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[andytom]

It also is interesting that they're using a 4-head signal instead of the 5-head signal that I usually see for FYA.

Around here (Beaverton, OR) they are all 4 head except for the few 3 head ones (either no green arrow or the green arrow and the FYA are both in the same head).

red arrow
yellow arrow
FYA
green arrow

red arrow
yellow arrow
FYA

red arrow
yellow arrow
FYA/green arrow

What's the 5th head for?

--Andy

[roadfro]

It also is interesting that they're using a 4-head signal instead of the 5-head signal that I usually see for FYA.

A typical FYA display uses a 4-section display. New installations under MUTCD must follow this (except where the bi-modal green/FYA arrow option is used).

Back when agencies were examining feasibility of FYA operations, I believe some municipalities looked at retrofitting the old 5-section PPLT displays (doghouse or horizontal/vertical) so that the circular sections would be replaced by arrows (red arrow for red ball, yellow arrow for yellow ball, FYA for green ball)--in essentially an effort to save money by changing lights and lenses in the existing signal head instead of ordering a whole new signal head. In order to do this, however, the signal controller had to be compatible with FYA operations and the signal hardware had to support the flash mode as intended under FYA. I think for many agencies, it was easier to just replace the signal heads with standard FYA equipment.

[realjd]

So looking through google street view, the five head signals weren't what I remembered. I remembered them as being:
RLA YLA FYLA YLA GLA

The ones I have the most experience with are from Texas. Street view shows them as having two red arrows. That is where I got the 5 head signals. I forgot that they double up reds on left turns. The 4 head signals are consistent with what I've seen in the past.

[US71]

As I mentioned elsewhere, Liberty, MO has FYA's in a 3 Lens set-up:

Red Arrow
Steady Yellow Arrow
Flashing Yellow Arrow/Steady Green Arrow (2 sets of LED's)

At first, I thought they only had FYA's without the green. The I got to examine a signal up close.

[PAHighways]

Looks like flashing yellow arrows won't be coming to Pennsylvania anytime soon:  http://www.mcall.com/news/local/warrior/mc-road-warrior-yellow-arrow-20110626,0,4579548.column.

The June 16 USA Today story suggests the arrows rapidly are being adopted in some other states, but PennDOT spokesman Steve Chizmar said department officials are not pushing the Legislature to approve them here, at least not yet. "We see them in other states and they look promising," he said. "But with the other competing issues out there, this is not necessarily being pushed right now."

[roadfro]

Sounds like PA has some misconception on what the actual use of the FYA arrow is. But then again, reading the article, I get the impression that PA isn't that familiar with arrow operations in general...

[Mr_Northside]

Looks like flashing yellow arrows won't be coming to Pennsylvania anytime soon:  http://www.mcall.com/news/local/warrior/mc-road-warrior-yellow-arrow-20110626,0,4579548.column.

Thank God.  There's a lot you can fault & bash PennDOT for over the years, but at least they're getting this right.

[1995hoo]

It's pretty funny, we are in Florida visiting relatives, and so far all of them have griped about flashing yellow arrows and said that nobody knows what they mean (themselves included); what made their comments interesting to me is that 1) they all live in different parts of the state (Fort Myers, Pembroke Pines, and now we're in Viera) yet they all had the same gripe and 2) we haven't seen a single flashing yellow arrow the whole time we've been down here.

When I explained the point of the thing, they were all incredulous and wanted to know what's wrong with just making sure the other cars stop and why our system seems so focused on protecting against the dumbest of the dumb.

[Scott5114]

It's pretty funny, we are in Florida visiting relatives, and so far all of them have griped about flashing yellow arrows and said that nobody knows what they mean (themselves included)

Does Florida not put up a sign? In Oklahoma, there is a sign next to each FYA that says "LEFT TURN YIELD TO ONCOMING TRAFFIC ON FLASHING (<-)"

[agentsteel53]

Does Florida not put up a sign? In Oklahoma, there is a sign next to each FYA that says "LEFT TURN YIELD TO ONCOMING TRAFFIC ON FLASHING (<-)"

I think it was Oregon which has FYA with no sign.  maybe Idaho.  one of those states which I was in over Memorial Day.

[realjd]

It's pretty funny, we are in Florida visiting relatives, and so far all of them have griped about flashing yellow arrows and said that nobody knows what they mean (themselves included)

Does Florida not put up a sign? In Oklahoma, there is a sign next to each FYA that says "LEFT TURN YIELD TO ONCOMING TRAFFIC ON FLASHING (<-)"

I haven't seen a FYA installation here personally, but it's not like Florida to sign something like that. There are no "Left Turn Yield On Green (ball)" signs or "Left Turn Signal" signs or "Left On Green Arrow Only" signs here like there are in other states.

[1995hoo]

It's pretty funny, we are in Florida visiting relatives, and so far all of them have griped about flashing yellow arrows and said that nobody knows what they mean (themselves included)

Does Florida not put up a sign? In Oklahoma, there is a sign next to each FYA that says "LEFT TURN YIELD TO ONCOMING TRAFFIC ON FLASHING (<-)"

I don't know. As I said, I haven't seen one here. BUT my brother-in-law didn't know what it meant, and I was surprised because he's the type of person who knows these things AND because he's a fireman and usually knows all the rules. He felt the flashing yellow is redundant compared to the normal doghouse signal.

I've been observing this afternoon and haven't seen any "left turn yield on green circle" signs. That makes me assume there wouldn't be flashing yellow ones either, especially after the other comments above.

[Ian]

To be honest, I wouldn't mind the FYA if it didn't mean the demise of the doghouse signal. The doghouse was my favorite and it's sad for me to see them go.

[roadfro]

Does Florida not put up a sign? In Oklahoma, there is a sign next to each FYA that says "LEFT TURN YIELD TO ONCOMING TRAFFIC ON FLASHING (<-)"

MUTCD required the "LEFT TURN YIELD ON GREEN [symbolic green ball]" sign with the doghouse or other 5-section head. MUTCD does not require a sign with an FYA display. However, many states have decided to implement some kind of sign with their FYA installations as a semi-explanatory device (similar to how "LEFT TURN ON GREEN ARROW ONLY" was often used when arrows were first put in, although similar signs are still used even though not needed). Nevada uses "YIELD ON FLASHING YELLOW ARROW" with its FYAs.

[Mr_Northside]

MUTCD required the "LEFT TURN YIELD ON GREEN [symbolic green ball]" sign with the doghouse or other 5-section head. MUTCD does not require a sign with an FYA display. However, many states have decided to implement some kind of sign with their FYA installations as a semi-explanatory device

You'd think something as counter-intuitive as a FYA would require a sign explaining it's operation.  
Obviously, someone who lives in an area where these have become commonplace will no longer need it for themselves, but those from areas without them probably need some explanation.

[vdeane]

To be honest, I wouldn't mind the FYA if it didn't mean the demise of the doghouse signal. The doghouse was my favorite and it's sad for me to see them go.

Honestly, if more states used the doghouse signal instead of having a separate left turn signal phase with the red ball signal the flashing yellow signal probably wouldn't have been concieved up because drivers would know to yield to oncoming traffic unless they have an arrow.  In upstate NY the doghouse is everywhere and fully protected left turns are rare, so nobody assumes they can turn left without looking if they don't have an arrow.  Most of our signals with a left turn phase use arrows on the signal anyways.  The only red ball signal I can recall in the entire state (NY 590/Titus Ave) was replaced with a roundabout a couple of years ago.

[corco]

I think it was Oregon which has FYA with no sign.  maybe Idaho.  one of those states which I was in over Memorial Day.

Both, I think. I don't recall ever seeing  FYA advisory sign anywhere, now that I think about it.

[SignBridge]

Hmmm..............Dean, have you ever been to Long Island? Lots of intersections on divided State highways here have protected-only left turns. Doghouses are common too, on undivided state roads.

[roadfro]

I think it was Oregon which has FYA with no sign.  maybe Idaho.

Quite possibly Oregon. They were an early adopter of the FYA during/after FHWA allowed experimentation. I believe one of the stipulations during the experimentation phase was that no sign be installed, so that researchers could really evaluate driver understanding of the operation without a sign telling drivers how to act.

You'd think something as counter-intuitive as a FYA would require a sign explaining it's operation.  
Obviously, someone who lives in an area where these have become commonplace will no longer need it for themselves, but those from areas without them probably need some explanation.

The National research studies indicate the FYA is more intuitive than the old MUTCD 5-section display (doghouse, horizontal or vertical) and other methods of displaying PPLT operations, which is why FHWA adopted it as the standard PPLT display in the 2009 MUTCD. The research also indicated drivers understood the meaning fairly intuitively without the need for an explanatory sign...

Honestly, if more states used the doghouse signal instead of having a separate left turn signal phase with the red ball signal the flashing yellow signal probably wouldn't have been concieved up because drivers would know to yield to oncoming traffic unless they have an arrow.  In upstate NY the doghouse is everywhere and fully protected left turns are rare, so nobody assumes they can turn left without looking if they don't have an arrow.  Most of our signals with a left turn phase use arrows on the signal anyways.  The only red ball signal I can recall in the entire state (NY 590/Titus Ave) was replaced with a roundabout a couple of years ago.

Not exactly the point you're making here, as "red ball signal" is a phrase that can mean many things. However, if there is a proliferation of doghouse signals, that implies there is at least some use of protected left turn phasing, since the doghouse signal should be used for both protected and permitted turns--if there were no protected turns, there would be no need for a doghouse and a simple three-section head could be used instead...

In any event, one of the main concerns with the 5-section display is that drivers in a left turn lane seeing the circular green ball overhead during the permissive phase commonly mistake that indication as a signal to go, regardless of oncoming traffic--in other words, drivers would see only the green ball and not automatically assume they have to yield to oncoming traffic. A driver confused by the meaning of the 5-section signal quite often proceeds to cause an accident, a critical failure maneuver. In contrast, a driver confused by the FYA often hesitates to proceed, which is a safer failure scenario.

[corco]

Quite possibly Oregon. They were an early adopter of the FYA during/after FHWA allowed experimentation. I believe one of the stipulations during the experimentation phase was that no sign be installed, so that researchers could really evaluate driver understanding of the operation without a sign telling drivers how to act.

There definitely are intersections in Oregon without a sign. The first time I ever encountered an FYA was definitely somewhere on US-30 in Oregon back in 06 or 07 and I was like WTF is this and there was no sign saying what it was.

[Scott5114]

I think it was Oregon which has FYA with no sign.  maybe Idaho.  one of those states which I was in over Memorial Day.

Both, I think. I don't recall ever seeing  FYA advisory sign anywhere, now that I think about it.

I can take a picture of the one Norman is using. I'll be out this morning and can swing by the nearest intersection that uses one.

[rickmastfan67]

Quite possibly Oregon. They were an early adopter of the FYA during/after FHWA allowed experimentation. I believe one of the stipulations during the experimentation phase was that no sign be installed, so that researchers could really evaluate driver understanding of the operation without a sign telling drivers how to act.

There definitely are intersections in Oregon without a sign. The first time I ever encountered an FYA was definitely somewhere on US-30 in Oregon back in 06 or 07 and I was like WTF is this and there was no sign saying what it was.

The one I know of that is in NC doesn't have a sign with it.  It's even in StreetView already:
http://maps.google.com/?ll=35.332584,-80.745993&spn=0.003269,0.006968&z=18&layer=c&cbll=35.332723,-80.74594&panoid=xr1uNcTw-cUfzTZrOADdzw&cbp=12,252.77,,1,-2.53

[vdeane]

Hmmm..............Dean, have you ever been to Long Island? Lots of intersections on divided State highways here have protected-only left turns. Doghouses are common too, on undivided state roads.

Since when was Long Island upstate?

To answer your question, the furthest south I've been in NY is West Point.  Downstate is so different that it might as well be a completely different state altogether.

[Scott5114]

I can take a picture of the one Norman is using. I'll be out this morning and can swing by the nearest intersection that uses one.

[SignBridge]

Dean, sorry if I misunderstood you. I assumed we were talking about NYS DOT in general. But you're right. downstate and Long Island, are a very different kind of region than much of upstate NY.