Has the flashing yellow left turn signal made it to your state?

[empirestate]

Not sure if someone already posted this but the flashing yellow arrow has made an appearance in Midtown Manhattan (7th Ave & 31st Street, in front of Penn Station).

Yes, NYC (and Manhattan in particular) is an area where some of the earliest sightings were made, and they continue to proliferate.

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

There is another new one installed 2 weeks ago in Queens, W/B Queens Blvd service road at Broadway/Grand Ave. Its similar to the one posted above, when the main light turns green, the red right arrow stays lit for 7 seconds to let peds start crossing, then turns to flashing yellow.

[thenetwork]

Earlier this year, CDOT realigned this intersection in Loma, CO https://www.google.com/maps/@39.1963696,-108.8124684,3a,75y,306.59h,89.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sKJajVImPLR--UrdFs2JhiA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 and put in a traffic light.  On WB US-6, there is a 4-segment light that looks to have a FYA, but in the few times I've been by there, it has never been active. 

Maybe because this light is out in the middle of nowhere and the current traffic does not warrant it, or that it's related to the adjacent RR crossing and it may be a solid red arrow for left-turns when the gates are down??? I wish there was a current GSV to show.

[paulthemapguy]

Here's a photo of an FYA I found in Bowling Green, Kentucky.

IMG_6663 by Paul Drives, on Flickr

[ColossalBlocks]

Missouri, Both cities and MoDot has started using the flashing yellow arrow. St Louis, Cape Girardeau, Kansas City, Joplin, Springfield, Nevada, St Joseph (Idiots), and every other city with traffic lights has been infected.

[traffic light guy]

PA is the only state that doesn't have yellow traps. Instead, they've been using doghouses since the early-1970s.

[Revive 755]

Missouri, Both cities and MoDot has started using the flashing yellow arrow.

And because of this Missouri has many great examples of well coordinated signals while still allowing permissive lefts.

[jeffandnicole]

PA is the only state that doesn't have yellow traps. Instead, they've been using doghouses since the early-1970s.

Eh? PA has PLENTY of yellow traps! This is due to their overuse of "Opposing traffic has extended green" signals.

[traffic light guy]

PA is the only state that doesn't have yellow traps. Instead, they've been using doghouses since the early-1970s.

Eh? PA has PLENTY of yellow traps! This is due to their overuse of "Opposing traffic has extended green" signals.

I live in PennDOT District 6,  the rules are different down where I'm at

[jakeroot]

PA is the only state that doesn't have yellow traps. Instead, they've been using doghouses since the early-1970s.

Eh? PA has PLENTY of yellow traps! This is due to their overuse of "Opposing traffic has extended green" signals.

I live in PennDOT District 6,  the rules are different down where I'm at

1) PennDOT District 6 doesn't represent the entirety of Pennsylvania (as I think you realise now)
2) Doghouses are the reason that yellow trap exists
3) Many states have done away with the yellow trap through FYAs. Washington doesn't permit pro/per signals at junctions with lead/lag phasing (unless w/ FYA).

[cl94]

3) Many states have done away with the yellow trap through FYAs. Washington doesn't permit pro/per signals at junctions with lead/lag phasing (unless w/ FYA).

As in at least half of other states at this point. Even New York is getting onto the bandwagon and they're typically one of the last to do anything new. Heck, we still ban self-driving cars and parking assist.

[jeffandnicole]

3) Many states have done away with the yellow trap through FYAs. Washington doesn't permit pro/per signals at junctions with lead/lag phasing (unless w/ FYA).

As in at least half of other states at this point. Even New York is getting onto the bandwagon and they're typically one of the last to do anything new. Heck, we still ban self-driving cars and parking assist.

They were #1 with the seatbelt laws!

[roadfro]

2) Doghouses are the reason that yellow trap exists

Correction: Doghouses, combined with lead-lag protected phasing, are the reason that yellow trap exists. The mere existence of a doghouse does not induce yellow trap.

[jakeroot]

2) Doghouses are the reason that yellow trap exists

Correction: Doghouses, combined with lead-lag protected phasing, are the reason that yellow trap exists. The mere existence of a doghouse does not induce yellow trap.

Well, yeah. My point is that, without the doghouse, lead/lag phasing would never have been possible. The introduction of the doghouse led to lead/lag phasing.

[UCFKnights]

2) Doghouses are the reason that yellow trap exists

Correction: Doghouses, combined with lead-lag protected phasing, are the reason that yellow trap exists. The mere existence of a doghouse does not induce yellow trap.

Not necessarily true. Many lights are programmed phase skipping combined with a delay or minimum number of vehicles in the permissive turn lane for it to get a protected signal. During off peak hours, this can (and for me at certain intersections, frequently has) led to the yellow trap.

In more details if you don't follow: Suppose I am traveling down a road and am making the next left turn. At this intersection, the sidestreets have no vehicles at all, so the phases associated with them will be skipped. The opposing left turn lane has a queue of 5 cars trying to make a left. I approach to make the left turn, and after 2 seconds, the signal gives my direction's straight movement a red ball, while the opposing direction remains with a green ball and gets its green arrow as I was not in the lane long enough to register and cause my lane to get a protected arrow. I would be in the yellow trap state, but get the green ball back after the opposing protected phase has ended. Obviously, in this scenario, with the FYA instead of doghouse, my light would remain in its FYA state so I would know not to try to clear the intersection. The lagging phases are rare around here, and I try to drive during off hours as much as I can, so this scenario was a more frequent form of yellow trap for me then lagging lefts (nearly all the signals near me now have been upgraded to FYA).

[jakeroot]

Not necessarily true. Many lights are programmed phase skipping combined with a delay or minimum number of vehicles in the permissive turn lane for it to get a protected signal. During off peak hours, this can (and for me at certain intersections, frequently has) led to the yellow trap.

In more details if you don't follow: Suppose I am traveling down a road and am making the next left turn. At this intersection, the sidestreets have no vehicles at all, so the phases associated with them will be skipped. The opposing left turn lane has a queue of 5 cars trying to make a left. I approach to make the left turn, and after 2 seconds, the signal gives my direction's straight movement a red ball, while the opposing direction remains with a green ball and gets its green arrow as I was not in the lane long enough to register and cause my lane to get a protected arrow. I would be in the yellow trap state, but get the green ball back after the opposing protected phase has ended. Obviously, in this scenario, with the FYA instead of doghouse, my light would remain in its FYA state so I would know not to try to clear the intersection. The lagging phases are rare around here, and I try to drive during off hours as much as I can, so this scenario was a more frequent form of yellow trap for me then lagging lefts (nearly all the signals near me now have been upgraded to FYA).

If there were cars in the opposing left turn lane, waiting for traffic to clear (coming from your direction), and it flips on the green arrow for them with cars still approaching, that's classic yellow trap. Such phasing should only be allowed if there was no one coming (which isn't the case in your example, because the cars waiting would have already turned if there were no approaching cars).

Oh, and BTW: your example still requires a 5-section signal to operate, hence my point that yellow trap is only possible with 5-section signals.

[UCFKnights]

Not necessarily true. Many lights are programmed phase skipping combined with a delay or minimum number of vehicles in the permissive turn lane for it to get a protected signal. During off peak hours, this can (and for me at certain intersections, frequently has) led to the yellow trap.

In more details if you don't follow: Suppose I am traveling down a road and am making the next left turn. At this intersection, the sidestreets have no vehicles at all, so the phases associated with them will be skipped. The opposing left turn lane has a queue of 5 cars trying to make a left. I approach to make the left turn, and after 2 seconds, the signal gives my direction's straight movement a red ball, while the opposing direction remains with a green ball and gets its green arrow as I was not in the lane long enough to register and cause my lane to get a protected arrow. I would be in the yellow trap state, but get the green ball back after the opposing protected phase has ended. Obviously, in this scenario, with the FYA instead of doghouse, my light would remain in its FYA state so I would know not to try to clear the intersection. The lagging phases are rare around here, and I try to drive during off hours as much as I can, so this scenario was a more frequent form of yellow trap for me then lagging lefts (nearly all the signals near me now have been upgraded to FYA).

If there were cars in the opposing left turn lane, waiting for traffic to clear (coming from your direction), and it flips on the green arrow for them with cars still approaching, that's classic yellow trap. Such phasing should only be allowed if there was no one coming (which isn't the case in your example, because the cars waiting would have already turned if there were no approaching cars).

Oh, and BTW: your example still requires a 5-section signal to operate, hence my point that yellow trap is only possible with 5-section signals.

I was agreeing with you, disagreeing with the lagging left is required for a yellow trap. As I said, it has been mostly solved here as most have been upgraded to FYA.

There are also a few vehicles who seemingly won't ever go without an arrow in a protected-permissive light. For example, school buses, for whatever reason seem particularly unlikely to go even if there is no oncoming traffic at all (they also seemingly do not like to turn right on red, it seems they may be trained on these 2 things for whatever reason).

The new form of "FYA" trap that seems to be occurring around here is a large set of drivers seem to not understand the FYA combined with a red ball in their direction. If the FYA is flashing and there is a red ball, and clear as day no oncoming traffic at all, they just will not turn at all until they get a green ball WITH a FYA, even if you honk, the person in front of them goes, etc... I think some people think FYA means "the light is broken in this direction". Also, on streets with lagging lefts, certain people who are in the intersection during the classic yellow trap moment and now are facing the FYA with the red ball try to REVERSE behind the line rather then continue to wait during their permissive phase to finish at the end of it. I don't know if these 2 things are occurring everywhere or just in my area.

[vdeane]

School busses are prohibited by law from turning right on red.  Not sure why they wouldn't take a permissive left.  Drivers not taking a FYA with a red ball are probably unfamiliar with the idea of a permissive left with straight red.  Quite frankly, it's odd, and goes against everything that ever existed before FYAs appeared.

[jakeroot]

Drivers not taking a FYA with a red ball are probably unfamiliar with the idea of a permissive left with straight red.  Quite frankly, it's odd, and goes against everything that ever existed before FYAs appeared.

A permissive phase with a straight red is odd, but having a separate turn signal for the turn lane is not.

[mrsman]

Drivers not taking a FYA with a red ball are probably unfamiliar with the idea of a permissive left with straight red.  Quite frankly, it's odd, and goes against everything that ever existed before FYAs appeared.

A permissive phase with a straight red is odd, but having a separate turn signal for the turn lane is not.

And this is the point of the FYA - to try to focus drivers on looking at the FYA signal only and to ignore what parallel same direction traffic is doing.  A person making a left turn should only care about what opposite direction traffic is doing.

But this may be easier said than done.  I know that I am inclined to presume that opposing traffic will stop if parallel traffic has a red light.  Hence, the "perceived" yellow trap, even with the presence of a FYA.

[roadfro]

Correction: Doghouses, combined with lead-lag protected phasing, are the reason that yellow trap exists. The mere existence of a doghouse does not induce yellow trap.

Well, yeah. My point is that, without the doghouse, lead/lag phasing would never have been possible. The introduction of the doghouse led to lead/lag phasing.

Lead/lag phasing is not dependent upon a doghouse. Lead/lag phasing is used all the time at protected-only signals (and was likely used in protected-only applications long before being used at a PPLT), especially where intersection geometry doesn't permit simultaneous left turns or where an arterial corridor is programmed for bi-directional signal coordination.

Correction: Doghouses, combined with lead-lag protected phasing, are the reason that yellow trap exists. The mere existence of a doghouse does not induce yellow trap.

Not necessarily true. Many lights are programmed phase skipping combined with a delay or minimum number of vehicles in the permissive turn lane for it to get a protected signal. During off peak hours, this can (and for me at certain intersections, frequently has) led to the yellow trap.

In more details if you don't follow: Suppose I am traveling down a road and am making the next left turn. At this intersection, the sidestreets have no vehicles at all, so the phases associated with them will be skipped. The opposing left turn lane has a queue of 5 cars trying to make a left. I approach to make the left turn, and after 2 seconds, the signal gives my direction's straight movement a red ball, while the opposing direction remains with a green ball and gets its green arrow as I was not in the lane long enough to register and cause my lane to get a protected arrow. I would be in the yellow trap state, but get the green ball back after the opposing protected phase has ended. Obviously, in this scenario, with the FYA instead of doghouse, my light would remain in its FYA state so I would know not to try to clear the intersection. The lagging phases are rare around here, and I try to drive during off hours as much as I can, so this scenario was a more frequent form of yellow trap for me then lagging lefts (nearly all the signals near me now have been upgraded to FYA).

.

The scenario you're describing sounds like it would be either a dual lead or dual lag. This would result in the yellow trap under a specific set of circumstances, namely all side street phases skipped and you arriving at a specific point in the cycle that ends up being too late to activate your protected turn phase. (Note that if your direction got a protected left immediately after the opposing protected left ended, it would be a lead-lag phasing.)

But agreed overall that FYA would eliminate the yellow trap caused by all these phase skip scenarios.

If there were cars in the opposing left turn lane, waiting for traffic to clear (coming from your direction), and it flips on the green arrow for them with cars still approaching, that's classic yellow trap. Such phasing should only be allowed if there was no one coming (which isn't the case in your example, because the cars waiting would have already turned if there were no approaching cars).

Oh, and BTW: your example still requires a 5-section signal to operate, hence my point that yellow trap is only possible with 5-section signals.

I don't think this is yellow trap, at least not for the opposing left. Say you're northbound and the opposing left is southbound. As you describe it, the southbound left gets the protected green, so by definition it's not a yellow trap. The yellow trap occurs for the northbound left.

Yellow trap can be possible without a 5-section signal, but it would be an unusual set of circumstances. For example, a westbound road has a short left turn lane into a small alley or business driveway that typically receives minimal traffic and thus has no dedicated left turn signal (thus controlled by the adjacent through signal with left turns yielding on green ball). The same road eastbound has a dedicated left turn movement onto another street. If the eastbound left turn is a lagging left, a yellow trap can result for the westbound left. Again, an unusual set of circumstances, but not impossible...

[jakeroot]

Correction: Doghouses, combined with lead-lag protected phasing, are the reason that yellow trap exists. The mere existence of a doghouse does not induce yellow trap.

Well, yeah. My point is that, without the doghouse, lead/lag phasing would never have been possible. The introduction of the doghouse led to lead/lag phasing.

Lead/lag phasing is not dependent upon a doghouse. Lead/lag phasing is used all the time at protected-only signals (and was likely used in protected-only applications long before being used at a PPLT), especially where intersection geometry doesn't permit simultaneous left turns or where an arterial corridor is programmed for bi-directional signal coordination.

Yes, I understand this. I was under the impression that the discussion was only about PPLT.

I don't think this is yellow trap, at least not for the opposing left. Say you're northbound and the opposing left is southbound. As you describe it, the southbound left gets the protected green, so by definition it's not a yellow trap. The yellow trap occurs for the northbound left.

Of course. But, if someone was in the through lane, and decided at the last second to turn left around the same time that the light turned yellow, they might be put into a yellow trap scenario.

[JMAN_WiS&S]

School busses are prohibited by law from turning right on red.  Not sure why they wouldn't take a permissive left.

It isn't illegal everywhere. Not illegal in Wisconsin. I think a school bus is less inclined to take a medium sized gap since they can get up and go while turning fast and squeezing through. They need to turn nice and slow to not dump all the kids on the floor. If oncoming traffic is minimal they should take the turn as normal.

[Brandon]

School busses are prohibited by law from turning right on red.  Not sure why they wouldn't take a permissive left.

It isn't illegal everywhere. Not illegal in Wisconsin. I think a school bus is less inclined to take a medium sized gap since they can get up and go while turning fast and squeezing through. They need to turn nice and slow to not dump all the kids on the floor. If oncoming traffic is minimal they should take the turn as normal.

And it's not illegal in Illinois either.  You do; however, see the occasional school bus with a sticker on that back stating that it does not turn right on red.  But that seems to be up to the school district or school bus operator.

[Ace10]

Drivers not taking a FYA with a red ball are probably unfamiliar with the idea of a permissive left with straight red.  Quite frankly, it's odd, and goes against everything that ever existed before FYAs appeared.

A permissive phase with a straight red is odd, but having a separate turn signal for the turn lane is not.

The same thing may have been said when left turn signals initially came about. Drivers may have thought it felt weird to turn on a green arrow when the parallel through signals were red. Yet, everyone seems to have gotten used to it. Granted with a green arrow, the movement is protected, and oncoming traffic should not be entering the intersection on such a signal, but the fact remains people got used to seeing one signal with a green indication and other signals with a red indication, and knew what to do in such a situation.

Lots of signals here (Portland metro area in Oregon) implement lead/lag phasing depending on traffic, which I think is neat. If left-turning traffic on both sides is queued up, they'll both usually get green arrows, but sometimes one side will get the green arrow while the opposing side gets a flashing yellow. At one particular intersection, there's usually a super long line of cars queued up making left turns, and I'm normally on the other side waiting to turn left. While through traffic sits at a red waiting for the line of opposing left-turning vehicles, I'm able to make my permissive left since opposing through traffic is usually light.

That's why I'm a big fan of the FYA - they allow each movement to be controlled separately, and allow non-conflicting movements to be made permissively if they can be made safely. My left turn shouldn't have to be dependent on what parallel through traffic is doing; the only thing that should concern me is opposing through and right-turning traffic.