Tulsa Trip Notes

[Scott5114]

And of course Cherokee Curve is idiotic.

[bugo]

Welcome to Oklahoma! Now do you see why I complain so much?

The signage issue is a statewide issue. Unlike most states, ODOT and OTA don't have a 'house style' giving consistency from sign to sign. Unlike New Mexico, this seldom results in anything cool, and usually just results in signs that make you want to pour bleach in your eyes.

ALT US-412 (designation changed from Scenic a few years back) is maintained by ODOT. It was formerly SH-33 before US-412 was extended into Oklahoma.

I can't speak to Tulsa arterials–Tulsa resident bugo would be more qualified there–but yes, Tulsa's freeways are an unholy mess. They are slowly getting a little better over time as construction occurs–back in 2007 or so, I-44 through Tulsa (the Skelly Drive) was a deathtrap. Oklahoma City's freeway system is a little better than Tulsa's, but it still has its share of OH SHIT! moments.

I always recommend to people without business in Tulsa to spend the extra few bucks to bypass the whole thing on the Creek Turnpike (secret SH-364).

OK 364 isn't secret. It's fully signed.

[Scott5114]

Welcome to Oklahoma! Now do you see why I complain so much?

The signage issue is a statewide issue. Unlike most states, ODOT and OTA don't have a 'house style' giving consistency from sign to sign. Unlike New Mexico, this seldom results in anything cool, and usually just results in signs that make you want to pour bleach in your eyes.

ALT US-412 (designation changed from Scenic a few years back) is maintained by ODOT. It was formerly SH-33 before US-412 was extended into Oklahoma.

I can't speak to Tulsa arterials–Tulsa resident bugo would be more qualified there–but yes, Tulsa's freeways are an unholy mess. They are slowly getting a little better over time as construction occurs–back in 2007 or so, I-44 through Tulsa (the Skelly Drive) was a deathtrap. Oklahoma City's freeway system is a little better than Tulsa's, but it still has its share of OH SHIT! moments.

I always recommend to people without business in Tulsa to spend the extra few bucks to bypass the whole thing on the Creek Turnpike (secret SH-364).

OK 364 isn't secret. It's fully signed.

It wasn't signed at all when I posted that. Over a year ago.

[bugo]

ah

[Scott5114]

It really depends on what they're attempting to accomplish with the numbering. My guess is that they have had complaints about the small text on the existing turnpike shields; if there's only one turnpike in a given area it's fine, but where they intersect it can become needlessly difficult to distinguish.

So assuming the point of the numbers is to make the turnpikes distinguishable, there's no need to add anything to the turnpikes that I-44 and US-412 follow because those highways differentiate between them. I'm hoping if they add more numbers they follow the existing 3xx convention, renumber SH-7 Spur as 307 (or whatever the Chickasaw Turnpike ends up with), and it would be really nice if we could renumber SH-325 to SH-456 while we're at it, so that all 3xx numbers are toll roads.

It would be cool if we copied Florida's old convention for toll roads and changed the cleaver to be in red on toll roads, but I doubt that would ever happen. 

[Scott5114]

Well, the 7-Spur situation is the only time that has happened in Oklahoma history. As mentioned before, the Chickasaw is the only turnpike that had specific authorization to be turned over to ODOT in its enabling legislation. Any other turnpike transfer would have to start with a bill being passed to allow the transfer to happen. The 7-Spur number really annoys me, though, since we have the established convention of letter suffixes for highways like this in Oklahoma. It should have been 7B.

The 364/351 thing came out of left field and OTA never really explained what it was hoping to accomplish there. Par for the course for transportation in Oklahoma...

[Scott5114]

The Chickasaw has never come close to paying for itself.

Which is kind of the intent. The turnpikes are meant to provide a way for roads to be built that ODOT could never justify the expense for. Thus why the Cherokee Turnpike was built when ODOT couldn't get a SH-33 bypass done on their own. The Turner was originally intended to be turned back when the revenue bonds were paid, but Oklahoma voters allowed turnpike revenue to be spent on any turnpike in the system and so the plan changed. The Turner and Will Rogers basically carry the rest of the system.

[rte66man]

The Chickasaw has never come close to paying for itself.

Which is kind of the intent. The turnpikes are meant to provide a way for roads to be built that ODOT could never justify the expense for. Thus why the Cherokee Turnpike was built when ODOT couldn't get a SH-33 bypass done on their own. The Turner was originally intended to be turned back when the revenue bonds were paid, but Oklahoma voters allowed turnpike revenue to be spent on any turnpike in the system and so the plan changed. The Turner and Will Rogers basically carry the rest of the system.

The Bailey breaks even because of the heavy traffic from OKC to Chickasha.