Decline of Big Box Stores

[DandyDan]

When Best Buy first came to Lexington, Ky., they had a huge CD section. They carried tons of imports and other stuff you couldn't commonly find. I loved it.

Now they don't have much more than what you can find in Walmart.

But Walmart still only carries the edited version of whatever CD you're looking for, while Best Buy does not.  Not that I see too many people buying CD's at either place.

[Brandon]

When Best Buy first came to Lexington, Ky., they had a huge CD section. They carried tons of imports and other stuff you couldn't commonly find. I loved it.

Now they don't have much more than what you can find in Walmart.

But Walmart still only carries the edited version of whatever CD you're looking for, while Best Buy does not.  Not that I see too many people buying CD's at either place.

I usually wind up at Disc Replay (regional CD/DVD/game resale store - even sells vinyl) for CDs.  Better selection than Walmart, and I might just find it cheaper.  I haven't been to the local BB in years.  I'd rather go over to HD, Sears, Menards, or HH Gregg for appliances.

[Scott5114]

Diminished CD selection at both stores has little to do with the state of retail, but rather that most people don't buy physical CDs anymore. Heck, some people don't buy entire albums anymore, just tracks 2, 3, 7, and 11 (or whatever).

[Laura]

Diminished CD selection at both stores has little to do with the state of retail, but rather that most people don't buy physical CDs anymore. Heck, some people don't buy entire albums anymore, just tracks 2, 3, 7, and 11 (or whatever).

The only time in recent music history where buying singles WASN'T popular was in the 1990's. People bought and traded singles all the time on 45 records up until cassette tapes took over in the 1980's. I can't find the exact source at the moment*, but apparently around 1988 or so record companies phased out singles because they knew they could earn more money from getting people to buy the whole album, hence the money making racket of the 1990's. It was almost impossible to find CD singles during that decade, and even those were highway robbery because they'd add a bunch of remixes of the same song onto them and increase the price.

Everyone thinks of Napster ruining the music industry, but Napster was merely the reaction from the elimination of the single format. RIAA dug their own grave by getting rid of singles. The mindset of downloaders: I only want the hit song, and I'm not paying $10-$15 for it, so I'll download it for free. Apple was no dummy, and made a smart decision to get into the business of selling singles, which is what the people wanted all along. I have no problem paying for each song that I want at $1.29 because it's a fair price compared to paying $10 for one song plus nine others that I don't want.

When I can, I still like to buy physical CDs because I can hypothetically import them as many times on as many computers as I want (and it's easier than transferring the music from vinyl to iTunes, which I've also done). Plus, since demand has gone down, I can often get them cheaper than if I were to just buy and download the music from Amazon or iTunes. Even better if I can find them at a yard sale for a buck each

*I believe the article I read was from Steve Knopper of Rolling Stone, who eventually incorporated that theory into his book An Appetite for Self Destruction: http://www.amazon.com/Appetite-Self-Destruction-Spectacular-Industry-Digital/dp/1593762690/ref=la_B001JS3L4O_1_1/178-6189919-5334169?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1408737048&sr=1-1

[Stephane Dumas]

I spotted one more article from the City-Data forums
http://www.city-data.com/forum/politics-other-controversies/2187117-news-walmart-going-very-dark-place.html
a CNN article titled "Wal-mart: going to a very dark place".
http://money.cnn.com/2014/07/30/news/companies/goldman-walmart-downgrade/index.html?hpt=hp_bn6&iid=obnetwork

Walmart may not go the way of RadioShack (RSH) any time soon. But Goldman Sachs says that customers are abandoning the big-box pioneer in droves.

[hm insulators]

Kmart and Sears will both probably be gone in their current configurations by 2017.  In the (still open) Kmarts that I know of, not one of them has been remodeled on the inside or outside and Sears has barely gotten facelifts (due to new logos and cashier relocations).

It used to be that a Sears parking lot on a weekend would be teeming with cars, especially near the entrances closest to the hardware / auto departments.  On a recent Saturday morning, I passed by a Sears, and could count the number of cars parked by those entrances on my two hands.  My town just added a Sears Outlet store this spring, despite the Sears and Kmarts being ghost towns.  I'm still waiting to see which of the two older stores close first.

I always thought Sears Outlet was just a fancy name for Kmart!

The last time I saw the inside of a Kmart was one Saturday night a few weeks ago. I was at a classic car show in the parking lot and went inside to use the restroom. The store was grungy and there were very few customers--you could've fired a cannon through the place and not hit anybody.

[DandyDan]

The last time I saw the inside of a Kmart was one Saturday night a few weeks ago. I was at a classic car show in the parking lot and went inside to use the restroom. The store was grungy and there were very few customers--you could've fired a cannon through the place and not hit anybody.

KMart parking lots must be popular places for classic car shows.  I went to the KMart in the Millard area of Omaha a few weeks ago, out of morbid curiousity, and they had one going on there.  Inside, I think I saw more employees than customers.  Then again, it was about 8pm, and I have no idea how busy it gets during the day, but I suspect it's not much busier.  The grocery stores on both sides of KMart had many more customers, FWIW.

[Roadrunner75]

Inside, I think I saw more employees than customers. 

Until it was time to check out - then suddenly there is a bunch of customers and only one employee to run the register, as is typical at KMart.

[bing101]

www.npr.org/2014/09/10/347132924/heres-whats-becoming-of-americas-dead-shopping-malls

Another article on the decline of the shopping mall and to a certain extent Big Box Stores.

[Brandon]

www.npr.org/2014/09/10/347132924/heres-whats-becoming-of-americas-dead-shopping-malls

Another article on the decline of the shopping mall and to a certain extent Big Box Stores.

Yet, some malls and stores were always hurting.  Hell, Montgomery Ward was hurting for decades (even when it was in downtowns).  I believe the death of the mall and the big box is overstated and much premature.  As for the article's comment about millennials and suburbs versus the city, it's a load of horse manure.  But, even then, big boxes and malls can be found there (along with overbuilt and dying stuff).

[kkt]

How big a box does it have to be in order to be a Big Box?  I shop in Target every couple of months.

Is Amazon a big box?  It certainly has big boxes, even if they're out of sight.

[Brandon]

How big a box does it have to be in order to be a Big Box?  I shop in Target every couple of months.

Is Amazon a big box?  It certainly has big boxes, even if they're out of sight.

Good questions.  Even the department stores of old (Field's, Macy's, Hudson's, etc) were big boxes, some of which were stores of 1,000,000+ SF.

I'd say 30,000 SF or so is a good break point for what constitutes a "big box".  I'd also say a "big box" store must have a brick-and-mortar retail presence (which Amazon seems to lack at this point).  However, the term "big box" is merely, IMHO, meant to be derisive.  I'd rather call them what they are, department store (Target), grocer (Jewel-Osco), hypermarket (Meijer), home-improvement store (Menards), etc, etc.  Amazon is basically a catalog merchant, some of which last a long time, and some of which don't.

I'd also say that all retailers (including Amazon) have an arc.  They grow, increase sales, increase business, and become big.  They then have their day in the sun as big, evil to some, corporations (Walmart).  Then they lose their focus, lose their customer service and customer base, wither (Sears, K Mart), and maybe die (Montgomery Ward).  If they regain their focus, they can continue to ride this roller coaster (JCPenney).

[Laura]

How big a box does it have to be in order to be a Big Box?  I shop in Target every couple of months.

Is Amazon a big box?  It certainly has big boxes, even if they're out of sight.

Good questions.  Even the department stores of old (Field's, Macy's, Hudson's, etc) were big boxes, some of which were stores of 1,000,000+ SF.

I'd say 30,000 SF or so is a good break point for what constitutes a "big box".  I'd also say a "big box" store must have a brick-and-mortar retail presence (which Amazon seems to lack at this point).  However, the term "big box" is merely, IMHO, meant to be derisive.  I'd rather call them what they are, department store (Target), grocer (Jewel-Osco), hypermarket (Meijer), home-improvement store (Menards), etc, etc.  Amazon is basically a catalog merchant, some of which last a long time, and some of which don't.

I'd also say that all retailers (including Amazon) have an arc.  They grow, increase sales, increase business, and become big.  They then have their day in the sun as big, evil to some, corporations (Walmart).  Then they lose their focus, lose their customer service and customer base, wither (Sears, K Mart), and maybe die (Montgomery Ward).  If they regain their focus, they can continue to ride this roller coaster (JCPenney).

I've always considered big box stores to have only one giant floor. Department stores are usually multiple floors (although occasionally one story if connected to a small mall).

[GCrites]

One thing that is affecting retail of many types is lack of stuff to sell. The computer, internet and the smartphone really wiped out people's need for separate devices and objects to handle daily tasks. I saw a picture once that declared "Almost every item on this Radio Shack flyer from 1988 can be replaced by your smartphone" There were 20 items ranging from radios to calculators to organizers to house phones to those little LCD games to clocks. The only thing that hadn't been replaced by the phone was an R/C car.

[bing101]

How big a box does it have to be in order to be a Big Box?  I shop in Target every couple of months.

Is Amazon a big box?  It certainly has big boxes, even if they're out of sight.

Well Ebay could be in some ways a big box? as far as I know Amazon and Ebay was one of the earliest e-shopping sites for 20 years when the dot-com boom was in its earliest stages.

[The Nature Boy]

How big a box does it have to be in order to be a Big Box?  I shop in Target every couple of months.

Is Amazon a big box?  It certainly has big boxes, even if they're out of sight.

Well Ebay could be in some ways a big box? as far as I know Amazon and Ebay was one of the earliest e-shopping sites for 20 years when the dot-com boom was in its earliest stages.

Ebay doesn't actually sell anything though. It's more like a 24-hour auction hall.

[bing101]

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/09/12/alibaba-to-close-order-books-early-and-may-lift-price-of-i-p-o/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

Alibaba is being talked about as the next Big Box, Amazon or Ebay take your pick on this.

[Roadrunner75]

I'd say 30,000 SF or so is a good break point for what constitutes a "big box".  I'd also say a "big box" store must have a brick-and-mortar retail presence (which Amazon seems to lack at this point).  However, the term "big box" is merely, IMHO, meant to be derisive.  I'd rather call them what they are, department store (Target), grocer (Jewel-Osco), hypermarket (Meijer), home-improvement store (Menards), etc, etc.  Amazon is basically a catalog merchant, some of which last a long time, and some of which don't.

When I think of the term 'hypermarket' I think of the chain "Carrefour" that we had briefly in the Philadelphia area maybe 20+ years ago.  At the time, the biggest box stores around were stuff like KMart and there were no food/department store combinations.  I went in once or twice and couldn't believe how big it was.  I think they used 'hypermarket' in their marketing.  They didn't last long however, and a quick check of Wikipedia tells me they're all over the world, but gone from the US.

In NJ at least, Walmart Supercenters that have food are just entering the market.  Not long ago, there was only one that I knew of, and they're now ramping up with a new one near me and some other standard Walmarts being renovated to add the grocery section.

[Brandon]

I'd say 30,000 SF or so is a good break point for what constitutes a "big box".  I'd also say a "big box" store must have a brick-and-mortar retail presence (which Amazon seems to lack at this point).  However, the term "big box" is merely, IMHO, meant to be derisive.  I'd rather call them what they are, department store (Target), grocer (Jewel-Osco), hypermarket (Meijer), home-improvement store (Menards), etc, etc.  Amazon is basically a catalog merchant, some of which last a long time, and some of which don't.

When I think of the term 'hypermarket' I think of the chain "Carrefour" that we had briefly in the Philadelphia area maybe 20+ years ago.  At the time, the biggest box stores around were stuff like KMart and there were no food/department store combinations.  I went in once or twice and couldn't believe how big it was.  I think they used 'hypermarket' in their marketing.  They didn't last long however, and a quick check of Wikipedia tells me they're all over the world, but gone from the US.

In NJ at least, Walmart Supercenters that have food are just entering the market.  Not long ago, there was only one that I knew of, and they're now ramping up with a new one near me and some other standard Walmarts being renovated to add the grocery section.

By comparison, Michigan has had Meijer as a hypermarket chain since 1962.  They started as a grocer (in 1934) and added a huge general merchandise section.  Carrefour did not start building hypermarkets until 1963.

[bing101]

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/temples-american-commerce-indoor-malls-lose-shoppers-e-stores/


PBS Newshour does a story about malls in some cities that are abandoned.