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Wichita Area Improvements

Started by roadman65, November 03, 2015, 10:22:18 PM

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roadman65

I was noticing that in Wichita, Kansas that many ramps along the US 54 & 400 freeway (still referred to as Kellog Avenue despite it being freeway grade) are so close together that weaving issues are created especially at the I-235 cloverleaf.

Does KDOT have plans to redo the whole Kellog freeway so that the ramps are better aligned?  Also the N Bound I-135 to W Bound K-96 and S Bound I-235 is also a bottleneck as the tight cloverleaf ramp is too inadequate to handle the traffic counts that it can handle plus the merge with K-254 W Bound also slows traffic as well because it has to alternate with K-254 as well.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe


will_e_777

Rocky Mountain man.

The Ghostbuster

Will any more sections of US 54/400 be upgraded to freeway standards in the near future?

Scott5114

I seem to remember, but may be wrong, that either the city of Wichita or Sedgwick County administers the Kellogg freeway, despite it carrying US-54/400.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

snowedin

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on November 04, 2015, 03:08:14 PM
Will any more sections of US 54/400 be upgraded to freeway standards in the near future?

They're still working east toward Greenwich Rd.

http://www.scrippsmedia.com/kfdi/news/More-improvements-announced-for-East-Kellogg-279540712.html

J N Winkler

#5
Quote from: roadman65 on November 03, 2015, 10:22:18 PMI was noticing that in Wichita, Kansas that many ramps along the US 54 & 400 freeway (still referred to as Kellogg Avenue despite it being freeway grade) are so close together that weaving issues are created especially at the I-235 cloverleaf.

Yup, ramp spacing is tight, to the point that normal practice is to use the middle lane as the driving lane to avoid frequent lane changes to accommodate merging traffic.  It hardly helps that Wichita has no ramp metering and local drivers tend to enter freeways on very tight headways.

The bulk of the current Kellogg freeway was built after 1980 with partial funding from a half-cent local sales tax increment.

Quote from: roadman65 on November 03, 2015, 10:22:18 PMDoes KDOT have plans to redo the whole Kellogg freeway so that the ramps are better aligned?

No.  With the exception of the I-235/Kellogg cloverleaf-to-stack/turban-hybrid conversion, which will get seriously underway after this winter, KDOT is not going back and fixing any segments that are already freeway.  Besides this interchange upgrade, the only major construction activity on Kellogg will be the Cypress-Wiedemann project (basically, renovating the Turnpike/Webb/Kellogg interchange and extending the freeway west to K-96), and that will be it for extending the freeway east of Wichita--there are no plans to extend it through Andover to Augusta, and in fact the existing alignment through Andover is heavily built up.  On the west side, KDOT has been building frontage roads for future interchanges at section line road crossings between Wichita and Goddard, and the ultimate plan is to extend the freeway through or past Goddard to a planned stack/turban hybrid interchange that will be the western terminus of the proposed Wichita Northwest Bypass (a westward extension of K-254).

Depending on when you were in town, you would have seen various phases of power line relocation in progress along I-235 between Central and Kellogg.  About a month ago, crews were erecting closed-section metal power poles near the existing pylons.  Now power lines have been transferred to the new poles and the old pylons have been toppled to the ground for dismantling.  There are also power pole replacements in progress elsewhere in west Wichita, along Tyler Road between Central and 13th, and I suspect they are related.

Quote from: roadman65 on November 03, 2015, 10:22:18 PMAlso the N Bound I-135 to W Bound K-96 and S Bound I-235 is also a bottleneck as the tight cloverleaf ramp is too inadequate to handle the traffic counts that it can handle plus the merge with K-254 W Bound also slows traffic as well because it has to alternate with K-254 as well.

This is the North Junction and the current plan is a comprehensive rebuild with flyover ramps and collector-distributor lanes to keep traffic staying on K-96 completely separate from I-135/I-235.  I don't expect any actual construction work to occur as part of the current comprehensive transportation program (T-WORKS), which expires around 2018.  I think it is highly questionable that there will be a follow-up program given the dire condition of the state budget.

Quote from: Scott5114 on November 04, 2015, 06:48:30 PMI seem to remember, but may be wrong, that either the city of Wichita or Sedgwick County administers the Kellogg freeway, despite it carrying US-54/400.

AIUI, local involvement is limited to first construction for some segments that have been funded by the local sales tax increment (which covers all of Sedgwick County).  This includes the Northeast Freeway as well as Kellogg.  Here is the breakdown, as I understand it:

Kellogg--currently a freeway from 111th St. W. (just west of Maize Road) east to Cypress (just shy of the Turnpike ramps):

*  Maize, Tyler--built by City of Wichita (ca. 2005 2004), plans set has a KDOT title sheet

*  Airport connector interchange--built by KDOT (1970's)

*  Dugan Road interchange--I don't know who built it, but suspect KDOT (mid-1990's 1996)

*  I-235 cloverleaf--built by KDOT (1961); upgrade currently in progress is also administered by KDOT

*  West Street SPUI--built by KDOT (ca. 1987)

*  Edwards, Meridian, Seneca-Sycamore, Arkansas River bridge, downtown flyover--built by City of Wichita (mid-1990's 1993), plans sets do not have KDOT title sheets or KDOT project numbers

*  Railroad overpass, Washington, I-135 turban, Grove, Hillside--built by KDOT (late 1970's/early 1980's 1979-1981)

*  Oliver--I don't know who built it, but suspect KDOT (late 1990's)

*  Edgemoor, Woodlawn--I don't know who built it, but suspect KDOT (early 2000's)

*  Armour, Rock--built by City of Wichita (opened 2009, IIRC), plans set has a KDOT title sheet

The westside frontage road jobs are KDOT projects while the Turnpike/Webb portion of the Cypress-Wiedemann macro project is being divided between the Turnpike Authority and the City of Wichita, with the latter agency letting the contract and the plans set having a KDOT title sheet (as is also usually true of major Turnpike projects).

K-96 Northeast Freeway, from I-135 east to US 54:

*  Northern flank (I-135 to Webb Road)--built by City of Wichita (late 1980's 1993)

*  Eastern flank (Webb Road to US 54)--built by Sedgwick County (early 1990's 1994)

*  Greenwich Road interchange ramp addition (part of TIF improvements in connection with a new Cabela's nearby)--built by City of Wichita (just finished), plans set does not have a KDOT title sheet but does have a KDOT project number

I don't recall where the dividing line was between the northern and eastern flanks, but suspect it was at Webb Road.  I have never seen the construction plans for any of K-96 with the exception of the Greenwich Road ramp addition.

This is the best I can do with very limited access to KDOT as-builts.  They are technically public records, but KDOT seems to loathe the idea of their being readily available outside the Eisenhower State Office Building and hasn't implemented any form of self-service access that is open to public users.  Access through open records requests is prohibitively (and unnecessarily) expensive since KDOT charges ~$25/hour for compilation and for supervision for in-person inspection of records.

Just to add:  the sales tax increment has financed projects elsewhere on the Wichita freeway network, including the 13th Street flyover that was the first stop on the driving tour of the July 2013 road meet (built by City of Wichita, plans set has a KDOT title sheet, KDOT handled contract letting).  There is also ongoing construction of a restricted-access half diamond at K-96/Hoover Road (just northwest of the K-96/I-235 western interchange and also near the old Brooks landfill) that I think bypassed the KDOT letting and is locally supervised.

Edit:  Above has been corrected in accord with the KDOT pavement summary map.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

roadman65

I saw those power lines being built and the old pylons were being dismantled.  I thought that maybe the power company was upgrading or something.  That should be somewhat improvement over the current outdated cloverleaf there when completed.

I also saw that just west of the Turnpike Entrance on Kellog there is a span wire signal assembly there. I assume that the freeway will continue soon, however no warning that the freeway ends and the arterial starts at that intersection.  In fact I was in for a surprise to see that signal there being at 3 miles away on an overhead assembly they have a guide sign for both I-35 and the KTA as if it is still freeway where the two routes interchange.  There is no signal ahead signs either like on the western end where flashing yellow beacons attached to the signal ahead warning signs are erected.  You would figure that some accidents had to happen by now because of that as the signal is well hidden from the freeway itself.

Also why is all the descriptors being removed from Wichita Streets?  I see Rock Road is now just "Rock" and Oliver Road is "Oliver" and Pawnee I have no idea if its an avenue or a street as I-135 signs the city roads without descriptors as well.

One more thing is the truncation of K-42 to I-235 instead of continuing along Southwest Blvd. to US 54 & 400.  I am guessing that KDOT handed down that part to the City of Wichita, so they put up an END sign EB at I-235 and removed the shields on US 54 & 400.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

J N Winkler

Quote from: roadman65 on November 05, 2015, 07:35:18 PMI saw those power lines being built and the old pylons were being dismantled.  I thought that maybe the power company was upgrading or something.  That should be somewhat improvement over the current outdated cloverleaf there when completed.

Those lines are being relocated to get them out of the way of the interchange improvement project, which also includes widening of I-235 north to Central.  I think the power company (Westar, I assume) is also taking advantage of the opportunity to replace outdated poles elsewhere in west Wichita.

Quote from: roadman65 on November 05, 2015, 07:35:18 PMI also saw that just west of the Turnpike Entrance on Kellogg there is a span wire signal assembly there. I assume that the freeway will continue soon, however no warning that the freeway ends and the arterial starts at that intersection.  In fact I was in for a surprise to see that signal there being at 3 miles away on an overhead assembly they have a guide sign for both I-35 and the KTA as if it is still freeway where the two routes interchange.  There is no signal ahead signs either like on the western end where flashing yellow beacons attached to the signal ahead warning signs are erected.  You would figure that some accidents had to happen by now because of that as the signal is well hidden from the freeway itself.

The signal supported on span wires will be gone when the Cypress-Wiedemann project is finished.  And, yes, the end of the freeway is rather abrupt, with no end-of-freeway warning signs, no diamond warning sign with flashing beacon, an apparent freeway lane drop that in actuality is a right-turn-only lane on a surface arterial, etc.  But in practice it works reasonably well since the majority of traffic is local, already familiar with the light, and is prepared to slow down.  The speed limit also drops in advance.  The local traffic forms a sort of rolling roadblock for "stranger" through traffic.

Quote from: roadman65 on November 05, 2015, 07:35:18 PMAlso why is all the descriptors being removed from Wichita Streets?  I see Rock Road is now just "Rock" and Oliver Road is "Oliver" and Pawnee I have no idea if its an avenue or a street as I-135 signs the city roads without descriptors as well.

The descriptors were never there in the first place, but will be included on new signs to be installed as part of a sign refurbishment for which KDOT let the contract about six months ago.  You are coming through town before any of the new signs have been erected.

The construction plans are still available online:

I-135:  http://ksdot1.ksdot.org/burconsmain/contracts/Proposals/Plans/515042595p.pdf

I-235:  http://ksdot1.ksdot.org/burconsmain/contracts/Proposals/Plans/515042595p2.pdf

K-96 (including expressway section between Maize and the Reno county line):  http://ksdot1.ksdot.org/burconsmain/contracts/Proposals/Plans/515042595p3.pdf

If you are into taking sign photos, the existing signs are not a bad choice, since they represent a Wichita-specific oddity that will soon be vanishing.

Quote from: roadman65 on November 05, 2015, 07:35:18 PMOne more thing is the truncation of K-42 to I-235 instead of continuing along Southwest Blvd. to US 54 & 400.  I am guessing that KDOT handed down that part to the City of Wichita, so they put up an END sign EB at I-235 and removed the shields on US 54 & 400.

Yes.  A past thread has the details.  Originally, both K-2 and K-42 came into Wichita and terminated at US 54, where Southwest Blvd. becomes Edwards Ave.  K-2 was a "useless overlap"/"useless multiplex" between US 54 and the K-2/K-42 split near Suppesville, so this portion of it was eliminated along with many other such overlaps statewide in December 1994.  Then, in what apparently was an exchange of maintained lane mileage between KDOT and the City of Wichita in connection with construction of the Oliver interchange on Kellogg, K-42 was cut back from US 54 to I-235 in March 2001.

As a result of these changes, the Edwards Ave. signs on Kellogg have huge green blanks where the K-2 and K-42 shields used to go.  They have never been trimmed down, unlike the signs for the Garden Plain exit off US 54 (the road into town used to be K-163).  However, there is an interchange sequence sign on I-235 westbound between Seneca and Meridian that still has a K-2 as well as a K-42 shield.  It was actually carbon-copied, K-2 shield and all, in an early draft of the sign refurbishment plans.

Did you see the huge blank yellow sign on westbound US 54 just past the West Street SPUI?
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

roadman65

No I missed that, but saw the erroneous K-2 sign on I-235 going NB just north of Seneca.  Another mistake I noticed was at the east end of K-96 it still shows it continuing east of its freeway end at US 54 and 400.  If I am not mistaken, K-96 was truncated in favor of US 400 as that pretty much took its route east of Augusta as MO 96 is now orphaned and only got a reclaim to fame when US 66 was decommissioned east of Carthage.

I like though how they did US 54 through the East Kellogg Business District with the Texas U turns on each overpass.  However, I think Rock Road should be an SPUI as the two signals there have four overall phases to clear out the overpass over the freeway.  It basically works as one intersection with two separate signals for each service road.

Also I am impressed with how Wichita is painting all their new signal poles brown and using all black heads. Although the full black color may be statewide as I have seen them in a few other places.  There are still some span wires left  which are all yellow as one is on Broadway south of US 54.  I assume that Wichita will change it out for the brown poles and black heads. 

I did notice something weird though at Pawnee and Old K-15 near Spangles, all the signal heads at that intersection are 3M.  Usually they are only used for protected lefts or where two signals work as one where they do not want the second signals orientation to be known to the drivers before the first signal to prevent signal running of the first.  However, this had none of the such.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

J N Winkler

Quote from: roadman65 on November 05, 2015, 10:29:02 PMAnother mistake I noticed was at the east end of K-96 it still shows it continuing east of its freeway end at US 54 and 400.  If I am not mistaken, K-96 was truncated in favor of US 400 as that pretty much took its route east of Augusta as MO 96 is now orphaned and only got a reclaim to fame when US 66 was decommissioned east of Carthage.

Yup, K-96 was eliminated east of Wichita since it was entirely subsumed by US 400 and other routes.  But there is still that stray K-96 marker just past the US 54 trumpet . . .

Quote from: roadman65 on November 05, 2015, 10:29:02 PMI like though how they did US 54 through the East Kellogg Business District with the Texas U turns on each overpass.  However, I think Rock Road should be an SPUI as the two signals there have four overall phases to clear out the overpass over the freeway.  It basically works as one intersection with two separate signals for each service road.

I like the crossovers, but I am not really happy with the way Armour/Rock Road are laid out and actively try to avoid that area.  I do have to go there from time to time to buy OEM parts for a family car at the only Toyota dealership in town (Eddy's), which is just before the Armour light as you go east.  I find traffic on the frontage road is usually so fast and heavy that I can't exit at Armour and move to the right fast enough to turn into Eddy's or the adjacent side street.  It operates so close to capacity that you effectively have to have lane assignment memorized to navigate it efficiently.

Quote from: roadman65 on November 05, 2015, 10:29:02 PMAlso I am impressed with how Wichita is painting all their new signal poles brown and using all black heads. Although the full black color may be statewide as I have seen them in a few other places.  There are still some span wires left  which are all yellow as one is on Broadway south of US 54.  I assume that Wichita will change it out for the brown poles and black heads.

I don't expect that to happen anytime soon.  The whole area is very down-at-heel and the public infrastructure looks pretty much as it did 30 years ago when I was riding the bus to school.

Because Broadway was the routing of US 81 through Wichita before I-135 was built, it still has a large number of highway motels, some of which continue in business as hot-pillow joints.  Before a crackdown some years ago, it was where one went to find a prostitute.  It still has salvage yards, small-time used-car dealerships, the only auto auction house that allows members of the public on the floor to bid, etc.

Wichita has a classic north-south problem as well as an east-west problem.  The traditional rule of thumb is that east-side Wichita has more income inequality since it has the millionaires' enclave as well as the black part of town, while the west side is just plain middle-class folks.  But in some respects the disparities are greater along the north-south axis.  While north Wichita has some poor neighborhoods, there is no neighborhood in south Wichita that could fairly be described as wealthy.  This is part of the reason you are much more likely to see older span-wire installations in south Wichita.

Wichita has the ZIP codes with highest and lowest infant mortality in Kansas.  Highest infant mortality is in 67218 (a Douglas-Hillside-Pawnee-Woodlawn box in southeast Wichita), where I went to school.  Lowest infant mortality is in 67212 (a Douglas-119th West-21st-West box in northwest Wichita), where I grew up.

Quote from: roadman65 on November 05, 2015, 10:29:02 PMI did notice something weird though at Pawnee and Old K-15 near Spangles, all the signal heads at that intersection are 3M.  Usually they are only used for protected lefts or where two signals work as one where they do not want the second signals orientation to be known to the drivers before the first signal to prevent signal running of the first.  However, this had none of the such.

I think this type of signal was favored in the past for diagonal boulevards.  I seem to recall their being used along George Washington Boulevard (e.g. the intersections with Hillside and Harry), and possibly also Southwest Boulevard, but they are definitely not used on Zoo Boulevard.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

roadman65

I was noticing that when I drove on Rock Road that it seemed middle class and higher.  Also Bel Aire seems like an upper middle class neighborhood.

Also, like you said the motels on Broadway obviously were the old highway motels of when US 81 graced the city. Now with I-135 taking over the interchange motels are the ones used by the travelers, as all those now are roach motels and pillow joints to have sex. Even the Colonial Motel just one block from Kellogg, which I thought was a highway motel until my friend who lives on Pawnee Street in those Greenview Apartments across from the River, told me that it was like the others on the strip.

I did notice that around the area of Pawnee near the Wal Mart that the area is somewhat sketchy, as even my friend who lives in Greenview which is a section 8 apartment house for seniors with reduced rent, says the area is just all right and has still a lot of rift raft around.  However, his apartment does not have the usual derelict crowds hanging around like many other sketchy areas do.  Everyone who lived there was just living to afford low rent apartment rates due to living on the little our government gives out to retirees these days, but no other issues.  I felt safe when I stayed four nights with him this past week there.

I did notice that the old Arkansas River Bridge (the southbound span) prohibits trucks and must detour around it.  I am guessing the last inspection brought up issues and I will assume that it will be years before the city repairs or fixes those that are most likely structural issues that warrant the trucks off the span.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

J N Winkler

Quote from: roadman65 on November 05, 2015, 11:54:46 PMI was noticing that when I drove on Rock Road that it seemed middle class and higher.  Also Bel Aire seems like an upper middle class neighborhood.

There is serious money on Rock Road; I have relatives who used to live in a subdivision to the east of it (between Central and 13th Street) in a house currently valued at $640,000.  Bel Aire has a countrified appearance because there are a few houses on large lots with split-rail fences, but the average house price there (about $146,000) is nearly the same as in parts of near-northwest Wichita that are considered prosperous but not wealthy.

Quote from: roadman65 on November 05, 2015, 11:54:46 PMI did notice that around the area of Pawnee near the Wal Mart that the area is somewhat sketchy, as even my friend who lives in Greenview which is a section 8 apartment house for seniors with reduced rent, says the area is just all right and has still a lot of rift raff around.  However, his apartment does not have the usual derelict crowds hanging around like many other sketchy areas do.  Everyone who lived there was just living to afford low rent apartment rates due to living on the little our government gives out to retirees these days, but no other issues.  I felt safe when I stayed four nights with him this past week there.

That apartment complex is pretty decent, and it helps that it is just across the street from one of the riverside parks.  The general area (Pawnee and Broadway) hit bottom in the late nineties/early noughties and is currently in the middle of a revival.

There used to be a mall, Pawnee Plaza, at the southeast corner, with Woolco as the anchor store.  Malls of America has a blurb with a 1973 photo here:

http://mallsofamerica.blogspot.com/2006/11/pawnee-plaza-mall.html

There were offices there in addition to retail.  My grandmother was working there for Southwestern Bell as an executive secretary when she retired in 1981.

At some point in the late 1970's or early 1980's, Walmart moved in and became the anchor store.  The mall began dying, since--like other smaller shopping centers around Wichita like the Harry Street Mall and Twin Lakes--it could not compete with Towne East or Towne West.  Eventually there were media reports of used diapers left in the Walmart parking lot.  Finally, around 2003, Walmart bought up the entire mall, demolished all of the buildings, and built the Supercenter that currently stands there.  The City of Wichita refurbished the Pawnee & Broadway intersection as a complementary improvement.

Quote from: roadman65 on November 05, 2015, 11:54:46 PMI did notice that the old Arkansas River Bridge (the southbound span) prohibits trucks and must detour around it.  I am guessing the last inspection brought up issues and I will assume that it will be years before the city repairs or fixes those that are most likely structural issues that warrant the trucks off the span.

The southbound span is the John Mack Bridge and is the longest surviving Marsh arch bridge left in Kansas, and the second longest in the US.

http://www.kansassampler.org/8wonders/architectureresults.php?id=64

The city actually considered demolishing it and replacing it almost twenty-five years ago, but decided to impose a truck ban and preserve it after there was an outcry.  It was a stop on the Wichita meet tour back in July 2013.

It sounds like you had a good visit and a chance to learn the town in some depth.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

roadman65

Yes I had an awesome visit.  I learned a lot about the town as I just stayed there from last Wednesday to this Wednesday.  The only thing that you need is a bus to the airport as your town lacks that.

I was amazed at Downtown.  You have a lot of nice historical buildings in addition to the new office buildings.  The riverfront is kept nice.  You have the Orphium Theater as well as the In Trust Arena.  My friend I stayed with says it should have been built bigger with more seating capacity, as he thinks its way too small.

I love Braums and even Spangles.  Both are regional chains in your area.  Braums has a nice dairy store inside and great milk!  The ice cream with its two scoop cones at a buck seventy nine was not only delicious but well worth the price!  The burgers put the other fast food to shame.  Spangles was OK, but its the 50's nostalgic atmosphere of the place that made that place.  Then the Town and Country Restaurant near US 54 and I-235 that is great.  I did not visit this time, but when I was there in July I ate there twice.  Once on way to the airport to fly home as breakfast was so good there.  The pancakes were huge!

Yes I plan to visit again.  Everyone there seems so nice.  For roading to see improvements along the areas you mention will make it.   I know someone on here who has yet clinched I-135, who maybe I might try to do it with him.  I have not yet clinched it either as I would like to see from Newton to Salina as I have only done from its southern terminus to US 50 so far.

I also want to clinch K-96 from the Northwest interchange to Hutchinson as it seems interesting on the map. Part freeway and other parts arterial.  I know that on four lane non freeways Kansas allows 70 mph just like on most of K-254.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

kphoger

Does anyone know what department is handling the improvements along 53rd Street North, straddling the Park City and Wichita line?  The entire roadway has been ripped up east of Hydraulic, and power lines are being relocated, plus who know what else.  I cannot find any project info on the websites for any of the departments I've looked on.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

J N Winkler

Quote from: kphoger on April 07, 2016, 02:48:31 PMDoes anyone know what department is handling the improvements along 53rd Street North, straddling the Park City and Wichita line?  The entire roadway has been ripped up east of Hydraulic, and power lines are being relocated, plus who know what else.  I cannot find any project info on the websites for any of the departments I've looked on.

That project was let by KDOT in December 2015 under project number 87 N-0606-01.  Construction plans are here:

http://ksdot1.ksdot.org/burconsmain/contracts/Proposals/Plans/515122575p.pdf

It is essentially a widening of 53rd Street that includes reconstruction of its intersection with Hydraulic.  Project limits are I-135 in the west and the northwest corner of the Heights High School campus in the east.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

kphoger

Quote from: J N Winkler on November 05, 2015, 11:28:35 AM
*  Dugan Road interchange--I don't know who built it, but suspect KDOT (mid-1990's 1996)

*  Oliver--I don't know who built it, but suspect KDOT (late 1990's)

*  Edgemoor, Woodlawn--I don't know who built it, but suspect KDOT (early 2000's)

I just texted my friend, who is a bridge engineer in Wichita (you met him during the meet). His reply:

"I believe those were exclusively built with City funds. KDOT is a part of our Webb project but they were not a part of the ones you mention. Ironically, I THINK KDOT owns those bridges now, though. Not sure about that. "
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

J N Winkler

I think our mutual acquaintance is correct that the three projects in question were funded out of the sales-tax increment.  I thought KDOT might have done them because when I approached the City of Wichita for construction plans for all of the Kellogg projects, those were not included in the package I was given, as was also the case for the 1979-1981 stretch of freeway from Topeka to Bluff, which was definitely done by KDOT.  I was told I would have to go to KDOT for plans for any segments not in city files.

According to the current CCL map for Wichita, all of freeway US 54 within the city limits is maintained by KDOT.

As an aside, the KDOT project number is not an useful guide as to lead agency, because all of the recent Kellogg freeway projects have had KDOT jurisdiction identifiers ("K" or "KA" in the project number) regardless of whether KDOT has actually been in charge of construction.  KDOT has even assigned its own shadow project numbers to the part of the freeway that runs from the West Street SPUI to the railroad overpass just east of downtown, which was designed by HNTB for the City of Wichita and does not have KDOT title sheets.

I suspect the employer of our mutual acquaintance has done quite well out of the Kellogg/Webb/KTA project.  The construction currently in progress is for a descoped version of the original design that has access to the Turnpike only from the south side of Kellogg.  I remember reading a City Council agenda packet calling for our acquaintance's employer to be paid an amount in the high seven figures (maybe $8 million?) to develop full PS&E for the original design, which ultimately ran to almost 1200 sheets and was quite tasty with a lot of bridge work and about 25 sign panel detail and sign elevation sheets.  It had to be discarded in favor of the current concept when the low bid came in well over estimate, though I suspect a substantial proportion of the original final design work was recycled in the course of assembling PS&E for the current construction project.  (I do not have a copy of it, since it was farmed out to a blueprint company instead of being made available online for public download.)
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

kphoger

Quote from: J N Winkler on April 07, 2016, 09:20:46 PM
Quote from: kphoger on April 07, 2016, 02:48:31 PMDoes anyone know what department is handling the improvements along 53rd Street North, straddling the Park City and Wichita line?  The entire roadway has been ripped up east of Hydraulic, and power lines are being relocated, plus who know what else.  I cannot find any project info on the websites for any of the departments I've looked on.

That project was let by KDOT in December 2015 under project number 87 N-0606-01.  Construction plans are here:

http://ksdot1.ksdot.org/burconsmain/contracts/Proposals/Plans/515122575p.pdf

It is essentially a widening of 53rd Street that includes reconstruction of its intersection with Hydraulic.  Project limits are I-135 in the west and the northwest corner of the Heights High School campus in the east.

Rats.  We were all hoping they would be four-laning 53rd Street.  Unfortunately, it looks like the "widening" is actually just the installation of a sidewalk and a slight shift of the roadway to the south.  The intersection of 53rd and Hydraulic can get very backed up during the school rush, with only two lanes and a four-way stop.  I saw mention on Sheet #21 of a "traffic signal vault" at that intersection; do you know if that means they're planning to install a stoplight or just planning ahead?
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J N Winkler

They are actually four-laning 53rd Street (currently just two lanes) between Hydraulic and I-135, and widening it to a three-lane curb-and-gutter section (with TWLTL) east of Hydraulic.  This should result in some queue reduction, though I find that even arterials with a minimum of four through lanes each get a bit overloaded at letting-out time in the vicinity of the USD 259 high schools.

It also looks like they are shifting Hydraulic a bit more to the east.  It seems that the section line generally sits on the west edge of its ROW, which kind of surprises me, since I would have expected its centerline to overlap the section line.

The traffic signal vault you see called out on Sheet 21 is shown in gray, which usually signifies an existing feature.  I think it might have been installed in the past in anticipation of flashers rather than a full-blown traffic signal.  Notwithstanding the proximity of Heights, I tend to think traffic flows at this intersection favor a roundabout rather than a traffic signal.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

kphoger

I must be reading the sheet wrong, then.  The way I'm looking at it, the roadway width is 22 feet between John Deere and Hydraulic, which is not nearly enough for four lanes.  Please correct me where I'm wrong in looking at it, because this is not my "thing".

I've long thought about a roundabout at this location but, because of the school, there is a LOT more straight-through traffic than any other movement at peak times of day.  A simple two-way stop might actually function pretty well.

And, yes, I forgot that there was existing electrification for flashing stop beacons.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

J N Winkler

Quote from: kphoger on April 08, 2016, 12:34:21 PMI must be reading the sheet wrong, then.  The way I'm looking at it, the roadway width is 22 feet between John Deere and Hydraulic, which is not nearly enough for four lanes.  Please correct me where I'm wrong in looking at it, because this is not my "thing".

The 22 ft measurement you are seeing applies to both sides of the baseline, which here is effectively the centerline of the pavement, so the total with is 44 ft, which is adequate for four lanes with an unit lane width of 11 ft.  East of Hydraulic, it goes to 17 ft on either side of the baseline, which amounts to a total width of 34 ft that I think is distributed as 11 ft for each of the two through lanes and 12 ft for the TWLTL.

There is typically a lot of information on plan and profile sheets, so it is easy to misinterpret detail on cursory examination.  I have found two tricks useful for a reality check.  The first is to check for hatching (gray in this case) that refers to demolition; for this particular project this corresponds to pretty much all of existing 53rd Street from the start of the current four-lane section eastward.  Since they are converting it from open to closed drainage as well as widening it, they have to rip up pretty much all of the existing pavement in order to install storm drains and grade out the existing side ditches.  The hatching is noticeably narrower than the proposed improvement as shown on the plan sheets and this in turn is a cue that widening is going on, with a possible net gain in lane count.

The second trick is to compare the plan sheets with the striping plans, which show clearly the number of lanes that are supposed to be painted on the finished pavement.  In this plans set, however, they can be kind of hard to interpret because the construction baselines are shown in a heavy stroke that tends to obscure the lighter strokes used for the actual markings.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

WichitaRoads

I've broken my long silence.... :)

Are they going to add signals to the 53rd and I-135 ramp intersections?

ICTRds

kphoger

The plan sheet didn't have anything in there about signals at all, so I'm assuming not.  I'm kind of on the fence about signals at that location, personally.  One thing my boss pointed out when he saw the plan sheet is that they're apparently changing 53rd/Hydraulic to a two-way stop instead of a four-way stop, but the stop signs are facing 53rd Street traffic.  That's weird, since 53rd is by far the busier road.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

J N Winkler

Quote from: kphoger on April 14, 2016, 01:49:23 PMOne thing my boss pointed out when he saw the plan sheet is that they're apparently changing 53rd/Hydraulic to a two-way stop instead of a four-way stop, but the stop signs are facing 53rd Street traffic.  That's weird, since 53rd is by far the busier road.

It is still going to be a four-way stop.  I think your boss missed the (really small) "ALL WAY" plaques under the 53rd Street stop signs, and the Hydraulic stop signs (also with "ALL WAY" plaques) are on a separate sheet.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

kphoger

Gotcha.  Thanks for pointing that out.  It was making no sense to us why they would have done it that way.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.



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