The End of Unleaded Plus?

[US71]

I've noticed several stations here in Ft Smith as well as some in Missouri no longer sell Unleaded Plus gasoline. The Octane signs have been changed to 87 (instead of 88) and the Unleaded Plus signs replaced by regular Unleaded signs.

One station here still charges PLUS pricing on the former Plus pump, but it simply says Unleaded now.

Has Plus been discontinued?

[realjd]

Around here standard is 87, 89, and 91/93. I've seen no change.

[Pink Jazz]

Isn't mid grade gas not actually a refined product, but a blend of regular and premium gas?  That is what I have heard.

[Brandon]

Isn't mid grade gas not actually a refined product, but a blend of regular and premium gas?  That is what I have heard.

Depends on the station.  Some have three USTs, one for each grade, some have two USTs and use a blending dispenser.

[US71]

Isn't mid grade gas not actually a refined product, but a blend of regular and premium gas?  That is what I have heard.

Usually, yes.

[ET21]

No changes noticed here yet

[SP Cook]

If a station is using two tanks and the mid-grade is a blend, then there is no reason to drop it.  Since there is no car made that needs "mid-grade" (there are a very few high-performance cars that are specifically labeled for "premium" ) then every sale is pure extra profit.  However, if a station is using 3 tanks, then another product, such as the highly government subsidized E-85, might be a better seller. 

I have not noticed any changes.

[formulanone]

Went to an Alon station in El Paso yesterday which had two grades on all eight pumps: 86 Regular, and Diesel.

Twelve years ago, I had a car which recommended 89 octane, and there was a noticeable performance difference (slight acceleration lag) when using 87 instead.

[corco]

If a station is using two tanks and the mid-grade is a blend, then there is no reason to drop it.  Since there is no car made that needs "mid-grade" (there are a very few high-performance cars that are specifically labeled for "premium" ) then every sale is pure extra profit.  However, if a station is using 3 tanks, then another product, such as the highly government subsidized E-85, might be a better seller. 

I have not noticed any changes.

That's not necessarily true- I know at least the Ford 5.4 V8 from the late 90s/early 00s (my parents had one) specifically recommends 89 octane in the owner's manual.

In the Mountain West, we have 85/87/91 (CO/UT/WY/eastern ID), 85.5/88/91 (MT), and 86/88/91 (NM). While a lot of people's cars can handle that low octane because of the elevation, it does still cause knocking in many vehicles, requiring the use of midgrade.

[SteveG1988]

In ND regular is 89, at least around grand forks, unless you buy E0, then it is 87. I filled my focus up with E10 since it was cheaper by 10 cents a gallon, and the car seemed to run better on it, probably due to the fact that it had a high compression I4 with a knock sensor (10.1:1 compression ratio) so it could advance and retard the spark to the coil on plug.

[1995hoo]

Haven't noticed any changes here. Most carry 87, 89, and 93; Sunocos also usually carry 91 in addition to those grades, and the Wawa in Woodbridge carries 92 instead of 93. 92 was the norm for super around here until the mid-1990s. Sunoco used to carry 93 and 94 instead of 91 and 93, but they phased out the 94 a few years back due to MTBE regulations (according to newspaper reports I saw at the time).

I haven't seen many gas stations around here using the term "unleaded" in years, presumably because it's to be assumed. I found it a bit interesting this past June on our way down I-75 in Georgia that many of the billboards did use the word "unleaded." I found myself wondering what they were distinguishing it from. Not diesel, I assume, since some of them also listed the price for diesel.

Of course, then you have the brands of gas noted by these guys:

[Roadrunner75]

Of course, then you have the brands of gas noted by these guys:

My answer is "high test".

[Duke87]

If a station is using two tanks and the mid-grade is a blend, then there is no reason to drop it.  Since there is no car made that needs "mid-grade" (there are a very few high-performance cars that are specifically labeled for "premium" ) then every sale is pure extra profit.

That's not necessarily true- I know at least the Ford 5.4 V8 from the late 90s/early 00s (my parents had one) specifically recommends 89 octane in the owner's manual.

This might also be dependent on the age of the car. My parents' 1987 Subaru GL was built for 89 octane and that is what they always put in it. But it has been quite a while since I have seen a vehicle specifically recommend such. It would probably have to be an old car at this point.


As for the pure profit, not necessarily. Maybe you will get silly people putting plus in their car that only needs regular, but you then will also get cheap people putting plus in a vehicle that's supposed to take premium. I have an uncle who used to own a late 90's Caddilac that he bought used in the late 2000's and he only ever put plus in it. In his mind the car was old anyway and if he sent it into a slightly earlier grave by not giving it premium, oh well, whatever, not worth the extra 20 cents a gallon to preserve it.

[Brandon]

If a station is using two tanks and the mid-grade is a blend, then there is no reason to drop it.  Since there is no car made that needs "mid-grade" (there are a very few high-performance cars that are specifically labeled for "premium" ) then every sale is pure extra profit.  However, if a station is using 3 tanks, then another product, such as the highly government subsidized E-85, might be a better seller. 

I have not noticed any changes.

The 1999-2004 Chrysler 300M very strongly recommends the use of 89 octane in the owners manual (for the 3.5L engine).  You might want to rescind your statement, SP.

[SP Cook]

The 1999-2004 Chrysler 300M very strongly recommends the use of 89 octane in the owners manual (for the 3.5L engine).  You might want to rescind your statement, SP.

I am not familiar with that car.  I was going off something I read in C&D.  I bow to your superior knowledge base.  Thank you.

[1995hoo]

....

As for the pure profit, not necessarily. Maybe you will get silly people putting plus in their car that only needs regular, but you then will also get cheap people putting plus in a vehicle that's supposed to take premium. I have an uncle who used to own a late 90's Caddilac that he bought used in the late 2000's and he only ever put plus in it. In his mind the car was old anyway and if he sent it into a slightly earlier grave by not giving it premium, oh well, whatever, not worth the extra 20 cents a gallon to preserve it.

There are a lot of people who do this. I'm a member of the Acurazine forum (I have a 2004 TL and my wife has a 2003 RSX Type-S, both of which specify premium), and there are a lot of TL forum members who complain about the price of premium gas and ask if they can use a lower grade without damaging their cars (answer: you can, but you'll lose performance as the engine control unit retards the horsepower to compensate). I've always felt that in a pinch, you use what you must–example, I needed gas in Louisbourg, Nova Scotia, and the only station in town sold only 87 octane. So I bought $10 worth to get me to Sydney. What can you do. But if you decide to buy a $30,000 car that specifies higher-octane gas, you should be prepared to pay for said gas. If it bothers you, buy a different car!

[signalman]

....

As for the pure profit, not necessarily. Maybe you will get silly people putting plus in their car that only needs regular, but you then will also get cheap people putting plus in a vehicle that's supposed to take premium. I have an uncle who used to own a late 90's Caddilac that he bought used in the late 2000's and he only ever put plus in it. In his mind the car was old anyway and if he sent it into a slightly earlier grave by not giving it premium, oh well, whatever, not worth the extra 20 cents a gallon to preserve it.

There are a lot of people who do this. I'm a member of the Acurazine forum (I have a 2004 TL and my wife has a 2003 RSX Type-S, both of which specify premium), and there are a lot of TL forum members who complain about the price of premium gas and ask if they can use a lower grade without damaging their cars (answer: you can, but you'll lose performance as the engine control unit retards the horsepower to compensate). I've always felt that in a pinch, you use what you must–example, I needed gas in Louisbourg, Nova Scotia, and the only station in town sold only 87 octane. So I bought $10 worth to get me to Sydney. What can you do. But if you decide to buy a $30,000 car that specifies higher-octane gas, you should be prepared to pay for said gas. If it bothers you, buy a different car!

I couldn't agree with you more, 1995hoo.  I run a gas station in NJ and it kills me when a customer wants to put regular in a high end vehicle.  A $70,000 Mercedes and you can't afford 93 octane?  Puhleeese!  What's even worse, is someone who puts 87 in a Corvette or some other performance car.  Most of those type vehicles are not daily drivers, thus the driver isn't refueling it that much.  Yet, they still can't spring for premium fuel. 

On the other end of the spectrum are the few who put premium in a car designed for regular, since they feel as though it's better gas.  A car meant to run on regular may knock and ping a bit after a ton of miles.  In that case, using 89 octane will take care of those issues.  One of my older cars had that issue.  I had a Toyota Camry and after about 150,000 miles of regular it would knock and ping.  I began using 89 in it and the problem vanished.

My last two cars and my current car all take premium.  I use it.  I feel like 1995hoo...if you don't like buying high octane fuel, don't buy the car.  I don't have a lot of money, but even I can afford an extra $2 on a full tank by buying premium.  I worry most about buying premium in more rural areas where I wonder how old the fuel in the underground tank is or even if it is high octane, since most don't have vehicles that require it.  In more built up or affluent areas, I don't worry as much.

[cpzilliacus]

My last two cars and my current car all take premium.  I use it.  I feel like 1995hoo...if you don't like buying high octane fuel, don't buy the car.  I don't have a lot of money, but even I can afford an extra $2 on a full tank by buying premium.  I worry most about buying premium in more rural areas where I wonder how old the fuel in the underground tank is or even if it is high octane, since most don't have vehicles that require it.  In more built up or affluent areas, I don't worry as much.

Similar problem with Diesel fuel.   I try to buy from sources I trust - if not, from stations that appear to sell a lot of the stuff.

[bulldog1979]

Around here, the Holiday stations sell ethanol-free premium. The regular and mid-grade have some ethanol in them. (I believe up to E10 can be sold without labeling it as such.) The alcohol will foul up the engines in lawn mowers and weed eaters, so people in the know buy premium from Holiday for those uses. My parents' motorcycles also do very poorly with any ethanol-blended fuels, and Dad carries an enzyme additive to use if they can't find ethanol-free gasoline.

[PHLBOS]

While this is a tangent to the above-topic; it does have some relevance.

The one automotive number that many have been ignoring is engine compression ratios.  When 87 octane unleaded first came out in the late 70s/early 80s (the first unleaded gas outside of Amoco had an 89 octane rating); the majority of new car engines back then had very low compression ratios (8 to 1 or even 7 to 1 in some instances) and the performance of these engines reflected such (one was lucky if their car could do 0 to 60 under 10 seconds).

During the course of the last 35 years (heck, some of this was noticed as far back as the late 80s/early 90s), the advent of fuel injection along with the increase of compression ratios (many cars now have 10 to 1 or higher compression ratios); engine performance has drastically improved (8-second 0 to 60 times is now considered slow).

Long story short & rule of thumb, if one's engine compression ratio is 9 to 1 or higher; using only 87 octane gas is not recommended despite one's owner's manual stating otherwise; knock sensors or no knock sensors. 

As an example, the 4.0L V6 engine on my 2007 Mustang has a 9.7 to 1 compression ratio which translates to a real-world recommendation of 90 octane even though the owner's manual recommends 87.  Since 90 octane isn't available directly on pumps; one would have to blend the grades to achieve the mix.  Note: the above was quoted from my brother who's more familiar with this stuff than I am.

IMHO, it's the 87 octane grade should be phased out not the 89.  Most newer cars realistically don't run the most efficient (i.e. better power and fuel economy) on the lower grade gas.

It's like the gasoline suppliers are still stuck in the 80s in terms of grade choices.

It also doesn't help when many stations price the 89 grade closer to the premium grade (usually 92 or 93) despite the wider octane spread.

[Pete from Boston]

I always assumed the high mid-grade pricing was to lure customers into foolishly buying the premium instead because "look at how much higher octane I can get for just 10 more cents."

[US71]

I always assumed the high mid-grade pricing was to lure customers into foolishly buying the premium instead because "look at how much higher octane I can get for just 10 more cents."

Casey's is rather hit n miss, but sometimes charges the same for Regular and Super Unleaded.

[1995hoo]

It seems like the pricing spread has increased over the years. Back in the early 1990s I had a 1982 Honda Accord that never ran well on 87 or 89 for whatever reason, so I used 92. Back then it seemed like it was typically a 10¢-a-gallon difference in grades: If they charged 99¢ a gallon for 92, 87 would be 79¢. (I don't remember any stations having leaded gas by 1989, when I first got a driver's license, so I don't remember how leaded gas slotted into the price structure.) Nowadays it seems like the price difference from regular to super can be anywhere from 30¢ to 50¢ depending on the station. I guess 30¢ isn't that different from the 20¢ split, but 50¢ seems like a lot.

[hbelkins]

I always assumed the high mid-grade pricing was to lure customers into foolishly buying the premium instead because "look at how much higher octane I can get for just 10 more cents."

Casey's is rather hit n miss, but sometimes charges the same for Regular and Super Unleaded.

Isn't that because one grade contains ethanol, but the other doesn't?

[US71]

I always assumed the high mid-grade pricing was to lure customers into foolishly buying the premium instead because "look at how much higher octane I can get for just 10 more cents."

Casey's is rather hit n miss, but sometimes charges the same for Regular and Super Unleaded.

Isn't that because one grade contains ethanol, but the other doesn't?

I know the Super has ethanol, but I'm not sure about the Regular. The Casey's here doesn't do that.