Proposal to toll I-15 in AZ

[Brandon]

Because demand for motor fuel is inelastic

Bunk.  The past few years have proven that the demand is very much elastic.

That said, tolls are a much better option, IMHO, than either raising a gas tax or using a miles-drive type taxation system.

[J N Winkler]

Because demand for motor fuel is inelastic

Bunk.  The past few years have proven that the demand is very much elastic.

They have done nothing of the kind.

Take a look at OHPI statistics for the last three years that are available--2007, 2008, and 2009.  Remember also that gas prices spiked in 2008.

In these tables, total fuel consumption (all classes of vehicle) clusters tightly around 170 million gallons in all three years, ranging from a low of 168 million gallons (2009) to a high of 176 million gallons (2007).  Average miles driven annually per light-duty short-wheelbase vehicle (basically, passenger cars plus pickups and SUVs) clusters tightly around 10,000 miles in all three years, and annual fuel consumption per such vehicle clusters tightly around 440 gallons.

Bottom line:  a factor of two increase in fuel prices has failed to cause a factor of two decrease in fuel consumption or miles driven, as one would expect if demand were elastic.  There was a lot of buzz about "staycations" in 2008 as a result of high fuel prices, but it was just that--buzz.  In reality very little mileage is genuinely discretionary.  The difficulties state DOTs were having financing construction projects in 2008 had more to do with high prices for input materials like asphalt than with any changes in the revenue situation.

That said, tolls are a much better option, IMHO, than either raising a gas tax or using a miles-drive type taxation system.

Tolls, like motor fuel taxes and VMT taxation, are a tool that has a range of appropriate uses.  Tolls tend to work well for defined corridors which carry volumes of traffic that are either very high or insensitive to price.  Tolls do not work well on a systemwide basis because the costs of collecting toll at infrequently travelled points in the system overwhelm the revenues gained thereby.  And in corridors which are just barely self-liquidable through tolls (like SH 130 in Texas), the choice of tolls as a financing mechanism tends to promote a buildup of underutilized capacity because traffic demand in those corridors tends to be elastic with respect to price.

[corco]

Wouldn't I-15 in Arizona pretty much be the definition of a well-defined corridor that is insensitive to price?

[NE2]

And Utah's refusal to improve the Lincoln Highway continues to have repercussions
(To be fair going via Bishop is about 100 miles longer than via Vegas; the distance was really only comparable before the Vegas-Barstow cutoff was built in the 1920s.)

[J N Winkler]

Wouldn't I-15 in Arizona pretty much be the definition of a well-defined corridor that is insensitive to price?

It is a well-defined corridor.  I am less sure about sensitivity to price, but I am willing to grant that point on the basis that highway corridors running through thinly populated rural areas tend to have low elasticities.

My objections to the toll have more to do with the potential for retaliation, the fact that adding infrastructure for toll collection adds to the base cost of the work that has to be done, and the general observation that what Arizona DOT wants to charge tolls for (bridge replacements, etc.) is a general systematic need that seems to have surfaced only now, in this particular location, because federal funding has come up short and ADOT sees a captive audience.

I-15 in Arizona may very well be a toll-viable corridor, but I don't think enough information has been published yet for us to make that determination.  I am sure ADOT has an accounting in hand which estimates (at minimum) full liquidation of the reconditioning and collection infrastructure through tolls, but those scenarios often don't stand contact with reality.

Another question to think about:  does Arizona DOT really want to collect tolls on I-15?  Could this not be, for example, a way to send a message indirectly to Congress--"If you don't increase transportation funding, this is what we will be forced to resort to?"  ADOT does not currently collect tolls anywhere else (as far as I know), so even a franchising agreement would require some organizational changes.

[Alps]

Keep in mind that any recent analysis has to account for general economic conditions as well. An economic downturn results in less frivolous driving (vacations, Sunday outings, etc.) and therefore less mileage. On the other hand, our country is always growing, so there's an upward pressure in terms of number of vehicles on the road. I would say there is a very limited elasticity with regard to gas prices, not zero, but it's foolish to think it would be 1:1.

[J N Winkler]

Returning to the I-15 tolling proposal specifically, a Google search on {ADOT I-15 tolling plan} turns up a number of interesting hits, including Arizona DOT's application.  Governor Herbert (Utah) has already come out against the plan publicly.  A related article in the Arizona Republic suggests turnpike mania in Arizona extends not just to I-15 but also to SR 189 (which connects I-19 to the Mariposa port of entry just west of Nogales), for which widening is planned to accommodate a projected onslaught of Mexican trucks, and a proposed I-10 reliever route in the Phoenix-Tucson corridor.

It looks like Arizona DOT is looking at PPP deals for all three corridors, with tolls not actually being put on I-15 until after it is rehabilitated.  Arizona DOT also claims, in its application, to have advised Nevada DOT and Utah DOT of what it wants to do with I-15, and to have obtained their acquiescence.  In light of Governor Herbert's public position on I-15 tolling this claim has to be viewed with some skepticism.

[texaskdog]

I think every state boundary should be looked at and "right-sized"

[J N Winkler]

Utah:  You don't do anything useful with the bit north of the Grand Canyon.  You don't like to build roads there, and you barely maintain the roads you have there.  We have had to lend you money to build your part of I-15 so we could connect to Las Vegas and points south.  Why don't you give us your northern strip?

Arizona:  (unprintable)

[thenetwork]

FWIW, I drove both ways along Arizona's portion of I-15 in the last couple of days.  With this thread in my mind as I drove it, here are some of my random musings...

1)  The only thing I saw that needs to be rehabbed is the pavement.  The bridges seemed to have normal wear and tear, and were still probably better than a lot of bridges in colder climates.  It looks as though AzDOT is skimpy when it comes to repaving projects there, just re-paving one lane in short stretches where needed, but ISTR I-10 between Phoenix & Tucson in the same rag-tag condition.  In my opinion, they need to start rebuilding the older roads that need it before they spring for yet another freeway around Phoenix.

2) Are the Virgin River bridges narrow with little to no shoulders?  Absoulutely.  But I don't think they need to rehab them or widen them for the sake of widening them (if this is what AzDOT is really concerned about).  It is much cheaper to have Arizona, (or even hire off-duty NV or UT highway patrolmen) to keep drivers to the posted speeds using an Arizona Highway Patrol car than to build, staff and maintain toll booths so they can widen the bridges another 30 feet..

3) One of the "requirements" AzDOT makes to I-15 travelers is that all commercial vehicles are "required" to check in at the Port of Entry at the AZ/UT line before they can exit I-15 for the few destinations in NW Arizona.  You kind of wonder how that can really be enforced, especially any trucks coming to/from Nevada who are only going to/from destinations south or the Virgin River Gorge.

[Rover_0]

Since it relates to I-15 through the Virgin River Gorge, apparently Arizona will give $11 Million to repave I-15. It's not a huge thing, but it's looking less and less like the tolling will ever become reality; according to the article, there are already talks to rehabilitate bridges and the like.

[CenVlyDave]

I say tansfer the gorge stretch of I-15 to Utah, in fact just carve out a square of land that includes the gorge, but not much land south or east of it and transfer the box area to Utah.

[sr641]

I like the idea of tolling Interstate 15 right there. It doesn't really serve AZ in any way and the toll shouldn't be too bad; it's only 15 miles of interstate.

[national highway 1]

What would be the point of that? That would be an obstacle to SLC-Vegas traffic; people shunpiking that would have to take US 93 and US 50 just to avoid that toll. I don't mind transferring that section of I-15 in AZ to maintenance crews from Nevada, it could be a bit cheaper because it's not far from any major population centers there.

[sr641]

What would be the point of that? That would be an obstacle to SLC-Vegas traffic; people shunpiking that would have to take US 93 and US 50 just to avoid that toll. I don't mind transferring that section of I-15 in AZ to maintenance crews from Nevada, it could be a bit cheaper because it's not far from any major population centers there.

If you don't have enough money to pay a 1 dollar toll you shouldn't be going to Las Vegas.

[agentsteel53]

What would be the point of that? That would be an obstacle to SLC-Vegas traffic; people shunpiking that would have to take US 93 and US 50 just to avoid that toll. I don't mind transferring that section of I-15 in AZ to maintenance crews from Nevada, it could be a bit cheaper because it's not far from any major population centers there.

using I-80 is shorter than US-50 due to that strange jog that US-50 does near I-15.

but still, we are talking about a difference of 60 miles.  that's about $5 worth of gas, not to mention the value of your time.  a one dollar toll seems to not be anything worth avoiding.

[kphoger]

What would be the point of that? That would be an obstacle to SLC-Vegas traffic; people shunpiking that would have to take US 93 and US 50 just to avoid that toll. I don't mind transferring that section of I-15 in AZ to maintenance crews from Nevada, it could be a bit cheaper because it's not far from any major population centers there.

using I-80 is shorter than US-50 due to that strange jog that US-50 does near I-15.

but still, we are talking about a difference of 60 miles.  that's about $5 worth of gas, not to mention the value of your time.  a one dollar toll seems to not be anything worth avoiding.

Truckers?  Same one-dollar toll?  Of course, they use more fuel too...

[agentsteel53]

Truckers?  Same one-dollar toll?  Of course, they use more fuel too...

probably not, but figure 8mpg instead of 35 ...

[kkt]

Putting tolls on previously free sections of interstate should be out of the question.  Maybe if Arizona wants to refund to Uncle Sam all the money that they ever received to construct that route or maintain it up until now, plus interest.

Gas taxes should be set to allow highways to be maintained without tolls.  If the Federal gas tax isn't doing it, states should cooperate to share gas tax revenue for a route that spends only a little distance in one state.

Tolls are an inefficient way to collect money.