Indiana Notes

[codyg1985]

It's about time. It looked to be in rough shape the last time I was on it this past August.

[theline]

Here's the South Bend Tribune article on the project: http://www.southbendtribune.com/news/business/indiana-toll-road-targeted-for-m-in-improvements/article_4ca0677c-c9e7-11e5-913e-7bf3dcd4789d.html

Ken Daley, the CEO of ITR Concession Co., said the project, named 80/90 PUSH, is "almost a complete rebuild" of the 73-mile section of highway. The acronym PUSH stands for Pavement Upgrade for a Superior Highway.

"What's happened previously is what we call a mill-and-fill – that's scraping off the top couple of inches (of pavement) and then putting it back again," Daley said.

With this project, he said, "We're going back down to the structure of the actual road, cracking the concrete that's below and putting in a new bonding layer over the top. Rather than get three to five or perhaps seven years of life out of the pavement, we'll be getting 12 to 14 years of life out of the new pavement. It'll be much smoother and less prone to cracking."

[coatimundi]

I wish I-64 would have went through Vincennes, because it would be a great route to Louisville from Terre Haute. I also think an I-64 paralleling US 50 and 150 would have been better for the state of Indiana. Regionally I think I-64 current route was the best route, but as far as Indiana is concerned I think it would have served more people in Indiana if it would have went through Vincennes. I may be wrong however.

IMO, I-164 would have been located along or near US 41 from Evansville to Vincennes, which would have likely become part of I-69 too, especially since opponents of the existing I-69 corridor were proposing an alternative via US 41 and I-70, which I think would have been chosen for I-69 if I-164 (or even I-63) was already built along the US 41 corridor.

While living in Bloomington, I would almost always use US 50 to go to St. Louis. It was often faster than SR 46 to I-70, especially after I-69 was built up to US 231. I haven't read through the history of Indiana interstates yet (but that's an awesome document, and that's what I'll be reading today), but I would assume I-64 was routed to the south because Evansville has always been the regional center for Kentuckiana yet geography prevented it from crossing the Wabash closer to Evansville. Same reason I-69 was brought through Evansville instead of following US 231 over that nice, new bridge over the Ohio.
What map is that that shows I-64 routed through Vincennes and along 50?

[theline]

A portion of SR-933 in South Bend will be turned over to the city, in an agreement with INDOT. The city will get $4.43 million in the deal. The city wanted control of the paired one-way streets, Main and Michigan/St. Joseph, so it can transform the streets to two-way throughout downtown. This will presumably leave SR-933 in two sections, from Marion Street north to the Michigan state line and Michigan Street east to the Elkhart County line. The city of Mishawaka has been reported previously to be negotiating to take over its rather lengthy portion of the route. The town of Osceola has no interest in taking its portion.

I've been predicting disaster for South Bend's plan to convert the streets. It will reduce two busy four lane streets into a pair of two lane streets.

http://www.southbendtribune.com/news/state-to-transfer-to-south-bend-pay-city-million/article_22f5f31e-cb64-11e5-95ed-a3565a327f22.html

[silverback1065]

A portion of SR-933 in South Bend will be turned over to the city, in an agreement with INDOT. The city will get $4.43 million in the deal. The city wanted control of the paired one-way streets, Main and Michigan/St. Joseph, so it can transform the streets to two-way throughout downtown. This will presumably leave SR-933 in two sections, from Marion Street north to the Michigan state line and Michigan Street east to the Elkhart County line. The city of Mishawaka has been reported previously to be negotiating to take over its rather lengthy portion of the route. The town of Osceola has no interest in taking its portion.

I've been predicting disaster for South Bend's plan to convert the streets. It will reduce two busy four lane streets into a pair of two lane streets.

http://www.southbendtribune.com/news/state-to-transfer-to-south-bend-pay-city-million/article_22f5f31e-cb64-11e5-95ed-a3565a327f22.html

INDOT has been desperate to rid themselves of 933 for years, it's going to be weird seeing 2 sections though.  Maybe they'll do something like Delaware st in downtown indy, 3 lanes in the direction it always did when it was one way, and 1 lane in the opposite direction. 

[seicer]

Disaster? That's what they said for Huntington, W.Va. when they converted a four-lane one-way street to one-lane in each direction with on-street parking and a turning lane. Traffic will funnel onto other side streets to complete their trip - and those trips in downtown and urban areas should be slower, not faster.

[tdindy88]

The Tribune's story on this seemed to indicate that Main Street was going to remain under INDOT control and I thought they were going to make that two-way as well. Could 933 simply be rerouted to Main Street from Sample Road north to Marion Street to maintain a single routing? Or was there something there I missed.

[theline]

The Tribune's story on this seemed to indicate that Main Street was going to remain under INDOT control and I thought they were going to make that two-way as well. Could 933 simply be rerouted to Main Street from Sample Road north to Marion Street to maintain a single routing? Or was there something there I missed.

You're right, tdindy88. The story was updated about 2 hours ago with the additional information about Main Street still being part of 933. The plan all along has been for both Main and Michigan/St. Joseph to be converted to angle parking, with one through lane in each direction, plus a center turn lane. I presume that this will still be done to Main, though we will have to see if the agreement with INDOT revised that plan at all. If Main remains a part of 933, then the route will remain continuous through downtown South Bend, though with far less capacity. It seems asinine to have 933 four lanes outside downtown and then shrink it to two through lanes downtown.

[silverback1065]

i would think 933 will still be continuous and signed.  i wonder if they will still sign it as one of indiana's few business routes.

[NWI_Irish96]

The routing of 933 already doesn't make sense, now it will make less.  If you're heading west on 933 from Mishawaka, want to get downtown, and know the area, you stay on Linconway/Monroe to Michigan instead of exiting onto Sample.  Now, the NB routing is going to take you a block farther west than you need to go to Main.

Oh, and what are they going to do with the Main/Michigan/Marion intersection?  It's designed for a one-way pair, not for two two-way streets?

[theline]

Several roundabouts are in the works for this project. I think one of them will replace the Main-Michigan-Marion intersection. It now appears that 933 will remain continuous, though rerouted, through downtown, but leaving just bits and pieces of signed highways with random ends is nothing new to INDOT:

• The Marshall County-St. Joseph County portion of SR-931 has it's northern terminus at the South Bend city limit. Some time I'll drive down there and get a pic of the END sign.
• The southern (eastern) terminus of SR-933 is at the Elkhart County line.
• SR-332 has its east end at a random street in Muncie, though the road it is on (McGalliard) continues on as a major road through Muncie.
• Then there's the awkward disappearance of SR-25 in Lafayette.

Do I need to go on?

[silverback1065]

Several roundabouts are in the works for this project. I think one of them will replace the Main-Michigan-Marion intersection. It now appears that 933 will remain continuous, though rerouted, through downtown, but leaving just bits and pieces of signed highways with random ends is nothing new to INDOT:

• The Marshall County-St. Joseph County portion of SR-931 has it's northern terminus at the South Bend city limit. Some time I'll drive down there and get a pic of the END sign.
• The southern (eastern) terminus of SR-933 is at the Elkhart County line.
• SR-332 has its east end at a random street in Muncie, though the road it is on (McGalliard) continues on as a major road through Muncie.
• Then there's the awkward disappearance of SR-25 in Lafayette.

Do I need to go on?

I'll add one more the completely useless SR 662, also I thought SR 931 was handed over to the counties it went through up there last year, did the deal fall through?

[US 41]

Several roundabouts are in the works for this project. I think one of them will replace the Main-Michigan-Marion intersection. It now appears that 933 will remain continuous, though rerouted, through downtown, but leaving just bits and pieces of signed highways with random ends is nothing new to INDOT:

• The Marshall County-St. Joseph County portion of SR-931 has it's northern terminus at the South Bend city limit. Some time I'll drive down there and get a pic of the END sign.
• The southern (eastern) terminus of SR-933 is at the Elkhart County line.
• SR-332 has its east end at a random street in Muncie, though the road it is on (McGalliard) continues on as a major road through Muncie.
• Then there's the awkward disappearance of SR-25 in Lafayette.

Do I need to go on?

I'll add one more the completely useless SR 662, also I thought SR 931 was handed over to the counties it went through up there last year, did the deal fall through?

IMO counties have no business taking care of 4 lane highways. I hope it remains SR 931 for a very long time.

[silverback1065]

Ya I agree, like sagamore and binford Blvd

Nexus 6P

[rawmustard]

...also I thought SR 931 was handed over to the counties it went through up there last year, did the deal fall through?

As far as I know it begins at the Marshall-St Joseph line and, as mentioned above, ends at the South Bend city limit. There was only one set of reassurance markers at SR 4.

[US 41]

Ya I agree, like sagamore and binford Blvd

Nexus 6P

And now the former US 52 in Lafayette and pretty soon US 40 west of West Terre Haute. Just wait until these roads need redone. County roads in Indiana are already pretty bad for the most part, does the state really think that these counties can handle 4 lane highways. The only reason the counties and towns across Indiana are doing it is because they are getting immediate money, and by the time this problem (the roads needing fixed) comes around the current people in office will be long gone and it won't be their problem.

If I remember right, the mayor of Terre Haute (Duke Bennett) vetoed the city council's vote of maintaining US 40 through Terre Haute, but then the city council overrided his veto.

[silverback1065]

Indot did the same with sr 22, gave kokomo barely enough money to mill and resurface the road.

Nexus 6P

[NWI_Irish96]

Several roundabouts are in the works for this project. I think one of them will replace the Main-Michigan-Marion intersection. It now appears that 933 will remain continuous, though rerouted, through downtown, but leaving just bits and pieces of signed highways with random ends is nothing new to INDOT:

• The Marshall County-St. Joseph County portion of SR-931 has it's northern terminus at the South Bend city limit. Some time I'll drive down there and get a pic of the END sign.
• The southern (eastern) terminus of SR-933 is at the Elkhart County line.
• SR-332 has its east end at a random street in Muncie, though the road it is on (McGalliard) continues on as a major road through Muncie.
• Then there's the awkward disappearance of SR-25 in Lafayette.

Do I need to go on?

I'll add one more the completely useless SR 662, also I thought SR 931 was handed over to the counties it went through up there last year, did the deal fall through?

Marshall County agreed to take control of their portion of Old US 31, but St Joseph County did not want to so that part is SR 931.  I thought it read that it was going to be unsigned, but maybe they decided to sign it.

[US 41]

St. Joseph County is smart then. Also what's up with SR 4? Is INDOT really that pathetic not to extend it east to the new US 31?

[tdindy88]

I believe it is extended east to the new US 31. The highway sign at the exit there does say SR 4, not TO SR 4.

[US 41]

I believe it is extended east to the new US 31. The highway sign at the exit there does say SR 4, not TO SR 4.

You're probably right. On Google Maps it shows SR 4 ending at SR 931 (Old 31).

[mukade]

I believe it is extended east to the new US 31. The highway sign at the exit there does say SR 4, not TO SR 4.

You're probably right. On Google Maps it shows SR 4 ending at SR 931 (Old 31).

SR 4 was extended to the new US 31 before the freeway opened. I think that actually happened in 2012 or 2013. The freeway opened in 2014. That extension required a rebuild of the road. It had been a narrow county road before.

[mukade]

Indot did the same with sr 22, gave kokomo barely enough money to mill and resurface the road.

Nexus 6P

But they also gave the access to additional Federal grant money. If i remember right, it was around $5M which could be used anywhere in the city.

[cjw2001]

I believe it is extended east to the new US 31. The highway sign at the exit there does say SR 4, not TO SR 4.

You're probably right. On Google Maps it shows SR 4 ending at SR 931 (Old 31).

I've extended SR 4 on Google Maps over to the new US 31.   May take a day for the changes to show up.

[US 41]

I believe it is extended east to the new US 31. The highway sign at the exit there does say SR 4, not TO SR 4.

You're probably right. On Google Maps it shows SR 4 ending at SR 931 (Old 31).

I've extended SR 4 on Google Maps over to the new US 31.   May take a day for the changes to show up.

Off topic a little, but do you need an account to update Google Maps?