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[ShawnP]

POS design is what I call it. My theory is if your going to build it then build it right and build it to last 40 years on new construction and 15 on repaving projects. Anything less is just a waste of taxpayers money.

[Revive 755]

Traffic on I-64 in Missouri has increased by a decent amount since it reopened, compared to the 2007 volumes:
http://interact.stltoday.com/discussions/news/road-crew/LD0420101086/9 (scroll to bottom of page)

[ShawnP]

Well the road itself is better now than I-70 and when I go thru ST. Louis a quicker route than going around.

[Revive 755]

From attempting to calculate the best way for various movements through the St. Louis area, the only Missouri to Illinois through interstate movement that sees any mileage savings from using the beltway appears to be I-70 to I-70.  From the I-64 interchange at Wentzville to the I-55 interchange at Troy:
* 53 miles using I-270
* 53.5 miles if MO 370 is used to access I-270 (+/- 1 mile; can't recall the last quarter mile marker on MO 370)
* 56.5 miles if traffic stays on I-70 and uses I-170 to reach I-270.
* 61.25 staying on I-70
* 60.5 if I-64 is used on the Missouri side
* 58.25 if I-64 and MO 364 (when completed) are used to reach I-270 (assuming MO 364 is 20 miles long when finished)
* 63.25 if I-64, MO 364 (when completed), I-270, and I-64 are used on the Missouri side

The distances are also probably off since IDOT doesn't have a nice 1/4 mile marker map like MoDOT has:
http://www.modot.org/stlouis/links/docs/StL_Mile_Markers_204.pdf

When the Great Lemon Bridge for I-70 downtown is finished, the staying on I-70 route will see the distance reduced by 1.6 miles to 59.65.

The I-55 (MO) to I-64 (IL) movement is almost equal distance wise via the PSB or I-255, being only about 3/4 mile shorter via the PSB.

I'm not going to estimate travel times yet because
1) Difficulties in using the PSB, especially the I-55 ramps
2) Most drivers ignore the speed limits anyways
3) With regards to #2, Illinois generally seems to have heavier enforcement of speed limits.

[ShawnP]

I'll agree on 2 as I drive alot to the Louisville area and Illinois is heavier on Revunue Enhancement errrrrr enforcement of speed limits. I find I-64 quicker if you time it to avoid rush hour.

[Brandon]

I'll agree on 2 as I drive alot to the Louisville area and Illinois is heavier on Revunue Enhancement errrrrr enforcement of speed limits. I find I-64 quicker if you time it to avoid rush hour.

Downstate Illinois can be tough as far as speed patrol.  Up here, they're a lot more lax.

[Revive 755]

Some displays from the meeting for the new Daniel Boone Bridge are up on MoDOT's site:
http://www.modot.org/stlouis/major_projects/BooneBridgevirtualpublicmeeting.htm

Hopefully the concrete \_/ beam design will be chosen since funding rules out anything nicer.


Local TV news article on displeasure with the I-64 rebuild already being congested:
http://www.kmov.com/news/local/Drivers-say-no-improvement-in-traffic-jams-on-new-I-64-93355504.html

Personally, I have not had to use the new highway during a rush hour yet - and have been actively trying to avoid doing so, since using US 40 would also likely require using the just plain awful I-270, or the construction-impaired I-55 (the latter route has performed miserably in the afternoons since replacing the Union Road Bridge closed the left lane both directions, and has started backing up a tad before the true peak hour).  The lane drop at Skinker still seems to be troublesome from watching the area traffic web sites.

[J N Winkler]

Hopefully the concrete \_/ beam design will be chosen since funding rules out anything nicer.

Those are called "tub girders."

[Revive 755]

The westbound Blanchette Bridge (I-70 over the Missouri River) will likely close for a year for repairs:
http://www.kmov.com/news/local/MODOT-to-shut-down-part-of-Blanchette-Bridge-for-repairs-98284244.html

It looks like the closure will happen shortly after the semi-direct ramp for the NB I-270 to WB MO 364 movement opens.  I'm still curious as to which route will receive most of the diverted traffic - MO 370, which directly ties back into I-70, or MO 364, with only multiple stoplight options to return to I-70?

[froggie]

Could be that some of the traffic that would utilize MO 364 has a destination that doesn't require getting back to I-70.

[Revive 755]

Turns out MoDOT will not be completely closing WB I-70 at the Blanchette, per the project website:
http://www.modot.org/stlouis/major_projects/BlanchetteBridgerenovations.htm

I'm not sure a 3x3 would have less traffic impacts than completely detouring WB I-70 traffic to another bridge.

[Revive 755]

Found the EIS in the Northwestern Transportation Library for what is now the western double deck section of US 40 in St. Louis.  Turns out the as built design was a compromise - the MHTD originally wanted to go with both directions at grade (Alternative 1) over a double deck configuration (Alternative 3 - sounded like this alternative was going to have a longer double deck section than the Alt 1 - Alt 3 combo compromise.  Interestingly the EIS was for 'Traffic Relief 40'

[Stephane Dumas]

Rich Piehl on misc.transport.road mentionned then one-mile gap of MO-364 freeway opened
http://www.fox2now.com/news/ktvi-st-charles-highway-route-94-open-072710,0,2868709.story

[Revive 755]

Post-Dispatch has a gallery of images regarding the original Arch planning.  Image 8 appears to have an earlier plan for the downtown St. Louis freeway network, though too small to make out much detail, has a bridge with a cloverleaf on the Missouri side near either the site of the MLK Bridge or the new bridge currently under construction.  It also appears to have US 40 feeding into the MacArthur Bridge, and if the current I-55/I-70 route was to be built in Missouri, it was not going to have access to the MacArthur Bridge.

Image 9 has an early plan in which I-70 would have been tunneled under Memorial Drive.

http://stltoday.mycapture.com/mycapture/folder.asp?event=975632&CategoryID=38578&view=1

[Revive 755]

The city of St. Peters is trying to get funding for interchange improvements for the Mid Rivers Mall Drive interchange and MO 79 interchange:
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/stcharles/article_040fdc32-c81b-11df-8c48-00127992bc8b.html

I'm curious what more could be done with the Mid Rivers interchange since it's already a partial cloverleaf.

EDIT:  Both the MO 79 and Mid Rivers interchange are planned to become diverging diamonds, per the video on this page:
http://www.kmov.com/news/local/St-Charles-Co-and-St-Peters-considering-changes-along-I-70-103969734.html

Map of the Mid Rivers interchange and the start of the westbound C-D road from the Post-Dispatch website:
http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/stltoday.com/content/tncms/assets/editorial/b/ec/2a6/bec2a6d4-c81d-11df-8989-00127992bc8b-revisions/4c9d0fb951dfd.pdf.pdf

I would love to see some sort of traffic simulation video to justify modifying the Mid Rivers interchange over simply having I-70 access to the proposed C-D road west of the Mid Rivers overpass.  The whole idea seems like an admission that the I-70 reliever road from MO 370 at Spencer to MO 79 at Salt River is not going to draw enough traffic off to make a difference

EDIT2: Ok, I was mistaken on the MO 79 interchange; didn't see the partially covered loop the first time/

[Revive 755]

IDOT intends to add another loop to the I-64/IL 159 interchange, this one for the SB to EB movement  See
http://www.ewgateway.org/pdffiles/boardpackets/2010/boardpacket-October2010.pdf, Page 16/45.

[Revive 755]

Found an old thesis that has pictures of the original (1930's) US 40 freeway around Forest Park:

http://www.worldcat.org/title/express-highway-through-the-city-of-st-louis/oclc/621466816?title=&detail=&page=frame&url=http%3A%2F%2Fscholarsmine.mst.edu%2Fthesis%2Fpdf%2FCampbell_1937_09007dcc807ac958.pdf%26checksum%3Dba4b8f8ff63090a47a0fed6abd864254&linktype=digitalObject

(May require a couple more clicks to get to the actually document)

[Brandon]

^^ Excellent find with wonderful images of an early freeway.  There's no median or real paved shoulders yet, but the basic elements of grade separation and lack of traffic signals is there.

[Revive 755]

A little over a week ago I managed to access a copy of the 1959 A plan for the extension of Interstates Routes 55 and 70 in East St. Louis, Illinois.



I've edited the scan in an attempted to show how much the number of rail yards near the river has decreased.

Basically, it had been realized that the MLK Bridge was insufficient for interstate traffic.  Missouri had decided the location for the PSB, and Illinois was trying to design the connection from this bridge to I-55/70.  There is a brief discussion on what led to the choice of location for the PSB, but I've forgotten most of the details, and it was lacking or missing discussion of some options, such as twinning the MLK Bridge (then the Veterans Bridge), as an earlier study recommended doing eventually.

Alternate A shown on the scan above was not recommended due to costs of bridge the great number of railroad tracks then present.  I think Alternate B had an unshown portion that went east of the recommended location, so it was not recommended due to community impacts.

There was a great aerial photo in the book showing the then-planned design for the PSB approach in Illinois - which I don't have a copy of due to it being a fold out larger than the copier and copies costing 25 cents per page.  Basically the PSB was to be eight lanes.  There would have been a trumpet interchange with a connection to IL 3, with the SB I-55 to SB IL 3 movement being a loop.  The IL 3 connector also appeared to be closer to the parallel rail line than it was built.  I-55/70 went down to six lanes east of IL 3.  Next interchange was to be a half diamond (NB off, SB on) which IIRC was near the present ramps to Main and Fourth Streets.  I-55/70 went down to four lanes after this interchange.

The book also had some plans for four-laning existing IL 3 north of the I-55/70/64 interchange, completed with grade separations over many (all?) of the railroads north of First Street.

[kharvey10]

IDOT intends to add another loop to the I-64/IL 159 interchange, this one for the SB to EB movement  See
http://www.ewgateway.org/pdffiles/boardpackets/2010/boardpacket-October2010.pdf, Page 16/45.

That news to me, I never heard them even talk about that interchange since they put in the first loop.  I have a feeling the owners of St. Clair Square trying to do a little sweet-talking to them about making that left turn lane going into that shopping center longer.  I never use that left turn lane for that certain intersection called Market Place cause it takes at least 2 light cycles to enter the mall, I usually stick to the next signal or use Highway 50 to enter the mall.

IDiOT has been keeping their so called plans for 270 at the Chain of Rocks under wraps, and I have a awful feeling that its going to take another 8/10/1994 to make them to wake up and face the music.  IDiOT has done little to improve 270 up there since they built it between 1964-1966 and supposedly MoDOT is planning another study in that area.

[Revive 755]

IDiOT has been keeping their so called plans for 270 at the Chain of Rocks under wraps, and I have a awful feeling that its going to take another 8/10/1994 to make them to wake up and face the music.  IDiOT has done little to improve 270 up there since they built it between 1964-1966 and supposedly MoDOT is planning another study in that area.

I have an unconfirmed feeling that the next MoDOT I-270 feeling will be looking more at how to add truck only lanes along the northern half, instead of adding another general purpose lane or fixing the outer roads.

[kharvey10]

IDiOT has been keeping their so called plans for 270 at the Chain of Rocks under wraps, and I have a awful feeling that its going to take another 8/10/1994 to make them to wake up and face the music.  IDiOT has done little to improve 270 up there since they built it between 1964-1966 and supposedly MoDOT is planning another study in that area.

I have an unconfirmed feeling that the next MoDOT I-270 feeling will be looking more at how to add truck only lanes along the northern half, instead of adding another general purpose lane or fixing the outer roads.

Well the EW Gateway has this in their 2035 plan:
http://www.ewgateway.org/pdffiles/library/trans/legacy2035/Legacy2035-InvestmentPlanmapandindex.pdf

And this one was put online just in the past month:
http://expandingcapacity.transportation.org/states/MO_Unlocking_Gridlock_0410.pdf

[ShawnP]

I always thought improving I-270 at Chain of Rocks would be a better optition for Missouri and Illinois.

[Revive 755]

Recent Transportation Improvement Plan Changes from the E-W Gateway Website
http://www.ewgateway.org/pdffiles/boardpackets/2011/boardpacket-January2011.pdf

MoDOT

* Adding a temporary lane to the WB I-70 ramp to I-270 for the WB Blanchette Bridge closure

* Modify the MO 364 ramps to Muegge Road for the WB Blanchette Bridge closure

* Shoulder and pavement improvements for Routes D and DD in St. Charles County

* Shoulder and pavement improvements for Route P east of US 61 in St. Charles County

* A $200,000 study for I-270 from McDonnell Boulevard to MO 367

* Another study of the west end of the PSB - unless this is misnamed design work for replacing the I-55 ramps, this one is a total waste.  There was enough study during the initial development of the Great Lemon Bridge; the money for this study ought to go to extending the I-270 study a few more miles.

IDOT
* Modify the US 67/Clark Bridge intersection with IL 143

* Resurfacing a short section of IL 143 in Edwardsville

[kharvey10]

Recent Transportation Improvement Plan Changes from the E-W Gateway Website
http://www.ewgateway.org/pdffiles/boardpackets/2011/boardpacket-January2011.pdf

MoDOT

* Adding a temporary lane to the WB I-70 ramp to I-270 for the WB Blanchette Bridge closure

* Modify the MO 364 ramps to Muegge Road for the WB Blanchette Bridge closure

* Shoulder and pavement improvements for Routes D and DD in St. Charles County

* Shoulder and pavement improvements for Route P east of US 61 in St. Charles County

* A $200,000 study for I-270 from McDonnell Boulevard to MO 367

* Another study of the west end of the PSB - unless this is misnamed design work for replacing the I-55 ramps, this one is a total waste.  There was enough study during the initial development of the Great Lemon Bridge; the money for this study ought to go to extending the I-270 study a few more miles.

IDOT
* Modify the US 67/Clark Bridge intersection with IL 143

* Resurfacing a short section of IL 143 in Edwardsville

Most likely those approaches, which are poorly designed

And MoDOT should had extended that damn I-270 study to IL Route 3 at least

IDiOT plans of the US 67/IL 143 intersection is probably an indirect result of Dec 8, 2010 accident on the COR that clogged 143 for 9 miles b/c the COR was closed for 10 hours during the morning rush.  That bleeping left turn from WB 143 to the Clark Bridge is a joke.  IL 140 dumps into IL 143 traffic right before the bridge, this area wasn't well designed in the first place and they finished that work after the infamous night of August 10, 1994.