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Author Topic: Road-related Illustrations  (Read 371940 times)

J N Winkler

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Re: Road-related Illustrations
« Reply #950 on: June 10, 2010, 10:51:53 AM »

I am going to stick my neck out here a little and say that Caltrans' freeway guide signing is actually pretty close to normal.  The odd layout of exit tabs, etc. is mostly a result of the requirement to conform to standard sign panel heights, which themselves result from Caltrans' continuing use of technologies which were either abandoned or never used in other states--formed panel signs with RSPFs, laminated panels, etc.  (PennDOT also uses laminated panels and this is why some PennDOT signs have "strip-style" exit tabs similar to those used in California.)  It gets downright bizarre on the conventional roads:  my personal cases in point are the G21, G22, and G77 families of signs.  I am pretty sure I have never seen a G21 equivalent in any other state, though I think Washington state uses a derivative of G77.  While a non-Caltrans G22 is not implausible, I have personally never seen one in the wild.

There are also all sorts of arcane rules that can persist on new signs because Caltrans tends to replace in kind.  One example I have cited before is the restriction on "TO" tabs.  This has not existed since 2004 when Caltrans adopted the federal MUTCD with a supplement, but prior to that time, "TO" could be used with a route marker only to indicate the way to a freeway.  In the case of G77 variants showing just the shield with arrows and cardinal direction words, there used to be a rule to the effect that the shield had to be centered on a horizontal ruled line if the conventional road leading to the freeway had a median divider.  If it was undivided, the ruled line was omitted, as shown on the present G77-4 drawing.  Caltrans engineers still put in the horizontal ruled line but because a spec for it no longer exists, those signs are called out on plans as "G77(SPECIAL)."
« Last Edit: June 10, 2010, 11:20:49 AM by J N Winkler »
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TheStranger

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Re: Road-related Illustrations
« Reply #951 on: June 11, 2010, 08:20:38 AM »

If San Francisco had never had its freeway revolts, here's some examples of what signage would've looked like (based on today's CalTrans standards) -















I've made a few more in that vein and will post them later...
« Last Edit: June 11, 2010, 08:51:07 AM by TheStranger »
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Chris Sampang

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Re: Road-related Illustrations
« Reply #952 on: June 11, 2010, 10:39:26 AM »

those are awesome!  Is Southern Crossing a city?  Also, where is Kezar Stadium, and what would've been the routing for 87?
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froggie

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Re: Road-related Illustrations
« Reply #953 on: June 11, 2010, 11:23:02 AM »

Southern Crossing probably refers to a then-proposed additional crossing of the Bay, south of the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge.  The late-40s-into-the-50s proposal had the crossing connecting to I-280 near Cesar Chavez St, and connecting somehow into Alameda.  More recent renditions had the crossing further south.
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Re: Road-related Illustrations
« Reply #954 on: June 11, 2010, 11:43:09 AM »

...Also, where is Kezar Stadium, and what would've been the routing for 87?

I'm assuming the gantry containing the Kazar Stadium sign is this one?

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Re: Road-related Illustrations
« Reply #955 on: June 11, 2010, 01:38:15 PM »

those are awesome!  Is Southern Crossing a city?
Froggie's answer is spot-on: it's the long-proposed bridge to fill the gap between I-80 and Route 92.  I don't know what route number it would have been, except that I have always suspected that the Army Street proposal would have made a great extension to what is now today's I-980.

Quote from: agentsteel53

 Also, where is Kezar Stadium, and what would've been the routing for 87?

Kezar Stadium is located at the southeast corner of Golden Gate Park - at the time the freeway system was proposed in the 1940s and 1950s, this was the home of the San Francisco 49ers.  (They moved to Candlestick in 1971, after losing the NFC Championship to Dallas there - but had the system been constructed at full, the Route 1/I-280 freeway and the I-80 extension would have met up about 1/2 mile from the stadium grounds.)

Google Maps with the overhead view:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Kezar+Stadium&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=37.052328,56.513672&ie=UTF8&hq=Kezar+Stadium&hnear=&ll=37.766746,-122.454944&spn=0.004521,0.006899&t=h&z=17

Here's a photo of Kezar in its pro football days (I've been there once for a high school football game), in a Niners vs. Colts matchup:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8595083@N08/2636447151/ 
The stadium was downsized in 1988 and is now mostly used for youth/high school athletics, and has much fewer seats than in its heyday.

As for Route 87, the 1967 Thomas Guide I put up on a now-defunct site, but reposted at Cahighways.org (I forgot my source on that map - I want to say it was David Gwynn of Groceteria.com, but I could be wrong) shows some of the proposal:




http://www.cahighways.org/081-088.html#087

As noted on Faigin's site, Route 87 north of the present terminus at US 101 in San Jose would have continued to Route 237 in Alviso (still part of the definition of the route), then northward as a San Francisco Bay causeway of some sort all the way to Brisbane (where it would have met with the unbuilt connector Route 230 - a road that would have likely resembled Route 262 in length), then into Hunters Point, where it would meet up with the Southern Freeway at today's Army (Cesar Chavez) Street exit.

Current 280 from Army Street north to where it would have ended at 480/80 was proposed as part of 87, though I do not think it was ever signed as such.  (Current 280 between Army Street and San Jose Avenue was part of Route 82, after the segment between the Bayshore Freeway and San Jose Avenue was built as US 101 pre-1964 - I think the Army to 101 segment was built as Route 82.  Current 280 between Route 1 and Route 82 was legislatively part of Route 1 until 1968, even though 1 continued north up the proposed 280 corridor then as it does now.)

Had everything been built to plan...we would have ended up with three north-south freeway corridors between San Jose and the Golden Gate Bridge: 280 connecting the Sunset District and Golden Gate Park with downtown San Jose, 480/87 connecting Fisherman's Wharf and the rest of downtown San Francisco with downtown San Jose, and 101 managing to not quite be a bypass or a downtown route!

Quote from: Truvelo
I'm assuming the gantry containing the Kazar Stadium sign is this one?

Correct, the current spot where 101 heads north onto Van Ness/Mission.  80 officially ran on this part of the Central Freeway until 1968 (when the Western/Panhandle Freeway proposal was transferred to then-state route 241, while 80 was cut back to the current Bayshore/Central/James Lick Skyway split), but I have never seen any photos of the Central Freeway prior to the late 1970s, so I don't know if that was ever signed.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2010, 01:46:44 PM by TheStranger »
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Chris Sampang

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Re: Road-related Illustrations
« Reply #956 on: June 11, 2010, 03:15:30 PM »


Froggie's answer is spot-on: it's the long-proposed bridge to fill the gap between I-80 and Route 92.  I don't know what route number it would have been, except that I have always suspected that the Army Street proposal would have made a great extension to what is now today's I-980.

as opposed to 380/238?  The crossing would be north of that?

Quote
Kezar Stadium is located at the southeast corner of Golden Gate Park

wow.  there's an entirestadium in there???  Ya know, for a city so opposed to the trappings of modern materialist culture, they sure do hide quite a few examples of it strategically.  Hell, you'll next tell me there's a Walmart in San Francisco.

Quote
The stadium was downsized in 1988 and is now mostly used for youth/high school athletics, and has much fewer seats than in its heyday.

but still, that's a large grass rectangle the size of a football field!

Quote
Had everything been built to plan...we would have ended up with three north-south freeway corridors between San Jose and the Golden Gate Bridge: 280 connecting the Sunset District and Golden Gate Park with downtown San Jose, 480/87 connecting Fisherman's Wharf and the rest of downtown San Francisco with downtown San Jose, and 101 managing to not quite be a bypass or a downtown route!

Why not extend the 480 designation all the way down 87?  A glut of interstate shields is bad, but having a single freeway switch numbers randomly isn't the solution.

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TheStranger

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Re: Road-related Illustrations
« Reply #957 on: June 11, 2010, 03:20:39 PM »


Froggie's answer is spot-on: it's the long-proposed bridge to fill the gap between I-80 and Route 92.  I don't know what route number it would have been, except that I have always suspected that the Army Street proposal would have made a great extension to what is now today's I-980.

as opposed to 380/238?  The crossing would be north of that?

Correct.  380/238 was proposed in the late 90s/early 2000s, while the Army Street to Alameda connection was planned in the 1950s/1960s (and is actually about 1/3rd the length of the 380 corridor across the Bay).

Quote from: agentsteel53

Quote
Kezar Stadium is located at the southeast corner of Golden Gate Park

wow.  there's an entirestadium in there???  Ya know, for a city so opposed to the trappings of modern materialist culture, they sure do hide quite a few examples of it strategically.  Hell, you'll next tell me there's a Walmart in San Francisco.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kezar_Stadium

Built in 1922, probably when large odes to sports were actually still appreciated.  (Built with private funds though, like Pac Bell Park.)



Quote from: agentsteel53
Quote
Had everything been built to plan...we would have ended up with three north-south freeway corridors between San Jose and the Golden Gate Bridge: 280 connecting the Sunset District and Golden Gate Park with downtown San Jose, 480/87 connecting Fisherman's Wharf and the rest of downtown San Francisco with downtown San Jose, and 101 managing to not quite be a bypass or a downtown route!

Why not extend the 480 designation all the way down 87?  A glut of interstate shields is bad, but having a single freeway switch numbers randomly isn't the solution.



I agree with you 100%; I'm not sure why it wasn't ever planned as only one number (at the very least, 480 would have reconnected with 280 in San Jose, had it followed 87 all the way down).

Maybe California didn't want this bayfront causeway to be forced up to Interstate standards?

I'll post some more of my San Francisco fantasy signs in a few minutes...I'll work on ones for Sacramento and the East Bay at some point as well.
 
« Last Edit: June 11, 2010, 05:32:06 PM by TheStranger »
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Chris Sampang

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Re: Road-related Illustrations
« Reply #958 on: June 11, 2010, 07:52:11 PM »

Here's the Alemany Maze, had nearby connecting freeways been completed and 1964-era designations retained:






« Last Edit: June 11, 2010, 09:20:00 PM by TheStranger »
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Chris Sampang

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Re: Road-related Illustrations
« Reply #959 on: June 12, 2010, 01:43:06 AM »

Those are ill, I'm jealous..... :ded:
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Re: Road-related Illustrations
« Reply #960 on: June 12, 2010, 01:51:51 AM »

BigMatt: Well, I have to offer much thanks again to myosh_tino for the basic templates I've used. :) 
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Chris Sampang

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Re: Road-related Illustrations
« Reply #961 on: June 12, 2010, 11:33:57 AM »

Some more SF hypotheticals:







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Chris Sampang

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Re: Road-related Illustrations
« Reply #962 on: June 12, 2010, 02:32:00 PM »

Here's two Akron hypotheticals. I-76 was at one time I-80S.




One more thing: How do you download the FHWA colors that are used on signs on Inkscape?
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Alex P. Dent

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Re: Road-related Illustrations
« Reply #963 on: June 12, 2010, 02:42:14 PM »

hmm, your shields look to be vertically compressed (bubble shields). 

here's the colors.  I have no idea how to download them; they're just standard RGB values.

first number is red, second green, third blue

Code: [Select]
247 209  23  MUTCD yellow
217 115   0  MUTCD orange (non-flourescent)
176  28  46  MUTCD red
  0  56 130  MUTCD blue
  0 107  84  MUTCD green
 97  51  20  MUTCD brown
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joseph1723

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Re: Road-related Illustrations
« Reply #964 on: June 13, 2010, 03:18:47 PM »

Here's my attempt at making a set of signs that are based on US standards rather than Ontario standards; The sign messages are based on real highways and exits in the Toronto area but show fictional ramp configurations.
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The Premier

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Re: Road-related Illustrations
« Reply #965 on: June 14, 2010, 08:39:05 PM »

This next one is based on the actual sign on I-76 WB before the Innerbelt, but I used a fictional Interstate and I also put in I-80S in place of I-76.


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Alex P. Dent

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Re: Road-related Illustrations
« Reply #966 on: June 14, 2010, 11:21:33 PM »

Several more from my SF project:






About to do several tonight (and in the next few days) of the city I currently reside in, California's capital of Sacramento...a combination of imagining what signage was like in the 70s (as I have seen only five or so photos from when I-80 ran through downtown) and what was proposed but never built (i.e. the Route 143 connector between Elk Grove and Foothill Farms that bypasses midtown and Arden).

And also correcting the bizarre way Route 99 is presently signed in the metro area.  :pan:
« Last Edit: June 14, 2010, 11:28:23 PM by TheStranger »
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Chris Sampang

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Re: Road-related Illustrations
« Reply #967 on: June 15, 2010, 04:56:06 AM »



The right sign should change the name from Candlestick Park to Monster Park.


The middle sign should change the name from Candlestick Park to Monster Park. The right sign should change the name from Pac Bell Park to AT&T Park.




The right sign should change the name from Pac Bell Park to AT&T Park.


The middle sign should change the name from Pac Bell Park to AT&T Park.


Very good works, The Stranger. Most of signages looks good and I provide a several corrections to you at above.
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TheStranger

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Re: Road-related Illustrations
« Reply #968 on: June 15, 2010, 04:59:00 AM »


Very good works, The Stranger. Most of signages looks good and I provide a several corrections to you at above.

Thanks.

The name choices are intentional here -

1. Candlestick Park has reverted to its original moniker as of two years ago, and will not be renamed again (per city ordinance or something)
2. Pac Bell Park is a better identity for that stadium IMO, so there. :p

---

A couple of my Sacramento hypotheticals to start off that project:


« Last Edit: June 15, 2010, 05:04:06 AM by TheStranger »
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Chris Sampang

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Re: Road-related Illustrations
« Reply #969 on: June 15, 2010, 05:09:22 AM »

How do y'all have so much dedication to make the signs? I always end up getting distracted :ded:.
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Re: Road-related Illustrations
« Reply #970 on: June 15, 2010, 06:49:53 AM »


Current Image


Hypothecial Image with CA-171 (Switzer Canyon Freeway to I-805/University Avenue). Those planned document killed off in 1994.

Those signages images are located at East of Downtown San Diego, California. Notice: add the arrow on the right sign. That ramp could have reconstructing with white-top freeway concrete (my best guess).
« Last Edit: June 15, 2010, 06:52:48 AM by SimMoonXP »
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J N Winkler

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Re: Road-related Illustrations
« Reply #971 on: June 15, 2010, 08:06:45 AM »

How do y'all have so much dedication to make the signs? I always end up getting distracted :ded:.

This may help:

http://lifehacker.com/

Fundamentally, however, you have to establish your goals and commit to pursuing them.  Lifehacker has lots of good advice for maintaining focus, but most of it is hard to apply without a clear idea of what you are working for.

In my experience, it helps considerably to program a fairly lengthy block of time in your schedule for a task which requires concentrated attention, like designing signs.  I suggest a minimum period of three hours.  During this time you should work in private, closing and locking the door if necessary, and making it clear to others in your immediate environment that you are not to be interrupted.  The idea is to give yourself a chance to build momentum until you reach the "zone" where you feel you are being creative and are not tempted by distractions like Facebook, Twitter, this board, the Web in general, your iPod/MPEG player (if you have one), or any of the numberless distractions which modern technology makes possible.  It also helps to automate some of the more tedious aspects of the design job, either by writing scripts or making up templates, so that those don't wind up providing you with incentives not to work.

We live in an increasingly interrupt-driven society and that is dumbing us down.  Many years ago I gave someone remedial tutoring in first-year physics so he could clear that requirement and graduate from college, and part of his problem was that the TV was playing (mostly old episodes of Quantum Leap and The A-Team) while he was trying to work.  As a result, most of his "studying" occurred during commercial breaks and by the time he had picked up the thread of what he was doing, the commercial break was over, and he was half-listening to the show again.  He did realize that he could accomplish quite a lot if he disconnected his TV and phone, but for much of the time his resolve to do that was lacking.

As you get older, you also have to decide not to engage in behaviors or activities which will later make it difficult for you to work.  For instance, I am now in Seville, and last night I was invited out for flamenco dancing.  Because it is so hot during the day in Seville (it sets temperature records for the entire European continent), we did not even leave for the dance club until after 10.30 PM:  it was a 20-minute walk each way.  I try to adhere to a sleeping schedule which gives me a minimum 7 hours of sleep each night (presently midnight to 8 AM), so as a result of having to budget 40 minutes for travel between my lodgings and the flamenco club, I saw just one performance and had just one drink (a shot of tequila, nursed slowly over a period of about 20 minutes).  I came back at about 12.30 AM and was in bed by 1 AM.  Others did not even return until 3 AM or later.  Because I got 7 hours of sleep and had just one drink, I am not hung over and have reasonable levels of energy and power to concentrate.

I like watching old TV show episodes as a way to unwind (The Pretender recently, Stargate SG-1 right now), and after an episode of binging several weeks ago (3-4 episodes per night for several consecutive nights and 5 episodes one night), I have dialed it all back to 1 episode per day.  When you look back over the recent past and think objectively about exactly how much you have accomplished, the true costs of these diversions become apparent.

If you want to know who is your worst enemy, you need to look in the mirror.  You have the greatest ability to bring yourself under control, and also the greatest need to do so.  This is true not just for you personally, but also for me and pretty much everyone else.
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Re: Road-related Illustrations
« Reply #972 on: June 15, 2010, 10:11:39 AM »

heh, I find myself taking a break (to check this board or whatnot) about once every half-hour even in my times of greatest concentration. 

the ability to take a break, and then get immediately back into what you are doing, is very helpful in an office environment, because then your breaks may not be scheduled by you.  "Hey, can you forward me your slides from this morning?" "Can you show me real fast how to tweak the configuration file to generate the output we're looking for?"  etc. 

on my best days, I can get about 14-15 hours of work done, on various projects.  For a weekday, this involves "actual work" (that I'm paid for) at least 8-9 hours, and on the weekend it's just doing sign illustrations, or ripping videos and editing stills, or uploading to the shield gallery, or working on photo blog entries, or restoring highway signs, or or or ... and usually every half-hour or so I switch tasks.  "Oh, time to go apply another coat of paint to the sign."

the key is to be able to settle down and devote 100% of one's attention to a task within seconds of deciding that it is to be worked on for the next however long period of time.  Let's face it, distractions are here to stay!
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Re: Road-related Illustrations
« Reply #973 on: June 15, 2010, 10:15:03 AM »

hmm, any reason you're using the surface-level style state route shield (with the word "CALIFORNIA" and the slightly different color green)?
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J N Winkler

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Re: Road-related Illustrations
« Reply #974 on: June 15, 2010, 11:19:16 AM »

the ability to take a break, and then get immediately back into what you are doing, is very helpful in an office environment, because then your breaks may not be scheduled by you.  "Hey, can you forward me your slides from this morning?" "Can you show me real fast how to tweak the configuration file to generate the output we're looking for?"  etc.

Interruptions of this kind are one reason office environments are not particularly good for intellectually demanding work.  Another is that it puts you at the beck and call of people who schedule their time in one-hour increments, whereas three hours is what you need to get deep into an intellectually demanding project.  This is one reason computer programmers, graphic designers, etc. often complain that meetings compromise their ability to make progress.

Quote
on my best days, I can get about 14-15 hours of work done, on various projects.  For a weekday, this involves "actual work" (that I'm paid for) at least 8-9 hours, and on the weekend it's just doing sign illustrations, or ripping videos and editing stills, or uploading to the shield gallery, or working on photo blog entries, or restoring highway signs, or or or ... and usually every half-hour or so I switch tasks.  "Oh, time to go apply another coat of paint to the sign."

There's nothing wrong with alternating between multiple projects when they are individually not that intellectually demanding--I do it too--but I can't get batch files written, tested, and debugged that way, and I can't write thesis chapters that way either.  I can do it to some extent when designing signs but only because I have automated some functions.  Putting together a simple guide sign is easy and I can do it when my attention is fragmented, but the same is not true of the California state route marker.

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Let's face it, distractions are here to stay!

Are they?  They are amenable to control if you so decide.  Email client--doesn't need to be active.  Web browser--doesn't need to be active.  Facebook--doesn't need to be read or posted to (I usually check just once a day, and rely on email if anyone follows up on my comments).  Twitter--don't have an account, don't want one, what's the point?  (How does it make me money or contribute to my mental or moral improvement?)  Cell phone--don't have one.  Landline telephone--I avoid giving a phone number when I can.  Failblog, Dark Roasted Bean, etc.--I can sort of see the point in terms of displacement activity, but I have no real need and usually don't look at them.  TV--I am rarely even near one, and have lived for too long in a country where TVs have to be licensed to have any interest in watching TV live or owning a TV (I follow my TV shows severely in arrears).  Co-workers--"Unless it's an emergency, could you please wait until three o'clock?" (or whenever your designated down time begins).

FWIW, I am reading and posting right now because I am going through a pile of proyectos de construcción from the Diputación de Córdoba I found lurking on a FTP server.  This is basically a clerical job.  If I were in the middle of something that required my intent concentration, I wouldn't really be breaking that to give something else my full attention.  I might get up to drink a glass of water, visit the bathroom, or stretch, but I wouldn't really "switch off" from what I was doing (I often clean up batch file syntax in my head, or figure out how to debug difficult scripts, when I am in the bathroom).
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"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini
 


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