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Signs you would add to the MUTCD from outside North America

Started by cpzilliacus, July 28, 2015, 01:14:53 PM

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cpzilliacus

Quote from: jakeroot on July 29, 2015, 01:15:30 AM
I am the last person who'd support the imperial system presently in use. Any sort of major overhaul to MUTCD signage should come along with metric units.

There are (or were) provisions in the MUTCD for SI units in addition to U.S. customary units.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.


Brandon

Quote from: jakeroot on July 29, 2015, 01:09:13 AM
*I like the motorway signs, but they have stronger meaning in Europe. Most of Europe has motorway restrictions, and while there are restrictions on US freeways, they are far less numerous. In the US, they are best fit to replace "Freeway Entrance" (IMO).

The restrictions on freeway use vary from state to state.  Some states, such as Colorado, even allow for bicycles to use freeways unless otherwise prohibited.  I'd be more in favor of using signs that prohibit X from using the freeway, such as the symbol sings for no pedestrians and no bicycles, and using symbol signage for no farm implements (no sign over a tractor) and for no riding animals (no sign over a rider on a horse).
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

TEG24601

Quote from: Revive 755 on July 28, 2015, 06:19:13 PM
Quote from: TEG24601 on July 28, 2015, 03:04:06 PM
There Permissible Turn in Green Circle from Canada.

Better IMHO to stick with the current US practice of having the turn being legal unless signed otherwise, or using the lane control (R3-6) signs


This is more of an "Only" sign.  It would be much better than using the word "Only" as we do, especially given the lack of an official language.
They said take a left at the fork in the road.  I didn't think they literally meant a fork, until plain as day, there was a fork sticking out of the road at a junction.

SignGeek101

Quote from: TEG24601 on July 30, 2015, 02:37:29 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on July 28, 2015, 06:19:13 PM
Quote from: TEG24601 on July 28, 2015, 03:04:06 PM
There Permissible Turn in Green Circle from Canada.

Better IMHO to stick with the current US practice of having the turn being legal unless signed otherwise, or using the lane control (R3-6) signs

This is more of an "Only" sign.  It would be much better than using the word "Only" as we do, especially given the lack of an official language.

Agreed. Even in Canada, I'm not a fan of the green circle signs. Partially because I always think they mean that, in this example, turning left is allowed, but not mandatory. I believe another colour (either blue or black) is used in Europe.

riiga

Quote from: SignGeek101 on July 30, 2015, 02:44:50 PM
Quote from: TEG24601 on July 30, 2015, 02:37:29 PM
Quote from: Revive 755 on July 28, 2015, 06:19:13 PM
Quote from: TEG24601 on July 28, 2015, 03:04:06 PM
There Permissible Turn in Green Circle from Canada.

Better IMHO to stick with the current US practice of having the turn being legal unless signed otherwise, or using the lane control (R3-6) signs

This is more of an "Only" sign.  It would be much better than using the word "Only" as we do, especially given the lack of an official language.

Agreed. Even in Canada, I'm not a fan of the green circle signs. Partially because I always think they mean that, in this example, turning left is allowed, but not mandatory. I believe another colour (either blue or black) is used in Europe.
Blue is used and means a mandatory movement.

The problem with the green signs though is that they aren't good for the color-blind. Compare

vdeane

Wouldn't a color blind person be able to tell the difference because the green signs don't have the slash through the middle and the red signs do?
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Rothman

Quote from: vdeane on July 30, 2015, 05:38:39 PM
Wouldn't a color blind person be able to tell the difference because the green signs don't have the slash through the middle and the red signs do?

I'm color blind and I confirm vdeane's assertion to be true. :D
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

riiga

Indeed, but having a color that is easily distinguishable helps too, hence why we (at least in Europe) tend to use distinctive colors, while America traditionally has been more about shape for certain signs.

D-Dey65

Quote from: TEG24601 on July 28, 2015, 03:04:06 PM
The Checkerboard Diamond "End of Road" sign from Canada.

So that's what that is. I've seen this in movies like "National Lampoon's Senior Trip," and others. I forget what I saw in "Rock n' Rule," but I believe it was something of a Canadian standard. I'll have to check it again.


cpzilliacus

Quote from: riiga on July 30, 2015, 06:05:44 PM
Indeed, but having a color that is easily distinguishable helps too, hence why we (at least in Europe) tend to use distinctive colors, while America traditionally has been more about shape for certain signs.

Though North America has pretty obviously adapted European signs to conform to U.S./Canada standards in the past.

Finland (from the Finnish National Transport Administration site):


U.S. (thanks to Richard Moeur's great site):


Finland:


U.S.:
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: TEG24601 on July 28, 2015, 03:04:06 PM
The Checkerboard Diamond "End of Road" sign from Canada.


Wonder if the checkboard sign would be better if the yellow was in red instead?
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

jakeroot

Quote from: cpzilliacus on August 02, 2015, 11:55:55 AM
Quote from: TEG24601 on July 28, 2015, 03:04:06 PM
The Checkerboard Diamond "End of Road" sign from Canada.

Wonder if the checkboard sign would be better if the yellow was in red instead?

Granted, this is just Photoshop, but I think I prefer yellow:


Zeffy

Unless someone explicitly told me what that sign meant, I would never figure out that it means "end of road".
Life would be boring if we didn't take an offramp every once in a while

A weird combination of a weather geek, roadgeek, car enthusiast and furry mixed with many anxiety related disorders

Brandon

Quote from: Zeffy on August 02, 2015, 05:54:35 PM
Unless someone explicitly told me what that sign meant, I would never figure out that it means "end of road".

The context for it means a lot.  There's usually a double arrow pointing each way with it.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

jakeroot

Quote from: Brandon on August 02, 2015, 07:05:39 PM
Quote from: Zeffy on August 02, 2015, 05:54:35 PM
Unless someone explicitly told me what that sign meant, I would never figure out that it means "end of road".

The context for it means a lot.  There's usually a double arrow pointing each way with it.

As with any symbol sign, a supplementary plaque would help identify it for the first few years of shelf life.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: Zeffy on August 02, 2015, 05:54:35 PM
Unless someone explicitly told me what that sign meant, I would never figure out that it means "end of road".

When you wind up in the lake, you'll figure it out.

I've seen various signs like this - normally a solid color and generally in front of you at the end of the road.  A car going straight would hit it.  IE: https://goo.gl/maps/le86w

Big John

^^ MUTCD standard is a diamond, either solid red, red with red reflectors or black with red reflectors.

D-Dey65

Quote from: jakeroot on August 02, 2015, 01:25:36 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on August 02, 2015, 11:55:55 AM
Quote from: TEG24601 on July 28, 2015, 03:04:06 PM
The Checkerboard Diamond "End of Road" sign from Canada.

Wonder if the checkboard sign would be better if the yellow was in red instead?

Granted, this is just Photoshop, but I think I prefer yellow:
Okay, what about the black being red instead?

:hmm:


Ian

Quote from: D-Dey65 on August 03, 2015, 08:02:44 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on August 02, 2015, 01:25:36 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on August 02, 2015, 11:55:55 AM
Quote from: TEG24601 on July 28, 2015, 03:04:06 PM
The Checkerboard Diamond "End of Road" sign from Canada.

Wonder if the checkboard sign would be better if the yellow was in red instead?

Granted, this is just Photoshop, but I think I prefer yellow:
Okay, what about the black being red instead?

:hmm:



I figured it would stand out better with a red and white checkerboard pattern.
UMaine graduate, former PennDOT employee, new SoCal resident.
Youtube l Flickr

bzakharin

I think instead of a specific sign to mark a freeway, that information could have been conveyed by the shield. Right now shields basically convey who maintains the road and how it was funded. The average traveler couldn't care less about that. Back when the system of US highways was created, the US shield served a useful purpose. It meant the road will take you to a faraway destination with minimum inconveniences. When Interstates were introduced the Interstate shield now meant that instead, but the US system was never retired. The state and county systems were added too. Now a US or state route can be a freeway, an expressway, a 2-lane surface road, and there is no way to tell. What if instead you had a freeway shield shape, maybe keep the US shield for non-freeway long-distance routes, and the states can do whatever for their non-freeway routes. The same number can change shields if freeway status of the route changes. Much more useful.

Brandon

Riiga, I like what you've done with the no passing symbol in the no passing zone pennant.  It creates a double symbol sign, if you will.  The graphic "no passing" mixed with the pennant's large yellow arrow pointing you back to your side of the road.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

intelati49

Quote from: bzakharin on August 04, 2015, 05:00:15 PM
I think instead of a specific sign to mark a freeway, that information could have been conveyed by the shield. Right now shields basically convey who maintains the road and how it was funded. The average traveler couldn't care less about that. Back when the system of US highways was created, the US shield served a useful purpose. It meant the road will take you to a faraway destination with minimum inconveniences. When Interstates were introduced the Interstate shield now meant that instead, but the US system was never retired. The state and county systems were added too. Now a US or state route can be a freeway, an expressway, a 2-lane surface road, and there is no way to tell. What if instead you had a freeway shield shape, maybe keep the US shield for non-freeway long-distance routes, and the states can do whatever for their non-freeway routes. The same number can change shields if freeway status of the route changes. Much more useful.

Kind of related to this, I have always imagined a Red White and Blue US highway sign for freeway sections. A divided (Expressway) could have another, then put the 2-5 lane city sections as another.

hotdogPi

Quote from: intelati49 on August 05, 2015, 02:15:57 PM
Quote from: bzakharin on August 04, 2015, 05:00:15 PM
I think instead of a specific sign to mark a freeway, that information could have been conveyed by the shield. Right now shields basically convey who maintains the road and how it was funded. The average traveler couldn't care less about that. Back when the system of US highways was created, the US shield served a useful purpose. It meant the road will take you to a faraway destination with minimum inconveniences. When Interstates were introduced the Interstate shield now meant that instead, but the US system was never retired. The state and county systems were added too. Now a US or state route can be a freeway, an expressway, a 2-lane surface road, and there is no way to tell. What if instead you had a freeway shield shape, maybe keep the US shield for non-freeway long-distance routes, and the states can do whatever for their non-freeway routes. The same number can change shields if freeway status of the route changes. Much more useful.

Kind of related to this, I have always imagined a Red White and Blue US highway sign for freeway sections. A divided (Expressway) could have another, then put the 2-5 lane city sections as another.

How would US 4 between Concord NH and Portsmouth NH be handled?

1. Is a red-white-blue US 4 shield redundant with I-93 and I-393 already having an Interstate shield with those colors?
2. Where does the expressway begin on the east end? NH 125? NH 155A? Is the section from NH 125 to NH 16 not an expressway at all despite interchanges?
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

jakeroot

Quote from: 1 on August 05, 2015, 03:07:19 PM
Quote from: intelati49 on August 05, 2015, 02:15:57 PM
Quote from: bzakharin on August 04, 2015, 05:00:15 PM
<clipped for length>

Kind of related to this, I have always imagined a Red White and Blue US highway sign for freeway sections. A divided (Expressway) could have another, then put the 2-5 lane city sections as another.

How would US 4 between Concord NH and Portsmouth NH be handled?

1. Is a red-white-blue US 4 shield redundant with I-93 and I-393 already having an Interstate shield with those colors?
2. Where does the expressway begin on the east end? NH 125? NH 155A? Is the section from NH 125 to NH 16 not an expressway at all despite interchanges?

If we were to change the system so that each type of road were to have a different color, like the UK (blue for motorways, green for primary roads, orange for secondary, etc), we'd probably have to develop a whole new set of shields.

realjd

Quote from: riiga on July 29, 2015, 04:51:13 AM
I'd really like the US to adopt the most important designs in the Vienna Convention as seen in the same image above with the crosswalk sign, priority over another vehicle on a one-lane road, etc. And maybe the biggest change would come in the changing of speed limit signs to add the red circle and the addition of proper mandatory signage.


I disagree about the speed limit signs. Speed limit signs with a red circle are already standard in the US for metric speeds, although they are rarely used. I think that's the way to do it - keep the red circle signs for metric limits but leave the current design for mph limits. It will help eliminate confusion if we ever do switch over.

Australia did the same thing. They used to use American style speed signs, then replaced them with red circle signs when they went metric. That's why they put their red circle speed limits on rectangular signs - they match the size of the old US-style mph signs.



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