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Author Topic: US-41 Interstate Conversion  (Read 116199 times)

mgk920

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Re: US 41 Wisconsin
« Reply #150 on: February 28, 2012, 02:45:33 AM »

So WisDOT is betting on 55?  Hmm.  My preferred option has always been 41 as I've said before.  Extending a Chicagoland interstate puts it out of sequence and that always rubs me wrong.  At least it would be rooted in the grid.
And I can understand picking 55 over 57 because of that whole x5 emphasis the grid uses.  55 is what should've been the number for the original Milwaukee-Green Bay interstate.

Mike, did you discuss with anyone the possible fate of I-894?  Regardless of the number we get, it seems logical to eliminate 894 as it would create a useless duplex with the new interstate.  But I'm just speculating; does WisDOT see that happening?

I think all the verbiage on WisDOT's site has I-43 as the northern terminus, but was there any mention of taking the new interstate to Abrams right away?  That split is major enough for an interstate terminus in my mind.

Finally, was there any display about the WI 144 interchange in Slinger?  It's up for reconstruction next year, I believe, and is the last paleo-interchange left on the interstate corridor. It seems to me like they have room to eliminate the loop ramp and turn it into a straight-up diamond.  Just curious.

I did not ask anything about I-894 or anything else south of the Oshkosh area, as that is not in the area covered by the Green Bay WisDOT office.  I would safely assume that I-894 will likely go 'bye-bye' when the US 41 promotion happens.  One additional idea that I heard chatter on a few years back would also reroute I-94 to replace what is now I-894, with the I-94 East-West freeway east of the Zoo Interchange then becoming I-794 (the North-South Freeway part of I-94 would reduced to just I-43 in that case), and idea that, IMHO, has some merit.

BTW, as I mentioned elsewhere, the original working number for what ultimately became I-43 was 'I-57' and it was to closely follow WI 57 between Milwaukee and Green Bay.

I am aware of plans to re-engineer the US 41/WI 144 interchange, but it too is not in the area covered by the Green Bay WisDOT office.  I am also aware of no near-term plans to extend interstate numbering north of the Howard interchange (US 41/I-43 in northwest Green Bay), although it might well someday happen (I am not losing any sleep on that one).

-One more item that I forgot to mention earlier, as a part of the upgrade project, WisDOT will be installing permanent 'weigh in motion' scales on US 41 on the Oshkosh Causeway, with the State Patrol (motor carrier enforcement section) having primary access to it.

Mike
« Last Edit: February 28, 2012, 02:50:17 AM by mgk920 »
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mgk920

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Re: US 41 Wisconsin
« Reply #151 on: February 28, 2012, 02:49:13 AM »

I recalled in early 80s that IDiOT told WisDOT off about extending 43 into IL on that US 51 freeway that was under construction at the time.  They also told them to shove it on I-57 back in the 70s.  WisDOT should go right after IDiOT and pursue 57 or 55, I see 57 the better choice - IDiOT and ITHA is actually getting off their butts in building that interchange with 294.  Chicagoland locals don't refer any of the main expressway/tollway by number anyway - except for 57.  The trucking industry sees I-57 as basically I-55 ALT anyway, there are places on I-57 south of Chicago that at least 30% of traffic is trucks.

In a somewhat joking manner, I suggested to the WisDOT guys that they simply mark whatever the number is to the state line and let ID(i)OT and the ISTHA worry about their side.  Recall that WisDOT marked I-39 to the Illinois state line several years before Illinois did their side.

Mike
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Re: US 41 Wisconsin
« Reply #152 on: February 28, 2012, 03:23:21 AM »

Not only that, those bastards also had to redo the Cherry Valley area of I-39 to get rid of a mainline loop ramp (that predated I-39) and the infamous exact change toll plaza.  I-39 still has a single lane mainline at US 20 but the traffic delays don't compare to those days the toll booth was still in operation.  Those locals in Wisconsin started referring the concurrency as the 39/90 in the relatively short time its been signed.

WisDOT should just use 57, as 55 got that functionally obsolete junctions with both 294 and 90/94; simply ignore both IDiOT and ITHA anyway as they're both state agencies in a very corrupt state.  The more $$$ that WisDOT extracts from IDiOT the better. it just means less $$$ they can spend on their so called pipe dream list around Chicagoland.  WisDOT isn't the first state that extracted money from IDiOT in this manner - MoDOT pulled it off in 1987 with I-64 - the locals simply blew it off but IDiOT was forced to replace all the signage for a 4 mile section of I-55/70.

Down here, MoDOT has taken some heat in the past but the locals are pretty much pissed off with IDiOT.  Its a long story and off-topic for this.
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Re: US 41 Wisconsin
« Reply #153 on: February 28, 2012, 04:23:05 PM »

If they use I-57, they could re-align US-41 to replace it ;)

Same with WIS 55, but then you'd still have some from Appleton northward.

But AASTHO has a rule against demoting US Routes from freeways.
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Re: US 41 Wisconsin
« Reply #154 on: March 01, 2012, 07:20:38 PM »

Changing numbers doesn't change traffic flow. If the interchange is fine currently, it doesn't need reconfiguration just because the numbers change. (Even if it's not currently fine, it doesn't need to jump the queue.)

But what about all of those people that took I-55 -> I-294 -> I-94 -> US-41??  They're all going to take I-55 the entire way now!!   :wow:

For us here in the Oshkosh/Appleton/Green Bay, WI area, the route number order is usually 'I-55 -> I-39 -> WI 26 -> US 41'.

:jumping:

Mike

Wouldn't that be I-55 -> I-39 -> US 151 -> WI 26 -> US 41?  I did take that route when I lived in Dekalb, IL and drove to Neenah.  However when I moved closer to Chicago, I always went up the Tri-State to I-94.  Of course, now that I'm back in SEWI, it's often WI 83 -> WI 175 -> US 151 -> US 41, always pausing to honor the memory of the WI 175/WI 33 "interchange" and the WI-175/US 41 "rotary". :)
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mgk920

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Re: US 41 Wisconsin
« Reply #155 on: March 01, 2012, 08:08:21 PM »

Changing numbers doesn't change traffic flow. If the interchange is fine currently, it doesn't need reconfiguration just because the numbers change. (Even if it's not currently fine, it doesn't need to jump the queue.)

But what about all of those people that took I-55 -> I-294 -> I-94 -> US-41??  They're all going to take I-55 the entire way now!!   :wow:

For us here in the Oshkosh/Appleton/Green Bay, WI area, the route number order is usually 'I-55 -> I-39 -> WI 26 -> US 41'.

:jumping:

Mike

Wouldn't that be I-55 -> I-39 -> US 151 -> WI 26 -> US 41?  I did take that route when I lived in Dekalb, IL and drove to Neenah.  However when I moved closer to Chicago, I always went up the Tri-State to I-94.  Of course, now that I'm back in SEWI, it's often WI 83 -> WI 175 -> US 151 -> US 41, always pausing to honor the memory of the WI 175/WI 33 "interchange" and the WI-175/US 41 "rotary". :)

No, I-39 -> WI 26 at Janesville (with a short diversion on US 151 at Waupun) -> US 41 at Oshkosh.  The entire length of WI 26 is a pretty active truck route, except that as WI 26 is laid out right now, they'll often use US 151 and County 'A' between Waupun and a point on WI 26 between WI 16/60 and Juneau.

Mike
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GeekJedi

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Re: US 41 Wisconsin
« Reply #156 on: March 01, 2012, 08:50:28 PM »

My bad.  I forgot that 26 and 39 met up in Janesville (I still have a mental block with that whole 39/90 thing.  Sort of the way I still occasionally lose my grip with reality and refer to the Rock Freeway as "Highway 15"!). With the Jeff bypass (and soon Watertown) I could absolutely see that as the way to go!
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Re: US 41 Wisconsin
« Reply #157 on: March 02, 2012, 10:52:31 AM »

And starting this year, the construction of a Milton bypass and four-laning up to Fort Atkinson.
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mgk920

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Re: US 41 Wisconsin
« Reply #158 on: March 22, 2012, 01:27:39 PM »

A week or so ago, as I was driving southwards towards Neenah, I noticed a crew taking soil boring samples from the green area between the SB US 41 mainline lanes and the C/D lanes where the long-planned EB US 10 to NB US 41 'missing move' free-flow ramp is expected to go in the US 10/41/WI 441 'Bridgeview' Interchange, whenever its planned upgrades are built.

Mike
« Last Edit: March 22, 2012, 01:36:25 PM by mgk920 »
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triplemultiplex

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Re: US 41 Wisconsin
« Reply #159 on: March 22, 2012, 06:09:23 PM »

A week or so ago, as I was driving southwards towards Neenah, I noticed a crew taking soil boring samples from the green area between the SB US 41 mainline lanes and the C/D lanes where the long-planned EB US 10 to NB US 41 'missing move' free-flow ramp is expected to go in the US 10/41/WI 441 'Bridgeview' Interchange, whenever its planned upgrades are built.

I bet they found in order of increasing depth:
clay
sandy, carbonate-rich glacial till
limestone

That's Ordovician bedrock overrun by Pleistocene glaciers with a brief time under the waters of Glacial Lake Oshkosh.

(Wisconsin c. 12,000 years ago)
Geology is cool.
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GeekJedi

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The Northwestern: US 41 to become interstate by 2014
« Reply #160 on: May 03, 2012, 12:37:13 PM »

The thing that caught my eye was this:

"DOT officials said Highway 41 is not likely to be given its own interstate number, but would instead designated as a spur or beltway addition to an existing highway, which would be identified by a three-digit number."

http://www.thenorthwestern.com/article/20120503/OSH0101/305030084/Highway-41-become-interstate-by-2014
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Alps

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Re: The Northwestern: US 41 to become interstate by 2014
« Reply #161 on: May 03, 2012, 07:02:00 PM »

Saw that article over lunch. I played around with the idea that it would likely become an even x43 based on its location, maybe 243. Would 441 then become I-443? How about some of the other longer freeways like US 45 and 10, would Wisconsin seek Interstate designations for any of those? And finally, what becomes of I-894 now that its western leg becomes another concurrency - does it remain an entirely overlapped route?
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Re: The Northwestern: US 41 to become interstate by 2014
« Reply #162 on: May 03, 2012, 07:56:06 PM »

Really hope the 3di is not what we get.  That is the least palatable of the numbering options that have been tossed around, in my opinion.  What are they going to do?  Create an X43 that's only like 50 miles shorter than the parent?  That's stupid.

Frickin' I-41 is available and fits the grid in this part of the country.  Screw that same number bullshit and toss US 41 in the dustbin between Illinois and Green Bay.  It's the most sensible option to me.
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JREwing78

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Re: The Northwestern: US 41 to become interstate by 2014
« Reply #163 on: May 03, 2012, 08:58:00 PM »

Ugh! A 3-digit interstate would largely defeat the purpose of the interstate upgrade! If the Portage to Wausau stretch of US-51 merited a 2-digit interstate number, why the hell doesn't US-41?
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mgk920

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Re: The Northwestern: US 41 to become interstate by 2014
« Reply #164 on: May 03, 2012, 09:51:58 PM »

Ugh! A 3-digit interstate would largely defeat the purpose of the interstate upgrade! If the Portage to Wausau stretch of US-51 merited a 2-digit interstate number, why the hell doesn't US-41?

I think that I'll stand by what the WisDOT guys directly told me a few weeks ago and not put as much credence in what a non-roadgeek reporter says that they told him, especially one of today's breed.

BTW, the same article ran in today's Appleton Post-Crescent.

Mike
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DaBigE

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Re: The Northwestern: US 41 to become interstate by 2014
« Reply #165 on: May 04, 2012, 03:02:54 AM »

Really hope the 3di is not what we get.  That is the least palatable of the numbering options that have been tossed around, in my opinion.  What are they going to do?  Create an X43 that's only like 50 miles shorter than the parent?  That's stupid.

Frickin' I-41 is available and fits the grid in this part of the country.  Screw that same number bullshit and toss US 41 in the dustbin between Illinois and Green Bay.  It's the most sensible option to me.

I couldn't agree more.  Besides, the average driver won't care if there's both a US 41 and an IH 41.  Hell, if I had a nickel for every time I've heard someone "mistakenly" call it I-41 (or even I-45 for that matter), I could purchased a tank of gas.
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Re: The Northwestern: US 41 to become interstate by 2014
« Reply #166 on: May 04, 2012, 12:51:09 PM »

I wish they could get IL and DC to reroute 55 at Bloomington along 39 and drop 39 completely to it's terminus, make 43 from Beliot to Milwaukee to Appleton to GB a northern 59, make Milwaukee to GB-61 or 63
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Re: The Northwestern: US 41 to become interstate by 2014
« Reply #167 on: May 04, 2012, 01:02:24 PM »

I wish they could get people to post fiction in the fictional forum.

Brandon

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Re: The Northwestern: US 41 to become interstate by 2014
« Reply #168 on: May 04, 2012, 06:48:12 PM »

I wish they could get IL and DC to reroute 55 at Bloomington along 39 and drop 39 completely to it's terminus, make 43 from Beliot to Milwaukee to Appleton to GB a northern 59, make Milwaukee to GB-61 or 63

Not gonna happen.  I-55 is a major route (I-x5), and Chicago is a major city.
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Re: The Northwestern: US 41 to become interstate by 2014
« Reply #169 on: May 04, 2012, 06:48:18 PM »

For mgk920, who seems to have connections, I re-pose my question as a multiple choice:

a) Are there plans to make WI 441 or any other freeways connecting to the US 41 corridor into their own 3-digit Interstates?
b) Has the topic simply not been discussed yet, but not been ruled out?
c) Does WisDOT have no Interstate intention beyond US 41 itself?
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mgk920

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Re: The Northwestern: US 41 to become interstate by 2014
« Reply #170 on: May 04, 2012, 08:42:33 PM »

For mgk920, who seems to have connections, I re-pose my question as a multiple choice:

a) Are there plans to make WI 441 or any other freeways connecting to the US 41 corridor into their own 3-digit Interstates?
b) Has the topic simply not been discussed yet, but not been ruled out?
c) Does WisDOT have no Interstate intention beyond US 41 itself?

a & b)  I am unaware of any immediate plans - however such a 'promotion' would not surprise me, but not right away.  Remember that the part of the US 10/WI 441 freeway that is in Winnebago County (east of US 41 to where US 10 hops off at Oneida St) is not up to full interstate standards.  It has several substandard radius curves, several closely-spaced interchanges and no shoulders on the bridge over Little Lake Butte des Morts (French - 'Hill of the Dead', named for the Indian effigy/burial mounds that were found in the area by early explorers).  WisDOT has *firm* plans to upgrade the Winnebago County part to be a fully interstate-compatible six lanes (a parallel bridge, broaden the 'S' curves, complete and upgrade the interchange at US 41, etc), waiting on funding.

This freeway will certainly be on the tour for any meet that takes place here in the Appleton area (right now, I'm shooting for the weekend of 3-5 August).

c)  I have heard of no other 'official' interest in seeking interstate promotion for any other freeways and/or near-freeways anywhere in the state, including in the US 41 corridor, other than for that short section of combined US 51/WI 29 in the Wausau area (proposed to be promoted to become 'I-39', which has not yet happened).  WisDOT is not an agency that likes to go out and try to put those snazzy signs on roads just for the sake of putting up snazzy signs, even if the roads are fully up to standard and 'promoting' them would otherwise make sense from a mapping and navigation standpoint, without a very good reason.

Mike
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 08:45:50 PM by mgk920 »
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Fox 11 News

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Re: US 41 Wisconsin
« Reply #171 on: May 06, 2012, 01:20:13 AM »

The DOT and other agencies held a news conference this week regarding the weight limits on U.S. 41 for after it goes to interstate status.

Here's the story:
http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/fox_cities/trucks-need-weight-waiver-when-41-becomes-interstate

Here's the excerpt about the number designation.

"And once the road is designated an interstate highway, what number will it be? The DOT says several options are on the table right now.

A spokesperson says naming it Interstate 41 is unlikely. The DOT wants to avoid confusion since parts of 41 will remain a U.S. Highway.

"Some other numbers we are looking at are three digit numbers which would be a loop of ighway 43 or a spur of highway 94, so we are looking at all the different numbers and the opportunities," said Tammy Rabe, of the state DOT.
     
That could make the highway's designation as I-243 or an extension of I-894, although the DOT would not confirm either number as among the possibilities.

Public input sessions on the interstate designation will be held in the coming weeks. Officials say they hope to start putting the new signs up by the summer of 2014."
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Re: US 41 Wisconsin
« Reply #172 on: May 06, 2012, 05:38:58 AM »

If it is to be I-243, then Wisconsin has another duplication something that the DOT frowns upon. WI 243 currently is a bridge connection over the St Croix River at Osceola. I still see no reason why US 41 and I-41 could not coexist with US 41 being moved onto WI 175 between Milwaukee and just south of Oshkosh like it originally was prior to the freeway. US 51 south of Portage for all but 5 miles is not on I-39/90. Hell i would even swallow the bullet and take I-57 up from Chicago (not I-55 though) and have WI 57 become a new number say my newly freed up WI 175.
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mgk920

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Re: US 41 Wisconsin
« Reply #173 on: May 06, 2012, 12:14:43 PM »

Amazing, has a legitimate news agency ever joined a roadgeek discussion forvm before ('Fox 11 News' - WLUK-TV, channel 11 in Green Bay, WI http://www.fox11online.com/ )?

 :wow:

Anyways, there is a lot that can be read into the 'will not get a number of its own' statement from WisDOT.  Recall that a few years ago, WisDOT submitted a 'suggestion' list of four potential route numbers to AASHTO (the 'American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials', keeper of the standards and holder of the registered federal trademark on the snazzy interstate highway sign shield design) for US 41's pending interstate promotion - '41', '55', '57' and '243'.  Two of them, '55' and '57', would be extensions of already-existing cross-country interstate highway routes, both of which now end in the City of Chicago.

I can see much merit in either of those two numbers as US 41 is a well-used cross-country highway, not a local loop or spur freeway, and, IMHO, is well deserving of a two-digit I-route number.  Also, either one will give the very confusing I-94 south of Milwaukee a proper north-south route number (the north-south Chicago-Milwaukee I-94 highway is signed as being 'east-west' with 'westbound' being towards Milwaukee - yes, it is confusing as all get-go for those not familiar with the road).  Either will also make navigating the 'best' routing around Milwaukee for traffic transiting between Chicagoland and the Fox Valley (FdL, Oshkosh, Appleton, etc) as right now, that corridor, I-94/US 41 <-> I-43/894 <-> I-894/US 45 <-> US 45 <-> US 41, has no single route number - even though US 41 is on it at either end.  Again, it is majorly confusing for those not familiar with those roads.

In my conversations with Kim Rudat from WisDOT's Green Bay office a couple of months ago, he also said that the number '41' was pretty much out of contention and seemed must 'bullish' on it ultimately being '55'.

We shall see.

 :nod:

Mike
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Re: US 41 Wisconsin
« Reply #174 on: May 06, 2012, 12:38:15 PM »

a legitimate news agency
Fox? Nope.
 


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