AARoads Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Congrats to corco, who won our last trivia on July 15! Stay tuned for our next edition.

Author Topic: Top 100 Congested Metro areas  (Read 5032 times)

Revive 755

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2159
  • Last Login: September 30, 2014, 08:28:51 PM
Top 100 Congested Metro areas
« on: February 24, 2010, 01:35:46 PM »

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-02-22-inside-congestion_N.htm

Not sure how Pittsburgh, PA is less congested than St. Louis, since the former seems to have at least one non-moving freeway at any time of day.

Harrisburg-Carlisle also seems like it should be much higher on the list, given the overloaded US 11 between the Ripoff and I-81, plus how badly I-83 performs during rush hour.
Logged

Scott5114

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 5319
  • Age: 24
  • Location: Norman, OK
  • Last Login: September 30, 2014, 03:31:34 AM
    • scott5114.name
Re: Top 100 Congested Metro areas
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2010, 04:09:14 PM »

And considering how the Tulsa meet went, I'm not sure how OKC is more congested than Tulsa...
Logged
Quindaropedia: the authority on Alanland.

corco

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3771
  • Just Livin' the Dream

  • Age: 26
  • Location: Helena, Montana
  • Last Login: Today at 01:41:11 AM
    • Corcohighways.org
Re: Top 100 Congested Metro areas
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2010, 04:30:59 PM »

Quote
And considering how the Tulsa meet went, I'm not sure how OKC is more congested than Tulsa...

I don't know if Tulsa is congested so much as hilariously poorly designed, under construction, with drivers that seem to take pride in being douchebags for no visible reason. The three combine for a difficult driving experience, especially for someone completely unfamiliar with the area- Having now done both, I'd rather drive in Chicago traffic than Tulsa traffic.

Even Dallas (I was there the day before, also completely unfamiliar with the area) was significantly easier to navigate- the drivers there were good too, they were fast, but operated in a predictable manner, which is awesome. Plus, the roadways and interchanges were designed in a manner resembling sanity
« Last Edit: February 24, 2010, 04:46:19 PM by corco »
Logged

Riverside Frwy

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 223
  • California State Route 91 - The Riverside Freeway

  • Location: Corona, CA
  • Last Login: June 15, 2013, 02:47:02 AM
Re: Top 100 Congested Metro areas
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2010, 06:53:27 PM »

The Los Angeles area wouldn't be so congested if Trans officials would just tell the NIMBYs to shove it and build, build, build. Although massive, the LA Metro has so many uncompleted freeways and holes/gaps in the system it's almost a joke.

EDIT:Here is a perfect example, the CA-90 Marina Fwy.It was originally suppose to extend all the way to CA 91 in Yorba Linda, but the NIMBYs killed it.

Now look, this huge, perfectly good interchange with I-405 is now going to waste(and going no where) because a few people were crying over their houses.

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=33.985716,-118.403606&spn=0.041776,0.087719&t=h&z=14
« Last Edit: February 24, 2010, 06:59:22 PM by Riverside Frwy »
Logged

TheStranger

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2519
  • Last Login: Today at 02:51:43 AM
Re: Top 100 Congested Metro areas
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2010, 07:23:44 PM »


Now look, this huge, perfectly good interchange with I-405 is now going to waste(and going no where) because a few people were crying over their houses.

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=33.985716,-118.403606&spn=0.041776,0.087719&t=h&z=14

Considering how protracted and hotly debated I-105 ultimately was, in a similarly built-up urban corridor...Although I have always been a fan of building routes whenever possible, there has to be some thought given to those who already live in the area, who will be displaced.  (This doesn't even begin to consider such obligations nowadays like EISes...)

For that matter, that's exactly why if and when the 710 extension is finished, CalTrans will be building a tunnel under South Pasadena...

Logged
Chris Sampang

SSOWorld

  • No, the other one
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1656
  • Interstate <Make up your mind!>

  • Age: 41
  • Location: Back in the great white north
  • Last Login: September 30, 2014, 09:07:52 PM
Re: Top 100 Congested Metro areas
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2010, 07:38:24 PM »

Not sure how Pittsburgh, PA is less congested than St. Louis, since the former seems to have at least one non-moving freeway at any time of day.
The Poplar Street Bridge?
Logged
Give me a car and some roads - I'll just go where the car takes me.
Raise your what?

Scott O.
Website not available at this time...
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/ssoworld-roads/

Did I leave the Tridyminiumobulator on?

Scott5114

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 5319
  • Age: 24
  • Location: Norman, OK
  • Last Login: September 30, 2014, 03:31:34 AM
    • scott5114.name
Re: Top 100 Congested Metro areas
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2010, 09:21:04 PM »

Not sure how Pittsburgh, PA is less congested than St. Louis, since the former seems to have at least one non-moving freeway at any time of day.
The Poplar Street Bridge?

The PSB is actually rather okay at most times of the day. It just tends to be a bottleneck in cases of rush hour traffic and construction.
Logged
Quindaropedia: the authority on Alanland.

Scott5114

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 5319
  • Age: 24
  • Location: Norman, OK
  • Last Login: September 30, 2014, 03:31:34 AM
    • scott5114.name
Re: Top 100 Congested Metro areas
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2010, 09:42:28 PM »

Quote
And considering how the Tulsa meet went, I'm not sure how OKC is more congested than Tulsa...

I don't know if Tulsa is congested so much as hilariously poorly designed, under construction, with drivers that seem to take pride in being douchebags for no visible reason. The three combine for a difficult driving experience, especially for someone completely unfamiliar with the area- Having now done both, I'd rather drive in Chicago traffic than Tulsa traffic.

True. Most of Tulsa's freeway system is built to 1960s or early 1970s standards. Hopefully after all of the construction is done driving in Tulsa will be more pleasant.
Logged
Quindaropedia: the authority on Alanland.

Riverside Frwy

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 223
  • California State Route 91 - The Riverside Freeway

  • Location: Corona, CA
  • Last Login: June 15, 2013, 02:47:02 AM
Re: Top 100 Congested Metro areas
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2010, 10:32:37 PM »


Now look, this huge, perfectly good interchange with I-405 is now going to waste(and going no where) because a few people were crying over their houses.

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=33.985716,-118.403606&spn=0.041776,0.087719&t=h&z=14

Considering how protracted and hotly debated I-105 ultimately was, in a similarly built-up urban corridor...Although I have always been a fan of building routes whenever possible, there has to be some thought given to those who already live in the area, who will be displaced.  (This doesn't even begin to consider such obligations nowadays like EISes...)

For that matter, that's exactly why if and when the 710 extension is finished, CalTrans will be building a tunnel under South Pasadena...



Don't get me wrong, I care about the people.

Think about it though.To get to Pasadena from lets say Long Beach, I have to go *all* the way around down I-605 to I-210 when I could just take I-710 straight shot *if* it was completed.I shouldn't have to add 20 unnecessary minutes to my trip just to save a few houses.Plus, it's not like they are just kicking them out.The government would give them money for their land/house anyway, so I don't see what the big deal is.

Pasadena is lucky I'm not governor, because I would tell them to shove it and blow Pasadena off the map with a 14 lane freeway that would rip the city apart just so they could pay for all the inconvenience they've caused. :-P :-D

EDIT: Heck, I would then rename what's left of the city as "I-710dena"  :happy:
« Last Edit: February 24, 2010, 11:05:36 PM by Riverside Frwy »
Logged

deathtopumpkins

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2029
  • Age: 21
  • Location: Boston, Massachusetts
  • Last Login: September 20, 2014, 10:21:38 AM
    • Rambling Bostonian blog
Re: Top 100 Congested Metro areas
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2010, 11:09:37 PM »

There are a lot more reasons those people won't move than just money. Many are attached to their houses, or just can't comprehend moving. It's more of a matter of principle than money.

You are truly a horrible person. Would you really think like that if someone wanted to build a freeway and YOUR house was in the way?

agentsteel53

  • invisible hand
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 15276
  • long live button copy!

  • Age: 33
  • Location: San Diego, CA
  • Last Login: September 30, 2014, 10:30:59 PM
    • AARoads Shield Gallery
Re: Top 100 Congested Metro areas
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2010, 11:13:49 PM »


You are truly a horrible person. Would you really think like that if someone wanted to build a freeway and YOUR house was in the way?

I'd milk it for the largest settlement I could. 
Logged

TheStranger

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2519
  • Last Login: Today at 02:51:43 AM
Re: Top 100 Congested Metro areas
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2010, 11:18:38 PM »


Think about it though.To get to Pasadena from lets say Long Beach, I have to go *all* the way around down I-605 to I-210 when I could just take I-710 straight shot *if* it was completed.

Or you could use the surface streets (Pasadena Avenue and Fremont Avenue) that connect the two sections of 710 together, if you want the most direct route...210-605 is only one option (though, probably would have been a lot better had 19/164 been built as a freeway as well).

Shifting back on topic...since I've gotten the impression that the 710 gap, once filled, would be part of an eastern bypass route for I-5 north-south traffic (using 210 between Pasadena and San Fernando/Sylmar)...how much would existing north-south commutes that have to pass through downtown (i.e. 170/101, or 5) be improved?  Is there much Orange County/eastern SFV traffic at present?

Quote from: agentsteel53
I'd milk it for the largest settlement I could.

Isn't that actually what held up parts of I-105 in the 1980s, those looking to get as much of a settlement as they could by staying as long as possible?
Logged
Chris Sampang

Revive 755

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2159
  • Last Login: September 30, 2014, 08:28:51 PM
Re: Top 100 Congested Metro areas
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2010, 12:22:14 AM »

The PSB is actually rather okay at most times of the day. It just tends to be a bottleneck in cases of rush hour traffic and construction.

At least since I-64 reopened.  During the I-64 closure the NB I-55 ramp was backing up 90% of the time.  Around 20:20ish the other day the SB I-55 ramp nearly quit moving at a point before it split from the mainline.

I've just heard tonight that EB I-70 apparently has been backing up outside of rush hour near the end of the reversible lanes, between the reopening of I-64 and the recent closing of the reversibles for overpass replacements.  I can't recall any other really bad spots outside of rush hour, plus I think another month or two is needed to see how traffic patterns settle due to the reopening of I-64.  Though some of the coming projects for I-270 may cause new congestion or shift traffic patterns, particularly the coming bridge rehabs near I-44 - which MoDOT somehow expects traffic to shift to an already overloaded at I-44 during rush hours MO 141:
http://www.modot.org/stlouis/Interstate270bridges.htm

I still say Pittsburgh is worse; the Squirrel Hill Tunnel easily seems to be more congested than the PSB when I've had to use that tunnel.

Quote from: DeathToPumpkins
Would you really think like that if someone wanted to build a freeway and YOUR house was in the way?

I'm biased since I've had to suffer a somewhat similar condition due to the lack of I-170's extension to I-55, but there is a certain point where only a freeway extension will work the best, and further takings cannot be avoided.  So I'd focus on getting a good settlement and finding a place to live better than what I had.  Plus if I'm staying in the same area, I'm likely to get at least some benefit from the freeway; sure I might have to drive a mile or two just to get on, but other miles of it surely would provide a faster drive to somewhere.

And there are cities that can be ridiculously obstructive.  Richmond Heights, MO, tried to seriously delay the I-64 reconstruction in court due to loosing some houses for the braided ramps to Bellevue (which were changed to a C-D/outer road type setup to reduce costs) even though they have no problem removing residents for a commercial development.
Logged

Riverside Frwy

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 223
  • California State Route 91 - The Riverside Freeway

  • Location: Corona, CA
  • Last Login: June 15, 2013, 02:47:02 AM
Re: Top 100 Congested Metro areas
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2010, 01:08:09 AM »

There are a lot more reasons those people won't move than just money. Many are attached to their houses, or just can't comprehend moving. It's more of a matter of principle than money.

You are truly a horrible person. Would you really think like that if someone wanted to build a freeway and YOUR house was in the way?

1)I was joking.Stop taking it up the butt.

2)I'm all for freeway construction anyway so I honestly wouldn't mind.

3)I live like a mile or 2 Northwest of the CA-91/I-15 Interchange.So unless they are planning to build something *right* next to a perfectly good interchange, there is zero chance of them building a new freeway where I'm at.(and if they were, please refer to #2)

4)Calling me a horrible person was a little uncalled for.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2010, 01:11:20 AM by Riverside Frwy »
Logged

agentsteel53

  • invisible hand
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 15276
  • long live button copy!

  • Age: 33
  • Location: San Diego, CA
  • Last Login: September 30, 2014, 10:30:59 PM
    • AARoads Shield Gallery
Re: Top 100 Congested Metro areas
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2010, 01:12:00 AM »

1)I was joking.Stop taking it up the butt.


okay, you're officially being warned for your verbal outbursts.  If you want to jaw off at the moderators, please get yourself promoted to admin first.
Logged

bugo

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 4104
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Oklahoma
  • Last Login: Today at 02:31:32 AM
Re: Top 100 Congested Metro areas
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2010, 01:24:13 AM »

Quote
And considering how the Tulsa meet went, I'm not sure how OKC is more congested than Tulsa...

I don't know if Tulsa is congested so much as hilariously poorly designed, under construction, with drivers that seem to take pride in being douchebags for no visible reason. The three combine for a difficult driving experience, especially for someone completely unfamiliar with the area- Having now done both, I'd rather drive in Chicago traffic than Tulsa traffic.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

I was in Little Rock over the weekend, and the difference in the quality of drivers is striking.  It was so much more relaxing being in LR.  Even I-40 drivers got better once I got into Arkansas.
Logged
Chlanna nan con thigibh a so's gheibh sibh feoil

bugo

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 4104
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Oklahoma
  • Last Login: Today at 02:31:32 AM
Re: Top 100 Congested Metro areas
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2010, 01:25:25 AM »

Quote
And considering how the Tulsa meet went, I'm not sure how OKC is more congested than Tulsa...

I don't know if Tulsa is congested so much as hilariously poorly designed, under construction, with drivers that seem to take pride in being douchebags for no visible reason. The three combine for a difficult driving experience, especially for someone completely unfamiliar with the area- Having now done both, I'd rather drive in Chicago traffic than Tulsa traffic.

I couldn't have said it better myself.
I've actually made the exact quote "I'd rather drive in Chicago than Tulsa".
Logged
Chlanna nan con thigibh a so's gheibh sibh feoil

bugo

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 4104
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Oklahoma
  • Last Login: Today at 02:31:32 AM
Re: Top 100 Congested Metro areas
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2010, 01:27:44 AM »

Quote
And considering how the Tulsa meet went, I'm not sure how OKC is more congested than Tulsa...

I don't know if Tulsa is congested so much as hilariously poorly designed, under construction, with drivers that seem to take pride in being douchebags for no visible reason. The three combine for a difficult driving experience, especially for someone completely unfamiliar with the area- Having now done both, I'd rather drive in Chicago traffic than Tulsa traffic.

True. Most of Tulsa's freeway system is built to 1960s or early 1970s standards. Hopefully after all of the construction is done driving in Tulsa will be more pleasant.
Driving on the eight lane BA (Broken Arrow Expressway, OK 51) east of I-44 is pretty pleasant because it was upgraded recently.  I-44 however is a death trap.  The fatality we drove past, strangely enough, happened on the upgraded 6 lane section of I-44.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2010, 01:29:20 AM by bugo »
Logged
Chlanna nan con thigibh a so's gheibh sibh feoil

Riverside Frwy

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 223
  • California State Route 91 - The Riverside Freeway

  • Location: Corona, CA
  • Last Login: June 15, 2013, 02:47:02 AM
Re: Top 100 Congested Metro areas
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2010, 01:30:47 AM »

1)I was joking.Stop taking it up the butt.


okay, you're officially being warned for your verbal outbursts.  If you want to jaw off at the moderators, please get yourself promoted to admin first.



I wasn't trying to "jaw off" or disrespect anyone.He was the one who took my joke to heart and then called me a horrible person, please.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2010, 01:32:51 AM by Riverside Frwy »
Logged

agentsteel53

  • invisible hand
  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 15276
  • long live button copy!

  • Age: 33
  • Location: San Diego, CA
  • Last Login: September 30, 2014, 10:30:59 PM
    • AARoads Shield Gallery
Re: Top 100 Congested Metro areas
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2010, 01:46:29 AM »


[picture: Captain Jean-Luc Picard of the USS Enterprise]

I wasn't trying to "jaw off" or disrespect anyone.He was the one who took my joke to heart and then called me a horrible person, please.

okay, you're officially being warned for posting the ubiquitous Picard photo.

can you please elevate the quality of your snark by about six standard deviations?  From a reference to anal sex, to a worn-out internet picture meme... what's next, a cat and a poorly spelled caption? 
Logged

Chris

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1807
  • International road enthusiast

  • Age: 27
  • Location: the Netherlands
  • Last Login: September 30, 2014, 04:57:29 PM
    • Flickr
Re: Top 100 Congested Metro areas
« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2010, 03:19:33 AM »

Baton Rouge is bad apparently, the metro area of ~770,000 is followed by several 1 million + and even some 2 million + metro areas which have less congestion.

Riverside Frwy

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 223
  • California State Route 91 - The Riverside Freeway

  • Location: Corona, CA
  • Last Login: June 15, 2013, 02:47:02 AM
Re: Top 100 Congested Metro areas
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2010, 09:49:45 AM »


[picture: Captain Jean-Luc Picard of the USS Enterprise]

I wasn't trying to "jaw off" or disrespect anyone.He was the one who took my joke to heart and then called me a horrible person, please.

okay, you're officially being warned for posting the ubiquitous Picard photo.

can you please elevate the quality of your snark by about six standard deviations?  From a reference to anal sex, to a worn-out internet picture meme... what's next, a cat and a poorly spelled caption?  

 :banghead:
 :ded:

Ok, why are you turning everything I say into something wrong? It's like you are trying to get me trouble....I'm not trying to do anything. What is up that? I don't know what else to say. It seems if I say anything you are going give me a warning.The Images and gifs are all in good fun.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2010, 09:52:14 AM by Riverside Frwy »
Logged

Scott5114

  • *
  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 5319
  • Age: 24
  • Location: Norman, OK
  • Last Login: September 30, 2014, 03:31:34 AM
    • scott5114.name
Re: Top 100 Congested Metro areas
« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2010, 10:20:54 AM »

dtp: Calling someone a "horrible person" for being enthusiastic about freeway construction on a road forum is a bit hyperbolic.

Riverside Freeway: Implying that someone that disagrees with you enjoys anal sex is unacceptable because, first, it's an inappropriate response to legitimate disagreement. It also implies that being into that kind of thing is an insult, which is unacceptable because we have several gay members here and we'd like to ensure they continue to feel welcome here. What Jake posted with regards to the Picard photo is intended as a humorously-worded request to be a bit more witty and original...you are not being warned for posting the Picard photo. If you have any further questions please PM a mod, don't post here, lest we have to lock the topic.

agentsteel53: Please refer to the Bravo Document and perform the shift reset.


Damn, I've been having to break out the purple tags a lot lately.
Logged
Quindaropedia: the authority on Alanland.

J N Winkler

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 4139
  • Location: Wichita, Kansas/Oxford, Great Britain
  • Last Login: September 30, 2014, 10:25:19 PM
Re: Top 100 Congested Metro areas
« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2010, 10:44:00 AM »

Regarding the I-710 gap, a few thoughts:

*  I was under the impression that Caltrans had already acquired most of the houses that would need to be demolished in order to build the length of freeway required to close the gap.  Thus, most of those likely to be displaced by the freeway would be renters, not homeowners.  Renters do have interests that need to be considered, but in general they know up front that they have neither equity nor security of tenure in the properties they inhabit, and this is the tradeoff for not having to carry a mortgage or accept responsibility for upkeep and repairs.

*  Caltrans has been criticized by the BSA on a number of occasions for failing to keep the 710 corridor properties in good repair.

*  The main obstacle is that South Pasadena will not sign a freeway agreement.  Caltrans has had since 1982, continuously except for a brief period in the early 1990's, the legal authority to build the freeway without a freeway agreement with South Pasadena.  It is my intuition that Caltrans did not seek this authority and regards the exercise of it as a major poison pill, and that South Pasadena has been exploiting this for years (decades?) to obstruct the freeway by refusing to sign a freeway agreement.

*  Since the southern stub of I-710 is a good bit east of the northern stub of I-710, the surface street routings between the two are far from obvious to stranger drivers, including so-called "local stranger" drivers who do not have commutes in the I-710 corridor.

*  Personally I think the I-710 gap should be closed, but not because this would reduce congestion overall.  It is my belief that the elasticity of traffic volume with respect to available roadspace is so high in the Los Angeles basin generally that the gap closure would rapidly become as congested as any other freeway in LA.  Rather, it should be built to improve access to the freeway network in the areas through which it would pass, and also to supply added redundancy for I-5 and other north-south freeways.  It is unrealistic to remove congestion altogether from LA freeways, but maintaining and improving journey time reliability is certainly a reasonable goal.

*  I am very skeptical of the tunnel plan.  Caltrans has said that sale of the properties already acquired for the surface routing would suffice to pay the state share of the tunnel's construction costs, but this claim was made before the real-estate bust, and I am not aware that it has been affirmed since.  Moreover, I think Caltrans underestimates the cost of a tunnel facility having the lane count originally projected for the surface routing.  On the other hand, I think the cost of the tunnel and the likely proceeds of the house sales are at least within the same order of magnitude.  My suspicion is that the tunnel plan is part of a Caltrans gambit to get South Pasadena to relax its opposition to a freeway agreement, and that Caltrans envisions a series of landscaped deck lids rather than a long bored tunnel along the lines of A86 Versailles.

*  Has anyone given any thought to the fact that the I-710 gap closure will cross the Arroyo Seco Parkway (SR 110) corridor and what connections, if any, should be provided to it?  The Arroyo Seco these days is more a historic resource than a transportation corridor, so I think it would be perfectly acceptable for I-710 to pass under it without any connections, but I can see the roadgeeks of the future yammering about the I-710/SR 110 "missing ramps."
Logged
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

J N Winkler

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 4139
  • Location: Wichita, Kansas/Oxford, Great Britain
  • Last Login: September 30, 2014, 10:25:19 PM
Re: Top 100 Congested Metro areas
« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2010, 10:47:31 AM »

agentsteel53: Please refer to the Bravo Document and perform the shift reset.

¿Qué es esta?

Quote
Damn, I've been having to break out the purple tags a lot lately.

It's that time of year!
Logged
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini
 


Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.