jcarte29 on March 08, 2013, 12:27:02 AM
So what was this whole post about with I-495? LOL

A couple of possibilities - they may have already been denied the I-44 request by the FHWA.  The letter that Bob refers to is from November.  The map that Mike Roberson posted is dated February 20th.

It is also entirely possible that the left hand of NCDOT (making the I-495 proposal) doesn't know what the right hand (The I-44 proposal) is doing. 

We will know shortly when the AASHTO decisions from their spring meeting is made.

Technically, they could extend the I-4(xy) designation one exit beyond Wendell Blvd. to exit 430 - Rolesville Road.  The interstate standard freeway ends just east of there.

OracleUsr

Aren't even-first-digit 3di's supposed to end and begin with an interstate, or is that what SHOULD happen?
Anti-center-tabbing, anti-sequential-numbering, anti-Clearview BGS FAN

BrianP

#36
Quote from: OracleUsr on March 08, 2013, 12:49:59 PM
Aren't even-first-digit 3di's supposed to end and begin with an interstate, or is that what SHOULD happen?
That's the general requirement for any interstate but exceptions for NHS routes are allowed:
QuoteThe proposed route should connect to the Interstate System at each end, with the exception of Interstate routes that connect with continental routes at an international border, or terminate in a "major highway traffic generator" that is not served by another Interstate route. In the latter case, the terminus of the Interstate route should connect to routes of the National Highway System that will adequately handle the traffic. The proposed route also must be functionally classified as a principal arterial and be a part of the National Highway System system.
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/legsregs/directives/fapg/cfr0470a.htm#appa

Even if US 64 east of I-95 were built to standards it would probably fail from this point:
QuoteThe proposed route should directly serve major highway traffic generators. The term "major highway traffic generator" means either an urbanized area with a population over 100,000 or a similar major concentrated land use activity that produces and attracts long-distance Interstate and statewide travel of persons and goods. Typical examples of similar major concentrated land use activities would include a principal industrial complex, government center, military installation, or transportation terminal.
Unless you could swing it that it's part of a future route to Norfolk like Bob said.  I assume that I-795 got by this provision thanks to Seymour Johnson AFB.

So I would guess that they are swinging for the fences with the I-44 proposal with the I-495 proposal as a fallback.

Strider

If NCDOT have the plans for the interstate standard freeway (or any form of upgrades) to parallel US 17 northeast to Norfolk, then I can see why it can be labeled a future interstate route, but I don't think that is in any of their plans.... But, upgrading the route to I-495 from I-95 to I-440 and have I-795 extend from I-95 northwest to I-495 should be ok at this time.

Rover_0

I think that NCDOT should push for the I-44 (I'd make it I-42 IMO)* designation as the first step in a Raleigh-Norfolk interstate. Maybe if NCDOT lets AASHTO know that and has a plan in place with VaDOT, then they can get the 2di designation.

*I can see I-46 in the greater Norfolk area getting confused with I-64, and US-48 exists in Virginia. That, and I prefer to use all reasonable numbers before duplicating already-used numbers.
Fixing erroneous shields, one at a time...

Alex

Quote from: Rover_0 on March 08, 2013, 02:48:42 PM
I think that NCDOT should push for the I-44 (I'd make it I-42 IMO)* designation as the first step in a Raleigh-Norfolk interstate. Maybe if NCDOT lets AASHTO know that and has a plan in place with VaDOT, then they can get the 2di designation.

*I can see I-46 in the greater Norfolk area getting confused with I-64, and US-48 exists in Virginia. That, and I prefer to use all reasonable numbers before duplicating already-used numbers.

My only foray into this, which is purely fictional, is to just designate any new 2di along this corridor as Interstate 50. That number will never be used anywhere else, so why not just break it in here. I actually had this fictional idea back in 2000 when I lived in eastern NC for a Raleigh to Norfolk freeway, so I figured I'd throw it out there now with this I-4x concept and it gives me a chance to use an old Carter photo manip:



To address the post from Rover_0, as for the US 64 freeway heading east of Rocky Mount, its been over ten years since I was last on it, but I remember it being lightly traveled (and ultra boring FWIW). Looking at traffic counts, NCDOT recorded 22,000 in western Edgecombe County and 11,000 vpd in eastern Edgecombe County in 2011. The counts drop to 8,700 between Everetts and Williamston, with an increase to just 12,000 on the section with US 13/17. Are these counts even enough to warrant an Interstate highway designation?

Rover_0

I like the I-50 number here. Might as well, since, indeed, it won't be used anywhere else (barring a Schuster-esque move).
Fixing erroneous shields, one at a time...

froggie

QuoteLooking at traffic counts, NCDOT recorded 22,000 in western Edgecombe County and 11,000 vpd in eastern Edgecombe County in 2011. The counts drop to 8,700 between Everetts and Williamston, with an increase to just 12,000 on the section with US 13/17. Are these counts even enough to warrant an Interstate highway designation?

Can't really attach Interstate designation to vehicle counts, but you can attach type of road to them.  As a general rule (your "local mileage" may vary), volumes less than 10-12K do not warrant a 4-lane highway, but some states (mostly rural states like Mississippi) use a threshold as low as 5K.

Revive 755

Quote from: Alex on March 08, 2013, 04:33:14 PM
My only foray into this, which is purely fictional, is to just designate any new 2di along this corridor as Interstate 50. That number will never be used anywhere else, so why not just break it in here.

Given the I-41/US 41 garbage in Wisconsin, there's always the chance for I-50/US 50 some decade across Missouri.   :bigass:

bob7374

The AASHTO SCOH US Route Numbering Committee has approved the I-495 designation pending FHWA concurrence. The route will be signed as I-495 only from I-440 east to I-540 first. The remainder of US 64 to I-95 has been approved as 'Future I-495' until the route is brought up to interstate standards.

To see the approved applications for NC and elsewhere, go to: http://route.transportation.org/Documents/Report%20to%20SCOH%20from%20USRN%20SM2013%20May%203-May%207.pdf

CanesFan27

Quote from: bob7374 on May 09, 2013, 04:16:22 PM
The AASHTO SCOH US Route Numbering Committee has approved the I-495 designation pending FHWA concurrence. The route will be signed as I-495 only from I-440 east to I-540 first. The remainder of US 64 to I-95 has been approved as 'Future I-495' until the route is brought up to interstate standards.

To see the approved applications for NC and elsewhere, go to: http://route.transportation.org/Documents/Report%20to%20SCOH%20from%20USRN%20SM2013%20May%203-May%207.pdf

Surprised that they didn't go to at least Business 64 (exit 429) since the road is to standard. 

The good news is since I am on the road every day as part of my commute - it'll be interesting to see how long the state takes to put up the Interstate shields.

CanesFan27

Also interesting is in NCDOT's letter to the FHWA is they requested that they waive the requirement to re-designate I-540 (since it will now end at I-495). 

bob7374

Quote from: CanesFan27 on May 09, 2013, 04:31:10 PM
Quote from: bob7374 on May 09, 2013, 04:16:22 PM
The AASHTO SCOH US Route Numbering Committee has approved the I-495 designation pending FHWA concurrence. The route will be signed as I-495 only from I-440 east to I-540 first. The remainder of US 64 to I-95 has been approved as 'Future I-495' until the route is brought up to interstate standards.

To see the approved applications for NC and elsewhere, go to: http://route.transportation.org/Documents/Report%20to%20SCOH%20from%20USRN%20SM2013%20May%203-May%207.pdf

Surprised that they didn't go to at least Business 64 (exit 429) since the road is to standard. 

The good news is since I am on the road every day as part of my commute - it'll be interesting to see how long the state takes to put up the Interstate shields.
I still think the I-640 switch is a good idea.  :-/ The applications can be reached through a link here: http://route.transportation.org/Pages/CommitteeNoticesActionsandApprovals.aspx

froggie

QuoteSurprised that they didn't go to at least Business 64 (exit 429) since the road is to standard.

Probably because of FHWA's general requirement that new Interstate segments (Congressional legislation notwithstanding) connect to a "logical termini" at the other end, usually another Interstate, major facility, or NHS highway.  Business 64 doesn't count, but the split at 264 would once they get the upgrades out to Zebulon completed.

elsmere241

Quote from: CanesFan27 on May 09, 2013, 04:38:56 PM
Also interesting is in NCDOT's letter to the FHWA is they requested that they waive the requirement to re-designate I-540 (since it will now end at I-495). 

All of I-86 in Connecticut and Massachusetts was redesignated as I-84 in the 1980s.  It wouldn't be that hard to change the signs.

broadhurst04

Quote from: bob7374 on May 09, 2013, 04:48:34 PM
I still think the I-640 switch is a good idea.  :-/

So do I. The Raleigh Outer Loop is the most horribly mis-managed freeway project I've ever seen. Part toll, part free, AND the wrong number.



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