News:

Thanks to everyone for the feedback on what errors you encountered from the forum database changes made in Fall 2023. Let us know if you discover anymore.

Main Menu

US-30 through Portland

Started by Quillz, September 07, 2011, 08:02:45 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Quillz



I'm a bit confused how this works out. What I highlighted in blue is what I believe to be the "official" alignment of US-30 through Portland. But what I have in red is also signed as US-30, at least on Google Maps, and uses a number of freeways, eventually meeting the blue portion (off the map), where it becomes a de facto business route for I-84.

I know that the canceled I-505 would have fit between the blue portion of US-30 and I-405, but what about the freeway section in the southern part of the city? Is this signed, and if so, why isn't it something like 30S, or 30 Alt?


corco

#1
Nope- the blue is US-30 Bypass, and the rest is signed as 30


The red line is signed as 30 the whole way






30 bypass from I-205


I'll just direct you to my pages on the matter for signage on mainline 30- part of my aborted attempt to drive every mile of state highway in Oregon

I haven't driven 30 bypass

Quillz

Well, I guess that explains it. I was in Portland during the early part of August, drove by both stretches several times, and somehow never noticed it was signed as "BYPASS."

But does the bypass have reassurance markers? If so, do they also say "BYPASS?"

corco

I believe so- I'm sure one of the Oregonians on here have photos to confirm.

Yeah, it's kind of weird because 30 Bypass is deprecated- you definitely wouldn't use it to bypass Portland anymore!

sp_redelectric

I'm not really sure why U.S. 30 exists at all in Oregon since it is almost entirely multiplexed with I-84 except for west of Portland and a few stretches that are for all intents and purposes I-84 Business Loops (except that Oregon doesn't use Interstate business loops - they are all signed as either U.S. 30, or Oregon 99.)

However...now that U.S. 30 Business has been retired (a.k.a. Sandy Boulevard) why not change U.S. 30 Bypass into U.S. 30 Business?  Or...why is any of it even signed, since virtually nobody locally uses the U.S. 30 designation but rather the individual street names (St. Johns Bridge, Lombard, North Portland Highway, Kilingsworth, Sandy)?  From I-5 to I-205 serves as an expressway but west and east of those two freeways it's nothing more than local city streets.

xonhulu

Quote from: corco on September 07, 2011, 08:19:55 PM
I believe so- I'm sure one of the Oregonians on here have photos to confirm.

It's pretty well-signed along its entire length, except at the very eastern end.  Here are some typical assemblies:







QuoteYeah, it's kind of weird because 30 Bypass is deprecated- you definitely wouldn't use it to bypass Portland anymore!

It's still not too bad as far as a surface-street routing across a major city, but, yeah, you'd do better staying on 30 itself.

Just for sentimentality's sake, here are some shots of the recently-departed BUS 30:






Quillz

Well, there's no real reason to get rid of it. Signing it throughout the state allows it to be a complete, non-broken route (with the segment between Astoria and Portland still well-traveled), and, as you pointed out, it is a de factor business route for I-84. And outside of Oregon, it follows a different, but still close, path from I-84.

xonhulu

Quote from: sp_redelectric on September 07, 2011, 11:28:08 PM
I'm not really sure why U.S. 30 exists at all in Oregon since it is almost entirely multiplexed with I-84 except for west of Portland and a few stretches that are for all intents and purposes I-84 Business Loops (except that Oregon doesn't use Interstate business loops - they are all signed as either U.S. 30, or Oregon 99.)

Suits me fine, though; I really don't like interstate business loops.  But Oregon seems to have no problem with this, as they've continued to sign the concurrency for decades.  Personally, I'd really hate to see the elimination of one of the few cross-country routes remaining.

QuoteHowever...now that U.S. 30 Business has been retired (a.k.a. Sandy Boulevard) why not change U.S. 30 Bypass into U.S. 30 Business?  Or...why is any of it even signed, since virtually nobody locally uses the U.S. 30 designation but rather the individual street names (St. Johns Bridge, Lombard, North Portland Highway, Kilingsworth, Sandy)?  From I-5 to I-205 serves as an expressway but west and east of those two freeways it's nothing more than local city streets.

It is a state highway, so keeping with the post-2002 move to designate routes on all state highways, it would still probably have some kind of route number, anyway.  So it might as well be a bannered branch of US 30, as it connects with the mainline on both ends.

As for BUS vs BYP, I'd say ALT would be an even better designation than either.  BTW, there was once an ALT 30 in Portland, so there's some precedent there.

agentsteel53

has Oregon ever had a business loop or spur?  I've never seen an example of one.
live from sunny San Diego.

http://shields.aaroads.com

jake@aaroads.com

corco

Quotehas Oregon ever had a business loop or spur?  I've never seen an example of one.
?


If you mean interstates, I don't think so

agentsteel53

Quote from: corco on September 08, 2011, 12:08:06 AM
If you mean interstates, I don't think so

that's what I meant - interstate.
live from sunny San Diego.

http://shields.aaroads.com

jake@aaroads.com

Quillz

Quote from: agentsteel53 on September 07, 2011, 11:51:45 PM
has Oregon ever had a business loop or spur?  I've never seen an example of one.
Apparently, Oregon does not sign business routes/loops/spurs. Instead, they use Oregon 99 for I-5 and US-30 for I-84. More or less the same concept, but US-30 is generally signed, while Oregon 99 does not seem to be concurrent with I-5 at all, except in a few short segments.

Bickendan

OR 99 has seven concurrencies with I-5 (eight, counting OR 99E from Albany to Salem), the longest from Grants Pass (exit 58 to Canyonville (exit 93). This does not include an unsigned and unrecognized 'concurrency' from Red Bluff to Ashland...

andytom

Quote from: xonhulu on September 07, 2011, 11:32:14 PM

QuoteYeah, it's kind of weird because 30 Bypass is deprecated- you definitely wouldn't use it to bypass Portland anymore!

It's still not too bad as far as a surface-street routing across a major city, but, yeah, you'd do better staying on 30 itself.


Most of the time, yes.  Rush hour, definitely not.  If I have to get to the airport from Beaverton at 4PM, Barnes-Burnside-Sandy-82nd will get me there a lot faster than 26-405-5-84-205, particularly on a Friday.  On occasion, it's taken me an hour and a half to get from Beaverton to Troutdale by freeway in the Friday PM rush.

mtantillo

I was just
Quote from: andytom on September 08, 2011, 03:45:22 PM
Quote from: xonhulu on September 07, 2011, 11:32:14 PM

QuoteYeah, it's kind of weird because 30 Bypass is deprecated- you definitely wouldn't use it to bypass Portland anymore!

It's still not too bad as far as a surface-street routing across a major city, but, yeah, you'd do better staying on 30 itself.


Most of the time, yes.  Rush hour, definitely not.  If I have to get to the airport from Beaverton at 4PM, Barnes-Burnside-Sandy-82nd will get me there a lot faster than 26-405-5-84-205, particularly on a Friday.  On occasion, it's taken me an hour and a half to get from Beaverton to Troutdale by freeway in the Friday PM rush.


I was just in Portand, and I was horrified at how awful Friday afternoon congestion is there! 

xonhulu

Quote from: andytom on September 08, 2011, 03:45:22 PM
Most of the time, yes.  Rush hour, definitely not.  If I have to get to the airport from Beaverton at 4PM, Barnes-Burnside-Sandy-82nd will get me there a lot faster than 26-405-5-84-205, particularly on a Friday.  On occasion, it's taken me an hour and a half to get from Beaverton to Troutdale by freeway in the Friday PM rush.

Glad I live in Salem.

sp_redelectric

Quote from: agentsteel53 on September 07, 2011, 11:51:45 PM
has Oregon ever had a business loop or spur?  I've never seen an example of one.

Not on the interstate highway system, but there is:

Business U.S. 101 (the old Highway 101 along the south side of Youngs Bay from Warrenton to Astoria)
Business U.S. 20 through Toledo
Business U.S. 30 in Ontario (!!)
Business U.S. 97 in Bend and in Klamath Falls (the one in Bend is relatively new)

Business Oregon 18 through Sheridan and Willamina
Business Oregon 126 in Eugene
Business Oregon 99E in Salem

U.S. 95 Spur connecting Oregon 201 with Weiser, Idaho and U.S. 95

Oregon 104 Spur (unsigned) between U.S. 101 in Warrenton and Hammond

And three suffixed routes:  Oregon 42S, 99W and 99E.


xonhulu

#17
Quote from: sp_redelectric on October 01, 2011, 12:50:43 AM
Business U.S. 101 (the old Highway 101 along the south side of Youngs Bay from Warrenton to Astoria)

I've always thought it should be ALT 101, as it really doesn't serve a major business district.  Either that, or just call it OR 105, using its hidden highway number.

QuoteBusiness U.S. 97 in Bend and in Klamath Falls (the one in Bend is relatively new)

There's also a Business 97 in Redmond, since that city's bypass was completed.

QuoteOregon 104 Spur (unsigned) between U.S. 101 in Warrenton and Hammond

Believe it or not, it was briefly signed, and here's the photo to prove it:



And there's also an unsigned SPUR 86 in Halfway, and an unsigned SPUR 422 in Chiloquin.

xonhulu

Quote from: sp_redelectric on October 01, 2011, 12:50:43 AM
Oregon 104 Spur (unsigned) between U.S. 101 in Warrenton and Hammond

And three suffixed routes:  Oregon 42S, 99W and 99E.

I should add that some ODOT documents (like  http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/TD/TDATA/otms/Route_Hwy_CrossRef.shtml#Oregon_Routes )  refer to the state route spurs with an 'S' suffix, so they are 86S, 104S, and 422S.  So that begs the question: is "42S" short for "42 South" or "42 Spur?"  I had always assumed it was "South," but now I'm not so sure.  Anyone know?

NE2

Quote from: sp_redelectric on October 01, 2011, 12:50:43 AM
Business U.S. 97 in Bend and in Klamath Falls (the one in Bend is relatively new)
The current one in Bend is recent, but before the Bend Parkway there was an older business route on Wall Street and I'm not sure what else.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

OCGuy81

Getting back to the question about US 30 in Portland, last time I drove from Vancouver, WA through north Portland, the signs at the north end of 405, IIRC, read 405/26.  I didn't think US 26 was routed along the Freemont Bridge, but maybe that changed?  26 is mentioned again if you're on th 5 southbound and take 405 north at the southern terminus as well. 

I'm a bit confused by the routing of 26 in Portland.  The hotel I stayed at had signs for West 26 routed on SW Clay Street turning off Naito Parkway.  Google maps shows 26 routed along Market and Clay as well. 

xonhulu

#21
Quote from: OCGuy81 on October 02, 2011, 01:32:14 PM
Getting back to the question about US 30 in Portland, last time I drove from Vancouver, WA through north Portland, the signs at the north end of 405, IIRC, read 405/26.  I didn't think US 26 was routed along the Freemont Bridge, but maybe that changed?  26 is mentioned again if you're on th 5 southbound and take 405 north at the southern terminus as well.  

I'm a bit confused by the routing of 26 in Portland.  The hotel I stayed at had signs for West 26 routed on SW Clay Street turning off Naito Parkway.  Google maps shows 26 routed along Market and Clay as well.  

That 26 shield along Clay St is still there, but I'm pretty sure ODOT now has 26 officially routed on 405.  This document has part of its route listed as Stadium Freeway, which is the hwy name for 405:  http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/TD/TDATA/otms/Route_Hwy_CrossRef.shtml

The sign at the north end of 405 actually reads "405/30," as the Fremont Bridge also carries US 30.  26 first gets mentioned on the other (west ) side of the bridge, at the ramps where 30 splits off.  Here are the respective StreetViews:

http://maps.google.com/?ll=45.548119,-122.678805&spn=0.000941,0.002588&t=m&z=19&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=45.548119,-122.678805&panoid=gJmw4MaRw2quablFB4fzpQ&cbp=12,176.65,,0,-10.35

http://maps.google.com/?ll=45.535378,-122.686214&spn=0.001713,0.010353&t=m&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=45.535356,-122.686194&panoid=Qa9K_-9M_0UHz0NboYaayQ&cbp=12,219.81,,0,-12.68&z=17

sp_redelectric

Quote from: xonhulu on October 01, 2011, 01:27:24 AMI've always thought it should be ALT 101, as it really doesn't serve a major business district.  Either that, or just call it OR 105, using its hidden highway number.

Agreed.  Then again, I wish ODOT would follow WSDOT's lead on secondary highway numbering - 105 would still work.

QuoteBelieve it or not, (Oregon 104S) was briefly signed, and here's the photo to prove it:

I learn something new every day, thanks for the photo!

xonhulu

#23
Quote from: sp_redelectric on October 02, 2011, 04:56:05 PM
Agreed.  Then again, I wish ODOT would follow WSDOT's lead on secondary highway numbering - 105 would still work.

I've seen some maps from local sources (up there) where it was labeled as OR 105, making me briefly wonder if it was actually going to be changed.  But as far as I know, no plan or suggestion has been made for this.  I suspect BUS 101 exists mostly because ODOT maintains the two drawbridges, and to provide access to Fort Clatsop.  But it really doesn't serve any significant business district, those are downtown along US 30 and in Warrenton along US 101's mainline.

QuoteI learn something new every day, thanks for the photo!

Sheer luck I went through while it was up to get the photo, as I don't think it lasted very long!

Bickendan

Quote from: OCGuy81 on October 02, 2011, 01:32:14 PM
Getting back to the question about US 30 in Portland, last time I drove from Vancouver, WA through north Portland, the signs at the north end of 405, IIRC, read 405/26.  I didn't think US 26 was routed along the Freemont Bridge, but maybe that changed?  26 is mentioned again if you're on th 5 southbound and take 405 north at the southern terminus as well. 

I'm a bit confused by the routing of 26 in Portland.  The hotel I stayed at had signs for West 26 routed on SW Clay Street turning off Naito Parkway.  Google maps shows 26 routed along Market and Clay as well. 
US 26 per ODOT leaves the Sunset and heads south on I-405 to SW 6th Ave and along Broadway/Sheridan, 3rd, Arthur, Naito/Kelly to the Ross Island Bridge.
Per AASHTO, US 26 is still on Market/Clay and Naito. The ODOT routing change was never submitted to the Feds.

Missing Bus US 97 from the list: Redmond.
Missing spur route from the list: OR 18 Spur, McMinnville. It's unsigned.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.