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[codyg1985]

The Birmingham MPO has voted to scrap planning for the western portion of the $3 billion Birmingham Northern Beltline from I-59 in Bessemer to US 78 in Graysville.  If this road is being built for economic development, then this is a poor call IMO since that area of Jefferson County is the most rural and poor. It would also prove to be a good bypass route for traffic going from I-65 north of town to I-20/59 southwest of town, and vice versa.

Birmingham-area plan would drop 40 road projects for lack of funds

[leifvanderwall]

I've only been through Birmingham a few times on I-65 and I had no problem getting through the downtown area and I'm not sure if the Northern Beltline is needed. Also, what's with these 3di branches of interstates that do not exist yet. There is this I-422 planned when I-22 has not even come into fruition yet ?It's the same thing going on at Memphis with a 3DI for I-69 and I-69 isn't even close to existing in the South.

[Revive 755]

The Birmingham MPO has voted to scrap planning for the western portion of the $3 billion Birmingham Northern Beltline from I-59 in Bessemer to US 78 in Graysville.  If this road is being built for economic development, then this is a poor call IMO since that area of Jefferson County is the most rural and poor. It would also prove to be a good bypass route for traffic going from I-65 north of town to I-20/59 southwest of town, and vice versa.

Birmingham-area plan would drop 40 road projects for lack of funds

Sound more like a delaying action than completely scrapping it to me, since it's on the 'projects we would do if the money was there list.'

Fixed quote tag - Alex

[The Premier]

I have been to Birmingham every few years to meet my grandparents.

If this road is being built for economic development, then this is a poor call IMO since that area of Jefferson County is the most rural and poor.

Agreed.

Another issue is whether or not those cities will allow the beltway to be built, and whether or not the taxpayers, especially in the Birmingham area want to pay for it. That will be something officials there will have to keep in mind.

[jdb1234]

The Birmingham MPO has voted to scrap planning for the western portion of the $3 billion Birmingham Northern Beltline from I-59 in Bessemer to US 78 in Graysville.  If this road is being built for economic development, then this is a poor call IMO since that area of Jefferson County is the most rural and poor. It would also prove to be a good bypass route for traffic going from I-65 north of town to I-20/59 southwest of town, and vice versa.

Birmingham-area plan would drop 40 road projects for lack of funds

Agreed here, also going from Graysville to Bessemer is a pain in the neck.  The the part from I-65 to I-59 near Trussville is needed badly.

[froggie]

If you want a truly good bypass route, you have to limit the access points, which runs counter to using the road to "promote economic development" (which IMO is not a valid reason to be spending scarce transportation dollars on a new road).  Can't have it both ways.

Also, how many people really need to get between Graysville and Bessemer?  Is it worth spending $1 billion (which would likely be Federal money since Alabama is too cheap to use their own money) for such a route?

Since you already have a pretty good road that exists for a good stretch...CR 65/Minor Pkwy, I'd think if you really want to improve Graysville-Bessemer travel, you'd use Minor Pkwy as a baseline...improve the connection north to I-22 then figure out a way to bypass Hobson and tie into I-20/59, and you have an effective minor arterial that will address Graysville-Bessemer travel and much less cost than building that segment of the Northern Beltline.

Meanwhile, widening 20/59 and fixing Malfunction Junction would take care of most of the need for the northern beltline as a bypass route.  And would be much cheaper to boot.

[bugo]

I've only been through Birmingham a few times on I-65 and I had no problem getting through the downtown area and I'm not sure if the Northern Beltline is needed. Also, what's with these 3di branches of interstates that do not exist yet. There is this I-422 planned when I-22 has not even come into fruition yet ?It's the same thing going on at Memphis with a 3DI for I-69 and I-69 isn't even close to existing in the South.

I-69 exists in Mississippi. It's not continuous with the other I-69(s) but it exists just the same.

[leifvanderwall]

In my opinion, that short stubby 69 in Mississippi should still be just MS 304. 69 signing in Mississippi is very premature and I think it confuses the Mississippi drivers. Until the funding is there to change US 61 and US 51 into interstate grade roads, 69 should not be signed in Mississippi.

[froggie]

It doesn't confuse Mississippi drivers.  They know the difference between an Interstate and a non-Interstate.

[Tourian]

I've only been through Birmingham a few times on I-65 and I had no problem getting through the downtown area and I'm not sure if the Northern Beltline is needed.

I suppose it could be argued several different ways, but to me every city this size or larger needs a complete loop - it automatically takes stress off of the center intersection downtown which is - in our case, "Malfunction Junction." It would also mean less big trucks mixing it up with commuters in the same area - those guys would be required to go around unless they are delivering down there.

Now, with that said, looking at the route it seems to be huge and way out of the way. The area it encompasses is over twice as large as the area surrounded by I-459. I think this has a lot to do with it just being tough to get right of way and the fact that the people that own this land want to get paid a fat wad of cash to see it come through their property. So yeah, it probably isn't the best route for the city and traffic, but it will still solve some problems and stimulate the economy in those areas. Gas stations, then truck stops, then fast food, then hotels, the restaurants, apartment complexes, subdivisions and so on...

Has any portion of it even begun construction yet? I'd heard the segment between highways 75 and 79 was first, but I haven't heard anything more about it.

[Scott5114]

It's probably better to call I-69 in MS I-69 now, when it's just opened, instead of calling it MS 304, then when it gets connected to I-69 proper, still have all the local morons going around calling it MS 304.

[agentsteel53]

69, yes?  22, no?  Absolutely awful justification for signing one but not the other ("because Alabama can't build four miles of road, and Tennessee can't build six")

[jdb1234]

69, yes?  22, no?  Absolutely awful justification for signing one but not the other ("because Alabama can't build four miles of road, and Tennessee can't build six")

Actually, construction on Alabama's final segment of I-22 should be underway later this year.

[Tourian]

This PBS special highlights many of the CONS for the northern belt line:
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/blueprintamerica/reports/zombie-highways/overview/782/

I can totally understand where these guys are coming from but it seems obvious to me that "some" kind of road is needed. And I disagree that the CONS presented in this piece that claim these are good reasons not to build it.

On the economic side of it, the reporter points out that Alabama has received more dollars then they have given out and that whatever official he was talking about was lying about it (who then covered his tracks by saying Jefferson County was a donor, not Alabama). I say, who cares? Alabama is a poor state with not a huge tax base compared to say, Texas or California. How in the world would we ever have enough tax dollars to out gross them? Of course we get more federal money. Do they expect us to somehow build interstates for half price down here?

Then the environmentalist comes on and says it will pollute the rivers much like 459 has done to the Cahaba. We have to protect our streams and if a bunch of land gets paved over, like how Patton Creek parking lots have, it keeps rainwater from going through the soil and its aquifers and dumps "raw" rain water into the streams with all is silt and soot that clogs up the streams. Okay, legitimate concern, I'm listening - so whats the plan? Well he said something to the effect of "I'm not against construction that doesn't impact the environment." And that's it. Not, here's how it should be done, or how it could be done, just I don't like how they do it. Might as well have just said he didn't like construction of any kind, really.

Just before that, they had our currently incarcerated former mayor Larry Langford claim we needed to spend that money on mass transit before we build a road we don't need. Of course the woeful Max Bus system is brought up. Some realtor who sells flats downtown talks about streetcars from 60 years ago. Well, just like every other city in the country, lots of people moved to the suburbs and spread out. We still drive cars here in Birmingham. We don't have the population density or culture like New York or Tokyo - we don't need light rail. The buses and taxis we have are enough. People will only ride on those things when its cheaper, faster and easier to do it rather then owning a car and right now owning a car in Birmingham is far more efficient then not having one.

At any rate, from the articles I've read recently it looks like the plan is a go, however it probably won't be done until around 2035 - if that.

[agentsteel53]

Do they expect us to somehow build interstates for half price down here?

no, they expect you to die.

[The Premier]

Right now owning a car in Birmingham is far more efficient then not having one.

At any rate, from the articles I've read recently it looks like the plan is a go, however it probably won't be done until around 2035 - if that.

Hence you have the pollution to contend with. Furthermore, not everyone owns a motor vehicle in Birmingham; my grandmother is one of them. And the bus system in metro Birmingham, as you already mentioned, is broke. So I do believe that funding mass transit is more important than building a northern loop.

Do they expect us to somehow build interstates for half price down here?

No. That's because the tax base is too small and the people who work don't have a decent pay in that state.

Another reason is the politics. One of the persons who commented on that article mentioned about the history of corruption in that state.

[froggie]

The politics plays a big part in why the state's priorities are so out-of-whack.  Along those lines, consider that the Northern Beltline is by far not the only grandiose highway project some people in the state envision...witness the I-85 Extension, West Alabama Interstate, Memphis-Huntsville-Atlanta Interstate, Montgomery Outer Loop, Dothan-to-I-10-connector, etc etc.  Of those, only the last one arguably has any real need.

Alabama also has what I've long noted as an over-reliance on Federal highway funding.  Mississippi put considerable state dollars into their portion of Corridor X, and as a result it's been complete there for over 15 years.  Had Alabama done the same and not been so cheap, we'd probably be talking about "Future I-22" in the past-tense now instead of future-tense.  We'd also arguably have some segments of the Northern Beltline and other roads open by now as well.

[jdb1234]

The bus system in Birmingham is basically only in Jefferson County.  Only one route (the 280 route and it ends at Wal-Mart) goes into Shelby County. 

As Froggie has mentioned, Politics play a huge role in the state's priorities.  It is the reason why nothing has been done on the US 280 corridor.

[codyg1985]

As Froggie has mentioned, Politics play a huge role in the state's priorities.  It is the reason why nothing has been done on the US 280 corridor.

It also has to do with the many Birmingham suburbs putting their own priorities ahead of the regions priorities. I'm looking at you Homewood, Mountain Brook, Vestavia Hills, Cahaba Heights, and Hoover. It isn't just over the US 280 corridor, either.

The bus system in Birmingham is basically only in Jefferson County.  Only one route (the 280 route and it ends at Wal-Mart) goes into Shelby County. 

That is indeed the sad case. I think that one has more to do with Birmingham as a whole instead of the other suburbs. It needs to be more or a sub-regional bus system or a metro system that connects all major spokes of the wheel together.

[jdb1234]

It also has to do with the many Birmingham suburbs putting their own priorities ahead of the regions priorities. I'm looking at you Homewood, Mountain Brook, Vestavia Hills, Cahaba Heights, and Hoover. It isn't just over the US 280 corridor, either.

Don't remind me.  I went with the US 280 example because it was the easiest I could think of (I also live off of US 280).  By the way, Cahaba Heights was annexed into Vestavia Hills several years ago.

That is indeed the sad case. I think that one has more to do with Birmingham as a whole instead of the other suburbs. It needs to be more or a sub-regional bus system or a metro system that connects all major spokes of the wheel together.

As much as I would like to see something like that, it would be easier said than done.  People in my area love their cars too much.  

[Revive 755]

The politics plays a big part in why the state's priorities are so out-of-whack.  Along those lines, consider that the Northern Beltline is by far not the only grandiose highway project some people in the state envision...witness the I-85 Extension, West Alabama Interstate, Memphis-Huntsville-Atlanta Interstate, Montgomery Outer Loop, Dothan-to-I-10-connector, etc etc.  Of those, only the last one arguably has any real need.

Not quite sure if there is not a need for at least part of a Montgomery Outer Loop, as there needs to be a better route for SB I-65 to SB US 231 traffic around Montgomery than the stoplight infested, overloaded (at least the few times I've been on it) US 80/82.

EDIT:  Since when has I-959 been tossed around for the Birmingham Northern Beltline?  I'm not finding anything on the number by searching for it.

[jdb1234]

Not quite sure if there is not a need for at least part of a Montgomery Outer Loop, as there needs to be a better route for SB I-65 to SB US 231 traffic around Montgomery than the stoplight infested, overloaded (at least the few times I've been on it) US 80/82.

Which is why I go I-65 to I-85 to Taylor Rd. to US 231.  South Blvd (US 80/82 AL 21) also goes through a very bad part of Montgomery between I-65 and US 231.

EDIT:  Since when has I-959 been tossed around for the Birmingham Northern Beltline?  I'm not finding anything on the number by searching for it.

I-959 has been tossed around well before I-422 was tossed around.  In ALDOT's 5 year plan it calls the Northen Beltline SR 959.

[froggie]

Not quite sure if there is not a need for at least part of a Montgomery Outer Loop, as there needs to be a better route for SB I-65 to SB US 231 traffic around Montgomery than the stoplight infested, overloaded (at least the few times I've been on it) US 80/82.

Traffic around Montgomery really isn't all that bad, and as jdb suggested there are alternatives.  The "need" isn't so much for an Outer Loop as it is a more overall need for Alabama to actually start practicing some access management and incorporate interchanges at major junctions.

I-959 has been tossed around well before I-422 was tossed around.  In ALDOT's 5 year plan it calls the Northen Beltline SR 959.

That earlier planning was using the AL 959 label (SR 959 as you noted, but effectively AL 959), not I-959.  422 was the first "real Interstate" number proposed.

[The Premier]

The politics plays a big part in why the state's priorities are so out-of-whack.  Along those lines, consider that the Northern Beltline is by far not the only grandiose highway project some people in the state envision...witness the I-85 Extension, West Alabama Interstate, Memphis-Huntsville-Atlanta Interstate, Montgomery Outer Loop, Dothan-to-I-10-connector, etc etc.  Of those, only the last one arguably has any real need.

Not quite sure if there is not a need for at least part of a Montgomery Outer Loop, as there needs to be a better route for SB I-65 to SB US 231 traffic around Montgomery than the stoplight infested, overloaded (at least the few times I've been on it) US 80/82.

Nor any of the other freeways. An I-85 extention and a I-10 connection to Dothan (give or take) IMO would make sense, but there is no real need for any other freeways unless the state focuses on mass transit or use most of its own money, like Mississippi did with U.S. Hwy 78 (Corridor X) as froggie pointed out, instead of relying on federal money, which may not be there to assist them.

[froggie]

An I-85 extention

...doesn't even need to be on the table.  Completing the current plan to 4-lane US 80, plus bypasses of Uniontown and Selma, will more than adequately cover the Meridian-Montgomery corridor.