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Author Topic: School Zone restricted hours and no turn on red exceptions  (Read 8845 times)

Truvelo

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School Zone restricted hours and no turn on red exceptions
« on: November 13, 2009, 01:54:55 PM »

Hey folks, I need some answers for the following.

Last week I came across several school zones where there is a 20mph limit during restricted hours. What exactly are the restricted hours as they weren't posted on the signs? I passed most of them during the middle of the day and the traffic in front and behind was doing around 35 which is the limit either side of the school zone.

Another thing that confused me was the no turn on red signs with an exception below that was in so small a typeface that I couldn't read it properly. I think it said something like except right turn lane which sort of contradicts the meaning of right turn on red since it can only be performed when turning right.

Both of these were in Ohio if it helps.
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Re: School Zone restricted hours and no turn on red exceptions
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2009, 02:13:51 PM »

It depends on the state. When I lived in RI I got a ticket in a school zone, and it was at least an hour before school started. The cop mentioned something about it being in effect during daylight hours.

In upstate NY most school speed signs were accompanied with a "7am-6pm" placard.

In California I usually see "When Children Are Present".

About the right turn, I've seen cases where there are 2 right turn lanes, and only the rightmost of the lanes is allowed to turn right on red.
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Brandon

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Re: School Zone restricted hours and no turn on red exceptions
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2009, 02:16:06 PM »

The hours are usually while children are entering/leaving school (approx. 8-9am and 3pm).  Personally, I hate the signs because of their ambiguity.  Around my area, we have ones that state "WHILE FLASHING" and have yellow lights that flash during these times.  I like those much better.

I hate the signs that are so small you cannot possibly read the type on them.  Most of the ones I've seen usualy say "When pedestrians (or children) are present" or give a time such as "2pm-9pm".  For the legend on yours, just remember that it is Ohio.  :spin:
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corco

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Re: School Zone restricted hours and no turn on red exceptions
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2009, 02:18:52 PM »

In Laramie we have an intersection with right on red banned during the daytime because there's a diagonal pedestrian crossing and you'd hit peds by turning right on red

Brandon

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Re: School Zone restricted hours and no turn on red exceptions
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2009, 02:19:23 PM »

About the right turn, I've seen cases where there are 2 right turn lanes, and only the rightmost of the lanes is allowed to turn right on red.

We have more than a few of those around Chicagoland.  They usually state "Right Turn On Red From Right Lane Only".
Example: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=41.75068,-88.036408&spn=0,359.964209&z=16&layer=c&cbll=41.750669,-88.036509&panoid=K2z3pFScAYg4v6JZwh9DDQ&cbp=12,208.72,,0,3.81
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Brandon

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Re: School Zone restricted hours and no turn on red exceptions
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2009, 02:19:59 PM »

In Laramie we have an intersection with right on red banned during the daytime because there's a diagonal pedestrian crossing and you'd hit peds by turning right on red

Aren't there pedestrians at night?
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Alex

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Re: School Zone restricted hours and no turn on red exceptions
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2009, 02:43:18 PM »

Most zones in Florida are accompanied by a yellow beacon that flashes when they are in effect. If there are no flashers with the signs, times (morning and afternoon) are displayed. I have seen the "when children present" signs before, but they are not used in Florida.

There are sometimes turning restrictions at intersections that coincide with the school zone. These generally do not apply outside of the school zone hours.

School zone times generally extend an hour or so before and after the actual dismissal or arrival time. I suppose this is for late arrivals or kids that hang around the school grounds for awhile before heading home.
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agentsteel53

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Re: School Zone restricted hours and no turn on red exceptions
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2009, 02:54:48 PM »


Aren't there pedestrians at night?

maybe the diagonal is not available at night?  or, alternately, there is so little traffic (vehicle and pedestrian) that the driver of a right-turning vehicle can make a judgement call and turn safely.
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74/171FAN

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Re: School Zone restricted hours and no turn on red exceptions
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2009, 03:17:43 PM »

All the ones I've seen in VA also have the "when flashing" on them with the exception of one school on VA 106 in Prince George County where there's none of those but the speed limit goes down to 35 right before the school as it's just east of the courthouse
« Last Edit: November 14, 2009, 10:16:16 AM by 74/171FAN »
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corco

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Re: School Zone restricted hours and no turn on red exceptions
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2009, 03:35:53 PM »

Quote
Aren't there pedestrians at night?

maybe the diagonal is not available at night?  or, alternately, there is so little traffic (vehicle and pedestrian) that the driver of a right-turning vehicle can make a judgement call and turn safely.

The latter- it's the crosswalk between the dorms and campus- once classes are over it's not used that often

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Re: School Zone restricted hours and no turn on red exceptions
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2009, 04:48:30 PM »

The ones in my city are all "School - Speed Limit 25 When Flashing", with a radar speed check display.

They must have an internal clock but apparently they don't have the school year in any way programmed in. They still flash at the appropriate times all through July and August and on holidays. Not on weekends, though, at least.

Also, some of these things are on streets where the speed limit is already 25 regardless of the hour or location. :spin:
Ah well, they still remind you how fast you're going, at least.

The best part, though, is the fact that these are all fairly new, and the old signs with conflicting info are still up in some places. So, you'll see "School - Speed Limit 25 When Flashing" followed right up by "School - Speed Limit 30" (note to self: get a picture of this)
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agentsteel53

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Re: School Zone restricted hours and no turn on red exceptions
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2009, 04:55:00 PM »

the worst is the kind where several intervals of restriction are listed, all in 2" high letters.

"If you cannot read all of this, figure out what time zone you're in, note whether the current state observes Daylight Savings Time, wonder if there is an exemption for federal holidays, and check the tree 600 yards away for small children - or a police car - all in the interval before you get to this sign ... you're going too fast!"
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Re: School Zone restricted hours and no turn on red exceptions
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2009, 05:31:36 PM »

I've seen hours posted in some areas and the flashing beacons in some areas in Georgia. In Tucker, an Atlanta suburb, I saw "Army" time hours posted. Confusing for those unfamiliar with it.


Be well,

Bryant
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Re: School Zone restricted hours and no turn on red exceptions
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2009, 07:09:03 PM »

can make a judgement call and turn safely.
I know you aren't talking about California. :-D :-D :-D
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jjakucyk

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Re: School Zone restricted hours and no turn on red exceptions
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2009, 08:25:23 PM »

Here in Cincinnati, and many of the surrounding 'burbs, the school speed limit is displayed with the flashing yellow lights, as such:



The turn restrictions here are usually "No Turn On Red:  7AM to 4PM On School Days"  I much prefer the ones back in Illinois "No Turn On Red:  On School Days When Children Are Present"  That gives you an out when it makes sense. 

We also have many of those "No Turn On Red:  Except Curb Lane" where there's multiple right turn lanes. 

My favorite though has to be the the surprisingly common number of STOP signs with a supplementary "Except Right Turn" signs we have here. 
http://maps.google.com/maps?gl=us&om=0&ie=UTF8&ll=39.154666,-84.484938&spn=0,359.995118&z=18&layer=c&cbll=39.154719,-84.485028&panoid=HHlhCye0NzOP5QA1ziNk7Q&cbp=12,29.25,,0,8.67
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agentsteel53

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Re: School Zone restricted hours and no turn on red exceptions
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2009, 08:45:02 PM »

Here in Cincinnati, and many of the surrounding 'burbs, the school speed limit is displayed with the flashing yellow lights, as such:

[animated image]


whoa, that's a GIF file?  Did they add 24-bit capacity to GIF files when I was not looking, or is that just a really well-optimized palette?
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jjakucyk

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Re: School Zone restricted hours and no turn on red exceptions
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2009, 08:48:20 PM »

It's a 256-color perceptual palette with noise dithering from Photoshop CS3 (not one of the GIF presets, but all available through the pull-down menus).
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Re: School Zone restricted hours and no turn on red exceptions
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2009, 09:01:17 PM »

My favorite though has to be the the surprisingly common number of STOP signs with a supplementary "Except Right Turn" signs we have here. 

I saw a sign like that for the first time in southwest Atlanta. I thought it was weird, but it makes sense. If you click the link below, you'll see the odd angle of the street.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Barge+Road+SW+&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=33.847644,74.179688&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Barge+Rd+SW,+Atlanta,+Fulton,+Georgia+30331&ll=33.678354,-84.506192&spn=0,359.98189&z=16&layer=c&cbll=33.67843,-84.506262&panoid=dRWwfmHRB8pXf-5nJzU9Yg&cbp=12,336.9,,0,10.53


Be well,

Bryant
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Re: School Zone restricted hours and no turn on red exceptions
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2009, 09:13:12 PM »

It's a 256-color perceptual palette with noise dithering from Photoshop CS3 (not one of the GIF presets, but all available through the pull-down menus).

certainly does the job!  :sombrero:
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Re: School Zone restricted hours and no turn on red exceptions
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2009, 09:29:43 PM »

In middle TN, most school zone speed limit signs have flashing lights for when they're in force.

The ones that don't say "When Children are Present."

The annoying thing down here is that they place school zone speed limit signs anywhere that is even remotely near a school.  Once such zone on Hillsborough Rd. in northern Williamson County has the flashing lights but the school is about 200 yards from the road!

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=Franklin,+Williamson,+Tennessee&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=50.910968,114.169922&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=FUgsJAIdZnzS-g&split=0&hq=&hnear=Franklin,+Williamson,+Tennessee&ll=36.009443,-86.88801&spn=0.00322,0.006968&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=36.009689,-86.888122&panoid=MwfjKUjkNaaHKocvra0b7w&cbp=12,38.71,,0,4.52

That the school way in the back on the right!
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Re: School Zone restricted hours and no turn on red exceptions
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2009, 10:38:11 PM »

In Pennsylvania, there is a similar signal/sign to which jjakucyk posted, except the bottom of the sign reads "WHEN FLASHING".
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Re: School Zone restricted hours and no turn on red exceptions
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2009, 10:39:34 PM »

My favorite though has to be the the surprisingly common number of STOP signs with a supplementary "Except Right Turn" signs we have here. 

I saw a sign like that for the first time in southwest Atlanta. I thought it was weird, but it makes sense. If you click the link below, you'll see the odd angle of the street.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Barge+Road+SW+&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=33.847644,74.179688&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Barge+Rd+SW,+Atlanta,+Fulton,+Georgia+30331&ll=33.678354,-84.506192&spn=0,359.98189&z=16&layer=c&cbll=33.67843,-84.506262&panoid=dRWwfmHRB8pXf-5nJzU9Yg&cbp=12,336.9,,0,10.53


Be well,

Bryant

Pennsylvania loves those! I see them everywhere around the commonwealth! Here is an example right near my house:
http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&hl=en&ll=39.904732,-75.394857&spn=0,359.98866&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=39.904777,-75.394984&panoid=eJYnhpNttpXQnDH0v98_Eg&cbp=12,158.76,,0,10.02
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Re: School Zone restricted hours and no turn on red exceptions
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2009, 11:24:53 PM »

Quote
In middle TN, most school zone speed limit signs have flashing lights for when they're in force.

The ones that don't say "When Children are Present."

How does TN define "When Children are Present"?  California defines it as anytime that a child is present anywhere on the campus, i.e. during the entire school day!    :confused:

That definition has never made sense to me -- the only time a car would endanger children is if the children were near the roadway, such as at the beginning or ending of the school day.  I would much prefer to have the flashing beacons used in other states.
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Truvelo

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Re: School Zone restricted hours and no turn on red exceptions
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2009, 07:44:16 AM »

It's a 256-color perceptual palette with noise dithering from Photoshop CS3 (not one of the GIF presets, but all available through the pull-down menus).

certainly does the job!  :sombrero:

I cheated a little with the one on my website here. If you scroll down to the third picture and drag the mouse over it with the left button pressed you'll see I broke the picture down into smaller sections and used tables to form the picture. That way only the section with the flashing lights is a .gif while the rest is still a 24bit .jpg :)
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Re: School Zone restricted hours and no turn on red exceptions
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2009, 05:19:32 PM »

I don't get it but we keep the school-zone signals all day in N.E TN. When I lived in FL as a kid, we never did that :banghead: :paranoid: :pan:
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