Topic: US-30 through Portland (Read 5299 times)

xonhulu · « **Reply #25 on:** October 02, 2011, 11:08:15 PM »

Quote from: Bickendan on October 02, 2011, 08:49:27 PM

Missing spur route from the list: OR 18 Spur, McMinnville. It's unsigned.

Forgot about that one, as the Highway Cross-Reference document lists it as "OR 18," instead of "OR 18S."

I just noticed on that same document that many of the spurs now seem to have new hidden hwy numbers in the 480s and 490s:

- the McMinnville Spur is Hwy #483;

- the Baker-Copperfield Spur (unsigned OR 86S) is listed twice, as Hwy #12 and as Hwy #481;

- the Fort Steven Spur (the above-pictured OR 104S) is listed as Hwy #485;

- the Homedale Spur (OR 201) is Hwy #490;

- the Payette Spur (OR 52) is Hwy #492;

- the Gold Hill Spur (OR 99?) is Hwy #486;

- the Chiloquin Spur (unsigned OR 422S) has Hwy #488;

- and the Parma Spur (unsigned OR 452) is Hwy #489.

They also list:

- the Ontario Spur (US 30 and BUS US 30) as Hwy #493;

- the Weiser Spur (SPUR US 95) as Hwy #491;

- the "Redmond Spur" (BUS US 97) as Hwy #480;

- and the "Esplanade Spur" (also BUS US 97, I assume in K Falls) as Hwy #484.

This is all news to me; when were these designations changed?

Bickendan · « **Reply #26 on:** October 03, 2011, 04:08:04 PM »

Time to email ODOT, I think, and see if I have a lot of work to do for the Clinched Highways site.

xonhulu · « **Reply #27 on:** October 03, 2011, 07:32:48 PM »

Let us know what you find out.

sp_redelectric · « **Reply #28 on:** October 06, 2011, 01:59:22 AM »

Quote from: xonhulu on October 02, 2011, 11:08:15 PM

the McMinnville Spur is Hwy #483

I wonder why they didn't use Highway 159, OR re-use the Highway 156 designation (since Highways 156 and 39Y both ended at a common location - the intersection of Johnson Street and 3rd Street.)

xonhulu · « **Reply #29 on:** October 06, 2011, 08:40:35 PM »

Quote from: sp_redelectric on October 06, 2011, 01:59:22 AM

I wonder why they didn't use Highway 159, OR re-use the Highway 156 designation (since Highways 156 and 39Y both ended at a common location - the intersection of Johnson Street and 3rd Street.)

I wondered that on all of them, why they gave them numbers in the 480's and 490's. I don't think a single county in Oregon is currently using up all its numbers.

But ODOT's been forgetful of their Highway Numbering Scheme lately, giving the Historic Columbia River Highway #100 (which would be a Clatsop County number using the rules of the original pattern), and combining the two highways making up OR 138 east of Roseburg, the former North Umpqua Hwy #73 and East Diamond Lake Hwy #425, into North Umpqua Hwy #138, using what should be a Tillamook County number. So I guess we shouldn't be too surprised about these new numbers.

sp_redelectric · « **Reply #30 on:** October 24, 2011, 01:36:06 AM »

Quote from: xonhulu on October 06, 2011, 08:40:35 PM

the two highways making up OR 138 east of Roseburg, the former North Umpqua Hwy #73 and East Diamond Lake Hwy #425, into North Umpqua Hwy #138

Or better yet, just scrap the dual numbering system!

Some of ODOT's "highways" make almost no sense - in Forest Grove, Tualatin Valley Highway 29 extends east along Route 8 and south along Route 47. But 47 continues north as the Nehalem Highway to U.S. 26 and then multiplexes with 26 west to Manning. Why not just make 47 from 26 south to 99W a single highway? And 8 west of Forest Grove is the county maintained Gales Creek Road yet carries a state highway number.

Or, the Columbia River Highway 2 leaving I-84 at Irrigon and continuing on U.S. 730, while I-84 gets a "new highway" as the Oregon Trail Highway (but to maintain exit number continuity, its mileposts do not start over).

xonhulu · « **Reply #31 on:** January 09, 2012, 09:38:15 PM »

Earlier in this thread, I noted that US 30 BYPASS was not signed at its eastern end with I-84/US 30 in Wood Village. But I noticed yesterday that some new signage has been erected on the off-ramps of the Fairview Parkway (I-84's exit 14):

From eastbound 84:

And from westbound:

Mind you, these aren't on I-84 itself; they're on the off-ramps, so you have exit the freeway before you even get to them. There is still no signage mentioning BYP 30 on the I-84 mainline.

However, this interchange is not actually the eastern end of BYP 30. If you take this exit and go north one block to Sandy Blvd, the signage there indicates BYP 30 continues further east on Sandy:

BYP 30 should actually end at the next exit further east, at NE 238th Ave in Wood Village (exit 16). However, there is absolutely no indication on I-84 that BYP 30 begins here, and I don't think there are any BYP 30 shields posted east of the one above; the first confirming assembly is west of here. This is likely because this whole part of the Northeast Portland Hwy has been relinquished to local jurisdictions.

This hasn't always been the case. IIRC, BYP 30 used to begin/end at a half-interchange between exits 14 and 16, and I know then there was signage on the freeway for BYP 30. However, this interchange was removed when I-84 was widened to 6-lanes in the '90's.

sp_redelectric · « **Reply #32 on:** January 11, 2012, 01:33:39 AM »

According to the 2010 TVT, ODOT jursidiction ends at MP 14.76, less than 1/4 mile east of 162nd Avenue. A quick look at Google Earth shows some fairly new Multnomah County spec signs installed along the road which would collaborate that.

That would also correspond with the city boundary between Portland and Gresham. Gresham seems to be very aggressive about taking jurisdiction of state highways within its limits, as U.S. 26 (Powell Boulevard) has also been turned over to city jurisdiction.

Portland seems to be hit and miss - it's taken over Beaverton-Hillsdale Highway, Naito Parkway and Harbor Drive, Interstate Avenue, M.L.K. Boulevard and Sandy Boulevard -- but Barbur Boulevard, U.S. 30 Bypass (Lombard/N.E. Portland Highway), Powell Boulevard, and most notably 82nd Avenue remain under state jurisdiction. Portland wants to take over Macadam (for the Lake Oswego streetcar project) but West Linn is balking stating it doesn't have the money to maintain its 3.5 mile stretch of the road.

Bickendan · « **Reply #33 on:** January 12, 2012, 08:09:51 PM »

Lake Oswego claiming not to have the money, haha.

It may be true, but it's funny nonetheless.

sp_redelectric · « **Reply #34 on:** January 13, 2012, 12:05:59 AM »

More so West Linn than Lake Oswego...West Linn's residents may have a lot of money, but not the city. (That's why Lake Oswego has a municipal golf course and West Linn doesn't.)

Bickendan · « **Reply #35 on:** January 14, 2012, 02:12:24 AM »

Whoops, you're right. Misread that.

And I 'agree' with West Linn, not for maintenance or money issues, but if Portland grabs Macadam, and West Linn takes Willamette Dr from ODOT... that leaves a small section of OR 43 along State St in Lake Oswego... and a probable complete decommission of the route. I don't care for that, even if it is a shorter route.

Tarkus · « **Reply #36 on:** January 14, 2012, 04:45:17 PM »

Not necessarily. OR-210 is almost entirely under Washington County control, and has not been decommissioned (though it is not particularly well-signed in many spots). The same is true with OR-8 through Forest Grove, from OR-47 to OR-6, which is under city and county control, OR-10 within Portland City Limits. I think ODOT and all the local jurisdictions would really have to concede that the OR-43 designation is very beneficial from a navigation standpoint--much more so than a bunch of road names that, while somewhat iconic (Macadam certainly is), change a bunch over the short length of the route.

xonhulu · « **Reply #37 on:** January 14, 2012, 09:08:36 PM »

I agree, history says the OR 43 designation wouldn't necessarily be retired. However, I've noticed that sometimes the signage for Oregon state routes on locally-maintained roads can become pretty spotty, or in some cases basically non-existent. As I said above, BYP 30's eastern end falls into the latter category.

sp_redelectric · « **Reply #38 on:** January 17, 2012, 12:14:36 AM »

However U.S. 30 Business was promptly decommissioned, and I wonder if ODOT is trying to decommission 99E in North Portland (the 99E shield has been removed from at least one sign on I-5...or maybe it fell off - but it hasn't been replaced in a couple months either.)

Some of the newer signage on Naito Parkway omits Oregon 10 (but adds back in 99W which had been decommissioned back in the 1980s, and recommissioned...and then decommissioned...?)

xonhulu · « **Reply #39 on:** January 17, 2012, 01:19:35 AM »

I haven't seen any official attempt to decommission 99E, and I try not to read into things like that missing signage, but one never knows: it might mean something.

Yes, BUS 30 disappeared in a relative hurry; Sandy Blvd was relinquished from state maintenance in (I believe) 2003, BUS 30 was removed about 4 years later. But that was brought up to the OTC and AASHTO first, and I haven't seen 99E show up on OTC's agenda yet.

I have no idea what's going on with Naito Pkwy; it may carry anywhere from 4 routes to none, depending on what source or signs you happen to read. I believe it's officially only OR 10, as I think US 26 now follows I-405 and the streets connecting it to the Ross Island Bridge, we think OR 99W officially ends where it first junctions with I-5 in Tigard, and I don't think OR 43 ever was meant to be on Naito despite a couple signs hinting at it. I have a feeling no one in ODOT is exactly sure what routes should be down there, judging from the mess in the signage.

sp_redelectric · « **Reply #40 on:** January 24, 2012, 12:27:03 AM »

Quote from: xonhulu on January 17, 2012, 01:19:35 AM

I believe it's officially only OR 10...we think OR 99W officially ends where it first junctions with I-5 in Tigard

I wish someone would straighten that all out. I don't really see any value in the Oregon 10 designation east of Beaverton anyways (even on the state-maintained segment of Beaverton-Hillsdale Highway.)

Oregon 99W starting at I-5 MP 294 makes sense. I guess when TriMet crams MAX down Barbur Boulevard is when we'll see everything change. And 99W in Tigard will be nothing less than a disaster.

xonhulu · « **Reply #41 on:** January 24, 2012, 01:27:58 AM »

Quote from: sp_redelectric on January 24, 2012, 12:27:03 AM

I wish someone would straighten that all out. I don't really see any value in the Oregon 10 designation east of Beaverton anyways (even on the state-maintained segment of Beaverton-Hillsdale Highway.)

Oregon 99W starting at I-5 MP 294 makes sense. I guess when TriMet crams MAX down Barbur Boulevard is when we'll see everything change. And 99W in Tigard will be nothing less than a disaster.

My personal opinion: OR 99W should be the route on Barbur and Naito, just for historical reasons. It can vaguely end either at its junction with US 26 or somewhere downtown. And OR 10 should end on OR 99W where Beaverton-Hillsdale junctions with Barbur.

Bickendan · « **Reply #42 on:** January 25, 2012, 04:50:02 PM »

Officially, OR 99W terminates at I-5(294).
OR 10 terminates at US 26.
US 26 no longer runs on SW Market/Clay or on Naito, but on I-405, Broadway/5th/Sheridan, 3rd, Arthur, Kelly/ramp to the Ross Island.

Ideally, OR 99W should be signed on Denver, Interstate, Steel Bridge, [Glisan, 3rd, Everett], Naito and Barbur, with no regard as who maintains the roadway. OR 10 should terminate at Barbur. US 26 is fine where it is; a BUS US 26 on Market/Clay and Naito should be signed.

xonhulu · « **Reply #43 on:** February 04, 2012, 02:15:24 PM »

Quote from: Bickendan on January 25, 2012, 04:50:02 PM

Ideally, OR 99W should be signed on Denver, Interstate, Steel Bridge, [Glisan, 3rd, Everett], Naito and Barbur, with no regard as who maintains the roadway. OR 10 should terminate at Barbur. US 26 is fine where it is; a BUS US 26 on Market/Clay and Naito should be signed.

I agree with every single one of your suggestions.

The last time I was in downtown Portland, I noticed there's a new shield assembly on southbound Naito at Clay reading "TO US 26." I wish I could've snapped a picture, but I couldn't find a nearby parking space; I'll have to try again sometime. I think I saw some other new signage down there directing traffic to I-5 and US 26 somewhere on Market, but I only got a glimpse.

This old US 26 shield a couple blocks up Clay (between 2nd and 3rd, I think) is still in place, a relic of when the Clay/Market couplet still actually carried US 26:

This is an older photo; there's now a pole or conduit right in front of the shield partially obscuring it.

I'm not sure if this next sign is still around, but it was on southbound 13th at Market:

Apparently, this is my 1000th post on the forum, so I can't wait to see something magical happen when I click "Post!"

nexus73 · « **Reply #44 on:** February 04, 2012, 10:24:00 PM »

Chris, I hope some day you have the time to post a whole series of photos showing us how US 26 gets from the Sunset Highway to downtown PDX and then crosses the Willamette. It would be nice to know where the signage gaps, if any, are.

Congrats on the 1000th post!

Rick

Bickendan · « **Reply #45 on:** February 04, 2012, 10:42:47 PM »

I'll take care of it as soon as I can.

xonhulu · « **Reply #46 on:** February 04, 2012, 11:10:03 PM »

I'm glad Bickendan volunteered, because I couldn't have come through -- I don't have photo coverage along 26's new official routing. I suppose you could follow 26 via Street View and see the routing, but I think their photos are a bit dated. For example, the new "TO 26" sign I mentioned above has gone up since Google went through. I think I'm going to hike in the Gorge tomorrow, so I might swing downtown on the way up and get some more pix of 26 signage down there.

As I said, I saw some signs directing "TO 26" and "TO I-5" on some downtown streets off the old route (I can't remember the exact locations) and I think the signs are pretty new; I don't remember them being there before, at any rate. It's nice to see the city improving navigation downtown.

And thanks for the congrats, Rick. Post #1000 elevated me from "State Highway" to "Expressway!" Mom and Dad will be so proud . . . .

xonhulu · « **Reply #47 on:** February 06, 2012, 10:36:58 PM »

Here's that new signage at Clay from southbound Naito:

Not much else to report. I do find it intriguing how the signage at the north end of Macadam still refers to northbound OR 43 even though it effectively ends there:

All mention of OR 43 is gone by the next set of signs, visible in the background of the first photo:

And further on:

So I'm not really sure why they felt the need to mention OR 43 on the first sign in this sequence, as that's the last mention of the route -- as it should be, since OR 43 ends there.

Steve · « **Reply #48 on:** February 06, 2012, 10:50:52 PM »

Quote from: xonhulu on February 06, 2012, 10:36:58 PM

You didn't say this thread was US 43 through Portland! (If you didn't see it already)

nexus73 · « **Reply #49 on:** February 06, 2012, 10:59:18 PM »

Good catch on that one Steve! I was just going to post up on the "US 43" sign too.

Rick

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Author Topic: US-30 through Portland (Read 5299 times)