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Author Topic: Old CA 41/46, Old CA 1, US 466, and for sake of obscurity CA 229  (Read 4234 times)

Max Rockatansky

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Old CA 41/46, Old CA 1, US 466, and for sake of obscurity CA 229
« on: December 07, 2016, 07:02:21 PM »

The title of the thread more or less says it all.  Had a free day up in Fresno and decided to check out some stuff near the coast that caught my eye.  Took a trip down to Santa Rosa Creek Road which was the pre-1964 CA 41 and briefly CA 46 into the 1970s, the section of CA 1 from Cambria to Morro Bay, parts of old US 466 along modern 41, and finally just for the hell of it CA 229 since it's so weird.  Looks like this will be a seven part series based off posting my photos ten at a time.  As per the norm with my thread I'll save any reference materials I have for the final post.

SO!...with that in mind, Part 1.  I had to get to Santa Rosa Creek Road somehow, thankfully the fog wasn't too bad this morning due to the freezing weather which got me to Kettleman City relatively early:



South of Kettleman City I have a very strong suspicion that runs just west of modern CA 41 is part of the original alignment of the highway.  My theory is based off the fact that there is an apparent layer of asphalt visible under the dirt top layer in sections, that it crosses CA 33, that the road is a direct shot south while the modern road isn't, and merges back in with CA 41 south of of the 33 junction.  First the south bound look:



Followed up by the northbound look at the gas station located the 33 junction:



CA 41 tops out at a summit of about 1,800 feet traversing southbound towards CA 46.  Got a nice bit of fog heading downhill towards the junction with 46:





Of course 46 and 41 are multiplexed to Shandon nowadays.  Prior to 1964 both US 466 and CA 41 would have multiplexed all the way to Paso Robles.  46 in general between CA 99 and US 101 gets a crap ton of vehicle traffic, it's pretty easy to understand why in retrospect it was a US Route.  Caltrans sure tries to dissuade truckers from using CA 41 south of Shandon though:



I don't recall this construction here back in January, it would seem that the expressway is being built east towards the James Dean Memorial.  The signage is pretty good showing the multiplex prior to 41 cutting away:



Actually managed to get a decent photo of 46 west of Shandon crossing Indian Creek with no glare that had to be edited out:



What is now CA 41 south of Shandon was not a signed state highway prior to 1964.  Instead it was just LRN 125 and as I stated previously CA 41 followed US 466 to US 101.  For a couple miles south there was a triple multiplex of US 101, US 466, and CA 41...no wonder it got changed:



Part 2 will be up soon which is where I'll reach Santa Rosa Road.

Max Rockatansky

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Re: Old CA 41/46, Old CA 1, US 466, and for sake of obscurity CA 229
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2016, 07:23:03 PM »

Part 2
Continuing on from Part 1, there is actually a pretty nicely faded out sign indicating the CA 46/US 101 multiplex at exit 231:



These days the triple multiplex is long gone and it's just US 101/CA 46 from exit 231 south to 228 where 46 cuts west.  The signage on the US 101 freeway indicating the multiplex is pretty solid:




As stated previously prior the 1964 renumbering CA 41 went to Cambria and CA 1.  After 1964 CA 41 was realigned and CA 46 was put on the old alignment west to Cambria.  CA 46 took the same path down Santa Rosa Creek Road which at the time was still oiled dirt.  The change on 46 to the modern alignment is shown between the maps I have from 1970 to 1975, the reason for the realignment will soon be obvious:




And this would be why, Santa Rosa Creek Road is extremely narrow and really inadequate by mid-20th century standards:




Surprisingly a ton of people live in ranch homes on Santa Rosa.  This must have been one hell of a brutal drive when this was the direct path to Cambria:



Santa Rosa Creek Road climbs to about 1,600-1,700 according to my altimeter.  Apparently the pass is called "Santa Rosa Pass" but it is known locally as "The Wall" for obvious reason.  Really this is the worst part of the road and was undergoing some active patching as I was driving through:





Max Rockatansky

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Re: Old CA 41/46, Old CA 1, US 466, and for sake of obscurity CA 229
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2016, 07:33:46 PM »

Part 3

It doesn't look it, but there is actually just enough room for two cars to pass each other somewhat normally descending The Wall:






At the bottom of The Wall the road runs alongside Santa Rosa Creek proper and has a series of short bridges:




It would seem said bridges are from the 1940s:




I don't actually recall encountering any wild turkeys anywhere else in the state before, weird that they are so close to a town:



Close to Cambria there is a decent view back up the mountains eastward:

Max Rockatansky

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Re: Old CA 41/46, Old CA 1, US 466, and for sake of obscurity CA 229
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2016, 07:50:46 PM »

Part 4

The closer Santa Rosa Creek Road gets to Cambria the better the condition it is in.  From here westward it's actually relatively new asphalt:




Within the last couple to Cambria Santa Rosa Creek Road becomes a marked two-lane:



Santa Rosa Creek Road ends at Main Street in Cambria.  This would have been the terminus of CA 41 at CA 1 before it became CA 1 Business:



Speaking of CA 1 Business, it's actually signed in Cambria:



And even the street blade has a CA Shield:



Heading south on CA 1 I stopped at Harmony.  If anyone read the Max's Roads thread you'll recall I'm pretty certain that Old Creamery Road was a previous alignment of CA 1.  I'm still trying to find any document showing CA 1 running through the middle of Harmony:





Stopped near point Estero to get a picture of Morro Bay:



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Re: Old CA 41/46, Old CA 1, US 466, and for sake of obscurity CA 229
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2016, 08:10:15 PM »

Part 5

And of course a photo of Point Estero:



Since today was all about old highway alignments my path was back north on CA 41, timed the photo just right to get Morro Rock in the picture:



From 1934 to 1964 Main and Atascadero was the western terminus of US 466.  Weird to think in retrospect that US 466 went all this way just to end at CA 1 when the terminus would have made more sense at US 101 in Paso Robles:




The road north on CA 41/Old US 101 is actually pretty good and probably could handle 60-65 MPH.  There appears to be an older alignment of US 466 east of the pass in this photo called Old Morro Road:



Basically US 101 and US 466 would have headed north from here to Paso Robles while LRN 125 would have followed 41 north to Shandon.  Since I was heading to CA 229 I was headed south to CA 58:




I didn't see an end marker for CA 58 but I managed to get the first 58 reassurance marker.  Speaking of old alignments this would have been the western terminus of CA 178 before 1964 when CA 58 was reassigned to the section west of Bakersfield.  Oddly the LRN for 178 was actually LRN 58 which extended all the way east to the Arizona state line along US 66:



Of course 58 east to Bakersfield is no joke and sparsely used by anything other than trucks.  Taking 46 or 166 is no joke unless you are prepared for a hard drive:


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Re: Old CA 41/46, Old CA 1, US 466, and for sake of obscurity CA 229
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2016, 08:22:14 PM »

Part 6

One last reminder why 58 probably isn't suited for the average traveler with a GPS telling them the speed limit is 55 MPH:



Not the best photo I've had of a junction but I had to keep to show an actual Caltrans truck was at CA 229.  What the are the odds considering I saw one on CA 146 just a week back?



The southern terminus of CA 229 is signed pretty well with a solid "End" marker:




229 is a strange road given that it's one of the few state highways that is one and half lanes.  Basically it's got a similar vibe to CA 4 over Ebbetts Pass and CA 146 west albeit with much gentler terrain.  The road is like this for the first 9 miles north, I tried to get a photo about every half miles.  I encountered a wild fire being worked on by Cal Fire and a Caltrans crew doing tree work.  Since I was waiting at a flagman I asked how many cars had been by, the worker said eight by his count going back to the morning before:







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Re: Old CA 41/46, Old CA 1, US 466, and for sake of obscurity CA 229
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2016, 08:45:03 PM »

And Part 7.

229 opens up to a two-lane about a mile or so south of Creston:







Oddly there is no 229 "End' at the northern terminus of the highway but there is a reassurance marker in the northbound lane in Creston one mile south of the terminus:



CA 229 would have been LRN 137 from 1933 until it was assigned a state route number in 1964.  It's actually kind of surprising to me that the road has never been relinquished to San Luis Obispo County given how little it actually used and the easy terrain.  Even CA 41 north to Shandon is seldom used.  Speaking which the character of 41 is completely different here than really any other part of the remainder of the highway.  The turns are much tighter and the road is much more narrow, I would suspect that has a lot to do with it being unsigned LRN 125 prior to CA 41 being realigned:



From 1964 to 2011 CA 41 would have taken a right into Shandon proper on Centre Street.  The highway was realigned to CA 46 on west Centre Street that year in a maintenance transfer with San Luis Obispo County:



I don't really agree with this sign, I've seen trucks handle much worse than 41:



Heading east into Shandon there is a mid-20th century bridge that's obvious old state highway material traversing Indian Creek:



And that's it for this little road trip.  One thing that bothers me is that the information I have about Santa Rosa Creek Road shows it as unpaved until 46 was moved to the modern alignment between 1970 and 1975.  So the question is, when the hell was Santa Rosa Creek Road paved?...because it sure is terrible shape in places.  Some unanswered questions remain about the grade of 41 south of Kettleman and Old Creamery Road with CA 1.  If I find the answers I'll update this post but this is what I have for research materials for this thread:

1938 State Highway Map showing CA 41 on Santa Rosa Road, US 466 ending in Morro Bay, both LRN 125 and LRN 137 are shown as unsigned highways:

http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~239588~5511892:Road-Map-of-the-State-of-California?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No&qvq=q:caltrans;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=69&trs=86

1963 State Highway Map showing CA 41 on Santa Rosa Road, US 466 ending in Morro Bay, LRN 125, and LRN 137:

http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~239528~5511852:State-Highway-Map,-California,-1963?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No&qvq=q:caltrans;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=29&trs=86

1964 State Highway Map showing CA 46 on Santa Rosa Road, CA 41 ending in Morro Bay, CA 41 on former LRN 125, and CA 229 on former LRN 137:

http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~239525~5511850:State-Highway-Map,-California,-1964?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No&qvq=q:caltrans;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=27&trs=86

USends page on the endpoints of US 466:

http://www.usends.com/466.html

Cahighways page which contains CA 41 and the change on Centre Street in Shandon back in 2011:

http://www.cahighways.org/041-048.html

An article about Santa Rosa Creek Road:

http://www.sanluisobispo.com/living/article39160248.html

NE2

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Re: Old CA 41/46, Old CA 1, US 466, and for sake of obscurity CA 229
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2016, 10:58:40 PM »

South of Kettleman City I have a very strong suspicion that runs just west of modern CA 41 is part of the original alignment of the highway.  My theory is based off the fact that there is an apparent layer of asphalt visible under the dirt top layer in sections, that it crosses CA 33, that the road is a direct shot south while the modern road isn't, and merges back in with CA 41 south of of the 33 junction.
It certainly was the only road on a 1994 aerial.

Of course 46 and 41 are multiplexed to Shandon nowadays.  Prior to 1964 both US 466 and CA 41 would have multiplexed all the way to Paso Robles.

What is now CA 41 south of Shandon was not a signed state highway prior to 1964.  Instead it was just LRN 125 and as I stated previously CA 41 followed US 466 to US 101.  For a couple miles south there was a triple multiplex of US 101, US 466, and CA 41...no wonder it got changed:
Not quite. US 466 originally used the SR 41 corridor through Creston. It's not until 1959 that officials began clearly showing US 466 via Paso Robles.
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: Old CA 41/46, Old CA 1, US 466, and for sake of obscurity CA 229
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2016, 11:33:23 PM »

South of Kettleman City I have a very strong suspicion that runs just west of modern CA 41 is part of the original alignment of the highway.  My theory is based off the fact that there is an apparent layer of asphalt visible under the dirt top layer in sections, that it crosses CA 33, that the road is a direct shot south while the modern road isn't, and merges back in with CA 41 south of of the 33 junction.
It certainly was the only road on a 1994 aerial.

Of course 46 and 41 are multiplexed to Shandon nowadays.  Prior to 1964 both US 466 and CA 41 would have multiplexed all the way to Paso Robles.

What is now CA 41 south of Shandon was not a signed state highway prior to 1964.  Instead it was just LRN 125 and as I stated previously CA 41 followed US 466 to US 101.  For a couple miles south there was a triple multiplex of US 101, US 466, and CA 41...no wonder it got changed:
Not quite. US 466 originally used the SR 41 corridor through Creston. It's not until 1959 that officials began clearly showing US 466 via Paso Robles.
Looks like you're right, here is the 1959 map showing US 466 going to Paso Robles:

http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~239540~5511860:Road-Map-of-the-State-of-California?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No&qvq=q:caltrans;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=37&trs=86

None of the maps in that series prior to 1959 show a clear alignment east of Atascadero.  Cahighways has US 466 following the same corridor through Paso Robles throughout its entire service span:

http://www.cahighways.org/466-740.html

Casey Cooper's description has the original routing following LRN 125 all the way to Shandon:

http://gbcnet.com/ushighways/US466.html

Hopefully someone reading this has a more detailed map of San Luis Obispo County prior to 1959, I'd like to get that one correct on this thread.  Either way, it looks like modern 46 from Shandon to Paso Robles was paved way back even in 1934 when US 466 was first signed:

http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~239594~5511896:Road-Map-of-the-State-of-California?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No&qvq=q:caltrans;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=73&trs=86

Strange that 41 got the roadway that was paved over US 466.  The route that LRN 125 took from Atascadero doesn't show being paved completely west of CA 229 until 1969:

http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~239513~5511842:State-Highway-Map,-California,-1969?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No&qvq=q:caltrans;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=19&trs=86

Just curious, do you have a copy or link that the map south of Kettleman showing 41 on that older road?  I'd love to see it if you got it handy.

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Re: Old CA 41/46, Old CA 1, US 466, and for sake of obscurity CA 229
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2016, 11:00:57 AM »

Not quite. US 466 originally used the SR 41 corridor through Creston. It's not until 1959 that officials began clearly showing US 466 via Paso Robles.
Looks like you're right, here is the 1959 map showing US 466 going to Paso Robles:

Hopefully someone reading this has a more detailed map of San Luis Obispo County prior to 1959, I'd like to get that one correct on this thread.  Either way, it looks like modern 46 from Shandon to Paso Robles was paved way back even in 1934 when US 466 was first signed:
Here is a 1934 map that shows US 466 on LR 125: http://archive.org/stream/californiahighwa193436calirich#page/n275/mode/2up

1937 (map 7): http://research.archives.gov/id/5823159

And a 1956 Gousha: http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~235845~5510637:-South-half--Road-map-of-California

Just curious, do you have a copy or link that the map south of Kettleman showing 41 on that older road?  I'd love to see it if you got it handy.
http://historicaerials.com/?layer=1994&zoom=16&lat=35.888&lon=-120.046
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Re: Old CA 41/46, Old CA 1, US 466, and for sake of obscurity CA 229
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2016, 06:16:17 PM »

Great pix as usual, Max!  Back in the '80's my ex and I made several round trips from Fresno to Avila Beach (weekend rental); she usually drove south; I drove the return trip north.  We always did 41>46>101 southbound as she preferred the main roads (she rarely dipped below 70 on the open road, often staying around 80-85).  I, on the other hand, usually did the 58>229>41 "cutoff" when it was my turn to drive -- she made a point to have her face buried in a newspaper or book between Santa Margarita & Creston; didn't much like "back roads".  Off-the-cuff comparisons indicated that it took roughly about the same amount of time either way -- my shorter mileage compared to her penchant for speed.  But I've always liked that little "shortcut", although I've had scant reasons to utilize it in later years. 
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Re: Old CA 41/46, Old CA 1, US 466, and for sake of obscurity CA 229
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2016, 07:14:02 PM »

So many gorgeous pix!  Every time I see Max's collection of photos, it just stuns me with how well he is showing us here the countryside, the roads, the signs, the towns and the views. 

Thank you again for yet another outstanding series Max. 

Rick
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Re: Old CA 41/46, Old CA 1, US 466, and for sake of obscurity CA 229
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2016, 10:00:58 PM »

Looks like that one SR 58 trailblazer used Clearview numerals on the route marker. I think that's the first time I've seen that on a California state route marker.
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: Old CA 41/46, Old CA 1, US 466, and for sake of obscurity CA 229
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2016, 10:45:51 PM »

Not quite. US 466 originally used the SR 41 corridor through Creston. It's not until 1959 that officials began clearly showing US 466 via Paso Robles.
Looks like you're right, here is the 1959 map showing US 466 going to Paso Robles:

Hopefully someone reading this has a more detailed map of San Luis Obispo County prior to 1959, I'd like to get that one correct on this thread.  Either way, it looks like modern 46 from Shandon to Paso Robles was paved way back even in 1934 when US 466 was first signed:
Here is a 1934 map that shows US 466 on LR 125: http://archive.org/stream/californiahighwa193436calirich#page/n275/mode/2up

1937 (map 7): http://research.archives.gov/id/5823159

And a 1956 Gousha: http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~235845~5510637:-South-half--Road-map-of-California

Just curious, do you have a copy or link that the map south of Kettleman showing 41 on that older road?  I'd love to see it if you got it handy.
http://historicaerials.com/?layer=1994&zoom=16&lat=35.888&lon=-120.046

Interesting side note, the Gousha Map from 1956 shows CA 1 going right through Harmony.  I think it's safe to assume that Old Creamy Road was and is in fact the alignment of the time. 

I think that I have it figured out why the alignment of 41 was shifted.  The grade of the old road appears to much more substandard and prone to flooding given the drainage grade.  That and there was a couple entrances to a large ranch that is obviously too close for modern design standards. 

In regards to the US 466 stuff, I'm going to forward this thread up to Cahighwayguy for an update.  That alignment from Shandon entirely on LRN 125 to Morro is way too important not to note I would think.

Great pix as usual, Max!  Back in the '80's my ex and I made several round trips from Fresno to Avila Beach (weekend rental); she usually drove south; I drove the return trip north.  We always did 41>46>101 southbound as she preferred the main roads (she rarely dipped below 70 on the open road, often staying around 80-85).  I, on the other hand, usually did the 58>229>41 "cutoff" when it was my turn to drive -- she made a point to have her face buried in a newspaper or book between Santa Margarita & Creston; didn't much like "back roads".  Off-the-cuff comparisons indicated that it took roughly about the same amount of time either way -- my shorter mileage compared to her penchant for speed.  But I've always liked that little "shortcut", although I've had scant reasons to utilize it in later years.

I'm always up for the scenic route, even if it takes longer.  The older I get the less and less I like taking freeways or expressways.  I guess the scenery doesn't do too much for me on a groomed roadway that's designed for efficiency.  But then again I'm usually not in any hurry to get most places I go.  There was a trip up from Olympic National Park to Salt Lake City where I took less than 250 miles of freeway.  Suffice to say my passenger decided to stay at home for that one, she can't stand nor gets the whole road thing.  The one she can't stand is 41, 49, and US 50 to Sacramento rather than sticking with 99.

BUT, I'm thinking trips short cutting to the Big Sur area from Bakersfield and Fresno are going to require a side trip on Santa Rosa Creek Road.  That doesn't really take you out of the way too much and is a hell of a lot more engaging than modern 46 is.  229 was a nice little side trip back on something different and I've never seen any of those shields on the forum or gallery before.  Had there not been a fire and active Caltrans crews that first six miles would have been fun for a "see how close I can get to 55 MPH" test.

So many gorgeous pix!  Every time I see Max's collection of photos, it just stuns me with how well he is showing us here the countryside, the roads, the signs, the towns and the views. 

Thank you again for yet another outstanding series Max. 

Rick

Thanks, always appreciated.  Some of the routes I have on the short list for the next couple months will be; the Nacimiento Fergusson Road, Panoche Road, Coalinga-Los Gatos Creek Road, County Route G16, CA 35, CA 9, CA 238, and CA 130.  I figure that will be enough to hold me over until the high mountains start to melt for the spring.

Looks like that one SR 58 trailblazer used Clearview numerals on the route marker. I think that's the first time I've seen that on a California state route marker.

Yeah that was totally unexpected too.  Thankfully it was a slow right-on/right-off style ramp design at the CA 58 terminus otherwise it would have been hard to get a photo while driving.  There is some strange signage popping up in the last couple years as some of the older route blazers are finally getting replaced.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 11:00:01 PM by Max Rockatansky »
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Re: Old CA 41/46, Old CA 1, US 466, and for sake of obscurity CA 229
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2016, 11:01:05 AM »

These are great! Thanks for the great pictures.

58 from the coast to Bakersfield is on my list of trips to take one of these days. I really want to see what the route is like. I find 58 to be fascinating because of the sheer variety of the terrain it goes through. From the coastal ranges, to the Central Valley, to the high desert - it's quite interesting to see how the route changes 2-3 times throughout its entirety.

The GPS traffic can stick to 46! LOL.
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Re: Old CA 41/46, Old CA 1, US 466, and for sake of obscurity CA 229
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2016, 11:31:33 AM »

These are great! Thanks for the great pictures.

58 from the coast to Bakersfield is on my list of trips to take one of these days. I really want to see what the route is like. I find 58 to be fascinating because of the sheer variety of the terrain it goes through. From the coastal ranges, to the Central Valley, to the high desert - it's quite interesting to see how the route changes 2-3 times throughout its entirety.

The GPS traffic can stick to 46! LOL.

It's kind of a wild ride west of McKittick.   Not so much because of the terrain but rather because the highway literally follows it instead of being groomed to mow through it.  There is some oddities like 90 degree turns around ranch lands near California Valley to boot.  That's kind of why I think it's odd in retrospect to have 58 assigned over 178 back in 1964.  Aside from routing in Bakersfield I'd say 178 is much more consistent with the terrain than US 466 was.  166 and 46 are much more tolerable for getting across from the coastal region to San Joaquin Valley. 

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Re: Old CA 41/46, Old CA 1, US 466, and for sake of obscurity CA 229
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2016, 12:51:27 PM »


It's kind of a wild ride west of McKittick.   Not so much because of the terrain but rather because the highway literally follows it instead of being groomed to mow through it.  There is some oddities like 90 degree turns around ranch lands near California Valley to boot.  That's kind of why I think it's odd in retrospect to have 58 assigned over 178 back in 1964.  Aside from routing in Bakersfield I'd say 178 is much more consistent with the terrain than US 466 was.  166 and 46 are much more tolerable for getting across from the coastal region to San Joaquin Valley.

Yes, if I was with other passengers or needed to cut across the Central Valley from the coast, I would definitely take 46 or even 166. (Actually, my regular route is taking 101 to Ventura and then getting back to the Greater LA area via 126 and 118.) 58 is just a drive I'd like to do on my own, to explore. I've looked at maps of 58 and you're right, there are definitely some odd turns after the junction with CA 33. That makes me want to check it out all the more! LOL.
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DTComposer

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Re: Old CA 41/46, Old CA 1, US 466, and for sake of obscurity CA 229
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2016, 01:12:37 PM »

Not quite. US 466 originally used the SR 41 corridor through Creston. It's not until 1959 that officials began clearly showing US 466 via Paso Robles.
Looks like you're right, here is the 1959 map showing US 466 going to Paso Robles:

Hopefully someone reading this has a more detailed map of San Luis Obispo County prior to 1959, I'd like to get that one correct on this thread.  Either way, it looks like modern 46 from Shandon to Paso Robles was paved way back even in 1934 when US 466 was first signed:
Here is a 1934 map that shows US 466 on LR 125: http://archive.org/stream/californiahighwa193436calirich#page/n275/mode/2up

1937 (map 7): http://research.archives.gov/id/5823159

And a 1956 Gousha: http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~235845~5510637:-South-half--Road-map-of-California

Just curious, do you have a copy or link that the map south of Kettleman showing 41 on that older road?  I'd love to see it if you got it handy.
http://historicaerials.com/?layer=1994&zoom=16&lat=35.888&lon=-120.046

Interesting side note, the Gousha Map from 1956 shows CA 1 going right through Harmony.  I think it's safe to assume that Old Creamy Road was and is in fact the alignment of the time. 

The 1959 topo confirms this:
https://ngmdb.usgs.gov/img4/ht_icons/Browse/CA/CA_San%20Simeon_301611_1959_62500.jpg
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: Old CA 41/46, Old CA 1, US 466, and for sake of obscurity CA 229
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2016, 01:15:31 PM »


It's kind of a wild ride west of McKittick.   Not so much because of the terrain but rather because the highway literally follows it instead of being groomed to mow through it.  There is some oddities like 90 degree turns around ranch lands near California Valley to boot.  That's kind of why I think it's odd in retrospect to have 58 assigned over 178 back in 1964.  Aside from routing in Bakersfield I'd say 178 is much more consistent with the terrain than US 466 was.  166 and 46 are much more tolerable for getting across from the coastal region to San Joaquin Valley.

Yes, if I was with other passengers or needed to cut across the Central Valley from the coast, I would definitely take 46 or even 166. (Actually, my regular route is taking 101 to Ventura and then getting back to the Greater LA area via 126 and 118.) 58 is just a drive I'd like to do on my own, to explore. I've looked at maps of 58 and you're right, there are definitely some odd turns after the junction with CA 33. That makes me want to check it out all the more! LOL.

Really it isn't a bad place to start if you're looking at checking out some of the more interesting highway offerings around the state.  The terrain really isn't steep, so basically you are just dealing with sudden heavy brake zones and just the remoteness of the area 58 traverses through.  You aren't likely to encounter too many other vehicles almost certainly no truck traffic.  Soda Lake and California Valley are out there which are always an interesting side trip to check out.

Not quite. US 466 originally used the SR 41 corridor through Creston. It's not until 1959 that officials began clearly showing US 466 via Paso Robles.
Looks like you're right, here is the 1959 map showing US 466 going to Paso Robles:

Hopefully someone reading this has a more detailed map of San Luis Obispo County prior to 1959, I'd like to get that one correct on this thread.  Either way, it looks like modern 46 from Shandon to Paso Robles was paved way back even in 1934 when US 466 was first signed:
Here is a 1934 map that shows US 466 on LR 125: http://archive.org/stream/californiahighwa193436calirich#page/n275/mode/2up

1937 (map 7): http://research.archives.gov/id/5823159

And a 1956 Gousha: http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~235845~5510637:-South-half--Road-map-of-California

Just curious, do you have a copy or link that the map south of Kettleman showing 41 on that older road?  I'd love to see it if you got it handy.
http://historicaerials.com/?layer=1994&zoom=16&lat=35.888&lon=-120.046

Interesting side note, the Gousha Map from 1956 shows CA 1 going right through Harmony.  I think it's safe to assume that Old Creamy Road was and is in fact the alignment of the time. 

The 1959 topo confirms this:
https://ngmdb.usgs.gov/img4/ht_icons/Browse/CA/CA_San%20Simeon_301611_1959_62500.jpg

Yep, that's definitely on the east side of Perry Creek through Harmony whereas modern 1 is on the west side of the creek just north of Harmony.  Incidentally that also confirmed this little broken up patch of road at the modern 46/1 junction south of Cambria:

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.526712,-121.0455678,18z?hl=en
« Last Edit: December 09, 2016, 01:22:23 PM by Max Rockatansky »
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Hiroshi66

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Re: Old CA 41/46, Old CA 1, US 466, and for sake of obscurity CA 229
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2016, 03:03:59 PM »

Yes, I'm definitely looking forward to Soda Lake. I wonder why CA 58 wasn't extended further westward to join up with CA-1/Cabrillo Highway, but then again, I guess there was no need to extend a highway further west to Morro Bay - especially since you already have CA 41 going there.
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: Old CA 41/46, Old CA 1, US 466, and for sake of obscurity CA 229
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2016, 03:45:14 PM »

Yes, I'm definitely looking forward to Soda Lake. I wonder why CA 58 wasn't extended further westward to join up with CA-1/Cabrillo Highway, but then again, I guess there was no need to extend a highway further west to Morro Bay - especially since you already have CA 41 going there.

Really not much need given how close 1 can be reached from 101 and 41, especially with the terrain directly west of 58.  About the only place that might have worked for a state highway to 1 would be 198 via basically the alignment of the Nacimiento Road.  I'll get to that one soon, talk about a wild ride out of the mountains.

Hiroshi66

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Re: Old CA 41/46, Old CA 1, US 466, and for sake of obscurity CA 229
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2016, 08:55:11 AM »


Really not much need given how close 1 can be reached from 101 and 41, especially with the terrain directly west of 58.  About the only place that might have worked for a state highway to 1 would be 198 via basically the alignment of the Nacimiento Road.  I'll get to that one soon, talk about a wild ride out of the mountains.

Yes, it's really close and there's no point to have another road going to Morro Bay when it can be reached via 41 and the 1 itself. Extending 198 would be great, though! Looking forward to your Nacimiento Road pictures!
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Gulol

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Re: Old CA 41/46, Old CA 1, US 466, and for sake of obscurity CA 229
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2016, 10:42:57 AM »

Great pics!  Appreciate you sharing them with us
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coatimundi

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Re: Old CA 41/46, Old CA 1, US 466, and for sake of obscurity CA 229
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2016, 01:31:30 AM »

I have friends with land just north of 46. I had been on Santa Rosa Creek Road briefly when taking it from their house to Cayucos, but decided to try it as a back way in the last time I was there, instead of the normal northern route that I use, thinking it would save time. I don't think it saved any time. Santa Rosa Creek was a lot curvier than I expected, though I didn't see any traffic, which was surprising considering it's paved.
Old Creek Road into Cayucos is a wonderful drive as well. In the summer, you get into the coastal winds at some point going down the hill, and the temperature just shoots down.

Regarding Harmony, the 1959 topo of the San Simeon quad shows Highway 1 along today's Old Creamery Road (called the Dawson Grade north of there), as well as SR 41 running along Santa Rosa Creek Road, which was labeled Adelaida Road in the earlier versions of the map. I would fathom that they changed the name at some point to avoid confusion with the other Adelaida Road and to discourage people from trying to take the nail-biting Cypress Mountain Road over the hill to the beach. The '47 Adelaida quad also shows a disconnect in 41, right around Cypress Mountain Road. Maybe it wasn't paved at that time.

We have a large flock of resident wild turkeys where we live. They hang out in between the houses. A couple of years ago, some of them got on our roof. They're common in the coastal ranges. The ones here are definitely larger than the ones in Arizona.
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: Old CA 41/46, Old CA 1, US 466, and for sake of obscurity CA 229
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2016, 09:31:47 AM »

I have friends with land just north of 46. I had been on Santa Rosa Creek Road briefly when taking it from their house to Cayucos, but decided to try it as a back way in the last time I was there, instead of the normal northern route that I use, thinking it would save time. I don't think it saved any time. Santa Rosa Creek was a lot curvier than I expected, though I didn't see any traffic, which was surprising considering it's paved.
Old Creek Road into Cayucos is a wonderful drive as well. In the summer, you get into the coastal winds at some point going down the hill, and the temperature just shoots down.

Regarding Harmony, the 1959 topo of the San Simeon quad shows Highway 1 along today's Old Creamery Road (called the Dawson Grade north of there), as well as SR 41 running along Santa Rosa Creek Road, which was labeled Adelaida Road in the earlier versions of the map. I would fathom that they changed the name at some point to avoid confusion with the other Adelaida Road and to discourage people from trying to take the nail-biting Cypress Mountain Road over the hill to the beach. The '47 Adelaida quad also shows a disconnect in 41, right around Cypress Mountain Road. Maybe it wasn't paved at that time.

We have a large flock of resident wild turkeys where we live. They hang out in between the houses. A couple of years ago, some of them got on our roof. They're common in the coastal ranges. The ones here are definitely larger than the ones in Arizona.

All the maps I posted above don't show Santa Rosa Creek Road paved even when 46 was routed on it.  There is a tiny little section out by Main Street where Leffingwell High School is located.  DT's topo from 1959 he posted above show 41/Santa Rosa as a light duty road which I'm assuming is graded gravel. 

But looking back at Santa Rosa Creek Road, its no surprised that the highway was realigned.  There absolutely no way to straighten that road and even widening would be incredibly difficult with the terrain in addition to all the private property.  I guess that was the amusing thing for me when I was out there, I usually don't see so many pedestrian vehicles on roads like that.  There was actually a Jetta climbing the Wall as I was descending it. 

In regards to Cypress, that looked like that might be pretty tame (aside from the massive cliff face you encounter approaching Santa Road Creek Road) even for a car to attempt when dry.  I base that assumption that the road has a Road Open/Road Closed sign at Klau Mine Road and the GSV made it a good way uphill northbound in 2008.

Great pics!  Appreciate you sharing them with us

Thanks, appreciate the sentiments.




Yes, it's really close and there's no point to have another road going to Morro Bay when it can be reached via 41 and the 1 itself. Extending 198 would be great, though! Looking forward to your Nacimiento Road pictures!

We'll see about next Thursday, I'll be up in the area and I won't have much to do.  Supposed there is a half inch of rain in the forecast which isn't something I really enjoying slogging around in.  If it clears up a bit I might give it a go, I probably won't do the whole thing since Fort Hunter Liggett can be wonky with closing part of the road during training exercises.  Really I would like to do CA 130 from the Lick Observatory first.  The week of Christmas looks promising so far for clear weather, I'll be heading that way first if it holds.  Can't usually count on a clear day 4,000 feet or above this time of year.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2016, 09:39:12 AM by Max Rockatansky »
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