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Dulles International Airport struggles to find its footing

Started by cpzilliacus, November 27, 2014, 09:03:03 PM

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cpzilliacus

Washington Post: Dulles International Airport struggles to find its footing

QuoteBlame Congress. Blame the airline industry. Blame sequestration. But Washington Dulles International Airport is in trouble. The most alarming evidence: Sometime next year, more passengers will travel through Reagan National Airport than Dulles – an airport 14 times National's size.

QuoteFor Virginia leaders, as well as the agency that manages both airports, it is a deeply troubling development. Should National continue to outpace its larger neighbor, it could have serious financial and safety implications for the entire region, they say.

QuoteA recent study found that Dulles generated more than $1.2 billion in tax revenue and nearly $10 billion in labor income. More than 19,000 people work at Dulles, but nearly 250,000 jobs are tied to the airport, according to the study, commissioned by the Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority.

Quote"The shift to National – it's a serious problem for the financial viability of Dulles,"  said Jonathan Gifford, director of the Center for Transportation Public-Private Partnership Policy at George Mason University.

QuoteThe MWAA needs both airports to succeed for its bottom line, but in its version of a perfect world, Dulles would be booming. Instead, the explosive growth at National is creating headaches for the authority. From a steep rise in noise complaints from nearby Arlington County residents to concourses so crowded that passengers say they feel like sardines, authority officials are scrambling to find more space at a facility that has little to spare.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.


jeffandnicole

There's really 3 airports: Dulles, Reagan, and BWI, roughly about in the same area as JFK, LaGuardia and Newark, but without the population, visitor base and international destination options. Having said that, all 3 airports do very well. Personally, I don't think the airport is as in much danger as the report states, and the forthcoming Metro line should push passenger volumes up.

Brandon

Distance might have something to do with it.  It's much father to Dulles from DC than it is from the Loop to O'Hare.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton, "Game of Thrones"

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg, "Monty Python's Life of Brian"

triplemultiplex

If the area can't support 3 airports, then close National.  That's a waste of premium, waterfront land right in town in Arlington with all the noise and junk.
Dulles has its own freeway spur, it's far from the densely populated areas, it has room for hypothetical expansion in the future; the perfect place for an airport.  Just hook it up to Metro.  Then that distance from The Mall shrinks considerably.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

kendancy66

Change the airport name from Reagan to Obama, and the Republicans will stop using it :)

NJRoadfan

Reagan National is booming strictly because of its convenience. Until the Silver Line, it had better mass transit connections and still is easier to get to from DC proper (just over the Potomac!). Dulles seems far away in comparison.... well except if you live in that part of Virginia.

What is the percentage of inter-city (Boston, NYC, etc) commuter flights in/out of Dulles vs. Reagan?

oscar

Don't forget that our Congresscritters love Reagan National for its proximity to Capitol Hill, which helps out with the quick getaways they are so fond of.  Their meddling in airport operations includes allowing some trans-continental 737 flights to and from Reagan National rather than limiting it to short-haul flights.  For example, I've always figured the daily Alaska Airlines non-stop service to Seattle, with connections (and formerly continuing direct service, with no change of plane) to Anchorage, is in large part the doing of the Alaska and Washington state congressional delegations.
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
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cpzilliacus

Quote from: oscar on November 29, 2014, 05:09:39 PM
Don't forget that our Congresscritters love Reagan National for its proximity to Capitol Hill, which helps out with the quick getaways they are so fond of.  Their meddling in airport operations includes allowing some trans-continental 737 flights to and from Reagan National rather than limiting it to short-haul flights.

Bingo.   
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

Duke87

Hey, Relax Dulles. You've got a long way to fall before you're Mirabel. :P

The article does use one phrase, however, which is telling:
Quotea general decline in domestic passenger traffic

This is not just federal sequestration. It's also the corporate world. Why spend money to send people to one place for a meeting when you can just video conference instead? Technology has made a lot of long distance business trips unnecessary.

Although I do wonder if personal travel hasn't also taken a significant hit. Given the finances of the average American, people are taking fewer and less expensive vacations. Given the aging of the baby boomer generation, demographics have moved a greater percentage of people out of the age range that typically feels up to flying or traveling long distance.

And then you have the drama over bag fees, the making of legroom into a premium product, the ever-draconian TSA... between all these things flying is just too unpleasant an experience to be worth it, and people are turning away from it. My father had for a while intended that we would fly out for a KC and STL trip we have planned. Earlier this year he decided "you know what, fuck the airline industry, we'll drive there". I can't imagine others have not reached similar conclusions.


So realistically I think the problem is bigger than Dulles. Really there are two broad problems:
1) that the airline industry has become monopolistic and is lacking in competition and proper regulation.
2) that there is natural contraction in the market for air travel on account of technology and other external factors

Problem 1 would be solvable if our government had the will to, but they created this situation intentionally with deregulation so fat chance of that. Problem 2 isn't solvable, and is simply a change that must be adapted to.
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

oscar

Another short-term factor, rather than the start of a worrisome trend, is that some airlines like Southwest and JetBlue have shifted some flights from Dulles to Reagan National, using gates that American had to spit out as a condition of its acquisition of US Airways.  One unfortunate effect is that JetBlue has dropped its Dulles-Long Beach and Dulles-Oakland nonstop service, consolidating its cross-country routes so you have to fly northeast from Washington to New York or Boston to connect to the remaining nonstop flights to California, and relegating Dulles to a feeder airport for JetBlue.  That kind of kills off my interest in flying JetBlue to the better-located Long Beach or Oakland airports, though if I wanted to try a non-legacy carrier for Dulles-LAX or -SFO nonstop I could give Virgin a try.

While Dulles is less convenient than Reagan National for people in the D.C. core area (including where I live in Arlington), there are a lot of businesses and homes in Fairfax and Loudoun counties in Virginia, for which Dulles is most convenient.  That gives Dulles something to work from, for domestic flights.
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
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jwolfer

Quote from: Duke87 on November 29, 2014, 07:42:19 PM
Hey, Relax Dulles. You've got a long way to fall before you're Mirabel. :P

The article does use one phrase, however, which is telling:
Quotea general decline in domestic passenger traffic

This is not just federal sequestration. It's also the corporate world. Why spend money to send people to one place for a meeting when you can just video conference instead? Technology has made a lot of long distance business trips unnecessary.

Although I do wonder if personal travel hasn't also taken a significant hit. Given the finances of the average American, people are taking fewer and less expensive vacations. Given the aging of the baby boomer generation, demographics have moved a greater percentage of people out of the age range that typically feels up to flying or traveling long distance.

And then you have the drama over bag fees, the making of legroom into a premium product, the ever-draconian TSA... between all these things flying is just too unpleasant an experience to be worth it, and people are turning away from it. My father had for a while intended that we would fly out for a KC and STL trip we have planned. Earlier this year he decided "you know what, fuck the airline industry, we'll drive there". I can't imagine others have not reached similar conclusions.


So realistically I think the problem is bigger than Dulles. Really there are two broad problems:
1) that the airline industry has become monopolistic and is lacking in competition and proper regulation.
2) that there is natural contraction in the market for air travel on account of technology and other external factors

Problem 1 would be solvable if our government had the will to, but they created this situation intentionally with deregulation so fat chance of that. Problem 2 isn't solvable, and is simply a change that must be adapted to.
You are right about the security effecting airline travel. I flew to Atlanta from Jacksonville for a conference. When you factor in getting to the airport early for screening, Waiting on tarmack,  walking through terminal, getting rental car or transportation. Its a 3 hour process. You can drive in 4-5 hours and not be beholden to airline schedules.

After the conference ended at 12 noon Sunday we had to wait for a 4pm flight. We could have driven home instead of killing time for 3.5 hours

formulanone

#11
The traffic to get to DC from Dulles is probably one of the biggest reasons it's declining somewhat.

I'm going to guess that the near-monopoly of United (and Star Alliance partners) doesn't help pricing. That can be common at most airline hubs.

DCA was a focus city for US Airways, who was a former Star Alliance partner, until it became part of American Airlines (a OneWorld member). So it's also possible that some code-shared flights between UA and US don't exist anymore, which offsets the slight decrease in traffic to Reagan National through the AA/US merger. I'm sure the loss of a few AA gates at DCA are made up by a few more aircraft with slightly larger passenger capacities.

If the drive is 7 hours or less, I don't fly for business. The exception is for icy/snowy conditions. I'll take my chances with airports and rental cars at that point, unless it's still under 400 miles.

mtantillo

Also, for being United's main east coast hub, the United terminal at Dulles is AWFUL...and it is a long walk from the train. The other terminal is much nicer.

realjd

Quote from: triplemultiplex on November 28, 2014, 03:41:27 PM
If the area can't support 3 airports, then close National.  That's a waste of premium, waterfront land right in town in Arlington with all the noise and junk.
Dulles has its own freeway spur, it's far from the densely populated areas, it has room for hypothetical expansion in the future; the perfect place for an airport.  Just hook it up to Metro.  Then that distance from The Mall shrinks considerably.

Fuck that. I don't care about a freeway spur; I want easy metro access into the city. Even when the Silver Line opens, it's still going to be a long ride into town. The only reason to ever fly in/out of IAD is for international flights.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: mtantillo on December 03, 2014, 08:53:57 PM
Also, for being United's main east coast hub, the United terminal at Dulles is AWFUL...and it is a long walk from the train. The other terminal is much nicer.

That's the one that's behind the two big "midfield terminals," as MWAA calls them?
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

Fred Defender

Quote from: kendancy66 on November 28, 2014, 09:20:05 PM
Change the airport name from Reagan to Obama, and the Republicans will stop using it :)

Good point. Then only those evil, rich capitalists will have to pay to fly. Everyone else would be subsidized.
AGAM

OCGuy81

QuoteIf the area can't support 3 airports, then close National.  That's a waste of premium, waterfront land right in town in Arlington with all the noise and junk.
Dulles has its own freeway spur, it's far from the densely populated areas, it has room for hypothetical expansion in the future; the perfect place for an airport.  Just hook it up to Metro.  Then that distance from The Mall shrinks considerably.

I agree. Plus, IIRC National has a lot of restrictions (flight paths, times flights can fly out, noise abatement) that Dulles doesn't. 

PHLBOS

Quote from: OCGuy81 on December 12, 2014, 05:00:13 PMPlus, IIRC National has a lot of restrictions (flight paths, times flights can fly out, noise abatement) that Dulles doesn't.
To the best of my knowledge, DCA is both a slot and perimeter-restricted* airport similar to NY's LaGuardia airport (LGA).  The original mission for IAD was to handle the flights that DCA (w/its restrictions) could not; mainly long-distance (i.e. transcontinental) and international routes.

*congressional exceptions were made to allow certain routes beyond DCA's perimeter restriction.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

oscar

Quote from: triplemultiplex on November 28, 2014, 03:41:27 PM
the perfect place for an airport.  Just hook it up to Metro.  Then that distance from The Mall shrinks considerably.

Even when Metro's Silver Line reaches Dulles, it will be about two dozen stops away from the Mall, making for a slow slog out there.  Metrorail has no express lines (or provision to create them), with only two tracks for most of the system, so trains out to Dulles would have to stop at several stops within D.C., and every stop in Arlington and Tysons Corner, as well as several more stops in the Reston area.

Commuter rail with fewer stops is available in some corridors.  But the tracks that used to run past the Dulles area have long ago been ripped out and turned into a popular bike trail.
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
http://www.alaskaroads.com/home.html

cpzilliacus

Quote from: oscar on December 14, 2014, 07:01:56 PM
Quote from: triplemultiplex on November 28, 2014, 03:41:27 PM
the perfect place for an airport.  Just hook it up to Metro.  Then that distance from The Mall shrinks considerably.

Even when Metro's Silver Line reaches Dulles, it will be about two dozen stops away from the Mall, making for a slow slog out there.  Metrorail has no express lines (or provision to create them), with only two tracks for most of the system, so trains out to Dulles would have to stop at several stops within D.C., and every stop in Arlington and Tysons Corner, as well as several more stops in the Reston area.

Commuter rail with fewer stops is available in some corridors.  But the tracks that used to run past the Dulles area have long ago been ripped out and turned into a popular bike trail.

Though it is ironic that much of the building materials for the original airport (opened 1962) were actually transported to the site of the airport on that railroad (mostly a single-track line), the Washington and Old Dominion (W&OD), which ceased operations later in the 1960's.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.



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