VMSes better off left off

Started by Mr. Matté, July 03, 2012, 08:50:09 PM

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flowmotion

Well, keep in mind that the public has nearly zero trust in the government.

If they see a VMS that's turned off, they assume (1) The gobernmint built this wasteful thing which they never use, or (2) It's broken and they're too incompetent to fix it. (And I suppose that flashing a message is actually useful for testing purposes. )


roadfro

I appreciated what NDOT used to do with a VMS that didn't have an important message to display...a single small dot would remain lit in the bottom right corner. You could tell the sign was working, but had nothing to say.

I'll note that NDOT doesn't put up the feel-good messages all the time just to have a message up. The signs are dark more often than not if not displaying travel time info. There was a period about a year or two ago in Reno that they seemed to be cycling through a bunch of safety messages in a short time frame.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

deathtopumpkins

Noticed on my drive down to Fall River yesterday that all around 128 and 93 MassDOT's placed portable VMSes on the shoulder displaying travel times to various destinations (oddly enough including one on 93 for "Exit 18 - Boston" - Exit 18 is south of the tunnels, all the exits for downtown are in the low 20s).

Using portable VMSes struck me as odd since they were on highways that had permanent overhead ones, often at the same place. Most of the overhead ones were off, but a couple displayed the same stupid "Be safe / disabled vehicles / always use your / emergency / hazard lights" message they've been broadcasting for the past few months, which replaced "left lane travel / only allowed / when passing"
Disclaimer: All posts represent my personal opinions and not those of my employer.

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Compulov

Quote from: roadfro on July 09, 2012, 04:03:07 AM
I appreciated what NDOT used to do with a VMS that didn't have an important message to display...a single small dot would remain lit in the bottom right corner. You could tell the sign was working, but had nothing to say.
That's the same thing PennDOT does with theirs (at least the newer ones they put around Bucks County). Generally they either have travel times or are blank (with the dot). I suggested a while ago (in a thread in a galaxy far far away) that these signs should have flashing yellow lights or something mounted to them which are *only* used when there's an actual alert on the display. Assuming this wasn't abused, it could be effective enough to snap drivers out of their haze long enough to see the message. I personally *always* look at the VMS because I want to know if there's trouble ahead (when you see TIME TO US 1 2 MI 8 MIN you know you're getting into trouble).

Quote from: deathtopumpkins on July 09, 2012, 07:38:29 AM
Using portable VMSes struck me as odd since they were on highways that had permanent overhead ones, often at the same place. Most of the overhead ones were off, but a couple displayed the same stupid "Be safe / disabled vehicles / always use your / emergency / hazard lights" message they've been broadcasting for the past few months, which replaced "left lane travel / only allowed / when passing"

I've seen this elsewhere there are older VMSes. NJ also uses them in construction zones. I can only assume that in the case of non-construction zones, that it's a compatibility thing. Maybe the older signs aren't able to interface with whatever system is generating the travel times. As for construction, I think NJ uses portable EZPass readers and traffic counters in some sort of closed loop for the temporary signs.

codyg1985

The VMS signs in the Birmingham, AL metro area display travel times or warn about Ozone Alert days. There is also portable VMSs along I-65 at the Tennessee River bridge in both directions that says "Slippery When Wet, Reduce Speed." I'm surprised it doesn't warn of foggy conditions.
Cody Goodman
Huntsville, AL, United States

roadman

#55
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on July 09, 2012, 07:38:29 AM
Noticed on my drive down to Fall River yesterday that all around 128 and 93 MassDOT's placed portable VMSes on the shoulder displaying travel times to various destinations (oddly enough including one on 93 for "Exit 18 - Boston" - Exit 18 is south of the tunnels, all the exits for downtown are in the low 20s).

Using portable VMSes struck me as odd since they were on highways that had permanent overhead ones, often at the same place. Most of the overhead ones were off, but a couple displayed the same stupid "Be safe / disabled vehicles / always use your / emergency / hazard lights" message they've been broadcasting for the past few months, which replaced "left lane travel / only allowed / when passing"

MassDOT's new I-93 travel time system is essentally the same one they used during the Medford Fast 14 bridge replacement project last summer.  After that project was completed last September, the demand by drivers, communities, and local planning groups for a permanent travel time system was so great that MassDOT decided to go ahead and put in the boards full-time.

At the time of the Fast 14 project, there were no permanent VMS boards on I-93 - they are currently being installed as part of the I-93 Somerville to Wilmington and Wilmington to Methuen sign projects, so it's logical they would use portable boards in the short term.  For one thing, they operate off of solar power, which the larger overhead boards can't.

Personally, I agree with deathtopumpkins that using the same type of boards found in construction zones is not necessarily a good idea.  They could at least paint the VMSes for travel time a different color, or perhaps put a small sign tab indicating "TRAVEL TIMES" above the VMS display.

"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

roadman

Quote from: flowmotion on July 09, 2012, 02:53:35 AM
Well, keep in mind that the public has nearly zero trust in the government.

If they see a VMS that's turned off, they assume (1) The gobernmint built this wasteful thing which they never use, or (2) It's broken and they're too incompetent to fix it. (And I suppose that flashing a message is actually useful for testing purposes. )

I'd be willing to bet that if you surveyed the public affairs people at various state DOTs, most of them would tell you that they get far more complaints about the "nanny" messages (for those states that display them) than they do about the VMSes being "off" most of the time.
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

roadman

#57
Quote from: deathtopumpkins on July 06, 2012, 02:34:52 PM

I was going more for cultural things like your own zoo and museum examples rather than sporting events, because, as already established, VMSes relating to sports are usually something along the lines of a simple "GO PATRIOTS!"...
Because while yes, to everyone who follows sports, they're pointless since they already know when and where the games are, for other things that's not so much. Cultural attractions are more subject to spontaneous visits, along the lines of "Oh, wow, the new wing of the museum's opening, we should go check it out this weekend!"

My main point here is that this isn't pure advertising like you see on billboards, TV, radio, etc., because it's not just some private company trying to sell you a product - it's a cultural institution informing you of a new reason to visit (yes, you usually have to spend money, but I'd reckon at least 90% of museums, etc. are operated either by government or a non-profit organization).
There is a difference between a VMS being used by Ford to announce a new car and a VMS being used by a museum to announce a new exhibit.
Even if we stick with sporting events, these VMSes that say things like "GO PATRIOTS" around major games are merely showing support for the team, as they are a part of the region's culture, they aren't reminding you to buy tickets or merchandise.

As for your TV experiment, I do not own a TV, and the primary reason is exactly what you're trying to illustrate to me - the excessive level of saturation of advertisements. I already recognize that there are more ads on TV now than there used to be and that as a result shows are getting cut shorter (even reruns of recent shows are frequently subjected to minor editing to squeeze in an extra minute or two of commercials - reruns of early episodes of The Simpsons are notorious for this.
I may be younger than you, but I'm not an imbecile.

With respect, advertising is still advertising - regardless if it's for a for-profit like Ford or a non-profit like the local museum.  And I'm not sure about other states, but MassDOT has provided Attractions logo signs for local non-profit museums and venues at no cost to them.

And I apologize if you were offended by my suggestion to compare broadcast TV episodes with DVD episodes.  I greatly respect the fact that you have decided not to own a TV - I have several friends who made the same decision.

For the record, I still own a TV, but rarely watch any current programming, I mostly use it to watch DVDs of older shows I grew up with or specality videos like railroading subjects (besides roadgeeking, railfanning and model railroading is my other principal hobby).
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

roadman

Quote from: roadfro on July 08, 2012, 03:54:14 AM
Seen on I-80 West outside of Fernley, NV earlier today:

DRIVE CAREFULLY
OUR GOAL IS
ZERO FATALITIES
Ugh...

You have to wonder if any people have had a fender-bender or ran off the shoulder because they were distracted by that message.
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

Mr_Northside

Quote from: roadman on July 09, 2012, 02:21:14 PM
Quote from: roadfro on July 08, 2012, 03:54:14 AM
Seen on I-80 West outside of Fernley, NV earlier today:

DRIVE CAREFULLY
OUR GOAL IS
ZERO FATALITIES
Ugh...

You have to wonder if any people have had a fender-bender or ran off the shoulder because they were distracted by that message.

I would hope not.  If so, they probably shouldn't have a license or ever be driving anywhere.
I don't have opinions anymore. All I know is that no one is better than anyone else, and everyone is the best at everything

agentsteel53

no.  it's not their goal.  highway officials know damn well that there will always be a nonzero fatality rate.  one can minimize it, but the only way to achieve zero highway fatalities is to not have a highway at all. 
live from sunny San Diego.

http://shields.aaroads.com

jake@aaroads.com

exit322

Quote from: 1995hoo on July 06, 2012, 03:42:23 PM
I remember Sports Illustrated running a picture of a VMS near the Fort Pitt Tunnel in Pittsburgh during the NFL playoffs one year. It said something like,

ATTENTION BILLS FANS
TERRIBLE TOWEL ZONE
NO COMEBACKS ALLOWED

This was the week after the Bills had come back from a 32–3 deficit to beat the Houston Oilers 41–38 in overtime. The sign didn't work—the Bills beat the Steelers 24–3 and went on to lose their third consecutive Super Bowl.

Actually, it looks like the sign worked pretty well.  There certainly was no comeback that week.

r-dub

Normally the VMSes in Colorado Springs are quiet unless there's an actual issue happening. The other day, though, one VMS got a special message for a funeral procession for a police officer killed in the line of duty:
That's some serious class by CDOT or Springs Traffic.
Ryan "r-dub"
Roadgeekin' Colorado Style

bulkyorled

Click it or ticket or the new one I keep seeing "MOVE OVER OR SLOW DOWN FOR WORKERS, ITS THE LAW", oddly enough always on the freeways that don't have construction.
I never use to see them being used so often but within the last year I feel like they put up anything they can to make sure its being used. A lot more drive times are being put up; if not it's telling us to move over/slow down or click that shit or you'll get a ticket.
Your local illuminated sign enthusiast

Signs Im looking for: CA only; 1, 2, 14, 118, 134, 170, 210 (CA), and any california city illuminated sign.

agentsteel53

Quote from: bulkyorled on August 02, 2012, 05:21:07 AM
Click it or ticket or the new one I keep seeing "MOVE OVER OR SLOW DOWN FOR WORKERS, ITS THE LAW", oddly enough always on the freeways that don't have construction.
I never use to see them being used so often but within the last year I feel like they put up anything they can to make sure its being used. A lot more drive times are being put up; if not it's telling us to move over/slow down or click that shit or you'll get a ticket.

I absolutely despise the "move over" law.  I have been run off the road twice now by trucks who blindly move over without thinking that someone is passing them.  Once I came within about 1/3 of a second of hitting a bridge abutment - I had managed to sufficiently accelerate to get in front of the truck and off the median in time.
live from sunny San Diego.

http://shields.aaroads.com

jake@aaroads.com

Alps

Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 02, 2012, 12:12:25 PM
Quote from: bulkyorled on August 02, 2012, 05:21:07 AM
Click it or ticket or the new one I keep seeing "MOVE OVER OR SLOW DOWN FOR WORKERS, ITS THE LAW", oddly enough always on the freeways that don't have construction.
I never use to see them being used so often but within the last year I feel like they put up anything they can to make sure its being used. A lot more drive times are being put up; if not it's telling us to move over/slow down or click that shit or you'll get a ticket.

I absolutely despise the "move over" law.  I have been run off the road twice now by trucks who blindly move over without thinking that someone is passing them.  Once I came within about 1/3 of a second of hitting a bridge abutment - I had managed to sufficiently accelerate to get in front of the truck and off the median in time.
Truckers seem to be the worst offenders, they just pop over with no warning. I got hung out to dry in the right lane once when they all moved over just before an emergency vehicle. The law is, move over IF SAFE, not MOVE OVER NOW HOLY FUCK



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