Underutilized toll roads

[froggie]

The Kingery/Borman carries about 92,000 vehicles a day at the state line with about 64,000 vehicles going north on the Bishop Ford (nee Calumet).  30,000 to 36,000 vehicles use the I-94 ramps through the interchange between the two.  At the Skyway interchange, about 122,000 vehicles go south on the Ryan as opposed to a mere 22,000 on the Skyway.

Given that the volumes shown in the report are all one-way volumes, roughly double your numbers to get the two-way daily traffic.  For example, the Kingery/Borman has 91,600 daily EB and 93,300 daily WB vehicles at the state line, for a two-way AADT total of 184,900.  The maps show a combined 2-way volume for the Skyway of 47,400, which is roughly in line (mid-40s) for other traffic figures I've seen for the Skyway from other sources.

[ET21]

Going off the OP for E-470, I think they planned for the eventual outward expansion of the residential growth. Unfortunately, that doesn't bode well right now in the short term for $$$. I'm curious as to why they didn't make it a complete loop connecting the Northwest Parkway to the western 470 terminus at I-70

One word:  NIMBYs!!! 

Yep. The loop was planned to be finished but the remaining portion of it would have passed through Golden, a place that doesn't believe in building infrastructure that only accommodates motorized traffic and today is the epicenter of hipsterdom in the area. The western bypass of Golden that carries US 6 and CO 93 was built on the right of way planned for Northwest Parkway, but as a 2-4 lane undivided expressway rather than a freeway.

Hippy's vs road lol

[english si]

A butt ton of them in Spain. Especially true when the route is entirely paralleled by a free autovia.

[wphiii]

I've never seen much traffic the times I've been on the Mon-Fayette in Pennsylvania.

Love when I have the opportunity to use the MFE because you are pretty much guaranteed the whole road practically to yourself. Unfortunately, because the MFE is inherently not very useful, those opportunities are rather infrequent.

[BrianP]

The Expressway several years back built the Exit 41 Cross Keys Rd interchange in Gloucester Twp, in part to help ease congestion on Rt. 42 (which I guess would be the opposite of shunpiking).

That interchange wasn't about congestion as much as it was for access.  Look at all of the commercial buildup in the area around the interchange since then.  Gloucester Township pushed for the interchange to buildup that part of the town.  The interchange and subsequent buildup brought more congestion to Cross Keys Road. Gloucester Township wanted to get in on the commercial business happening on 42 which at that point is in Washington Township.  Gloucester Township did it again when they pushed for the College Drive interchange.  Now there's an outlet mall about to open there.  That'll be direct competition for Deptford Township and Washington Township.

[BrianP]

You will almost never see traffic jams on the AC Expressway during rush hour, but don't associate that with being underutilized!

I would think that's the definition of being underutilized, especially by New Jersey standards.

That road was built for summer traffic to get to the beaches and casinos.  For that purpose the road is not under utilized.   Otherwise why have they widened the highway over the years?

[jeffandnicole]

You will almost never see traffic jams on the AC Expressway during rush hour, but don't associate that with being underutilized!

I would think that's the definition of being underutilized, especially by New Jersey standards.

That road was built for summer traffic to get to the beaches and casinos.  For that purpose the road is not under utilized.   Otherwise why have they widened the highway over the years?

Actually the road was opened about a decade before the casinos came to NJ.

[cl94]

I would also guess NY 23 and NY 199 (both across the Hudson), although those are both complete guesses from me.

Your guesses would be incorrect. Rip Van Winkle (NY 23) had a forecasted AADT of 14.3K in 2013. Kingston-Rhinecliff (NY 199) had a 2013 estimate of 21.1K. Both are pretty substantial for 2 lane undivided bridges that only connect to surface roads at the eastern end.

The Castleton Bridge a bit upstream of Rip Van Winkle is underutilized. Actual 2013 AADT taken on the Rensselaer side was 12.9K and, except for the lack of a substantial barrier on the bridge, the entire Berkshire Spur is Interstate quality. Castleton is the least-utilized crossing south of Cohoes.

[Duke87]

And on the other end of the state: the Northeast Extension north of Wilkes-Barre is a ghost road.

You can thank Eisenhower for that. Originally the turnpike was supposed to extend all the way to the NY state line, Clark's Summit was built as a temporary terminus. Then, with interstate money, PennDOT built I-81 on the planned ROW north of there. But instead of using the turnpike extension, they went and built a new free alignment that passes closer to downtown and provides direct access to I-84, I-380, and the US 6 bypass.

So of course no one uses the Northeast Extension because in addition to being tolled, it's severely lacking in connections to anything.

The Castleton Bridge a bit upstream of Rip Van Winkle is underutilized. Actual 2013 AADT taken on the Rensselaer side was 12.9K and, except for the lack of a substantial barrier on the bridge, the entire Berkshire Spur is Interstate quality. Castleton is the least-utilized crossing south of Cohoes.

Another thank Eisenhower example. Once free I-90 was completed, there was no longer much justification for people to use that section of road. Free I-90 provides connections to most of Albany that are just as good or better for local traffic, and provides an easy shunpike route for longer distance traffic.

This precipitous drop in traffic even resulted in the closing of a pair of service plazas west of B1. One of which is now in use as a local business!

[formulanone]

I've never heard the term shunpiking before. I had to go look it up.

"Shunpike" is a word that apparently predates the roadgeek community - I remember seeing it in a dictionary over 30 years ago, when I had to look up the word "shun", thinking it couldn't really be a word. That said, I never heard anyone say or use shunpike until arriving here.

What's the deal with FL 293 by Valpariso? It seems like a tolled Super 2 is a rather pointless idea.

[iBallasticwolf2]

And on the other end of the state: the Northeast Extension north of Wilkes-Barre is a ghost road.

You can thank Eisenhower for that. Originally the turnpike was supposed to extend all the way to the NY state line, Clark's Summit was built as a temporary terminus.
So of course no one uses the Northeast Extension because in addition to being tolled, it's severely lacking in connections to anything.

Two questions.

1. Is the "Temporary Ending" thing why the end of the Northeastern Extension at Clark's Summit have that strange sharp curve?

2. If the Northeastern Extension went to the NY Line would we have had a NY thruway spur to the Northeastern Extension?

[cl94]

And on the other end of the state: the Northeast Extension north of Wilkes-Barre is a ghost road.

You can thank Eisenhower for that. Originally the turnpike was supposed to extend all the way to the NY state line, Clark's Summit was built as a temporary terminus.
So of course no one uses the Northeast Extension because in addition to being tolled, it's severely lacking in connections to anything.

Two questions.

1. Is the "Temporary Ending" thing why the end of the Northeastern Extension at Clark's Summit have that strange sharp curve?

2. If the Northeastern Extension went to the NY Line would we have had a NY thruway spur to the Northeastern Extension?

To answer:

1. Yes. If the curve wasn't there, it would flow onto current I-81. Very evident on a map.

2. Don't think so. The NY 17 upgrades were proposed as the state's first modern free expressway and began construction before the Interstate system. I know NYSTA didn't like the idea of a free route, but I do not know if any of it was planned to be tolled.

[jeffandnicole]

I've never heard the term shunpiking before. I had to go look it up.

"Shunpike" is a word that apparently predates the roadgeek community - I remember seeing it in a dictionary over 30 years ago, when I had to look up the word "shun", thinking it couldn't really be a word. That said, I never heard anyone say or use shunpike until arriving here.

Many shunpikes predate any modern toll road, and were probably born back in the horse and buggy days of the 1800's or 1900's.  Here's one example of a road named Shunpike Rd where there's no modern day toll road around: https://goo.gl/maps/XCYkg

[Duke87]

Many shunpikes predate any modern toll road, and were probably born back in the horse and buggy days of the 1800's or 1900's.  Here's one example of a road named Shunpike Rd where there's no modern day toll road around: https://goo.gl/maps/XCYkg

Even older than that. Toll roads have existed since antiquity.

If you see any road whose name ends in "turnpike" it probably was once tolled. The word "turnpike" itself refers to the action of a toll taker turning a pike (i.e. lifting a gate) to grant access to the road. The term "shunpike", then, logically arises from this - it's a means of shunning the pike.

[dgolub]

How about the Atlantic Beach Bridge, which is at the end of the Nassau Expressway (NY 878)?  Apparently, they don't even have the money to install E-ZPass detectors, so it's still all cash.  I've heard rumors that the purpose of the toll is more to keep through traffic out of Atlantic Beach than to make money for the county.

[cl94]

How about the Atlantic Beach Bridge, which is at the end of the Nassau Expressway (NY 878)?  Apparently, they don't even have the money to install E-ZPass detectors, so it's still all cash.  I've heard rumors that the purpose of the toll is more to keep through traffic out of Atlantic Beach than to make money for the county.

Wrong on E-ZPass. They haven't installed it because the county doesn't want to be subject to audits and accounting. The Nassau County Bridge Authority has been corrupt for the entire 70 years of its existence. The toll is mainly to give jobs to retirees and the children/relatives of politicians.

[hbelkins]

And on the other end of the state: the Northeast Extension north of Wilkes-Barre is a ghost road.

You can thank Eisenhower for that. Originally the turnpike was supposed to extend all the way to the NY state line, Clark's Summit was built as a temporary terminus. Then, with interstate money, PennDOT built I-81 on the planned ROW north of there. But instead of using the turnpike extension, they went and built a new free alignment that passes closer to downtown and provides direct access to I-84, I-380, and the US 6 bypass.

So of course no one uses the Northeast Extension because in addition to being tolled, it's severely lacking in connections to anything.

Last time I went that direction, there was a horrendous traffic jam on I-81 northbound. I bailed at the connection to I-476 (PA 315?) and used the NE Extension to connect with US 11 north at Clark's Summit. There was hardly any traffic on 476. I'm not sure how much I had to pay in tolls (I have E-ZPass) but it was worth it to get out of that mess on I-81.

[froggie]

Originally the turnpike was supposed to extend all the way to the NY state line, Clark's Summit was built as a temporary terminus. Then, with interstate money, PennDOT built I-81 on the planned ROW north of there. But instead of using the turnpike extension, they went and built a new free alignment that passes closer to downtown and provides direct access to I-84, I-380, and the US 6 bypass.

Which means the Turnpike Extension is one of Scranton's best kept secrets.  Between the 65 MPH lack of traffic on the extension and the 55 MPH lucky-to-maintain-it-with-heavy-traffic on I-81, it's generally a wash as far as travel time, and is actually advantagous if one is on the Extension to/from the Lehigh Valley.  I used it almost exclusively when I made my Norfolk-Syracuse runs a decade ago.

What's the deal with FL 293 by Valpariso? It seems like a tolled Super 2 is a rather pointless idea.

A way for traffic to bypass the dozen or so signals on FL 20 through Niceville.  Has its best utility for those trying to access points from Destin eastward from I-10.

2. If the Northeastern Extension went to the NY Line would we have had a NY thruway spur to the Northeastern Extension?

Possibly.  A 1955 toll roads map suggests NYSTA was proposing a north-south toll road that, oddly, would've skipped Binghamton and Syracuse but served Utica.  It stands to reason that, had the 1956 highway act not followed through (or Congress went with tolls instead of a gas tax as a funding mechanism), NYSTA probably would've revised their route to match whatever came north from Scranton.

[vdeane]

Now I'm imagining what a tolled Adirondack Northway would look like.  I'm imagining a lot fewer exits.

It would also be interesting to think about what having nowhere to go from Albany without paying a toll would do to development.  There would probably be a lot less sprawl between Albany and Lake George.

[hotdogPi]

It would also be interesting to think about what having nowhere to go from Albany without paying a toll would do to development.

I-88?

[briantroutman]

A 1955 toll roads map suggests...

Thanks–this is the first visual evidence I've seen that illustrates what Jeff Kitsko's PA Turnpike history describes as:
"An east-west highway that would run from Stroudsburg to an unspecified point on the Susquehanna River (some maps showed the terminus at Millersburg)."

A PA Turnpike extension that would have served Schuylkill County and then dead ended in an isolated river town of a couple thousand people–missing the state capital and making no connection to the east-west mainline–always struck me as a laughable idea...and yet there it is!

I think we're all better off that this east-west extension ended up becoming Stroudsburg-Sharon (and subsequently the Keystone Shortway and I-80) instead.

You can also see the proposed Gettysburg Extension clearly.

[cpzilliacus]

And on the other end of the state: the Northeast Extension north of Wilkes-Barre is a ghost road.

You can thank Eisenhower for that. Originally the turnpike was supposed to extend all the way to the NY state line, Clark's Summit was built as a temporary terminus. Then, with interstate money, PennDOT built I-81 on the planned ROW north of there. But instead of using the turnpike extension, they went and built a new free alignment that passes closer to downtown and provides direct access to I-84, I-380, and the US 6 bypass.

So of course no one uses the Northeast Extension because in addition to being tolled, it's severely lacking in connections to anything.

Last time I went that direction, there was a horrendous traffic jam on I-81 northbound. I bailed at the connection to I-476 (PA 315?) and used the NE Extension to connect with US 11 north at Clark's Summit. There was hardly any traffic on 476. I'm not sure how much I had to pay in tolls (I have E-ZPass) but it was worth it to get out of that mess on I-81.

The north end of 476 also rewards drivers with a pretty spectacular view of the Lackawanna River Valley, especially southbound.

[vdeane]

It would also be interesting to think about what having nowhere to go from Albany without paying a toll would do to development.

I-88?

A bit further west than most development, though there's some near exit 25... longer exit distances, mountainous terrain, and the necessity of dealing with the exit 24 toll backup if commuting in don't help the case for developing it.

[xcellntbuy]

Now I'm imagining what a tolled Adirondack Northway would look like.  I'm imagining a lot fewer exits.

It would also be interesting to think about what having nowhere to go from Albany without paying a toll would do to development.  There would probably be a lot less sprawl between Albany and Lake George.

When I was little, the Adirondack Northway shrunk down to 4 lanes just north of the Twin Bridges over the Mohawk River.  BGS were anchored on large log-size posts.  It was a dull ride all the way to Lake George, particularly so north of Saratoga Springs.  Interstate 87 was expanded to six lanes around 1970.  Taking US 9, Albany-Saratoga Road was not much better, really dull with all the tall pines along vast straight sections in the Town of Wilton.  Much has changed in 50 years. 

[realjd]

What's the deal with FL 293 by Valpariso? It seems like a tolled Super 2 is a rather pointless idea.

It's primarily a toll bridge. The super 2 section is primarily a bridge approach to make it easier to get to from I10 and VPS. It was built as part of the toll bridge. I think it was largely a funding issue and this way they could build it without spending tax dollars. I have no idea if it's an FDOT highway or a county tolling authority highway.

What's even more annoying IMO is the Osceola Parkway, the only toll road I know that's riddled with stoplight and strip malls.