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[froggie]

The Governor's office is announcing that Virginia has received preliminary approval from FHWA to put tolls on I-95 under the Interstate Reconstruction and Rehabilitation Pilot Program.  As expected, the state requested and received permission to drop its earlier plan to toll I-81, and will now instead toll I-95.

Since this is a conversion of an existing slot, there's still one slot left for North Carolina to try with I-95, or for Pennsylvania to try again with I-80.

[WillWeaverRVA]

It's going to be remarkably easy to shunpike on I-95 unless the governor plans to demolish some interchanges to enforce the tolls... (of course, seeing as the governor completely ignored the opposition to tolling I-95, I doubt he really gives a crap)

[Stephane Dumas]

But what if the toll was for some ETL (Express toll lanes) system or a HOT system?

[NE2]

But what if the toll was for some ETL (Express toll lanes) system or a HOT system?

That's not what this program is.

[hbelkins]

What section do they plan to toll? Richmond-to-DC, which probably has the highest percentage of in-state drivers, or NC-to-Petersburg, which probably has more out-of-state traffic?

[WillWeaverRVA]

What section do they plan to toll? Richmond-to-DC, which probably has the highest percentage of in-state drivers, or NC-to-Petersburg, which probably has more out-of-state traffic?

I think the original plan involved tolling I-95 near the NC/VA border due to it having a higher percentage of truck traffic than other parts of I-95. Of course, they could also put tolls back on the Richmond-Petersburg Turnpike (which would likely result in people from Richmond declaring war on VDOT)...

[Mapmikey]

Virginia's Secretary of Transportation is quoted in a WTOP article http://www.wtop.com/?nid=41&sid=2552332 saying the tolled portion would be from Fredericksburg southward.

With only a $2 total toll envisioned, that probably just means a toll booth at each end.  About the best they could do is make shunpiking aggravating by putting the southern booth for traffic in either direction between Exit 8 and Exit 11 (forces shunpikers to drive through Emporia and S. Emporia and their 25 mph speed limits).

On the Fredericksburg end about the best you could do is between exits 126 and 130.  Any further south and it is extremely easy to use US 1 or VA 2 as workarounds....

Mapmikey

[hbelkins]

Your average New Englander is not going to go to great lengths to "shunpike" on their way to Florida. For trucks, I would advocate banning them from the "shunpike" routes or putting some physical barrier up to prevent the use of alternate routes.

[Mapmikey]

Through trucks are already prohibited through Emporia on both US 58 Business and US 301.

Restricting trucks on the Fredericksburg end would be harder IMO.

I would think most long-trip passers through probably would suck it up and pay the toll.  On the other hand, the Wash Post regularly runs articles on how to efficiently avoid the I-95 toll booth in Delaware, so there must be a shunpike demand out there...

Apparently at least one trucking group is already protesting and wants the gas tax raised instead...

[deathtopumpkins]

Apparently at least one trucking group is already protesting and wants the gas tax raised instead...

Yeah, because that wouldn't affect them at all. 

[1995hoo]

....

On the Fredericksburg end about the best you could do is between exits 126 and 130.  Any further south and it is extremely easy to use US 1 or VA 2 as workarounds....

It's still pretty easy to use US-1 as a bypass of the part between Exits 126 and 130, although certainly there are a lot of lights on US-1 around there. (Technically I suppose it's US-1 Alternate, as the official US-1 goes through downtown Fredericksburg, but I think most people just regard the alternate as the main US-1 route.) I wonder if putting it between 130 and 133 would make more sense, assuming it could be fit into that stretch what with the southbound rest area and the crossing of the Rappahannock. While you could still use US-1 to bypass the toll, it would be a hassle because the light at the corner of US-17 and US-1 in Falmouth is a pain in the arse, a really long light. I'd probably pay the toll to avoid that stupid light.

[froggie]

(Technically I suppose it's US-1 Alternate, as the official US-1 goes through downtown Fredericksburg, but I think most people just regard the alternate as the main US-1 route.)

Hasn't been that way in 40 years.  CTB moved mainline US 1 onto its existing route (the old ALT route) and made the Business Route downtown in 1971.

I wonder if putting it between 130 and 133 would make more sense, assuming it could be fit into that stretch what with the southbound rest area and the crossing of the Rappahannock.

It's a tight fit and would require additional right-of-way between the Cowan Blvd and Fall Hill Ave overpasses, but it's doable.  However, rest area traffic would have to use the "cash lanes".

If the goal is to minimize the potential for shunpiking, then here's a better idea:  considering that the plans for the HO/T lanes will take up the median down to Massaponax (south of Exit 126), keep the mainline toll plaza between 126 and 130 where there's a wider ROW available, build C/D roads at the interchanges at VA 3 and US 17 (one already exists northbound at 17), and toll the ramps to/from the north at VA 3, US 17, and Centerport Pkwy.  This would "ensure" that any shunpikes would have a lengthy (about 15 miles) trip through the stoplights on US 1.

[1995hoo]

Didn't know that about the alternate thing because the sign just south of the bridge over the river on the southbound side still says Alternate—at least, as of September 3 it did.

[Mapmikey]

That US 1 ALT BGS assembly is one of the oldest remaining in Virginia...keep waiting for it to be replaced but it is still there.  And technically all 4 route designations on it are incorrect.  This has been the only US 1 ALT posting up back to at least 1995.  There are also erroneous US 17 Bypass signs on US 1 in the VA 3 vicinity.

While the last couple ideas cited would make shunpiking quite difficult, they don't meet the criteria of being south of Fredericksburg.  My hunch is that they don't want to snag Northern Va commuters with either the toll or potentially the traffic delays caused by a toll booth.  Or another possibility is that they don't want to use the proceeds to work on 95 north of Fredericksburg which is under study for HOT/HOV expansion.

[agentsteel53]

That US 1 ALT BGS assembly is one of the oldest remaining in Virginia...

got a photo? 

[Steve]

That US 1 ALT BGS assembly is one of the oldest remaining in Virginia...

got a photo? 

Not so great, but it's there: www.alpsroads.net/roads/va/us_1/s1b.jpg (cut and paste link, don't click through)

[WillWeaverRVA]

That US 1 ALT BGS assembly is one of the oldest remaining in Virginia...

got a photo?  

From 2008, but it'll do:



I have a newer and better photo of this, but I need to find it and upload it.

[agentsteel53]

excellent! looks very 1960s

[1995hoo]

Yup, that's the same one that's still there.

[Mapmikey]

Neither of the pictures show it well but those letters are not painted...they are individual tile(?) letters and were apparently what Virginia used as its "button copy" decades ago and were common through the Commonwealth.

I go to that gas station all the time...I should take a close-up picture from right underneath...

[agentsteel53]

Neither of the pictures show it well but those letters are not painted...they are individual tile(?) letters and were apparently what Virginia used as its "button copy" decades ago and were common through the Commonwealth.

I go to that gas station all the time...I should take a close-up picture from right underneath...

as far as I know, VA never used button copy.  glass cateyes, yes, back in the day, but as far as I know, no Stimsonite - neither in button-copy form, nor in signs with the holes drilled out from the primary sign plane.

I believe the letter elements are simply extruded aluminum (similar to button copy letters) but instead of holes being drilled, they are covered in Scotchlite.  I have a photo of such a sample letter somewhere.  Kansas used them a lot as well.  they afford the flexibility of demountable signage when it comes time to reuse and recycle... while, they are less expensive than button copy because sheeting is cheaper than drilling holes and stuffing in discrete reflectors.  that said, it isn't as durable as button copy.

[Mapmikey]

I saw an article in the Fredericksburg paper today that says clearly that tolls cannot be charged on 95 north of Exit 126 due to the HOT lane agreements already in place...

There was true button copy signage on the Powhite Pkwy between the James River and VA 146 that was replaced in the last couple years.  Someone in another discussion surmised that VDOT wasn't the orignator of these BGS assemblies

[WillWeaverRVA]

Neither of the pictures show it well but those letters are not painted...they are individual tile(?) letters and were apparently what Virginia used as its "button copy" decades ago and were common through the Commonwealth.

I go to that gas station all the time...I should take a close-up picture from right underneath...

This photo does.

[Sykotyk]

Apparently at least one trucking group is already protesting and wants the gas tax raised instead...

Yeah, because that wouldn't affect them at all. 

Actually, that was probably just ignorance on the part of the person reporting 'fuel tax' to 'gas tax' fogetting that trucks run on diesel instead of gas.