IN US 31 Kokomo Bypass Upgrade Report

Started by mukade, June 26, 2011, 04:54:46 PM

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monty

Quote from: mukade on June 02, 2014, 05:48:36 AM
Quote from: vtk on June 01, 2014, 11:47:57 PM
Local traffic shifting to the new road isn't going to hurt businesses on the old road.  The locals still know those businesses are there, and they'll go there when they want to patronize those businesses.

Remember, this is talking about restaurants and gas stations so it means that they have alternatives. The two businesses referenced on the south side dropped 15-25%, and there is less to draw people up north.

Some of the restaurants and gas stations that were dependent on the through traffic along IN 931 in Kokomo will suffer, although I doubt they'll fail.  Driving behaviors are being changed in the region.  Most retail will be okay.  They've had years to prepare for this moment. Kokomo traditionally draws a lot of retail business from the surrounding area and that isn't likely to change and it may even improve for a few as an improved US 31 will make it easier to get to Kokomo from the north.

While I am sympathetic to business concerns, the Marathon station had stood empty for probably a decade at IN 26 & old US 31 before the owner (that was quoted) recently opened it back up, even though the Kokomo project was full steam ahead at the time.  It makes sense that the traffic at that intersection has dropped 25% on IN 931, although IN 26 traffic there seems to have increased a bit.  It's really difficult to get in and out of the Marathon station from IN 26.
monty


theline

One quote from the Kokomo mayor in the WSBT report really stood out to me:
Quote"Not to say we never would or for a certain reason develop out there, but if it's just a fast food franchise or fast food chain that wants to go on to the virgin property out there and transfer their asset from one part of Kokomo to the other, we're obviously not interested in that happening,"  said Kokomo Mayor Greg Goodnight.

I'm hoping he misspoke. The mayor should be interested in helping any businesses that depended on intercity traffic relocate to where the traffic is going. He should be interested in promoting business anywhere in Kokomo, not just along 931. It sounds like he'd rather see a business on 931 fail, rather than moving to the new 31 and succeeding.

mukade

Quote from: monty on June 03, 2014, 10:21:59 AM
Quote from: mukade on June 02, 2014, 05:48:36 AM
Quote from: vtk on June 01, 2014, 11:47:57 PM
Local traffic shifting to the new road isn't going to hurt businesses on the old road.  The locals still know those businesses are there, and they'll go there when they want to patronize those businesses.

Remember, this is talking about restaurants and gas stations so it means that they have alternatives. The two businesses referenced on the south side dropped 15-25%, and there is less to draw people up north.

Some of the restaurants and gas stations that were dependent on the through traffic along IN 931 in Kokomo will suffer, although I doubt they'll fail.  Driving behaviors are being changed in the region.  Most retail will be okay.  They've had years to prepare for this moment. Kokomo traditionally draws a lot of retail business from the surrounding area and that isn't likely to change and it may even improve for a few as an improved US 31 will make it easier to get to Kokomo from the north.

While I am sympathetic to business concerns, the Marathon station had stood empty for probably a decade at IN 26 & old US 31 before the owner (that was quoted) recently opened it back up, even though the Kokomo project was full steam ahead at the time.  It makes sense that the traffic at that intersection has dropped 25% on IN 931, although IN 26 traffic there seems to have increased a bit.  It's really difficult to get in and out of the Marathon station from IN 26.

Of course some businesses will fail. How can they sustain such a drop in business when some were on the edge to begin with? I would expect one or more restaurants on the north side will go pretty quickly, but weak ones elsewhere will as well. The folly is that the city does not accept that things changed - you can't pretend they did not. Most highway travelers will no longer visit local restaurants and gas stations as long as they are a mile or more from the new highway. Most cities would be wise enough to want these replaced rather than losing them completely.

I do agree the Marathon station owner had ample warning a new road would soon affect his business.

Quote from: theline on June 03, 2014, 05:13:25 PM
One quote from the Kokomo mayor in the WSBT report really stood out to me:
Quote?Not to say we never would or for a certain reason develop out there, but if it?s just a fast food franchise or fast food chain that wants to go on to the virgin property out there and transfer their asset from one part of Kokomo to the other, we're obviously not interested in that happening,? said Kokomo Mayor Greg Goodnight.

I'm hoping he misspoke. The mayor should be interested in helping any businesses that depended on intercity traffic relocate to where the traffic is going. He should be interested in promoting business anywhere in Kokomo, not just along 931. It sounds like he'd rather see a business on 931 fail, rather than moving to the new 31 and succeeding.

Nope. I am afraid that is what he really thinks.

mukade

Opening of new US 31 appears to have had little effect on local business (Kokomo Tribune)

I personally think this is an article that supports the narrative the city wants to believe. If somewhere between a third and a half of the traffic bypasses the city, business certainly will be impacted for those that rely on highway traffic. The article cites businesses that would be expected to gain business (Bob Evans which is in a favorable location, a furniture store that moved to a prime location, and a gas station ten miles south of town). It also talks about Mancino's which relies on local clientele, not highway traffic.

The businesses to be most concerned about are the ones that truly relied on highway traffic - for example on old US 31 north of the main business area.

The most interesting thing in the article is that services signs will eventually go up:
Quote
Many businesses are eagerly awaiting the vegetation along the new 31 to take good enough hold that INDOT will approve the blue commercial information signs which will allow owners to advertise at which exits they are located. Restaurants, gas, stations, hotels, hospitals, colleges and universities and a variety of other attractions will be allowed to purchase spots on those signs.

bmeiser

I suppose that explains why other signs (creeks/rivers, enhanced mile markers, etc) haven't gone in yet: waiting for the grass to grow.

monty

I noticed this morning that INDOT has erected temporary orange exit signs at SR 26 and US 31.  The permanent signs at SR 26 and several others in the new Kokomo segment were blown down with wind aided by snow, ice and even tornadoes in the past year.  Some were down even before the highway was opened.  I was happy to see this as drivers new to the route had limited (or no) way to identify several exits.
monty

monty

I noticed that crews are setting new posts to mount the local business' directory signs.


iPhone
monty

mukade

At least some are up now.

Are they also going to finally replace the green signs that blew down?

ysuindy

Went through Tipton County earlier this week and noticed that while no construction has started at the state route 38 intersection with US 31, both the Marathon on the northeast corner and the Sherrill's "Eat Here Get Gas" on the southeast corner are vacant.

The Flamingo Motel continues to operate just south of the intersection on the west side of 31.

I see from the INDOT website that bids were to be opened sometime this month with construction complete by the end of 2016.  It will be interesting to see if work starts this  year.

The Ghostbuster

Is there any timeline for when US 31 might be completely freeway from Indianapolis to South Bend? Oh, and save the Interstate designation suggestions for Fictional Highways.

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on August 21, 2015, 04:57:05 PM
Is there any timeline for when US 31 might be completely freeway from Indianapolis to South Bend? Oh, and save the Interstate designation suggestions for Fictional Highways.

Pence has said that he wants it done, but that's as far as things have gotten.  There are many other projects that need to be done before this.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

theline

Quote from: ysuindy on August 21, 2015, 04:20:23 PM
Went through Tipton County earlier this week and noticed that while no construction has started at the state route 38 intersection with US 31, both the Marathon on the northeast corner and the Sherrill's "Eat Here Get Gas" on the southeast corner are vacant.

The Flamingo Motel continues to operate just south of the intersection on the west side of 31.

I see from the INDOT website that bids were to be opened sometime this month with construction complete by the end of 2016.  It will be interesting to see if work starts this  year.
That's SR 28, just to set the record straight. SR 38 interchange has been done for awhile.

ysuindy

Quote from: theline on August 21, 2015, 06:30:44 PM
Quote from: ysuindy on August 21, 2015, 04:20:23 PM
Went through Tipton County earlier this week and noticed that while no construction has started at the state route 38 intersection with US 31, both the Marathon on the northeast corner and the Sherrill's "Eat Here Get Gas" on the southeast corner are vacant.

The Flamingo Motel continues to operate just south of the intersection on the west side of 31.

I see from the INDOT website that bids were to be opened sometime this month with construction complete by the end of 2016.  It will be interesting to see if work starts this  year.
That's SR 28, just to set the record straight. SR 38 interchange has been done for awhile.
p   Thanks.  Fat thumb disease. Especially since I get on and off 31 at 38. (Stops and rechecks numbers before hitting Post)

mukade

Quote from: ysuindy on August 21, 2015, 04:20:23 PM
Went through Tipton County earlier this week and noticed that while no construction has started at the state route 28 intersection with US 31, both the Marathon on the northeast corner and the Sherrill's "Eat Here Get Gas" on the southeast corner are vacant.

The Flamingo Motel continues to operate just south of the intersection on the west side of 31.

I see from the INDOT website that bids were to be opened sometime this month with construction complete by the end of 2016.  It will be interesting to see if work starts this  year.

Sherrill's is still open. The two other former businesses on the SE corner are both closed. The letting date for the interchange contract is actually 11/10/2015 so construction would likely begin in the spring.

ysuindy

Quote from: mukade on August 23, 2015, 03:23:35 PM
Quote from: ysuindy on August 21, 2015, 04:20:23 PM
Went through Tipton County earlier this week and noticed that while no construction has started at the state route 28 intersection with US 31, both the Marathon on the northeast corner and the Sherrill's "Eat Here Get Gas" on the southeast corner are vacant.

The Flamingo Motel continues to operate just south of the intersection on the west side of 31.

I see from the INDOT website that bids were to be opened sometime this month with construction complete by the end of 2016.  It will be interesting to see if work starts this  year.

Sherrill's is still open. The two other former businesses on the SE corner are both closed. The letting date for the interchange contract is actually 11/10/2015 so construction would likely begin in the spring.

Thanks for the update. I did not notice any cars or other activity when I went by on Wednesday afternoon, so I presumed they were closed. I've never stopped - perhaps I should get in there once just to say I did.


mukade

Quote from: ysuindy on August 24, 2015, 12:18:41 PM
Quote from: mukade on August 23, 2015, 03:23:35 PM
Quote from: ysuindy on August 21, 2015, 04:20:23 PM
Went through Tipton County earlier this week and noticed that while no construction has started at the state route 28 intersection with US 31, both the Marathon on the northeast corner and the Sherrill's "Eat Here Get Gas" on the southeast corner are vacant.

The Flamingo Motel continues to operate just south of the intersection on the west side of 31.

I see from the INDOT website that bids were to be opened sometime this month with construction complete by the end of 2016.  It will be interesting to see if work starts this  year.

Sherrill's is still open. The two other former businesses on the SE corner are both closed. The letting date for the interchange contract is actually 11/10/2015 so construction would likely begin in the spring.

Thanks for the update. I did not notice any cars or other activity when I went by on Wednesday afternoon, so I presumed they were closed. I've never stopped - perhaps I should get in there once just to say I did.



I think they are open breakfast and lunch only, but they will have to close down soon.

mobilene

Sad about Sherrill's eventually closing. They make a good bowl of chili.
jim grey | Indianapolis, Indiana

mukade

Quote from: mobilene on August 27, 2015, 09:08:06 AM
Sad about Sherrill's eventually closing. They make a good bowl of chili.

I assume that is where the "get gas" part of their name comes from?

GCrites

The real question is what the Beach Boys think of this project.

monty

Sherrill's and Day's Marathon are now closed.  These were mainstays in Tipton for many years.  I believe the "Eat here and get Gas" sign may be saved as a museum piece.

INDOT recently erected some new signs on the on ramps around the new Kokomo segment prohibiting un-motorized vehicles, bicycles and pedestrians.  This was lacking in comparison to the new Plymouth - South Bend segment.  I'm surprised that farm implements are not prohibited as per the new signs.  I've seen tractors driving the highway on this stretch.   

The wind damaged signs have not yet been erected.  How long does it take?  Several were taken down by the tornado right when the highway opened.

The 28 & 31 interchange should be let for bids this fall with hopes to be complete (or at least open) in 2016.  SR 28 is to be closed for 90 days.

The US 31 Coalition is still pushing to complete the Indy to South Bend corridor to interstate / freeway standards.  INDOT funding is going to be the greatest obstacle.  It would make sense that the rural SR 38 to Kokomo segment will be first in line for conversion with the Tipton interchange up next.  The stoplights at Baker's Corner and Division Road along with an overpass at the NS RR near Tipton all likely candidates for improvements.
monty

mukade

Quote from: monty on August 28, 2015, 08:15:43 PM
The wind damaged signs have not yet been erected.  How long does it take?  Several were taken down by the tornado right when the highway opened.

That is a disgrace, but I-69 down south also had a lot down back in June. The tornado hit right before the US 31 freeway in Kokomo opened so motorists have never seen two of them.

Quote from: monty on August 28, 2015, 08:15:43 PM
It would make sense that the rural SR 38 to Kokomo segment will be first in line for conversion with the Tipton interchange up next.  The stoplights at Baker's Corner and Division Road along with an overpass at the NS RR near Tipton all likely candidates for improvements.

I would say SR 38 to just north of US 24 need an upgrade that removes all traffic lights. The intersections at SR 18 and SR 218 have had fatal accidents. I assume the other two Peru traffic lights have also had their share. The Miami County US 31/Division Rd. intersection (with no traffic light) is also a death trap.

There are way too many driveways off of US 31 between SR 38 and US 24.

monty

Quote from: mukade on August 28, 2015, 08:38:19 PM
Quote from: monty on August 28, 2015, 08:15:43 PM
The wind damaged signs have not yet been erected.  How long does it take?  Several were taken down by the tornado right when the highway opened.

That is a disgrace, but I-69 down south also had a lot down back in June. The tornado hit right before the US 31 freeway in Kokomo opened so motorists have never seen two of them.

Quote from: monty on August 28, 2015, 08:15:43 PM
It would make sense that the rural SR 38 to Kokomo segment will be first in line for conversion with the Tipton interchange up next.  The stoplights at Baker's Corner and Division Road along with an overpass at the NS RR near Tipton all likely candidates for improvements.

I would say SR 38 to just north of US 24 need an upgrade that removes all traffic lights. The intersections at SR 18 and SR 218 have had fatal accidents. I assume the other two Peru traffic lights have also had their share. The Miami County US 31/Division Rd. intersection (with no traffic light) is also a death trap.

I agree that there are several very dangerous intersections, as mentioned here.  With INDOT budgets dwindling, it's hard to imagine all these projects being completed anytime soon without some creative financing or fuel tax increases.

There are way too many driveways off of US 31 between SR 38 and US 24.
Yes there are.  And while new interchanges are quite expensive, eliminating all those driveways add an additional cost burden to eventual freeway status.
monty

mukade

Quote from: monty on August 28, 2015, 08:15:43 PM
Sherrill's and Day's Marathon are now closed.  These were mainstays in Tipton for many years.  I believe the "Eat here and get Gas" sign may be saved as a museum piece.

Unless there is a crew of people emptying the restaurant, Sherrill's is still open because lots of cars were there. I drove by there going to Indy at around 10:00 am and around 1:00 pm today. I am sure it will not be open for long, of course. It does seem that 5 star hotel across US 31 is now closed, though.

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: mukade on August 28, 2015, 08:38:19 PM
I would say SR 38 to just north of US 24 need an upgrade that removes all traffic lights. The intersections at SR 18 and SR 218 have had fatal accidents. I assume the other two Peru traffic lights have also had their share. The Miami County US 31/Division Rd. intersection (with no traffic light) is also a death trap.

There are way too many driveways off of US 31 between SR 38 and US 24.

As somebody who drives both 65 Louisville-Indy and 31 Indy-SB both several times a year, I can say that I would much prefer the 6-laning of 65 happen before converting any more segments of 31.  I get backed up on 65 due to accidents regularly.  I have never once been backed up on 31 due to an accident.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

silverback1065

Quote from: cabiness42 on August 31, 2015, 08:54:39 AM
Quote from: mukade on August 28, 2015, 08:38:19 PM
I would say SR 38 to just north of US 24 need an upgrade that removes all traffic lights. The intersections at SR 18 and SR 218 have had fatal accidents. I assume the other two Peru traffic lights have also had their share. The Miami County US 31/Division Rd. intersection (with no traffic light) is also a death trap.

There are way too many driveways off of US 31 between SR 38 and US 24.

As somebody who drives both 65 Louisville-Indy and 31 Indy-SB both several times a year, I can say that I would much prefer the 6-laning of 65 happen before converting any more segments of 31.  I get backed up on 65 due to accidents regularly.  I have never once been backed up on 31 due to an accident.

hopefully there will be money to do both. No one seems to be talking about 6 laning 70



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