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Author Topic: I-39/I-90 study in southern Wisconsin  (Read 11799 times)

JREwing78

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Re: I-39/I-90 study in southern Wisconsin
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2012, 11:11:22 AM »

They *could* do that, but the thinking is likely that once I-90 in Illinois is uncorked, traffic growth is going to take a spike upward, particularly on summer and holiday weekends. You'll get people who will travel more frequently since the drive is less stressful, and they'll also consider the traffic less when choosing when to travel. You'll see larger spikes in travel on Fridays and Sundays as everyone arrives and leaves at the same time.

The consideration isn't in just raw traffic numbers (which are certainly there), but in the high amount of commercial vehicle traffic. The Beltline in Madison gets away with 3 lanes each way (sort of) in part because truck traffic is a fairly low percentage of the traffic volume. But WisDOT can ill afford to have the backups on I-39/90 in Janesville that the Beltline in Madison gets, particularly with so many trucks on the highway. If they have to have the 4th lane to smooth traffic flow through Janesville, better to get it in place now than to come back 10 years later and tie up the highway again.
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mgk920

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Re: I-39/I-90 study in southern Wisconsin
« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2012, 12:07:03 PM »

They *could* do that, but the thinking is likely that once I-90 in Illinois is uncorked, traffic growth is going to take a spike upward, particularly on summer and holiday weekends. You'll get people who will travel more frequently since the drive is less stressful, and they'll also consider the traffic less when choosing when to travel. You'll see larger spikes in travel on Fridays and Sundays as everyone arrives and leaves at the same time.

The consideration isn't in just raw traffic numbers (which are certainly there), but in the high amount of commercial vehicle traffic. The Beltline in Madison gets away with 3 lanes each way (sort of) in part because truck traffic is a fairly low percentage of the traffic volume. But WisDOT can ill afford to have the backups on I-39/90 in Janesville that the Beltline in Madison gets, particularly with so many trucks on the highway. If they have to have the 4th lane to smooth traffic flow through Janesville, better to get it in place now than to come back 10 years later and tie up the highway again.

One mitigating factor with regards to tourist traffic on summer weekends is that for traffic between Chicagoland and the Wisconsin northwoods, it is now shorter and faster to go by way of US 41(I-xx), US 45 and US 10 via Milwaukee and Oshkosh to Stevens Point than the all-interstate routing of I-90 and I-39 via Rockford and Madison.  That's why WisDOT built those high-powered ramps at US 41(I-xx)/US 45 in Oshkosh.  The final piece in that 'puzzle' is a direct free-flow feed between I-39 and US 10 to the east at Stevens Point/Plover, which is now waiting on funding.

Mike
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Revive 755

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Re: I-39/I-90 study in southern Wisconsin
« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2012, 02:01:23 PM »

^ Kind of depends upon the origin of the trip in Chicagoland whether I-90/I-39 is the better route over I-94/US 41.  Playing around with Google Maps, it seems the dividing line for which route is shorter distance wise is around the IL 83 corridor.
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JREwing78

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Re: I-39/I-90 study in southern Wisconsin
« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2012, 09:02:45 PM »

I went to the PIM for the southern 3rd of the I-39/90 project tonight. There was heavy turnout tonight - the estimate I heard from WisDOT staff was about 175-200 attendees.

Some of the more interesting info:

- NO design consideration is being made for Hwy 11 and US 14 east of Janesville during the Hwy 11 interchange rebuild. The spokesman indicated that the study wasn't far enough along, and indicated the expressway was likely at least 10-20 years away.

- They are rebuilding the Hwy 11 West/Avalon Rd exit with either regular roundabouts, roundabouts for "oversize" semis, or stoplights. A ton of comments tonight were regarding accommodations for truck traffic and the (perceived) inappropriateness of roundabouts for truck traffic, particularly oversize trucks.

- The 8-lane I-39/90 section starts at Hwy 11 and continues northward to Hwy 26 (though the materials tonight only showed it to Hwy O). The materials presented tonight are presenting the 8-lane section as a done deal, whereas earlier news reports indicated it wasn't set in stone.

- The I-39/90 - I-43 - Hwy 81 interchange in Beloit will end up being a tri-level stack. All alternatives feature the high-speed ramps to and from I-43 in all scenarios, likely going over the remaining highways. I-39/90 is being shifted east a few hundred feet to accommodate the entrance and exit ramps to southbound I-39/90. Two of the scenarios show an extension of Milwaukee Rd east of the interchange to tie into County X, one does not. They featured examples with both roundabouts and signals at the Hwy 81/County X interchange.

- The ramps to and from the Welcome Center are being straightened to allow for future additional parking and allow vehicles to get back to highway speeds before the I-43/Hwy 81 exit.

- As previously discussed, they're widening first into the median with a center barrier, then expanding outward to accommodate the 4th lane north of Hwy 11.
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mgk920

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Re: I-39/I-90 study in southern Wisconsin
« Reply #29 on: August 29, 2012, 03:06:31 PM »

I went to the PIM for the southern 3rd of the I-39/90 project tonight. There was heavy turnout tonight - the estimate I heard from WisDOT staff was about 175-200 attendees.

Some of the more interesting info:

- NO design consideration is being made for Hwy 11 and US 14 east of Janesville during the Hwy 11 interchange rebuild. The spokesman indicated that the study wasn't far enough along, and indicated the expressway was likely at least 10-20 years away.

- They are rebuilding the Hwy 11 West/Avalon Rd exit with either regular roundabouts, roundabouts for "oversize" semis, or stoplights. A ton of comments tonight were regarding accommodations for truck traffic and the (perceived) inappropriateness of roundabouts for truck traffic, particularly oversize trucks.

- The 8-lane I-39/90 section starts at Hwy 11 and continues northward to Hwy 26 (though the materials tonight only showed it to Hwy O). The materials presented tonight are presenting the 8-lane section as a done deal, whereas earlier news reports indicated it wasn't set in stone.

Was there anything there about upgrading that last little 'Breezewood' section of WI 26 between I-39/90 and the currently under-construction WI 26 freeway just to the northeast in Janesville?  I'll definitely have to send them a printout of my 'fictional highways'/'redesigned interchanges' posting on that from a few weeks ago!

 :nod:

- The I-39/90 - I-43 - Hwy 81 interchange in Beloit will end up being a tri-level stack. All alternatives feature the high-speed ramps to and from I-43 in all scenarios, likely going over the remaining highways. I-39/90 is being shifted east a few hundred feet to accommodate the entrance and exit ramps to southbound I-39/90. Two of the scenarios show an extension of Milwaukee Rd east of the interchange to tie into County X, one does not. They featured examples with both roundabouts and signals at the Hwy 81/County X interchange.

This is one that I have had recent contact with WisDOT on - without fail, I would reconnect County 'X' (old WI 15) with Milwaukee Rd (WI 81) - it'll tie the whole road/street network in that area back together.  Ever since the WI 15 (now I-43) freeway was connected to I-39/90, that entire part of the City of Beloit east of I-39/90 has been effectively severed from the rest of the city to the west and that area is now primed and ready for some major economic development activity.  In fact, right now, I consider that area east of I-39/90 to be the most valuable undeveloped land in the entire State of Wisconsin.  A restored connection between Milwaukee Rd (WI 81) and County 'X', with direct access to I-39/90, is the final piece of that puzzle.

 :thumbsup:

Did any of the WisDOT maps show a potential overcrossing of I-43 at Lathers Rd in Beloit?

- The ramps to and from the Welcome Center are being straightened to allow for future additional parking and allow vehicles to get back to highway speeds before the I-43/Hwy 81 exit.

- As previously discussed, they're widening first into the median with a center barrier, then expanding outward to accommodate the 4th lane north of Hwy 11.

Mike
« Last Edit: August 29, 2012, 03:22:05 PM by mgk920 »
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WarrenWallace

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Re: I-39/I-90 study in southern Wisconsin
« Reply #30 on: August 29, 2012, 03:16:15 PM »

The City of Janesville wants the stoplights on 26 at Kettering and at McCormick (new CTH Y).  Already fought the state in that regard and the DOT relented. 
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JREwing78

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Re: I-39/I-90 study in southern Wisconsin
« Reply #31 on: August 29, 2012, 08:21:37 PM »

Was there anything there about upgrading that last little 'Breezewood' section of WI 26 between I-39/90 and the currently under-construction WI 26 freeway just to the northeast in Janesville?

No - the PIM yesterday only concerned the state line to County O (just south of Racine St in Janesville).

Did any of the WisDOT maps show a potential overcrossing of I-43 at Lathers Rd in Beloit?

No. The improvements were limited to the realigned I-39/90 interchange and the possible County X/Hwy 81 connection.
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JREwing78

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Re: I-39/I-90 study in southern Wisconsin
« Reply #32 on: August 29, 2012, 08:24:07 PM »

Regarding the recent change in plans to 8-lane I-39/90 through Janesville: "Things have changed, and the numbers right now put the Janesville stretch very close to needing a fourth lane," said John Vesperman, the transportation department's project chief. "We have better sets of numbers, and they are consistently getting higher."

DOT: More traffic likely means four lanes of I-90/39 in Janesville
http://gazettextra.com/news/2012/aug/29/dot-more-traffic-likely-means-four-lanes-i-9039-ja/

Next PIMs:

Central segment
Project: From County O to Dane/Rock County line
When: 5 to 7 p.m. Wednesday, Sept. 19, with a brief formal presentation at 5:30 p.m.
Where: Marshall Middle School, 25 S. Pontiac Drive, Janesville.

North segment
Project: From the Dane/Rock County line to the Highway 12/18 interchange near Madison.
When: 5:30 to 7:30 p.m. Monday, Sept. 24, with a brief formal presentation at 6 p.m.
Where: McFarland High School, 5101 Farwell St., McFarland.
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hobsini2

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Re: I-39/I-90 study in southern Wisconsin
« Reply #33 on: September 01, 2012, 05:18:41 AM »


Some of the more interesting info:

 - The ramps to and from the Welcome Center are being straightened to allow for future additional parking and allow vehicles to get back to highway speeds before the I-43/Hwy 81 exit.


This actually annoys me a bit because I do recall that prior to the rebuilding of this welcome center some 10 or so years ago (maybe longer), the exit/entrance ramp to/from the welcome center was STRAIGHT. That's why the old brown "Welcome to Wisconsin" sign is where it is. Obviously no foresight in this.
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WarrenWallace

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Re: I-39/I-90 study in southern Wisconsin
« Reply #34 on: September 06, 2012, 09:16:35 AM »

The exhibits from the south section meeting are now available for online viewing.

http://www.dot.state.wi.us/projects/swregion/i3990/south/maps.htm#exhibits
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SEWIGuy

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Re: I-39/I-90 study in southern Wisconsin
« Reply #35 on: September 06, 2012, 10:07:36 AM »

I much prefer Alternative #3 to the WI-81/I-43 interchange.  Cutting off Gateway Blvd from WI-81 is long-term not a good idea.  Alternative #2 I think would be a disaster for the businesses currently operating along WI-81 just west of the current interchange.
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mgk920

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Re: I-39/I-90 study in southern Wisconsin
« Reply #36 on: September 06, 2012, 11:22:45 AM »

^^
Either Alt 2 or Alt 3 at I-43 in Beloit are acceptable to me - correcting the BIG mistake that was made there when the original WI 15 freeway was extended to Beloit by reconnecting Milwaukee Rd across I-39/90 just makes common sense and is most important to me.  I'm just not sure whether the added access to I-43 in Alt 3 is worth the additional cost as I don't think that it would be all that difficult to drive the short distance northeastward on (restored old WI 15) to get to the existing I-43/County 'X' interchange.

 :thumbsup:

One additional thing - I would include a street overcrossing of I-43 at Lathers Rd - it will greatly improve access to that part of the City of Beloit in the NE quadrant of that interchange, which I also consider a prime area for development.

One point here, for those who are into 'dissing' roundabouts, is that with the option of using roundabouts Alt 3 is possible - they really do allow for much, much more flexibility in road layout by not having to restrict everything to near right-angle intersections with no more than four radial roadways.

 :poke:

 :cool:

Mike
« Last Edit: September 06, 2012, 11:25:33 AM by mgk920 »
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WarrenWallace

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Re: I-39/I-90 study in southern Wisconsin
« Reply #37 on: September 18, 2012, 10:37:12 AM »

The central segment meeting is on Wednesday in Janesville.  And hopefully information from that meeting will be available by Friday on the DOT site.
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WarrenWallace

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Re: I-39/I-90 study in southern Wisconsin
« Reply #38 on: September 25, 2012, 11:42:07 AM »

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mgk920

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Re: I-39/I-90 study in southern Wisconsin
« Reply #39 on: September 25, 2012, 02:01:48 PM »

No plans to eliminate that 'Breezewood' situation on WI 26 at Janesville?

 :banghead:

Mike
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JREwing78

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Re: I-39/I-90 study in southern Wisconsin
« Reply #40 on: September 26, 2012, 12:56:34 AM »

Nope. Janesville likes it that way - at least that's the story from the WisDOT rep I spoke to at the last PIM for the southern portion of the I-39/90 project. I agree, it sucks rocks, and I expect in 20-30 years some effort will be made to un-Breezewood it.

It's worse than Johnson Creek, since Hwy 26 through there has sufficient room to close side road access and convert the existing business access to RIRO without trouble, and none of the businesses have direct driveway access to the road. There's still businesses with driveway access to 26 north of I-39/90, with no practical way to put frontage roads in.
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SEWIGuy

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Re: I-39/I-90 study in southern Wisconsin
« Reply #41 on: September 26, 2012, 10:35:33 AM »

It is not worth the extra money to eliminate the WI-26 situation.  Seriously, traffic from I-90 to WI-26 has to deal with two lights and I don't recall ever waiting through more than one cycle on either of them.  (And one of these lights might be going away with the WI-26 upgrades...although I am not sure.)  Johnson Creek may need to eventually deal with their situation now with the lights, but again, it isn't that inconvenient.

You simply can build everything free-flow without regards to cost.
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hobsini2

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Re: I-39/I-90 study in southern Wisconsin
« Reply #42 on: September 26, 2012, 09:49:53 PM »

It is not worth the extra money to eliminate the WI-26 situation.  Seriously, traffic from I-90 to WI-26 has to deal with two lights and I don't recall ever waiting through more than one cycle on either of them.  (And one of these lights might be going away with the WI-26 upgrades...although I am not sure.)  Johnson Creek may need to eventually deal with their situation now with the lights, but again, it isn't that inconvenient.

You simply can build everything free-flow without regards to cost.

If WisDOT has aspirations of truly making 26 a full fledged freeway, and they do, there should have been SB 26 to SB 39/90 and NB 39/90 to NB 26 free flow ramps that started north of Hwy Y in the plans.
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Revive 755

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Re: I-39/I-90 study in southern Wisconsin
« Reply #43 on: September 26, 2012, 10:03:47 PM »

Central Region presentation and exhibits.
http://www.dot.state.wi.us/projects/swregion/i3990/central/public.htm

Wait, they are adding C-D roads, yet still converting the parclos at WI 26 and US 14 to plain diamonds? :banghead:  If WisDOT really wants to use signals, they should pony up for some SPUIs; at least then they could sell some of the extra ROW near the interchanges.
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SEWIGuy

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Re: I-39/I-90 study in southern Wisconsin
« Reply #44 on: September 27, 2012, 11:01:31 AM »

It is not worth the extra money to eliminate the WI-26 situation.  Seriously, traffic from I-90 to WI-26 has to deal with two lights and I don't recall ever waiting through more than one cycle on either of them.  (And one of these lights might be going away with the WI-26 upgrades...although I am not sure.)  Johnson Creek may need to eventually deal with their situation now with the lights, but again, it isn't that inconvenient.

You simply can build everything free-flow without regards to cost.

If WisDOT has aspirations of truly making 26 a full fledged freeway, and they do, there should have been SB 26 to SB 39/90 and NB 39/90 to NB 26 free flow ramps that started north of Hwy Y in the plans.


Sorry I just disagree.  There is no need for it.  The need to eliminate all inconvenience with regards to connections simply isn't always worth the cost.  Yeah, I know Breezewood is a disaster.  But that doesn't mean that every similar situation needs to be eliminated.

US-10 in Stevens Point...WI-26 in Janesville and Johnson Creek...all of these are inconvenient, but they are small inconveniences.  That doesn't mean that millions need to be spent to completely eliminate them.  Adding a couple minutes of travel time is oftentimes not worth the cost.  Especially when IMO there are much greater needs facing the state.  Adding a third lane to I-94 between Madison and Milwaukee for example would go much further to meet the future travel needs of this state rather than adding free flow connections to highways with relatively less traffic.

For example, the free flow interchange between US-51 NB and WI-29 WB on the north side of Wausau.  I have driven through that interchange 100 times, and yes improvements to US-51 and the interchange were necessary, but I had never seen backups that lead to any serious issues.  So a beautiful flyover was added, that is fun to drive on, but probably saved about 2 minutes of travel time.  Is that really necessary?
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Stephane Dumas

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Re: I-39/I-90 study in southern Wisconsin
« Reply #45 on: September 27, 2012, 04:20:24 PM »


Wait, they are adding C-D roads, yet still converting the parclos at WI 26 and US 14 to plain diamonds? :banghead:  If WisDOT really wants to use signals, they should pony up for some SPUIs; at least then they could sell some of the extra ROW near the interchanges.

What about the possibility to use some "diverging diamond interchanges"?
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JREwing78

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Re: I-39/I-90 study in southern Wisconsin
« Reply #46 on: September 28, 2012, 05:06:17 AM »


Wait, they are adding C-D roads, yet still converting the parclos at WI 26 and US 14 to plain diamonds? :banghead:  If WisDOT really wants to use signals, they should pony up for some SPUIs; at least then they could sell some of the extra ROW near the interchanges.

I agree, as they sit now, plain diamonds in these locations would be a horrible mistake. Anyone who commutes southbound on I-39/90 into Janesville knows how heavily the SBD I-39/90 to SBD WI-26 movement is used.

I suspect they don't know the final configuration they wish to use there, and those are just placeholders. I missed my opportunity to attend the PIM to comment on it, but may well submit written comments to express the need for more capable interchanges there.
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triplemultiplex

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Re: I-39/I-90 study in southern Wisconsin
« Reply #47 on: September 28, 2012, 09:06:01 PM »

For example, the free flow interchange between US-51 NB and WI-29 WB on the north side of Wausau.  I have driven through that interchange 100 times, and yes improvements to US-51 and the interchange were necessary, but I had never seen backups that lead to any serious issues.  So a beautiful flyover was added, that is fun to drive on, but probably saved about 2 minutes of travel time.  Is that really necessary?

In that situation I think WisDOT was very justified in separating local traffic from regional traffic with the new interchange.  It also allowed them to bump up the speed limit through Wausau on US 51.  By the time that project started, I would experience regular slowdowns on 51 SB at the old Stewart Ave entrance.  For WI 29 traffic, you also had vehicles going from 70 mph down to 0 and then back up to 70; a tremendous waste of fuel for that amount of traffic.

That being said, I guess I'm okay with WI 26 not having "system" interchanges at its interstate connections for now.  The traffic just isn't there yet.  And the regional significance of WI 26 is not equivalent to WI 29.  From a regional perspective, the 29 west interchange facilitates movement between two major population/commerce centers; the Fox Valley and the Twin Cities.  WI 26 and its Janesville interchange serve more as a short cut between the Fox Valley and disparate points south of Chicagoland and while it's now faster than US 151, it is still kind of redundant/complimentary.

What I'd like to see is the state to acquire most of the land they think they might need for a system interchange at Janesville and then continue to rent out the existing structures to commercial, etc tenants until such an upgrade is really needed.  We spend less on land and it's less of a problem to displace occupants in the future.

I tend to think Wisconsin was playing catchup when building rural expressways like WI 29 or US 10, but with WI 26 they've gotten out ahead of things.
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WarrenWallace

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Re: I-39/I-90 study in southern Wisconsin
« Reply #48 on: October 01, 2012, 07:49:46 AM »

And here is the information from the north section meeting.

http://www.dot.state.wi.us/projects/swregion/i3990/north/public.htm
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Re: I-39/I-90 study in southern Wisconsin
« Reply #49 on: October 11, 2012, 04:02:01 PM »


Wait, they are adding C-D roads, yet still converting the parclos at WI 26 and US 14 to plain diamonds? :banghead:  If WisDOT really wants to use signals, they should pony up for some SPUIs; at least then they could sell some of the extra ROW near the interchanges.

What about the possibility to use some "diverging diamond interchanges"?
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/projects/swregion/i3990/north/docs/ss-pim2012sept24.pdf
a DDI is one of the alternatives for the county N interchange in the north segment of the project.
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