Florida State Road History

[NE2]

Why 1491? I don't know - it's really in Florida's 200-300 Belt, but I guess the 2000s seem to be mostly applied to the First Coast area.

Four-digit routes don't skip 30 like the three-digit routes do (hence north of 10 is 0xxx). See http://www.dot.state.fl.us/planning/statistics/hwysys/jurisdictionhandbook.pdf (p. 21). I don't know if there are any 3xxx routes, but http://digitool.fcla.edu/webclient/DeliveryManager?pid=54354&custom_att_2=direct shows that a few were assigned in the Panhandle (perhaps as numbers that the counties rejected?).

[formulanone]

Four-digit routes don't skip 30 like the three-digit routes do (hence north of 10 is 0xxx). See http://www.dot.state.fl.us/planning/statistics/hwysys/jurisdictionhandbook.pdf (p. 21). I don't know if there are any 3xxx routes, but http://digitool.fcla.edu/webclient/DeliveryManager?pid=54354&custom_att_2=direct shows that a few were assigned in the Panhandle (perhaps as numbers that the counties rejected?).

Thanks for that second link! Might have to make some PDFs out of it when I have the time.

CR 844 intrigues me...that looks to be Copans Road in Broward; it was (and still is) a fairly busy road, but never signed as such. It's naturally not far from SR 844 / NW 14th Street, so that makes sense, as Florida isn't averse to slightly discontinuous routes (as per your first link).

[Fred Defender]

Somewhere I also have a map of a pre World War II proposal to connect the two sections of what is today Citrus County Road 39, with a road along the Withlacoochee River that was never built.

I haven't been to Port Charlotte in years. And you guys (especially NE2), I'm sure, know this...but when they first built I-75 in Charlotte County in the early-1980's, Toledo Blade Boulevard was originally going to be designated as SR39 (I do not believe that it was ever signed as such), apparently with the intent to eventually extend it to connect with SR/CR39 in Manatee County.

You are correct in that Toledo Blade was never signed as SR 39 but the original Right-of-Way plans do indicate that it was intended to be a state road. While working for Sarasota County I had access to all their ROW plans and came across everything they had on I-75's construction. I also remember as a kid seeing the stamping on the median jersey barrier between the mainline overpasses (at the edge of the abutments) as being "STATE ROAD 39". Of course it's now stamped "TOLEDO BLADE BLVD".

There were a few rumbles earlier this year about extending Toledo Blade northward from its current end to SR 72, but most people are afraid if it gets built then it will open up the land to be developed. I say it needs to be built purely to have an alternative to get north from the Port Charlotte/North Port area (for the occasional time that I-75 traffic is backed up).

On a side note, some of the other ROW plans I was able to read while at the County were plans for University Parkway along the Sarasota/Manatee County line. Signed along I-75 as County Road 610 (formally signed as CR 750), original plans called the route State Road 610. So it was originally a part of the state system but when the state did its overhaul in the late 70's University Parkway was handed to the county, thus the reason for the CR 610 designation.

Now if I could only figure out why other exits (195, 193, 191, and 182) along I-75 show county designations when the roads themselves are not signed (sans River Road which is still considered CR 777 toward Englewood). My thought is they are internal numbers from Sarasota County but I found nothing to support that theory in any of their databases or other materials).

Cool stuff. I grew up in Venice. They began construction on I-75 right around the time I graduated from high school in 1978. A friend of mine and I actually walked (crawled) through the trapezoidal steel beams on the SR681 overpass from one side  to the other before there was any kind of surface (or forms or anything). I've got some old B&W photos of construction stashed away somewhere. This is going into the way-back machine, but I believe that it was the Border Road southbound overpass that was hit by a piece of equipment which brought down several of the concrete beams that were in place. This would have been in early-1980, I believe.

Prior to I-75's construction, Venice Ave (Venice Farm Rd, as it was known then), River Rd, and Center Rd were bumpy, patched 2-lane roads - especially River between Venice and Center. There was nothing out there then. And River Rd, of course, ended at Venice Farm. You had to really want to go out there. A trip to Snook Haven with my dad was always an adventure.

[Fred Defender]

So...CR1491 has you stumped, huh? Do I win a prize?

No, it was just never a state road.

Seems like it was loosely put together from a few local roads. Why 1491? I don't know - it's really in Florida's 200-300 Belt, and 1xxx routes are usually in Leon County. But I guess the 2000s seem to be mostly applied to the First Coast area.

Still a fun road, though.

For that matter, why use 4dcr (4-digit county road numbers...someone had to coin it) when there's still many left in the three-digit pile?

Except for some of the roads in the Montverde area, Alachua CR1491 is one of my favorite motorcycling roads in Florida. I'm lucky - I live about four miles from either end of it.

The stretch of CR241 in Union County north of Providence is a lot of fun for the first couple of miles off of SR238.

[FLRoads]

I'd like to see those photos sometime if you were to find them!

I grew up near Ft. Myers and was fairly young when I-75 was opened up through the area, but I still have vivid memories of the freeway. Don't know if you remember these but I recall big yellow signs along U.S. 41 north near River Road alerting motorists where to turn to get to I-75 north. These were up when I-75 was opened from there northward toward Sarasota and Bradenton. I also seem to remember another set at Tuckers Grade along U.S. 41 in Charlotte County.

[Fred Defender]

I'd like to see those photos sometime if you were to find them!

I grew up near Ft. Myers and was fairly young when I-75 was opened up through the area, but I still have vivid memories of the freeway. Don't know if you remember these but I recall big yellow signs along U.S. 41 north near River Road alerting motorists where to turn to get to I-75 north. These were up when I-75 was opened from there northward toward Sarasota and Bradenton. I also seem to remember another set at Tuckers Grade along U.S. 41 in Charlotte County.

I'll try to dig them up over the holidays. If you're 40, you were pretty young then. I remember when they opened I-75 from River Rd to 301 in Ellenton. I don't remember the exact date, but it was in May of 1981. I don't recall exactly when the stretch from SR78 (CR78) in NFM to Tucker's Grade opened, but I think that it was just a little bit earlier. I remember driving with a friend across the Caloosahatchee River bridge in January of 1979 not long before that stretch opened. The first time I drove on I-75 south of Tampa legally was in late-'79. That would have been the stretch from SR80 to Daniels (I think).

We moved to Venice in 1968. I distinctly recall when 41 was being 4-laned from Shamrock Blvd to SR775 (now 776) in 1970. My dad and I used to drive through South Venice just to see how they were progressing. The 4-laning from just south of 775 to Warm Mineral Springs didn't get underway until I was in high school.

Someday, I'll tell you the stories of the hell-raising Saturday night parties in North Port. I forget what the name of the road was but you used to turn onto Creighton Blvd at the Holiday Inn billboard. Malls out there now, I'm sure. But people used to bring cars on trailers to drag race. It was wild.

[Fred Defender]

Took this picture today. I'm certain that these are not genuine. The color schemes are reversed - the same as business routes. And they do not appear to be old enough to be genuine SRD signs. But pretty cool nonetheless.

[FLRoads]

Took this picture today. I'm certain that these are not genuine. The color schemes are reversed - the same as business routes. And they do not appear to be old enough to be genuine SRD signs. But pretty cool nonetheless.

You are right, they are not genuine, but are county installs. They are the replacement for this assembly:



We photographed this November 2008. I have an older photo of the assembly (and the one further up) that I took when I lived in Gainesville but I'm not sure where they are at the moment.

And the 27 shield is in fact covering a faded SR 325 Keys shield.

[FLRoads]

Someday, I'll tell you the stories of the hell-raising Saturday night parties in North Port. I forget what the name of the road was but you used to turn onto Creighton Blvd at the Holiday Inn billboard. Malls out there now, I'm sure. But people used to bring cars on trailers to drag race. It was wild.

I know that my cousins (when they were teenagers) would go somewhere in North Port to watch and/or partake in drag racing, so it was probably the same place! I was too young to tag along but I remember them talking about it quite often. And, no, there is no mall out in that area, but it is built up more with houses.

I remember when they opened I-75 from River Rd to 301 in Ellenton. I don't remember the exact date, but it was in May of 1981. I don't recall exactly when the stretch from SR78 (CR78) in NFM to Tucker's Grade opened, but I think that it was just a little bit earlier. I remember driving with a friend across the Caloosahatchee River bridge in January of 1979 not long before that stretch opened. The first time I drove on I-75 south of Tampa legally was in late-'79. That would have been the stretch from SR80 to Daniels (I think).

I found an article that mentions the stretch linking Lee and Charlotte counties opening up late December 1980, so that fits your memory of it opening a bit sooner than the River Road-U.S. 301 portion.

I also have recollections of when the SR78/I-75 interchange was under construction, especially when traffic had to shift onto a temporary alignment while the crews installed bridge beams for mainline I-75. I know I would have been six at the time, so that would place my memories sometime during 1980.     

[Fred Defender]

Took this picture today. I'm certain that these are not genuine. The color schemes are reversed - the same as business routes. And they do not appear to be old enough to be genuine SRD signs. But pretty cool nonetheless.

You are right, they are not genuine, but are county installs. They are the replacement for this assembly:



We photographed this November 2008. I have an older photo of the assembly (and the one further up) that I took when I lived in Gainesville but I'm not sure where they are at the moment.

And the 27 shield is in fact covering a faded SR 325 Keys shield.

We moved to Alachua County in 2003. I thought that I remembered original colored 41/27 signs being there. I was in High Springs today to hit the BOA ATM so thought I would drive south a piece to see if they were still there.

Until about two years ago, there was an old Keys shield S-241 (somehow escaped having a "C" stuck over it) sign at CR240 in Union County. I really wanted that sign. And I might have tried to get it, too. But there is a house nearby and I didn't feel like going to jail. I occasionally ride my motorcycle in that area and the old sign was replaced by a crappy new black-on-white "C-241" sign - not even a yellow-on-blue shield. I figured that a county employee probably got himself the S-241 sign.

[FLRoads]

I looked at those CR 241 signs on StreetView. Man, those look horrible! A few counties in NW Florida use a similar generic style for their county roads as well.

FYI, I found an article specifying that the segment of I-75 between Tucker's Grade and River Road opened on December 1, 1981.

[Fred Defender]

I looked at those CR 241 signs on StreetView. Man, those look horrible! A few counties in NW Florida use a similar generic style for their county roads as well.

FYI, I found an article specifying that the segment of I-75 between Tucker's Grade and River Road opened on December 1, 1981.

Thanks for that I-75 tidbit. I knew that the temporary end at River Rd didn't last long. Here's something funny...I remember riding my motorcycle in December 1980 from Biscayne Blvd (while they were building I-75 before they cut off Biscayne, you could get right on it) to River Rd. The bridge over Deer Prairie Creek was completed and was dated 1981 (NBI agrees). But I know for a fact that that bridge was completed in 1980.

And I KNOW that I've got a photo of the old S241 sign but I'll be darned if I can find it.

[Fred Defender]

Someone please explain this to me:

Go to historicalaerials.com and type in "Waldo, FL". Go to the 1964 aerial photo and you will see no trace of the US301 overpass over SR24 and the CSX Railroad. Not even a hint of construction. Yet, according to NBI, that bridge was built in 1964. I'm pretty sure that the bridge is dated 1964, also, although it has been a few years since I've driven across it.

Doesn't it seem a little strange. I mean, that overpass is a fairly substantial structure. Even if the aerial photo was taken on New Year's Day 1964, I would think that there would have been some construction taking place there. Did they build that bridge THAT quickly?

Any oldtimers out there from that part of the world that remember when they built it?

[clef]

And the 27 shield is in fact covering a faded SR 325 Keys shield.

And a six keys shield at that... only one of those left now

[Alps]

Someone please explain this to me:

Go to historicalaerials.com and type in "Waldo, FL". Go to the 1964 aerial photo and you will see no trace of the US301 overpass over SR24 and the CSX Railroad. Not even a hint of construction. Yet, according to NBI, that bridge was built in 1964. I'm pretty sure that the bridge is dated 1964, also, although it has been a few years since I've driven across it.

Doesn't it seem a little strange. I mean, that overpass is a fairly substantial structure. Even if the aerial photo was taken on New Year's Day 1964, I would think that there would have been some construction taking place there. Did they build that bridge THAT quickly?

Any oldtimers out there from that part of the world that remember when they built it?

The topo maps on that site are notoriously poorly reconciled to the year. The collection of aerial photos may be dated 1964, but a good number of them could have been collected a few years prior and bundled in there. There's no way to go back and check!

[Fred Defender]

The topo maps on that site are notoriously poorly reconciled to the year. The collection of aerial photos may be dated 1964, but a good number of them could have been collected a few years prior and bundled in there. There's no way to go back and check!

Thanks. Good point. I'm sure that that's the case. However, if  you go a little to the west to LaCrosse, you can see that the reconstruction of the SR121/SR235 intersection on the south side of town seems to be complete and that was done in 1963, I believe.

BTW: Merry Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa or whatever you celebrate.

[florida]

So...CR1491 has you stumped, huh? Do I win a prize?

No, it was just never a state road.

Seems like it was loosely put together from a few local roads. Why 1491? I don't know - it's really in Florida's 200-300 Belt, and 1xxx routes are usually in Leon County. But I guess the 2000s seem to be mostly applied to the First Coast area.

Still a fun road, though.

For that matter, why use 4dcr (4-digit county road numbers...someone had to coin it) when there's still many left in the three-digit pile?

I visited with Leslie Mami in Tallahassee [in 2004] and one question I asked her was about the 4-digit routes. She showed me planning maps of them, and said it was one person's job (maybe more?) to renumber all the repetitive routes. A 1976 Legislation was the reason why the 4-digits came up; there were too many numbers (5-6 sections of CR 280, CR 225 for examples), so this was to alleviate confusion.

(from first page of thread)

As for the many left in the 3-di pile, there are maps that fill in some of the gaps. For example, SR 481 and 461 in Walton County...SR routes of 499, 554, 458 in the Orlando area. They were never shown as shields on the maps, but are typed in along with the planned route of where they were to be maintained.

CR 1491 is still north of SR 20. That's why it gets the 1xxx number. Ocala has a mix of 2xxx and 4xxx because of SR 40.

[Fred Defender]

Here's the only one that I was able to find. This was taken, I believe, in April of 1980. This is the SR681 overpass under construction:



As I said in an earlier post, a buddy of mine and I climbed, walked, and crawled the entire length of the overpass inside of the trapezoidal beams before there was any kind of top on them.

[FLRoads]

Pretty cool photo (though I know it doesn't show much)! Knowing the length of this overpass, that's a fairly decent distance to have walked across. I always thought it was neat that they used this style versus the other style of beams used on all the other portions (meaning Lee, Collier, and Charlotte counties) being constructed at the time.