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You are too old if you remember.......

Started by roadman65, August 17, 2013, 07:29:40 PM

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roadman65

All throughout our lives many of us have seen road come and go, sign and route changes, freeway additions, and old practices put to rest by the FHWA and MUTCD, lets have a thread where we can all recall something from many years ago that no longer exists.  Of course many of us are different ages here that makes the fun as to the younger road enthusiasts will recall ancient stuff to them that are going to be recent to us who are over 40, so it will sound most interesting this way.

I will start by saying that I must be old because I remember these:

New Jersey
The Garden State Parkway used to use exit tabs without the word "EXIT" and had the exit gore sign with its arrow within a circle.  In addition the NJDOT sections of the Parkway at Toms River and Northern Middlesex and most of Union County used LGSes for exit guides with the at exit sign in the gore of the ramp diverge.

NJ 17 had traffic signals north of US 46.
NJ roadways were concrete and used cable guard rails wired to white cement posts.
The NJ Turnpike used neon speed limit signs.
The Garden State Parkway allowed 60 mph north of Toms River and only 65 mph south of Toms River.
US 1 and US 130 originally had a traffic circle prior to the former intersection that was interchanged several years ago.
US 1 used US 1 Business into the Brunswick Circle to enter the Trenton Freeway from Strawberry Street.
US 22 only had two traffic signals between Somerville and Clinton: Country Club Road in Bridgewater and Cokesbury Road in Lebanon with flashing beacons in Whitehouse for CR 523.
Morristown, NJ had all double guy traffic signals and I-287 was incomplete north of Basking Ridge and South of NJ 10.  All traffic clogged US 202 in Morristown.  In addition there were no exit numbers on I-287 and LGSes were used instead of BGSes as guides between Montvale (the original North terminus) and NJ 10.
In Short Hills/ Summit both River Road/ JFK Parkway and NJ 24 met at grade and there was no freeway.
In Watchung, NJ I-78 terminated at Drift Road (Exit 41) with a barricade forcing all motorists off the freeway going eastbound.
NJDOT used white square shields for NJ Secondary 500 series routes.  Morris County was the first to use the present gold on blue shields and to actually sign their roadways as many counties did not!
In Woodbridge, NJ I remember when both US 9 and the Garden State Parkway were reversed in their alignments through the massive tangle.  US 9 was in the median of the Parkway instead of the GSP being in the middle of US 9 like it is now.
I remember when NJ 23 had only two stoplights between Stockholm, NJ and the NY State Line along the present two lane road: NJ 94 and Downtown Sussex where NJ 23 currently changes alignment.
NJ 94 had no stoplights from its southern terminus at Columbia to US 206 in Newton and furthermore only had one stoplight north of NJ 15 at NJ 23 in Hamburg.  NJ 94 and CR 515 in Vernon had a flashing beacon and northbound NJ 94 had to STOP while CR 515 was free flowing and flashed yellow.

Florida
I remember when county routes were shielded with State route shields and the prefix "S".
I remember when I-4 was 4 lanes completely through Orlando and there were no businesses as we know it now near Disney. 
I remember when US 192 and World Drive were the only way to enter the Magic Kingdom as the rest of Reedy Creek was not built.  World Drive was a rural freeway from 192 to the Parking Lot Toll booth and PARKING AT THE MAGIC KINGDOM WAS 50 CENTS!
I remember all Florida interstates having NO EXIT NUMBERS and State Routes were signed as "Fla XX" in text on guide signs.
I remember when I-75 terminated at malfunction junction in Tampa and I-275 was only signed south of I-4 because the current I-75 south of Exit 275 was not constructed.  I-275 was signed as such because it was indeed the defacto route until the early 80's.
I remember when US 41 south of Gibsonton was rural and Apollo Beach had no development and the current bayside hotel was a Holiday Inn.
I remember when SR 482 was FL 528 and the Beachline was under construction west of current Exit 8. Also the Airport mainline toll plaza was not there as FL 528 was an arterial from Boggy Creek Road (not built yet north of Taft) to FL 436.
I, of course, remember all US routes to have colored shields.
I remember when I-10 off of I-95 was a left exit going southbound and the St. Johns River Bridge was tolled.
I also remember when SR 472 in Orange City, FL and  SR 551 in Orlando were both SR 15A.
I even remember when SR 408 was shielded with a shield that had an orange on it with EAST WEST  Expressway stamped into it and it terminated at Pine Hills (that being a bedroom community then) just west of SR 435 at grade!
I also saw SR 435 having no stoplight at International Drive and Vineland Road despite those two intersections are heavily traveled through near the current Universal Resort.
I especially remembered SR 535 and US 192 intersecting at a wye intersection just east of where the two meet now.
I remembered even in late 1989 when US 192 had no stoplights west of I-4 with its westermost signal being just east of I-4 where Celebration Place is now.

There is a lot I can remember that some of you all will not believe, but this is it for now.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe


NE2

Quote from: roadman65 on August 17, 2013, 07:29:40 PM
I remember when county routes were shielded with State route shields and the prefix "S".
Those were secondary state roads. County roads were supposed to have the S covered by a C.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

roadman65

Quote from: NE2 on August 17, 2013, 08:09:02 PM
Quote from: roadman65 on August 17, 2013, 07:29:40 PM
I remember when county routes were shielded with State route shields and the prefix "S".
Those were secondary state roads. County roads were supposed to have the S covered by a C.
I actually remembered both.  In Sanford on FL 46 at CR 15 it was signed FL C-15, but CR 535 in LBV was FL S-535 until the state took over it south of I-4 and made it FL 535.  Even former FL 528A was FL S-528A at one point after the western 8 of the Beachline opened in 73.  I do not know if the state took it over when FL 528A was changed to FL 482 or before, but it was not state maintained, or I would think, for a short while when it was signed as FL S-528A.

Anyway, are not county and secondary pretty much the same thing?  I would assume that being a secondary meant it was county all along as the name "secondary" no longer exists.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

Brian556

Quote
Florida
I remember when county routes were shielded with State route shields and the prefix "S".
I remember when I-4 was 4 lanes completely through Orlando and there were no businesses as we know it now near Disney. 
I remember when US 192 and World Drive were the only way to enter the Magic Kingdom as the rest of Reedy Creek was not built.  World Drive was a rural freeway from 192 to the Parking Lot Toll booth and PARKING AT THE MAGIC KINGDOM WAS 50 CENTS!
I remember all Florida interstates having NO EXIT NUMBERS and State Routes were signed as "Fla XX" in text on guide signs.
I remember when I-75 terminated at malfunction junction in Tampa and I-275 was only signed south of I-4 because the current I-75 south of Exit 275 was not constructed.  I-275 was signed as such because it was indeed the defacto route until the early 80's.
I remember when US 41 south of Gibsonton was rural and Apollo Beach had no development and the current bayside hotel was a Holiday Inn.
I remember when SR 482 was FL 528 and the Beachline was under construction west of current Exit 8. Also the Airport mainline toll plaza was not there as FL 528 was an arterial from Boggy Creek Road (not built yet north of Taft) to FL 436.
I, of course, remember all US routes to have colored shields.
I remember when I-10 off of I-95 was a left exit going southbound and the St. Johns River Bridge was tolled.
I also remember when SR 472 in Orange City, FL and  SR 551 in Orlando were both SR 15A.
I even remember when SR 408 was shielded with a shield that had an orange on it with EAST WEST  Expressway stamped into it and it terminated at Pine Hills (that being a bedroom community then) just west of SR 435 at grade!
I also saw SR 435 having no stoplight at International Drive and Vineland Road despite those two intersections are heavily traveled through near the current Universal Resort.
I especially remembered SR 535 and US 192 intersecting at a wye intersection just east of where the two meet now.
I remembered even in late 1989 when US 192 had no stoplights west of I-4 with its westermost signal being just east of I-4 where Celebration Place is now.

There is a lot I can remember that some of you all will not believe, but this is it for now.
I definitely appreciate your Florida memories.

I don't think I've ever seen a pic of a Florida BGS with a textual SR designation on it.

My father lived in the Orlando area from 1990-1997.
Here's what I remember:
Almost all the abandoned railroads still being in place.
Colored US shields.
The E-W Expwy and Beeline markers.
Type B lights had giant metal battery cases
Folding barricades were the most common channeling device; it barrels now.
US 192 was four lane rural divided (no curb/gutter)
Traffic really wasn't bad like it is now.
CR 439 was two lane from SR 50 to Windermere.
My father mentioned he remembered the old RR Bridge over the FL Turnpike at what is now the E-W Expwy interchange.
The one thing that hasn't changed...Publix is basically the only grocery store you see in FL.

TheStranger

Just yesterday I was telling a friend about the 55 NMSL - which she has no memory of!
Chris Sampang

FightingIrish

I remember the HoJo's that spanned across the Tri-State Tollway in Illinois.

mUtcd33

#6
Heres what I remember:

When Sullivan Trl. in Easton, PA still had PA-115 signs on it (not sure if it was officially decommissioned or not; the signs were still there)
When PA-309 in Schecksville was only 2-3 lanes
When PA-100 near Fogelsville and Trexlertown had no industrial park entrances off it
When you had to drive through Trexlertown on PA-100 or US-222
When US-222 near Reading was the "Road to Nowhere", and it really led nowhere (I was very young)
When the PA Turnpike Northeast Ext. went from PA-9 to I-476 (again, I was very young)
When the PA-33/US-22 interchange was incomplete

Before I was born:

I-78 was routed on US-22 through the Lehigh Valley
When PA-378 was I-378 (I'm 99% sure this is true) and it didn't go all the way to Center Valley
When there were proposals to build I-178 in Allentown
When the proposed I-78 was listed on maps as a dashed line going SOUTH of Emmaus (not routed with PA-309, which was in fact built before I-78)
When Lehigh Street and Chestnut Street in South Allentown and Emmaus was PA-229
When there were FAR fewer stoplights at any place in the Valley (Save for Allentown and Bethlehem proper)

NE2

Quote from: roadman65 on August 17, 2013, 08:16:04 PM
Anyway, are not county and secondary pretty much the same thing?  I would assume that being a secondary meant it was county all along as the name "secondary" no longer exists.
Secondary was a different level of funding and maintenance.

Michael Summa, 1971, from http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/fl/us_441/
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

OracleUsr

From NC:

1.  When they had rudimentary Variable Speed Limit signs in the Smokies (said either "SPEED LIMIT 55" or "SPEED LIMIT 35 FOG"

2.  Green tabs on auxiliary signs in Asheville

3.  8" signals in High Point with elongated yellow lamp hoods.

4.  Double ground-mounted BGS' (one on each side of the road in advance of left exits).

5.  When I-40's exits remained unnumbered in large chunks in the mid-west and western part of the state, even through the late 80's.

6.  When "Fines Creek" used to be a word salad (I think it used to say Fines Creek/Great Smoky Mountains Nat'l Park)...or "Harmon Den" saying "Harmon Den/Game Refuge"

From South Carolina:

1.  Final BGS' saying "NEXT RIGHT" instead of having an arrow.
2.  Gore signs of such weird designs that would make a MUTCD purist gag (case in point:  Exit 40 off I-85 Southbound--SC 153/Easley--had the number 40 with a raised "0", looking like it was saying EXIT 4 DEGREES)
3.  STOP AHEAD signs with the larger "STOP" wording (am I the only one who remembers these??  Even the SC DOT had no idea what I was talking about!!!)
Anti-center-tabbing, anti-sequential-numbering, anti-Clearview BGS FAN

hbelkins

US 301's split into suffixed routes.

US 31E and 31W entering Indiana.

US 460 entering Indiana and Illinois.

US 227.

I-81 having an unfinished gap at Wytheville.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

NE2

Quote from: hbelkins on August 18, 2013, 12:07:45 AM
US 301's split into suffixed routes.
Are you sure it was a suffixed split and not merely northbound and southbound on different alignments?
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

JustDrive

I-215 signed as Temp 15
The 7 and 11 freeways
The 5/91 interchange having left exits and entrances
The 126 east of Santa Paula being a two-lane road
101 having stoplights in downtown Santa Barbara
The unfinished ramps at the 118/23 interchange
17 being signed all the way to San Rafael
480's existence
Macy Street and Brooklyn Avenue in Los Angeles
Santa Barbara Avenue instead of MLK Blvd
Parkway Calabasas being signed as "Craftsman Road" on the 101
Johnson Drive in Ventura being signed as "Sherwin Avenue" on the 101
Getty Center Drive being signed as "Chalon Road" on the 405
The Waterford Street off and onramps on the 405 in Brentwood
125 in La Mesa being a glorified transition road.
905 signed as 117

And my favorite:

The NB 170 ramp to NB 5 was a left entrance.

roadman65

I-95 in North Carolina being incomplete around Fayetteville where US 301 was the main road.
I-95 between Gold Rock and Kenly being incompleted as well and US 301 again filling the temporary gap.

Waiting in traffic to cross the then two lane Eugene Talmage Bridge in Savanah, GA because I-95 was not built from Hardeeville, SC to I-16 at Pooler.
I-95 also not being completed around Brunswick, GA and from Emporia, VA to just south of Petersburg.   The former used two lane GA 303, while at least the latter had four laned US 301 with only one stoplight at Stoney Creek.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

NE2

Quote from: roadman65 on August 18, 2013, 01:12:19 AM
I-95 also not being completed around Brunswick, GA and from Emporia, VA to just south of Petersburg.   The former used two lane GA 303, while at least the latter had four laned US 301 with only one stoplight at Stoney Creek.

Michael Summa, 1973, from http://www.usends.com/Focus/BrunswickGA/index.html
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

briantroutman

I think the OP is looking for items a little older than the some of the '80s-'90s stuff that's being mentioned. (And I realize that some of the other items are older, too.)

So in that spirit, I'm to young to remember any of this but...

Pennsylvania was noted for its leading-edge highways
Almost any service plaza on any toll road had the same food choice: Howard Johnson's
Service plazas had on-duty mechanics that did repairs
The "quick route" westward from NYC involved taking the NJ Turnpike to the PA Turnpike
Maps had more dashed lines labeled "proposed" than actual open freeways
Highways that would be underway in a "just a few years" included LOMEX, the Cobbs Creek Expressway, and I-266
I-95 wasn't complete through New Jersey...

roadman65

Quote from: NE2 on August 18, 2013, 01:35:25 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on August 18, 2013, 01:12:19 AM
I-95 also not being completed around Brunswick, GA and from Emporia, VA to just south of Petersburg.   The former used two lane GA 303, while at least the latter had four laned US 301 with only one stoplight at Stoney Creek.

Michael Summa, 1973, from http://www.usends.com/Focus/BrunswickGA/index.html
That is another thing that I forgot.  US 82 used to be US 84 east of Waycross, GA and of course US 84 east of there was US 82.  And yes, I remember these signs.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

Mapmikey

Quote from: OracleUsr on August 17, 2013, 11:35:01 PM
From NC:

1.  When they had rudimentary Variable Speed Limit signs in the Smokies (said either "SPEED LIMIT 55" or "SPEED LIMIT 35 FOG"

2.  Green tabs on auxiliary signs in Asheville

3.  8" signals in High Point with elongated yellow lamp hoods.

4.  Double ground-mounted BGS' (one on each side of the road in advance of left exits).

5.  When I-40's exits remained unnumbered in large chunks in the mid-west and western part of the state, even through the late 80's.

6.  When "Fines Creek" used to be a word salad (I think it used to say Fines Creek/Great Smoky Mountains Nat'l Park)...or "Harmon Den" saying "Harmon Den/Game Refuge"

From South Carolina:

1.  Final BGS' saying "NEXT RIGHT" instead of having an arrow.
2.  Gore signs of such weird designs that would make a MUTCD purist gag (case in point:  Exit 40 off I-85 Southbound--SC 153/Easley--had the number 40 with a raised "0", looking like it was saying EXIT 4 DEGREES)
3.  STOP AHEAD signs with the larger "STOP" wording (am I the only one who remembers these??  Even the SC DOT had no idea what I was talking about!!!)

From NC/SC

In NC they used to have "When Wet" advisory speeds on curves.  This was very widespread in eastern NC in the 70s.  I did see a couple of these on NC 24 west of Roseboro this summer which were the first ones of these I can recall seeing in a very long time.

In NC the speed limit signs on primary routes were in tall rectangles that read "SPEED LIMIT" 55 "TRUCKS" xx.  I am fuzzy on whether LIMIT was below SPEED on the rectangle.  These were mostly gone by 1980.  I can't recall any primary highway having a different truck limit but a couple secondary roads did.  My guess is that these signs were old enough that the car number used to be higher than 55 while trucks were at 55.

When most 3-digit us routes in NC were in square shields.

Hardees World at I-95 exit 71 which we stopped at all the time in the 70s.  There were 2 other locations: I-95 at NC 903 and I-95 exit 8 in SC.  These were Hardees restaurants attached to gas stations and had an arcade and gift shop.

In SC they used to have bold stencil dates on the backs of all signs.  They stopped doing this in the late 1980s and oldest one I ever saw was dated 1968.

In SC they used to have their secondary markers as black lettering on white background.  Only a couple examples made it to the 1980s.

When the north half of the Myrtle Beach bypass was SC 317.

When the Myrtle Beach bypass was a functional high-speed bypass with no stoplights. 

Mapmikey

US81

I remember long sections of I-35 and I-35W that had not been upgraded to full freeway status. They were divided highways with at-grade crossovers rather than exits. (A segment like this still exists where TX 81 leaves I-35 south of Hillsboro, TX.) 
I remember two-way access/service/frontage roads (which still exist in very rural areas).
I remember when left exits were not uncommon.
I remember when roads followed the terrain.
I remember more low-water crossings, truss bridges, draw-bridges and ferries and fewer high-rise bridges.
I remember when roads were allowed to intersect at acute/obtuse angles, and when it was fairly common to encounter intersections with blinking yellow/blinking red lights (I loved doghouses).
I remember when many Texas towns were bisected by railroads with no crossings that were not at-grade. If there were a train collision or malfunction, there might be no way to drive from one side of town to the other.
I remember when cloverleaf intersections were the updated improvement rather than the obsolete remnant of old construction.

leroys73

I remember when Ohio State route 74 was the best way to go from Williamsburg, Ohio in Clermont County to Cincinnati. It joined up with Columbia Parkway/US50. 74 was resigned State Route 32 and then for the most part completely realigned around many small towns to be called the John A. Rhodes Appalachian Highway. I remember talk of this highway back in the early 50's. 
'73 Vette, '72 Monte Carlo, ;11 Green with Envy Challenger R/T,Ram, RoyalStarVenture S,USA Honda VTX1300R ridden 49states &11provinces,Driven cars in50 states+DC&21countries,OverseasBrats;IronButt:MileEatersilver,SS1000Gold,SS3000,3xSS2000,18xSS1000, 3TX1000,6BB1500,NPT,LakeSuperiorCircleTour

1995hoo

I remember the parallel routes named "George Washington Memorial Parkway" on either side of the Potomac in Virginia and Maryland/DC, a legacy of a long-scuppered plan to connect them by a bridge up at Great Falls. People were endlessly getting lost because they couldn't figure out which was which. Maryland/DC's part was renamed for Clara Barton. I thought the original proposal for "Martha Washington Parkway" made more sense.

I remember when US-29 in Virginia's only bypass route was the one in the Charlottesville area. You had to crawl through Warrenton and Culpeper stopping at a bunch of red lights. It was faster to take the rural two-lane VA-229 through Rixeyville because it eliminated some of the Culpeper portion even though it was out of the way.

I-66 had an isolated segment out near Marshall for many years unconnected to the rest of the route at either end. It was something like 15 years before it connected to any other piece. When the outside-the-Beltway part of I-66 was finally finished in 1980, there was a BGS at Gainesville bragging that I-66 now connected to I-81. The odd design of the Gainesville interchange is a legacy of when you got dumped onto US-29 there.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Mapmikey

Quote from: 1995hoo on August 18, 2013, 12:01:31 PM

I remember when US-29 in Virginia's only bypass route was the one in the Charlottesville area. You had to crawl through Warrenton and Culpeper stopping at a bunch of red lights. It was faster to take the rural two-lane VA-229 through Rixeyville because it eliminated some of the Culpeper portion even though it was out of the way.



There were 7 US 29 bypasses already in place by 1973...(unless you are not really 40!) :)

xonhulu

Things I'm old enough to remember:
- running into a lot of incomplete sections of interstates on our family trips in the 70's.  I can specifically remember I-84 in eastern Oregon, south-central Idaho, and northern Utah; and I-90 in northern Idaho and crossing the Missouri in South Dakota.  Probably a few others that escape me now.
- US 99, 99W, and 99E still existed, at least in Oregon.
- Harbor Drive in Portland was still in use
- when the Fremont Bridge (I-405) in Portland was being built
- I-80N and I-15W in OR and ID

agentsteel53

apart from all the signs made to older standards, including the occasional cutout US route marker, the thing I remember the most that isn't around anymore is Boston's Central Artery: I-93. 

also, in the early 90s, they got rid of two huge oil storage tanks - one of which said Bostongas and one of which was painted with rainbow stripes - from just beside the south end of the Artery.
live from sunny San Diego.

http://shields.aaroads.com

jake@aaroads.com

NE2

Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 18, 2013, 06:53:00 PM
apart from all the signs made to older standards, including the occasional cutout US route marker, the thing I remember the most that isn't around anymore is Boston's Central Artery: I-93. 
Shit, I guess I'm too old.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

The High Plains Traveler

I absorbed a lot of road details long before I could drive. From California:

- black regulatory and guide signs
- butterfly exit signs on freeways
- double lines were white
- bear spade state route markers
- ACSC installed signs were still common
- deep in the recesses of my memory I remember seeing a few semaphore signals

Other States:
- mostly I remember that center stripes had a constant white broken line with solid yellow lines on one or both sides to mark no-passing zones
"Tongue-tied and twisted; just an earth-bound misfit, I."



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